View Full Version : Safe in their hands
To be fair - you would need to define waiting for what treatment.
Cancer, physio, mental health, gyno, kids, geriatric.
The difference in that graph is there are 180,000 less people waiting today than there were under Labour in 2007.
Labour threw money at the NHS like confetti in the early 2000's - and lots of it wasted or mis spent under PFI (which will take years to pay off at exorbitant rates of interest) - I know I fecking worked on a few NHS contracts - the waste was colossus.
The good bit though was the NHS had the power to tie companies in deadlines and penalties - something they had not been able to do before. Accenture dived out early and so did Fujitsu.
NHS Wales on the other hand were not part of the program - and decided to go their own way (bad move big time). If you ever looked how the NHS in Wales was structured , with individual fiefdoms everywhere - it's pathetic beyond belief. Which is why you never fix a problem by just throwing money at it just my 2p worth.
The throwing money at it you describe in the early 2000 was basically bringing it into line with spending in most of the rest of Europe (and about a third of the USA).
In the 80s and 90s under the Tories we were spending half as much as Germany on healthcare.
life on mars
14-06-18, 16:10
2007 population 60,975,000
2018 population 66,573,504
More eastern Europeans immigration now pulling heavily on our services
Life expectancy is up .
Need a war
2007 population 60,975,000
2018 population 66,573,504
More eastern Europeans immigration now pulling heavily on our services
Life expectancy is up .
Need a war
Funding has a much bigger effect on services than population/immigration.
2007 population 60,975,000
2018 population 66,573,504
More eastern Europeans immigration now pulling heavily on our services
Life expectancy is up .
Need a war
I was going to comment on the population increase over the period as well. Can't understand why anyone but the terminally stupid would look at these figures in isolation with the obvious massive influx in population.
Still, its propaganda like this that works for the stupid.
Funding has a much bigger effect on services than population/immigration.
Are you saying funding has decreased over the period?
I was going to comment on the population increase over the period as well. Can't understand why anyone but the terminally stupid would look at these figures in isolation with the obvious massive influx in population.
Still, its propaganda like this that works for the stupid.
There's been research that drills down into areas and compares A&E waiting time with local immigrant population. Turns out there's no correlation.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/high-immigration-nhs-crisis
EU immigrants tend to pay more in to the system than they take out - not surprising as they also tend to be of healthy working age.
The NHS could claim more money back from their home countries than it does. Who knows why they don't - admin staff shortages, perhaps?
Are you saying funding has decreased over the period?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/theresa-may-health-cuts-nhs-local-budgets-analysis-public-sexual-stis-syphilis-kings-fund-85-million-a7836086.html
Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets this year (2017), analysis reveals
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/theresa-may-health-cuts-nhs-local-budgets-analysis-public-sexual-stis-syphilis-kings-fund-85-million-a7836086.html
Theresa May to oversee £85m in cuts to public health budgets this year (2017), analysis reveals
The article refers to public health initiatives not spending on the NHS in general, which is what we are talking about.
Has spending on the NHS been cut over the period referred to.
Eric Cartman
14-06-18, 16:44
I was going to comment on the population increase over the period as well. Can't understand why anyone but the terminally stupid would look at these figures in isolation with the obvious massive influx in population.
Still, its propaganda like this that works for the stupid.
Big but not massive enough to explain the increase. As ninianclark says though you can't analyse something as complex as this off a simple (and undefined) number.
If the graph was intended to be propaganda I don't think it would start in 2007!
Big but not massive enough to explain the increase. As ninianclark says though you can't analyse something as complex as this off a simple (and undefined) number.
If the graph was intended to be propaganda I don't think it would start in 2007!
No, but in this instance it is being used as propaganda by the OP.
SLUDGE FACTORY
14-06-18, 22:14
I would add my own experience of having to go to a real emergency at the Heath, on three separate occasions going to Heath A&E - it's not hard to figure out that certain people of certain ethic / national backgrounds - that obviously dont have access to a GP or havent registered for some reason - use A&E as a defacto GP surgery.
On the 4th time I went to the fracture clinic - there was an over abundance of nursing staff - so much so - it was almost like one of the ghost hospitals in North Korea - thats just for show - and no real patients.
That graph is meaningless - like we all seem to agree and there are so many variables - you could make it mean whatever you want it to.
In your experience lol , yeah and Wales are going to win this year's football world cup
You've got a story of bullshit for every day of the week
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 04:28
Your tablets have just kicked in have they ?
Stick to your childish / sexist ' I nearly sh@gged a woman' type posts on the other forum
Take the piss out of mental health as much as you like like the other arsehole it wll come back to visit you don't worry about that Tory boy
Auntie Andy
15-06-18, 04:58
In your experience lol , yeah and Wales are going to win this year's football world cup
You've got a story of bullshit for every day of the week
This ^^^
I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a me, me, me, me poster in my life. He even sent me PMs telling me all about how wonderful he is :hehe:
feckinel - even Sludge's alter ego is on one.
"He even sent me PMs" - really ?
I sent you ONE PM - as you know on 17th December at 12:45 - here is the screen shot - why not screen shot your inbox - it's very easy to do
https://snag.gy/T4C5g2.jpg
Mad, bad and dangerous.
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 08:20
Mad, bad and dangerous.
Mad , bad , sectioned , if there any lower you can stoop
A few years ago , correct me if I am wrong , your wife had cancer, would it be ok if I made some wisecracks about her on here ? It's only a joke after all, like suicide it doesn't really exist
Let's have it chopsy
Mad , bad , sectioned , if there any lower you can stoop
A few years ago , correct me if I am wrong , your wife had cancer, would it be ok if I made some wisecracks about her on here ? It's only a joke after all, like suicide it doesn't really exist
Let's have it chopsy
WTF are you on about Sludge??
Croesy Blue
15-06-18, 09:18
I would add my own experience of having to go to a real emergency at the Heath, on three separate occasions going to Heath A&E - it's not hard to figure out that certain people of certain ethic / national backgrounds - that obviously dont have access to a GP or havent registered for some reason - use A&E as a defacto GP surgery.
On the 4th time I went to the fracture clinic - there was an over abundance of nursing staff - so much so - it was almost like one of the ghost hospitals in North Korea - thats just for show - and no real patients.
That graph is meaningless - like we all seem to agree and there are so many variables - you could make it mean whatever you want it to.
This is why the politics forum isn’t worth reading using anecdotal evidence like this to back up an argument that’s been proven to be completely false.
This is why the politics forum isn’t worth reading using anecdotal evidence like this to back up an argument that’s been proven to be completely false.
Well don't read it then! Quite simple.
Croesy Blue
15-06-18, 09:22
Blaming migrants for the issues with the NHS and not the cuts is in line with blaming people on benefits and not millionaire tax dodgers for problems with the budget.
It’s fearmongering planted in the press to ensure the easily influenced don’t see the real cause. Well done if you’ve been taken in by that.
Blaming migrants for the issues with the NHS and not the cuts is in line with blaming people on benefits and not millionaire tax dodgers for problems with the budget.
It’s fearmongering planted in the press to ensure the easily influenced don’t see the real cause. Well done if you’ve been taken in by that.
Are you suggesting that an increase in population of 5.5m people over the period of the graph in the OP has not had an impact on the number of people waiting for NHS treatment??
Croesy Blue
15-06-18, 09:32
Not at all, if you read what I’ve written it’s jusf not the main cause and immigrants are certainly not the main cause. If you look at all the research done immigrants are shown to have a very small effect on the NHS.
There is no avoiding the fact that the NHS has been massively underfunded to allow the creep of the privatisation of it. The only way anyone couldn’t see this is if they’re actively avoiding seeing it.
Are you suggesting that an increase in population of 5.5m people over the period of the graph in the OP has not had an impact on the number of people waiting for NHS treatment??
The population has also aged a lot in that time. The percentage of people over 60 has increased. It's unlikely that many of those are new immigrants.
The population has also aged a lot in that time. The percentage of people over 60 has increased. It's unlikely that many of those are new immigrants.
Can you point me to where I have said that it is anything to do with immigration.
Can you point me to where I have said that it is anything to do with immigration.
"Obvious massive influx of population"
:thumbup:
Croesy Blue
15-06-18, 09:49
Can you point me to where I have said that it is anything to do with immigration.
[QUOTE=Nick;4890941]I was going to comment on the population increase over the period as well. Can't understand why anyone but the terminally stupid would look at these figures in isolation with the obvious massive influx in population.
Still, its propaganda like this that works for the stupid.
My bad - Increase in population rather than influx, which I accept infers immigration.
I have never suggested immigration is wrong or problematic.
The increase in population has impacted on the use of NHS services in the UK.
Croesy Blue
15-06-18, 09:59
My bad - Increase in population rather than influx, which I accept infers immigration.
I have never suggested immigration is wrong or problematic.
The increase in population has impacted on the use of NHS services in the UK.
Surely then a population increase is something that should be easily dealt with by whoever is in charge at the time. Increased population isn’t a valid reason it just means it being even more under funded.
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 10:28
Nick and ninianclark pair of bullshitters , note to self
Croesy did or did your wife not suffer cancer ? Yes or no because I distinctly remember sending you a pm wishing her well, if that was the case why are you taking the piss out of a potential like ending mental illness
Good old ninianclark even sent me a PM to sent to his allegedly mental health in law to raise some points after I said my stay at llandough was shocking , sounds like more smoke in the grass from a snake in the grass
Pair of bullshitters
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 10:29
[QUOTE=Nick;4891098]My bad - Increase in population rather than influx, which I accept infers immigration.
I have never suggested immigration is wrong or problematic.
You think it is though as does your mukka ninianclark
Croesy Blue
15-06-18, 10:53
Someone needs to be reminded that if you’re constantly and only using anecdotal evidence to back up your points people aren’t going to listen to you.
Nick and ninianclark pair of bullshitters , note to self
Croesy did or did your wife not suffer cancer ? Yes or no because I distinctly remember sending you a pm wishing her well, if that was the case why are you taking the piss out of a potential like ending mental illness
Good old ninianclark even sent me a PM to sent to his allegedly mental health in law to raise some points after I said my stay at llandough was shocking , sounds like more smoke in the grass from a snake in the grass
Pair of bullshitters
Sludge - I do not want to talk about my family on here. However, in this instance i will confirm that, thankfully, my wife has never suffered with cancer. You must be mistaking me for somebody else I'm afraid.
Can you also please guide me to where I am "taking the piss", in your words of any mental health issues????
[QUOTE=Nick;4891098]My bad - Increase in population rather than influx, which I accept infers immigration.
I have never suggested immigration is wrong or problematic.
You think it is though as does your mukka ninianclark
You know what I think now do you????
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 11:18
Sludge - I do not want to talk about my family on here. However, in this instance i will confirm that, thankfully, my wife has never suffered with cancer. You must be mistaking me for somebody else I'm afraid.
Can you also please guide me to where I am "taking the piss", in your words of any mental health issues????
Your wife never suffered ? Well that makes your comments ........at least I have never been sectioned .......knowing I have .......even the more distasteful .....as several people said so during the time
You want to discuss it any further you know where you can find me , use the pm facility
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 11:18
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;4891113]
You know what I think now do you????
Yes , you're a small minded cretin
Your wife never suffered ? Well that makes your comments at least I have never been sectioned .......knowing I have .......even the more distasteful .....as several people did during the time
You want to discuss it any further you know where you can find me , use the pm facility
Can you also please guide me to where I am "taking the piss", in your words of any mental health issues???? I am lost on this - where have I mentioned you being sectioned???????????
[QUOTE=Nick;4891120]
Yes , you're a small minded cretin
Try to keep it civil, Sludge.
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 11:24
Can you also please guide me to where I am "taking the piss", in your words of any mental health issues???? I am lost on this - where have I mentioned you being sectioned???????????
You know you did , you said at least I have never been sectioned, then went very quiet as several people said ......classy ......I ignored it
But when you continue to spout shite you gotta have the truth
Deny it as much as you want , I know what you are
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 11:26
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;4891125]
Try to keep it civil, Sludge.
Now that is ironic coming from a **** who mentions at least I haven't been sectioned to
someone who who been through it
Keep it civil to a **** ? Bollocks
You know you did , you said at least I have never been sectioned, then went very quiet as several people said ......classy ......I ignored it
But when you continue to spout shite you gotta have the truth
Deny it as much as you want , I know what you are
When did I say that? Can you please show me as I do not have a clue what you are on about.
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 11:39
When did I say that? Can you please show me as I do not have a clue what you are on about.
You said it , you know you said it , others even commented on the thread , stop wasting my time and go and have a cup of tea
SLUDGE FACTORY
15-06-18, 11:55
You really are off your cake
1. A close family member works in the (brand new) facility for mental health at llandough. I did pass on your concerns to her. However , after what I was told, they have much bigger concerns at the Bridgend childrens facility though. Llandough in comparison is a 100 times better.
2. I sent you a PM previously to prove that a relative of mine was on the mental health board and was getting 30k (in 2009) to attend 1 meeting a month - something I said was shocking - and something that you said was BS. She has since retired after her MBE and the 30k a year top up is no longer in operation.
As you were.
The new facility , well six years old , is poor and staff know this , my contact speaks to me about it every week .........mental health facilities were far better when our area was covered by Bridgend , your close family member is either making it up or towing the party line as llandough is crap and provides fewer beds than Whitchurch used to as for the old biddy don't remember that conversation , send me the pm again
By contact I mean community nurse
Croesy Blue
15-06-18, 12:36
Availability heuristic Sums him up perfectly
Auntie Andy
15-06-18, 13:06
The new facility , well six years old , is poor and staff know this , my contact speaks to me about it every week .........mental health facilities were far better when our area was covered by Bridgend , your close family member is either making it up or towing the party line as llandough is crap and provides fewer beds than Whitchurch used to as for the old biddy don't remember that conversation , send me the pm again
By contact I mean community nurse
Ninian ifyouvegotadogivegotabiggerone Clark is the one off his cake NQAT
And whatever you do don’t ask him to send you a PM :facepalm:
Auntie Andy
15-06-18, 15:29
Sludge - You have mail
:hehe::hehe::hehe:
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