Brexit and trade

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Have I got this right?

There was a woman on LBC the other day demonstrating how Tim Martin of Wetherspoon fame had managed to source cheaper alternative produce for his pubs from other parts of the world. This was seen as proof of the opportunities that exist beyond Brexit.

However, the woman failed to understand and acknowledge that Martin's acquisitions exist BECAUSE we are members of the EU and, through that membership and the trade deals that exist between the EU and other nations, he was able to bring in cheaper goods to his pubs.

If we leave without a deal, we default to WTO tariffs, which will mean that all of Martin's bargain buys will no longer be available at the same great rates that we enjoy as part of EU membership.

Of course, we are then free to negotiate with other countries to have our own individual trade deals. These usually take many years to complete, despite us being told otherwise. I'd like to know how the UK, population of around 66 million can get better trade deals with the rest of the world than the EU, with 27 member countries and a population of hundreds of millions. What can we offer that's better than the rest of Europe combined? Is it turning our economy into a low wage, hard work economy to be able to compete?

There's also the issues of tariffs, which some describe as inhibitive. If we decide to drop tariffs unilateraly many years after we've left and all trade deals are in place, how does Britain protect itself from cheap imports? I have friends who are farmers and they believe they'll be wiped out by us being to import cheaper meat.

[RonnieBird]

A marketplace of 66 million comparitvely wealthy people with an economy which by necessity is going to expand is an attractive target for anyone, and a big loss to the EU.
Without the EU we managed to create the industrial revolution , gain an empire which covered 1/3 of the Globe and remained one of the three super powers within my memory. We really need not doubt our ability to function independently.

Now , I address this subject reluctantly because I think all the arguments have been made to a point where it's unlikely that anyone is going to change their minds. Sadly it seems that it cannot be settled by voting since the minority refuse to accept the democratic outcome, and very sadly we know where that leads historically.

As far as your proposition goes, it's rather like discussing the outcome of a football match. We all love to do it and we all have our views, but in the end the outcome will be determined by what happens during the game and our predictions will count for nothing .

Can we , as a nation, go out into the world and compete without German supervision ?

I'm certain that we can, just as you seem certain that we cannot and we won't know till we try. Before that though, we must settle the question of whether the British People , who have voted for Home Rule and independence will be allowed to have their democratically expressed wish, and how much strife there will be before that is permitted.

[Eric Cartman]

A marketplace of 66 million comparitvely wealthy people with an economy which by necessity is going to expand is an attractive target for anyone, and a big loss to the EU.
Without the EU we managed to create the industrial revolution , gain an empire which covered 1/3 of the Globe and remained one of the three super powers within my memory. We really need not doubt our ability to function independently.

Now , I address this subject reluctantly because I think all the arguments have been made to a point where it's unlikely that anyone is going to change their minds. Sadly it seems that it cannot be settled by voting since the minority refuse to accept the democratic outcome, and very sadly we know where that leads historically.

As far as your proposition goes, it's rather like discussing the outcome of a football match. We all love to do it and we all have our views, but in the end the outcome will be determined by what happens during the game and our predictions will count for nothing .

Can we , as a nation, go out into the world and compete without German supervision ?

I'm certain that we can, just as you seem certain that we cannot and we won't know till we try. Before that though, we must settle the question of whether the British People , who have voted for Home Rule and independence will be allowed to have their democratically expressed wish, and how much strife there will be before that is permitted.

When is the debate on Hitler being a socialist starting Ronnie?

[Eric Cartman]

Have I got this right?

There was a woman on LBC the other day demonstrating how Tim Martin of Wetherspoon fame had managed to source cheaper alternative produce for his pubs from other parts of the world. This was seen as proof of the opportunities that exist beyond Brexit.

However, the woman failed to understand and acknowledge that Martin's acquisitions exist BECAUSE we are members of the EU and, through that membership and the trade deals that exist between the EU and other nations, he was able to bring in cheaper goods to his pubs.

If we leave without a deal, we default to WTO tariffs, which will mean that all of Martin's bargain buys will no longer be available at the same great rates that we enjoy as part of EU membership.

Of course, we are then free to negotiate with other countries to have our own individual trade deals. These usually take many years to complete, despite us being told otherwise. I'd like to know how the UK, population of around 66 million can get better trade deals with the rest of the world than the EU, with 27 member countries and a population of hundreds of millions. What can we offer that's better than the rest of Europe combined? Is it turning our economy into a low wage, hard work economy to be able to compete?

There's also the issues of tariffs, which some describe as inhibitive. If we decide to drop tariffs unilateraly many years after we've left and all trade deals are in place, how does Britain protect itself from cheap imports? I have friends who are farmers and they believe they'll be wiped out by us being to import cheaper meat.

Ronnie has one thing spot on, no one is moving on the issue. The woman who phoned into LBC got politely demolished and still left thinking that they 'agreed to disagree'.

Brexit should have been about a populace weighing up the pro's and con's and casting a vote unfortunately for years people have been convincing others who don't have the mental faculties to perform such analysis to pick a single issue and vote on that. This time they all took that advice, turned out to vote and the rest is history.

I can remember sitting in the office with my head in my hands before the 2015 election as a colleague with a diasabled daughter and whose husband is an estate agent was convinced to pick a single issue and vote on that. She chose 'rent controls' because that would possibly affect her husband's income and life has become infinitely harder for disabled youngsters like her daughter because of it.

People who pick a single issue and vote are begging to be conned.

[the other bob wilson]

A marketplace of 66 million comparitvely wealthy people with an economy which by necessity is going to expand is an attractive target for anyone, and a big loss to the EU.
Without the EU we managed to create the industrial revolution , gain an empire which covered 1/3 of the Globe and remained one of the three super powers within my memory. We really need not doubt our ability to function independently.

Now , I address this subject reluctantly because I think all the arguments have been made to a point where it's unlikely that anyone is going to change their minds. Sadly it seems that it cannot be settled by voting since the minority refuse to accept the democratic outcome, and very sadly we know where that leads historically.

As far as your proposition goes, it's rather like discussing the outcome of a football match. We all love to do it and we all have our views, but in the end the outcome will be determined by what happens during the game and our predictions will count for nothing .

Can we , as a nation, go out into the world and compete without German supervision ?

I'm certain that we can, just as you seem certain that we cannot and we won't know till we try. Before that though, we must settle the question of whether the British People , who have voted for Home Rule and independence will be allowed to have their democratically expressed wish, and how much strife there will be before that is permitted.


According to this

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/how-many-people-live-in-the-eu/

There were 508 million people living in the EU in 2015. So, by taking away our 66 million, you get the total population of the other EU members. Therefore, if you were to substitute 442 million for 66 million and change the letters EU for U.K. In your first sentence, it seems to me that, by using your logic, we could also swap the word "big" for, say, the word "gigantic" because this is what we face with a no deal Brexit especially.

Also, although it has been harder to maintain this position as time has passed since June 2016 and the vote to Leave has been hijacked by the Zealots to mean authorisation of a no deal Brexit, I still feel the result of the vote should be respected and a negotiated Brexit delivered. However, given what Nigel Farage was saying prior to the vote in 2016

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

I can completely understand why there are so many who are pushing for a second referendum.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: the Mirror article you quote:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...rendum-7985017

This confirms to me what I believe was Cameron's BIG mistake. For a referendum of this importance he should have insisted on a two thirds majority either way.

[RonnieBird]

According to this

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/how-many-people-live-in-the-eu/

There were 508 million people living in the EU in 2015. So, by taking away our 66 million, you get the total population of the other EU members. Therefore, if you were to substitute 442 million for 66 million and change the letters EU for U.K. In your first sentence, it seems to me that, by using your logic, we could also swap the word "big" for, say, the word "gigantic" because this is what we face with a no deal Brexit especially.

Also, although it has been harder to maintain this position as time has passed since June 2016 and the vote to Leave has been hijacked by the Zealots to mean authorisation of a no deal Brexit, I still feel the result of the vote should be respected and a negotiated Brexit delivered. However, given what Nigel Farage was saying prior to the vote in 2016

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

I can completely understand why there are so many who are pushing for a second referendum.


It took me a while to understand what you meant in the first part, but I think you misunderstood my point.

I was pointing out that our economy is big enough to be an attractive marketplace or trading partner for anyone.

Many many countries will want to trade with us without insisting that we let them make our laws for us. Similarly , the EU won't want to disadvantage itself in this respect once it's been made clear that they can't blackmail us over trade deals which we can get elshere in any case.

I say all this just to clarify, but I repeat that there's little point in anyone debating it any longer since there's not a political resolution available as long as a few MPs remain determined to block the democratic vote at any price.

I will say, though, that the referendum was about leaving or staying, and not in any way dependent upon any deal.

[RonnieBird]

Re: the Mirror article you quote:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...rendum-7985017

This confirms to me what I believe was Cameron's BIG mistake. For a referendum of this importance he should have insisted on a two thirds majority either way.

Article won't load, but if we'd done that we'd be having weekly re runs because neither side would get two thirds.
You probably mean they should have made it two thirds to leave, but that would have been cheating. Mind you , I don't think remain are bothered about cheating so I expect it'd be popular with them.

[RonnieBird]

When is the debate on Hitler being a socialist starting Ronnie?

Yes I'd forgotten about that.
How about the fact that he took away the rights of individuals and put everything in the hands of an all powerful state just to start you rolling ?

[Eric Cartman]

Yes I'd forgotten about that.
How about the fact that he took away the rights of individuals and put everything in the hands of an all powerful state just to start you rolling ?

That is a meaningless statement in the context of socialism. That would make Theresa May a socialist.

[Wales-Bales]

That is a meaningless statement in the context of socialism. That would make Theresa May a socialist.
Well spotted! She definately ain't a Tory :biggrin:

[Gofer Blue]

Article won't load, but if we'd done that we'd be having weekly re runs because neither side would get two thirds.
You probably mean they should have made it two thirds to leave, but that would have been cheating. Mind you , I don't think remain are bothered about cheating so I expect it'd be popular with them.

No I didn't mean that. If neither side achieved a two thirds majority then it would be status quo (like the Scottish independence referendum). Wait another 5 years, gauge public opinion, then try again. I think at the time Cameron & Co really thought there would be a landslide victory for the Remainers. I'm sure they didn't expect it to be so tight, certainly not a victory for the Brexiteers!

[Eric Cartman]

Well spotted! She definately ain't a Tory :biggrin:

What has she done that makes you think that?

[Wales-Bales]

What has she done that makes you think that?
She is whatever Blair is in this red v blue pantomime.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

A marketplace of 66 million comparitvely wealthy people with an economy which by necessity is going to expand is an attractive target for anyone, and a big loss to the EU.
Without the EU we managed to create the industrial revolution , gain an empire which covered 1/3 of the Globe and remained one of the three super powers within my memory. We really need not doubt our ability to function independently.

Now , I address this subject reluctantly because I think all the arguments have been made to a point where it's unlikely that anyone is going to change their minds. Sadly it seems that it cannot be settled by voting since the minority refuse to accept the democratic outcome, and very sadly we know where that leads historically.

As far as your proposition goes, it's rather like discussing the outcome of a football match. We all love to do it and we all have our views, but in the end the outcome will be determined by what happens during the game and our predictions will count for nothing .

Can we , as a nation, go out into the world and compete without German supervision ?

I'm certain that we can, just as you seem certain that we cannot and we won't know till we try. Before that though, we must settle the question of whether the British People , who have voted for Home Rule and independence will be allowed to have their democratically expressed wish, and how much strife there will be before that is permitted.

So nothing about the post I actually made then? Sounds normal W-B.

[Wales-Bales]

So nothing about the post I actually made then? Sounds normal W-B.
Been on the pop again EtHaB? :biggrin:

[RonnieBird]

https://youtu.be/oHpXjm78Pjs
That is a meaningless statement in the context of socialism. That would make Theresa May a socialist.

Well I'd argue that Theresa May is a kind of socialist insofar as she's a globalist , and they operate as fake socialists using the mechanisms of socialism to mask power grabbing .

As far as Hitler is concerned this clip explains and saves me writing an essay.

[RonnieBird]

So nothing about the post I actually made then? Sounds normal W-B.

It's got everything to do with what you posted. Specifically you mentioned Weatherspoons I think, but my reply covered the wider view, that's all.

I know you mean well and you probably think remain would be best - it's just a matter of judgement really.

Unfortunately of course, we must consider how wide of the mark you are on the Wales Bales thing in weighing your ability to make judgements mustn't we ?

Think of it like this, W-B and Ronnie B must -ipso facto - half NOT be....... You see ?

[RonnieBird]

Is this wretched demi bee, who doesn't like democracy, a freak from some menagerie ?

[life on mars]

When is the debate on Hitler being a socialist starting Ronnie?

No debate needed ,history tells us :
Nazism (or National Socialism; German: Nationalsozialismus) is a set of political beliefs associated with the Nazi Party of Germany. It started in the 1920s. Party gained power in 1933, starting the Third Reich. They lasted in Germany until 1945, at the end of World War II.

[City123]

No debate needed ,history tells us :
Nazism (or National Socialism; German: Nationalsozialismus) is a set of political beliefs associated with the Nazi Party of Germany. It started in the 1920s. Party gained power in 1933, starting the Third Reich. They lasted in Germany until 1945, at the end of World War II.
History also tells us that the Nazi Party abolished trade unions and were completely opposed to universal equality, that members of the Social Democratic Party and Communist Party in Germany were imprisoned in concentration camps and that Gregor Strasser, the only leading Socialist in the party was murdered in the Night of the Long Knives

[Eric Cartman]

https://youtu.be/oHpXjm78Pjs

Well I'd argue that Theresa May is a kind of socialist insofar as she's a globalist , and they operate as fake socialists using the mechanisms of socialism to mask power grabbing .

As far as Hitler is concerned this clip explains and saves me writing an essay.

He actually wrote an essay and I have read it before. What he described in it was totalitarianism in my opinion although he didn't actually provide a lot of evidence for the claims he was making about government interference in private industry either (however likely they seem).

If your (or his, as it seems) point is that Nazi Germany is an example of community ownership and regulation of the means of production then you are vastly overestimating the freedom and influence that the average German person had during this period.

I don't doubt it fits your warped view of socialism but the fact I knew what you were going to post before you did suggests this view isn't widely held.

[RonnieBird]

He actually wrote an essay and I have read it before. What he described in it was totalitarianism in my opinion although he didn't actually provide a lot of evidence for the claims he was making about government interference in private industry either (however likely they seem).

If your (or his, as it seems) point is that Nazi Germany is an example of community ownership and regulation of the means of production then you are vastly overestimating the freedom and influence that the average German person had during this period.

I don't doubt it fits your warped view of socialism but the fact I knew what you were going to post before you did suggests this view isn't widely held.



Well you see , I have both a personal view of socialism and what I'm fairly confident is an understanding of its nature and history. They're quite different things, the former being formed by the latter.

The fact that you choose to describe either as "warped" speaks volumes though. Since I haven't set either out, I can deduce that you are offended - and PERSONALLY offended -by the very fact that someone has questioned that philosophy . Interesting then, that you used the term " totalitarianism" in your post, because such a reaction to dissent is an indication of that.

Rational men can discuss matters and perhaps learn something from such conversations, but you can never convince a fanatic of any type to consider alternative views.

I did say at the outset that there was little point in arguing the toss on the point because I suspected that your beliefs were pretty set in stone, and your somewhat angry response bears that out.

Incidentally , and I digress entirely , if you knew what I was going to post before I did that suggests either that you're psychic or that the view must be quite widely held because you'd apparently heard it expressed before.

That said, the test of truth really isn't how widely something is believed, but whether it's true.

[Eric Cartman]

Well you see , I have both a personal view of socialism and what I'm fairly confident is an understanding of its nature and history. They're quite different things, the former being formed by the latter.

The fact that you choose to describe either as "warped" speaks volumes though. Since I haven't set either out, I can deduce that you are offended - and PERSONALLY offended -by the very fact that someone has questioned that philosophy . Interesting then, that you used the term " totalitarianism" in your post, because such a reaction to dissent is an indication of that.

Rational men can discuss matters and perhaps learn something from such conversations, but you can never convince a fanatic of any type to consider alternative views.

I did say at the outset that there was little point in arguing the toss on the point because I suspected that your beliefs were pretty set in stone, and your somewhat angry response bears that out.

Incidentally , and I digress entirely , if you knew what I was going to post before I did that suggests either that you're psychic or that the view must be quite widely held because you'd apparently heard it expressed before.

That said, the test of truth really isn't how widely something is believed, but whether it's true.

It doesn't have a history, it is an ideology, a textbook definition. There are instances of it being implemented by people who inevitably use the conditions created to help themselves.

I feel the need to point that out because the majority of people who denounce the concept socialism using evidence of historical implementations do so with the intention of explaining why things simply can't be more equal in our society. It is nonsense and creates this polarisation, you have to nail your colours to one mast or the other despite your true positon being somewhere in the middle.

That being said, you still haven't convinced me that Hitler implemented a socialist model. On my psychic abilities you miss my point, this guy is almost the only academic who agrees with you and I have read his paper on this topic so it was likely to be where you were going.

Oh and on the issue of fanaticism. In multiple threads now you have trotted out the 'socialism is evil' shtick despite it having not much relevance. You are the one who sounds fanatical, I am simply trying to bring you back to reality my friend.

[the other bob wilson]

It's got everything to do with what you posted. Specifically you mentioned Weatherspoons I think, but my reply covered the wider view, that's all.

I know you mean well and you probably think remain would be best - it's just a matter of judgement really.

Unfortunately of course, we must consider how wide of the mark you are on the Wales Bales thing in weighing your ability to make judgements mustn't we ?

Think of it like this, W-B and Ronnie B must -ipso facto - half NOT be....... You see ?

There's only two posters on here who know for certain whether you and Wales Bales are the same person, but most sane, "normal" people would conclude when reading a post in the name of Wales Bales that reads like it was posted by you that you are. That's the evidence that brought about these claims and so, in a matter which, let's face it, is not very important in the grand scheme of things, when it comes to cock up v conspiracy, people, hardly surprisingly, opt for a pretty funny versio of the former.

Aha! Poor, deluded fools that they are, they have fallen into your trap! According to the one or two of you, the whole thing is some sort of experiment designed to prove how gullible people are when faced with a subtle ploy laid by the master puppeteer (at least that's how he sees himself) that is Wales Bales, while you, who, as a great conjurer would say, have never met this man in my life, are perfectly happy to be his stooge.

Those are the two possibilities then - seems to me that either one of them amount to distinctly odd behaviour.

[the other bob wilson]

It doesn't have a history, it is an ideology, a textbook definition. There are instances of it being implemented by people who inevitably use the conditions created to help themselves.

I feel the need to point that out because the majority of people who denounce the concept socialism using evidence of historical implementations do so with the intention of explaining why things simply can't be more equal in our society. It is nonsense and creates this polarisation, you have to nail your colours to one mast or the other despite your true positon being somewhere in the middle.

That being said, you still haven't convinced me that Hitler implemented a socialist model. On my psychic abilities you miss my point, this guy is almost the only academic who agrees with you and I have read his paper on this topic so it was likely to be where you were going.

Oh and on the issue of fanaticism. In multiple threads now you have trotted out the 'socialism is evil' shtick despite it having not much relevance. You are the one who sounds fanatical, I am simply trying to bring you back to reality my friend.

There's a poster on here that you may know intimately who, despite telling us for the past couple of years that there is no such thing as right and left in politics any more, has recently taken to throwing around labels such as "socialist" and "communist" willynilly. He's started doing this presumably because Donald Trump and the alt right have started to use those terms to describe anyone who isn't on their side - hence the absurdity in this thread whereby Theresa May, someone whose political reputation floundered because of her desire to put the Conservative party before the country, is a socialist.

When I read some of the great puppet masters posts these days, I can't help but think of him as a Rick from the Young Ones in reverse - switch the word "facist" for "socialist" or "communist" in this video and you could be watching Wales Bales!


https://youtu.be/ruOGeIZHTRw

[CardiffIrish2]

There's a poster on here that you may know intimately who, despite telling us for the past couple of years that there is no such thing as right and left in politics any more, has recently taken to throwing around labels such as "socialist" and "communist" willynilly. He's started doing this presumably because Donald Trump and the alt right have started to use those terms to describe anyone who isn't on their side - hence the absurdity in this thread whereby Theresa May, someone whose political reputation floundered because of her desire to put the Conservative party before the country, is a socialist.

When I read some of the great puppet masters posts these days, I can't help but think of him as a Rick from the Young Ones in reverse - switch the word "facist" for "socialist" or "communist" in this video and you could be watching Wales Bales!


https://youtu.be/ruOGeIZHTRw

Ha ha yes it’s ‘Wik’ alright 😂😂

[RonnieBird]

There's only two posters on here who know for certain whether you and Wales Bales are the same person, but most sane, "normal" people would conclude when reading a post in the name of Wales Bales that reads like it was posted by you that you are. That's the evidence that brought about these claims and so, in a matter which, let's face it, is not very important in the grand scheme of things, when it comes to cock up v conspiracy, people, hardly surprisingly, opt for a pretty funny versio of the former.

Aha! Poor, deluded fools that they are, they have fallen into your trap! According to the one or two of you, the whole thing is some sort of experiment designed to prove how gullible people are when faced with a subtle ploy laid by the master puppeteer (at least that's how he sees himself) that is Wales Bales, while you, who, as a great conjurer would say, have never met this man in my life, are perfectly happy to be his stooge.

Those are the two possibilities then - seems to me that either one of them amount to distinctly odd behaviour.


Ah, but it's not fair to accuse me of anything in all this .

Yes I can see that Wales Bales is a bit more intelligent than his adversaries and so I can work out by reading the posts that he's taken their rather stupid conclusions and led them on - giving then the rope to hang themselves as we used to say.

I've done nothing to encourage any of this except unwittingly express opinions which are apparently similar to his, and do so in a similar language and style . I've posted an app which anyone could use to establish whether I'm Wales Bales, and in fact I've pm'd the moderator asking that he check and post the result . I can do no more, and I've never taken any part in any " schemes" or acted as anyone's " stooge".

I've no idea who Wales Bales is, but perhaps he is the product of a similar education or background to me. Such commonalities sometimes result in similar styles and even similar views.

I wonder whether you'd be kind enough, then, to withdraw your statement that I have taken part in " distinctly odd behaviour ", or explain why ANY of this is my fault.

[the other bob wilson]

Ah, but it's not fair to accuse me of anything in all this .

Yes I can see that Wales Bales is a bit more intelligent than his adversaries and so I can work out by reading the posts that he's taken their rather stupid conclusions and led them on - giving then the rope to hang themselves as we used to say.

I've done nothing to encourage any of this except unwittingly express opinions which are apparently similar to his, and do so in a similar language and style . I've posted an app which anyone could use to establish whether I'm Wales Bales, and in fact I've pm'd the moderator asking that he check and post the result . I can do no more, and I've never taken any part in any " schemes" or acted as anyone's " stooge".

I've no idea who Wales Bales is, but perhaps he is the product of a similar education or background to me. Such commonalities sometimes result in similar styles and even similar views.

I wonder whether you'd be kind enough, then, to withdraw your statement that I have taken part in " distinctly odd behaviour ", or explain why ANY of this is my fault.

All I'll say about that lot is that if I was a new poster on a site and, within a day or two of me starting to post someone had posted something like Wales Bales did, I would be asking what on earth is going on, not praising the person who used my name in vain for being so clever. As I say, distinctly odd behaviour by Wales Bales either way (but I've become used to that) and distinctly odd behaviour by you if you really aren't him.

[RonnieBird]

I think I did ask what on earth was going on. I think I did invite you to check it and post you a link to an app where you could do that.
Let me ask you a question then , what exactly would you have done to resolve it ?

Yes , Wales bales was a bit mischievous tying these nutters up in knots and using a web they'd spun to do it, but in fairness he didn't start it, did he ? I came in here in all good faith , I didn't do anything wrong and a few people who obviously had history with WB immediately started going for me.

He made them look like the stupid oafs which I regret to say they apparently are, ( based on the way they've ganged up on me for no reason), and so yes I can appreciate his guile and intelligence. He hasn't trolled me or insulted me as this bunch of nutters have, so yes I would tend to take his side , wouldn't I ?

If you'd like to suggest any way in which I can prove I'm not WB, ( which I certainly shouldn't have to) , let me know and I'll do it just for the sake of stopping this bloody nonsense.

You're a respected figure who's run a Cardiff City blog I was aware of before I'd heard of WB or this forum, so you're the last person I'd expect to be joining in this crap. Don't misunderstand this - I'm not complaining because I'm very much big and ugly enough to stand up fir myself and so it won't effect me in that way, but the whole thing is no more than common or garden bullying , or attempted bullying anyway. I think I'm able to tell enough about you from your writings here and on your blog to think that you wouldn't deliberately take part in that, so I honestly wish you'd think it through again.

[jon1959]

All I'll say about that lot is that if I was a new poster on a site and, within a day or two of me starting to post someone had posted something like Wales Bales did, I would be asking what on earth is going on, not praising the person who used my name in vain for being so clever. As I say, distinctly odd behaviour by Wales Bales either way (but I've become used to that) and distinctly odd behaviour by you if you really aren't him.

3179

:hehe:

[RonnieBird]

3179

:hehe:


Okay.... And may we regard this as a test of your judgement in other matters you might comment upon from time to time ?

[PontBlue]

You are correct in that Wetherspoons have used trade deals negotiated by the EU to source cheaper products from non-EU countries.

It is also true that we will lose access to these trade agreements should we leave the EU without a deal.

As Ronnie/WB points put we can negotiate trade deals with any German supervision.

However, when negotiating any deal I would rather have the clout of a 508m potential customers rather than 66m customers.

[RonnieBird]

You are correct in that Wetherspoons have used trade deals negotiated by the EU to source cheaper products from non-EU countries.

It is also true that we will lose access to these trade agreements should we leave the EU without a deal.

As Ronnie/WB points put we can negotiate trade deals with any German supervision.

However, when negotiating any deal I would rather have the clout of a 508m potential customers rather than 66m customers.



That's not entirely valid because a market is either big enough to be worth going for or not big enough to be worth going for, and 66m is.
Are you also volunteering for the dunce's cap regarding myself and WB then ?

[Eric Cartman]

That's not entirely valid because a market is either big enough to be worth going for or not big enough to be worth going for, and 66m is.
Are you also volunteering for the dunce's cap regarding myself and WB then ?

So every country with a population of more than X has exactly the same clout in trade negotiations?

What is X?

[RonnieBird]

That's be variable, wouldn't it ? There'd be a lot of other factors too of course, such as language and political stability, geographical location etc etc ad inf.

If your figure of X existed , it'd be a lot lower than 66m though.

Let's not forget that this figure someone quoted of 508m or whatever it was includes Greece and a lot of East European shithole countries with no spending power, but which require constant subsidies from more developed economies shackled to them in the EU.

We'd also be likely to be a lot less regulated than the EU once transitional measures lapse and thus easier to deal with.

[the other bob wilson]

That's be variable, wouldn't it ? There'd be a lot of other factors too of course, such as language and political stability, geographical location etc etc ad inf.

If your figure of X existed , it'd be a lot lower than 66m though.

Let's not forget that this figure someone quoted of 508m or whatever it was includes Greece and a lot of East European shithole countries with no spending power, but which require constant subsidies from more developed economies shackled to them in the EU.

We'd also be likely to be a lot less regulated than the EU once transitional measures lapse and thus easier to deal with.

Remember the days when Liam Fox used to talk about how easy getting trade deals would be once we left the EU? Now Brexiteers are reduced to this sort of well, we still won't be as bad as some others type of thing.

[the other bob wilson]

I think I did ask what on earth was going on. I think I did invite you to check it and post you a link to an app where you could do that.
Let me ask you a question then , what exactly would you have done to resolve it ?

Yes , Wales bales was a bit mischievous tying these nutters up in knots and using a web they'd spun to do it, but in fairness he didn't start it, did he ? I came in here in all good faith , I didn't do anything wrong and a few people who obviously had history with WB immediately started going for me.

He made them look like the stupid oafs which I regret to say they apparently are, ( based on the way they've ganged up on me for no reason), and so yes I can appreciate his guile and intelligence. He hasn't trolled me or insulted me as this bunch of nutters have, so yes I would tend to take his side , wouldn't I ?

If you'd like to suggest any way in which I can prove I'm not WB, ( which I certainly shouldn't have to) , let me know and I'll do it just for the sake of stopping this bloody nonsense.

You're a respected figure who's run a Cardiff City blog I was aware of before I'd heard of WB or this forum, so you're the last person I'd expect to be joining in this crap. Don't misunderstand this - I'm not complaining because I'm very much big and ugly enough to stand up fir myself and so it won't effect me in that way, but the whole thing is no more than common or garden bullying , or attempted bullying anyway. I think I'm able to tell enough about you from your writings here and on your blog to think that you wouldn't deliberately take part in that, so I honestly wish you'd think it through again.

I set out what I thought in the first of the messages I posted yesterday in this thread and nothing's happened since then to change that However, I do accept that if what you say is true and the second of the alternatives (you are not Wales Bales) I set out applies, then perhaps the term more sinned against than sinning applies to you.

Nevertheless, you have set out the lengths you have gone to to try and prove that you are not Wales Bales and you've certainly written enough long messages on the subject as well. This suggests to me that you are not happy with what's happened. I can understand that, but what I just don't get at all is your reluctance to pin the blame for the whole situation on the person responsible for creating it - instead, you are fulsome in your praise of the cause of your.problem.

What I saw was Wales Bales create your problem by posting a message under his name that read as if you had written it and, hardly surprisingly, people have jumped to a certain conclusion after reading it. According to you, these people are "stupid oafs", but where you see "guile and intelligence" on Wales Bales' part, all I see is someone flailing about trying to get themselves out of the mess they created for themselves - as I said yesterday, distinctly odd behaviour all round.

[Eric Cartman]

That's be variable, wouldn't it ? There'd be a lot of other factors too of course, such as language and political stability, geographical location etc etc ad inf.

If your figure of X existed , it'd be a lot lower than 66m though.

Let's not forget that this figure someone quoted of 508m or whatever it was includes Greece and a lot of East European shithole countries with no spending power, but which require constant subsidies from more developed economies shackled to them in the EU.

We'd also be likely to be a lot less regulated than the EU once transitional measures lapse and thus easier to deal with.

'a market is either big enough to be worth going for or not big enough to be worth going for'

[lardy]

I set out what I thought in the first of the messages I posted yesterday in this thread and nothing's happened since then to change that However, I do accept that if what you say is true and the second of the alternatives (you are not Wales Bales) I set out applies, then perhaps the term more sinned against than sinning applies to you.

Nevertheless, you have set out the lengths you have gone to to try and prove that you are not Wales Bales and you've certainly written enough long messages on the subject as well. This suggests to me that you are not happy with what's happened. I can understand that, but what I just don't get at all is your reluctance to pin the blame for the whole situation on the person responsible for creating it - instead, you are fulsome in your praise of the cause of your.problem.

What I saw was Wales Bales create your problem by posting a message under his name that read as if you had written it and, hardly surprisingly, people have jumped to a certain conclusion after reading it. According to you, these people are "stupid oafs", but where you see "guile and intelligence" on Wales Bales' part, all I see is someone flailing about trying to get themselves out of the mess they created for themselves - as I said yesterday, distinctly odd behaviour all round.

It's probably worth mentioning that WB made that post after a lot of people had already spotted that he was also posting as ronniebird. The slipup just confirmed it, but didn't create it.

I expect he started the new account because a number of posters (I could easily name four or five) have said that they don't want to interact with him any more and as he's a little addicted to CCMB he decided to start a new one.

I'd also mention that when he started the WalesBales account, he pretended he wasn't gluey for a few weeks. All this is nothing new.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

It's got everything to do with what you posted. Specifically you mentioned Weatherspoons I think, but my reply covered the wider view, that's all.

I know you mean well and you probably think remain would be best - it's just a matter of judgement really.

Unfortunately of course, we must consider how wide of the mark you are on the Wales Bales thing in weighing your ability to make judgements mustn't we ?

Think of it like this, W-B and Ronnie B must -ipso facto - half NOT be....... You see ?

No it didn't. It was just vague, irrelevant waffle about the British empire then drivel about democracy and acceptance that people have different views.

However, mine aren't views. Wetherspoon's ability to buy cheaper goods from outside the EU is as a result of EU membership. That's not a view. That's fact. You seem confident the UK can get better deals than the EU. Economists, educated people in these fields and many politicians don't share that confidence. Yours seems to be built on the former building of the British empire, which was built up by force, attacking other countries, genecide and terror. Those days are gone. Thankfully.

Last question - what can the UK offer to other countries that would give them better deals with those countries than we currently have through EU membership? Specifics would give this answer credibility, but they will be fact checked. Over to you.

[RonnieBird]

Remember the days when Liam Fox used to talk about how easy getting trade deals would be once we left the EU? Now Brexiteers are reduced to this sort of well, we still won't be as bad as some others type of thing.


I set out what I thought in the first of the messages I posted yesterday in this thread and nothing's happened since then to change that However, I do accept that if what you say is true and the second of the alternatives (you are not Wales Bales) I set out applies, then perhaps the term more sinned against than sinning applies to you.

Nevertheless, you have set out the lengths you have gone to to try and prove that you are not Wales Bales and you've certainly written enough long messages on the subject as well. This suggests to me that you are not happy with what's happened. I can understand that, but what I just don't get at all is your reluctance to pin the blame for the whole situation on the person responsible for creating it - instead, you are fulsome in your praise of the cause of your.problem.

What I saw was Wales Bales create your problem by posting a message under his name that read as if you had written it and, hardly surprisingly, people have jumped to a certain conclusion after reading it. According to you, these people are "stupid oafs", but where you see "guile and intelligence" on Wales Bales' part, all I see is someone flailing about trying to get themselves out of the mess they created for themselves - as I said yesterday, distinctly odd behaviour all round.



Well look, for one thing someone has been fair enough to point out that WB didn't do his Rope a Dope till after half the forum was accusing me of being him.

I don't know ANY of these people and so I'm an objective observer to various groups doing battle. I don't play games like that myself, and I was indeed initially mystified when WB did that. I wondered what he was up to but it didn't take me long to work out that he was winding them up and, whether or not I liked that it was quite clever . I said so purely on the basis of credit where credits due - in the little games some people are obviously playing he won by a very long way.

As far as I can see though WB appears to be broadly on the same political side as me so I'm not inclined to go for him, in much the same way that I wouldn't be complaining too loudly about a professional foul by Arter.

The simple fact is though that any connection between myself and WB is entirely in the minds of those who imagined it. I do suspect that he might have had a similar education to me and therefore writes in a similar way.

[RonnieBird]

No it didn't. It was just vague, irrelevant waffle about the British empire then drivel about democracy and acceptance that people have different views.

However, mine aren't views. Wetherspoon's ability to buy cheaper goods from outside the EU is as a result of EU membership. That's not a view. That's fact. You seem confident the UK can get better deals than the EU. Economists, educated people in these fields and many politicians don't share that confidence. Yours seems to be built on the former building of the British empire, which was built up by force, attacking other countries, genecide and terror. Those days are gone. Thankfully.

Last question - what can the UK offer to other countries that would give them better deals with those countries than we currently have through EU membership? Specifics would give this answer credibility, but they will be fact checked. Over to you.


Ignoring all the silly abusive crap, I'll answer the question briefly.
Language, cultural and colonial links , less red tape and regulation and perhaps tax inducements. The ability to offer such inducements without EU approval.
Case in point would be, as I mentioned before, Jamaican bananas which are cheaper and of higher quality but effectively banned because the EU have agreed to instead import crappy South and Central American bananas via Germany thus closing down a big South Wales industry and crapping on the heads of a former colony which has had its own economy wrecked by the EU too. In turn perhaps they'd return to importing UK goods instead of American one's and there's be a small but helpful market.
I could give 100 examples of a similar nature where we could and would benefit from putting British interests first, rather than what the EU bureaucracy considers most beneficial to their project to create a superstate there.

[CardiffIrish2]

Ignoring all the silly abusive crap, I'll answer the question briefly.
Language, cultural and colonial links , less red tape and regulation and perhaps tax inducements. The ability to offer such inducements without EU approval.
Case in point would be, as I mentioned before, Jamaican bananas which are cheaper and of higher quality but effectively banned because the EU have agreed to instead import crappy South and Central American bananas via Germany thus closing down a big South Wales industry and crapping on the heads of a former colony which has had its own economy wrecked by the EU too. In turn perhaps they'd return to importing UK goods instead of American one's and there's be a small but helpful market.
I could give 100 examples of a similar nature where we could and would benefit from putting British interests first, rather than what the EU bureaucracy considers most beneficial to their project to create a superstate there.


Just by saying ‘colonial links’ seems that you’re hankering after an imperial past that has long gone

[the other bob wilson]

Well look, for one thing someone has been fair enough to point out that WB didn't do his Rope a Dope till after half the forum was accusing me of being him.

I don't know ANY of these people and so I'm an objective observer to various groups doing battle. I don't play games like that myself, and I was indeed initially mystified when WB did that. I wondered what he was up to but it didn't take me long to work out that he was winding them up and, whether or not I liked that it was quite clever . I said so purely on the basis of credit where credits due - in the little games some people are obviously playing he won by a very long way.

As far as I can see though WB appears to be broadly on the same political side as me so I'm not inclined to go for him, in much the same way that I wouldn't be complaining too loudly about a professional foul by Arter.

The simple fact is though that any connection between myself and WB is entirely in the minds of those who imagined it. I do suspect that he might have had a similar education to me and therefore writes in a similar way.

You, and your alleged alter ego, have a hugely inflated opinion of yourselves if you really think half of the forum were discussing who you were and I say that as someone who has spent too much time doing it recently - I have had my say on the matter and, having done so, I'll leave it there.

[RonnieBird]

Just by saying ‘colonial links’ seems that you’re hankering after an imperial past that has long gone


Well that's a bit of mind reading on your part really.
There are a lot of things to do with colonial links other than what you seem to be taking. It's just shorthand for historical connections really ,such as those with Jamaica as I mentioned , where they speak English and supported us in many wars. Their economy was ruined by EU banana agreements, as was Trinidads oil refinery - I'd say we owe them a loyalty and whether you like it or not many people in the Commonwealth and former Empire , ( much of which wasn't acquired by conquest) have connections with Britain and would like to trade with us.

[life on mars]

Well that's a bit of mind reading on your part really.
There are a lot of things to do with colonial links other than what you seem to be taking. It's just shorthand for historical connections really ,such as those with Jamaica as I mentioned , where they speak English and supported us in many wars. Their economy was ruined by EU banana agreements, as was Trinidads oil refinery - I'd say we owe them a loyalty and whether you like it or not many people in the Commonwealth and former Empire , ( much of which wasn't acquired by conquest) have connections with Britain and would like to trade with us.

I get your point and its a very valid one , commonwealth countries have suffered think theresabout 52 of them

http://thecommonwealth.org/media/news/trade-opportunities-commonwealth-post-brexit

[Wales-Bales]

As far as I can see though WB appears to be broadly on the same political side as me so I'm not inclined to go for him, in much the same way that I wouldn't be complaining too loudly about a professional foul by Arter.

The simple fact is though that any connection between myself and WB is entirely in the minds of those who imagined it. I do suspect that he might have had a similar education to me and therefore writes in a similar way.
You're doing well Ron, carry on with your well researched posts and don't let anybody put you off. I've been trouncing them in the Trump thread for ages. I thought they would have learned a thing or two by now, but obviously it's not going to happen. They always think they are right because they are the many versus the few, and the Guardian could never be wrong, could it? :wink:

[life on mars]

You're doing well Ron, carry on with your well researched posts and don't let anybody put you off. I've been trouncing them in the Trump thread for ages. I thought they would have learned a thing or two by now, but obviously it's not going to happen. They always think they are right because they are the many versus the few, and the Guardian could never be wrong, could it? :wink:

Yes i'll second that , keep it going ,dont give in , if you dont follow the narrow narrative left agenda ,your a misfit and you get personally attacked ,remind you of anything from the new modern politics agenda ?

[jon1959]

You're doing well Ron, carry on with your well researched posts and don't let anybody put you off. I've been trouncing them in the Trump thread for ages. I thought they would have learned a thing or two by now, but obviously it's not going to happen. They always think they are right because they are the many versus the few, and the Guardian could never be wrong, could it? :wink:

Unbelievable..... :hehe:

[RonnieBird]

You, and your alleged alter ego, have a hugely inflated opinion of yourselves if you really think half of the forum were discussing who you were and I say that as someone who has spent too much time doing it recently - I have had my say on the matter and, having done so, I'll leave it there.


I'm rarely shocked by posts on message boards but I am by that one. I think that's because I had a much higher expectation of you because of your other writings.

It's immensely unfair to say I've got an inflated ego on that basis. I didn't IMAGINE that every time I tried to post here I got a response about WB did I ?
Actually I make a point of not guessing what anyone is thinking because that's often different to what they say or write. Whilst I'm on that subject , I don't CARE what they think either.
I do care when people call me a liar, which I am not !

You really shouldn't complain that you've spent too much time on it either because you kept returning to it, not me.

I had tried to engage you in football conversation if you recall all that stuff about friendlies at Ton Pentre etc, and I did that to get the focus off this puerile bollocks. I will admit that I chose you to do this because I thought you were an "elder statesman" here who might see through the situation and quietly intervene to calm it down.

That didn't work, and it made me feel worse because you seem to have joined in rather than been the marker for fair play I'd expected .

[RonnieBird]

Yes i'll second that , keep it going ,dont give in , if you dont follow the narrow narrative left agenda ,your a misfit and you get personally attacked ,remind you of anything from the new modern politics agenda ?



Thank you. It's very similar to what I thought myself.
There's a tendency in modern politics to attack individuals rather than their policies, and that's generally the MO of the left.
Endless and increasing ridiculous personal attacks upon Donald Trump and Nigel Farage instead of addressing the popularity of their policies.

Since this bunch has been so rude and unpleasant to me I shall say that they don't seem very intelligent or well read, so they might not be consciously aware that they're mimicking this behaviour, but that's what they're doing.

The moment they detect that an individual hasn't signed up to the sandal wearing ,yogurt knitting society with its mass deceptions and hidden agendas they become angry and protective of their own waking dream and gang up to attack that individual.

It can't be that different people hold similar views which don't coincide with theirs , so it must be one person pretending to be someone else .

Okay then, I won't pull punches any more here, these freaks are in a dwindling minority of slavish State acolytes who can't think straight anymore with all the multifarious and contradictory ridiculous lies they've been fed , and they've lost contact with the real world. Thus they invent new and more preposterous reasons to kid themselves that the majority are either ill educated, stupid, wicked or, in this case, they don't really exist !

Maybe this is the high (or low) point in the desperate arguments of the deluded bitter clingers to the tyrants dishonoured cheque -
" I don't need to listen to people who don't follow my political delusions because they're not really there !"

[RonnieBird]

Further to that.
I joined this forum to talk about football but one or two comments I made upon other matters provoked a tirade of nastiness and trolling about loony theories that I'm pretending to be someone else, but okay then, I'll take part in the political arguments too.

[Eric Cartman]

And here arrives the victim narrative.

[the other bob wilson]

And here arrives the victim narrative.

Sorry for returning so quickly to this thread so soon after I said I'd finished with it, but I had to say that those were two classic bizarre messageboard rants!

[Wales-Bales]

Thank you. It's very similar to what I thought myself.
There's a tendency in modern politics to attack individuals rather than their policies, and that's generally the MO of the left.
Endless and increasing ridiculous personal attacks upon Donald Trump and Nigel Farage instead of addressing the popularity of their policies.

Since this bunch has been so rude and unpleasant to me I shall say that they don't seem very intelligent or well read, so they might not be consciously aware that they're mimicking this behaviour, but that's what they're doing.

The moment they detect that an individual hasn't signed up to the sandal wearing ,yogurt knitting society with its mass deceptions and hidden agendas they become angry and protective of their own waking dream and gang up to attack that individual.

It can't be that different people hold similar views which don't coincide with theirs , so it must be one person pretending to be someone else .

Okay then, I won't pull punches any more here, these freaks are in a dwindling minority of slavish State acolytes who can't think straight anymore with all the multifarious and contradictory ridiculous lies they've been fed , and they've lost contact with the real world. Thus they invent new and more preposterous reasons to kid themselves that the majority are either ill educated, stupid, wicked or, in this case, they don't really exist !

Maybe this is the high (or low) point in the desperate arguments of the deluded bitter clingers to the tyrants dishonoured cheque -
" I don't need to listen to people who don't follow my political delusions because they're not really there !"
Harsh but true!

[jon1959]

Harsh but true!


:hehe: :hehe: :hehe: Please stop! :hehe:

[lardy]

:hehe: :hehe: :hehe: Please stop! :hehe:

This is the most pathetic thing I've seen on CCMB (with a lot of competition). Imagine being this insecure :hehe: :hehe:

[CardiffIrish2]

It’s a sad thing when someone so lonely has to create a duplicate account to agree with himself 😂😂😂

[RonnieBird]

No the sad thing is when someone is so lonely that they have to imagine that someone has created duplicate accounts to disagree with them.

As I've said many times, I'll agree to any test but you and your surprising ally aren't interested in the truth of the matter.

Here we are then - who will wager £500 on the question of whether I'm WB?
If the moderators will agree to check , which I give them every permission to do, we'll all put £500 in , in advance of the answer being established, which will be lodged in cash with a trusted party, the total will go to the one who's telling the truth ,or divided between those who have caught the lie.

This is a serious offer and I'll put the money up providing the others do . It's not open to WB I'm afraid.

Any takers ?

[RonnieBird]

No takers yet ?

We can make it a grand if you like. In fact ,if anyone wants to make it 5K that'd be worth me going to Wales to verify and collect .

I'm quite serious about this. Put your money down and I'll do the same.

[lardy]

This is the most pathetic thing I've seen on CCMB (with a lot of competition). Imagine being this insecure :hehe: :hehe:

Looks like I spoke too soon.

[Wales-Bales]

No takers yet ?

We can make it a grand if you like. In fact ,if anyone wants to make it 5K that'd be worth me going to Wales to verify and collect .

I'm quite serious about this. Put your money down and I'll do the same.
I bet you 5K you're not WB :sherlock:

[RonnieBird]

I'm sorry , I did exclude you from the offer for obvious reasons .

[life on mars]

This wonderful offer is not being taken up as I thought it would , which is very confusing when you look back a few days to the certain statements by some that WB and RB were in fact like a Superman and Clark Kent character , only split by glasses and a lively Cape.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

This wonderful offer is not being taken up as I thought it would , which is very confusing when you look back a few days to the certain statements by some that WB and RB were in fact like a Superman and Clark Kent character , only split by glasses and a lively Cape.

How do you think it could be decided when we know that IP addresses and email addresses are meaningless?

[Eric Cartman]

What a pointless pantomime.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

What a pointless pantomime.

Indeed.

[RonnieBird]

How do you think it could be decided when we know that IP addresses and email addresses are meaningless?

Well if you'll put your money up I'll do the same and if it's a large enough sum to justify it I'll travel to Wales and produce my identity documents to some mutually trusted third party who can also hold the money.

Providing WB will co operate and identify himself to the trusted third party it can be proven easily enough.

There are lots of easier ways of course without it costing you money, because it would cost you money and I wouldn't really want to take it from you.

Tell you what, whilst I've got better things to do, I'll work out a way for you to prove it if you and the other conspiracy theorists will agree to post a full apology here in that event.
Incidentally ,I've gone so far as to enter details on my profile ,which I ordinarily wouldn't and they're perfectly true and accurate in as far as they go.

[RonnieBird]

Indeed.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, except that it's you and Widow Twanky there who created it.
All I did was join a Cardiff City forum not even knowing there were threads other than football ones and when I posted I gather that my style is similar to WB so you jumped to a conclusion, he exploited your stupid faux logic for comedy purposes , and I'm left having to deny it practically every time I post.

Your pointless pantomime , not mine Cinderella !

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Well if you'll put your money up I'll do the same and if it's a large enough sum to justify it I'll travel to Wales and produce my identity documents to some mutually trusted third party who can also hold the money.

Providing WB will co operate and identify himself to the trusted third party it can be proven easily enough.

There are lots of easier ways of course without it costing you money, because it would cost you money and I wouldn't really want to take it from you.

Tell you what, whilst I've got better things to do, I'll work out a way for you to prove it if you and the other conspiracy theorists will agree to post a full apology here in that event.
Incidentally ,I've gone so far as to enter details on my profile ,which I ordinarily wouldn't and they're perfectly true and accurate in as far as they go.

My post wasn't directed at you. And if you think that I have something to apologise for you are deluded. Perhaps you have imagined me stating something I didn't. Funny, that.

[Wales-Bales]

My post wasn't directed at you. And if you think that I have something to apologise for you are deluded. Perhaps you have imagined me stating something I didn't. Funny, that.
Are you going to take this to the grave with you? :hehe:

[jon1959]

This wonderful offer is not being taken up as I thought it would , which is very confusing when you look back a few days to the certain statements by some that WB and RB were in fact like a Superman and Clark Kent character , only split by glasses and a lively Cape.

I don't think many on here see Wales-Bales as Superman. Quite the opposite. He sees himself that way - no doubt. That is part of the problem.

[Wales-Bales]

I don't think many on here see Wales-Bales as Superman. Quite the opposite. He sees himself that way - no doubt. That is part of the problem.
You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself for somebody who is so lacking in intellectual rigour. Birdie sussed you all out in a few days, but I must admit I did wonder why it took him so long!

[RonnieBird]

My post wasn't directed at you. And if you think that I have something to apologise for you are deluded. Perhaps you have imagined me stating something I didn't. Funny, that.



Oh really ? I'm very sorry if I wrongly included you in the gang of trolls Taunton.
My fault entirely and I'm particularly sorry since I was quite rude in my reply to you.

It's no excuse whatsoever, but I get such a lot of unjustified bile from so many people on this subject that it must have made me trigger happy ! Im sure you can see that what you said was open to misinterpretation but it was my mistake and I should have read back over the previous posts .
Of course you have nothing to apologise for - I'm the one who should apologise and I do unreservedly .

I hope you can forgive my mistake because I regret it greatly .

[Wales-Bales]

Oh really ? I'm very sorry if I wrongly included you in the gang of trolls Taunton.
My fault entirely and I'm particularly sorry since I was quite rude in my reply to you.

It's no excuse whatsoever, but I get such a lot of unjustified bile from so many people on this subject that it must have made me trigger happy ! Im sure you can see that what you said was open to misinterpretation but it was my mistake and I should have read back over the previous posts .
Of course you have nothing to apologise for - I'm the one who should apologise and I do unreservedly .

I hope you can forgive my mistake because I regret it greatly .
Don't Taunt the Blue Genie, he's got a memory like an elephant!

[RonnieBird]

I wasn't taunting him , I was absolutely sincere

[the other bob wilson]

This wonderful offer is not being taken up as I thought it would , which is very confusing when you look back a few days to the certain statements by some that WB and RB were in fact like a Superman and Clark Kent character , only split by glasses and a lively Cape.

I think I've found Ronnie Bird's "trusted third party".

[Eric Cartman]

My post wasn't directed at you. And if you think that I have something to apologise for you are deluded. Perhaps you have imagined me stating something I didn't. Funny, that.

I haven't said anything about who he is/isn't either.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I haven't said anything about who he is/isn't either.

Spooky, eh?

[Wales-Bales]

I haven't said anything about who he is/isn't either.
I know who he isn't!

[Eric Cartman]

Spooky, eh?

It almost feels like anybody who disagrees with him is bullying.

[jon1959]

You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself for somebody who is so lacking in intellectual rigour. Birdie sussed you all out in a few days, but I must admit I did wonder why it took him so long!

If you apply your own self-proclaimed intellectual rigour to what I posted you will see that I wasn't making any claims for myself (some of us don't) but was commenting on the inappropriateness of life on mars' allusion. That was all. No need to constantly invent things that aren't there. That seems to be a habit you share with 'Birdy'. :hehe:

[RonnieBird]

It almost feels like anybody who disagrees with him is bullying.


No please don't say or think that. Listen, my apology to Taunton was absolutely genuine. If I misconstrued his comments I'm very sorry.

I'm slightly less inclined to extend that to you because you certainly have joined in, whether you've chosen your words carefully or not.
Nonetheless ,I'm more than happy to " shake hands" and forget it because it is bollocks after all.

I must say though that I'm the very last person to expect anyone to be careful what they say to me. I'm a believer in total free speech and I wouldn't want anyone to pull punches. When I spoke of bullying I did note that it's not a method which is ever going to get to me and in fact I'm from a generation which was taught to stand up to bullies , which i hope I've always done.

It also explains probably why I've made such a point of arguing the toss about this WB bollocks.

I tried engaging the other Bob Wilson in conversation because he seemed to be a mature and sensible type , but I was dissapointed when he turned out to be less shrewd and fair than I thought.

I tried reasoning with people , but they weren't open to that.

I tried inviting people to check and I emailed the moderator/administrator asking him to check my I.D

I even tried offering to bet money with anyone who insisted on their story.

The final choice then is to just leave , fall into line with the political opinions of Jon 1959 and Rudey who are the instigators and ring leaders, or stand up for myself.

Listen, I don't like lies or liars, and that's why I'm not going to see a big lie written time and time again without challenging it.

[Eric Cartman]

I haven't joined in with anything. You made what I saw as a ridiculous claim re Hitler and I argued it. I havent mentioned the alt account thing because frankly I couldn't give a shit.

I don't really see walesbales on here because UK politics isnt Hollywood enough for him so I wouldnt know if your posts are similar to his or not.

[life on mars]

No please don't say or think that. Listen, my apology to Taunton was absolutely genuine. If I misconstrued his comments I'm very sorry.

I'm slightly less inclined to extend that to you because you certainly have joined in, whether you've chosen your words carefully or not.
Nonetheless ,I'm more than happy to " shake hands" and forget it because it is bollocks after all.

I must say though that I'm the very last person to expect anyone to be careful what they say to me. I'm a believer in total free speech and I wouldn't want anyone to pull punches. When I spoke of bullying I did note that it's not a method which is ever going to get to me and in fact I'm from a generation which was taught to stand up to bullies , which i hope I've always done.

It also explains probably why I've made such a point of arguing the toss about this WB bollocks.

I tried engaging the other Bob Wilson in conversation because he seemed to be a mature and sensible type , but I was dissapointed when he turned out to be less shrewd and fair than I thought.

I tried reasoning with people , but they weren't open to that.

I tried inviting people to check and I emailed the moderator/administrator asking him to check my I.D

I even tried offering to bet money with anyone who insisted on their story.

The final choice then is to just leave , fall into line with the political opinions of Jon 1959 and Rudey who are the instigators and ring leaders, or stand up for myself.

Listen, I don't like lies or liars, and that's why I'm not going to see a big lie written time and time again without challenging it.

Don't upset him he will haunt you forever 🙂😁

[Eric Cartman]

Don't upset him he will haunt you forever 🙂😁

It's hard not to haunt you when you start every facking thread. Don't worry though, like a room of chimps each banging a typewriter eventually something you write will make sense.

[RonnieBird]

Gazarnemplatt

[Wales-Bales]

The final choice then is to just leave , fall into line with the political opinions of Jon 1959 and Rudey who are the instigators and ring leaders, or stand up for myself.
It is important to identify who the spreaders of disinformation are and listen to what they have to say, as they are the ones who tend to promote the current talking points. These guys save me a lot of time when I am trying to figure out what is going on in the world.

[RonnieBird]

Bit confused by that. I don't think you'll gather much from J59 or Rudey do you ? They're not consciously spreading disinformation , they just repeat it like parrots and they wouldn't pass an 11+ working together with a copy of the Encyclopaedia Britannica on the desk.
I think it's an ambitious project to figure out what's happening in the world - much more practical to work out what's not happening and subtract it from what you've been told !

[Wales-Bales]

Bit confused by that. I don't think you'll gather much from J59 or Rudey do you ? They're not consciously spreading disinformation , they just repeat it like parrots and they wouldn't pass an 11+ working together with a copy of the Encyclopaedia Britannica on the desk.
I think it's an ambitious project to figure out what's happening in the world - much more practical to work out what's not happening and subtract it from what you've been told !
They have an uncanny ability to do just that, and I am very grateful for the free service!