View Full Version : Exit Poll Its PM Boris with 80 odd majority
Elwood Blues
12-12-19, 22:03
5 years of Boris
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 22:05
Brexit wins.
It's the Slough of Despond
5 years of Boris
Lets hope Labour learns from this and gets rid of its unelectable front bench.
This started when they chose the wrong Milliband brother.
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 22:07
Lets hope Labour learns from this and gets rid of its unelectable front bench.
This started when they chose the wrong Milliband brother.
They should have gone for the Blair version?
life on mars
12-12-19, 22:10
Thats big and not what I was expecting. It would be the worse Labour election result since 1930's, early doors I would say ??
They should have gone for the Blair version?
If they wanted to win. There’s too many old people in the uk who don’t trust labour governments. In 30 years I imagine things will be different.
life on mars
12-12-19, 22:11
They should have gone for the Blair version?
I might stand on a Blair without a war ticket as he did okay other than war
5 years of Boris
Find this hard to believe but exit polls have never been wrong ??
Elwood Blues
12-12-19, 22:14
Find this hard to believe but exit polls have never been wrong ??
They have been near enough correct since 1992 I think
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 22:18
I might stand on a Blair without a war ticket as he did okay other than war
Just don't mention the war!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tms0yk9kqVM
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:19
Brexit wins.
I bet the Tories and Brexit party get less than 50%.
If true this is a crushing blow for Labour. Even John Macdonald now on BBC seems to believe the game is up. There is no support for left wing radical policies and their policy to fudge BREXIT was catastrophic. If Labour are to succeed in future they need a more moderate leader with more centralist policies. There are some good people in Labour - Hilary Benn, Rachel Reeves Yvette Cooper, Caroline Flint, Lisa Nandy etc - who have been marginalised in favour of John Macdonald, Dianne Abbot, Rebecca Long Bailey and Laura Pidcock to name a few. None of these are appealing to a moderate electorate. Had Labour had a different leader and different front bench they could have walked this election. But they committed electoral suicide by pursuing policies that were simply too radical. Now we have to put up with the untrustworthy buffoon Boris Johnson but given the alternative I'm glad assuming of course the exit poll is correct.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:21
If true this is a crushing blow for Labour. Even John Macdonald now on BBC seems to believe the game is up. There is no support for left wing radical policies and their policy to fudge BREXIT was catastrophic. If Labour are to succeed in future they need a more moderate leader with more centralist policies. There are some good people in Labour - Hilary Benn, Rachel Reeves Yvette Cooper, Caroline Flint, Lisa Nandy etc - who have been marginalised in favour of John Macdonald, Dianne Abbot, Rebecca Long Bailey and Laura Pidcock to name a few. None of these are appealing to a moderate electorate. Had Labour had a different leader and different front bench they could have walked this election. But they committed electoral suicide by pursuing policies that were simply too radical. Now we have to put up with the untrustworthy buffoon Boris Johnson but given the alternative I'm glad.
That's utter shit. There's lots of support for Labour policies but the media and the establishment runs the country.
That's utter shit. There's lots of support for Labour policies but the media and the establishment runs the country.
The media and establishment don't vote.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:23
The media and establishment don't vote.
No, but they control the thoughts of so many.
dandywarhol
12-12-19, 22:28
I'm not bothered. I get my old age pension.
Company pension.
Anybody on benefits needs to start worrying.
The Tories will go for them.
With regard to Brexit the ball is in the hands of the Tories. If it goes tits up Labour will be back in the game.
The SNP will want a, referendum on independence.
kin ell 5 more years of bojo if the polls are correct . think the stance Labour took on Brexit have killed them . 5 million labour voters voted out in the UK in the referendum and looks like they turned blue on that basis especially in the north of England
The likes of Caroline Flint will probably lose their seat. Corbyn Abbott McDonnell etc should f off and give up their seats. Embarrassing getting smashed by that buffoon Johnson.
Yup.
Corbyn loses. Labour dropped a massive bollock not yanking him. He is reviled. People don't like Johnson, but they hate Corbyn.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 22:35
Total disaster
Corbyn and his crew need to go now
I would like Rachael Reeves as leader , sharp political and economic brain
God help the poor and disadvantaged
Elwood Blues
12-12-19, 22:37
That's utter shit. There's lots of support for Labour policies but the media and the establishment runs the country.
There's none so blind.......
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
12-12-19, 22:37
kin ell 5 more years of bojo if the polls are correct . think the stance Labour took on Brexit have killed them . 5 million labour voters voted out in the UK in the referendum and looks like they turned blue on that basis especially in the north of England
They were knackered either way - plenty of Labour voters voted to remain. But imagine looking at Johnson and thinking that's the guy to lead us. What a shabby, ridiculous country.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 22:37
The likes of Caroline Flint will probably lose their seat. Corbyn Abbott McDonnell etc should f off and give up their seats. Embarrassing getting smashed by that buffoon Johnson.
Well said
Organ Morgan.
12-12-19, 22:38
I'm not bothered. I get my old age pension.
Company pension.
Anybody on benefits needs to start worrying.
The Tories will go for them.
With regard to Brexit the ball is in the hands of the Tories. If it goes tits up Labour will be back in the game.
The SNP will want a, referendum on independence.
Just to point out, the State Pension is also a benefit and has been defined as such since 1946. But as you may have implied, State Pensioners with their triple lock guarantee and me, me, me attitude form a large Conservative voting block.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 22:38
They were knackered either way - plenty of Labour voters voted to remain. But imagine looking at Johnson and thinking that's the guy to lead us. What a shabby, ridiculous country.
Indeed what a disaster
Total disaster
Corbyn and his crew need to go now
I would like Rachael Reeves as leader , sharp political and economic brain
God help the poor and disadvantaged
Yup, and god help them when we have another blairite policy led labour party.
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 22:40
No, but they control the thoughts of so many.
The figure is very high.
I normally love watching the tv coverage on election nights, but tonight I just feel totally dejected and worried over what this country has become.
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 22:45
I normally love watching the tv coverage on election nights, but tonight I just feel totally dejected and worried over what this country has become.
I'd blame the politicians for not listening to the people. They only have themselves to blame.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:46
There's none so blind.......
I'm not. Blind policy tests keep showing that Labour policies are more popular than Tory policies. Most of the print media is owned by Tory donors. The Tories are the establishment.
What bits of this do you disagree with?
I normally love watching the tv coverage on election nights, but tonight I just feel totally dejected and worried over what this country has become.
Im making sure I dont watch any news channels.
Labour need to act quickly. Hopefully McDonnell Corbyn Abbott and others quit tomorrow.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:47
The figure is very high.
Showing the influence the media has.
Eric Cartman
12-12-19, 22:48
Bye bye England/Wales. Full of retards.
I'm not. Blind policy tests keep showing that Labour policies are more popular than Tory policies. Most of the print media is owned by Tory donors. The Tories are the establishment.
What bits of this do you disagree with?
Well the inevitable massacre of the Labour party by a buffoon who the media have also shown him to be just that as well suggests otherwise.
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 22:51
Showing the influence the media has.
They have refined the propaganda techniques to a level where they are almost invisible to the average person.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:51
Well the inevitable massacre of the Labour party by a buffoon who the media have also shown him to be just that as well suggests otherwise.
No it doesn't, it proves it. Policies don't matter. If they were allowed to matter, different story.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:52
They have refined the propaganda techniques to a level where they are almost invisible to the average person.
Stupid prick.
Jordi Culé
12-12-19, 22:53
The country has just voted for a uncaring, lazy, lying, racist, homophobic cuunt who can't even be questioned or scrutinised without him trying to run off or divert attention with his wanker behaviour.
Voted for by old ***** who have the same views as him. I hope the youngsters in this country vote for involuntary euthanasia no start bumping these doddery old ****ers off in a few years.
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 22:53
Stupid prick.
Why do you think people fall for it?
William Treseder
12-12-19, 22:54
No, but they control the thoughts of so many.
Now that is utter shit.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:55
Now that is utter shit.
:hehe: Really?
Do you think the media has no control over how people think?
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:55
Why do you think people fall for it?
Stupidity. Like yours.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 22:56
Boris and trump , I am fecking staggered we have elected this idiot with such a large majority
Cant wait for these new tory voters in wales to start moaning that life under the tories is tough
Too fecking late now you idiots , go and cry to boris , he will help you
No it doesn't, it proves it. Policies don't matter. If they were allowed to matter, different story.
This election the number 1 item on the agenda was Brexit. That plank Corbyn and his merrymen and women came up with we will get a deal put it to the vote and campaign against it Sorry absolutely pathetic. Come up with that sort of cr@p and its no wonder the public have no trust.
Corbyn and co have caused this.
William Treseder
12-12-19, 22:56
Showing the influence the media has.
You just can’t accept that the majority in the UK have a different opinion to you. Get over it !
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:57
This election the number 1 item on the agenda was Brexit. That plank Corbyn and his merrymen and women came up with we will get a deal put it to the vote and campaign against. Sorry absolutely pathetic. Come up with thay sort of cr@p and its no wonder the public have no trust.
Corbyn and co have caused this.
Glad you think the NHS, homelessness etc are minor issues in comparison.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 22:58
The country has just voted for a uncaring, lazy, lying, racist, homophobic cuunt who can't even be questioned or scrutinised without him trying to run off or divert attention with his wanker behaviour.
Voted for by old ***** who have the same views as him. I hope the youngsters in this country vote for involuntary euthanasia no start bumping these doddery old ****ers off in a few years.
Voted for by a lot of former labour voters who sadly are bigoted and ignorant , just like boris
If true this is a crushing blow for Labour. Even John Macdonald now on BBC seems to believe the game is up. There is no support for left wing radical policies and their policy to fudge BREXIT was catastrophic. If Labour are to succeed in future they need a more moderate leader with more centralist policies. There are some good people in Labour - Hilary Benn, Rachel Reeves Yvette Cooper, Caroline Flint, Lisa Nandy etc - who have been marginalised in favour of John Macdonald, Dianne Abbot, Rebecca Long Bailey and Laura Pidcock to name a few. None of these are appealing to a moderate electorate. Had Labour had a different leader and different front bench they could have walked this election. But they committed electoral suicide by pursuing policies that were simply too radical. Now we have to put up with the untrustworthy buffoon Boris Johnson but given the alternative I'm glad assuming of course the exit poll is correct.
They were between a rock and a hard place on Brexit, but I don't think any of their policies were radical.
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 22:59
Stupidity. Like yours.
They've got a behavioural change unit in Downing Street. Behavioural change is another word for propaganda, except its a lot more subtle these days.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 22:59
You just can’t accept that the majority in the UK have a different opinion to you. Get over it !
Blind policy surveys keep showing Labour's policies are the most popular.
Most of the UK media is run by the political right. During this campaign Channel 4 has been a target of the Tories for challenging them.
There isn't a level playing field. It is being run by the establishment and the wealthy elite. Most people in the UK think the way they do because of the media.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 23:01
They've got a behavioural change unit in Downing Street. Behavioural change is another word for propaganda, except its a lot more subtle these days.
You've obviously been through it.
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 23:03
You've obviously been through it.
You're the one who said the media are influencing people! Make up your mind mun, either they are or they aren't.
Johnson will now need to produce a Brexit deal that helps all those Labour Leave voters. They will be sorely disappointed.
Corbyn must go tomorrow. Labour now need to take their time and ensure they select a leader that will appeal not only in the north and Midlands as well as middle England. If they have to go towards the centre so be it because a moderate Labour Govt trumps any Tory Govt
William Treseder
12-12-19, 23:05
:hehe: Really?
Do you think the media has no control over how people think?
Not as much as you’re making out. The majority of folk all over the UK are quite capable of thinking for themselves. Let’s be fair, Cobyin has been about as popular as a turd in a swimming pool, even amongst his own party.
Trying to win this election with him at the helm has cost them dear.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 23:07
Not as much as you’re making out.
I disagree. Most of the print media have savaged Corbyn since day one, because they knew he'd force them to pay tax. This is the same media that wanted Corbyn as Labour leader. The role the likes of the Sun and Mail plays is very significant.
Glad you think the NHS, homelessness etc are minor issues in comparison.
I dont and didnt say that either.
To protect them Labour had to win. To win the battleground is the marginals. That was never going to happen with the lot fronting Labour up and this election whether u like it or not was dominated by brexit. Corbyns policy was sh!t.
And on the subject this Corbyn led Labour party was absolutely useless during the Brexit campaign as well. Better leadership and Brexit may not have happened anyway.
Not as much as you’re making out. The majority of folk all over the UK are quite capable of thinking for themselves. Let’s be fair, Cobyin has been about as popular as a turd in a swimming pool, even amongst his own party.
Trying to win this election with him at the helm has cost them dear.
Maybe true, but are you saying that has got nothing to do with a 4 year media demolition campaign?
Jordi Culé
12-12-19, 23:08
Voted for by a lot of former labour voters who sadly are bigoted and ignorant , just like boris
Agree totally. What the EU referendum and this general election has shown is the generation who grew experience peace, love and understanding in the 60s are now racist, uncaring and selfish cuunts now.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 23:08
You're the one who said the media are influencing people! Make up your mind mun, either they are or they aren't.
What are you wittering on about?
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 23:09
Not as much as you’re making out. The majority of folk all over the UK are quite capable of thinking for themselves. Let’s be fair, Cobyin has been about as popular as a turd in a swimming pool, even amongst his own party.
Trying to win this election with him at the helm has cost them dear.
I'm with Eric, the media have a lot of control over what people think, and the way they present information is very clever.
Organ Morgan.
12-12-19, 23:09
Boris and trump , I am fecking staggered we have elected this idiot with such a large majority
Cant wait for these new tory voters in wales to start moaning that life under the tories is tough
Too fecking late now you idiots , go and cry to boris , he will help you
Tories are forecast to capture Bridgend. Will it stop your fanny watch loitering inside McArthurGlen as a protest?
"No, of course not!" I hear you cry.
William Treseder
12-12-19, 23:10
Blind policy surveys keep showing Labour's policies are the most popular.
Most of the UK media is run by the political right. During this campaign Channel 4 has been a target of the Tories for challenging them.
There isn't a level playing field. It is being run by the establishment and the wealthy elite. Most people in the UK think the way they do because of the media.
That is utter Bollux. You haven’t been able to accept the original result of the Brecit vote, and you now appear to be unable to accept that the torries are gonna piss it.
You’re making yourself look a complete fool.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 23:10
Johnson will now need to produce a Brexit deal that helps all those Labour Leave voters. They will be sorely disappointed.
Corbyn must go tomorrow. Labour now need to take their time and ensure they select a leader that will appeal not only in the north and Midlands as well as middle England. If they have to go towards the centre so be it because a moderate Labour Govt trumps any Tory Govt
I totally agree , we need a centre ground
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 23:11
What are you wittering on about?
The influence of the media.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 23:11
I dont and didnt say that either.
To protect them Labour had to win. To win the battleground is the marginals. That was never going to happen with the lot fronting Labour up and this election whether u like it or not was dominated by brexit. Corbyns policy was sh!t.
And on the subject this Corbyn led Labour party was absolutely useless during the Brexit campaign as well. Better leadership and Brexit may not have happened anyway.
How do you know it was useless? From what you read or see in the media?
William Treseder
12-12-19, 23:11
I'm with Eric, having studied it the media have a lot of control over what people think, and the way they present information is very clever.
Nonsense.
Johnson will now need to produce a Brexit deal that helps all those Labour Leave voters. They will be sorely disappointed.
Corbyn must go tomorrow. Labour now need to take their time and ensure they select a leader that will appeal not only in the north and Midlands as well as middle England. If they have to go towards the centre so be it because a moderate Labour Govt trumps any Tory Govt
Agree apart from he wont have to find a deal to help Labour Leave voters. He wont give a sh!t.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 23:12
Tories are forecast to capture Bridgend. Will it stop your fanny watch loitering inside McArthurGlen as a protest?
"No, of course not!" I hear you cry.
I am banned from said establishment
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 23:14
Agree apart from he wont have to find a deal to help Labour Leave voters. He wont give a sh!t.
They voted for him , it will be too late to cry
The tories have won the blue collar vote over
But they are going to get shafted
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 23:14
That is utter Bollux. You haven’t been able to accept the original result of the Brecit vote, and you now appear to be unable to accept that the torries are gonna piss it.
You’re making yourself look a complete fool.
No I'm not. Every election, based on policies, Labour wins. This one was no different. Do some research. Look at how the Tories intend clamping down on sections of the media that haven't supported them. It's a coup. You won't agree as you're a tory. I understand.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 23:15
The influence of the media.
Or the stupidity of the average voter.
Eric the Half a Bee
12-12-19, 23:16
Nonsense.
Do you believe what the media prints is irrelevant and makes little difference to how people think? If so, please get help.
Wales-Bales
12-12-19, 23:17
Nonsense.
I told you they were good, you didn't even notice it! :-)
Gofer Blue
12-12-19, 23:27
Just to point out, the State Pension is also a benefit and has been defined as such since 1946. But as you may have implied, State Pensioners with their triple lock guarantee and me, me, me attitude form a large Conservative voting block.
How dare you include me in that "assessment"!
Bobby Dandruff
12-12-19, 23:29
5 years of Boris
Isn’t there another separate message board on CCMB for politics?
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 23:35
Blyth valley , former mining town has gone tory
Fecking disaster
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 23:38
Lord bucket head would have made a better leader than Corbyn the useless idiot
William Treseder
12-12-19, 23:39
No I'm not. Every election, based on policies, Labour wins. This one was no different. Do some research. Look at how the Tories intend clamping down on sections of the media that haven't supported them. It's a coup. You won't agree as you're a tory. I understand.
Never voted Tory in my life, including today.
Just dont agree with your opinion on media influence. Is that allowed?, or do I let you brainwash me?😁
William Treseder
12-12-19, 23:41
Do you believe what the media prints is irrelevant and makes little difference to how people think? If so, please get help.
You’re becoming paranoid.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 23:41
I reckon cardiff north will go tory and gower in swansea
Optimistic Nick
12-12-19, 23:42
Bizarre that a seat that rushes to announce early because the decision is a foregone conclusion ends up with a change of party.
Long way to go etc etc, but even to the untrained eye, a Tory MP in a mining town just seems bonkers.
superfeathers
12-12-19, 23:46
Turkies have well and truly voted for Christmas today.
All about Brexit which they think will make their country / area better.
Because majority Tory governments have great form for looking after working class areas don’t they...
With a liar leading the way
the other bob wilson
12-12-19, 23:48
Agree totally. What the EU referendum and this general election has shown is the generation who grew experience peace, love and understanding in the 60s are now racist, uncaring and selfish cuunts now.
It's too early to make judgements yet, but if the exit poll is anything like right, then I'm not sure the result can be "blamed" on one generation. For an outcome like the predicted one to happen, I would have thought most age groups would have had to have favoured the Conservatives and there might have been more than expected remain voters who thought the Referendum vote had to be honoured no matter what.
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 23:49
Bizarre that a seat that rushes to announce early because the decision ends up with a change of party.
Long way to go etc etc, but even to the untrained eye, a Tory MP in a mining town just seems bonkers.
Tory mp in bridgend with the poverty they have there , do they really think boris is going to help them out there ?
Basically we had a crap leader and in these areas where there are very few immigrants they voted brexit
But it's like turkeys voting for xmas and they are going to get a right stuffing
And blame europe and immigrants again
SLUDGE FACTORY
12-12-19, 23:49
Turkies have well and truly voted for Christmas today.
All about Brexit which they think will make their country / area better.
Because majority Tory governments have great form for looking after working class areas don’t they...
With a liar leading the way
You got it
Laughable sayin lots of support for labour policies.
Boris is a joke. I don’t think he will be good for the county, however
Corbyn was unelectable, and his polices only looked good to those living in a wonderland
Eric the Half a Bee
13-12-19, 00:10
You’re becoming paranoid.
Glad you believe that people always know what to think and there's little need for the printed media.
Eric the Half a Bee
13-12-19, 00:10
Laughable sayin lots of support for labour policies.
According to who?
Optimistic Nick
13-12-19, 00:12
According to who?
So far - the electorate.
According to who?
???? VOTERS
That was an easy one to answer. Labour won’t recover from this for the next election either.. to big a gap. 10 years of tories coming up.
So pretty clear. Poor polices don’t win votes.
Listen to the labour MP’s on your TV... they are saying Corbyn was the issue on the door step. Corbyn and his polices
Eric the Half a Bee
13-12-19, 00:26
???? VOTERS
That was an easy one to answer. Labour won’t recover from this for the next election either.. to big a gap. 10 years of tories coming up.
So pretty clear. Poor polices don’t win votes.
Listen to the labour MP’s on your TV... they are saying Corbyn was the issue on the door step. Corbyn and his polices
Because of his policies or because people have been swayed by the media opinions on his policies, especially tax evasion and making the most wealthy pay?
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 00:26
Labour candidate for stoke is fuming , fully expects to lose his seat and blames corbyn and his lot for the heavy defeat
And in my opinion , he is right
Together with the leavers from non immigration areas that voted tory
Shame on the lot of them , they will get stuffed by the very party they voted for
Optimistic Nick
13-12-19, 00:28
Because of his policies or because people have been swayed by the media opinions on his policies, especially tax evasion and making the most wealthy pay?
You seem to think very little of the public's ability to think for themselves.
Eric the Half a Bee
13-12-19, 00:31
You seem to think very little of the public's ability to think for themselves.
I do.
If a bomb goes off somewhere, we're reliant on the news provided.
I believe we've been convinced, as a country, that tax is bad, we don't want to pay it, but we should have top public services for nothing.
Anyone believing the political news network is an unbiased, honest account are idiots.
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
13-12-19, 00:33
It seems at election time people prefer to hear the vague, jingoistic battle cries even if they're led by a bigoted muppet. Britain is a conservative country; it takes more of an effort to get Labour in and it seems a lot more has to be aligned for that to happen.
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 00:40
I think brexit has changed everything its fecked the labour party as many of its core voters are bigots and uneducated fools who have voted for a party ready to shit on them
And thanks to them and corbyn this country is fecked
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 00:44
It seems at election time people prefer to hear the vague, jingoistic battle cries even if they're led by a bigoted muppet. Britain is a conservative country; it takes more of an effort to get Labour in and it seems a lot more has to be aligned for that to happen.
Rumours are cardiff north is going tory
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
13-12-19, 00:50
Rumours are cardiff north is going tory
That's disappointing but not all that surprising. Tories often win there and did in 2015 (I think).
Elwood Blues
13-12-19, 00:50
Do you believe what the media prints is irrelevant and makes little difference to how people think? If so, please get help.
No of course it is not irrelevant.
But I think that many people have more sense than you think.l99
Optimistic Nick
13-12-19, 00:51
I do.
If a bomb goes off somewhere, we're reliant on the news provided.
I believe we've been convinced, as a country, that tax is bad, we don't want to pay it, but we should have top public services for nothing.
Anyone believing the political news network is an unbiased, honest account are idiots.
I think you are miles off on a lot of this. I'd not dismiss anyone who watches/reads the news as an idiot. I'd also suggest that to assume that you've got the insight to see the bias but the great unwashed do not is a bit rich, too.
Optimistic Nick
13-12-19, 00:57
Labour candidate for stoke is fuming , fully expects to lose his seat and blames corbyn and his lot for the heavy defeat
And in my opinion , he is right
I thought he spoke brilliantly. Answered the question, not afraid to state his position, was concise, clear and targeted. I wish all politicians would do that and not just repeat their pre-prepared soundbites.
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 01:01
It seems at election time people prefer to hear the vague, jingoistic battle cries even if they're led by a bigoted muppet. Britain is a conservative country; it takes more of an effort to get Labour in and it seems a lot more has to be aligned for that to happen.
I thought he spoke brilliantly. Answered the question, not afraid to state his position, was concise, clear and targeted. I wish all politicians would do that and not just repeat their pre-prepared soundbites.
Female on now used to work for the labour party , has slated corbyn for anti semitism , stupid spending plans , bullying culture in the party , has got to go tomorrow and take momentum with him
Joe Gillis
13-12-19, 01:04
That's utter shit. There's lots of support for Labour policies but the media and the establishment runs the country.
So its all the fault of the media?bollocks!
Joe Gillis
13-12-19, 01:21
I think brexit has changed everything its fecked the labour party as many of its core voters are bigots and uneducated fools who have voted for a party ready to shit on them
And thanks to them and corbyn this country is fecked
Calling half the country idiots and fools, as yourself and many others have done for the last three years, (Steve Coogan, speaking this morning, is a prime example) merely entrenched the Brexiteers views. Allied with a leader who was totally unelectable then it seems that Labour has got everything it deserved.
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 01:23
Former soft tory mp Heidi Allen has just commented
What we have is a very dangerous situation , a tory party purged of its liberal side leaving a hard right conservative party with a fragmented , ineffective opposition
I think its thatcherism all over again and what kept her in was a weakened opposition
Maybe we have to accept , those of us who don't vote tory that the only way to defeat them is to form a coalition party made up of liberals , labour , independents , basically the sixty percent who don't vote tory
Either that or the labour party has a root and branch reform from top to bottom
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 01:27
It seems at election time people prefer to hear the vague, jingoistic battle cries even if they're led by a bigoted muppet. Britain is a conservative country; it takes more of an effort to get Labour in and it seems a lot more has to be aligned for that to happen.
I thought he spoke brilliantly. Answered the question, not afraid to state his position, was concise, clear and targeted. I wish all politicians would do that and not just repeat their pre-prepared soundbites.
Calling half the country idiots and fools, as yourself and many others have done for the last three years, (Steve Coogan, speaking this morning, is a prime example) merely entrenched the Brexiteers views. Allied with a leader who was totally unelectable then it seems that Labour has got everything it deserved.
Well I am afraid that the truth hurts ......people who are going to face the full force of free market capitalism have become turkeys voting for xmas
They are going to get shafted and they will face the consequences
That's a combination of utter stupidity and an awful leader
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 01:37
Heidi Allen
What are the working class people of Darlington going to do when brexit has been done and they face financial hardship under the tories ?
Turn to universal credit ?
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 01:42
Tory vote has only increased by three percent
What's won if for them is the collapse of the labour vote by eleven perce
What a disaster for corbyn
Organ Morgan.
13-12-19, 01:55
A right sort that Heidi Allen.
I note the Tory Party are now massively odds-on to take the Beast of Bolsover Dennis Skinner's seat which he's held since 1970. It has never returned anything other than a Labour candidate. Even in 1983 under Michael Foot's leadership when the party was hammered Skinner held it with a 14,000 majority.
Eric Cartman
13-12-19, 01:58
****ing mess. Didn't expect this and makes me evaluate my future. I don't feel like I have anything in common with the typical English voter. I'm devastated.
Organ Morgan.
13-12-19, 02:06
Leigh, Labour since 1922, now Tory. A Welsh equivalent would be somewhere like Merthyr going the same way.
Why the hell is Wales turning blue? Dear God.
life on mars
13-12-19, 03:10
Critically labours 4th election defeat in a row?
Blair type moderate Labour not liked ?.
Labour winning multi culture urban areas ?
Workington man is a Tory ?
What next Momentum more destruction of a party I supported for so long you let the loonies free and brought us Boris majority ,thanks .
Some good news DUP are a spent force .
Wales turning blue ?
Seat of leigh labour since the 1920 's.
Yep the Labour project gone so well .
At least it keeps its London elitism , that won't serve them well in the North or Midlands .
Bye bye England/Wales. Full of retards.
It's embarrassing isn't it?
Elwood Blues
13-12-19, 03:35
Tory vote has only increased by three percent
What's won if for them is the collapse of the labour vote by eleven perce
What a disaster for corbyn
Even worse Sludge
Caroline Flint has lost Don Valley
Elwood Blues
13-12-19, 03:47
And now Jo Swinson has gone!!
Laughable sayin lots of support for labour policies.
It's not funny. People are too stupid to vote for policies they like.
It's the same here. People thought they hated "Obamacare". Until they found out it was the Affordable Care Act and it was where they got their healthcare plan from.
You seem to think very little of the public's ability to think for themselves.
Don't you?
Organ Morgan.
13-12-19, 03:54
And now Jo Swinson has gone!!
Sludge will be inconsolable about the Lib Dem leader's loss of her seat. He's no fan of her politics but he'll sorely miss the sight of her massive mammaries.
I reckon cardiff north will go tory and gower in swansea
Thankfully Anna McMorrin seemed to buck the trend and actually increased her majority.
[QUOTE=Eric the Half a Bee;5028539]No, but they control the thoughts of
Vindec pretty much sums it up.
Accept the results like a man, like some of the decent Labour MP's who seem to realise where they have gone monumentally wrong, instead of blaming everyone else.
If Labour can rid themselves of their hard left and concentrate on some of the excellent, realistic and honest MP's they have and build around that, then they have grounds to rise from these ashes and take the Conservatives to task at the next elections.
The size of defeat could be the saving of the Labour party in the longer term.
Jordi Culé
13-12-19, 07:23
It's too early to make judgements yet, but if the exit poll is anything like right, then I'm not sure the result can be "blamed" on one generation. For an outcome like the predicted one to happen, I would have thought most age groups would have had to have favoured the Conservatives and there might have been more than expected remain voters who thought the Referendum vote had to be honoured no matter what.
I'll concede my opinion is more anecdotal than evidenced by statistics but I'll wager that it'll be the older age groups that have voted for a lying, racist buffoon to run the country.
I agree that the subject of Brexit has also influenced strongly the results. Personally, I'm a remainder but think the referendum result should have been honoured even though I think the campaign was littered with lies. Similarly the Tory campaign for the GE has also been littered with mistruths and avoiding scrutiny. Politics today seems to be more about populism than policies?
What a ****ing country.
Populism is about offering the people everything for free.
A lot of young people and gullible believed the false promises of Corbyn.
The vast majority can see that this country would be bankrupt in no time and inflation would have risen to above 15% within 2 years.
This along with reneging on the Brexit referendum.
Along with the vile creatures that are Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell.
Labour have had their worst results since the 1930's in spite of:
Johnson
9 years of mainly necessary austerity
Biased TV coverage in favour Labour and remain
Apparently Conservatives and Brexiteers being uncaring and as Steve Coogan said, ignorant and ill informed.
Used to like Coogan, but as his alter ego would say, we had the last laugh. Take your foot out of your mouth and shove it up your backside Steve 🤣
This morning I am so very proud of my Britain, our wonderful Britain 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
WJ99mobile
13-12-19, 07:44
Nice to have politics back on the main board
WJ99mobile
13-12-19, 07:44
Didn’t vote labour but I actually like Corbyn. Tried to make the country a better place but no one likes massive change
Populism is about offering the people everything for free.
A lot of young people and gullible believed the false promises of Corbyn.
The vast majority can see that this country would be bankrupt in no time and inflation would have risen to above 15% within 2 years.
This along with reneging on the Brexit referendum.
Along with the vile creatures that are Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell.
Labour have had their worst results since the 1930's in spite of:
Johnson
9 years of mainly necessary austerity
Biased TV coverage in favour Labour and remain
Apparently Conservatives and Brexiteers being uncaring and as Steve Coogan said, ignorant and ill informed.
Used to like Coogan, but as his alter ego would say, we had the last laugh. Take your foot out of your mouth and shove it up your backside Steve 🤣
This morning I am so very proud of my Britain, our wonderful Britain 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
I don’t agree with anything you have said but biased TV coverage in favour of Labour and Remain has got to be the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.
Thankfully Anna McMorrin seemed to buck the trend and actually increased her majority.
Her voting numbers were actually down, she only increased her % win because of people voting for Lib Dem’s and the Brexit party.
The ,Conservative fellas numbers were up
Didn’t vote labour but I actually like Corbyn. Tried to make the country a better place but no one likes massive change
Nice people don’t fit in in politics here, or in society maybe? We are too brutal and greedy here these days
I'll concede my opinion is more anecdotal than evidenced by statistics but I'll wager that it'll be the older age groups that have voted for a lying, racist buffoon to run the country.
I agree that the subject of Brexit has also influenced strongly the results. Personally, I'm a remainder but think the referendum result should have been honoured even though I think the campaign was littered with lies. Similarly the Tory campaign for the GE has also been littered with mistruths and avoiding scrutiny. Politics today seems to be more about populism than policies?
What a ****ing country.
And presumably you don't think that Corbyn is a racist or liar, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Because of his policies or because people have been swayed by the media opinions on his policies, especially tax evasion and making the most wealthy pay?
You really have fallen hook, line and sinker for all the crap pedalled by Momentum, Corbyn and Mcdonnell haven't you.
You really have fallen hook, line and sinker for all the crap pedalled by Momentum, Corbyn and Mcdonnell haven't you.
Or in your case the Daily Mail.
Corbyn has to resign. Talk of a time of quiet reflection is worrying. The hard left of the party need to be removed urgently.
Labour put up a good leader and there can be a massive turnaround by the next election. Another from the hard left and the party could be finished.
We are going to have 5 more years of austerity and cuts. Labour need to fight back now.
the other bob wilson
13-12-19, 09:00
I'll concede my opinion is more anecdotal than evidenced by statistics but I'll wager that it'll be the older age groups that have voted for a lying, racist buffoon to run the country.
I agree that the subject of Brexit has also influenced strongly the results. Personally, I'm a remainder but think the referendum result should have been honoured even though I think the campaign was littered with lies. Similarly the Tory campaign for the GE has also been littered with mistruths and avoiding scrutiny. Politics today seems to be more about populism than policies?
What a ****ing country.
I see Corbyn loyalists are blaming Brexit for the election outcome. I'd say they are right to do so, but what they are not comprehending is that it is their Brexit policy which has cost them. All the Conservatives did was increase their vote by around 1.5%, a far bigger contribution to the result was Labour's decline from 40% of the vote in 2017 to 32.2% this time around. I think Corbyn should go much sooner rather than later because his strategy (and the public perception is that it was his strategy) saw his party losing support among remainers as well as leavers.
What I failed to understand in 2016 and still don't understand now is that the difference makers in the Referendum were working class people in what were Labour strongholds. It seems to me that they voted Leave because of a "my life is shit" sentiment, but it baffles me why they would hold the EU and the main opposition party responsible for that, rather than the Government of this country in which the Conservative party had been a constant factor for six years at the time of the vote.
However, that's what they did and what they have done again, so I think those of us in England and Wales especially who want to get the Conservative party out have to try and find out why ex mining communities see the need to "get Brexit done" as a higher priority than getting rid of a party that has historically been despised in such areas.
Like you, I voted Remain in 2016, albeit reluctantly, but although I'm convinced that the 17.4 million voted for stacks of different versions of Brexit in the Referendum, the democracy being denied argument they came out with was, for me, a very hard one to counter, so I had made up my mind to vote Leave in the event of a second vote.
I'm extremely disappointed with the election result, but the truth is that my main motivation was to try and keep the Torys out and that was the reason I voted Labour rather than a desire to see them win - if I had been living in Scotland, I would definitely have voted SNP and, if Corbyn outstays his welcome in a bid to get more of the same in terms of the party leadership, then Plaid will start looking an increasingly attractive option for me.
life on mars
13-12-19, 09:02
Thankfully Anna McMorrin seemed to buck the trend and actually increased her majority.
I knew should she would win Anna is what I view a Labour MP should look and sound like .
Her voting numbers were actually down, she only increased her % win because of people voting for Lib Dem’s and the Brexit party.
The ,Conservative fellas numbers were up
She got 17 just fewer votes this time. The Tory vote didnt go up - it fell by almost 3000 with the Brexit party candidate just getting 1311. The Lib Dem candidate endorsed Anna McMorrin a few days ago, but I think it was too late to have a big impact.
Mo Ali was the only candidate not to turn up at last weeks hastings which didn't do him any favours.
The Lone Gunman
13-12-19, 09:03
The Conservative fellas numbers were up
In the 2017 election, the Conservatives got 21,907 votes in Cardiff North.
In the 2019 election, the Conservatives got 19,082 votes in Cardiff North.
In summary, the Conservative fella's numbers weren't up. On the contrary, they were down.
Or in your case the Daily Mail.
17.4 million Daily Mail readers in 2016 and similar today?
Learn from the catastrophic mistakes regarding your party
life on mars
13-12-19, 09:07
Corbyn has to resign. Talk of a time of quiet reflection is worrying. The hard left of the party need to be removed urgently.
Labour put up a good leader and there can be a massive turnaround by the next election. Another from the hard left and the party could be finished.
We are going to have 5 more years of austerity and cuts. Labour need to fight back now.
If Boris deploys that austerity tactic he knows he's done in the next election , as he stated he has borrowed Labour votes not on his popularity, but on the dislike of Corbynism and ignoring a democratic vote .
We await to see what happens ??
Bring on Yvette Cooper, pick a lady to lead , change your tact, you have my and many others votes back .
In the 2017 election, the Conservatives got 21,907 votes in Cardiff North.
In the 2019 election, the Conservatives got 19,082 votes in Cardiff North.
In summary, the Conservative fella's numbers weren't up. On the contrary, they were down.
He was never going going to pull the many old and well off in north Cardiff, if they’d had a more traditional Tory boy they prob would have flown it, as they have win it before.
If Boris deploys that austerity tactic he knows he's done in the next election , as he stated he has borrowed Labour votes not on his popularity, but on the dislike of Corbynism and ignoring a democratic vote .
We await to see what happens ??
Bring on Yvette Cooper, pick a lady to lead , change your tact, you have my and many others votes back .
The austerity will continue. If Corbyn is allowed time to reflect , blame brexit for this result and allow the unions and membership to elect someone else from the hard left then 5 years will turn to 10.
To blame brexit as well is pathetic. Under his watch Labour heartlands voted on mass to leave. The campaign to remain under him was pathetic.
This Election was always going to be about Brexit, Leave won the 1st Vote and they have won this general Election
I have spoken to Die hard Lib Dem voters, they still talk of Paddy ashdown as the greatest PM that never was, the choice around here is Lib dems or Tories, last time around i voted Lib Dems to try and keep the Tories out, most of these people voted Remain, but they are elderly and hated this Brexit fiasco, they think the county voted leave, so lets leave, democracy was more important to then, they voted for the Tories
The Lone Gunman
13-12-19, 09:15
He was never going going to pull the many old and well off in north Cardiff, if they’d had a more traditional Tory boy they prob would have flown it, as they have win it before.
They had a more traditional Tory boy last time out. He was soundly beaten. Anna has proved popular in Cardiff North. Plenty of people (including me) have voted for her this time around despite Corbyn. The fact that she's opposed him on several occasions has helped.
In the 2017 election, the Conservatives got 21,907 votes in Cardiff North.
In the 2019 election, the Conservatives got 19,082 votes in Cardiff North.
In summary, the Conservative fella's numbers weren't up. On the contrary, they were down.
My bad, I saw all the + signs on the other 4 parties and with only just getting up and no coffee down me, made a boo boo.
Labour % down though
What I failed to understand in 2016 and still don't understand now is that the difference makers in the Referendum were working class people in what were Labour strongholds. It seems to me that they voted Leave because of a "my life is shit" sentiment, but it baffles me why they would hold the EU and the main opposition party responsible for that, rather than the Government of this country in which the Conservative party had been a constant factor for six years at the time of the vote.
When people have had enough, they want a change, just like the US did, the status quo wasnt working for them, thats why they voted in Trump
Now I am not saying its right, but it appears to me that is the way it went
17.4 million Daily Mail readers in 2016 and similar today?
Learn from the catastrophic mistakes regarding your party
I wasnt referring to the referendum more the wind up ID account of DML on his Corbyn comments.
In fact I believe most of the hard left wanted to leave.
When people have had enough, they want a change, just like the US did, the status quo wasnt working for them, thats why they voted in Trump
Now I am not saying its right, but it appears to me that is the way it went
You are correct. My worry is Corbyn will hang on while a suitable candidate from his wing of the party is found and they convince themselves they can win after what will be 5 years of hardship.
That's utter shit. There's lots of support for Labour policies but the media and the establishment runs the country.
you've got your head up your arse if you believe that. Labour support has collapsed.
The UK is right leaning, it always has been. The best Labour have ever done was under Blair with centrist/centre left policies. Hard left policies in the UK just don't cut it.
I'm not. Blind policy tests keep showing that Labour policies are more popular than Tory policies. Most of the print media is owned by Tory donors. The Tories are the establishment.
What bits of this do you disagree with?
all of it. the polls don't lie.
No it doesn't, it proves it. Policies don't matter. If they were allowed to matter, different story.
you do the electorate a disservice bu suggesting that they aren't intelligent enough to form their own opinion. That's quite a conceited viewpoint you have there.
Maybe true, but are you saying that has got nothing to do with a 4 year media demolition campaign?
I think its more to do with his courting of terrorists, his lack of action regarding the rampant anti-semitism within his party and the hard left policies taken straight from the 1970s, which most people wish to steer clear of
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 09:32
Get corbyn and momentum out
If labour doesn't learn from this hammering then they are finished
In my opinion I think there is room for an anything but conservative party , a sort of rainbow coalition
But what can you do about people who are going to be shafted by the conservatives .......voting conservative ?
getting rid of corbyn is only the start
One of the leaders of momentum is on TV now , she's in denial
A Quiet Monkfish
13-12-19, 09:33
This Election was always going to be about Brexit, Leave won the 1st Vote and they have won this general Election
I have spoken to Die hard Lib Dem voters, they still talk of Paddy ashdown as the greatest PM that never was, the choice around here is Lib dems or Tories, last time around i voted Lib Dems to try and keep the Tories out, most of these people voted Remain, but they are elderly and hated this Brexit fiasco, they think the county voted leave, so lets leave, democracy was more important to then, they voted for the Tories
and there's me thinking that all those leave voters had been duped 3 yrs ago and had now been 'enlightened' to the errors of their ways.
Probably election result had a lot to do with a creepy old man handing out 'sweets' to the electorate every day for 12 weeks and expecting ordinary folk who have to budget monthly to believe him..
Blyth valley , former mining town has gone tory
Fecking disaster
They should be ashamed of themselves
the other bob wilson
13-12-19, 09:37
When people have had enough, they want a change, just like the US did, the status quo wasnt working for them, thats why they voted in Trump
Now I am not saying its right, but it appears to me that is the way it went
I understand that, but why is the EU and Labour considered the establishment and not the Government of this country?
I understand that, but why is the EU and Labour considered the establishment and not the Government of this country?
I'm inclined to say its the pro-Tory bias in our media
The idea that Eton educated, former Bullingdon Club member Boris Johnson isn't the establishment is laughable
A Quiet Monkfish
13-12-19, 09:43
I see Corbyn loyalists are blaming Brexit for the election outcome. I'd say they are right to do so, but what they are not comprehending is that it is their Brexit policy which has cost them. All the Conservatives did was increase their vote by around 1.5%, a far bigger contribution to the result was Labour's decline from 40% of the vote in 2017 to 32.2% this time around. I think Corbyn should go much sooner rather than later because his strategy (and the public perception is that it was his strategy) saw his party losing support among remainers as well as leavers.
What I failed to understand in 2016 and still don't understand now is that the difference makers in the Referendum were working class people in what were Labour strongholds. It seems to me that they voted Leave because of a "my life is shit" sentiment, but it baffles me why they would hold the EU and the main opposition party responsible for that, rather than the Government of this country in which the Conservative party had been a constant factor for six years at the time of the vote.
However, that's what they did and what they have done again, so I think those of us in England and Wales especially who want to get the Conservative party out have to try and find out why ex mining communities see the need to "get Brexit done" as a higher priority than getting rid of a party that has historically been despised in such areas.
Like you, I voted Remain in 2016, albeit reluctantly, but although I'm convinced that the 17.4 million voted for stacks of different versions of Brexit in the Referendum, the democracy being denied argument they came out with was, for me, a very hard one to counter, so I had made up my mind to vote Leave in the event of a second vote.
I'm extremely disappointed with the election result, but the truth is that my main motivation was to try and keep the Torys out and that was the reason I voted Labour rather than a desire to see them win - if I had been living in Scotland, I would definitely have voted SNP and, if Corbyn outstays his welcome in a bid to get more of the same in terms of the party leadership, then Plaid will start looking an increasingly attractive option for me.
Bl**dy hell. You want to get off those hills and come back to civilization..
Get corbyn and momentum out
If labour doesn't learn from this hammering then they are finished
In my opinion I think there is room for an anything but conservative party , a sort of rainbow coalition
But what can you do about people who are going to be shafted by the conservatives .......voting conservative ?
getting rid of corbyn is only the start
One of the leaders of momentum is on TV now , she's in denial
This. Couldnt agree more.
I cant watch the news. If this woman has retained her seat she should resign and allow someone like Caroline Flint who has lost her seat to stand in a by election.
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 09:48
and there's me thinking that all those leave voters had been duped 3 yrs ago and had now been 'enlightened' to the errors of their ways.
Probably election result had a lot to do with a creepy old man handing out 'sweets' to the electorate every day for 12 weeks and expecting ordinary folk who have to budget monthly to believe him..
Well there were a lot of factors in this crushing defeat but Corbyn's crazy manifesto didn't help in some of the key marginals
Brexit was a massive issue and corbyn would have saved some seats if he hadn't sat on the fence so much , the fact is , and I cant understand it is that in the very areas that were helped by European funding , people voted to leave
I am afraid they are going to be hit big time now a right wing tory government is in
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 10:20
Bl**dy hell. You want to get off those hills and come back to civilization..
Plaid cymru are a waste of space
Corbyn and his followers are in complete denial. If they appoint another with similar policies then they will struggle to gain power. Corbyn and his entire front bench need to go and be replaced by the decent Labour MPs on the back benches. If BREXIT goes wrong, as it might, then there could be a further election sooner than many think in which case Labour needs to reposition itself by coming forward with some more centralist policies and ditching the hard left which the public will never support.
Well there were a lot of factors in this crushing defeat but Corbyn's crazy manifesto didn't help in some of the key marginals
Brexit was a massive issue and corbyn would have saved some seats if he hadn't sat on the fence so much , the fact is , and I cant understand it is that in the very areas that were helped by European funding , people voted to leave
I am afraid they are going to be hit big time now a right wing tory government is in
Perhaps voters don't react well to the EU and Labour trying to bribe them by throwing money at them and saw straight through it ? Contrary to popular belief, most voters are not stupid and would never support any party trying to bankrupt the Country, no matter how much they were gaining out of it personally.
Or in your case the Daily Mail.
Maybe DML stands for Daily Mail Lemming?
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 10:38
Corbyn and his followers are in complete denial. If they appoint another with similar policies then they will struggle to gain power. Corbyn and his entire front bench need to go and be replaced by the decent Labour MPs on the back benches. If BREXIT goes wrong, as it might, then there could be a further election sooner than many think in which case Labour needs to reposition itself by coming forward with some more centralist policies and ditching the hard left which the public will never support.
He and his mob have to take the blame for much of this disaster
I would have liked that wakefield female mp to lead the party but she lost her seat
the other bob wilson
13-12-19, 10:41
Bl**dy hell. You want to get off those hills and come back to civilization..
I take it you mean that I would be wrong to desert Labour and Corbyn :xmashehe:?
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 10:41
Corbyn and his followers are in complete denial. If they appoint another with similar policies then they will struggle to gain power. Corbyn and his entire front bench need to go and be replaced by the decent Labour MPs on the back benches. If BREXIT goes wrong, as it might, then there could be a further election sooner than many think in which case Labour needs to reposition itself by coming forward with some more centralist policies and ditching the hard left which the public will never support.
Perhaps voters don't react well to the EU and Labour trying to bribe them by throwing money at them and saw straight through it ? Contrary to popular belief, most voters are not stupid and would never support any party trying to bankrupt the Country, no matter how much they were gaining out of it personally.
The joy of government is that the people are stupid
That evil man Hitler said that and sadly there is more than a grain of truth in it
He and his mob have to take the blame for much of this disaster
I would have liked that wakefield female mp to lead the party but she lost her seat
Mary Creagh would have been a good choice. There are many good female MPs in the Labour Party that have been ostracised by the hard left.
the other bob wilson
13-12-19, 10:45
The joy of government is that the people are stupid
That evil man Hitler said that and sadly there is more than a grain of truth in it
Tell me, why do you think ex miners and families of ex miners decided to vote Conservative this time? Just saying such people are stupid is not going to get any of the opposition parties anywhere.
Organ Morgan.
13-12-19, 10:45
The joy of government is that the people are stupid
That evil man Hitler said that and sadly there is more than a grain of truth in it
Churchill said it best.
https://www.azquotes.com/vangogh-image-quotes/5/62/Quotation-Winston-Churchill-The-best-argument-against-democracy-is-a-five-minute-conversation-5-62-90.jpg
cyril evans awaydays
13-12-19, 11:14
Churchill said it best.
https://www.azquotes.com/vangogh-image-quotes/5/62/Quotation-Winston-Churchill-The-best-argument-against-democracy-is-a-five-minute-conversation-5-62-90.jpg
Only it was one of many quotes attributed to him that there is no evidence he ever uttered!
StraightOuttaCanton
13-12-19, 11:17
Churchill said it best.
https://www.azquotes.com/vangogh-image-quotes/5/62/Quotation-Winston-Churchill-The-best-argument-against-democracy-is-a-five-minute-conversation-5-62-90.jpg
Correct... Lots of average voters in this thread. Close to 100% I’d say.
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 11:23
Tell me, why do you think ex miners and families of ex miners decided to vote Conservative this time? Just saying such people are stupid is not going to get any of the opposition parties anywhere.
I am afraid that's a huge part of the problem , people who live in the former heavy industrialised areas of the UK , areas that got a lot of aid from Europe in the form of infrastructure , social projects , grants to attract industry from overseas from the European social fund .......vote to leave Europe .......and then vote Tory ......who have savaged the very services they rely on
If they are not stupid then there must be another word for it
But I am afraid corbyn and his gang must take the blame for the scale of this defeat
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
13-12-19, 11:32
Populism is about offering the people everything for free.
A lot of young people and gullible believed the false promises of Corbyn.
The vast majority can see that this country would be bankrupt in no time and inflation would have risen to above 15% within 2 years.
This along with reneging on the Brexit referendum.
Along with the vile creatures that are Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell.
Labour have had their worst results since the 1930's in spite of:
Johnson
9 years of mainly necessary austerity
Biased TV coverage in favour Labour and remain
Apparently Conservatives and Brexiteers being uncaring and as Steve Coogan said, ignorant and ill informed.
Used to like Coogan, but as his alter ego would say, we had the last laugh. Take your foot out of your mouth and shove it up your backside Steve 🤣
This morning I am so very proud of my Britain, our wonderful Britain 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
I can only assume your last sentence is a wind-up. This is the 2nd daftest country in the western world, hung up on a fairytale hierarchy and generally keen to maintain the status quo. Labour have their faults but they also have to jump through more and loftier hoops than the Tories, who have a leader who is vague and shambling and hides from trouble. I'm not sure why that's something to be proud of, but you carry on if it makes you feel better (which is what national pride is for anyway).
The media and establishment don't vote.
They didn't need to. They're the puppet masters and the public are on strings.
Anybody who voted for a party other than Labour yesterday have effectively signed the death warrants of hundreds of thousands of people over the next five years.
I understand that, but why is the EU and Labour considered the establishment and not the Government of this country?
I think Corbyn represented too much loony left with policies that too many people knew would be nice but were not realistically something this country could afford
Hence why the blind tests on policies go well for labour... but they fail to take into account people ‘know’ we cant afford them
I don’t believe this ‘people wanted change’ like trump stuff. I don’t think there’s anything like that in this election
They didn't need to. They're the puppet masters and the public are on strings.
Anybody who voted for a party other than Labour yesterday have effectively signed the death warrants of hundreds of thousands of people over the next five years.
As opposed to voting labour and signing the death warrant for the whole country?
Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available
Tell me, why do you think ex miners and families of ex miners decided to vote Conservative this time? Just saying such people are stupid is not going to get any of the opposition parties anywhere.
Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available
As opposed to voting labour and signing the death warrant for the whole country?
What have we got in this country?
A health service that's failing more and more every year, abject poverty, ridiculously inflated property prices, a poor road and rail network and underfunded schools - That's what we've got.
There is plenty of money around but it's hidden from the public.
Jeremy Corbyn has never said that people shouldn't be rich, but has asked that they contribute fairly and not hide their money away in tax havens.
the other bob wilson
13-12-19, 12:08
Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available
That sounds like you're agreeing with me then to an extent. What needs to be kept track of is that significant numbers of working class voters who would have been thought of as dyed in the wool Labour chose to vote Leave in 2016 at a time when Corbyn had been leader for less than a year and antiSemitism was not the issue it became - I don't see that those subjects were that relevant then.
Two lessons the political strategists will take into the 2024 elections: the truth is secondary to slogans & you can avoid mainstream media interviews without cost.
(https://twitter.com/JamieJBartlett/status/1205434069544243202)
The reforms we urgently need to protect our democracy now have no chance of happening. Not in UK. Not in US.
(Linked to story showing 88% of Tory ads, and 0% of Labour ads, are misleading - https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1205443787906048000)
We will ensure that judicial review is available to protect the rights of the individuals against an overbearing state, while ensuring that it is not abused to conduct politics by another means or to create needless delays.
(Page 48 of Tory Manifesto, written after our Prime Minister was found to have lied to the Queen and unlawfully shut down parliament - https://www.indy100.com/article/page-48-tory-manifesto-general-election-judiciary-courts-constitution-9234351).
Huge numbers in England and Wales voted for what? Their manifesto is short, they have avoided interviews where their opinions get scrutinized, but it seems that despite massive domestic issues the Conservatives are promising little change while on an international level they're going to rip apart our existing structure which only a tiny minority of extremists were talking about before 2015. I get that for some people the EU was restrictive or interfering but for many it was a safety net and that has now been wiped away on the encouragement of those aforementioned extremists who weren't really adversely impacted by it beforehand.... I just hope they're replacing that safety net for the vulnerable with something better, and yet they're only talking about rolling back the state further so I have my doubts.
There are a number of reasons not to vote for this edition of Labour, I get that, but we're now far more likely to be lied to by politicians so our future decisions are more misinformed and the majority voted for that. On a political level, that I don't get.
On a human level, the constituency where Grenfell stood (you know, the one where local authority gave back money to the wealthiest rather than spend their budget on protecting poor people in a tower block who had made several complaints about lack of safety, then the Tory party made it into a joke and heckled Corbyn for wearing a ribbon to commemorate it.) and the constituency represented by Alun Cairns (you know, the one where he resigned from his government position a few months ago because he lied about knowing and refused to apologise for an aid who sabotaged a rape trial) both voted for the Conservative party. That I don't get.
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 12:11
Taking away the fact corbyn had a toxic image , fuelled by the right wing press and had an awful team behind him , the public will get what the public wants .......a race to the bottom and a return to the days of thatcher who Boris adored
Sadly there is a massive sting in the tale ........lack of housing , poor public services and a crumbling NHS
Don't say we didn't warn you
What have we got in this country?
A health service that's failing more and more every year, abject poverty, ridiculously inflated property prices, a poor road and rail network and underfunded schools - That's what we've got.
There is plenty of money around but it's hidden from the public.
Jeremy Corbyn has never said that people shouldn't be rich, but has asked that they contribute fairly and not hide their money away in tax havens.
Who defines fair? That’s pretty naive view of the world. One persons fair is another persons far left / right policy.
If the NHS is failing (it has been for ALL of my 50+ years)... then it cant just be about more money. If it was would you support all drink, smoking, drug and fat related diseases being only treated based on payments by the individuals??? I would not but at the same time why should I pay more tax for other peoples choices? This is the problem - people who make these poor choices cant have everything for free and expect ‘those who earn more’ to pay for it. That’s not social care.
Underfunded schools and roads? Highly funded, poorly delivered
Tax havens? Yep stop them. They would not be needed if we simply set a limit on the MAX tax paid
Gofer Blue
13-12-19, 12:15
Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available
It's more than "generational" - do we not need to ask ourselves who are the working class any more? The traditional image of the slightly down trodden looking man in a dai cap and dungarees is massively outdated.
As one of the "older people" who voted for Brexit (possibly stupid or poorly educated but having a first degree and a PhD), can I say that I voted that way not because of rules from Europe or immigrants ruining the country but because of the colossal expense of running the huge bureaucratic and unaccountable monster that the EU has become. Simple as that.
That sounds like you're agreeing with me then to an extent. What needs to be kept track of is that significant numbers of working class voters who would have been thought of as dyed in the wool Labour chose to vote Leave in 2016 at a time when Corbyn had been leader for less than a year and antiSemitism was not the issue it became - I don't see that those subjects were that relevant then.
Yes, traditional labour voters voted leave. The current Labour Party is run by middle class from London boroughs, with no interest in traditional working class areas. Labour Party decisions are made by people from a few seats in London, not labour heartland. London voted to remain; those MP’s kept their seats... very socialist of them... that’s what people ignore the labour people running the party all kept their seats and their voters liked the remain message
The next labour leader will probably be a woman’s from the north to try and win those votes; will try to never mention brexit and will still push the same policies as the liberals have also shown there are no votes in the middle ground
It's more than "generational" - do we not need to ask ourselves who are the working class any more? The traditional image of the slightly down trodden looking man in a dai cap and dungarees is massively outdated.
As one of the "older people" who voted for Brexit (possibly stupid or poorly educated but having a first degree and a PhD), can I say that I voted that way not because of rules from Europe or immigrants ruining the country but because of the colossal expense of running the huge bureaucratic and unaccountable monster that the EU has become. Simple as that.
Except running that huge monster.... keeps the markets we use open; with out it we have......
What have we got in this country?
A health service that's failing more and more every year, abject poverty, ridiculously inflated property prices, a poor road and rail network and underfunded schools - That's what we've got.
There is plenty of money around but it's hidden from the public.
Jeremy Corbyn has never said that people shouldn't be rich, but has asked that they contribute fairly and not hide their money away in tax havens.
We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....
Gofer Blue
13-12-19, 12:30
Except running that huge monster.... keeps the markets we use open; with out it we have......
I am old enough to remember the Common Market and that did exactly that!
Gofer Blue
13-12-19, 12:31
We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....
Thinly veiled... "we have too many old people for starters" perhaps?
Organ Morgan.
13-12-19, 12:36
We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....
It's an extra nine million UK residents since 2001 (58 million to 67 million).
But why are you moaning? If you phone you doctor's surgery today for an appointment they'll probably have a space available at around Easter time.
We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....
We now have the lowest share of the worlds population we have had in modern times..... the rate of increase is the same now as it was for most of the past 50 years. There was a blip centered around 2010. That’s gone. Population growth is now similar to what it has been for last 50years.
the other bob wilson
13-12-19, 12:48
Yes, traditional labour voters voted leave. The current Labour Party is run by middle class from London boroughs, with no interest in traditional working class areas. Labour Party decisions are made by people from a few seats in London, not labour heartland. London voted to remain; those MP’s kept their seats... very socialist of them... that’s what people ignore the labour people running the party all kept their seats and their voters liked the remain message
The next labour leader will probably be a woman’s from the north to try and win those votes; will try to never mention brexit and will still push the same policies as the liberals have also shown there are no votes in the middle ground
I broadly agree with your first paragraph and I think you might well be right about a woman leader.
I think the reasons for the result are pretty obvious - people sick of Brexit and wanting to move on, and Labour having an unelectable leader. One thing I will never understand though is people like this woman in this article about Bolsover, where Dennis Skinner's lost his seat:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Karen Hepworth, 62, who runs a crafts stall in Bolsover, would not say how she had voted but blamed Jeremy Corbyn for the result.
"Everyone says the same thing: they don't like him and they're fed up with Brexit.
"We have absolutely nothing - it's disgraceful.
"If we lived down south, we'd not have this problem but they don't spend money here."
How can she blame Labour and Corbyn for the fact that no money is spent in Bolsover when the Tories have been in power for a decade?
I don't understand how people can be angry about the lack of investment in their communities and that translates into resentment of the party that's been in opposition, not the one in power. "The Tories don't spend any money on us so there's no way I'm voting Labour"
Maybe this is generation too; many people voting this time have no connection too the miners in their families besides some brass lamps in their grandparents house. Plus I think like brexit many older people wanted out of Europe as they incorrectly think rules from Europe and immigrants ruin the country. Is that stupid to think that or just poor education? Generally its down to the quality of information available
This is a golden example of why Labour just got hammered in the polls - Labour leaders, supporters and Momentum still believe that anyone who voted for Brexit or Conservatives must be stupid or ill educated. They have obviously learnt nothing from what has happened.
No, but they control the thoughts of so many.
If that is what you choose to believe.
thought control is the thing of old sci fi movies (I thought).
Wales-Bales
13-12-19, 13:08
Except running that huge monster.... keeps the markets we use open; with out it we have......
... the entire world?
Wales-Bales
13-12-19, 13:13
If that is what you choose to believe.
thought control is the thing of old sci fi movies (I thought).
It's happening whether you know it's happing or not :-)
This old clip is decades old, and the techniques in use today have undertaken a quantum leap since then. The internet is every disinformation scientists wet dream!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLcpcytUnWU the
lisvaneblue
13-12-19, 13:26
What have we got in this country?
A health service that's failing more and more every year, abject poverty, ridiculously inflated property prices, a poor road and rail network and underfunded schools - That's what we've got.
There is plenty of money around but it's hidden from the public.
Jeremy Corbyn has never said that people shouldn't be rich, but has asked that they contribute fairly and not hide their money away in tax havens.
I don't disagree with what you say about our services, but most of the issues mentioned are the responsibility of Welsh Assembly Government, not Westminster
life on mars
13-12-19, 13:45
I think the other issue is a lot of folk in the country see the labour as a left London elite and are sooo out of touch ,and Mr Johnosn tapped into that well and Labour spectacular failed , well before JC in 2010 Labour had 41 seats in Scotland :facepalm:
Tax havens? Yep stop them. They would not be needed if we simply set a limit on the MAX tax paid
Bullshit. You obviously have no idea how greedy the super-rich are.
This is a golden example of why Labour just got hammered in the polls - Labour leaders, supporters and Momentum still believe that anyone who voted for Brexit or Conservatives must be stupid or ill educated. They have obviously learnt nothing from what has happened.
There were certainly remainers who were arrogant in their vote in the initial referendum and aftermath but this arrogance was weaponised by the Tory party and Vote Leave who had done their best to promote ignorance through their misinformation campaign. I can honestly say that my understanding of the EU now is limited but it's so much more than was at the time of the initial referendum, and considering the bad information politician and pundits have come out with before and since I reckon, if being honest, most would say the same. It doesn't demonstrate ignorance to know you're not well informed, it demonstrates intelligence and maturity.
Wouldn't it negligent for people to i) not meet with leave voters and ask why they did it and ii) if they are best supported by staying in the EU to openly say that and pull in that direction? We instead have a government telling us not to believe in experts and predictions done by their own civil service and instead believe in Boris saying "well I tell you different." By the end, Arlene Foster (paid billions by the Tory party) said she didn't trust Boris!
Brexit being sorted by this vote is in itself misleading. We have a withdrawal agreement (as we would have if Boris etc. had voted with Theresa May) but Brexit isn't finished until we have a trade agreement with the EU. Brexit fatigue may make that a more rapid process but how many good decisions are made when fatigued and frustrated?
I mean, it's all done now, but ultimately we now have a government who changed their twitter handle to make it look like a fact-checking website (arguing CCHQ was understood enough that it wouldn't mislead people, suggesting the press would have adapted the website to encourage distrust in the media challenging them) are willing to create a fake news story regarding an aid getting hit to distract from a bad news story for our Prime Minister, have 88% of their social media ads be classed as misleading (compared to 0% of Labours)....we have a government who have promoted ignorance and won votes by telling voters the other side consider them stupid. Labour not responding well enough to that is not the biggest issue we have.
It's an extra nine million UK residents since 2001 (58 million to 67 million).
But why are you moaning? If you phone you doctor's surgery today for an appointment they'll probably have a space available at around Easter time.
Ah yes the great nhs we only moan about apart from election time when we all love it.....it’s the new way to see your gp don’t you know? You wait a month in pain or worry, by the time the app comes around it’s either gone away or your phucked....:xmashehe:
Anyone want to guess how long until we get the report looking at Russian interference in our political system?
https://twitter.com/ItsMattCurtis/status/1205405663788175362
Stanley Johnson talking about women wearing burqas flying planes.....how did the conversation go there??
We have too many people for starters....when your kids can’t get in a school half a mile away you know it’s phucked. Is it an extra 10 million since Blair let anyone in? We moan about traffic, hospital waiting and getting a doctors appointment though.....
No - it is not 10 million. It is under half of that since 1997.
A Quiet Monkfish
13-12-19, 16:31
They didn't need to. They're the puppet masters and the public are on strings.
Anybody who voted for a party other than Labour yesterday have effectively signed the death warrants of hundreds of thousands of people over the next five years.
maybe millions. Even billions. Perhaps the whole universe..
Robin Friday's Ghost
13-12-19, 16:46
I haven't really seen any sign of it on social media today but it might be worth Labour looking at itself rather than looking for reasons for its defeat elsewhere. Yes of course the media is biased against Labour. It always has been. I remember hearing Jimmy Reid the shipbuilding unionist speaking in the 80s where he was ridiculing the left who complained that they'd have more success if it wasn't for the capitalist press. He compared it to saying your horse might win the Grand National if it wasn't for the fences.
Attlee, Wilson, Blair managed it. Maybe there is a reason why this Labour Party with the policies it adopted didn't which lies within? All I've seen today is more name-calling and demonising of the people who the party was trying to get onside before the election and will need to win over if they are ever to get elected again.
A Quiet Monkfish
13-12-19, 16:52
Bullshit. You obviously have no idea how greedy the super-rich are.
The highest earning 1% in the UK pay an estimated 28% of all income tax
You'd like them to pay a bit more, no doubt..
The Lone Gunman
13-12-19, 16:58
This is a golden example of why Labour just got hammered in the polls - Labour leaders, supporters and Momentum still believe that anyone who voted for Brexit or Conservatives must be stupid or ill educated.
So you reckon there were no Labour leaders, supporters or Momentum officials who voted for Brexit?
Give your head a wobble, you idiot.
The question is why have traditional labour voters abandoned Labour? It has to be Brexit to a large degree but there's another factor involved and that's the fact that this country hasn't had a real left wing alternative in decades, Labour may have had three terms with Blair and Brown at the helm but their policies were pro business and about deregulation, there wasn't much in it for the working classes, infact. we've witnessed the birth of the underclasses.
New Labour have contributed to this mess, you expect the Tories to attack the poor but not Labour. Alot of working class people in former industrial heartlands have had enough, Politicians do little for their communities, jobs were never replaced, manufacturing and industry gone and not much of a future for the young. They've been badly let down by politicians so what are they to do? When the opportunity came along to lodge a protest thet took that opportunity by voting leave, a desperate act, a solitary punch thrown towards the decision makers in this country who have allowed these people and their once proud communities to rot.
The sad thing is that whatever people think of Corbyn, his policies were designed to help these very people, they were genuine and honest , but to late for the majority who seem to think that leaving the club will bring them more opportunity and a chance to progress. They are wrong and will sadly be proved wrong. Johnson and his business cronies want out so desperately in order to cut working conditions and get rid of legislation that is in place to protect the poorest and most vulnerable, things wont improve for working class people, they're going to get a whole lot worse.
Whenever the bully, gobshite, populist, blowhard is given a platform and endorsed by the many it usually means that there are other issues at hand that haven't been dealt with. massive underlining problems that go back decades,, well, this is what has happened and this is what we've got because of the neglect and failure to help the poorest by both administrations. These people aren't stupid, uneducated and gullible, just desperate. When desperation kicks in the bully with the gob can sometimes be seen as the only option.
cyril evans awaydays
13-12-19, 17:03
The highest earning 1% in the UK pay an estimated 28% of all income tax
You'd like them to pay a bit more, no doubt..
Is that 1% all tax revenues (income, NI, vat, corporation, capital gains etc)? Or does it not factor in the Panama Paper boys hoovering up their wealth into secretive offshore accounts? I'd like those bastards to pay a bit more... what about you?
A Quiet Monkfish
13-12-19, 17:09
Is that 1% all tax revenues (income, NI, vat, corporation, capital gains etc)? Or does it not factor in the Panama Paper boys hoovering up their wealth into secretive offshore accounts? I'd like those bastards to pay a bit more... what about you?
It's income tax. The figures are from an independent, non-political organization. You could probably tell them all to F off to somewhere else and pay their £50 billion or so to another nation state..
A Quiet Monkfish
13-12-19, 17:11
So you reckon there were no Labour leaders, supporters or Momentum officials who voted for Brexit?
Give your head a wobble, you idiot.
Rude little man. You're frustrated because you don't understand the point being made..
So you reckon there were no Labour leaders, supporters or Momentum officials who voted for Brexit?
Give your head a wobble, you idiot.
He's on some good medication, i'll give him that. The real left have no time for the EU, they see it as neo liberal and pro business. Johnson wants out because he and his chums are to the right of the EU, it's got ****all to do with honouring the referendum.
the other bob wilson
13-12-19, 17:28
I haven't really seen any sign of it on social media today but it might be worth Labour looking at itself rather than looking for reasons for its defeat elsewhere. Yes of course the media is biased against Labour. It always has been. I remember hearing Jimmy Reid the shipbuilding unionist speaking in the 80s where he was ridiculing the left who complained that they'd have more success if it wasn't for the capitalist press. He compared it to saying your horse might win the Grand National if it wasn't for the fences.
Attlee, Wilson, Blair managed it. Maybe there is a reason why this Labour Party with the policies it adopted didn't which lies within? All I've seen today is more name-calling and demonising of the people who the party was trying to get onside before the election and will need to win over if they are ever to get elected again.
I think Labour have got to prove in the coming years that they are more than just an inward looking sect. Their boast of having the biggest membership of any political party in Europe means nothing as far as electorial success is concerned, but I fear it could ensure that we see them resorting more to the name calling and demonsing you talk about and in that direction lies oblivion as far as being a party which could form a Government is concerned.
It's income tax. The figures are from an independent, non-political organization. You could probably tell them all to F off to somewhere else and pay their £50 billion or so to another nation state..
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/13/richest-britain-income-tax-revenues-institute-fiscal-studies
the other bob wilson
13-12-19, 17:34
The question is why have traditional labour voters abandoned Labour? It has to be Brexit to a large degree but there's another factor involved and that's the fact that this country hasn't had a real left wing alternative in decades, Labour may have had three terms with Blair and Brown at the helm but their policies were pro business and about deregulation, there wasn't much in it for the working classes, infact. we've witnessed the birth of the underclasses.
New Labour have contributed to this mess, you expect the Tories to attack the poor but not Labour. Alot of working class people in former industrial heartlands have had enough, Politicians do little for their communities, jobs were never replaced, manufacturing and industry gone and not much of a future for the young. They've been badly let down by politicians so what are they to do? When the opportunity came along to lodge a protest thet took that opportunity by voting leave, a desperate act, a solitary punch thrown towards the decision makers in this country who have allowed these people and their once proud communities to rot.
The sad thing is that whatever people think of Corbyn, his policies were designed to help these very people, they were genuine and honest , but to late for the majority who seem to think that leaving the club will bring them more opportunity and a chance to progress. They are wrong and will sadly be proved wrong. Johnson and his business cronies want out so desperately in order to cut working conditions and get rid of legislation that is in place to protect the poorest and most vulnerable, things wont improve for working class people, they're going to get a whole lot worse.
Whenever the bully, gobshite, populist, blowhard is given a platform and endorsed by the many it usually means that there are other issues at hand that haven't been dealt with. massive underlining problems that go back decades,, well, this is what has happened and this is what we've got because of the neglect and failure to help the poorest by both administrations. These people aren't stupid, uneducated and gullible, just desperate. When desperation kicks in the bully with the gob can sometimes be seen as the only option.
There's been a lot of talk about One Nation Conservatism today from the winning party and it'll be interesting to see whether there are changes to the Cabinet in the coming days, because the last thing I'd expect from the one that went into the election is One Nation Conservatism.
A Quiet Monkfish
13-12-19, 17:46
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/13/richest-britain-income-tax-revenues-institute-fiscal-studies
More like £60 billion then..
Taking away the fact corbyn had a toxic image , fuelled by the right wing press and had an awful team behind him , the public will get what the public wants .......a race to the bottom and a return to the days of thatcher who Boris adored
Sadly there is a massive sting in the tale ........lack of housing , poor public services and a crumbling NHS
Don't say we didn't warn you
What I don’t want to hear is those that voted Tory start moaning in the years that follow. I have a feeling many are going to be disappointed and it will serve them right.
I think Labour have got to prove in the coming years that they are more than just an inward looking sect. Their boast of having the biggest membership of any political party in Europe means nothing as far as electorial success is concerned, but I fear it could ensure that we see them resorting more to the name calling and demonsing you talk about and in that direction lies oblivion as far as being a party which could form a Government is concerned.
Unfortunately this was an election between a buffoon and a Marxist lefty that no one trusted.
If labour want to make a comeback they will need to drop these politicians of the 60’s and 70’s along with Len McCluskey and get someone more like Blair. Labour need the middle ground and leftist politics will never get them
Clinton Baptiste
13-12-19, 18:37
What I don’t want to hear is those that voted Tory start moaning in the years that follow. I have a feeling many are going to be disappointed and it will serve them right.
They'll have to go a long way to moan as much as you ****ing have over the years on this messagboard
Just perhaps it would have better to let Johnson have his deal of a few months ago, he was weak then and could have been controlled , he's now in Pl ace for 5 years with a such a majority with that he can get anything through the House even with a bit of dissent, I was genuinely surprised to wake up this morning to the news, with the choice of candidates on offer wasn't really bothered who won, that said having a tory win with such a commanding majority is not something I would have wanted but not having voted, apparently I got what I deserved. I note that he still hasn't resigned as yet and taken his crew with him, if he's allowed any influence over the next leader then I'm certain I'll not see another Labour Pm, I'm sure BJ will be found out very soon by his new supporters but will Labour continue with a radical left which has just been given one massive FO tablet and blow it again, or will they modernise to an electable left leaning party.
Just perhaps it would have better to let Johnson have his deal of a few months ago, he was weak then and could have been controlled , he's now in Pl ace for 5 years with a such a majority with that he can get anything through the House even with a bit of dissent, I was genuinely surprised to wake up this morning to the news, with the choice of candidates on offer wasn't really bothered who won, that said having a tory win with such a commanding majority is not something I would have wanted but not having voted, apparently I got what I deserved. I note that he still hasn't resigned as yet and taken his crew with him, if he's allowed any influence over the next leader then I'm certain I'll not see another Labour Pm, I'm sure BJ will be found out very soon by his new supporters but will Labour continue with a radical left which has just been given one massive FO tablet and blow it again, or will they modernise to an electable left leaning party.
They did "let" him have his deal. He withdrew it.
Just perhaps it would have better to let Johnson have his deal of a few months ago, he was weak then and could have been controlled , he's now in Pl ace for 5 years with a such a majority with that he can get anything through the House even with a bit of dissent, I was genuinely surprised to wake up this morning to the news, with the choice of candidates on offer wasn't really bothered who won, that said having a tory win with such a commanding majority is not something I would have wanted but not having voted, apparently I got what I deserved. I note that he still hasn't resigned as yet and taken his crew with him, if he's allowed any influence over the next leader then I'm certain I'll not see another Labour Pm, I'm sure BJ will be found out very soon by his new supporters but will Labour continue with a radical left which has just been given one massive FO tablet and blow it again, or will they modernise to an electable left leaning party.
1. Didn't Johnson's Brexit Deal (aka Theresa May's deal with an Irish Sea border) get passed by MPs in October. They wanted time to deal with it properly (so end January not end October deadline) but it was Johnson (who voted against Brexit twice) who pulled the plug!
2. The 'radical left' leader of the Labour Party took them to 41% (against Tory 43%) of the vote with a similar, popular, manifesto in 2017. True there have been two and a half years more of concerted attacks from the media and the other side in the Labour civil war which has caused him more damage, but the real difference is the Brexit stance. Labour did not have a 'get off the fence' option and it killed them. Corbyn was also less effective and less of a surprise in the campaign this time around - but that cannot explain the scale of the loss of leave voting heartland seats.
3. I hope Corbyn resigns the leadership sooner rather than later, but he is right to tie the timing in to a new leadership election process - and that should be down to the Labour party to decide, not Laura Kuenssberg or the Mail Online. But it should be done as quickly as possible (as should an internal review of why they failed so badly - especially as McDonnell and others really expected a repeat of 2017 in the final days).
1. Didn't Johnson's Brexit Deal (aka Theresa May's deal with an Irish Sea border) get passed by MPs in October. They wanted time to deal with it properly (so end January not end October deadline) but it was Johnson (who voted against Brexit twice) who pulled the plug!
2. The 'radical left' leader of the Labour Party took them to 41% (against Tory 43%) of the vote with a similar, popular, manifesto in 2017. True there have been two and a half years more of concerted attacks from the media and the other side in the Labour civil war which has caused him more damage, but the real difference is the Brexit stance. Labour did not have a 'get off the fence' option and it killed them. Corbyn was also less effective and less of a surprise in the campaign this time around - but that cannot explain the scale of the loss of leave voting heartland seats.
3. I hope Corbyn resigns the leadership sooner rather than later, but he is right to tie the timing in to a new leadership election process - and that should be down to the Labour party to decide, not Laura Kuenssberg or the Mail Online. But it should be done as quickly as possible (as should an internal review of why they failed so badly - especially as McDonnell and others really expected a repeat of 2017 in the final days).
Jon, when May called the election in 2017 she wrongly took advice that she was in a fairly strong position, which was totally untrue.
Also since then the public perception is that a Cornyn has continually frustrated the leave vote and then taken any of the Tory pledges, only to increase the funding promises beyond reasonable limits. Without Torres saying much more Corbyn lost his credibility.
The country needs a strong Labour Party to be successful but far left thinking is now alienating them more and more
[QUOTE=jon1959;5028911]1. Didn't Johnson's Brexit Deal (aka Theresa May's deal with an Irish Sea border) get passed by MPs in October. They wanted time to deal with it properly (so end January not end October deadline) but it was Johnson (who voted against Brexit twice) who pulled the plug!
2. The 'radical left' leader of the Labour Party took them to 41% (against Tory 43%) of the vote with a similar, popular, manifesto in 2017. True there have been two and a half years more of concerted attacks from the media and the other side in the Labour civil war which has caused him more damage, but the real difference is the Brexit stance. Labour did not have a 'get off the fence' option and it killed them. Corbyn was also less effective and less of a surprise in the campaign this time around - but that cannot explain the scale of the loss of leave voting heartland seats.
3. I hope Corbyn resigns the leadership sooner rather than later, but he is right to tie the timing in to a new leadership election process - and that should be down to the Labour party to decide, not Laura Kuenssberg or the Mail Online. But it should be done as quickly as possible (as should an internal review of why they failed so badly - especially as McDonnell and others really expected a repeat of 2017 in the final days).[/QUOTE
Jon, I thought he got turned over about 6 times on various votes in the house after his election regarding brexit stuff? I realise you are eyes on with the political stuff and your knowledge of all this will be spot on.
However, the country spoke last night, Labour has to listen rather quickly or suffer again, Corbyn is toxic, he needs to go immediately IMO, the Liberal lady has accepted her failure ASAP
jackrabbit
13-12-19, 20:00
Boris did the Labour Party a huge favour last night. Now at last we might see the Marxist cancer of Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne and Jon Lansman of Momentum (in this video) expelled from the party and the restoration of decent electable party members like Alan Johnson, Liz Kendall, Stella Creasy and other decent moderate traditional Labourites. I would like to add, Caroline Flint but she unfortunately lost her seat - the only Labour casualty that I regretted last night. I've been saying for years that the great British public would never vote for a communist, and it's no longer a matter of opinion - Corbyn was the Trotskyite disaster I expected him to be. Congratulations to the great British public! Not just Corbyn and Corbynites, also the names of the insufferable Jo Swinson, Chukka Umunna, Dominic Grieve and David Gauke consigned to the dustbin of history. Superb!
Click on the link below the picture to view the video:
Corbyn was a disaster on the doorstep... everyone knew he couldn't lead the working class out of a paper bag'.
Alan Johnson says he wants the 'little cult'
@PeoplesMomentum
'out of the party' and to 'go back to your student politics' #ITVElection2019
https://itv.com/news/2019-12-12/election-2019-live-the-results-itv-news/…
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 20:07
Corbyn and his crew have got to go , he had some good ideas but he was cannon fodder for the Tory press and he was a very poor leader , if we had a more electable leader and a decent manifesto we could have had a hung parliament
That together with voter ignorance .......let's not defend it .......gave us a right hiding
I am a lefty but far left manifestos thrown in with a poor leader , infighting and brexit was never going to do the business
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 20:10
Boris did the Labour Party a huge favour last night. Now at last we might see the Marxist cancer of Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne and Jon Lansman of Momentum (in this video) expelled from the party and the restoration of decent electable party members like Alan Johnson, Liz Kendall, Stella Creasy and other decent moderate traditional Labourites. I would like to add, Caroline Flint but she unfortunately lost her seat - the only Labour casualty that I regretted last night. I've been saying for years that the great British public would never vote for a communist, and it's no longer a matter of opinion - Corbyn was the Trotskyite disaster I expected him to be. Congratulations to the great British public! Not just Corbyn and Corbynites, also the names of the insufferable Jo Swinson, Chukka Umunna, Dominic Grieve and David Gauke consigned to the dustbin of history. Superb!
Click on the link below the picture to view the video:
Corbyn was a disaster on the doorstep... everyone knew he couldn't lead the working class out of a paper bag'.
Alan Johnson says he wants the 'little cult'
@PeoplesMomentum
'out of the party' and to 'go back to your student politics' #ITVElection2019
https://itv.com/news/2019-12-12/election-2019-live-the-results-itv-news/…
Liz Kendall or Stella creasey would make great middle ground leaders
Both very intelligent women
Ed/David was a real sliding doors moment for labour (and the UK).
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 20:32
Ed/David was a real sliding doors moment for labour (and the UK).
Yes we fecked up big time there
David milliband was a centrist moderate who could have taken the party forward but he had links with Blair and Iraq
Ed milliband , propped up by the union vote , was hopeless
Jordi Culé
13-12-19, 20:49
I see Corbyn loyalists are blaming Brexit for the election outcome. I'd say they are right to do so, but what they are not comprehending is that it is their Brexit policy which has cost them. All the Conservatives did was increase their vote by around 1.5%, a far bigger contribution to the result was Labour's decline from 40% of the vote in 2017 to 32.2% this time around. I think Corbyn should go much sooner rather than later because his strategy (and the public perception is that it was his strategy) saw his party losing support among remainers as well as leavers.
What I failed to understand in 2016 and still don't understand now is that the difference makers in the Referendum were working class people in what were Labour strongholds. It seems to me that they voted Leave because of a "my life is shit" sentiment, but it baffles me why they would hold the EU and the main opposition party responsible for that, rather than the Government of this country in which the Conservative party had been a constant factor for six years at the time of the vote.
However, that's what they did and what they have done again, so I think those of us in England and Wales especially who want to get the Conservative party out have to try and find out why ex mining communities see the need to "get Brexit done" as a higher priority than getting rid of a party that has historically been despised in such areas.
Like you, I voted Remain in 2016, albeit reluctantly, but although I'm convinced that the 17.4 million voted for stacks of different versions of Brexit in the Referendum, the democracy being denied argument they came out with was, for me, a very hard one to counter, so I had made up my mind to vote Leave in the event of a second vote.
I'm extremely disappointed with the election result, but the truth is that my main motivation was to try and keep the Torys out and that was the reason I voted Labour rather than a desire to see them win - if I had been living in Scotland, I would definitely have voted SNP and, if Corbyn outstays his welcome in a bid to get more of the same in terms of the party leadership, then Plaid will start looking an increasingly attractive option for me.
Although Adam Price presented as a honest and good politician and I'm open to the idea of Welsh independence the only thing that trips them up is their policies are more unrealistic than Corbyn's. The uncomfortable fact for them is that although in the Welsh assembly they're the main opposition to Labour come the GE they poll far below the Tories nationally.
Corbyn fudged the issue of Brexit which undoubtedly has led to Labour getting slammed in traditional Labour areas. His strategy of trying to be all things to everyone has kicked him right in the arse.
Wales-Bales
13-12-19, 20:52
The price of integrity ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELqC70rXYAAaUSu?format=jpg
Jordi Culé
13-12-19, 20:53
And presumably you don't think that Corbyn is a racist or liar, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
You forgot to call him a terrorist too.
Minus 10 points.
Jordi Culé
13-12-19, 20:55
Liz Kendall or Stella creasey would make great middle ground leaders
Both very intelligent women
I don't see anything other than Keir Starmer unless he's been tainted for being in Corbyn's shadow bench?
Labour Party members who have listened to him speak were very complimentary about him.
Elwood Blues
13-12-19, 21:06
There's been a lot of talk about One Nation Conservatism today from the winning party and it'll be interesting to see whether there are changes to the Cabinet in the coming days, because the last thing I'd expect from the one that went into the election is One Nation Conservatism.
Apparently according to Laura K there will be some appointments next week (they have to replace Nicky Morgan and Zac Goldsmith) with a major cabinet reshuffle after Brexit
A very subdued atmosphere in the QT audience given one party has been voted in with a big majority.
Interesting analysis of the number of votes needed to elect an MP by @electoralreform:
Across Britain, it took...
��️864,743 votes to elect 1 Green MP
��️642,303 votes to elect 0 Brexit Party MPs
��️334,122 votes to elect a Lib Dem
��️50,817 votes for a Labour MP
��️38,316 votes for a Plaid Cymru MP
��️38,300 votes for a Con. MP
��️25,882 votes for a SNP MP
and about 642,000 votes to not elect any Brexit Party MP.
not sure how but we should be looking at another way of doing politics and have also advocated many times we should look at some form of proportional respresentation and looking at those stats you can't disagree . this first past the post system needs to be looked at as it belongs in the past .
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-12-19, 23:23
not sure how but we should be looking at another way of doing politics and have also advocated many times we should look at some form of proportional respresentation and looking at those stats you can't disagree . this first past the post system needs to be looked at as it belongs in the past .
The country was offered a watered down version of pr called the alternative vote but most people couldn't even be bothered to get out of bed to vote for it
With the tories in such a commanding position now we have no chance of getting electoral reform for the foreseeable future
Organ Morgan.
14-12-19, 05:30
It's the same tedious scripted pantomime at every General Election that the majority of voters fall for (76% voted for the reds or blues) with the two major parties casting the other as a scary villain. The Tories will crush the poor and downtrodden Labour says while the Tories portray Labour as financially clueless who will bankrupt the country. Neither side will institute PR because both know they will lose the opportunity to gain unfettered power. PR would eliminate the prospect of their supposedly terrible foe from having free reign to wreak havoc on who they say they want to protect, but both are dead against doing the obvious. That's because it's much easier for those who really run the show from behind the stage to get what they want (i.e., more for themselves, less for everyone else).
Below is Thursday's seats won under first past the post and what they would have been in brackets under PR.
Con 365 (289)
Lab 203 (213)
Lib 11 (76)
SNP 48 (26)
Brexit 0 (13)
Green 1 (18)
Others 22 (15)
The Tories took 43.6% of votes cast for those 365 seats. The biggest post war General Election win by seats taken was Labour's 418 in 1997 when they attracted a smaller percentage (43.2%) than the Tories did on Thursday. The system is so farcical that in 1951 Labour had the highest percentage of post war General Election votes with 48.8% but lost the election to the Tories and their 48.0% share.
Jordi Culé
14-12-19, 06:35
It's the same tedious scripted pantomime at every General Election that the majority of voters fall for (76% voted for the reds or blues) with the two major parties casting the other as a scary villain. The Tories will crush the poor and downtrodden Labour says while the Tories portray Labour as financially clueless who will bankrupt the country. Neither side will institute PR because both know they will lose the opportunity to gain unfettered power. PR would eliminate the prospect of their supposedly terrible foe from having free reign to wreak havoc on who they say they want to protect, but both are dead against doing the obvious. That's because it's much easier for those who really run the show from behind the stage to get what they want (i.e., more for themselves, less for everyone else).
Below is Thursday's seats won under first past the post and what they would have been in brackets under PR.
Con 365 (289)
Lab 203 (213)
Lib 11 (76)
SNP 48 (26)
Brexit 0 (13)
Green 1 (18)
Others 22 (15)
The Tories took 43.6% of votes cast for those 365 seats. The biggest post war General Election win by seats taken was Labour's 418 in 1997 when they attracted a smaller percentage (43.2%) than the Tories did on Thursday. The system is so farcical that in 1951 Labour had the highest percentage of post war General Election votes with 48.8% but lost the election to the Tories and their 48.0% share.
Exactly:thumbup:
“ The sad thing is that whatever people think of Corbyn, his policies were designed to help these very people, they were genuine and honest “
Deluded. He’s policy’s we’re naive. London Labour MP centric and nothing to do with the labour heartlands.
“ The sad thing is that whatever people think of Corbyn, his policies were designed to help these very people, they were genuine and honest “
Exactly right. I don't know what part of the manifesto could be honestly described as 'London Labour MP centric' (whatever that means).
I do know the manifesto was enthusiastically adopted by Labour Party members across its traditional heartlands and that it wasn't (apart from the Brexit stance) a major problem on the doorstep - in fact the opposite. It was as popular as the 2017 version.
Brexit was a problem. Corbyn was marmite. The anti-semitism mud stuck. There were other reasons too - but not generally the policy proposals in the manifesto.
A Quiet Monkfish
14-12-19, 09:16
“ The sad thing is that whatever people think of Corbyn, his policies were designed to help these very people, they were genuine and honest “
Exactly right. I don't know what part of the manifesto could be honestly described as 'London Labour MP centric' (whatever that means).
I do know the manifesto was enthusiastically adopted by Labour Party members across its traditional heartlands and that it wasn't (apart from the Brexit stance) a major problem on the doorstep - in fact the opposite. It was as popular as the 2017 version.
Brexit was a problem. Corbyn was marmite. The anti-semitism mud stuck. There were other reasons too - but not generally the policy proposals in the manifesto.
You're right. The policy proposals weren't a problem - people just didn't believe them. a daily diet of a new multi billion pound idea which in total would cost 25% of GDP, and then tell people they're going to be thousands of pounds better of every year. These are folk who have to budget on a daily basis and know how money works.
McDonnell and Corbyn, two creeps of the highest order..
the other bob wilson
14-12-19, 10:13
You're right. The policy proposals weren't a problem - people just didn't believe them. a daily diet of a new multi billion pound idea which in total would cost 25% of GDP, and then tell people they're going to be thousands of pounds better of every year. These are folk who have to budget on a daily basis and know how money works.
McDonnell and Corbyn, two creeps of the highest order..
I don't think there was a big swing against Labour directly because of what their Manifesto said, but the problem was that every day brought a new expensive policy and, by the time it came to vote, there was belief that they had gone into the realms of fantasy. Just sticking to four or five core popular policies would have suited Labour better, but, honestly, all I think it would have done was reduce the Tory majority somewhat - this election was not decided by what was in party manifestos (not sure if they ever are).
I've seen suggestions that Corbyn's "defence" of Russia following the Skripal poisonings played badly with patriotic working class voters and I think that's probably correct (although the irony which sees them voting for a man called Boris who suppresses Parliamentary reports into Russian involvement in UK elections/referendums does not escape me) - Corbyn was not the only reason Labour were routed, but I'd say he was the biggest one when you consider his stance on Brexit.
Agree with Bob. The manifestos werent that influential on either side imo
lisvaneblue
14-12-19, 10:42
I don't think there was a big swing against Labour directly because of what their Manifesto said, but the problem was that every day brought a new expensive policy and, by the time it came to vote, there was belief that they had gone into the realms of fantasy. Just sticking to four or five core popular policies would have suited Labour better, but, honestly, all I think it would have done was reduce the Tory majority somewhat - this election was not decided by what was in party manifestos (not sure if they ever are).
I've seen suggestions that Corbyn's "defence" of Russia following the Skripal poisonings played badly with patriotic working class voters and I think that's probably correct (although the irony which sees them voting for a man called Boris who suppresses Parliamentary reports into Russian involvement in UK elections/referendums does not escape me) - Corbyn was not the only reason Labour were routed, but I'd say he was the biggest one when you consider his stance on Brexit.
Totally agree with your last sentence. I wish he could bring himself to say sorry to his party and those MPs who have lost their jobs. He seems to find apologising difficult. I hope he does not hang about. We need a strong opposition whoever is in government and we won't get that until he and his front bench have gone.
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