View Full Version : We are a basket case of a club who need to change direction rapid
I said we would have three managers this season and it seems even i was being conservative?
We are in a complete mess from top to bottom.
The owner and his cronies are incapable of running a football club.
There decision making and stewardship of the club over the last few seasons has been laughable.
We all want things to change for the better but as long as those three football lightweights are in control tmhere is only one way we are going regardless of who they appoint
You would have kept Trollope on? - just to avoid having another change of manager?
I get your drift , but . .
I'm no fan of the Tan regime, but give credit where it is due, Trollope failed to deliver in a reasonable period and they took decisive action.
Only you seem to be whining, though Tandy probably will later. Nobody will be surprised about either occurrence ;)
GRUMPYS DEN
04-10-16, 14:39
I wonder if chepstow is any good at his job???:shrug:
LordKenwyne
04-10-16, 14:44
For the first time it is almost completely accepted the manager had to go.
Some of the tactical decisions were ridiculous.
If he stayed in charge we would have seen the same players play game after game and we'd go down.
Playing horrifically then pick the exact same team a few days later.
Take some risks with Harris, Kennedy and the others ffs!.
thehumblegringo
04-10-16, 14:54
For the first time ever I agree with Chepstow.
If we go off in the opposite direction to the proposed "Cardiff Way" that has been bandied about by Choo by hiring a shit journeyman then it will seriously test my resolve as a season ticket holder
For the first time ever I agree with Chepstow.
If we go off in the opposite direction to the proposed "Cardiff Way" that has been bandied about by Choo by hiring a shit journeyman then it will seriously test my resolve as a season ticket holder
For all the talk in the press what exactly was the Cardiff Way.
There were no youngsters being played (John was in and out), there was no goals being scored and no attempts at stopping them the other way.
Id rather see evidence of the clubs progression with my eyes on the pitch, rather than reading it on the clubs website.
What worries me about this club is that recently, it is like the club is talking to the message boards. You have seen quotes from the manager that almost answer criticism on here. Yesterday in the meeting with the trust the CEO references talk on the message boards. It shouldn't be doing this.
Im a nobody fan, i've got no insider info on the club, when i've got spare time i might have a chat on here about what i see, and what i feel about the club.
I dont really know whats happening about the scouting system, i dont know who is employed by the club, if the management want to change the perceptions about its systems, then go out and make them work, dont keep telling me what the systems are in the press.
Colonel Cærdiffi
04-10-16, 15:25
What worries me about this club is that recently, it is like the club is talking to the message boards. You have seen quotes from the manager that almost answer criticism on here. Yesterday in the meeting with the trust the CEO references talk on the message boards. It shouldn't be doing this.
"They should communicate more with the fans ffs"
"Stop talking to the fans ffs"
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
"They should communicate more with the fans ffs"
"Stop talking to the fans ffs"
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
I'm not against dialogue with the fans, there are ways and means.
It just the club keep on addressing what they feel are mistakes on message boards, if the club put out stories about the Cardiff Way, and about Transfer Committees then fans are going to address these points directly. If the club want fans to stop speculating about said committee the best way would be for it to sign some decent players.
Pedro de la Rosa
04-10-16, 15:40
I'm not against dialogue with the fans, there are ways and means.
It just the club keep on addressing what they feel are mistakes on message boards, if the club put out stories about the Cardiff Way, and about Transfer Committees then fans are going to address these points directly. If the club want fans to stop speculating about said committee the best way would be for it to sign some decent players.
The club spoke to the supporters trust. If they can't talk to the trust, who can they speak to?
Also, the Cardiff way is a nice idea but it has been a complete disaster for the first team this year. We need to go back to basics and try and stay up. If "the Cardiff Way" was working, we wouldn't have sacked our manager after 11 games. I'd rather a Justin Edinburgh but I think the club are going to go for Warnock. Also, Warnock is available and we'd have to pay money for JE!
"They should communicate more with the fans ffs"
"Stop talking to the fans ffs"
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Not really.
Communicate with the fans through the trust, official supporters clubs etc. so that people know what's going on.
Don't communicate with loons that post bollox on message boards (obv. I'm talking about **** not us)
Simple.
The club spoke to the supporters trust. If they can't talk to the trust, who can they speak to?
Im more than happy with the club speaking to the supporters trust.
However my point is why do they have to reference mistakes written on message boards in that meeting. Fans will talk on message boards and fans will make mistakes and errors on the exact set-up on things. The trust asked the question because our transfer record is currently poor. Instead of being a bit over touchy about things, improve said practices and the talk goes away.
When the club talks to organisations like the trust it should concentrate on the questions being put to it, as it expresses the concerns of the fan base as a whole, and forget about what individuals write on message boards.
For the first time ever I agree with Chepstow.
If we go off in the opposite direction to the proposed "Cardiff Way" that has been bandied about by Choo by hiring a shit journeyman then it will seriously test my resolve as a season ticket holder
Surprised Gringo.
Chepstow's statement was if's and buts and whining.
Surely not really feasible to agree, or disagree - yet.
If CCFC employ a manager you approve of, then surely you will not mind :)
Hmm . here's hoping eh!
Pedro de la Rosa
04-10-16, 15:53
Im more than happy with the club speaking to the supporters trust.
However my point is why do they have to reference mistakes written on message boards in that meeting. Fans will talk on message boards and fans will make mistakes and errors on the exact set-up on things. The trust asked the question because our transfer record is currently poor. Instead of being a bit over touchy about things, improve said practices and the talk goes away.
When the club talks to organisations like the trust it should concentrate on the questions being put to it, as it expresses the concerns of the fan base as a whole, and forget about what individuals write on message boards.
The club have got their line and they'll go with it. The transfer committee though is a joke, you know it, I know it and I suspect Choo knows it. I'd estimate about 15 signings since we got promoted could be classified as a success, to some degree; and that would include the likes of Medel and Caulker, simply by the fact we didn't lose money on them.
Choo needs to be asked how the club plan to address this and why we don't have a Head of Recruitment, especially when Paul Trollope is a coach first and a manager second. Anyway, this is all redundant now as we can look forward to Paddy Kenny warming the bench in January.
Colonel Cærdiffi
04-10-16, 15:55
Not really.
Communicate with the fans through the trust, official supporters clubs etc. so that people know what's going on.
Don't communicate with loons that post bollox on message boards (obv. I'm talking about **** not us)
Simple.
The people that post on the boards are the fans though. They'll post on here the same stuff they bring up in meetings with the club so the MB's are bound to reflect the opinions and point raised in meetings.
The people running the show are actively looking for feedback (no, not him) on the internet and answering it as best they can, same as any decent business might. This is just one of those occasions where people just have to find something incredibly petty to moan about.
The people that post on the boards are the fans though. They'll post on here the same stuff they bring up in meetings with the club so the MB's are bound to reflect the opinions and point raised in meetings.
The people running the show are actively looking for feedback (no, not him) on the internet and answering it as best they can, same as any decent business might. This is just one of those occasions where people just have to find something incredibly petty to moan about.
I understand you point.
However during Trollopes time, and during interview it would often strike me as a manager who was aware of the talk on message boards. In some cases where fans ask for the manager to take responsibility for defeats or ask for managers to talk about players letting down fans. Fans might want this but it might not work as well in a team environment, sometimes it might work better to have a siege mentality or to insist its simply down to bad luck to create a more positive atmosphere around a group.
I was struck by the fact that Choo referred to mistakes on message boards. There will always be mistakes here, we dont really know the internal structure of the club and we will speculate. I would have preferred for Choo to have put more detail into his answer rather than going into the fans make mistakes, and simply talking about the committee again.
Its my opinion that the club at this point in time are putting to much notice onto message boards, but accept that there is a valid case the other way.
The club spoke to the supporters trust. If they can't talk to the trust, who can they speak to?
Also, the Cardiff way is a nice idea but it has been a complete disaster for the first team this year. We need to go back to basics and try and stay up. If "the Cardiff Way" was working, we wouldn't have sacked our manager after 11 games. I'd rather a Justin Edinburgh but I think the club are going to go for Warnock. Also, Warnock is available and we'd have to pay money for JE!
'The Cardiff Way' doesn't exist yet, but we do need a club strategy and philosophy that outlasts the current manager (whoever that is).
A lot of what Dalman, Choo and (to a lesser extent) Trollope have laid out is a recognition that Cardiff City Football Club has been directionless and that needs to change. Dave Jones to Malky Mackay to Ole Gunnar Solksjaer to Russell Slade to Paul Trollope (never mind the glorious reigns of Kerslake and Young/Gabbidon) had us swinging from one extreme to another and racking up players and debt along the way as a lack of Board direction and financial control was exposed. Combine that with poor communication with fans, a red shirt, and a blocked route for youth players to the first team.
However, even whilst some of that was still going on the club did reverse the rebrand, and Tan made the firmest of commitments to converting debt into equity in February. Financial controls have clearly been tightened and we appear to be staying on the right side of FFP sanctions. Talk of a local identity and a style of play that would be reflected in the u23s, u18s and younger age group teams - and in player recruitment - was all good. That has to happen for the club and the team to be successful and sustainable.
The weaknesses and the disconnect between some of the statements and what is actually happening are obvious. But even if the club go for a one season fire-fighter like Warnock, I hope they don't ditch 'The Cardiff Way'. I hope they give it real meaning and take it to the next level through the Board, a better scouting and recruitment process, through the development and academy squads, through fan communication and engagement.... and be ready to go again with a long-term plan next summer.
Colonel Cærdiffi
04-10-16, 16:11
I understand you point.
However during Trollopes time, and during interview it would often strike me as a manager who was aware of the talk on message boards. In some cases where fans ask for the manager to take responsibility for defeats or ask for managers to talk about players letting down fans. Fans might want this but it might not work as well in a team environment, sometimes it might work better to have a siege mentality or to insist its simply down to bad luck to create a more positive atmosphere around a group.
I was struck by the fact that Choo referred to mistakes on message boards. There will always be mistakes here, we dont really know the internal structure of the club and we will speculate. I would have preferred for Choo to have put more detail into his answer rather than going into the fans make mistakes, and simply talking about the committee again.
Its my opinion that the club at this point in time are putting to much notice onto message boards, but accept that there is a valid case the other way.
Fair enough.
I just imagine the conversation at the club would go "I wonder what the fans are saying about x", and then some underling has a quick scan of the messageboards to get a feel of opinion, comes back and tells the CEO (or whoever) and the CEO thinks, "Right, well I'll address that at the next meeting".
Fair enough.
I just imagine the conversation at the club would go "I wonder what the fans are saying about x", and then some underling has a quick scan of the messageboards to get a feel of opinion, comes back and tells the CEO (or whoever) and the CEO thinks, "Right, well I'll address that at the next meeting".
It would be wiser not to address message boards directly in the comments, in my opinion. You might think it would be a sensible option but you don't want it out there that you are actively scrawling message boards for ideas.
'The Cardiff Way' doesn't exist yet, but we do need a club strategy and philosophy that outlasts the current manager (whoever that is).
A lot of what Dalman, Choo and (to a lesser extent) Trollope have laid out is a recognition that Cardiff City Football Club has been directionless and that needs to change. Dave Jones to Malky Mackay to Ole Gunnar Solksjaer to Russell Slade to Paul Trollope (never mind the glorious reigns of Kerslake and Young/Gabbidon) had us swinging from one extreme to another and racking up players and debt along the way as a lack of Board direction and financial control was exposed. Combine that with poor communication with fans, a red shirt, and a blocked route for youth players to the first team.
However, even whilst some of that was still going on the club did reverse the rebrand, and Tan made the firmest of commitments to converting debt into equity in February. Financial controls have clearly been tightened and we appear to be staying on the right side of FFP sanctions. Talk of a local identity and a style of play that would be reflected in the u23s, u18s and younger age group teams - and in player recruitment - was all good. That has to happen for the club and the team to be successful and sustainable.
The weaknesses and the disconnect between some of the statements and what is actually happening are obvious. But even if the club go for a one season fire-fighter like Warnock, I hope they don't ditch 'The Cardiff Way'. I hope they give it real meaning and take it to the next level through the Board, a better scouting and recruitment process, through the development and academy squads, through fan communication and engagement.... and be ready to go again with a long-term plan next summer.
I think its fair, the article impressed me, i think every fan wants a vision and a direction for their club. Reading it at the time though it just had the feeling that it was going to come back.
The club are currently doing empty rhetoric over necessary improvements.
Firstly improve your systems and when results improve, then talk about the changes done to achieve these. If you talk about improved scouting first then people will talk about why with all these improvements in signings.
Pedro de la Rosa
04-10-16, 16:20
'The Cardiff Way' doesn't exist yet, but we do need a club strategy and philosophy that outlasts the current manager (whoever that is).
A lot of what Dalman, Choo and (to a lesser extent) Trollope have laid out is a recognition that Cardiff City Football Club has been directionless and that needs to change. Dave Jones to Malky Mackay to Ole Gunnar Solksjaer to Russell Slade to Paul Trollope (never mind the glorious reigns of Kerslake and Young/Gabbidon) had us swinging from one extreme to another and racking up players and debt along the way as a lack of Board direction and financial control was exposed. Combine that with poor communication with fans, a red shirt, and a blocked route for youth players to the first team.
However, even whilst some of that was still going on the club did reverse the rebrand, and Tan made the firmest of commitments to converting debt into equity in February. Financial controls have clearly been tightened and we appear to be staying on the right side of FFP sanctions. Talk of a local identity and a style of play that would be reflected in the u23s, u18s and younger age group teams - and in player recruitment - was all good. That has to happen for the club and the team to be successful and sustainable.
The weaknesses and the disconnect between some of the statements and what is actually happening are obvious. But even if the club go for a one season fire-fighter like Warnock, I hope they don't ditch 'The Cardiff Way'. I hope they give it real meaning and take it to the next level through the Board, a better scouting and recruitment process, through the development and academy squads, through fan communication and engagement.... and be ready to go again with a long-term plan next summer.
The Cardiff way was the 3-5-2/5-3-2 wasn't it? I'm sure the youth teams are all playing that.
I have no issue with them trying to get a plan together but it won't last very long if they employ Warnock, he doesn't care about anything other than the first team. If we have to turn to him (which I expect we will) then the blame is at the door of Choo, Dalman, Tan and Trollope. They've horribly managed the football side of the club in the entire time they've been here, even if Choo have rebuilt some of the bridges between the fans and the club (I don't think Tan and Dalman have by the way).
I agree the club has to reinvent itself, again, and I agree with nearly everything you've said. Warnock to save our bacon this year with a long term plan from this summer. We should be close to paying off all of OGS's terrible, terrible signings, Manga etc will have gone and we might be able to move forward.
I'd like to know who actually are our scouts and what they do, as the players we've signed, foreign ones especially have been abysmal for years.
we have been a basket case of a club for 30 years, its not a new thing
the other bob wilson
04-10-16, 16:21
'The Cardiff Way' doesn't exist yet, but we do need a club strategy and philosophy that outlasts the current manager (whoever that is).
A lot of what Dalman, Choo and (to a lesser extent) Trollope have laid out is a recognition that Cardiff City Football Club has been directionless and that needs to change. Dave Jones to Malky Mackay to Ole Gunnar Solksjaer to Russell Slade to Paul Trollope (never mind the glorious reigns of Kerslake and Young/Gabbidon) had us swinging from one extreme to another and racking up players and debt along the way as a lack of Board direction and financial control was exposed. Combine that with poor communication with fans, a red shirt, and a blocked route for youth players to the first team.
However, even whilst some of that was still going on the club did reverse the rebrand, and Tan made the firmest of commitments to converting debt into equity in February. Financial controls have clearly been tightened and we appear to be staying on the right side of FFP sanctions. Talk of a local identity and a style of play that would be reflected in the u23s, u18s and younger age group teams - and in player recruitment - was all good. That has to happen for the club and the team to be successful and sustainable.
The weaknesses and the disconnect between some of the statements and what is actually happening are obvious. But even if the club go for a one season fire-fighter like Warnock, I hope they don't ditch 'The Cardiff Way'. I hope they give it real meaning and take it to the next level through the Board, a better scouting and recruitment process, through the development and academy squads, through fan communication and engagement.... and be ready to go again with a long-term plan next summer.
Good post Jon - the idea of a "Cardiff Way" is a good one and to think of it as some sort of failure because it's not up and running a month or so after it was first mooted is ridiculous - I just hope those who were telling us about it realise that it will require huge changes from them as well as others at the club on the footballing side, if is it to become anything more than another thing that is talked about for while and then gently shoved to one side.
Des Parrot
04-10-16, 16:31
long-term plan.
It's simple isn't it. Tan has proposed a financial long term plan, now what's the footballing long term plan to match it?
You would have kept Trollope on? - just to avoid having another change of manager?
I get your drift , but . .
I'm no fan of the Tan regime, but give credit where it is due, Trollope failed to deliver in a reasonable period and they took decisive action.
Only you seem to be whining, though Tandy probably will later. Nobody will be surprised about either occurrence ;)
Are you in the real world. Me and tandy whining? Your having a laff. Me and tandy were the only ones on here who werent whining all last season when slade took us to the top 8 in the league we are sit 23rd in!!!!!!
Are you in the real world. Me and tandy whining? Your having a laff. Me and tandy were the only ones on here who werent whining all last season when slade took us to the top 8 in the league we are sit 23rd in!!!!!!
:biggrin: :hehe:
Good on ya feller. :thumbup: Wit woo!
thehumblegringo
04-10-16, 20:07
For all the talk in the press what exactly was the Cardiff Way.
There were no youngsters being played (John was in and out), there was no goals being scored and no attempts at stopping them the other way.
Id rather see evidence of the clubs progression with my eyes on the pitch, rather than reading it on the clubs website.
With all due respect, I don't know what this response is supposed to mean!
Do you think we could establish a footballing identity in 12 weeks?!
Trollope was set this task but unfortunately it came to the detriment of the short term too much thus he's being replaced.
I have my reservations about whether Trollope could provide an expansive brand of football having now witnessed his in my opinion over cautious approach.
Does that mean we should just jack any ambition of developing any progressive football at this club and live for results week by week?
We need to have two plans running alongside each other. One for the here and now and one for the long term. I wonder if Warnock is man to implement the second plan.
thehumblegringo
04-10-16, 20:14
Surprised Gringo.
Chepstow's statement was if's and buts and whining.
Surely not really feasible to agree, or disagree - yet.
If CCFC employ a manager you approve of, then surely you will not mind :)
Hmm . here's hoping eh!
I just think we are tossed around in the wind mate, constantly reacting on a whim.
Signing Welsh players for example on the back of Wales Euro success. Now we would all love to see Welsh players in Cardiff shirts, but signing Emyr Huws only to find out that he can't get in our current midfield is unbelievable.
We need to have a solid plan that is built signing players based on quality that can actually strengthen our team.
How many players have we signed in recent years who are weaker than the starting 11.
If the club are serious about being successful they would at least consult someone with Craig Bellamy's experience in the game considering he's currently helping out at the club for FREE!
thehumblegringo
04-10-16, 20:17
'The Cardiff Way' doesn't exist yet, but we do need a club strategy and philosophy that outlasts the current manager (whoever that is).
A lot of what Dalman, Choo and (to a lesser extent) Trollope have laid out is a recognition that Cardiff City Football Club has been directionless and that needs to change. Dave Jones to Malky Mackay to Ole Gunnar Solksjaer to Russell Slade to Paul Trollope (never mind the glorious reigns of Kerslake and Young/Gabbidon) had us swinging from one extreme to another and racking up players and debt along the way as a lack of Board direction and financial control was exposed. Combine that with poor communication with fans, a red shirt, and a blocked route for youth players to the first team.
However, even whilst some of that was still going on the club did reverse the rebrand, and Tan made the firmest of commitments to converting debt into equity in February. Financial controls have clearly been tightened and we appear to be staying on the right side of FFP sanctions. Talk of a local identity and a style of play that would be reflected in the u23s, u18s and younger age group teams - and in player recruitment - was all good. That has to happen for the club and the team to be successful and sustainable.
The weaknesses and the disconnect between some of the statements and what is actually happening are obvious. But even if the club go for a one season fire-fighter like Warnock, I hope they don't ditch 'The Cardiff Way'. I hope they give it real meaning and take it to the next level through the Board, a better scouting and recruitment process, through the development and academy squads, through fan communication and engagement.... and be ready to go again with a long-term plan next summer.
Excellent post Jon
thehumblegringo
04-10-16, 20:19
Having now read through the thread is see that some of the points I made have already been addressed
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