Are fans losing faith in Neil Warnock?

[Bald Barry Bastad]

Stole this from the other board but couldn't agree more with every word said.....

Long time poster, who views rather than posts these days. But this topic is something I had to contribute to.

I like Neil, he's not everyones cup of tea, he is clearly a very good motivator, a good manager in a scrappy game, fantastic with the press and the fans, geeing us up with his fist pumps etc. But it ends there for me.

Theres much more qualities than that needed in the modern game to be a success on the pitch and off it. Promotion came in a strange year for the championship, a lot of the fancied sides struggled and were clearly embarking on new projects and were in transition. It was a scrappy league hence why Neil did so well. However the entertainment value and quality of football was not great and never has been for me. Slow defence, long balls going over the top of the midfield, who regularly get out bossed in the stats. Never got in a regularly consistent striker. You fly or fall based on your signings. I could go on, weird substitutions, negative team selection and tactics.

I shout to the rooftops for my team no matter whose in charge, but I haven't lost faith in Neil, I never had it to begin with.

Keeping us up until the end of his first season should have been the agreement and thats it. Then a change, I have not enjoyed or been excited by my football down the City since Dave Jones worked with Bellamy, Ramsey, Koumas, Bothroyd, Chopra, Burke, McCormack etc etc. Neil wouldn't have signed those players.

I hoped last season would have been his last, and a fresh start was upon us, with a set philosophy for fluid attacking football, with good passing and pace. Easier said than done maybe, but Thats what makes modern football so great and addictive.

Neils footballing philosophy is a million miles away from that, and I believe a change last Christmas could well have seen a new man take us in a new direction tactically and have kept us up.

I like Neil, I cheer him and the boys on every week. But his football has never been for me. I see nothing different this season unless we get an amazing last two days of the window which is unlikely, as the window to date has been uninspiring filler signings. I fear for the season ahead, but always hope, always keep the faith :ayatollah: :bluebird

[rs3100]

I disagree that changing last Christmas could well have kept us up. Anyone coming in would have to work with the type of player we had and they were Warnock type players. If we were going to change the time to do it was as soon as the season was over.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

We did really well, kicked on in our second year and got promoted. Everyone is now saying the year we got promoted wasn't good but at the time, everyone was saying how good Wolves and Fulham were.

I'll have lost a lot of faith if we continue with the numbers we have in centre mid (3), and sell Cunningham without a replacement whilst having enough strikers to sink a ship. It's a very strange situation and I'm trying not to judge until Thursday but it seems the club doesn't really know what it's doing, which has been a bit of a theme. Our first summer window under Warnock has to be a massive success and that was the platform to promotion. Since then, I don't think we've really improved the side!

I also agree with rs3100, nobody would have kept us up last Christmas. Our players are his players, and by definition too many of them can only play his way. We'd have also stayed up if we had a better striker than Niasse. He was our best and only hope. Can you imagine a "footballing" manager coming in and seeing our players, he'd have a heart attack.

[BLUETIT]

Stole this from the other board but couldn't agree more with every word said.....

Long time poster, who views rather than posts these days. But this topic is something I had to contribute to.

I like Neil, he's not everyones cup of tea, he is clearly a very good motivator, a good manager in a scrappy game, fantastic with the press and the fans, geeing us up with his fist pumps etc. But it ends there for me.

Theres much more qualities than that needed in the modern game to be a success on the pitch and off it. Promotion came in a strange year for the championship, a lot of the fancied sides struggled and were clearly embarking on new projects and were in transition. It was a scrappy league hence why Neil did so well. However the entertainment value and quality of football was not great and never has been for me. Slow defence, long balls going over the top of the midfield, who regularly get out bossed in the stats. Never got in a regularly consistent striker. You fly or fall based on your signings. I could go on, weird substitutions, negative team selection and tactics.

I shout to the rooftops for my team no matter whose in charge, but I haven't lost faith in Neil, I never had it to begin with.

Keeping us up until the end of his first season should have been the agreement and thats it. Then a change, I have not enjoyed or been excited by my football down the City since Dave Jones worked with Bellamy, Ramsey, Koumas, Bothroyd, Chopra, Burke, McCormack etc etc. Neil wouldn't have signed those players.

I hoped last season would have been his last, and a fresh start was upon us, with a set philosophy for fluid attacking football, with good passing and pace. Easier said than done maybe, but Thats what makes modern football so great and addictive.

Neils footballing philosophy is a million miles away from that, and I believe a change last Christmas could well have seen a new man take us in a new direction tactically and have kept us up.

I like Neil, I cheer him and the boys on every week. But his football has never been for me. I see nothing different this season unless we get an amazing last two days of the window which is unlikely, as the window to date has been uninspiring filler signings. I fear for the season ahead, but always hope, always keep the faith :ayatollah: :bluebird

Reads like it’s written by someone “blown out” by the club and not getting any “ice cream” any more :hehe::hehe:

[Wales-Bales]

Warnock's time was up before last season had even finished.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I think Warnock did a marvellous job in many ways and was the perfect antidote to the rebrand toxicity. However, I do think we need to kick on with a more modern manager who plays a type of football that could survive longer term than one season in the top flight should we reach those heights again.

[rs3100]

Reads like it’s written by someone “blown out” by the club and not getting any “ice cream” any more :hehe::hehe:

It reads too well for that.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

We did really well, kicked on in our second year and got promoted. Everyone is now saying the year we got promoted wasn't good but at the time, everyone was saying how good Wolves and Fulham were.

I'll have lost a lot of faith if we continue with the numbers we have in centre mid (3), and sell Cunningham without a replacement whilst having enough strikers to sink a ship. It's a very strange situation and I'm trying not to judge until Thursday but it seems the club doesn't really know what it's doing, which has been a bit of a theme. Our first summer window under Warnock has to be a massive success and that was the platform to promotion. Since then, I don't think we've really improved the side!

I also agree with rs3100, nobody would have kept us up last Christmas. Our players are his players, and by definition too many of them can only play his way. We'd have also stayed up if we had a better striker than Niasse. He was our best and only hope. Can you imagine a "footballing" manager coming in and seeing our players, he'd have a heart attack.

I remember the days when City strikers scored goals frequently. Showing my age, I know............

[Rjk]

We are equally cursed and blessed with NW.

If you were to make a hybrid franken-manager of all the managers in the division, then there would be a lot that you would take from NW, he's one of the best around at motivating, organising and man management, and everyone on his team's knows exactly what they are there to do.

The style of football we play though is becoming less and less successful in this division. Look at the teams who go up or make the playoffs year on year, this style is becoming increasingly rare at the top end of the table, and still fairly common at the bottom.

NW due to his strengths, has a huge impact on a club when he first takes over. He rescued Rotherham from almost certain relegation, and turned us around hugely.
However given a longer period it doesn't seem to have a generally positive trend. The style, player recruitment etc areas he might not be as strong have more of an influence over the longer term.

I think we will be ok this time round, and I'm happy to cheer NW on and back his methods to have another crack at it. But I also think we should be seriously planning for life after NW. He's a one off, and without the guy I think we need a serious change of direction or we will really struggle.
All the most successful teams are now using a director of football and we should be looking to bring someone in asap to start to plan on the direction we take the club at the end of NWs contract.

[life on mars]

This is so unfair too the man :


beyond everyone's wildest dream he got us up
he then defied all the experts up to the last few games and had us in contention.
back end of the season we bloody injury ravaged with Bamba. Patterson, limping Cammasara ,Gunner and so many others crocked or limping on .
buy a striker and we know what happened then.
robbed against Chelsea.
bloody Leicester home game , could have been a better environment for us ( that was 6 points gone )
he got us up last with a nuts and bolts side
he's got no real financial backing once there
poor scouting team for years ,still the case ( club issue for me not him )
if we change now, its a brand new man , new squad ,bags of money needed FFS then hits us
transfers are always in the pools below a lot of other big midland /London established type clubs ( always has been )
were in Wales ( not every footballers dream destination especially those with roots and family in England )
needs a better development squad and investment ( club issue ).
no rich via of talent to tap into , as the bigger clubs are attracting those welsh youngsters .


Who would you have in , how much would he need , how much compensation do we pay out , how many players contact would we run down or cancel and at what cost.

We have played one ducking game FFS

[LeningradCowboy]

I disagree that changing last Christmas could well have kept us up. Anyone coming in would have to work with the type of player we had and they were Warnock type players. If we were going to change the time to do it was as soon as the season was over.

Exactly. A new manager couldn't have significantly changed the way the team was playing without signing several new players and that was never going to happen in January.

Who would have come here anyway? I didn't want Fat Sam or one of the other charlatans.

[B. Oddie]

In a word: "No".

[cardiff55]

He's not the Messiah.....etc etc

[binman]

I'm not - I've really enjoyed it since he's been here and I'm sure everyone will look back on his time here as outstanding in the future.

One ruddy loss to away to Wigan and everyone is sh1tting their pants FFS

Lets give it a chance this season - Norwich were going to sack their manager after 5 games last season after fan protests - Neil deserves far far better than that - though please sign a decent midfielder

[Don Corleone]

No, I doubt we would see such a mail if we’d beaten Wigan on Saturday. Yes, some of the transfers and players linked are baffling but we should be backing him this season. He’s already said he’ll walk if it isn’t going well

He did a fantastic job to get us promoted and almost kept us up ( the Fulham away game was terrible mind!). He deserves some patience from us. If Glatzel gets a winning goal on Saturday there will be a different outlook then

[B. Oddie]

I can't see why so many people are losing their shit over a loss. I agree that it's not a great way to start a season but it was just one game.

Wigan are no pushovers and I fancy them to be in or around the play-offs this season.

I've really enjoyed being a Cardiff fan since 'our Neil took over and I'm sure that come Christmas time, we'll be in the top five and everyone will be tossing off at the thought of him bollock-naked on a John Deere tractor (with a Santa hat on).

[dembethewarrior]

I disagree that changing last Christmas could well have kept us up. Anyone coming in would have to work with the type of player we had and they were Warnock type players. If we were going to change the time to do it was as soon as the season was over.

I just don’t get this “Warnock player” line that gets thrown out there.

I don’t think Reid, Murphy, Camarasa to name 3 off the top of my head, are typical “Warnock players”

It’s just lazy to keep saying it.

Do people really think that if they weren’t TOLD to work play a certain way and do certain things that a few of our lot couldn’t play?

We don’t have a team full of Peltiers ffs

[goats]

Reads like it’s written by someone “blown out” by the club and not getting any “ice cream” any more :hehe::hehe:

What ever happened to gwyn?

[J R Hartley]

I just don’t get this “Warnock player” line that gets thrown out there.

I don’t think Reid, Murphy, Camarasa to name 3 off the top of my head, are typical “Warnock players”

It’s just lazy to keep saying it.

Do people really think that if they weren’t TOLD to work play a certain way and do certain things that a few of our lot couldn’t play?

We don’t have a team full of Peltiers ffs

He has barely played Reid, Murphy it’s clear to see frustrates Warnock, in and out of the team and not shy in having a go at him in the press, and Camarasa fell into his lap because of the Betis friendly.

[goats]

I just don’t get this “Warnock player” line that gets thrown out there.

I don’t think Reid, Murphy, Camarasa to name 3 off the top of my head, are typical “Warnock players”

It’s just lazy to keep saying it.

Do people really think that if they weren’t TOLD to work play a certain way and do certain things that a few of our lot couldn’t play?

We don’t have a team full of Peltiers ffs

I know, people make out that none of them can actually play football, they just hoof it...lol....strange that we are not all footballers as they is no skill involved? I can hoof it?

[dembethewarrior]

I know, people make out that none of them can actually play football, they just hoof it...lol....strange that we are not all footballers as they is no skill involved? I can hoof it?

Hey do as they’re told, would have to be a real idiot to think we don’t have players that can play.

[dembethewarrior]

He has barely played Reid, Murphy it’s clear to see frustrates Warnock, in and out of the team and not shy in having a go at him in the press, and Camarasa fell into his lap because of the Betis friendly.
But he signed them, that’s all I was really getting at.

This “neil Warnock player” line gets thrown around and it’s just lazy.

[RonnieBird]

I've got every faith in Sir Neil. He's been our most successful manager and he knows what he's doing I expect.
I must admit that I'm completely mystified by his incoming players this year because we seem to be trawling the lower leagues and ignoring the very obvious fact that they might not be able to make a step up.
I don't know why we haven't attempted to get any proven higher quality players to match those we've already got.

He seems to be building a completely new team, and the question is whether he can do that in time to mount a challenge this year.
Perhaps we'll see a couple of quality loans during the next 36 hours because we need them based on the cluster**** at Wigan.

[RonnieBird]

Seems you can't say clusterfu.ck

[Trigger]

Probably one of the worst things I've read on here. Disagree with most of it. All opinions though.

Dickle nature of football at its finest.

[Porth Pouncer]

Its the tactics and set up of the team.

Our players must have the skill and fitness to be pros. I imagine most of the team would relish the challenge of un-hoof-ball.

As we have only had one outing this season, I'll ask the question, would we have performed better last season, same squad with a modern manager?

[DubaiDai]

I think Warnock did a marvellous job in many ways and was the perfect antidote to the rebrand toxicity. However, I do think we need to kick on with a more modern manager who plays a type of football that could survive longer term than one season in the top flight should we reach those heights again.

Totally agree.
The time for change was at the end of last season. Makes little sense that we could benefit from one more season and even less sense to have Warnock heading the team to appoint his successor.
The transition to more modern football will take time and probably mean changing a number of players.
This season will simply be another year lost.

[SuisseBluebird]

There were posts when last season ended regarding his future. Some advocated for a change in manager and were also understanding if the board agreed to give him another crack at promotion.

I was part of that section of posters who advocated for Warnock to be replaced. The main reasons behind this was that the spine of the squad required investment and that was before the sale of Manga and Zohore. Why entrust transfer expenditure to a manager who is likely to only be there for a maximum of one season? And since then he's gone on record to suggest this will be his final roll of the dice.

That's what convinced me that it was time to either part ways or transition Neil into another senior role at the club. I appreciate everything he had done up to that point, you honestly cannot commend his achievements enough from taking Cardiff from 23rd to 2nd in 18 months. But following relegation and with the fact that central midfield required an overhaul, I felt it would be best to move on, rather than giving him the opportunity to sign players on 3-4 year contracts for some other manager to inherit months or one year down the line.

Now I'm not reacting to this defeat to Wigan and allowing that to sway my opinion. My statements above echo the statements I made in May and June. And they've since been amplified with the loss of Manga and Zohore as that has put further emphasis on the entire spine of the squad requiring new faces. This transfer window failed to deliver on that with just over 24 hours to go, it seems unlikely that there will be any further activity with regards to the key area that needed addressing come the end of the away win at Old Trafford, Cardiff need to strengthen in central midfield and have only recruited Vaulks so far.

I am hopeful that the remaining time in this window gives some positive news. But at this stage its been an underwhelming window, that has failed to raise optimism regarding mounting a serious promotion campaign this season. Wasn't that the whole reason why Warnock stayed on in the first place?

[Pedro de la Rosa]

I just don’t get this “Warnock player” line that gets thrown out there.

None of our keepers can kick, none of our centre backs can play, Peltier is old school, none of our midfielders are all that on the ball and our strikers don't really score. So that.

[life on mars]

He's not the Messiah.....etc etc

he does glow a bit though, albeit a orange type of glow ,his teeth are very glowy as well , halo , perhaps he is the new messiah

[blue lewj]

I do like Warnock as a bloke but agree with a lot of what has been said previously.

His squads seemingly do know primarily to play one way and would need an overhaul.
He has little to no faith in youth here which is frustrating. Maybe it is an indication of what we are producing (or not) too.

Warnock seems great when creating the siege mentality at a club and playing the 'world against us' card at the off with average players and getting that much more from them and fostering a team spirit.

As has been touched on once he has that initial success and is given some money then it all seems to flatten out, the spirit is affected and the results drop off with him ultimately walking or being shown the door.

I believe we are hitting the latter part of that with City now. We had a great chance of going up if we recruited well but I'm not sure we have.
Flint for Manga for me has weakened us defensively and the safety net of Manga's pace has been taken away. The similarities of Morrison and Flint have also been discussed in depth. The midfield has been weakened too. A slightly weakened midfield would have held its own but to lose so many quality players and replace them with Vaulks and leave him on the bench (at least at Wigan. If he was fit why not start him?)is criminal.
Up front I believe we are slightly stronger in that I feel Glatzel will offer more than Zohore but we have a lot of strikers just kicking their heels who don't really compliment the first team too much.

In short I think that working with existing squads and tinkering early on with freebies has worked for him both here and elsewhere but once he has seen the initial backs to the wall period subside he struggles and has done at clubs before this.
I am much the same as the original poster as I didn't expect us to be world beaters under Warnock, more the hard working team who played long ball and were tight at the back. In many ways we still are Wigan last Saturday aside.
I just think he has taken us as far as he can here and if anything stands out for me about Warnock's time here is that he failed time and again to sort out gaping holes in the squad and failed to make signings in the areas where they were really needed. It is happening currently with the midfield. We seem all too happy to make signings elsewhere while wedging square pegs into round holes.

If the club are not planning for time after Warnock, given what he has said about it being his final season, then they bloody well should be.
My big worry with a new guy coming in is his relationship with Emperor Tan and his henchmen. One thing Neil seems to do very well is manage Vincent and his expectations/outbursts/needs very well.

[blue lewj]

None of our keepers can kick, none of our centre backs can play, Peltier is old school, none of our midfielders are all that on the ball and our strikers don't really score. So that.

Nail on the head.

The keepers not being able to kick along with the centre backs and midfield being unable to play and still getting game time is that they are playing the Warnock way.
The fact that are playing in the team under Warnock is because we play in the style he asks us them and picks/signs players to suit.

If we tried to play a quicker, possession based, passing game then more than a few would be exposed in a big way.

[Philbccfc]

Nail on the head.

The keepers not being able to kick along with the centre backs and midfield being unable to play and still getting game time is that they are playing the Warnock way.
The fact that are playing in the team under Warnock is because we play in the style he asks us them and picks/signs players to suit.

If we tried to play a quicker, possession based, passing game then more than a few would be exposed in a big way.

Cant remember the last time our keepers were any good at kicking . What were the stats for passes long balls etc against Wigan.

[the other bob wilson]

There were posts when last season ended regarding his future. Some advocated for a change in manager and were also understanding if the board agreed to give him another crack at promotion.

I was part of that section of posters who advocated for Warnock to be replaced. The main reasons behind this was that the spine of the squad required investment and that was before the sale of Manga and Zohore. Why entrust transfer expenditure to a manager who is likely to only be there for a maximum of one season? And since then he's gone on record to suggest this will be his final roll of the dice.

That's what convinced me that it was time to either part ways or transition Neil into another senior role at the club. I appreciate everything he had done up to that point, you honestly cannot commend his achievements enough from taking Cardiff from 23rd to 2nd in 18 months. But following relegation and with the fact that central midfield required an overhaul, I felt it would be best to move on, rather than giving him the opportunity to sign players on 3-4 year contracts for some other manager to inherit months or one year down the line.

Now I'm not reacting to this defeat to Wigan and allowing that to sway my opinion. My statements above echo the statements I made in May and June. And they've since been amplified with the loss of Manga and Zohore as that has put further emphasis on the entire spine of the squad requiring new faces. This transfer window failed to deliver on that with just over 24 hours to go, it seems unlikely that there will be any further activity with regards to the key area that needed addressing come the end of the away win at Old Trafford, Cardiff need to strengthen in central midfield and have only recruited Vaulks so far.

I am hopeful that the remaining time in this window gives some positive news. But at this stage its been an underwhelming window, that has failed to raise optimism regarding mounting a serious promotion campaign this season. Wasn't that the whole reason why Warnock stayed on in the first place?

Good post. I was another who was saying that the end of last season seemed like the right type to have a change of manager and I'm pretty sure we weren't the only ones.

Warnock, surely, earned himself a full season to try to crack it in the Premier League with promotion in 17/18?

The transfer window does threaten to be completely underwhelming, but is that just down to the manager? Barring the sort of spending tomorrow I think we should be seeing from a club in our sort of position (and I don't mean huge amounts), it seems to me that we've gone at things kind of half arsed - certainly not "having a right go at it" like Mehmet Dalman I think it was said earlier in the summer.

I've also seen a line of thought which says that the money men have not been willing to give Warnock a lot to spend because of his not very good record at Cardiff when it comes to playing large fees for players, but why let him stay if that was the case?

[RonnieBird]

Well, perhaps they think he's quite good at managing the team and getting the best out of them.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

My posting this thread has nothing to do with losing the first game of the season. I'm sure few if any are basing their feelings on that. I wanted Neil gone at the end of last season. It would have given the new guy a chance to spend some money and bring his own players in. As Neil is still here he will have my full support and I still hope he can get us promotion. The underwhelming transfer window and failure to address weaknesses everyone else can see is bizarre, concerning and does not reflect well on the manager though.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

The underwhelming transfer window and failure to address weaknesses everyone else can see is bizarre, concerning and does not reflect well on the manager though.

As I've said before, I'll give him until Thursday but if we sell Damour and don't even replace him, we'll be going into a new season with 3 centre mids and currently 5 strikers when we often play 3 in the middle and 1 up front.

[The Hooded Claw]

To answer the original question, Warnock seems to me be an “impact” manager who does well for a time, but leaves no lasting legacy, as demonstrated by his unwillingness to play our younger players and his reliance on an old fashioned “oop and at ‘em” style of play.
Additionally, the club does seem a bit muddled at the moment; it can’t have helped with Mehmet being involved in takeover talks of his own re: Charlton.
The recruitment this window seems to have one eye on the future with some of the players brought in to the club.
I’m wondering if maybe Bamba is being lined up to take over from Warnock at some point during the season.
In terms of transfer spend: is the club keeping money aside in case they end up being liable for the Sala transfer? It’s gone very quiet in that front.
Personally, I can’t see us being in the mix for promotion based on squad strength and style of play.

[dml1954]

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.

He has picked this club up by its bootstraps, given it back its passion and pride and re-engaged the fans. Where exactly were we when he arrived three years ago ? - going nowhere but down to League One, thats where, under Slade and then Trollope. Our squad is much better now than it was two years ago but all you lot can do is moan that we haven't spent enough and are weak in midfield, even though we have Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna, Paterson, Reid, Hoilett, Whyte, Tomlin, Nelson, Bamba and Murphy who do or can play there. The anti Warnock brigade have all been made to look particularly stupid in the last three years by what has been achieved, so now, after one defeat, when four of our main players were missing anyway, the ‘bandwagon’ has been rolled out again and mock indignation at our ‘useless manager’ reigns supreme on here. Its all getting very boring now.

[J R Hartley]

But he signed them, that’s all I was really getting at.

This “neil Warnock player” line gets thrown around and it’s just lazy.

I don’t think it’s lazy he’s just been in the game a long time and people know what they are going to get from a Neil Warnock team. Fans, managers, ex pros, pundits.etc

I think it’s fairly obvious he values hard work above anything else, that’s not necessarily a negative for him, it’s brought him success.

He likes to play with wingers and thats as skillfull as it’s going to get. He doesn’t play with a number 10 yet signed 2...and then doesn’t play them (Reid and Tomlin) so obviously questions are going to be asked why sign them in the first place when we don’t play a system that gets the best out of a number 10.

Even with Camarasa he signed him and played him out wide to start!!

Ironically the only time a number 10 (of sorts) has worked for him in his time at City is Callum Patterson and he was signed as a right back!!!

[J R Hartley]

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.

He has picked this club up by its bootstraps, given it back its passion and pride and re-engaged the fans. Where exactly were we when he arrived three years ago ? - going nowhere but down to League One, thats where, under Slade and then Trollope. Our squad is much better now than it was two years ago but all you lot can do is moan that we haven't spent enough and are weak in midfield, even though we have Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna, Paterson, Reid, Hoilett, Whyte, Tomlin, Nelson, Bamba and Murphy who do or can play there. The anti Warnock brigade have all been made to look particularly stupid in the last three years by what has been achieved, so now, after one defeat, when four of our main players were missing anyway, the ‘bandwagon’ has been rolled out again and mock indignation at our ‘useless manager’ reigns supreme on here. Its all getting very boring now.

Murphy, Hoilett or Whyte in central midfield??? WTF?!?

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Good post. I was another who was saying that the end of last season seemed like the right type to have a change of manager and I'm pretty sure we weren't the only ones.

Warnock, surely, earned himself a full season to try to crack it in the Premier League with promotion in 17/18?

The transfer window does threaten to be completely underwhelming, but is that just down to the manager? Barring the sort of spending tomorrow I think we should be seeing from a club in our sort of position (and I don't mean huge amounts), it seems to me that we've gone at things kind of half arsed - certainly not "having a right go at it" like Mehmet Dalman I think it was said earlier in the summer.

I've also seen a line of thought which says that the money men have not been willing to give Warnock a lot to spend because of his not very good record at Cardiff when it comes to playing large fees for players, but why let him stay if that was the case?

Then again, Dalman, Choo et al aren't exactly brimming with 'football knowledge'. What always irks me about managers - including Warnock - is they would rather bring in 3 players who aren't really going to go straight into the side, when for 3 times the transfer fee and wages they probably would get one who would..

[thehumblegringo]

Murphy, Hoilett or Whyte in central midfield??? WTF?!?

He's also added Paterson and Bamba, so he may as well go the full hog and add Etheridge and Ronnie Jepson!

[J R Hartley]

Then again, Dalman, Choo et al aren't exactly brimming with 'football knowledge'. What always irks me about managers - including Warnock - is they would rather bring in 3 players who aren't really going to go straight into the side, when for 3 times the transfer fee and wages they probably would get one who would..

He said last summer we won’t be bringing in anyone for the sake of it, they had to be better than we already had and for 3 transfer windows that’s exactly what we’ve done. Brought in players who can’t get in the team.

Dalman likes to talk the talk but hes certainly not walking the walk.

It’s so underwhelming.

[J R Hartley]

He's also added Paterson and Bamba, so he may as well go the full hog and add Etheridge and Ronnie Jepson!

Might as well add Greg Cunningham to the list. Another player who can’t get a game. Maybe he can play midfield?

[sneggyblubird]

When he leaves I'll bet his phone won't stop ringing with championship clubs trying to talk him out of retirement.What will it be like if we lose 2 games in a row.

[Wales-Bales]

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.
I'm not slagging him off. He has done well, and now his time with us has come to it's own natural conclusion. He's good at turning around failing clubs, but he's not your guy for coming up with development plans that cover the next 3 to 5 years, and beyond.

[Seabird]

This may have been said before but I think Warnock's "reputation" or more accurately "Warnock-ball" frightens individual players from coming to the club and other better class clubs from loaning out players to us.

Agree with others that Warnock stating that he had no desire to manage again in the Premier League should have been the green light for a club with any great ambition to immediately start looking for someone to replace him.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.

He has picked this club up by its bootstraps, given it back its passion and pride and re-engaged the fans. Where exactly were we when he arrived three years ago ? - going nowhere but down to League One, thats where, under Slade and then Trollope. Our squad is much better now than it was two years ago but all you lot can do is moan that we haven't spent enough and are weak in midfield, even though we have Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna, Paterson, Reid, Hoilett, Whyte, Tomlin, Nelson, Bamba and Murphy who do or can play there. The anti Warnock brigade have all been made to look particularly stupid in the last three years by what has been achieved, so now, after one defeat, when four of our main players were missing anyway, the ‘bandwagon’ has been rolled out again and mock indignation at our ‘useless manager’ reigns supreme on here. Its all getting very boring now.

Josh Murphy in centre mid? I think I'd rather we played Brian there for crying out loud. I'm a Warnock fan and even I am extremely concerned as to what's gone on this summer. Don't you think it's a bit early to be planning to put square pegs in round holes? If we had an injury crisis, fine but we have the money and we're spending it on more strikers! Warnock has done a very good job in his time here but that doesn't excuse him from criticism.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

The people on this board who continuously slag off one of the best managers we have ever had are embarrassing themselves and the club generally. Luckily they are considerably in the minority and not representative of the people who go to the stadium regularly.

He has picked this club up by its bootstraps, given it back its passion and pride and re-engaged the fans. Where exactly were we when he arrived three years ago ? - going nowhere but down to League One, thats where, under Slade and then Trollope. Our squad is much better now than it was two years ago but all you lot can do is moan that we haven't spent enough and are weak in midfield, even though we have Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna, Paterson, Reid, Hoilett, Whyte, Tomlin, Nelson, Bamba and Murphy who do or can play there. The anti Warnock brigade have all been made to look particularly stupid in the last three years by what has been achieved, so now, after one defeat, when four of our main players were missing anyway, the ‘bandwagon’ has been rolled out again and mock indignation at our ‘useless manager’ reigns supreme on here. Its all getting very boring now.
No one is slagging him off. In fact the support Warnock receives is overwhelming on here. We all want to see him succeed but a lot of us are rightly concerned. Especially with the bizarre transfer window which is defying common sense and reflecting very poorly on the people in charge. And your player list of 'midfielders' is laughable. Only Vaulks, Bacuna and Ralls are midfielders. That's one of the problems!

[dembethewarrior]

None of our keepers can kick, none of our centre backs can play, Peltier is old school, none of our midfielders are all that on the ball and our strikers don't really score. So that.
Yet there are players in the squad that can actually play (therefore not “Warnock players”)

I’m not going round in circles I know I’m right.

[J R Hartley]

Yet there are players in the squad that can actually play (therefore not “Warnock players”)

I’m not going round in circles I know I’m right.

But he doesn’t play them :hehe:

[Sloop_Jon_Bee]

This is so unfair too the man :


beyond everyone's wildest dream he got us up
he then defied all the experts up to the last few games and had us in contention.
back end of the season we bloody injury ravaged with Bamba. Patterson, limping Cammasara ,Gunner and so many others crocked or limping on .
buy a striker and we know what happened then.
robbed against Chelsea.
bloody Leicester home game , could have been a better environment for us ( that was 6 points gone )
he got us up last with a nuts and bolts side
he's got no real financial backing once there
poor scouting team for years ,still the case ( club issue for me not him )
if we change now, its a brand new man , new squad ,bags of money needed FFS then hits us
transfers are always in the pools below a lot of other big midland /London established type clubs ( always has been )
were in Wales ( not every footballers dream destination especially those with roots and family in England )
needs a better development squad and investment ( club issue ).
no rich via of talent to tap into , as the bigger clubs are attracting those welsh youngsters .


Who would you have in , how much would he need , how much compensation do we pay out , how many players contact would we run down or cancel and at what cost.

We have played one ducking game FFS

:thumbup:

[surge]

I was someone advocating for him to stay and that was based on me thinking the job he was doing here was not yet finished and the stability he was able to bring. I also said that success this year would be in setting us up to compete over the next several years rather than what Neil has been talking about: one more promotion.

Playing style: we largely know what it's going to be but jumping from Slade to Trollope hardly worked out and I would advocate evolution of style rather than revolution. I can't remember who said it, it may have been me or I might have stolen it, but changing from DJ to Malky to Ole to Slade to Trollope was a bit like a drunk swaying from side to side: neither the club or the drunk has any idea about how its going to get to where it wants to go. Farke at Norwich may have done well in his second year but first did not pull up trees, and frankly we're getting posts questioning whether to question the manager after one defeat....

Transfers: I would love to know what transfers made this past summer people disagree with. If we end up with Smithies staying then I can't see the need for Day, I struggle to see the point in Flint given what we have here and that Warnock could easily find us a really good CB to cover us for the next three or four years, but apart from that I like the potential of each one.

It's very early in the season and while it was a concern to concede three goals on the opening day it really was just the opening day. He'll be gone in a year and if we're left with the core of a side to either challenge for promotion to premier league or aid survival, a new training facility and 18,000 plus season tickets no matter what league we're in then he'll have done well.

[thehumblegringo]

I was someone advocating for him to stay and that was based on me thinking the job he was doing here was not yet finished and the stability he was able to bring. I also said that success this year would be in setting us up to compete over the next several years rather than what Neil has been talking about: one more promotion.

Playing style: we largely know what it's going to be but jumping from Slade to Trollope hardly worked out and I would advocate evolution of style rather than revolution. I can't remember who said it, it may have been me or I might have stolen it, but changing from DJ to Malky to Ole to Slade to Trollope was a bit like a drunk swaying from side to side: neither the club or the drunk has any idea about how its going to get to where it wants to go. Farke at Norwich may have done well in his second year but first did not pull up trees, and frankly we're getting posts questioning whether to question the manager after one defeat....

Transfers: I would love to know what transfers made this past summer people disagree with. If we end up with Smithies staying then I can't see the need for Day, I struggle to see the point in Flint given what we have here and that Warnock could easily find us a really good CB to cover us for the next three or four years, but apart from that I like the potential of each one.

It's very early in the season and while it was a concern to concede three goals on the opening day it really was just the opening day. He'll be gone in a year and if we're left with the core of a side to either challenge for promotion to premier league or aid survival, a new training facility and 18,000 plus season tickets no matter what league we're in then he'll have done well.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't see the problem with a season or two of stabilization like Norwich did before we make serious inroads towards a promotion challenge.

The result Saturday is genuinely not an issue for me and I'm aware that anyone can beat anyone in this league.

I still expect us to do really well this season and Warnock will no doubt prove many wrong and set us up to get results we never thought possible.

I have no problem with going backwards to go forward though I don't think large sections our fan base would share my views. I'm aware that I see the game very differently to Bluetit or Lawnmower for example but that doesn't make either of us wrong.

I feel that we don't have a fan base primed to play the ball out from the back and I think people would go mad during the period of transition.

My problem isn't with the individuals who have been brought but rather that we haven't addressed the needs of our squad.

Our biggest need was to address the midfield and the full back situations and these have been neglected yet again.

Managers always seem to have blind spots, Wenger with defensive midfielders etc.
We always cried out for pace under Malky, Dave Jones which was left unaddressed.

As Hartley says, we sign players that clearly won't work hard enough for Warnock yet he seems surprised when they play as they've always play.

It would be nice to see us have a strategy that shows we're thinking about the balance of our squad.

[mazadona10]

I really don't get some people.

People can be critical of Warnock football or some of his ideas but you cannot question the miracle he is working here.

He basically built the club and brought it together. He pulled a squad together out of misfits and unwanted players. Got over 90 points and I think that league was far better than the one last year.

People say the players aren't good enough then surely the manager has worked miracle to only just miss out last season. We were truly unlucky and I feel we really deserved to stay up.

Then all of a sudden if the players are good enough then he has brought them in give him credit.

Everyone wants to see their team play like Man City and Liverpool but it's not going to happen because only some teams can succeed. Warnock goes against everything others are trying because it is effective we can dominate games we have 35% possession in

All of a sudden people seem to know what is the reason we win and lose.

Some people want attacking fluid football
Some people want to win
Some.people want a team of home grown players
Some want players who don't stop running

Warnock isn't perfect I do wish he would spend money on players who would actually play but he has already deliver much more than he should have

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

This is so unfair too the man :


beyond everyone's wildest dream he got us up
he then defied all the experts up to the last few games and had us in contention.
back end of the season we bloody injury ravaged with Bamba. Patterson, limping Cammasara ,Gunner and so many others crocked or limping on .
buy a striker and we know what happened then.
robbed against Chelsea.
bloody Leicester home game , could have been a better environment for us ( that was 6 points gone )
he got us up last with a nuts and bolts side
he's got no real financial backing once there
poor scouting team for years ,still the case ( club issue for me not him )
if we change now, its a brand new man , new squad ,bags of money needed FFS then hits us
transfers are always in the pools below a lot of other big midland /London established type clubs ( always has been )
were in Wales ( not every footballers dream destination especially those with roots and family in England )
needs a better development squad and investment ( club issue ).
no rich via of talent to tap into , as the bigger clubs are attracting those welsh youngsters .


Who would you have in , how much would he need , how much compensation do we pay out , how many players contact would we run down or cancel and at what cost.

We have played one ducking game FFS

1 game indeed...see how many teams come away from Wigan with 3 points..knee jerk reaction that's unfortunately becoming the norm in this we want it now world that we live in...****ing tories

[dembethewarrior]

Nail on the head.

The keepers not being able to kick along with the centre backs and midfield being unable to play and still getting game time is that they are playing the Warnock way.
The fact that are playing in the team under Warnock is because we play in the style he asks us them and picks/signs players to suit.

If we tried to play a quicker, possession based, passing game then more than a few would be exposed in a big way.
My post that he was replying to wasn’t suggesting we play a different style, I was pointing out the that “Neil Warnock players” aren’t all we sign because we have/have had players that can play since he came in, Pedro then picked out the most Warnock players in our team to counter me.

[NYCBlue]

I wish he had stepped down at the end of last season because I think we need a new playing philosophy at the club and we need to build. But Warnock wanted to stay and he just about earned that, so I begrudgeingly accepted it. Even if he managed to get back in the EPL with this team I don't think it would end any better than it did last time.

Getting the best out of older, limited players is getting old. I'd like to seem him do it with someone with young and talented. If Warnock can't get the best out of Murphy, and especially if he moves on Bobby Reid beacuse he can't work out how to play him, then I will have lost all faith in him.

[dembethewarrior]

Answer from me, after hearing the latest transfer news, is a big fat effing YES.

Tainted the good he’s done here now in just one transfer window.

[Gnojek]

Without doubt the past two hours or so on this board have seen the anti-Warnock feelings reach an all-time high since he joined us.

[PontBlue]

Answer from me, after hearing the latest transfer news, is a big fat effing YES.

Tainted the good he’s done here now in just one transfer window.
I will reserve final judgement for 24 hours but so far this summer's transfer window has damaged Warnock reputation in my eyes and perhaps he should have left at the end of last season.

[goats]

Letting bobby Reid go would show shocking lack of ambition. I think I’d finally lose the faith I had in NW too

[dml1954]

No one is slagging him off. In fact the support Warnock receives is overwhelming on here. We all want to see him succeed but a lot of us are rightly concerned. Especially with the bizarre transfer window which is defying common sense and reflecting very poorly on the people in charge. And your player list of 'midfielders' is laughable. Only Vaulks, Bacuna and Ralls are midfielders. That's one of the problems!

All of the players I listed have or can play midfield roles for us, in particular Paterson who played most of the season before last in central midfield and scored ten goals. Hoilett and Reid also regularly played midfield for their previous clubs, as did Tomlin. Nelson can/has played in front of the back four previously.

Also you can only sign players if they want to come here in the first place and their clubs agree to sell at a fee we can afford. These are facts obviously well beyond the scope of understanding of some people on here who also lay the blame at the managers door, even though the actual signing of players is nothing to do with him. The people advocating getting rid of the manager are mainly ones who have been wanting him gone almost since he came here.

[cardiff55]

Is it Warnock though? Or is it the board? Or the whoever scouts these players?

Does Warnock pick the players he wants or is he given them? It would seem the 'transfer committee (Dalman, Choo and Warnock) have held over a barrel with some of these transfers. Both with the fees and the contracts handed out.

When he came here he immediately brought in Hoilett and Bamba who have been excellent, then signed Etheridge and Mendez-Laing who have also been excellent....all for no fees and allegedly low wages. Even Damour was low risk when he cam on a free. And last season's loans of Arter, Camarassa and Niasse were not bad. But then look at other transfers Madine, Smithies, Cunningham at a reported £13.5m, Ward, Bogle and Tomlin at about £4m. Bacuna at £3m on a four and half year deal. Reid and Murphy at £21m and in and out of the team week to week?These all seem to have flopped except Bacuna who is still in favour. This summer started well with Vaulks, Day and Nelson at just £2m as what we thought would be squad fillers. Then nothing until last week with Whyte and Glatzel at £7.5m. It's hardly a sign of intent from a team newly relegated from the PL intending to to bounce back at the first attempt.

Then I waited, all week this week, and.....nothing. I have been hoping we'll be pleasantly surprised but when I heard the Vassell talk I was hardly inspired. It seems like we are deliberately trying to weaken the team or maybe it's just a series of bad transfers. And we still only have 5 central midfielders, two of which are Tomlin and Damour.

As I said earlier is it Warnock? Maybe the club are on a cost cutting exercise, like Swansea had to, and the club are not publicising this. But at least Swansea bought cheap and just got £35m for two players!

[dembethewarrior]

All of the players I listed have or can play midfield roles for us, in particular Paterson who played most of the season before last in central midfield and scored ten goals. Hoilett and Reid also regularly played midfield for their previous clubs, as did Tomlin. Nelson can/has played in front of the back four previously.

Also you can only sign players if they want to come here in the first place and their clubs agree to sell at a fee we can afford. These are facts obviously well beyond the scope of understanding of some people on here who also lay the blame at the managers door, even though the actual signing of players is nothing to do with him. The people advocating getting rid of the manager are mainly ones who have been wanting him gone almost since he came here.

He was an attacking midfielder, he timed his runs well to get into scoring positions.

What he isn’t though, is a CENTRAL midfielder. An attacking midfielder (or CAM) really is NOT a central midfielder, which is where we are short of bodies.

[dembethewarrior]

All of the players I listed have or can play midfield roles for us, in particular Paterson who played most of the season before last in central midfield and scored ten goals. Hoilett and Reid also regularly played midfield for their previous clubs, as did Tomlin. Nelson can/has played in front of the back four previously.

Also you can only sign players if they want to come here in the first place and their clubs agree to sell at a fee we can afford. These are facts obviously well beyond the scope of understanding of some people on here who also lay the blame at the managers door, even though the actual signing of players is nothing to do with him. The people advocating getting rid of the manager are mainly ones who have been wanting him gone almost since he came here.

We are talking swapping an expensive player for a cheap one, we seem to be downgrading and trying to turn a profit after saying “we’re having a right go”

I’ve always supported Neil, but I’m not going to blindly follow him just because he’s our manager. I am entitled to hold the opinion that Neil has done well and helped us but is NOW losing the plot a little.

Doesn’t mean I don’t support the club you effing wally. I’ll still support Neil and the players come too, but you know what!? I can STILL hold an opinion.

Quit your high and mighty crap mate.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

When he leaves I'll bet his phone won't stop ringing with championship clubs trying to talk him out of retirement.What will it be like if we lose 2 games in a row.

Slight hyperbole but he's more a fixer, not a long term option.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Letting bobby Reid go would show shocking lack of ambition. I think I’d finally lose the faith I had in NW too

If Reid went, it's highly possible that Warnock would have had no say in it.

[xsnaggle]

It reads too well for that.

That was might first thought. "Punctuation is too good!" :hehe:

[Enoch Mort]

If Reid went, it's highly possible that Warnock would have had no say in it.

It’s also highly possible that Warnock is too wily a character in the football world to be outdone by comparative novices like MD and KC and play the 2 off against VT to get his way.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

If Reid went, it's highly possible that Warnock would have had no say in it.

If Reid goes, I think this board will go into meltdown.

[SunderlandBluebird]

Maybe I'm being cynical but I can't see bobby reid going and I think the story would've been put out there so fans breathe a huge sigh of relief when we do little business either way, and see today as a success, forgetting we've not got a cm, rb etc in

If he does go then I despair. Wouldn't turn or anything but I think it'd be setting us back a few seasons as I hoped when a new manager came in next season he'd use Bobby Reid as his main man

[the other bob wilson]

Maybe I'm being cynical but I can't see bobby reid going and I think the story would've been put out there so fans breathe a huge sigh of relief when we do little business either way, and see today as a success, forgetting we've not got a cm, rb etc in

If he does go then I despair. Wouldn't turn or anything but I think it'd be setting us back a few seasons as I hoped when a new manager came in next season he'd use Bobby Reid as his main man

I for one won't suddenly start thinking it's been a good window if, say, we sign Vassell today and don't sell anyone because it will mean we have not done enough to tackle the gaping hole that the departures of Gunnarsson, Camarasa and Arter left in our squad.

[SunderlandBluebird]

I for one won't suddenly start thinking it's been a good window if, say, we sign Vassell today and don't sell anyone because it will mean we have not done enough to tackle the gaping hole that the departures of Gunnarsson, Camarasa and Arter left in our squad.

I completely agree, but I can see a few seeing it as a great day now if Vassell comes in, Reid stays and f all else happens.

I remember when Day, Nelson and Vaulks signed in 48 hours I thought that's a great start. Little did I know bar 2 strikers we know nothing about, that'd probably be it.

[Croesy Blue]

Maybe I'm being cynical but I can't see bobby reid going and I think the story would've been put out there so fans breathe a huge sigh of relief when we do little business either way, and see today as a success, forgetting we've not got a cm, rb etc in

If he does go then I despair. Wouldn't turn or anything but I think it'd be setting us back a few seasons as I hoped when a new manager came in next season he'd use Bobby Reid as his main man

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

And agree Reid could thrive under the right manager here.

[NottinghamBlue]

I for one won't suddenly start thinking it's been a good window if, say, we sign Vassell today and don't sell anyone because it will mean we have not done enough to tackle the gaping hole that the departures of Gunnarsson, Camarasa and Arter left in our squad.

+1. If we don't resolve our midfield issue today, we'll continue to get overrun a'la'Wigan. Also, we desperately need some pace in our defence.

[thehumblegringo]

Maybe I'm being cynical but I can't see bobby reid going and I think the story would've been put out there so fans breathe a huge sigh of relief when we do little business either way, and see today as a success, forgetting we've not got a cm, rb etc in

If he does go then I despair. Wouldn't turn or anything but I think it'd be setting us back a few seasons as I hoped when a new manager came in next season he'd use Bobby Reid as his main man

I don't think it's a case of turning for me. It would just completely kill my enthusiasm to watch us play.

I'm already a bit perturbed with the lack of skill on display and yet to sell who is my opinion our best player not because we have an offer we can't refuse (aka Dan James) but cos our manager can't work out a way how to get the best out of him cos he's not 6 foot 2 and 15 stone.

This would be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me.

[Bald Barry Bastad]

I don't think it's a case of turning for me. It would just completely kill my enthusiasm to watch us play.

I'm already a bit perturbed with the lack of skill on display and yet to sell who is my opinion our best player not because we have an offer we can't refuse (aka Dan James) but cos our manager can't work out a way how to get the best out of him cos he's not 6 foot 2 and 15 stone.

This would be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me.

This maybe a little harsh on the rest but not only is Reid one of our best players. For me he is one of the very few footballers we have. Warnock says this is his last season. At least keep Reid so the next manager can make better use of him.