Brexit thread

[CardiffIrish2]

To quote Vyvian from the young ones in the Bambi episode ‘I’m completely bloody sick of this’ in regards to USA politics.

We’ve got this impending disaster/salivation depending on your viewpoint less then 5 months away.

Watching Yvette Cooper yesterday in Parlimentary select committee made me realise Labour missed an opportunity not electing her leader as I think they’d be miles ahead in polls.

Basically she was questioning the lack of planning at Border control. Which is highly ironic on the part of the Govt and leavers as Brexit was supposed to be about taking control of borders......

[Wales-Bales]

I actually that hope we remain in the EU, I couldn't think of a more fitting reward for all of the lefties on here. We should just capitulate, join the single currency and European army, etc.. Just do whatever they want :thumbup:

[lardy]

The lack of planning everywhere is incredibly disturbing, but it will probably be visible most quickly at the ports.

[CardiffIrish2]

I actually that hope we remain in the EU, I couldn't think of a more fitting reward for all of the lefties on here. We should just capitulate, join the single currency and European army, etc.. Just do whatever they want :thumbup:

zzzzzzz......

[CardiffIrish2]

The lack of planning everywhere is incredibly disturbing, but it will probably be visible most quickly at the ports.

Shocking isn’t it? Every day something is in the news which makes me think ‘what the ****??’

[cyril evans awaydays]

To quote Vyvian from the young ones in the Bambi episode ‘I’m completely bloody sick of this’ in regards to USA politics.

We’ve got this impending disaster/salivation depending on your viewpoint less then 5 months away.

Watching Yvette Cooper yesterday in Parlimentary select committee made me realise Labour missed an opportunity not electing her leader as I think they’d be miles ahead in polls.

Basically she was questioning the lack of planning at Border control. Which is highly ironic on the part of the Govt and leavers as Brexit was supposed to be about taking control of borders......

If you want to dig a little deeper on where we are and where we might be headed then some of Ivan Rogers's recent speeches are intelligent and thought provoking without being weighed down by dogma.

http://www.britishirishchamber.com/2018/09/07/sir-mark-ivan-rogers-kcmg-speech-at-british-irish-chamber-of-commerce-annual-gala-dinner/

[Eric Cartman]

I actually that hope we remain in the EU, I couldn't think of a more fitting reward for all of the lefties on here. We should just capitulate, join the single currency and European army, etc.. Just do whatever they want :thumbup:

I don't even know where to start with this rubbish

[Wales-Bales]

I don't even know where to start with this rubbish
I've just described your European wet dream, and I sincerely hope is comes to pass :thumbup:

[Eric Cartman]

I've just described your European wet dream, and I sincerely hope is comes to pass :thumbup:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Organ Morgan.]

Shameless Remainers out in force again desperately hoping that the referendum vote is usurped by any means necessary.

[CardiffIrish2]

Shameless Remainers out in force again desperately hoping that the referendum vote is usurped by any means necessary.


Don’t think I said that in my original message.
I think as we head towards your utopia I do find it hard to believe that we have a PM refusing to guarantee medical supplies in terms of a no deal Brexit.

Still Brexit means Brexit and it’s one in the eye for Liberal elites like myself eh?

[Eric Cartman]

Shameless Remainers out in force again desperately hoping that the referendum vote is usurped by any means necessary.

'Any means necessary' is a bit melodramatic, they want another vote as they think public opinion might have changed as new information has been brought to people's attention.

[Rjk]

Shameless Remainers out in force again desperately hoping that the referendum vote is usurped by any means necessary.

Why should there be any shame in wanting to remain in the EU?

[Rjk]

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/barclays-seeking-to-move-250bn-business-to-republic-ahead-of-brexit-1.3680943?mode=amp

This seems like a lot of business to lose

[Eric Cartman]

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/barclays-seeking-to-move-250bn-business-to-republic-ahead-of-brexit-1.3680943?mode=amp

This seems like a lot of business to lose

Project fear, stop it

[Wales-Bales]

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Oh yes I do, and if we ever manage to Brexit I hope the government will slash the number of useless civil servants, especially those who expect me to pay for their fecking travelling time!

[Rjk]

Oh yes I do, and if we ever manage to Brexit I hope the government will slash the number of useless civil servants, especially those who expect me to pay for their fecking travelling time!

What would that have to do with Brexit? We could do that now if we were stupid enough to follow through on populist right wing ideas

[Eric Cartman]

Oh yes I do, and if we ever manage to Brexit I hope the government will slash the number of useless civil servants, especially those who expect me to pay for their fecking travelling time!

Have you seen Split, the film with James McAvoy?

[Eric Cartman]

What would that have to do with Brexit? We could do that now if we were stupid enough to follow through on populist right wing ideas

You would have to be pretty short on brain cells to not realise that Brexit done 'well' means more civil servants and more travelling.

[life on mars]

What's the view on these excessive wages and pensions , I note its fashionable to bash CEO's :

Jean-Claude Juncker, 61, President of the European Commission
Salary: £245,629 plus a residential allowance of £36,844 and a monthly expense allowance of £1,135. Pension of £52,500 for life from age 65.

Donald Tusk, 59, President of the European Council
Salary: £235,000 a year plus allowances and pension.

Martin Schulz, 60, President of the European Parliament
Salary: £227,000 plus allowances and pension.

Mario Draghi, 68, President of the European Central Bank
Salary: £279,576 plus allowances and pension.

Federica Mogherini, 42, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (informally known as the EU foreign minister)
Salary: £215,000 plus allowances and pension.

Jonathan Hill, 55, One of 28 EU Commissioners
Salary: £195,000 plus allowances and pension.

The standard monthly payment for all MEPs is 7,957 euros (£6,537). It is roughly on a par with a British MP's salary, but when the pound is weak, MEPs earn more than MPs. MEPs also get a flat-rate monthly allowance of 4,299 euros to cover office expenses, such as office rent, phone bills and computer equipment.

The EU is trying to over-charge Britain for its share of Eurocrats' pensions to the tune of €7bn (£6.2bn), it has been claimed, even as European capitals continue to squeeze the UK over the so-called Brexit bill.

British Brexit negotiators are questioning EU calculations over the size of pension liabilities - listed as some €67bn in the EU accounts - of which the UK share would be around €11bn on the point of exit.

[CardiffIrish2]

What's the view on these excessive wages and pensions , I note its fashionable to bash CEO's :

Jean-Claude Juncker, 61, President of the European Commission
Salary: £245,629 plus a residential allowance of £36,844 and a monthly expense allowance of £1,135. Pension of £52,500 for life from age 65.

Donald Tusk, 59, President of the European Council
Salary: £235,000 a year plus allowances and pension.

Martin Schulz, 60, President of the European Parliament
Salary: £227,000 plus allowances and pension.

Mario Draghi, 68, President of the European Central Bank
Salary: £279,576 plus allowances and pension.

Federica Mogherini, 42, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (informally known as the EU foreign minister)
Salary: £215,000 plus allowances and pension.

Jonathan Hill, 55, One of 28 EU Commissioners
Salary: £195,000 plus allowances and pension.

The standard monthly payment for all MEPs is 7,957 euros (£6,537). It is roughly on a par with a British MP's salary, but when the pound is weak, MEPs earn more than MPs. MEPs also get a flat-rate monthly allowance of 4,299 euros to cover office expenses, such as office rent, phone bills and computer equipment.

The EU is trying to over-charge Britain for its share of Eurocrats' pensions to the tune of €7bn (£6.2bn), it has been claimed, even as European capitals continue to squeeze the UK over the so-called Brexit bill.

British Brexit negotiators are questioning EU calculations over the size of pension liabilities - listed as some €67bn in the EU accounts - of which the UK share would be around €11bn on the point of exit.


The salaries are high no doubt .

It’s worth pointing out though and hate to answer a question with a question but do you think Liam ‘trade deal easiest in history’ David ‘we hold the cards’ Davis before buggering off having achieved nothing, Boris Matheus can go whistle’ Johnson before again buggering off have served us well with the wages they’re on?

What we you say about Barnier he’s done his job in a professional manner representing his members without resorting to shit analogies and lies just to appeal to the right wing press.

The Brexit negotiators have been giving it the big come on then if you’re hard enough before looking rather silly and the reputation of the UK has been damaged by this costly farce with each week which has cost us far more then the ‘Eurocrats’ (copyright any crap Sun headline) wages.

I can’t remember anything about ‘adequate’ food supplies on the side of a red bus can you?

[Eric Cartman]

What's the view on these excessive wages and pensions , I note its fashionable to bash CEO's :

Jean-Claude Juncker, 61, President of the European Commission
Salary: £245,629 plus a residential allowance of £36,844 and a monthly expense allowance of £1,135. Pension of £52,500 for life from age 65.

Donald Tusk, 59, President of the European Council
Salary: £235,000 a year plus allowances and pension.

Martin Schulz, 60, President of the European Parliament
Salary: £227,000 plus allowances and pension.

Mario Draghi, 68, President of the European Central Bank
Salary: £279,576 plus allowances and pension.

Federica Mogherini, 42, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (informally known as the EU foreign minister)
Salary: £215,000 plus allowances and pension.

Jonathan Hill, 55, One of 28 EU Commissioners
Salary: £195,000 plus allowances and pension.

The standard monthly payment for all MEPs is 7,957 euros (£6,537). It is roughly on a par with a British MP's salary, but when the pound is weak, MEPs earn more than MPs. MEPs also get a flat-rate monthly allowance of 4,299 euros to cover office expenses, such as office rent, phone bills and computer equipment.

The EU is trying to over-charge Britain for its share of Eurocrats' pensions to the tune of €7bn (£6.2bn), it has been claimed, even as European capitals continue to squeeze the UK over the so-called Brexit bill.

British Brexit negotiators are questioning EU calculations over the size of pension liabilities - listed as some €67bn in the EU accounts - of which the UK share would be around €11bn on the point of exit.

On the high side but that is from the perspective of somebody who lives in a country which has seen a real terms wage decrease/stagnation (depending on what figures you believe) for at least 10 years.

Conflating a 240k salary with criticisms of corporate greed over CEOs that take home £10s of millions while their companies are in decline is a bit mad.

[cyril evans awaydays]

It was probably easier to post the link to the Daily Telegraph article on which the argument that after a couple of years negotiation we are suddenly quibbling about the pension liabilities as part of our financial settlement in the Withdrawal Agreement.

I am sure I heard from Theresa May that we were 95% there on the Withdrawal Agreement. If this has suddenly become an issue I presume we have the negotiating power to dig our heels in. Perhaps this is one of the reasons our well-paid negotiator Dominic Raab sent a letter stating that a deal would be made by 21 November and then had to do a U turn hours later. Any difference between his and Barnier's salary is probably a competence bonus.

In terms of the leading question, what's my view on these excessive wages, they are relatively high for public servants but definitely very low for CEOs and other senior directors who are managing similar sized organisations often with less complexity. Here are the salaries of the directors of Carillion as an example.

https://news.sky.com/story/carillion-collapse-the-fat-cats-in-the-frame-over-contractors-failure-11209838

[blue matt]

I actually that hope we remain in the EU, I couldn't think of a more fitting reward for all of the lefties on here. We should just capitulate, join the single currency and European army, etc.. Just do whatever they want :thumbup:

Dont give up :thumbup:

we can have a vote and decide again

then if they dont get the right vote, we can vote till they do :angry:

[Eric Cartman]

Dont give up :thumbup:

we can have a vote and decide again

then if they dont get the right vote, we can vote till they do :angry:

You realise that the vote isnt random right? If remain wins a second vote then it means people have changed their mind, it is called democracy.

If you are one of these Brexiteers who would want to leave even if the public no longer want to then you are no better than a remainer who wants to stay by 'any means necessary'.

The leave campaign promised something undeliverable and there is no getting away from that.

[the other bob wilson]

Dont give up :thumbup:

we can have a vote and decide again

then if they dont get the right vote, we can vote till they do :angry:

Much like what happened when the original vote from the seventies was overturned then. It amuses me when Leavers say democracy should be respected following the referendum, when there had been politicians, business people and men and women working in the media who had been banging on about having another vote on Europe for the last three or four decades - Nigel Farage even said that he would campaign for another vote if the outcome in 2016 had been 52/48 in favour of remain.

[the other bob wilson]

It was probably easier to post the link to the Daily Telegraph article on which the argument that after a couple of years negotiation we are suddenly quibbling about the pension liabilities as part of our financial settlement in the Withdrawal Agreement.

I am sure I heard from Theresa May that we were 95% there on the Withdrawal Agreement. If this has suddenly become an issue I presume we have the negotiating power to dig our heels in. Perhaps this is one of the reasons our well-paid negotiator Dominic Raab sent a letter stating that a deal would be made by 21 November and then had to do a U turn hours later. Any difference between his and Barnier's salary is probably a competence bonus.

In terms of the leading question, what's my view on these excessive wages, they are relatively high for public servants but definitely very low for CEOs and other senior directors who are managing similar sized organisations often with less complexity. Here are the salaries of the directors of Carillion as an example.

https://news.sky.com/story/carillion-collapse-the-fat-cats-in-the-frame-over-contractors-failure-11209838

Exactly what I thought when reading about those salaries - they are big (too big in my view), but they look quite modest when compared to some in the private sector.

[Eric Cartman]

It was probably easier to post the link to the Daily Telegraph article on which the argument that after a couple of years negotiation we are suddenly quibbling about the pension liabilities as part of our financial settlement in the Withdrawal Agreement.

I am sure I heard from Theresa May that we were 95% there on the Withdrawal Agreement. If this has suddenly become an issue I presume we have the negotiating power to dig our heels in. Perhaps this is one of the reasons our well-paid negotiator Dominic Raab sent a letter stating that a deal would be made by 21 November and then had to do a U turn hours later. Any difference between his and Barnier's salary is probably a competence bonus.

In terms of the leading question, what's my view on these excessive wages, they are relatively high for public servants but definitely very low for CEOs and other senior directors who are managing similar sized organisations often with less complexity. Here are the salaries of the directors of Carillion as an example.

https://news.sky.com/story/carillion-collapse-the-fat-cats-in-the-frame-over-contractors-failure-11209838

This is one of the blatant hypocrisies of modern day UK politics and the public isn't switched on enough to see through it.

The same people who criticise high senior level public sector pay, defend high private sector pay even when the companies in question rely primarily on public contracts.

The kind of crappy monopolising privatisation that our government's appear to love blurs these lines to the point where they are impossible to distinguish

University pay is a great example, it is seen as public money (and draws a chorus of gasps when it is published) even though they are effectively run as businesses in a competitive marketplace, the kicker however is that if the kids don't go on to get good jobs Joe public covers their fee loan + some healthy interest.

[blue matt]

You realise that the vote isnt random right? If remain wins a second vote then it means people have changed their mind, it is called democracy.

If you are one of these Brexiteers who would want to leave even if the public no longer want to then you are no better than a remainer who wants to stay by 'any means necessary'.

The leave campaign promised something undeliverable and there is no getting away from that.

So if the 2nd ( or 3rd or 4th ) vote was still leave, the remainers would be happy with that and not whine about 30% of the population didnt vote, so they might not want to leave, so we should remain ?? ?

[Eric Cartman]

So if the 2nd ( or 3rd or 4th ) vote was still leave, the remainers would be happy with that and not whine about 30% of the population didnt vote, so they might not want to leave, so we should remain ?? ?

I can't speak for all people who voted remain but a vote on the deal makes sense to me given how turbulent the negotiations have been compared to how the public were told they would be.

A second vote also puts to bed your final point, if people don't vote after knowing how close it is then they clearly dont care. I would imagine there were remainers and leavers who were convinced not to vote by polls that suggested a clear win for remain so a second vote would give a clearer picture all round.

I would then be in favour of following the public's choice. At the moment we don't know what the public's choice is. It certainly isn't chequers, I don't think people want a no deal (although I would prefer that to a half way solution like chequers).

The main logical criticism of a 2nd vote is really simple but not somewhere Brexiteers want to go because it smears then as much as anyone else. The public is still horribly uninformed about brexit, they don't know what any of the outcomes entail. They don't even know what no deal means ( and we would obviously need a clear picture of what remaining means too for the vote to be legitimate)

[Eric Cartman]

Popcorn time.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1057970368005226496

[life on mars]

Never mind the salaries the pension liability is my concern ,which goes way beyond salary earnings

It was one of the very first discussion points placed on the table in front of the UK , not Trade, not the Irish Border,Free movement, nope what will the UK contribute as part of their CONTINUED pension liability .

I just can't imagine ,certain political minded folk accepting this , if it was a fat cat banker ,rich old Tory , some old rich capitalist ( and rightly so )

We should be even handed with all excessive spends ,especially when its tax payers money ,funding them .

My battle bus would have shown the incredible liability of wages , buildings , pensions to the ordinary tax payers in Europe :
32 thousand people plus expenses ( I bet not many on minimum wage)
EU's total pension liabilities are £35.8 billion
€1.756 billion euros per year running costs .

Now there's a real socialist battle ground argument to be had , and one I'd enjoy AND SUPPORT ???

[Wales-Bales]

Never mind the salaries the pension liability is my concern ,which goes way beyond salary earnings

It was one of the very first discussion points placed on the table in front of the UK , not Trade, not the Irish Border,Free movement, nope what will the UK contribute as part of their CONTINUED pension liability .

I just can't imagine ,certain political minded folk accepting this , if it was a fat cat banker ,rich old Tory , some old rich capitalist ( and rightly so )

We should be even handed with all excessive spends ,especially when its tax payers money ,funding them .

My battle bus would have shown the incredible liability of wages , buildings , pensions to the ordinary tax payers in Europe :
32 thousand people plus expenses ( I bet not many on minimum wage)
EU's total pension liabilities are £35.8 billion
€1.756 billion euros per year running costs .

Now there's a real socialist battle ground argument to be had , and one I'd enjoy AND SUPPORT ???
Finally somebody talking about the real issues, as opposed to project fear.

[Rjk]

Finally somebody talking about the real issues, as opposed to project fear.

There are 32 thousand civil servants working in the EU then? Seems reasonable, how many are there in the UK?
The EU civil service salaries takes up 3% of their total budget

[CardiffIrish2]

I read today that the Royal college of Nursing, British medical association and the Royal College of Midwives are against Brexit.

Then you have Nigel Farage, Arron Banks Boris Johnson and Liam Fox.

Says it all for me.

[Eric Cartman]

Never mind the salaries the pension liability is my concern ,which goes way beyond salary earnings

It was one of the very first discussion points placed on the table in front of the UK , not Trade, not the Irish Border,Free movement, nope what will the UK contribute as part of their CONTINUED pension liability .

I just can't imagine ,certain political minded folk accepting this , if it was a fat cat banker ,rich old Tory , some old rich capitalist ( and rightly so )

We should be even handed with all excessive spends ,especially when its tax payers money ,funding them .

My battle bus would have shown the incredible liability of wages , buildings , pensions to the ordinary tax payers in Europe :
32 thousand people plus expenses ( I bet not many on minimum wage)
EU's total pension liabilities are £35.8 billion
€1.756 billion euros per year running costs .

Now there's a real socialist battle ground argument to be had , and one I'd enjoy AND SUPPORT ???

Are you annoyed about our cut or the absolute level?

If it is the former then surely this is just a sum and part of the negotiation and if it is the latter then you should have raised it years ago...

Did you think it would be cheap to run a supranational organisation that does our bidding around the world???

[Eric Cartman]

I read today that the Royal college of Nursing, British medical association and the Royal College of Midwives are against Brexit.

Then you have Nigel Farage, Arron Banks Boris Johnson and Liam Fox.

Says it all for me.

The fact that Brexiteers have no problem being intrinsically associated with Mr Banks says a lot.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Never mind the salaries the pension liability is my concern ,which goes way beyond salary earnings

It was one of the very first discussion points placed on the table in front of the UK , not Trade, not the Irish Border,Free movement, nope what will the UK contribute as part of their CONTINUED pension liability .

I just can't imagine ,certain political minded folk accepting this , if it was a fat cat banker ,rich old Tory , some old rich capitalist ( and rightly so )

We should be even handed with all excessive spends ,especially when its tax payers money ,funding them .

My battle bus would have shown the incredible liability of wages , buildings , pensions to the ordinary tax payers in Europe :
32 thousand people plus expenses ( I bet not many on minimum wage)
EU's total pension liabilities are £35.8 billion
€1.756 billion euros per year running costs .

Now there's a real socialist battle ground argument to be had , and one I'd enjoy AND SUPPORT ???

I know it might sound strange but the the amount of financial liability we agree to pay the EU is pretty minor in terms of the issues we have in leaving.

Once we triggered Article 50 to leave the EU within two years we seemed a little surprised about what happened next. Some thought that this would trigger the negotiation of the easiest trade deal with EU in history.

Unfortunately the EU had different ideas. They proposed and we bowed down to a sequential negotiation where we first agreed a withdrawal agreement before moving to an agreement of the future relationship once we have left on 29th March 2019.

The withdrawal agreement needed to cover at the least three key points around the status of citizens post withdrawal, the treatment of the Irish Border and the net financial contributions the UK would make for its assets and liabilities.

In December 2017 Theresa May came back from Brussels in triumph that she had agreed with an EU on these points allowing discussions around future trade relationships to commence. The agreement included the level of financial commitment we would make, INCLUDING PENSIONS, and a backstop on the island of Ireland.

Since then the UK recognised that it needed more time to negotiate its future relationship and the EU agreed a transitional period where from March 2019 for 21 months to 31st December 2020 where for all intents and purposes we will take EU rules, have no say in them and pay more for the privilege.

We finally presented the Chequers proposal that has been rejected by most sides within the UK and without. The aim now in the time remaining of Article 50 to conclude the withdrawal agreement, including the Irish backstop which since we signed up to in December 2017 has been in some dispute and enter into a political agreement on our future relationship that all can be agreed by the Conservative Party, Parliament the EU its 27 remaining member states and its Parliament before we officially leave on 29th March.

If we don't we leave with no deal with all that entails. The good this from your point of view is that is that if that happens then we don't pay any contributions for pension provisions. Sounds great when you put like that I guess!!

[Eric Cartman]

'No deal is better than a bad deal' appears to have become 'come on guys please, this bad deal is better than no deal'.

Rhetoric meets reality.

[Rjk]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-11-09/you-do-the-math-can-may-get-her-brexit-deal-through-parliament?__twitter_impression=true

This article sums up May's issues quite nicely

[cyril evans awaydays]

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-11-09/you-do-the-math-can-may-get-her-brexit-deal-through-parliament?__twitter_impression=true

This article sums up May's issues quite nicely

Good analysis around the UK's negotiations with itself. However, no sooner do you post something on this subject that the mathematics (math ffs) change. Now around 84 loyalists after Jo Johnson resigns!

[Wales-Bales]

'No deal is better than a bad deal' appears to have become 'come on guys please, this bad deal is better than no deal'.

Rhetoric meets reality.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dr827WeW4AI9d0V.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-l5FyA3pgo

[life on mars]

It doesnt matter what May delivers or agrees as her opponent's will not under any circumstance support or vote for any deal , as their real goal is power , bugger the people , or the effects of Brexit upon them ,I'm still waiting to see there detailed alternative plan .

We are just used as a political football.

[lardy]

It doesnt matter what May delivers or agrees as her opponent's will not under any circumstance support or vote for any deal , as their real goal is power , bugger the people , or the effects of Brexit upon them ,I'm still waiting to see there detailed alternative plan .

We are just used as a political football.

For a labour voter you sure do love May and dislike labour.

[CardiffIrish2]

It doesnt matter what May delivers or agrees as her opponent's will not under any circumstance support or vote for any deal , as their real goal is power , bugger the people , or the effects of Brexit upon them ,I'm still waiting to see there detailed alternative plan .

We are just used as a political football.

We were used as a political foootball when call me Dave called an unnecessary referendum as he was scared of Nigel and the Daily Mail and wanted to prove what a tough guy he was
Before buggering off.

So I think some of your anger should be thrown in the way of the old Etonian pig shagger

[Wales-Bales]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Vhv6Ys5UI

[Organ Morgan.]

May on the edge.

Laura Kuenssberg
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Senior tory tells me Brexiteer anger so high that seems likely there will be a call for no confidence vote tomorrow - letters going in -

10:09 AM - 14 Nov 2018 https://twitter.com/bbclaurak

[Eric Cartman]

It doesnt matter what May delivers or agrees as her opponent's will not under any circumstance support or vote for any deal , as their real goal is power , bugger the people , or the effects of Brexit upon them ,I'm still waiting to see there detailed alternative plan .

We are just used as a political football.

Great summary, the only incey wincey hole in it is that the majority of the groups openly opposed to this deal already have power - remainer tories, erg, dup, scottish tories :facepalm:

This isn't about power. It is about taking this supposed mandate and delivering something that absolutely nobody wanted in the name of compromise. She was told at the very start that it was stupid, she told us to trust her because she is a fantastic negotiator and now 2.5 years after the vote she is in a dark room trying to convince even her feckin pals to support it. Tomorrow once she has threatened them into submission she will have to start working on the people who don't like her.

[Wales-Bales]

I think this is what Bone was alluding to

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/brussels-leverage-leak-makes-life-even-more-difficult-for-theresa-may/

[life on mars]

To quote Vyvian from the young ones in the Bambi episode ‘I’m completely bloody sick of this’ in regards to USA politics.

We’ve got this impending disaster/salivation depending on your viewpoint less then 5 months away.

Watching Yvette Cooper yesterday in Parlimentary select committee made me realise Labour missed an opportunity not electing her leader as I think they’d be miles ahead in polls.

Basically she was questioning the lack of planning at Border control. Which is highly ironic on the part of the Govt and leavers as Brexit was supposed to be about taking control of borders......

And there for me personally lies the problem, for Labour .

Yvette Cooper would romp into power ,however like a lot of good Labour MP's they have been marginalised and viewed as a sort of centralist 'who may have smiled at Blair at some point in thier lives, therefore becoming not required as leaders or front bench politicians, who should be tearing these Tories apart ,she is one of many good socialists , lost to us , and unfortunately stopping Labour becoming a powerful force .

[CardiffIrish2]

So what will today bring?

Part of me wishes this deal goes through as it at least prevents the shit storm of queues at the borders to get trade through.

[the other bob wilson]

And there for me personally lies the problem, for Labour .

Yvette Cooper would romp into power ,however like a lot of good Labour MP's they have been marginalised and viewed as a sort of centralist 'who may have smiled at Blair at some point in thier lives, therefore becoming not required as leaders or front bench politicians, who should be tearing these Tories apart ,she is one of many good socialists , lost to us , and unfortunately stopping Labour becoming a powerful force .

I would add the words "through her attachment to New Labour" after "she is one of many good socialists , lost to us".

To repeat what I posted on the other board a while ago;-

"I've not paid too much attention to what's in this 500 page document yet, but doesn't the response to it so far show the idiocy of just having a yes or no question on the 2016 Referendum ballot paper? It's just showing that there were so many different versions of Brexit covered in the total Leave vote - there will be some who are happy to proceed with it, but others who will be convinced it's a sell out and, to quote a phrase I've heard used quite often in the last twenty four hours, the worst of all worlds, yet they are all supposed to be on the same side!"

[cyril evans awaydays]

Raab sees exit. Who will be next? One minute he is confessing he didn't realise the volume of trade through Dover and the next minute he is resigning, presumably to support a no deal whose consequences are likely to turn southern Kent into a lorry park.

[life on mars]

Great summary, the only incey wincey hole in it is that the majority of the groups openly opposed to this deal already have power - remainer tories, erg, dup, scottish tories :facepalm:

This isn't about power. It is about taking this supposed mandate and delivering something that absolutely nobody wanted in the name of compromise. She was told at the very start that it was stupid, she told us to trust her because she is a fantastic negotiator and now 2.5 years after the vote she is in a dark room trying to convince even her feckin pals to support it. Tomorrow once she has threatened them into submission she will have to start working on the people who don't like her.

I would have hated to take up this mantle up , as there is no win .

The deal was always going to be one of compromise , and when the vote was made had not idea of what they were really voting for , or voted for a single issue or two .

I still think this issue is being used as a political battle in every quarter ,in every party ,and all of the parties are vying for a popular vote ,trouble is the country is split down the middle as is the parties .

I'm guessing those very parties are rubbing their hands in glee , with a no vote on the deal approaching , if that happens I'm hopping the main opposition parties come forward with their version of the deal to put it right ( part of me believes they don't have one, or do any better with regards to getting a deal, accepting to all )

I think folk should realise there is no good news on this one or golden opportunity.

[the other bob wilson]

Three resignations by 10 am - after all of the months of inertia things are certainly happening!

[Wales-Bales]

And there for me personally lies the problem, for Labour .

Yvette Cooper would romp into power ,however like a lot of good Labour MP's they have been marginalised and viewed as a sort of centralist 'who may have smiled at Blair at some point in thier lives, therefore becoming not required as leaders or front bench politicians, who should be tearing these Tories apart ,she is one of many good socialists , lost to us , and unfortunately stopping Labour becoming a powerful force .
Yvette Cooper is a Blairite.

[Wales-Bales]

Raab sees exit. Who will be next? One minute he is confessing he didn't realise the volume of trade through Dover and the next minute he is resigning, presumably to support a no deal whose consequences are likely to turn southern Kent into a lorry park.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsCCFl_WoAEEyJi.jpg

[Wales-Bales]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsCUgcyWoAAN-s5.jpg

[CardiffIrish2]

Yvette Cooper is a Blairite.

So? She’s very good at holding the govt to account as the committee meetings show.

[the other bob wilson]

Daniel Norcross on The Cricket Social just now - will the Sri Lankan innings last longer than the current government?:hehe:

[Wales-Bales]

So? She’s very good at holding the govt to account as the committee meetings show.
It's all smoke and mirrors, Blairites are Tory-light globalists. They are David Cameron with a red rosette.

[CardiffIrish2]

It's all smoke and mirrors, Blairites are Tory-light globalists. They are David Cameron with a red rosette.

Thanks for that I feel so educated.

Honest.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I would have hated to take up this mantle up , as there is no win .

The deal was always going to be one of compromise , and when the vote was made had not idea of what they were really voting for , or voted for a single issue or two .

I still think this issue is being used as a political battle in every quarter ,in every party ,and all of the parties are vying for a popular vote ,trouble is the country is split down the middle as is the parties .

I'm guessing those very parties are rubbing their hands in glee , with a no vote on the deal approaching , if that happens I'm hopping the main opposition parties come forward with their version of the deal to put it right ( part of me believes they don't have one, or do any better with regards to getting a deal, accepting to all )

I think folk should realise there is no good news on this one or golden opportunity.

Well you would have hated to take up the mantle but Theresa May certainly barged her way to the front of the queue when the opportunity arose.

She then almost single handedly initiated and executed the worst election campaign in living memory when you look at the poll lead she frittered away and the weakness that introduced by having to rely upon a minority party.

She then painted a load of unnecessary red lines that appeased the hard Brexiteers but handcuffed negotiators and looked even weaker when these red lines were softened. Its difficult to remember that pre and post referendum a range of options what Brexit could be were being articulated by the same Tory ministers and backbenchers who now are filleting May for negotiating one they don't like.

To give her credit she seems to be driven by a sense of duty. She has survived this far mainly due to the cowardice of other Tories who would rather criticise and undermine but didn't have the guts to put themselves forward as alternatives when they knew they would have to pick up responsibility for a crock of shit.

Labour at one level has been little better as aside from a clearer commitment to being in a Customs Union it won't/can't articulate a clear vision that keeps its party/members/voters aligned. However where I disagree with your attempt to spread blame is that it is the duty of HM Opposition to oppose. The six tests, impossible as they are to achieve, are all promisory notes made to voters mainly by Tory Brexiteers or government.

The best way to get Labour to come clean on its vision for Brexit/not Brexit is via the ballot box where they will be forced to set this out in a way that there is no compelling need in opposition.

[Wales-Bales]

Thanks for that I feel so educated.

Honest.
You're welcome, now support a proper Labour candidate!

[Wales-Bales]

Well you would have hated to take up the mantle but Theresa May certainly barged her way to the front of the queue when the opportunity arose.

She then almost single handedly initiated and executed the worst election campaign in living memory when you look at the poll lead she frittered away and the weakness that introduced by having to rely upon a minority party.

She then painted a load of unnecessary red lines that appeased the hard Brexiteers but handcuffed negotiators and looked even weaker when these red lines were softened. Its difficult to remember that pre and post referendum a range of options what Brexit could be were being articulated by the same Tory ministers and backbenchers who now are filleting May for negotiating one they don't like.

To give her credit she seems to be driven by a sense of duty. She has survived this far mainly due to the cowardice of other Tories who would rather criticise and undermine but didn't have the guts to put themselves forward as alternatives when they knew they would have to pick up responsibility for a crock of shit.
I am quite pleased with how well all of my predictions turned out :biggrin:

[cyril evans awaydays]

Thanks for that I feel so educated.

Honest.

There is some reasonable debate taking place in this thread interspersed with the odd, and I mean odd, picture of european leaders with cupped hands over their mouths and you tube video presumably meant to signify some secret plot for the UK to remain in the EU. Alternatively a bit of predictable name calling that could annoy those on record of disparaging those who shoot the messenger rather than being able to articulate why they are disagreement with the message.

It's almost like triviality and the inability to articulate a rational argument was a prerequisite for Mensa membership these days!

[cyril evans awaydays]

I am quite pleased with how well all of my predictions turned out :biggrin:

It would be far too easy to ask you to produce a scintilla of evidence to support this assertion so it would be easier on my keyboard to say "Well done you"!

[Wales-Bales]

It would be far too easy to ask you to produce a scintilla of evidence to support this assertion so it would be easier on my keyboard to say "Well done you"!
Well, it took us two years to get where I said we would be, so that had to be the plan all along.

[Wales-Bales]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsCQI1yXgAArQpW.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsCQI1xWsAIy_o7.jpg

[Wales-Bales]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsCV3sMX0AIdKms.jpg

[Carl Dale's Mole]

Riveting stuff. First time watching a parliamentary session for two hours straight.

I feel a little sorry for May. She's trapped and there's **** all she can do about it . Not going down without a fight.

I agreed with her saying too many MPs are talking about what they wish would happen (second vote) rather than what is happening (brexit).

[blue matt]

Riveting stuff. First time watching a parliamentary session for two hours straight.

I feel a little sorry for May. She's trapped and there's **** all she can do about it . Not going down without a fight.

I agreed with her saying too many MPs are talking about what they wish would happen (second vote) rather than what is happening (brexit).

How many MP's asked for a " peoples vote " even after she had said No plenty of times, it was worse than a primary school debating club

Fair play, she played with a straight bat with that

[Wales-Bales]

How many MP's asked for a " peoples vote " even after she had said No plenty of times, it was worse than a primary school debating club

Fair play, she played with a straight bat with that
We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

[cyril evans awaydays]

We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

Not sure that your definition of the role of our sovereign Parliament is factually correct but there is a reasonable argument that the government and elected representatives should implement the outcome of the advisory referendum.

Out of interest what do you see as the will of the people? Is it the agreement that the government has negotiated with the EU or do you want something different?

[Eric Cartman]

We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

A deal that satisfies are brexit voters is clearly impossible so you must mean no withdrawal deal. Is that your position? (Same question to any Brexiteers)

[Rjk]

We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

Is another vote somehow less representative of the will of the people?

[life on mars]

Yvette Cooper is a Blairite.



See my comment

[Organ Morgan.]

There's around 120 MPs out of a total of 650 and a dozen or so peers from 700+ who are pro-Brexit, so circa 10% of lawmakers, the political class, want to implement the will of the majority who voted in the referendum.

[life on mars]

We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

But the will of the people is a scatted will, and in most cases was a single point they wanted , some wanted just farming changed , ,some wanted just fisheries dealt ,with some wanted less European labour,some wanted law independence , some wanted to save billions what no one saw coming was the Irish border issue , this is a 40 year association,how anyone thought you just leave without pain is beyond me .

The best comment today was a Labour politician saying the government should move aside and " let us negotiate the deal ",do they really think their would be a different stance from the European commission ,because it was a different face ,their position is there position,unless Labour would concede more ,which is highly unlikely as they too are split within its own party, and its voters on this issue ?

[life on mars]

Riveting stuff. First time watching a parliamentary session for two hours straight.

I feel a little sorry for May. She's trapped and there's **** all she can do about it . Not going down without a fight.

I agreed with her saying too many MPs are talking about what they wish would happen (second vote) rather than what is happening (brexit).

And the fact the day before she was involved in a 4 /5 hours cabinet discussion for even longer ,she no spring chicken ,this will be taken its toll on her health ,and befroe anyone points the finger i'm no fan of her .

[cyril evans awaydays]

There's around 120 MPs out of a total of 650 and a dozen or so peers from 700+ who are pro-Brexit, so circa 10% of lawmakers, the political class, want to implement the will of the majority who voted in the referendum.

Same question as posed to WB, what does your will look like in terms of the type of exit that would satisfy the reasons why you voted to leave?

[cyril evans awaydays]

And the fact the day before she was involved in a 4 /5 hours cabinet discussion for even longer ,she no spring chicken ,this will be taken its toll on her health ,and befroe anyone points the finger i'm no fan of her .

I know, WB is no fan of Trump apparently!

[Wales-Bales]

I know, WB is no fan of Trump apparently!
What if the Bernie Sanders election campaign team had been spied upon, would that be acceptable to you?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Apologies everybody. My fault I mentioned Trump's name so I should have guessed a sidetracking of the thread was not too far away

[Wales-Bales]

Apologies everybody. My fault I mentioned Trump's name so I should have guessed a sidetracking of the thread was not too far away
Don't do it again!

[life on mars]

Where's is the alternative plan ,or voice that makes sense taking in the complexity of this exit , strangely May has a deal closer to the center of the Labour who want to say in ,rather than the right loops like Mogg , Boris ,Redwood ,she could pull the SNP closer as well .

Its a fascinating political moment In time, yes May's leadership is under the spotlight , however so are other leaders as the country is split ,and those very split people, vote in or out the politicians, so be careful ,for what you wish for is the message for them . .

[CardiffIrish2]

Where's is the alternative plan ,or voice that makes sense taking in the complexity of this exit , strangely May has a deal closer to the center of the Labour who want to say in ,rather than the right loops like Mogg , Boris ,Redwood ,she could pull the SNP closer as well .

Its a fascinating political moment In time, yes May's leadership is under the spotlight , however so are other leaders as the country is split ,and those very split people, vote in or out the politicians, so be careful ,for what you wish for is the message for them . .


In fairness the deal is better then what I thought it would be.

Compared to a no deal Brexit it’s far better.

[Wales-Bales]

In fairness the deal is better then what I thought it would be.

Compared to a no deal Brexit it’s far better.
Better? Have you seen the leaked version? It's nothing like what May says it is.

[CardiffIrish2]

Better? Have you seen the leaked version? It's nothing like what May says it is.
Do you think a no deal Brexit is better then and why?

[Wales-Bales]

Do you think a no deal Brexit is better then and why?
We will regain our sovereignty and control of our country.

[Organ Morgan.]

Same question as posed to WB, what does your will look like in terms of the type of exit that would satisfy the reasons why you voted to leave?

I didn't vote in the referendum. A no deal departure would be my preference.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

We've already had a peoples vote, their job now is to carry out the will of the people.

There's talk of Theresa May being ousted by a vote of no confidence.

Surely the Conservatives already held a vote to decide their leader? She's only carrying out the will of the Tory party.

Of course, if they've changed their minds and are allowed to vote again, why shouldn't the electorate?

[the other bob wilson]

We will regain our sovereignty and control of our country.

You can almost hear "Rule Britannia" playing in the background can't you, soon to be followed by "There'll Always be an England" no doubt.

In another post you said "their job now is to carry out the will of the people." - perhaps you can explain what the will of the people is? I know the vote was to leave, but isn't that what we would do if the document based on the Chequers Agreement was universally accepted and yet so many who voted leave don't like it.

[Wales-Bales]

I know the vote was to leave, but isn't that what we would do if the document based on the Chequers Agreement was universally accepted and yet so many who voted leave don't like it.
What seems to have irked some Tories is there appears to be two versions of events, the one the PMs tells, and the other from Sabine Weyand in The Times.

[Wales-Bales]

When did the Daily Mail become a leftist newspaper?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsE6XMxWsAA1h62.jpg

[cyril evans awaydays]

[QUOTE=Wales-Bales;4927642]When did the Daily Mail become a leftist newspaper?

I think its more your own perception based on the other media you consume

[Wales-Bales]

I think its more your own perception based on the other media you consume
Nothing to do with perception, they have a new editor who is the opposite of the old editor.

[cyril evans awaydays]

[QUOTE=cyril evans awaydays;4927643]
Nothing to do with perception, they have a new editor who is the opposite of the old editor.

But you seem to believe that this has made its political stance leftist?

[Wales-Bales]

Gove is sticking with May, who would have thought it :biggrin:

[CardiffIrish2]

When did the Daily Mail become a leftist newspaper

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsE6XMxWsAA1h62.jpg


The Daily Mail leftist because they support a Conservative Prime Minister 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Wales-Bales]

The Daily Mail leftist because they support a Conservative Prime Minister ������������������
CINO!

[CardiffIrish2]

CINO!


Yes I’m sure of it. I can’t wait to see them back Jeremy Corbyn at the next election and extolling the virtues of State ownership.

Basically anyone who is not a hard right brexiteer is leftist?

[Wales-Bales]

Yes I’m sure of it. I can’t wait to see them back Jeremy Corbyn at the next election and extolling the virtues of State ownership.

Basically anyone who is not a hard right brexiteer is leftist?
Brexit is neither left or right.

[Wales-Bales]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jean Claude Juncker has left a press conference half way through with South African President. Not sure why <a href="https://t.co/XNXoeUS27x">pic.twitter.com/XNXoeUS27x</a></p>&mdash; Mehreen (@MehreenKhn) <a href="https://twitter.com/MehreenKhn/status/1063048201274560512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">15 November 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[life on mars]

We will regain our sovereignty and control of our country.

At what price though ,if we crash out ,our European masters and those countries who have trade deals with them are not going to come running to us , or place us in the front of any queue ,they will listen and be guided by the bigger marketplace and controller , which is Europe .

Not sure about your circumstances , but his idea of crashing out in the short term ,could seriously effect the poor and disadvantaged
of our society ,we should take what's on offer and move on ,what we shouldn't do is disregard the deal simply because a Tory has agreed it , we need to be above the politicians who are politicizing this issue for personal gain ,and thats not just aimed at the Tories .

The inner details of this deal were agreed by civil servants anyway ,based on risk ,best interests of everyone and everything, not just the sad narrow points ,folk used the referendum for to beat up Europe , Governments or Migrants .

[Rjk]

https://www.desmog.co.uk/2018/11/18/matthew-sarah-elliott-uk-power-couple-linking-us-libertarians-and-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-brexit?amp&__twitter_impression=true

[life on mars]

When did the Daily Mail become a leftist newspaper?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsE6XMxWsAA1h62.jpg

its bloody good article form a horrible rag

[Rjk]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/leave-supporting-llanelli-left-reeling-as-manufacturing-industry-moves-out-due-to-brexit/08/11/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Not familiar with Llanelli, are Schaeffler a big employer?

[Organ Morgan.]

Theresa May govt to ‘engineer financial crash’ to frighten MPs into voting for Brexit deal – report: https://www.rt.com/uk/444391-tories-brexit-crash-economy/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

Theresa May’s government are planning to “engineer a financial crash” if parliament fails to back their Brexit deal – in an attempt to frighten MPs into voting it through at a second vote, claims a source close to the PM’s aides.

Since agreeing a draft Brexit withdrawal deal with the EU on Wednesday, May has had to contend with a string of cabinet resignations and a huge backlash from rebel MPs.

The Sunday Times reports that, faced with the prospect of the deal being voted down, the UK government will attempt to plunge the financial markets into chaos – in a bid to scare MPs into eventually voting it through on a second vote.

A source, who has discussed the issue with May’s officials, has told the paper that No 10 has come up with a dark plan to twist the arms of MPs to force through their Brexit deal.

“No 10’s plan is to encourage a crash in financial markets after losing a first vote in the hope this stampedes MPs into voting for it second time,” the source claims.

[life on mars]

Theresa May govt to ‘engineer financial crash’ to frighten MPs into voting for Brexit deal – report: https://www.rt.com/uk/444391-tories-brexit-crash-economy/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

Theresa May’s government are planning to “engineer a financial crash” if parliament fails to back their Brexit deal – in an attempt to frighten MPs into voting it through at a second vote, claims a source close to the PM’s aides.

Since agreeing a draft Brexit withdrawal deal with the EU on Wednesday, May has had to contend with a string of cabinet resignations and a huge backlash from rebel MPs.

The Sunday Times reports that, faced with the prospect of the deal being voted down, the UK government will attempt to plunge the financial markets into chaos – in a bid to scare MPs into eventually voting it through on a second vote.

A source, who has discussed the issue with May’s officials, has told the paper that No 10 has come up with a dark plan to twist the arms of MPs to force through their Brexit deal.

“No 10’s plan is to encourage a crash in financial markets after losing a first vote in the hope this stampedes MPs into voting for it second time,” the source claims.

Perhaps the opposition parties could foil this plot and vote for the deal ,all done and dusted then .

I can imagine the headlines now ::
"May 's financial crash plan plan foiled , by clever ,caring politicians ""

Labour win the next election rise to power after saving the country from turmoil .

[Eric Cartman]

Perhaps the opposition parties could foil this plot and vote for the deal ,all done and dusted then .

I can imagine the headlines now ::
"May 's financial crash plan plan foiled , by clever ,caring politicians ""

Labour win the next election rise to power after saving the country from turmoil .

Alienate the 52 and the 48 and win the next election? Something tells me you arent going to be snapped up as a political strategist any time soon.

I know life long Tory remainers and Brexiteers both saying they will never vote for them again. Labour are best off sticking to their plan, it isn't their deal and isn't their responsibility to push it through parliament when it doesn't meet their 'tests'

[life on mars]

Alienate the 52 and the 48 and win the next election? Something tells me you arent going to be snapped up as a political strategist any time soon.

I know life long Tory remainers and Brexiteers both saying they will never vote for them again. Labour are best off sticking to their plan, it isn't their deal and isn't their responsibility to push it through parliament when it doesn't meet their 'tests'


I'm not sure the 52 / 48 will be the same now .

I don't need to be advised , that I wouldn't profess to being a political strategist, thank you anyway for pointing it out , I didn't think it was a necessary qualification to enter a debate on CCMB . I will leave that skill and bow to the greater and good on this board like yourself .

One is allowed a view or opinion ,however it resonates with others of a different view . The challenge though is how that is managed and deploying a debate without attracting cheap one line comments , which usually suggests one has lost the debate , thankfully the world of control speech is not yet upon us ,and a lot of contributors have manners and very interesting views .

PS ( I do have a vast experience in debate , through my career path)

[Eric Cartman]

I'm not sure the 52 / 48 will be the same now .

I don't need to be advised , that I wouldn't profess to being a political strategist, thank you anyway for pointing it out , I didn't think it was a necessary qualification to enter a debate on CCMB . I will leave that skill and bow to the greater and good on this board like yourself .

One is allowed a view or opinion ,however it resonates with others of a different view . The challenge though is how that is managed and deploying a debate without attracting cheap one line comments , which usually suggests one has lost the debate , thankfully the world of control speech is not yet upon us ,and a lot of contributors have manners and very interesting views .

PS ( I do have a vast experience in debate , through my career path)

Oh god are you being denied your right to free expression because I criticised what you said and made a joke??

You have acted like a right baby in some of the threads about anti-Semitism, completely unwilling to the debate the issue in a sensible fashion so for you to get on your high horse about a couple of throwaway comments is just pathetic really. You get treated how you treat others.

[Rjk]

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/11/19/austerity-swung-voters-to-brexit-and-now-they-are-changing-their-minds/

[life on mars]

Oh god are you being denied your right to free expression because I criticised what you said and made a joke??

You have acted like a right baby in some of the threads about anti-Semitism, completely unwilling to the debate the issue in a sensible fashion so for you to get on your high horse about a couple of throwaway comments is just pathetic really. You get treated how you treat others.

Let me help you , below are some of your throwaway lines :

I didn't realise you were present in the negotiations.


What a load of rubbish. I know you lot love a good 'enemies of the people' collage but you should at least have something juicy on them. The cherry on top, '20 year career at pro EU bank', wtf does...

You would have to be pretty short on brain cells to not realise that Brexit done 'well' means more civil servants and more travelling.

I think you need help. Can't you see that you are the one person on here who regularly does all the things you mention in your post?

I knew you would chime in with that, **** you man.

I didn't realise you were present in the negotiations.

[Eric Cartman]

Let me help you , below are some of your throwaway lines :

I didn't realise you were present in the negotiations.


What a load of rubbish. I know you lot love a good 'enemies of the people' collage but you should at least have something juicy on them. The cherry on top, '20 year career at pro EU bank', wtf does...

You would have to be pretty short on brain cells to not realise that Brexit done 'well' means more civil servants and more travelling.

I think you need help. Can't you see that you are the one person on here who regularly does all the things you mention in your post?

I knew you would chime in with that, **** you man.

I didn't realise you were present in the negotiations.

Would you like me to just nod and clap when you are talking rubbish next time?

I am not a professional debater like you, I am just trying to get by best I can.

[life on mars]

Would you like me to just nod and clap when you are talking rubbish next time?

I am not a professional debater like you, I am just trying to get by best I can.

You just love a snide dig don't you , I hope it helps with your problems .

You seem to be a very frustrated person , hope you find a way through your darkness.

[Eric Cartman]

You just love a snide dig don't you , I hope it helps with your problems .

You seem to be a very frustrated person , hope you find a way through your darkness.

I just say it as I see it. If you are talking rubbish then I am not going to stroke your hair and tell you it is true.

[severncity]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/leave-supporting-llanelli-left-reeling-as-manufacturing-industry-moves-out-due-to-brexit/08/11/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Not familiar with Llanelli, are Schaeffler a big employer?

A quick look at Schaeffler’s wiki page shows that its CEO is Klaus Rosenfeld. Googling his name with “Angela Merkel” brings up an article with this photo of Klaus sitting next to Merkel at her first meeting with Trump at the White House in March 2017. Ivanka is to Merkel’s right.

2755

He is clearly a very good friend of Merkel’s. Maybe Llanelli is being punished for voting Leave? À la Grecque.

https://www.wa.de/hamm/angela-merkel-per30389/manager-schaeffler-klaus-rosenfeld-hamm-sitzt-neben-angela-merkel-trifft-donald-trump-8005387.html

[Rjk]

A quick look at Schaeffler’s wiki page shows that its CEO is Klaus Rosenfeld. Googling his name with “Angela Merkel” brings up an article with this photo of Klaus sitting next to Merkel at her first meeting with Trump at the White House in March 2017. Ivanka is to Merkel’s right.

2755

He is clearly a very good friend of Merkel’s. Maybe Llanelli is being punished for voting Leave? À la Grecque.

https://www.wa.de/hamm/angela-merkel-per30389/manager-schaeffler-klaus-rosenfeld-hamm-sitzt-neben-angela-merkel-trifft-donald-trump-8005387.html

I think that's pretty unlikely. A few hundred jobs in one fairly remote part of Britain. It has barely registered in Wales, let alone the rest of Britain

[severncity]

I think that's pretty unlikely. A few hundred jobs in one fairly remote part of Britain. It has barely registered in Wales, let alone the rest of Britain

Did you know that the word “credulous “ has been banned from U.K. dictionaries by the EU?

And did you not see the many news items regarding the closure in the MSM? I did.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46110825

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/06/new-blow-for-uk-car-industry-as-european-parts-factories-close-michelin-schaeffler

[cyril evans awaydays]

He is clearly a very good friend of Merkel’s. Maybe Llanelli is being punished for voting Leave? À la Grecque.

Conversely the proponents of playing hardball with the EU always warned we had the upper hand because of the suffering it would cause in the German automotive industry. For some this should be an early warning to Jerry not to mess with dear old Blighty!

[severncity]

He is clearly a very good friend of Merkel’s. Maybe Llanelli is being punished for voting Leave? À la Grecque.

Conversely the proponents of playing hardball with the EU always warned we had the upper hand because of the suffering it would cause in the German automotive industry. For some this should be an early warning to Jerry not to mess with dear old Blighty!

You seem to see the world in a very black or white way. Of course the German car manufacturers are worried about Brexit, which wouldn’t preclude them punishing the U.K. for escaping from the nascent fourth Reich.

[the other bob wilson]

You seem to see the world in a very black or white way. Of course the German car manufacturers are worried about Brexit, which wouldn’t preclude them punishing the U.K. for escaping from the nascent fourth Reich.

Speaking of seeing the world in a very black and white way.

[CardiffIrish2]

Speaking of seeing the world in a very black and white way.

Yeah at that point I did think ‘’Woaaaahh’

[lardy]

Speaking of seeing the world in a very black and white way.

Easy to forget that Farage gets invited to talk at rallies for neo-nazis.

[severncity]

Speaking of seeing the world in a very black and white way.

Reich means “realm” and a German-dominated EU is inevitable after the U.K. leaves. I don’t for one minute think that there will be a Nazi regime in Berlin. However I do think that the anti-democratic tendencies within the EU power structures will be hijacked by Germany. One only has to look at how the national budgets in Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Italy have had to be rubber stamped by both the EC and the Frankfurt-based ECB to see that Germany exerts a powerful control over its “realm”.

All that Germany will need in order to de facto control the EU is a compliant France run by, say, an ex-Goldman Sachs banker. Hey Presto the Fourth Reich.

And anyway I was applying the term “black and white” thinking to past or current events. I’m not sure that it is really applicable to divining the future given the nature of this particular universe.

[life on mars]

I just say it as I see it. If you are talking rubbish then I am not going to stroke your hair and tell you it is true.

Hey, hey , no stroking,you'll end up in trouble , dontstrokeme#.

[life on mars]

I listened, watched and read a lot of media today on Brexit ,my god it's not easy to decide on it's so divisive everyone is swimming in different ways ,picking on individual parts that effects just them ,it seems no one can pull togther a single commonality agreement , what a burden and tough task this is .

[Rjk]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

That's where all the Brexit plans are heading are heading....

[life on mars]

That's where all the Brexit plans are heading are heading....

And border control cessation of free movement .

I wonder if the EU now reflects on boy Cameron's request to introduce a tighter control in immigration and free movement , as it now seems other European countries now think the same , even Democratic Clinton has weighed in recently sighting this as one of the reasons for the rise in right wing agenda's.

[Eric Cartman]

And border control cessation of free movement .

I wonder if the EU now reflects on boy Cameron's request to introduce a tighter control in immigration and free movement , as it now seems other European countries now think the same , even Democratic Clinton has weighed in recently sighting this as one of the reasons for the rise in right wing agenda's.

Companies, rich people and capitol will still have freedom of movement, just not you or I.

EU's handling of the migrant crisis has not helped but the Britons have always struggled with the concept of being in a single labour market and freedom of movement in general. Broadly speaking the people of this country has always found it hard to stop believing that a person in Newcastle deserves a job in London over a better qualified guy from Amiens, this view is not really compatible with being in favour of a European union.

[Eric Cartman]

It seems to me, from the interviews I've heard over the last couple of days, that the leaver's main problem ether deal on offer is it prevents us from seeking our own deals, and "completely eliminates any potential competitive advantage" of the UK with respect to Europe.
I think you can read from this that the grand plan for the UK outside of the EU was to drop corporation tax and try to tempt big companies to move their operations here.

Is that the kind of thing that leave voters on here would be keen on?
Low tax, beholden to huge companies?

Almost certainly our chosen way of surviving post 'no deal'.

[the other bob wilson]

Reich means “realm” and a German-dominated EU is inevitable after the U.K. leaves. I don’t for one minute think that there will be a Nazi regime in Berlin. However I do think that the anti-democratic tendencies within the EU power structures will be hijacked by Germany. One only has to look at how the national budgets in Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Italy have had to be rubber stamped by both the EC and the Frankfurt-based ECB to see that Germany exerts a powerful control over its “realm”.

All that Germany will need in order to de facto control the EU is a compliant France run by, say, an ex-Goldman Sachs banker. Hey Presto the Fourth Reich.

And anyway I was applying the term “black and white” thinking to past or current events. I’m not sure that it is really applicable to divining the future given the nature of this particular universe.

Let's just say your version of events does not include many, if any, "grey areas" (granted, you're far from alone in being like that - there are plenty on both sides who feel the same way), so I'd say you're seeing things in the same black and white terms you accused Cyril of displaying.

Also, no matter the context in which it's used, I think plenty of Germans would, rightly, be upset to see the term "fourth Reich" applied to them currently - the connotations are obvious even if you say that was not your intention.

[life on mars]

Companies, rich people and capitol will still have freedom of movement, just not you or I.

EU's handling of the migrant crisis has not helped but the Britons have always struggled with the concept of being in a single labour market and freedom of movement in general. Broadly speaking the people of this country has always found it hard to stop believing that a person in Newcastle deserves a job in London over a better qualified guy from Amiens, this view is not really compatible with being in favour of a European union.

Hasn't the real issue of free movement been a hot spot issue in those type of towns like the North East ,run down coastal areas where the jobs are low skilled, housing, health,school are already at a pinch points , these were seen as the UKIP breeding grounds, and I think this is being seen else where in the world, and I think that was the point Clinton was offering ,to fair she may have a point
Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[the other bob wilson]

Normal thing, I suppose I think this is a great article because it virtually mirrors my own thought on the whole shambles - right down to the dig at Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/23/brexit-advent-political-hellscape-war-with-spain

[life on mars]

Let's just say your version of events does not include many, if any, "grey areas" (granted, you're far from alone in being like that - there are plenty on both sides who feel the same way), so I'd say you're seeing things in the same black and white terms you accused Cyril of displaying.

Also, no matter the context in which it's used, I think plenty of Germans would, rightly, be upset to see the term "fourth Reich" applied to them currently - the connotations are obvious even if you say that was not your intention.

TOBW and do agree , especially when you view thier tolerance to others , they are not a nation that seeks participation in war and the arms race , they deliver good quality working rights and living standards for its people, yes I too would be upset as a German.

I think we maybe confusing efficency in running ones country to some form of organisation , and it does it better than most in a peaceful way .

[CardiffIrish2]

Normal thing, I suppose I think this is a great article because it virtually mirrors my own thought on the whole shambles - right down to the dig at Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/23/brexit-advent-political-hellscape-war-with-spain


Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius 😂😂👍

[life on mars]

Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius ������

How anyone will be able to really measure the jobs test post and pre brexit is beyond me, as the worlds labour markets evolve naturally in so many ways, with or without Brexit ,at least the doomsday( every one is leaving) hasn't materialized yet .

[Eric Cartman]

Hasn't the real issue of free movement been a hot spot issue in those type of towns like the North East ,run down coastal areas where the jobs are low skilled, housing, health,school are already at a pinch points , these were seen as the UKIP breeding grounds, and I think this is being seen else where in the world, and I think that was the point Clinton was offering ,to fair she may have a point
Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

It sounds like she is saying that we should implement their agenda in order to stop them? The Brexit argument about migration was going on long before the migrant crisis so to conflate the two issues (freedom of movement within Europe and the mass movement of millions from Africa and the middle east) is not moral in my opinion. First we need to decide do we like the idea of people moving around Europe freely for work, I personally do. Then we can move on to how you fix the migrant crisis and ensure that Europe handles such a thing better in the future.

[Eric Cartman]

Same as my thoughts. Fair play that reference to Gromit laying down the tracks was genius ������

That is a cracker of a comparison.

[life on mars]

It sounds like she is saying that we should implement their agenda in order to stop them? The Brexit argument about migration was going on long before the migrant crisis so to conflate the two issues (freedom of movement within Europe and the mass movement of millions from Africa and the middle east) is not moral in my opinion. First we need to decide do we like the idea of people moving around Europe freely for work, I personally do. Then we can move on to how you fix the migrant crisis and ensure that Europe handles such a thing better in the future.

Sounds like a plan, trouble with Europe and it's plans, It takes an age, and the continent of Africa could have shifted by then😁

[Eric Cartman]

Sounds like a plan, trouble with Europe and it's plans, It takes an age, and the continent of Africa could have shifted by then��

Not sure that is a problem unique to the EU!!

[Wales-Bales]

Tory MPs Go To War Over John Hayes 'Utter Cock' Knighthood

https://www.iaindale.com/articles/tory-mps-go-to-war-over-john-hayes-utter-cock-knighthood

[Wales-Bales]

Brexit: Donald Tusk tells European Union to approve his secret backroom deal with May that chains the UK to the EU forever

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46330380

[severncity]

TOBW and do agree , especially when you view thier tolerance to others , they are not a nation that seeks participation in war and the arms race , they deliver good quality working rights and living standards for its people, yes I too would be upset as a German.

I think we maybe confusing efficency in running ones country to some form of organisation , and it does it better than most in a peaceful way .


Cyril wrote
Conversely the proponents of playing hardball with the EU always warned we had the upper hand because of the suffering it would cause in the German automotive industry. For some this should be an early warning to Jerry not to mess with dear old Blighty!

implying that IF German car makers are worried that Brexit will have a negative effect on their industry THEN they will not punish Leave voting areas in the U.K.

The two concepts are not either/or. Being worried about Brexit has not stopped them punishing Llanelli, it seems. In the press releases plant closures were blamed on “the uncertainty surrounding Brexit.

Please quote a statement from me displaying similar black-and-white thinking.

Do you think there’s any truth in Harry Enfield’s comical portrayal of a German or is he just a gammony bigot?


https://youtu.be/Z7W7q7pWygU

[cyril evans awaydays]

Just for clarity the thrust of my response was to gently ridicule the far reached theory that the closure of the Llanelli factory was a punishment beating by a multi-national German manufacturer rather than a hard headed commercial decision. This was coupled with the intimation this happened as the CEO is clearly a very close friend of Merkel's (based on his participation in a visit to the White House). My response was as serious as I took your original argument.

Since then you have reinforced your line of argument a couple of times with the belief of the forthcoming Fourth Reich (of course this will look more like the First or Second Reich rather than the nasty Third one). Apparently this realm is possible because the ECB, though headed by an Italian, is based in Frankfurt and Macron used to be an investment banker for two years (although with Rothchild rather than Goldman Sachs). It seems theories based on little fact and leaps of faith is the vogue these days.

I am untroubled by your thoughts on the colour of my thinking though it seems people can take umbrage at such accusations!

[Eric Cartman]

Remember seeing this on Reddit when it came out, surprised that it only has 40k views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmRYGRILOxU

[Auntie Andy]

My letter to The Nation

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/1066466567700037632?s=21

Going well I see :hehe:

[severncity]

Just for clarity the thrust of my response was to gently ridicule the far reached theory that the closure of the Llanelli factory was a punishment beating by a multi-national German manufacturer rather than a hard headed commercial decision. This was coupled with the intimation this happened as the CEO is clearly a very close friend of Merkel's (based on his participation in a visit to the White House). My response was as serious as I took your original argument.

Since then you have reinforced your line of argument a couple of times with the belief of the forthcoming Fourth Reich (of course this will look more like the First or Second Reich rather than the nasty Third one). Apparently this realm is possible because the ECB, though headed by an Italian, is based in Frankfurt and Macron used to be an investment banker for two years (although with Rothchild rather than Goldman Sachs). It seems theories based on little fact and leaps of faith is the vogue these days.

I am untroubled by your thoughts on the colour of my thinking though it seems people can take umbrage at such accusations!

Ah yes my mistake. He worked for Rothschild but, according to Wikileaks, he accepted a donation for his presidential election campaign from GS, along with
Soros: 2 365 910,16 €
David Rothschild: 976 126,87 €
Goldman-Sachs: 2 145 100 €

https://twitter.com/cassandra_ilion/status/1013802041527894022?s=21

Having worked in politics for many years I suppose I see how the world works in a very different way to the average person. Using Occam’s Razor is handy - what is the likeliest explanation for Merkel having Rosenfeld sat next to her as she parleys with her newly powerful ideological foe?

She’s bound to have picked someone she likes and trusts to be in that plum seat. You know, to back her up and to give good counsel.

And given that Rosenfeld himself said that the Llanelli plant was closing due to “uncertainty over Brexit” is it likely that there was an element of punishing Leavers in that decision?

It is hardly a “far-reached theory”; in fact it is the most likely explanation. But you being you, credulous and frightened, means that you will always believe what Auntie Beeb and Uncle Grauniad tell you.

Night night little Cyril. I will leave the landing light on so you won’t have nightmares about Rees-Mogg, Trump, BoJo and Farage. We don’t want you wetting the bed again do we?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Ah yes my mistake. He worked for Rothschild but, according to Wikileaks, he accepted a donation for his presidential election campaign from GS, along with
Soros: 2 365 910,16 €
David Rothschild: 976 126,87 €
Goldman-Sachs: 2 145 100 €

https://twitter.com/cassandra_ilion/status/1013802041527894022?s=21

Having worked in politics for many years I suppose I see how the world works in a very different way to the average person. Using Occam’s Razor is handy - what is the likeliest explanation for Merkel having Rosenfeld sat next to her as she parleys with her newly powerful ideological foe?

She’s bound to have picked someone she likes and trusts to be in that plum seat. You know, to back her up and to give good counsel.

And given that Rosenfeld himself said that the Llanelli plant was closing due to “uncertainty over Brexit” is it likely that there was an element of punishing Leavers in that decision?

It is hardly a “far-reached theory”; in fact it is the most likely explanation. But you being you, credulous and frightened, means that you will always believe what Auntie Beeb and Uncle Grauniad tell you.

Night night little Cyril. I will leave the landing light on so you won’t have nightmares about Rees-Mogg, Trump, BoJo and Farage. We don’t want you wetting the bed again do we?

Ah special insight not available to the average person...... now I understand.

[Wales-Bales]

It is hardly a “far-reached theory”; in fact it is the most likely explanation. But you being you, credulous and frightened, means that you will always believe what Auntie Beeb and Uncle Grauniad tell you.

Night night little Cyril. I will leave the landing light on so you won’t have nightmares about Rees-Mogg, Trump, BoJo and Farage. We don’t want you wetting the bed again do we?
:biggrin:

[Eric Cartman]

Ah yes my mistake. He worked for Rothschild but, according to Wikileaks, he accepted a donation for his presidential election campaign from GS, along with
Soros: 2 365 910,16 €
David Rothschild: 976 126,87 €
Goldman-Sachs: 2 145 100 €

https://twitter.com/cassandra_ilion/status/1013802041527894022?s=21

Having worked in politics for many years I suppose I see how the world works in a very different way to the average person. Using Occam’s Razor is handy - what is the likeliest explanation for Merkel having Rosenfeld sat next to her as she parleys with her newly powerful ideological foe?

She’s bound to have picked someone she likes and trusts to be in that plum seat. You know, to back her up and to give good counsel.

And given that Rosenfeld himself said that the Llanelli plant was closing due to “uncertainty over Brexit” is it likely that there was an element of punishing Leavers in that decision?

It is hardly a “far-reached theory”; in fact it is the most likely explanation. But you being you, credulous and frightened, means that you will always believe what Auntie Beeb and Uncle Grauniad tell you.

Night night little Cyril. I will leave the landing light on so you won’t have nightmares about Rees-Mogg, Trump, BoJo and Farage. We don’t want you wetting the bed again do we?

You talk about how the political world works but what benefit is there to punishing Llanelli? I could understand using the plant/jobs as leverage to make them vote to remain but why close a plant (profitable by your assessment) after the vote has taken place.

[life on mars]

No body cares about the people, or the future ,whatever side of the political spectrum they sit , that includes whoever owns businesses and where they currently are .

no politician or business man in this country cares as , Brexit has become the convenient tool of self agenda, destruction, overthrow , and a naïve belief its a fast track to power

[lardy]

Here's Boris attempting to string a few sentences together about our European partners without making any bumblewhoopsies.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Oh my God! <br>OH MY GOD!!! <br>��<a href="https://t.co/2eePik7vu2">pic.twitter.com/2eePik7vu2</a></p>&mdash; ARTIST TAXI DRIVER (@chunkymark) <a href="https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1067374989962330112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[life on mars]

Here's Boris attempting to string a few sentences together about our European partners without making any bumblewhoopsies.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Oh my God! <br>OH MY GOD!!! <br>��<a href="https://t.co/2eePik7vu2">pic.twitter.com/2eePik7vu2</a></p>&mdash; ARTIST TAXI DRIVER (@chunkymark) <a href="https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1067374989962330112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Why is his neck disengaging from his body .

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Why is his neck disengaging from his body .

Maybe it's his body trying to disassociate from his head....

[the other bob wilson]

If Brexit was only about economic arguments, I would have voted to leave because the Remain side were absolutely abysmal on that side of things. So, I probably should be thinking that this is more "Project Fear" stuff, but, this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46366162

seems different because they are specific costings for different scenarios rather than the vague stuff we had during the Referendum.

It seems we have reached a state where the Prime Minister and her Chancellor are arguing that the negotiated plan is best because we'll be about £3 billion a year worse off compared to £10 billion a year if there's no deal - is this really what 17 million plus people thought they were voting for?

[cyril evans awaydays]

If Brexit was only about economic arguments, I would have voted to leave because the Remain side were absolutely abysmal on that side of things. So, I probably should be thinking that this is more "Project Fear" stuff, but, this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46366162

seems different because they are specific costings for different scenarios rather than the vague stuff we had during the Referendum.

It seems we have reached a state where the Prime Minister and her Chancellor are arguing that the negotiated plan is best because we'll be about £3 billion a year worse off compared to £10 billion a year if there's no deal - is this really what 17 million plus people thought they were voting for?

We have probably reached the point where we can have an informed debate about the options for the country. Unfortunately it is probably too late in the day.

Option A

May's deal. It honours the referendum result in that we officially leave the EU but then have a transition period where to all intents and purposes we remain subject to EU rules that runs to the end of 2020 but could extend to the end of 2022. At that point either a backstop kicks in if we haven't negotiated a trade deal with the EU in that time. After transition freedom of movement for EU citizens (out and in) is curtailed and we leave the Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies.

The Irish border remains unpoliced but Northern Ireland gets special status. Goods flow freely as we remain aligned to the EU customs code. The level of alignment we have with the EU customs union restricts the ability negotiate trade deals with other third countries. After transition we no longer pay significant amounts to the EU (we may still pay sizeable amounts to remain a member of certain EU institutions) but the net estimated consequence is the UK is £40b worse off over a 15 year period. We are likely to remain subject to a significant amount of EU law going forward with no say in its drafting and the European Court of Justice will hold sway over its interpretation.

Option B

Leave with no deal on 29th March 2019. It honours the referendum result. There is no transition period and from the date of leaving we will engage with the EU as any third country that has not negotiated a trade deal on WTO rule terms. Customs and tariff barriers kick in immediately for all goods entering and leaving the EU from the UK and vice versa. Interim reciprocal arrangements beyond WTO rules could be negotiated on a contingency basis (UK govt has produced technical notices covering over 100 different areas for a no-deal scenario). There are risks in the immediate period after departure that infrastructure may not be in place and delays in movement of goods arise at key points of entry into the UK.

Freedom of movement rights end at withdrawal and the UK can immediately start negotiations with third countries on new trade deals. In the interim they may need to trade with these countries on the basis of any deals negotiated between them and the EU. Payments to the EU will cease and a possible reduction in the amounts the UK has said it pay on leaving could be imposed. There are risks that a hard border would need to be imposed on the island of Ireland. Reports suggest that the UK government estimates that the country will be £150b worse off over 15 years under this scenario. UK parliament will have full sovereignty over its laws with no jurisdiction for the ECJ.

Option C

Remain in the EU. This does not honour the referendum result without the interjection of another vote to override the June 2016 vote. We remain in the single market and the customs union including free movement for EU citizens. We are subject to EU law though we have a say in shaping it but the ultimate arbiter of interpretation remains the ECJ. We continue to make contributions to the EU. Issues over whether Article 50 can be unilaterally rescinded and even if so whether the UK would retain the terms of its membership before the Article 50 notice was served (eg whether the rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher would be retained).

If Option A is voted down then other variants such as leaving on terms like Norway has now may emerge. Personally have no idea what will happen next and at what cost to the social cohesion of the country.

[cyril evans awaydays]

It would appear that reports were off the mark. The government has published an economic analysis of the impact of its Chequers proposal but not the deal negotiated and agreed!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

We have probably reached the point where we can have an informed debate about the options for the country. Unfortunately it is probably too late in the day.

Option A

May's deal. It honours the referendum result in that we officially leave the EU but then have a transition period where to all intents and purposes we remain subject to EU rules that runs to the end of 2020 but could extend to the end of 2022. At that point either a backstop kicks in if we haven't negotiated a trade deal with the EU in that time. After transition freedom of movement for EU citizens (out and in) is curtailed and we leave the Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies.

The Irish border remains unpoliced but Northern Ireland gets special status. Goods flow freely as we remain aligned to the EU customs code. The level of alignment we have with the EU customs union restricts the ability negotiate trade deals with other third countries. After transition we no longer pay significant amounts to the EU (we may still pay sizeable amounts to remain a member of certain EU institutions) but the net estimated consequence is the UK is £40b worse off over a 15 year period. We are likely to remain subject to a significant amount of EU law going forward with no say in its drafting and the European Court of Justice will hold sway over its interpretation.

Option B

Leave with no deal on 29th March 2019. It honours the referendum result. There is no transition period and from the date of leaving we will engage with the EU as any third country that has not negotiated a trade deal on WTO rule terms. Customs and tariff barriers kick in immediately for all goods entering and leaving the EU from the UK and vice versa. Interim reciprocal arrangements beyond WTO rules could be negotiated on a contingency basis (UK govt has produced technical notices covering over 100 different areas for a no-deal scenario). There are risks in the immediate period after departure that infrastructure may not be in place and delays in movement of goods arise at key points of entry into the UK.

Freedom of movement rights end at withdrawal and the UK can immediately start negotiations with third countries on new trade deals. In the interim they may need to trade with these countries on the basis of any deals negotiated between them and the EU. Payments to the EU will cease and a possible reduction in the amounts the UK has said it pay on leaving could be imposed. There are risks that a hard border would need to be imposed on the island of Ireland. Reports suggest that the UK government estimates that the country will be £150b worse off over 15 years under this scenario. UK parliament will have full sovereignty over its laws with no jurisdiction for the ECJ.

Option C

Remain in the EU. This does not honour the referendum result without the interjection of another vote to override the June 2016 vote. We remain in the single market and the customs union including free movement for EU citizens. We are subject to EU law though we have a say in shaping it but the ultimate arbiter of interpretation remains the ECJ. We continue to make contributions to the EU. Issues over whether Article 50 can be unilaterally rescinded and even if so whether the UK would retain the terms of its membership before the Article 50 notice was served (eg whether the rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher would be retained).

If Option A is voted down then other variants such as leaving on terms like Norway has now may emerge. Personally have no idea what will happen next and at what cost to the social cohesion of the country.

How many people who voted in referendum (and on both sides of the debate) will have had even a scintilla of understanding as to the complexity of the situation as it was and how it will be?

[the other bob wilson]

We have probably reached the point where we can have an informed debate about the options for the country. Unfortunately it is probably too late in the day.

Option A

May's deal. It honours the referendum result in that we officially leave the EU but then have a transition period where to all intents and purposes we remain subject to EU rules that runs to the end of 2020 but could extend to the end of 2022. At that point either a backstop kicks in if we haven't negotiated a trade deal with the EU in that time. After transition freedom of movement for EU citizens (out and in) is curtailed and we leave the Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies.

The Irish border remains unpoliced but Northern Ireland gets special status. Goods flow freely as we remain aligned to the EU customs code. The level of alignment we have with the EU customs union restricts the ability negotiate trade deals with other third countries. After transition we no longer pay significant amounts to the EU (we may still pay sizeable amounts to remain a member of certain EU institutions) but the net estimated consequence is the UK is £40b worse off over a 15 year period. We are likely to remain subject to a significant amount of EU law going forward with no say in its drafting and the European Court of Justice will hold sway over its interpretation.

Option B

Leave with no deal on 29th March 2019. It honours the referendum result. There is no transition period and from the date of leaving we will engage with the EU as any third country that has not negotiated a trade deal on WTO rule terms. Customs and tariff barriers kick in immediately for all goods entering and leaving the EU from the UK and vice versa. Interim reciprocal arrangements beyond WTO rules could be negotiated on a contingency basis (UK govt has produced technical notices covering over 100 different areas for a no-deal scenario). There are risks in the immediate period after departure that infrastructure may not be in place and delays in movement of goods arise at key points of entry into the UK.

Freedom of movement rights end at withdrawal and the UK can immediately start negotiations with third countries on new trade deals. In the interim they may need to trade with these countries on the basis of any deals negotiated between them and the EU. Payments to the EU will cease and a possible reduction in the amounts the UK has said it pay on leaving could be imposed. There are risks that a hard border would need to be imposed on the island of Ireland. Reports suggest that the UK government estimates that the country will be £150b worse off over 15 years under this scenario. UK parliament will have full sovereignty over its laws with no jurisdiction for the ECJ.

Option C

Remain in the EU. This does not honour the referendum result without the interjection of another vote to override the June 2016 vote. We remain in the single market and the customs union including free movement for EU citizens. We are subject to EU law though we have a say in shaping it but the ultimate arbiter of interpretation remains the ECJ. We continue to make contributions to the EU. Issues over whether Article 50 can be unilaterally rescinded and even if so whether the UK would retain the terms of its membership before the Article 50 notice was served (eg whether the rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher would be retained).

If Option A is voted down then other variants such as leaving on terms like Norway has now may emerge. Personally have no idea what will happen next and at what cost to the social cohesion of the country.

Thanks for that. I agree with you about the possible cost to the social cohesion of the country. I don't see anyway out of the situation that satisfies everyone, there are going to be some very angry people around when any attempt for us to get back to "normal" is attempted - not that we're going to be in a position which could be called normal for years yet.

[Eric Cartman]

How many people who voted in referendum (and on both sides of the debate) will have had even a scintilla of understanding as to the complexity of the situation as it was and how it will be?

I blame the people who, for years, said 'just pick an issue and vote based on that'. Effectively saying, don't worry if you don't understand and can't be bothered to seek out further information, just vote based on whatever vague uninformed belief you already have inside you.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I blame the people who, for years, said 'just pick an issue and vote based on that'. Effectively saying, don't worry if you don't understand and can't be bothered to seek out further information, just vote based on whatever vague uninformed belief you already have inside you.

That is the weakness of democracy methinks. You only have to witness the TV reporters' vox pop interviews in any high street in the land to prove that most people don't seem even to make an effort to inform themselves about important issues that they vote on.

[life on mars]

We have probably reached the point where we can have an informed debate about the options for the country. Unfortunately it is probably too late in the day.

Option A

May's deal. It honours the referendum result in that we officially leave the EU but then have a transition period where to all intents and purposes we remain subject to EU rules that runs to the end of 2020 but could extend to the end of 2022. At that point either a backstop kicks in if we haven't negotiated a trade deal with the EU in that time. After transition freedom of movement for EU citizens (out and in) is curtailed and we leave the Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies.

The Irish border remains unpoliced but Northern Ireland gets special status. Goods flow freely as we remain aligned to the EU customs code. The level of alignment we have with the EU customs union restricts the ability negotiate trade deals with other third countries. After transition we no longer pay significant amounts to the EU (we may still pay sizeable amounts to remain a member of certain EU institutions) but the net estimated consequence is the UK is £40b worse off over a 15 year period. We are likely to remain subject to a significant amount of EU law going forward with no say in its drafting and the European Court of Justice will hold sway over its interpretation.

Option B

Leave with no deal on 29th March 2019. It honours the referendum result. There is no transition period and from the date of leaving we will engage with the EU as any third country that has not negotiated a trade deal on WTO rule terms. Customs and tariff barriers kick in immediately for all goods entering and leaving the EU from the UK and vice versa. Interim reciprocal arrangements beyond WTO rules could be negotiated on a contingency basis (UK govt has produced technical notices covering over 100 different areas for a no-deal scenario). There are risks in the immediate period after departure that infrastructure may not be in place and delays in movement of goods arise at key points of entry into the UK.

Freedom of movement rights end at withdrawal and the UK can immediately start negotiations with third countries on new trade deals. In the interim they may need to trade with these countries on the basis of any deals negotiated between them and the EU. Payments to the EU will cease and a possible reduction in the amounts the UK has said it pay on leaving could be imposed. There are risks that a hard border would need to be imposed on the island of Ireland. Reports suggest that the UK government estimates that the country will be £150b worse off over 15 years under this scenario. UK parliament will have full sovereignty over its laws with no jurisdiction for the ECJ.

Option C

Remain in the EU. This does not honour the referendum result without the interjection of another vote to override the June 2016 vote. We remain in the single market and the customs union including free movement for EU citizens. We are subject to EU law though we have a say in shaping it but the ultimate arbiter of interpretation remains the ECJ. We continue to make contributions to the EU. Issues over whether Article 50 can be unilaterally rescinded and even if so whether the UK would retain the terms of its membership before the Article 50 notice was served (eg whether the rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher would be retained).

If Option A is voted down then other variants such as leaving on terms like Norway has now may emerge. Personally have no idea what will happen next and at what cost to the social cohesion of the country.

Have to say a cracking summary and read, it's better than what the critics and the oppostion are serving up .

[life on mars]

That is the weakness of democracy methinks. You only have to witness the TV reporters' vox pop interviews in any high street in the land to prove that most people don't seem even to make an effort to inform themselves about important issues that they vote on.

Id said something along the same lines way back and was slated for it ,at least you havd been spared that Lol.

[Eric Cartman]

BBC are up to no good again. Last week the audience and panel of question time was a love in for May's deal and this week they are teaming up with number 10 to push the angle that Corbyn is running scared of a debate even though labour have already agreed a date and time with itv.

Having said that, I still can't work out the point of a televised debate when we don't get to make a decision about anything.

[lardy]

It's all a bit of a laugh

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Cabinet Resignation of the Year, shared by Dominic Raab and David Davis - ⁦⁦<a href="https://twitter.com/FraserNelson?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FraserNelson</a>⁩: “The first 2 Brexit Secretaries of 2018” <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpecAwards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SpecAwards</a> <a href="https://t.co/cSjgWkaYB1">pic.twitter.com/cSjgWkaYB1</a></p>&mdash; Tom Newton Dunn (@tnewtondunn) <a href="https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1067908782364200961?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 28, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[cyril evans awaydays]

[QUOTE=lardy;4929653]It's all a bit of a laugh

A bit premature in my opinion given there are almost five weeks of 2018 left yet!

[life on mars]

BBC are up to no good again. Last week the audience and panel of question time was a love in for May's deal and this week they are teaming up with number 10 to push the angle that Corbyn is running scared of a debate even though labour have already agreed a date and time with itv.

Having said that, I still can't work out the point of a televised debate when we don't get to make a decision about anything.

Especially as both the debaters want a deal anyway.

[life on mars]

Think this article hits some points well
Let’s be honest about what’s really driving Brexit: bigotry

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/02/honest-brexit-bigotry-ugly-chapter-history?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Wales-Bales]

That is the weakness of democracy methinks. You only have to witness the TV reporters' vox pop interviews in any high street in the land to prove that most people don't seem even to make an effort to inform themselves about important issues that they vote on.
It's actually a weakness of the education system that people can't think critically, but it's probably meant to be that way!

[Wales-Bales]

Plan C - the second referendum

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46416591

[life on mars]

Plan C - the second referendum

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46416591

Wouldn't it be funny if no was even bigger this time around, lol.

I did a small poll recently amongst friends, etc about which way they'd vote again based on the remainers theory folks are more informed ,and it surprised me they were unchanged and most wanted out ,some even more than last time as they think Europe has been bullish in trying to squeeze us into a second referendum as they don't like our first decision.

[Wales-Bales]

Wouldn't it be funny if no was even bigger this time around, lol.

I did a small poll recently amongst friends, etc about which way they'd vote again based on the remainers theory folks are more informed ,and it surprised me they were unchanged and most wanted out ,some even more than last time as they think Europe has been bullish in trying to squeeze us into a second referendum as they don't like our first decision.
No country has ever escaped the EU after a no vote in the first referendum.

[cyril evans awaydays]

No country has ever escaped the EU after a no vote in the first referendum.

What do you mean by escaped the EU?

A territory (Greenland) left the EU after a single referendum and a number of other countries have ratified decisions against further integration on a single referendum such as Sweden and Denmarks' decision not to use the Euro. The overwhelming majority of referendums have been in favour of proposals or have ratified Treaties. The Danes held two votes on the Maastricht Treaty and the Irish two votes on the Treaties of Nice and Lisbon.

So the UK is the only country that has sought to escape the EU. Whether there is a second referendum is still a point of debate.

[Eric Cartman]

Wouldn't it be funny if no was even bigger this time around, lol.

I did a small poll recently amongst friends, etc about which way they'd vote again based on the remainers theory folks are more informed ,and it surprised me they were unchanged and most wanted out ,some even more than last time as they think Europe has been bullish in trying to squeeze us into a second referendum as they don't like our first decision.

Which out won?

[Eric Cartman]

Which out won?

Maybe this wasn't clear enough, which version of Brexit did the majority decide upon in your poll?

[cyril evans awaydays]

What do you mean by escaped the EU?

A territory (Greenland) left the EU after a single referendum and a number of other countries have ratified decisions against further integration on a single referendum such as Sweden and Denmarks' decision not to use the Euro. The overwhelming majority of referendums have been in favour of proposals or have ratified Treaties. The Danes held two votes on the Maastricht Treaty and the Irish two votes on the Treaties of Nice and Lisbon.

So the UK is the only country that has sought to escape the EU. Whether there is a second referendum is still a point of debate.

Maybe this wasn't clear enough either. Which country hasn't escaped the EU after a no vote in the first referendum?

[Wales-Bales]

Leaked Commons legal analysis of Brexit deal vindicates Trump, contradicts May and adds to Brexiteers’ concerns

https://brexitcentral.com/leaked-commons-legal-analysis-brexit-deal-vindicates-trump-contradicts-may-adds-brexiteers-concerns/

[Wales-Bales]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgspG6VAAAO6X3.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgspHBV4AEsuy7.jpg

[cyril evans awaydays]

Maybe this wasn't clear enough either. Which country hasn't escaped the EU after a no vote in the first referendum?

Ah the old "post something large and meaningless ploy" when challenged on something posted that is unsupported by facts.

[CardiffIrish2]

Ah the old "post something large and meaningless ploy" when challenged on something posted that is unsupported by facts.

I take it you didn’t mean to quote yourself Cyril 😉👍

[cyril evans awaydays]

I take it you didn’t mean to quote yourself Cyril ����

Just resurfacing the challenge that WB is dodging the other side of a page of deflection!

[CardiffIrish2]

Just resurfacing the challenge that WB is dodging the other side of a page of deflection!
I beg pardon 😉👍

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It's good to see Bercow going through the motions...

[Heathblue]

It's good to see Bercow going through the motions...

Has he stood up and had a shit ?

[Wales-Bales]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7qZhlrbcB8

[CardiffIrish2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7qZhlrbcB8

I really can’t see how David the coward Cameron can be used as any shred of credibility in the Brexit debate as he ****ed off like the shithouse he obviously was.

[Wales-Bales]

I really can’t see how David the coward Cameron can be used as any shred of credibility in the Brexit debate as he ****ed off like the shithouse he obviously was.
It was his referendum, he made the rules :biggrin:

[the other bob wilson]

A thought occurs to me, if all of the members of the Conservative and Unionist party who keep on going on about how the Union must be maintained were presented with an ultimatum which said the only way possible to maintain Northern Ireland as a part of the United Kingdom in the way that it is now was to abandon Brexit, what would they decide? With the weather the way it's been, I've been stuck in the house for the last couple of days and spent yesterday afternoon watching the debate on BBC Parliament. There were so many MPs who spoke about the backstop and how it was unacceptable to them because they were a Unionist, but what are their stronger beliefs, the Union or Brexit? We are close to the situation that I outlined above now, but I see little sign that there would be many who would put the Union above Brexit.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Has he stood up and had a shit ?

Well done for getting the double entendre...... :rolleyes:

[CardiffIrish2]

The betrayal of Brexit March sounds well attended.
About as much as we had for a Tuesday game against Rochdale in the 1990s.

Actually, sorry about that they’ve slightly more to be honest 😃

[Organ Morgan.]

Docility is why it's so easy for politicians to hoof Brexit into the ether. They understand people's commitment to it begun and ended with a trip to polling stations to place an X next to their preferred option.

[life on mars]

Vote being pulled

[life on mars]

Vote now is in the long grass .

[life on mars]

Latest , there may never be a meaningful vote at all .

[the other bob wilson]

Jon Snow on Twitter;-

"As May postpones/abandons her attempt to sell and win a vote on her Brexit deal, the faces on government benches are uniformly deeply glum: This moment represents a rock bottom low in British politics"

[Eric Cartman]

Feels like a lifetime but this was 3.5 years ago.

2777

[Wales-Bales]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EczIwFL-bUw

[Heathblue]

Brexit has become too toxic to discuss, this isn't going to end well.

[Eric Cartman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucJ6RPez06s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucJ6RPez06s

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Whatever one's views on Brexit it is an almighty nightmare now....

[cyril evans awaydays]

Whatever one's views on Brexit it is an almighty nightmare now....

You obviously don't work for a hedge fund or as a currency trader!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

You obviously don't work for a hedge fund or as a currency trader!

You are, as ever, enormously astute. I so much respect your posts on here, by the way. And you still have the energy to challenge a certain person on here that I gave up on some time time ago.......

[Wales-Bales]

You are, as ever, enormously astute. I so much respect your posts on here, by the way. And you still have the energy to challenge a certain person on here that I gave up on some time time ago.......
You had no option other than to give up, as you were digging yourself into an increasingly deeper hole. Tip: next time avoid being on the same side as Michael Avenatti :biggrin:

[the other bob wilson]

You had no option other than to give up, as you were digging yourself into an increasingly deeper hole. Tip: next time avoid being on the same side as Michael Avenatti :biggrin:

Yeah, look whats happened to you with Donald Trump.

[Organ Morgan.]

From what I gathered earlier from the radio, today's postponed vote must occur on or before January 21 next. That gives ample time for the central banking cartel to drop the pound to euro rate to parity or below to scare the plebs $hitless with full-time doom-monger Carney a certainty to interject with further tales of woe.

[Wales-Bales]

Yeah, look whats happened to you with Donald Trump.
What happened?

[cyril evans awaydays]

From what I gathered earlier from the radio, today's postponed vote must occur on or before January 21 next. That gives ample time for the central banking cartel to drop the pound to euro rate to parity or below to scare the plebs $hitless with full-time doom-monger Carney a certainty to interject with further tales of woe.

Apart from the fact that the Government no longer has to make a statement on No Deal by 21st January as it met its commitment to make a statement on the political declaration previously and May ran scared from Parliamentarians not plebs then this argument has a lot to commend it.

[cyril evans awaydays]

What happened?

Nothing, despite everything. I think that is Bob's point!

[Wales-Bales]

Nothing, despite everything. I think that is Bob's point!
From where did you get the idea that nothing is happening?

[Eric Cartman]

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/4157ad90-cdf8-4289-9b89-f2c7ded19d1b?in=11:46:40&out=11:47:15

Get back to the spreadsheets Phil.

[Organ Morgan.]

May's deal or no deal decision being stalled after 2.5 years of this tedious saga was probably the script from the off. Some contrived crisis is required to swing the vote. Bombing the pound's value on FX fits the bill.

[cyril evans awaydays]

From where did you get the idea that nothing is happening?

Your right for a change, let me rephrase what I originally said.

What happened?

Lots, the more that gets revealed about Trump's henchmen, the closer this leads to Trump and the more manic Trump gets on his twitter feed the more sycophantic and apologetic WB becomes!

That better?

[Wales-Bales]

Your right for a change, let me rephrase what I originally said.

What happened?

Lots, the more that gets revealed about Trump's henchmen, the closer this leads to Trump and the more manic Trump gets on his twitter feed the more sycophantic and apologetic WB becomes!

That better?
Thanks for the update, I look forward to seeing your version of events unfold.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

You had no option other than to give up, as you were digging yourself into an increasingly deeper hole. Tip: next time avoid being on the same side as Michael Avenatti :biggrin:

Your usual self-deluded bollocks.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

You had no option other than to give up, as you were digging yourself into an increasingly deeper hole. Tip: next time avoid being on the same side as Michael Avenatti :biggrin:

Your usual self-delusional bollocks.

[Wales-Bales]

Your usual self-deluded bollocks.
Talking of self-delusion, you're the one who fell for the scam!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Talking of self-delusion, you're the one who fell for the scam!

I didn't fall for any scam. I merely stated that Kavanaugh was unsuitable for the office he was seeking. I won't bother following up on any reply you may post as you twist and turn and misrepresent poster's positions whilst posting bollocks that you are challenged about and do everything you can to squirm out of. I caught you out several times myself but your ego probably prevented you from realising. However, it's great to see Cyril embarrassing you on almost a daily basis.

[Wales-Bales]

I didn't fall for any scam. I merely stated that Kavanaugh was unsuitable for the office he was seeking. I won't bother following up on any reply you may post as you twist and turn and misrepresent poster's positions whilst posting bollocks that you are challenged about and do everything you can to squirm out of. I caught you out several times myself but your ego probably prevented you from realising. However, it's great to see Cyril embarrassing you on almost a daily basis.
So Kavanaugh shouldn't have defended himself against all of those dodgy allegations?

What has Cyril embarrassed me on? This game is far from over, and if Cyril is right, then so is the fake news media, as he just repeats everything that they say :biggrin:

[Organ Morgan.]

So Kavanaugh shouldn't have defended himself against all of those dodgy allegations?

What has Cyril embarrassed me on? This game is far from over, and if Cyril is right, then so is the fake news media, as he just repeats everything that they say :biggrin:

An astute observation. He desperately wants to keep believing the state is his friend. Try not to take him too seriously. Humour him like a daft but harmless distant cousin you occasionally have to endure at family gatherings.

[cyril evans awaydays]

An astute observation. He desperately wants to keep believing the state is his friend. Try not to take him too seriously. Humour him like a daft but harmless distant cousin you occasionally have to endure at occasional family gatherings.

I am sad that I was not living a rather meaningless life until wandering into a cinema showing a Warner Brothers blockbuster starring Keanu Reeves. If I had not only would it have given me purpose and direction but also the superpower to see what other lesser beings could not see (plus a free lifelong subscription to Info-Wars and Sputnik).

[Wales-Bales]

I am sad that I was not living a rather meaningless life until wandering into a cinema showing a Warner Brothers blockbuster starring Keanu Reeves. If I had not only would it have given me purpose and direction but also the superpower to see what other lesser beings could not see (plus a free lifelong subscription to Info-Wars and Sputnik).
Lardy has already been down the path that you are blindly following. Didn't it cross your mind to compare notes? :biggrin:

[cyril evans awaydays]

Lardy has already been down the path that you are blindly following. Didn't it cross your mind to compare notes? :biggrin:

You must like the odd post when Organ doesn't patronise you I guess!

[Wales-Bales]

May says she is going to stand down before the 2022 election. It won't really matter though, as she will have already handed over power to those nice people in Brussels by then.

[Heathblue]

May says she is going to stand down before the 2022 election. It won't really matter though, as she will have already handed over power to those nice people in Brussels by then.

Sometimes iits what you don't know that really matters 😉

[the other bob wilson]

I think this is a very good article.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/britain-has-led-a-charmed-political-life-but-there-is-a-price-to-pay-for-complacency

[life on mars]

I think this is a very good article.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/britain-has-led-a-charmed-political-life-but-there-is-a-price-to-pay-for-complacency

Yes it is , I think the UK has lead a charmed life in the European zone and now were self destructing, they must be chuckling on the continent .

[Heathblue]

So Kavanaugh shouldn't have defended himself against all of those dodgy allegations?

What has Cyril embarrassed me on? This game is far from over, and if Cyril is right, then so is the fake news media, as he just repeats everything that they say :biggrin:


Wouldn't be surprised if Thumper will be getting another new SC judge pretty soon, RGB has already declared she's retiring in January, that's presuming of course that she's not already on ice and is just being held back for a suitable event, what happened to that Kav geezer was disgusting, his life was played out to the world just because they never thought she would lose, he will have had 3 picks when she's gone, they managed to arkancide Scalise, not sure they would be able arkancide 3 more after 2020 assuming they win, I would guess that Bernie would have won it by a distance, if the Barry Soetoro/ Clinton/Bush NWO dynasty had allowed the democratic process to take place.

[Elwood Blues]

Wouldn't be surprised if Thumper will be getting another new SC judge pretty soon, RGB has already declared she's retiring in January, that's presuming of course that she's not already on ice and is just being held back for a suitable event, what happened to that Kav geezer was disgusting, his life was played out to the world just because they never thought she would lose, he will have had 3 picks when she's gone, they managed to arkancide Scalise, not sure they would be able arkancide 3 more after 2020 assuming they win, I would guess that Bernie would have won it by a distance, if the Barry Soetoro/ Clinton/Bush NWO dynasty had allowed the democratic process to take place.

Why are these Donald Trump posts going in a Brexit thread when there is already a separate thread on Trump?????????

[the other bob wilson]

Why are these Donald Trump posts going in a Brexit thread when there is already a separate thread on Trump?????????

That thought occurred to me as well - anyway, something to get the thread back on subject.

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-uk-golden-dumbass-award-2018-heute-show-germany-oliver-welke-eu-8687356

[Eric Cartman]

That thought occurred to me as well - anyway, something to get the thread back on subject.

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-uk-golden-dumbass-award-2018-heute-show-germany-oliver-welke-eu-8687356

How rude, we never make funny of Germans or Germany.

Bullies!!!

Thankfully we hold all the cards in the negotiations, should only be a matter of time before they come begging for a free trade agreement.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

'Vollpfosten' has been translated as 'dumbass', which is very American. I would suggest that 'total plank(s)' would be a tad more British, old fruits.

[CardiffIrish2]

So it’s talk of putting the army on standby today.
These sunlit uplands of Brexit just get better and better fair play!

[Rogersblue]

So it’s talk of putting the army on standby today.
These sunlit uplands of Brexit just get better and better fair play!

just to stop you remainers from throwing your toys out of the pram if we leave without a deal.:hehe:

[life on mars]

just to stop you remainers from throwing your toys out of the pram if we leave without a deal.:hehe:

All part of the long game .

[Eric Cartman]

A guy I sit opposite has been talking on and off about getting an Irish passport for a few months, he qualifies via family connections. Obviously I assumed he was a remainer, nope! Turns out he thought long and hard but decided to vote Brexit.

Is there any way I can convince the Irish government not to give him a passport?

[life on mars]

A guy I sit opposite has been talking on and off about getting an Irish passport for a few months, he qualifies via family connections. Obviously I assumed he was a remainer, nope! Turns out he thought long and hard but decided to vote Brexit.

Is there any way I can convince the Irish government not to give him a passport?

I had a similar conversation when someone asked me if our family had Irish parentage :

I said why .

They replied I want an Irish passport , because of Brexit.

I asked why ,

They replied to go holiday.

I replied ,really ?

[life on mars]

When did the Daily Mail become a leftist newspaper?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsE6XMxWsAA1h62.jpg

Brexit was a cross party vote I'm informed ?

[CardiffIrish2]

Two Brexiters making fools of themselves in less then 24 hrs....
https://twitter.com/ofocbrexit/status/1088596250864336896?s=21

https://twitter.com/cliodiaspora/status/1088829150989819904?s=21

[the other bob wilson]

Two Brexiters making fools of themselves in less then 24 hrs....
https://twitter.com/ofocbrexit/status/1088596250864336896?s=21

https://twitter.com/cliodiaspora/status/1088829150989819904?s=21

To be fair to the guy in the first clip, he was very decisive with his I don't know answer to the last question he was asked and he came a distant second to the bloke in the other clip in the who's the biggest pompous prat out of the two competition.

[life on mars]

See sterling heading upwards, someone knows something ,rumours that May's deal is being flexed .

[Eric Cartman]

See sterling heading upwards, someone knows something ,rumours that May's deal is being flexed .

Don't think it is that. Extension of Article 50 seems likely allowing for some better options and crushing the possibility of no deal. Odds on Betfair exchange of leaving on 29th March is 4/1, that doesn't sound like a deal likely to be voted through to me...

[the other bob wilson]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/25/rees-mogg-brexit-emergency

[Swiss Peter]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/25/rees-mogg-brexit-emergency

“My father, Reginald Francois, was a D-day veteran,” he thundered to the news cameras on Friday, shortly before ripping up the aforementioned document. “He never submitted to bullying by any German. Neither will his son.”

Surely even some of those of a pro-Brexit persuasion must be embarrassed by this sort of shite from one of their standard bearers. (Or maybe not...)

[life on mars]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/25/rees-mogg-brexit-emergency

What a dreadful individual, I've been convinced for a while half of these quotes are done in a alcoholic stupor.

[life on mars]

Brexit solved :


Irish ministers have dismissed a suggestion from a radio presenter that the best way to end the Brexit impasse is for an “Irexit” which would see the country leave the EU to join the UK.

[CardiffIrish2]

Brexit solved :


Irish ministers have dismissed a suggestion from a radio presenter that the best way to end the Brexit impasse is for an “Irexit” which would see the country leave the EU to join the UK.


John Humphries said it the other day in the most condescending arsehole type of way imaginable.