View Full Version : The EU and Turkey, help me please
the leader
02-08-16, 16:07
Have i got this drastically wrong?
Turkey put a stop to the migrants coming across from Bodrum - i say Bodrum but that area in general is closest to Kos so....
Turkey put a stop to the migrant flow on the condition that the EU lifted visa requirements completely for Turkish passport holders, essentially allowing them into the free-access agreement despite not being in the EU. Turkey have not seen this condition met and are now threatening to allow the migrants to continue unchecked - in many cases sending them to their deaths at sea - unless this visa restriction is lifted.
So, the EU, in trying to stop thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants enter its borders, is giving open access to a country with 80 million people instead?
BREXIT - it makes more sense by the day. Jesus what a bunch of idiots.
CCFC CASUAL
02-08-16, 16:08
Wrong forum. You know the rules.
the leader
02-08-16, 16:16
fair one, i was remiss here.
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 16:34
Wrong forum. You know the rules.
Yes, how dare he want to discuss issues that will affect family and friends for generations to come, in a forum that gets more than two visitors a day :thumbup:
Crisps - I like Bovril flavour, how about you?
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 16:42
Just because you can visit a country without a visa doesn't mean you can move there. It just means instead of needing your passport and a piece of paper you just need your passport.
Lifting visa requirements is not open access for living at all.
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 16:45
Just because you can visit a country without a visa doesn't mean you can move there. It just means instead of needing your passport and a piece of paper you just need your passport.
Lifting visa requirements is not open access for living at all.
So you mean you can "go missing" with just a passport, instead of a passport and a piece of paper?
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 16:47
You could do that when there's visa restrictions so what difference would it make?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 16:54
You could do that when there's visa restrictions so what difference would it make?
Probably something to do with comprehensive screening and tracking, otherwise every country in the world would have visa free access. As an exercise for the reader, ask yourself what is the reason why they don't?
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 16:57
It doesn't make it any less easier to go missing though or to take up residence which is what your original point was.
Also could you tell me what extra information you put on a visa that isn't on the chip in your passport?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 17:06
It doesn't make it any less easier to go missing though or to take up residence which is what your original point was.
Also could you tell me what extra information you put on a visa that isn't on the chip in your passport?
Didn't you know you are not supposed to answer a question with a question? :hehe:
Didn't you know you are not supposed to answer a question with a question? :hehe:
Why not?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 17:12
Why not?
It might lead to a request for a visa being turned down because they think the person is a bit thick :hehe:
gluey having a 'mare in the full gaze of the main board :hehe:
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 17:20
gluey having a 'mare in the full gaze of the main board :hehe:
Croesy Blue sniffs glue?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 17:28
Having just applied for a visa, they wanted current bank statements, reason for visit, address where I will be staying, details of return flights and a letter from my employer stating that I would be returning to my job. This seems to be the standard procedure, with people coming in the opposite probably subject to even more scrutiny.
Having just applied for a visa, they wanted current bank statements, reason for visit, address where I will be staying, details of return flights and a letter from my employer stating that I would be returning to my job. This seems to be the standard procedure, with people coming in the opposite probably subject to even more scrutiny.
Where you off?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 17:53
These visa's that you talk about - are they working visas or holiday visas ?
Of the million that come how many do you think will just vanish and work in the illegal economy to send the money back home - and so reduce wages for everyone else here.
Visa free entry is also the preferred method of entry for thieves, prostitutes, terrorists, rapists, and what not.
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 17:54
These visa's that you talk about - are they working visas or holiday visas ?
Of the million that come how many do you think will just vanish and work in the illegal economy to send the money back home - and so reduce wages for everyone else here.
They're holiday visas, Turkish people won't be able to obtain work visas via free movement.
I'm not sure how many will vanish and work illegally, how many do you think? Surely we should be cracking down on the people who employ them illegally if they're doing that?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 17:55
Where you off?
I'm wearing white Y-fronts and I had chicken curry for tea. What else do you want to know? :hehe:
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 17:56
Having just applied for a visa, they wanted current bank statements, reason for visit, address where I will be staying, details of return flights and a letter from my employer stating that I would be returning to my job. This seems to be the standard procedure, with people coming in the opposite probably subject to even more scrutiny.
Where are you going? You don't need bank statements and an employee letter for a holiday visa?
I started working abroad lasts month actually, although within the EU and even though it's quite a lot of paperwork even when it's through a company who already employ you.
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 17:59
Just to add I'm completely against Turkey being allowed in the EU with their human rights record and current government.
I don't think allowing travel via a visa waiver as we have via the U.S is a gateway to this at all and also don't think it encourages illegal working any more than travelling on a visa does.
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 18:01
Where are you going? You don't need bank statements and an employee letter for a holiday visa?
I started working abroad lasts month actually, although within the EU and even though it's quite a lot of paperwork even when it's through a company who already employ you.
It all depends which country people are travelling to, and those coming in the opposite direction also have the added pleasure of personal interviews to look forward to.
Generally speaking Brits have visa free travel in most countries as it's a money spinner for the host nation, but that is not always reciprocated.
I'm wearing white Y-fronts and I had chicken curry for tea. What else do you want to know? :hehe:
You aren't going away really are you. :hehe:
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 18:05
It all depends which country people are travelling to, and those coming in the opposite direction also have the added pleasure of personal interviews to look forward to.
Very unlikely for a holiday visa that you'd have to have an interview or give all the information you've listed.
For a work visa yes but that would mean the person was coming over legally to work anyway.
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 18:12
Just to add I'm completely against Turkey being allowed in the EU with their human rights record and current government.
I don't think allowing travel via a visa waiver as we have via the U.S is a gateway to this at all and also don't think it encourages illegal working any more than travelling on a visa does.
Don't forget the economic discrepancies that exist between developed countries and the rest of the world. In your example you have chosen two like-for-like countries, and they also have favourable reciprocal employment agreements in place, which more or less eliminates the need to work illegally.
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 18:18
You aren't going away really are you. :hehe:
I might be :hehe:
PS you can get one-year visa free in Georgia if that's your thing, and it's also a good place to start up a location independent business :thumbup:
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 18:32
Don't forget the economic discrepancies that exist between developed countries and the rest of the world. In your example you have chosen two like-for-like countries, and they also have favourable reciprocal employment agreements in place, which more or less eliminates the need to work illegally.
You don't need all that to go to Rwanda or Russia either, is that a better example?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 18:34
Very unlikely for a holiday visa that you'd have to have an interview or give all the information you've listed.
For a work visa yes but that would mean the person was coming over legally to work anyway.
It's highly likely if there are no visa free or visa on arrival protocols in place. Try viewing the world from the viewpoint of a non-privalidged westerner who takes everything for granted :thumbup:
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 18:36
You don't need all that to go to Rwanda or Russia either, is that a better example?
Like I said it works on a country to country basis, and the agreements are not always equal, with extra demands placed on those travelling in our direction.
I might be :hehe:
PS you can get one-year visa free in Georgia if that's your thing, and it's also a good place to start up a location independent business :thumbup:
One moment you can't make it to the City as you're a single father, next you're flying of to former soviet states to to invent Google Maps.
The wonderful life of Gluey. :biggrin:
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 18:45
It's highly likely if there are no visa free or visa on arrival protocols in place. Try viewing the world from the viewpoint of a non-privalidged westerner who takes everything for granted :thumbup:
Are you purposely missing the point?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 18:51
One moment you can't make it to the City as you're a single father, next you're flying of to former soviet states to to invent Google Maps.
The wonderful life of Gluey. :biggrin:
The information wasn't aimed at you or Gluby in particular, just general advice regarding visas, and I noticed lot's of entrepreneurial types are heading to Eastern Europe. I hear the lifestyle in places like Tbilisi is pretty good, with low taxes and cheap property prices.
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 18:53
Do people think I'm gluey? I was the stars guy until I changed to Croesy.
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 18:54
Are you purposely missing the point?
What point? That people heading towards Europe generally get fecked about when trying to obtain holiday visas?
Organ Morgan.
02-08-16, 19:15
I'm wearing white Y-fronts and I had chicken curry for tea. What else do you want to know? :hehe:
Tell TruBlue nowt. He's the message board equivalent of nosey Norris from The Kabin on Coronation Street.
Do people think I'm gluey? I was the stars guy until I changed to Croesy.
not you, wales-bales :thumbup:
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 19:27
not you, wales-bales :thumbup:
What is your view on visas? Do you have one? What are your views on anything? Do you have any? :hehe:
:wales:
What is your view on visas? Do you have one? What are your views on anything? Do you have any? :hehe:
:wales:
never needed a visa apart from the electronic one to Oz,
my view on you, a massive bell end :wales: :hehe:
Do people think I'm gluey? I was the stars guy until I changed to Croesy.
As Packerman says, Gluey is Wales-Bales. He lives in a fantasy world. :biggrin:
CCFC_Urawa_Reds
02-08-16, 19:44
Why is this even here? If we can't talk about a centre which presents a clear and present danger to our city, then why are we talking about immigration concerns regarding Turkey and The EU?
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 20:25
never needed a visa apart from the electronic one to Oz
So you will only visit a county if it has a McDonald's :hehe:
So you will only visit a county if it has a McDonald's :hehe:
what a great comeback, side splitter from Walter :hehe:
Croesy Blue
02-08-16, 20:55
Why is this even here? If we can't talk about a centre which presents a clear and present danger to our city, then why are we talking about immigration concerns regarding Turkey and The EU?
We can talk about it in the politics forum
Exiting the EU will have little or no effect.
We get most of our turkeys from Norfolk.
Wales-Bales
02-08-16, 22:05
Exiting the EU will have little or no effect.
We get most of our turkeys from Norfolk.
Norfolking way :-)
Like I said it works on a country to country basis, and the agreements are not always equal, with extra demands placed on those travelling in our direction.
You said bank statements and letter from employer were standard procedure. Now you're saying it varies from country to country.
Wales-Bales
03-08-16, 00:40
You said bank statements and letter from employer were standard procedure. Now you're saying it varies from country to country.
What took you so long to get here? :hehe:
Those are the basics, some ask for more.
What took you so long to get here? :hehe:
Those are the basics, some ask for more.
Which country/countries are you talking about?
the leader
03-08-16, 07:42
They're holiday visas, Turkish people won't be able to obtain work visas via free movement.
I'm not sure how many will vanish and work illegally, how many do you think? Surely we should be cracking down on the people who employ them illegally if they're doing that?
Ok, I'm back to monitor my responses and nobody has argued the case I put forward so it seems I read it right. On your point here though you seem to be getting more and more bogged down by an illogical stance. The point of Visas is that there is redress for the recipient country and an agreed date for an individual to leave. Visas often cost money and there is an administrative function involved that deters criminals.
People with visas vanish, we know this, but customs staff are professional and are able to stop people with visas through questioning....where are you staying, with whom, what flight are you returning on, you have no holiday clothes and so on and so forth. It's not foolproof but it is a safeguard of sorts.
A no visa ruling means that people just need a passport, nothing more. They are allowed entry into EU member states by virtue of having a passport alone. No reason for visit necessary. How you cannot see this as problematic befuddles me and it seems you're arguing on the basis that you're right irrespective of logic because it's your viewpoint and as such correct.
I'm not sure you'd be a good chap to run border control anywhere soon.
the leader
03-08-16, 07:46
Very unlikely for a holiday visa that you'd have to have an interview or give all the information you've listed.
For a work visa yes but that would mean the person was coming over legally to work anyway.
You're wrong. It is people with holiday visas who are most likely to be stopped by customs and interviewed. They are easier to spot if their intention is not to go back.
Splott Dave
03-08-16, 07:55
Ok, I'm back to monitor my responses and nobody has argued the case I put forward so it seems I read it right. On your point here though you seem to be getting more and more bogged down by an illogical stance. The point of Visas is that there is redress for the recipient country and an agreed date for an individual to leave. Visas often cost money and there is an administrative function involved that deters criminals.
People with visas vanish, we know this, but customs staff are professional and are able to stop people with visas through questioning....where are you staying, with whom, what flight are you returning on, you have no holiday clothes and so on and so forth. It's not foolproof but it is a safeguard of sorts.
A no visa ruling means that people just need a passport, nothing more. They are allowed entry into EU member states by virtue of having a passport alone. No reason for visit necessary. How you cannot see this as problematic befuddles me and it seems you're arguing on the basis that you're right irrespective of logic because it's your viewpoint and as such correct.
I'm not sure you'd be a good chap to run border control anywhere soon.
The biggest problem that Britain has with 'overstayers' is with Australians and New Zealanders. Historically they have always consistently topped the league tables, but corporate/state media outlets seem not to want to mention that, as it doesn't quite fit in with the underlying anti-brown people narrative, that is spoon fed to the British public...
the leader
03-08-16, 08:29
The biggest problem that Britain has with 'overstayers' is with Australians and New Zealanders. Historically they have always consistently topped the league tables, but corporate/state media outlets seem not to want to mention that, as it doesn't quite fit in with the underlying anti-brown people narrative, that is spoon fed to the British public...
I would certainly not disagree this point but the difference between examples is stark. Aussies and NZ people integrate freely, actual.y want to be part of our society and they speak the lingo.
I suspect that, should Syrians, Afghans or anyone else come here speaking fluent English and happy to take on our values they would be embraced. The fact is that those that do, are.
Croesy Blue
03-08-16, 08:48
You're wrong. It is people with holiday visas who are most likely to be stopped by customs and interviewed. They are easier to spot if their intention is not to go back.
We are talking about arranged interview for every person taking up a visa, "random" interviews are obviously going to target people with holiday visas from certain areas.
Croesy Blue
03-08-16, 08:49
Ok, I'm back to monitor my responses and nobody has argued the case I put forward so it seems I read it right. On your point here though you seem to be getting more and more bogged down by an illogical stance. The point of Visas is that there is redress for the recipient country and an agreed date for an individual to leave. Visas often cost money and there is an administrative function involved that deters criminals.
People with visas vanish, we know this, but customs staff are professional and are able to stop people with visas through questioning....where are you staying, with whom, what flight are you returning on, you have no holiday clothes and so on and so forth. It's not foolproof but it is a safeguard of sorts.
A no visa ruling means that people just need a passport, nothing more. They are allowed entry into EU member states by virtue of having a passport alone. No reason for visit necessary. How you cannot see this as problematic befuddles me and it seems you're arguing on the basis that you're right irrespective of logic because it's your viewpoint and as such correct.
I'm not sure you'd be a good chap to run border control anywhere soon.
A visa costs ~£100 if someone is intent on getting to a country illegally it isn't going to put them off.
I agree we should stay vigilant on turkey but I don't think this would be as big a deal as you are making out.
Croesy Blue
03-08-16, 08:50
I would certainly not disagree this point but the difference between examples is stark. Aussies and NZ people integrate freely, actual.y want to be part of our society and they speak the lingo.
I suspect that, should Syrians, Afghans or anyone else come here speaking fluent English and happy to take on our values they would be embraced. The fact is that those that do, are.
So you aren't actually bothered about people staying in the country illegally then?
Wales-Bales
03-08-16, 19:37
You're wrong. It is people with holiday visas who are most likely to be stopped by customs and interviewed. They are easier to spot if their intention is not to go back.
Actually they have interview centres in the host countries, run by or on behalf of the British Embassies. Any person who fails to meet the stringent requirements will be refused a visa, which could be the vast majority of applicants depending on the country in question, so they will never even get as far as Heathrow.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.