View Full Version : Labour Report Published
Wales-Bales
13-04-20, 05:44
And leaked all over the internet.
The new fella has got some work to do!
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 07:35
It's an internal report which whilst failing to adequately focus on the antisemitism claims, trawled through various social media in an attempt to damn party officials and whistleblowers to try to undermine the legal action being taken against the party and indeed the EHRC report. It's also aimed at making it look like poor Jezza never had a chance, own party working against the poor fellow.
Leaked to people like Squealer Jones, grifter Jon oops Rachael Swindon and highly antisemitic Dorset Eye.
Sadly for Labour, this strategy is a bit of a faux pas. Given it was leaked unredacted, it means details of complainants are contained, a breach of GDPR. Labour could well now face legal action from individuals and ICO action as well. Given that could bankrupt the party, seems Corbynistas attempting a scorched earth policy - Jezza can't have it, no-one can.
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 08:06
Imagine this will get move to Politics forum.
Interesting intervention from Andy Burnham, who has (since losing to Corbyn in 2015) become probably my favourite politician. Good honest guy who knows his own faults.
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1249424188454076421
Just take that in for a second... 'Always felt like the Party machine opposed my pro-public NHS & social care policies between 2010 & 2015'. I always assumed Burnham upped sticks and ran for Mayor of Manchester because he was sick of Corbyn, looks like it was the other people he was sick of.
Wales-Bales
13-04-20, 08:16
Imagine this will get move to Politics forum.
Interesting intervention from Andy Burnham, who has (since losing to Corbyn in 2015) become probably my favourite politician. Good honest guy who knows his own faults.
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1249424188454076421
Just take that in for a second... 'Always felt like the Party machine opposed my pro-public NHS & social care policies between 2010 & 2015'. I always assumed Burnham upped sticks and ran for Mayor of Manchester because he was sick of Corbyn, looks like it was the other people he was sick of.
Sounds like the Labour party has been infiltrated, don't forget Blair and Osborne wanted to join forces not so long ago.
Imagine this will get move to Politics forum.
Interesting intervention from Andy Burnham, who has (since losing to Corbyn in 2015) become probably my favourite politician. Good honest guy who knows his own faults.
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1249424188454076421
Just take that in for a second... 'Always felt like the Party machine opposed my pro-public NHS & social care policies between 2010 & 2015'. I always assumed Burnham upped sticks and ran for Mayor of Manchester because he was sick of Corbyn, looks like it was the other people he was sick of.
Unfortunately virtually all of the decent Labour politicians were marginalised during the Corbyn era. Starmer has a lot of work to do but has started by getting rid of the dross and bringing some decent talent back into the fold. He's now got to sort out those who have ruined the Party in HQ. He's got 4 years to get the Party's act together.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 09:47
Unfortunately virtually all of the decent Labour politicians were marginalised during the Corbyn era. Starmer has a lot of work to do but has started by getting rid of the dross and bringing some decent talent back into the fold. He's now got to sort out those who have ruined the Party in HQ. He's got 4 years to get the Party's act together.
4 years isn't enough to turn it around, if the party doesn't go bust.
People are underestimating this deliberate attempt to destroy the party by Momentum. Unredacted report has been leaked, link tweeted by many including Leanne Wood. The unredacted version contains personal details of people having made complaints, whistleblowers. The scale of the GDPR violations are massive - and that is worse is that several of those subjects put in SARs ( Subject Access Requests ) to be informed as to the data the party held on them. The report apparently reveals the party did not give full responses to those SARs.
Worse than that, what else does it say? The party of the workers, who back whistleblowers in public now shit all over them in private when they want scores settled.
The financial penalties could and should bankrupt the party. If they don't, the reputational damage will make Labour unelectable for a long time.
EDIT: Even without all the Momentum / Corbynista caused trouble, Starmer's shadow cabinet is overwhelmingly, if not all, Remainers. That won't go down well with the so called Red Wall.
life on mars
13-04-20, 09:55
Imagine this will get move to Politics forum.
Interesting intervention from Andy Burnham, who has (since losing to Corbyn in 2015) become probably my favourite politician. Good honest guy who knows his own faults.
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1249424188454076421
Just take that in for a second... 'Always felt like the Party machine opposed my pro-public NHS & social care policies between 2010 & 2015'. I always assumed Burnham upped sticks and ran for Mayor of Manchester because he was sick of Corbyn, looks like it was the other people he was sick of.
Do agree, Andy Burnham was a decent sort would have made a better leader than Corbyn , party got hijacked thanks to the Ed , which I also liked up until that magical moment when leadership rules got thrown in the air.
the other bob wilson
13-04-20, 10:07
4 years isn't enough to turn it around, if the party doesn't go bust.
People are underestimating this deliberate attempt to destroy the party by Momentum. Unredacted report has been leaked, link tweeted by many including Leanne Wood. The unredacted version contains personal details of people having made complaints, whistleblowers. The scale of the GDPR violations are massive - and that is worse is that several of those subjects put in SARs ( Subject Access Requests ) to be informed as to the data the party held on them. The report apparently reveals the party did not give full responses to those SARs.
Worse than that, what else does it say? The party of the workers, who back whistleblowers in public now shit all over them in private when they want scores settled.
The financial penalties could and should bankrupt the party. If they don't, the reputational damage will make Labour unelectable for a long time.
EDIT: Even without all the Momentum / Corbynista caused trouble, Starmer's shadow cabinet is overwhelmingly, if not all, Remainers. That won't go down well with the so called Red Wall.
You aren't half beginning to sound like that Ronnie Bird.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 10:11
You aren't half beginning to sound like that Ronnie Bird.
You aren't half sounding like an apologist unable to grasp the seriousness of what Momentum have done here.
Failing to secure personal data is a major offence... complainants being named is ****ing serious, christ, an American neo-Nazi site has already hosted / linked to the unredacted report...
Yet your priority is claiming I'm someone else... interesting.
Labour are already being sued by whistleblowers. This on top? You remain in denial all you like...
Think it should be said that the names listed have now gone from party, however Starmer needs to ensure party can work together as a broad church if wanting to win next election and need to do it quickly. Labour's first problem is that no one wants to invest in party that can't work together as it would most likely fall apart under scrutiny.
Tell it like it is, weren't you the one saying national crisis is not the time to ask political parties tough questions even if it's in the national interest to do so? Shouldn't we all band together and think what we can do to support labour party or stay quiet?
life on mars
13-04-20, 10:23
Think it should be said that the names listed have now gone from party, however Starmer needs to ensure party can work together as a broad church if wanting to win next election and need to do it quickly. Labour's first problem is that no one wants to invest in party that can't work together as it would most likely fall apart under scrutiny.
Tell it like it is, weren't you the one saying national crisis is not the time to ask political parties tough questions? Shouldn't we all band together and think what we can do to support labour party or stay quiet?
Brilliant post , I do dislike these personal jibe replies ,they've vacuous.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 10:24
And again, even without legal action, ICO action, the party won't unite. Corbynistas don't want a "broad church" because centrists ae EVVVVVIIIILLLLL despite the public voting for them in Blair's time. It's full on civil war, this report - written by a Momentum member unable to edit exif data - was designed purely to divide and undermine Starmer.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 10:25
And the worst bit? Some Corbynistas believe this is the EHRC report and exonerates Labour on antisemitism!
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 10:44
Do agree, Andy Burnham was a decent sort would have made a better leader than Corbyn , party got hijacked thanks to the Ed , which I also liked up until that magical moment when leadership rules got thrown in the air.
He is saying he was undermined by the 'party machine' in 2010 and 2015 for being too far to the left.
I agree he would have been a better leader.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 10:47
He is insinuating that the party was in a state long before Momentum existed due to unelected officials who thought Burnham himself (and also the majority of the PLP) was too far to the left.
Which is interesting, given he came a distant second to Corbyn in the leadership election, clearly people felt he was too far to the right...
EDIT: And to be fair, shadow cabinet meetings would be interesting what with Shami having threatened to sue Burnham..
the other bob wilson
13-04-20, 10:52
You aren't half sounding like an apologist unable to grasp the seriousness of what Momentum have done here.
Failing to secure personal data is a major offence... complainants being named is ****ing serious, christ, an American neo-Nazi site has already hosted / linked to the unredacted report...
Yet your priority is claiming I'm someone else... interesting.
Labour are already being sued by whistleblowers. This on top? You remain in denial all you like...
Er, all I did was say that you sound like another poster on here, I'm not sure how you can make so many assumptions about me from that one observation which was nothing to do with the Labout party or its personnel.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 10:55
Er, all I did was say that you sound like another poster on here, I'm not sure how you can make so many assumptions about me from that one observation which was nothing to do with the Labout party or its personnel.
Well, my fault for making an assumption due to your silence on the actual topic matter.
People seem to underestimate the problems this leak has caused. Lawsuits alone could cripple Labour.
Is this the huge report that the Party was going to send to the Anti-emetism Investigation because rhey thought it would exhonerate them?
I think I read in th papers the other day that the Labour Party's lawyers had told them not to send it as it would do more harm than good.
It seems whoever leaked it intended exactly that. Like turkeys voting for christmas.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 11:03
Is this the huge report that the Party was going to send to the Anti-emetism Investigation because rhey thought it would exhonerate them?
I think I read in th papers the other day that the Labour Party's lawyers had told them not to send it as it would do more harm than good.
It seems whoever leaked it intended exactly that. Like turkeys voting for christmas.
This internal ( thus not independent ) report explicitly states that the antisemitism claims were not smears. That instantly kills any defence to any EHRC findings - this report appears to claim that people working against Corbyn meant antisemitism wasn't being dealt with. So yeah, sending it to EHRC would damage Labour badly.
In leaking it, they've now triggered legal action, ICO complaints for revealing personal details of whistleblowers.
It's a scorched earth policy. Corbynistas ousted, want to kill the party in revenge.
Imagine this will get move to Politics forum.
Interesting intervention from Andy Burnham, who has (since losing to Corbyn in 2015) become probably my favourite politician. Good honest guy who knows his own faults.
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1249424188454076421
Just take that in for a second... 'Always felt like the Party machine opposed my pro-public NHS & social care policies between 2010 & 2015'. I always assumed Burnham upped sticks and ran for Mayor of Manchester because he was sick of Corbyn, looks like it was the other people he was sick of.
Shocking really. The party could do with Burnham back on the front bench.
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 11:33
Which is interesting, given he came a distant second to Corbyn in the leadership election, clearly people felt he was too far to the right...
EDIT: And to be fair, shadow cabinet meetings would be interesting what with Shami having threatened to sue Burnham..
The membership didn't choose him to be leader, could be for a number of different reasons. This report isn't about the membership or really about the PLP (although some notable mentions). How much of the report have you read?
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 11:36
Is this the huge report that the Party was going to send to the Anti-emetism Investigation because rhey thought it would exhonerate them?
I think I read in th papers the other day that the Labour Party's lawyers had told them not to send it as it would do more harm than good.
It seems whoever leaked it intended exactly that. Like turkeys voting for christmas.
It is the correct decision not to send, that doesn't mean it shouldn't see the light of day though.
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 11:38
This internal ( thus not independent ) report explicitly states that the antisemitism claims were not smears. That instantly kills any defence to any EHRC findings - this report appears to claim that people working against Corbyn meant antisemitism wasn't being dealt with. So yeah, sending it to EHRC would damage Labour badly.
In leaking it, they've now triggered legal action, ICO complaints for revealing personal details of whistleblowers.
It's a scorched earth policy. Corbynistas ousted, want to kill the party in revenge.
Who leaked it?
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 11:39
The membership didn't choose him to be leader, could be for a number of different reasons. This report isn't about the membership or really about the PLP (although some notable mentions). How much of the report have you read?
Not all. It is 860 pages after all. Very foolish of them to have revealed details of whistleblowers given ICO fines are unlimited in nature.
Most of the report seems to be crap tbh. Ooooh, people don't like others in an organisation and bitch on social media about them? Meh.
What's important are the report revealing antisemitism claims weren't a smear, finger pointing at other factions isn't meaningful when the point is that cases weren't dealt with plus the data breaches.
The first two points would influence any EHRC determination if the report had been submitted, the latter means Labour are in deep shit legally.
It is the correct decision not to send, that doesn't mean it shouldn't see the light of day though.
I agree it was the right decision but doing it this way will do more harm. I can only think that that is what the leaker intended, because now the investigation has it anyway! Why else do it?
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 11:40
Who leaked it?
The exact person or faction?
We know who wrote the document, it's in the document exif data, we know which faction he's high up in if that's what you're asking?
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 11:42
It is the correct decision not to send, that doesn't mean it shouldn't see the light of day though.
Unredacted or redacted?
I'm sure you'd be ecstatic if you made a complaint at work about the conduct of others onl for company to then publicly reveal a report into it revealing your personal details...
Elwood Blues
13-04-20, 11:45
Shocking really. The party could do with Burnham back on the front bench.
Indeed.
Don't always agree with him but he could well have won in 2017.
Having said that I doubt if there would have been an election in 2017 if he had been in charge because the opinion polls would probably have been much tighter.
We would instead probably have been looking at an election this year (but not May obviously)and the political dynamic of the country would have been entirely different.
Elwood Blues
13-04-20, 11:51
Who leaked it?
Aye there's the rub
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 11:52
Unredacted or redacted?
I'm sure you'd be ecstatic if you made a complaint at work about the conduct of others onl for company to then publicly reveal a report into it revealing your personal details...
redacted where necessary obviously. The theme is the important thing here.
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 11:54
The exact person or faction?
We know who wrote the document, it's in the document exif data, we know which faction he's high up in if that's what you're asking?
You have posted a pretty detailed account as to how this reached the public sphere, was just wondering if it was theory or fact.
Elwood Blues
13-04-20, 11:56
The exact person or faction?
We know who wrote the document, it's in the document exif data, we know which faction he's high up in if that's what you're asking?
Who did write it?
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 11:58
What's important are the report revealing antisemitism claims weren't a smear, finger pointing at other factions isn't meaningful when the point is that cases weren't dealt with plus the data breaches.
Well, I agree that it isn't meaningful for the actual investigation but it is an interesting take for anybody who has followed politics over the past few years. For example, an official bragging about slowing down a suspension because doing so will hurt the leader.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 11:58
redacted where necessary obviously. The theme is the important thing here.
Well, that's fine but it wasn't redacted.
The theme is nothing more than mounting a defence of Corbyn, undermining Starmer. The report would weaken any defence by Labour to EHRC investigation and the data breaches can be up to 4% of global turnoever or £20m, whichever is highest.
Since you wanted to know who leaked it, there's a simple test. Who does it benefit?
Simple answer is Momentum and Corbyn. All those nasty people allegedly plotting against him, why he couldn't do anything about antisemitism due to that... as the report was written by a Momentum higher-up and leaked to Novara, Canary, Owen Jones, Rachael "Jon" Swindon, it's pretty clear which faction leaked it.
As I said elsewhere, it's a scorched earth policy which due to ****wittery will cost them dearly in both individual lawsuits, ICO fines and reputational damage - Labour can never claim to back the rights of whistleblowers after this.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 12:06
Well, I agree that it isn't meaningful for the actual investigation but it is an interesting take for anybody who has followed politics over the past few years. For example, an official bragging about slowing down a suspension because doing so will hurt the leader.
Ah, is that the one where it's clear Karie Murphy was being quoted which people have misread?
Right wingers have infiltrated the Labour party, they have worked against Labour to ensure that the Conservatives have won the last few elections.
These right wingers are supporters of a foreign power and they want a Government in place that would be sympathetic to this foreign power.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 12:38
Right wingers have infiltrated the Labour party, they have worked against Labour to ensure that the Conservatives have won the last few elections.
These right wingers are supporters of a foreign power and they want a Government in place that would be sympathetic to this foreign power.
What foreign power would that be? I'm sure if you'd evidence then you'd name said foreign power.
I disagree with your claim of infiltration; Momentum infiltrated taking party further left after all.
Any election these days is won in the center not the extremes. Labour ignoring that means the emptiest vessels will continue shouting loudest... and losing elections.
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 12:50
Well, that's fine but it wasn't redacted.
The theme is nothing more than mounting a defence of Corbyn, undermining Starmer. The report would weaken any defence by Labour to EHRC investigation and the data breaches can be up to 4% of global turnoever or £20m, whichever is highest.
Since you wanted to know who leaked it, there's a simple test. Who does it benefit?
Simple answer is Momentum and Corbyn. All those nasty people allegedly plotting against him, why he couldn't do anything about antisemitism due to that... as the report was written by a Momentum higher-up and leaked to Novara, Canary, Owen Jones, Rachael "Jon" Swindon, it's pretty clear which faction leaked it.
As I said elsewhere, it's a scorched earth policy which due to ****wittery will cost them dearly in both individual lawsuits, ICO fines and reputational damage - Labour can never claim to back the rights of whistleblowers after this.
Momentum bad, everyone else good. You surely can't be this naive?
Starmer has a lot on his hands.
So, when labour isn't bankrupt and the lawsuits don't happen will you still be on the same username?
Eric Cartman
13-04-20, 12:50
Ah, is that the one where it's clear Karie Murphy was being quoted which people have misread?
Happy to concede that one after a bit more research, certainly presented in a disingenuous way.
What foreign power would that be? I'm sure if you'd evidence then you'd name said foreign power.
I disagree with your claim of infiltration; Momentum infiltrated taking party further left after all.
Any election these days is won in the center not the extremes. Labour ignoring that means the emptiest vessels will continue shouting loudest... and losing elections.
It's Israel, some right wing Labour Jewish mps have been actively working against brother Corbyn, right wing quislings are doing a number on Labour, wasn't Miliband Jewish ?, isn't Starmer married to a Jew and aren't his children Jewish ?, Labour anti semitic oh aye...do me a favour.
Oh and I'm Plaid, I don't vote for a Unionist party.
Labour was a left wing party not a right wing party, if a person is left wing and Labour is not left wing then there is no point in voting for them and as regards elections being won in the centre, the Conservatives are right wing, zero hour contracts, food banks, looking after the well off etc etc.
Right wingers have infiltrated the Labour party, they have worked against Labour to ensure that the Conservatives have won the last few elections.
These right wingers are supporters of a foreign power and they want a Government in place that would be sympathetic to this foreign power.
You are Organ Morgan and I claim my £5.00 ( or maybe Dai, hmmmm!)
You are Organ Morgan and I claim my £5.00 ( or maybe Dai, hmmmm!)
I'm trampie and only trampie banned from everywhere for being a Welsh valley boy and being a product of my environment.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 13:06
Happy to concede that one after a bit more research, certainly presented in a disingenuous way.
Yeah, it's due to the ellipsis - people reading it that the first part was the Karie quote, the second part actions arising afterwards.
I suspect it was written that way deliberately - not outwardly lying, but can be read two ways.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 13:09
It's Israel, some right wing Labour Jewish mps have been actively working against brother Corbyn, right wing quislings are doing a number on Labour, wasn't Miliband Jewish ?, isn't Starmer married to a Jew and aren't his children Jewish ?, Labour anti semitic oh aye...do me a favour.
Oh and I'm Plaid, I don't vote for a Unionist party.
Labour was a left wing party not a right wing party, if a person is left wing and Labour is not left wing then there is no point in voting for them and as regards elections being won in the centre, the Conservatives are right wing, zero hour contracts, food banks, looking after the well off etc etc.
Hi Organ.
Who would those "quislings" be? ( Interesting choice of words btw ). Labour antisemitic? The leaked report says antisemitism claims weren't smears, so... awkward.
Plaid? Well, Leanne retweeted the unredacted document, so will be lucky to avoid being sued.
Your political analysis fails to grasp elections are won in the middle, not at either extreme.
I'm not Organ I'm trampie, ask Pearcey3 he knows me as a poster from an old Welsh rugby board.
Luvely Leanne is a true conviction politician, a true activist, one of the very best.
You say elections are won in the middle, do you remember Milk Snatcher ?, the last election was won by Boris, both those Tory Government's were/are not from the centre ground.
dandywarhol
13-04-20, 13:18
The 2017 election campaign was undermined by the right wing.
Labour came close but not close enough to winning.
Just imagine NHS funding would have been boosted significantly.
Labour might well have listen to the warnings in 2017 about a world wide pandemic coming,and that we were not prepared.
NHS would have had the right equipment that had been stored in warehouses.
If only Heineken done elections.
Get brexit done.**** everything esle.
I'm not Organ I'm trampie, ask Pearcey3 he knows me as a poster from an old Welsh rugby board.
Luvely Leanne is a true conviction politician, a true activist, one of the very best.
You say elections are won in the middle, do you remember Milk Snatcher ?, the last election was won by Boris, both those Tory Government's were/are not from the centre ground.
Trampie, I never question a person's own political beliefs. The OM thing was more a dig at him as he is a complete conspiracy theorist, but it was only in jest. no offence meant!!
The 2017 election campaign was undermined by the right wing.
Labour came close but not close enough to winning.
Just imagine NHS funding would have been boosted significantly.
Labour might well have listen to the warnings in 2017 about a world wide pandemic coming,and that we were not prepared.
NHS would have had the right equipment that had been stored in warehouses.
If only Heineken done elections.
Get brexit done.**** everything esle.
This is an excerpt from the work ‘cloud cuckoo land’.
Eric the Half a Bee
13-04-20, 13:30
What foreign power would that be? I'm sure if you'd evidence then you'd name said foreign power.
I disagree with your claim of infiltration; Momentum infiltrated taking party further left after all.
Any election these days is won in the center not the extremes. Labour ignoring that means the emptiest vessels will continue shouting loudest... and losing elections.
Why do you think Momentum are far left and what does that mean? I don't support Momentum btw, but if they're one extreme and the likes of the BNP and Britain First are on the other, I know which organisation is far more peaceful, inclusive and wanting the best for everyone.
Let's also consider that Labour were a centre left party when it romped to a massive majority in 1997. Under Blair it moved more and more right and became unelectable as a result. Labour's move back left resulted in a huge growth in membership and a close showing in the 2017 election despite being given little fair play by a media desperate to keep being allowed to evade taxes.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 13:30
I'm not Organ I'm trampie, ask Pearcey3 he knows me as a poster from an old Welsh rugby board.
Luvely Leanne is a true conviction politician, a true activist, one of the very best.
You say elections are won in the middle, do you remember Milk Snatcher ?, the last election was won by Boris, both those Tory Government's were/are not from the centre ground.
Organ would say that - you're an egger? Oh dear...
Thatcher was when? Society moves on, Organ / Trampie. Since Major, elections have been won and lost by the center. Labour lurched left under Corbyn, abandoned the center ground and lost as a result.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 13:33
Why do you think Momentum are far left and what does that mean? I don't support Momentum btw, but if they're one extreme and the likes of the BNP and Britain First are on the other, I know which organisation is far more peaceful, inclusive and wanting the best for everyone.
Let's also consider that Labour were a centre left party when it romped to a massive majority in 1997. Under Blair it moved more and more right and became unelectable as a result. Labour's move back left resulted in a huge growth in membership and a close showing in the 2017 election despite being given little fair play by a media desperate to keep being allowed to evade taxes.
I said further left. Momentum I've little doubt have some far left involved. Far left, far right are every bit as bad as each other.
Blair didn't lose an election, Brown did. The membership growth isn't that irrelevant, it's voters that matter at end of day - and Labour keep saying "500k" but have refused to give actual figures the last few years.
2017 imo Labour had a perfect storm of "new" Leader promising the earth along with May running one of the worst political campaigns ever... and still failed to win.
It's easy to blame the media and not politicians.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 13:34
Trampie, I never question a person's own political beliefs. The OM thing was more a dig at him as he is a complete conspiracy theorist, but it was only in jest. no offence meant!!
Well, if he was Organ he'd want you to think that.
Trampie, do you use Youtube at all?
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 13:35
Happy to concede that one after a bit more research, certainly presented in a disingenuous way.
Found this, seems quote was doctored.
https://twitter.com/notcalledjohn/status/1249646419994120192/photo/1
Organ would say that - you're an egger? Oh dear...
Thatcher was when? Society moves on, Organ / Trampie. Since Major, elections have been won and lost by the center. Labour lurched left under Corbyn, abandoned the center ground and lost as a result.
There is no point in Labour winning a UK General Election if they are not on the left as people would be voting for a brand and not for left wing policies, totally pointless.
Well, if he was Organ he'd want you to think that.
Trampie, do you use Youtube at all?
I'm aware of it but I don't use it.
dandywarhol
13-04-20, 13:45
The 2017 election campaign was undermined by the right wing.
Labour came close but not close enough to winning.
Just imagine NHS funding would have been boosted significantly.
Labour might well have listen to the warnings in 2017 about a world wide pandemic coming,and that we were not prepared.
NHS would have had the right equipment that had been stored in warehouses.
If only Heineken done elections.
Get brexit done.**** everything esle.
Have a read and a listen to this.
The western world has been preoccupied by greed and profit,
The wise man built his house on rock.The foolish man built his on sand.https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/george-bush-2005-wait-pandemic-late-prepare/story?id=69979013
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 13:46
There is no point in Labour winning a UK General Election if they are not on the left as people would be voting for a brand and not for left wing policies, totally pointless.
People vote for a brand anyway for the most part!
The batteground is the center. Center-left, center-right. Extremes on both sides only ever appeal to a small demographic.
That was Corbyn's fault, looking to left only and failing to grasp needed to attract votes from Tories, not purely appeal to core base.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 13:47
I'm aware of it but I don't use it.
Present but didn't inhale, huh?
People vote for a brand anyway for the most part!
The batteground is the center. Center-left, center-right. Extremes on both sides only ever appeal to a small demographic.
That was Corbyn's fault, looking to left only and failing to grasp needed to attract votes from Tories, not purely appeal to core base.
If you look at the political compass site the Conservative party are off the scale right wing, Plaid are very close to the centre (slightly left), Labour was off the scale right wing until Corbyn also.
If anyone has an interest in the Data Protection side of this (just me maybe!) Morrisons' recent Supreme Court judgement could be relevant here. In that case a rogue employee ,who had been subject to a disciplinary, leaked online the payroll files of close to 100,000 staff.
Initially the ICO fined them and it was upheld at appeal but just a few weeks ago the Supreme Court overturned both decisions as it decided (probably fairly in the end) that a company cannot be held reasonably responsible for employees going rogue and committing criminal acts.
So in terms of any data protection enforcement it will all depend on if this document was hacked due to poor security or had been released as a deliberate act by someone with a grudge.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 14:01
If you look at the political compass site the Conservative party are off the scale right wing, Plaid are very close to the centre (slightly left), Labour was off the scale right wing until Corbyn also.
What political compass site is that? Isn't that purely a subjective assessment anyway?
Labour off the scale right wing? Are you seriously claiming Labour were akin to NF, BNP et al before Corbyn???
What political compass site is that? Isn't that purely a subjective assessment anyway?
Labour off the scale right wing? Are you seriously claiming Labour were akin to NF, BNP et al before Corbyn???
The political compass site, they used to show the parties over the years (not sure if they still do), I remember reading a comment about Labour after somebody seen their position on a graph when they were right wing pre Corbyn where they noted they were almost a facist party, it made me smile but I thought fair enough hard to argue with that, you could barely get a fag paper between Labour and Conservative policies at the time, I used to call Labour red Tories it used to upset some old Labour voters but that is where the Labour party was.
As regards NF/BNP types their policies could be said to be populist just like Trump and Boris parties of today.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 14:34
Good grief, I'm convinced you genuinely believe what you wrote, Organ / Trampie.
Good grief, I'm convinced you genuinely believe what you wrote, Organ / Trampie.
I will give you a tip butt, I never lie and have no agenda so it's difficult to trump me in a debate, that is why I always get banned.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 14:57
I will give you a tip butt, I never lie and have no agenda so it's difficult to trump me in a debate, that is why I always get banned.
You're not trumping anyone nor is it a personal thing as you seem to believe....
If you're claiming Labour were right wing pre Corbyn, you're bonkers.
You're not trumping anyone nor is it a personal thing as you seem to believe....
If you're claiming Labour were right wing pre Corbyn, you're bonkers.
They were right wing, no doubt about it, the political compass site pitched them as right wing, Tony Blair was more of a Tory than Margaret Thatcher was, they did not call them Red Tories for nothing.
Why do you think Momentum are far left and what does that mean? I don't support Momentum btw, but if they're one extreme and the likes of the BNP and Britain First are on the other, I know which organisation is far more peaceful, inclusive and wanting the best for everyone.
Let's also consider that Labour were a centre left party when it romped to a massive majority in 1997. Under Blair it moved more and more right and became unelectable as a result. Labour's move back left resulted in a huge growth in membership and a close showing in the 2017 election despite being given little fair play by a media desperate to keep being allowed to evade taxes.
:thumbup:
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 15:26
They were right wing, no doubt about it, the political compass site pitched them as right wing, Tony Blair was more of a Tory than Margaret Thatcher was, they did not call them Red Tories for nothing.
So your evidence Labour under Milliband - Milliband ffs - was right wing was a website right?
You're not trumping anyone nor is it a personal thing as you seem to believe....
If you're claiming Labour were right wing pre Corbyn, you're bonkers.
I believe this may be what they're referring to: https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015
Why do you think Momentum are far left and what does that mean? I don't support Momentum btw, but if they're one extreme and the likes of the BNP and Britain First are on the other, I know which organisation is far more peaceful, inclusive and wanting the best for everyone.
Let's also consider that Labour were a centre left party when it romped to a massive majority in 1997. Under Blair it moved more and more right and became unelectable as a result. Labour's move back left resulted in a huge growth in membership and a close showing in the 2017 election despite being given little fair play by a media desperate to keep being allowed to evade taxes.
Top post Eric 👏
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 15:52
I believe this may be what they're referring to: https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015
Bonkers.
Red Ed Milliband, elected by the unions... was on the right...
Bonkers.
Red Ed Milliband, elected by the unions... was on the right...
The unions aren't necessarily left wing
Former Labour leader
13-04-20, 16:07
Imagine this will get move to Politics forum.
Interesting intervention from Andy Burnham, who has (since losing to Corbyn in 2015) become probably my favourite politician. Good honest guy who knows his own faults.
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1249424188454076421
Just take that in for a second... 'Always felt like the Party machine opposed my pro-public NHS & social care policies between 2010 & 2015'. I always assumed Burnham upped sticks and ran for Mayor of Manchester because he was sick of Corbyn, looks like it was the other people he was sick of.
I was at one of Burnham's hustings when he was running for leader. Surprisingly disappointing. Either he thought he had it in the bag, or he knew already he had lost. Failed to inspire me. A politician who is good at soundbites but lacks real conviction.
Bonkers.
Red Ed Milliband, elected by the unions... was on the right...
You don't understand butt for many years Labours policies were right wing, they were a right wing party that called themselves a left wing party, lol, and the London press also loved to call them left wing when they were actually right wing the proof of the pudding is in the eating and their policies were right wing, they weren't looking to renationalise vital industries on mass, they weren't looking to greatly increase taxes or to increase the welfare state, they weren't looking to greatly increase council house building or reinstate clause 4.
The unions are also right wing, in the main it's only higher paid workers and middle class types that are union members, many gig economy workers on zero hour contracts and minimum wage workers and part time workers are not in unions, many shop assistants, cleaners, hairdressers, farm labourers etc are not in unions, unions are often for the elite types teachers, civil servants, train drivers etc.
Former Labour leader
13-04-20, 16:09
Unfortunately virtually all of the decent Labour politicians were marginalised during the Corbyn era. Starmer has a lot of work to do but has started by getting rid of the dross and bringing some decent talent back into the fold. He's now got to sort out those who have ruined the Party in HQ. He's got 4 years to get the Party's act together.
Corbyn was wrong to surround himself with yes men and women. Created a cult that eventually destroyed him. Boris Johnson is going the same way.
The unions aren't necessarily left wing
Well said butt, they are often right wingers these days, it's a shame but there you go.
Power to the people I say.
I was at one of Burnham's hustings when he was running for leader. Surprisingly disappointing. Either he thought he had it in the bag, or he knew already he had lost. Failed to inspire me. A politician who is good at soundbites but lacks real conviction.
He royally f*cked that leadership election, courted the left then flip flopped between left and right, rejected union money and failed to vote against Tory welfare cuts
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 16:23
You don't understand butt for many years Labours policies were right wing, they were a right wing party that called themselves a left wing party, lol, and the London press also loved to call them left wing when they were actually right wing the proof of the pudding is in the eating and their policies were right wing, they weren't looking to renationalise vital industries on mass, they weren't looking to greatly increase taxes or to increase the welfare state, they weren't looking to greatly increase council house building or reinstate clause 4.
The unions are also right wing, in the main it's only higher paid workers and middle class types that are union members, many gig economy workers on zero hour contracts and minimum wage workers and part time workers are not in unions, many shop assistants, cleaners, hairdressers, farm labourers etc are not in unions, unions are often for the elite types teachers, civil servants, train drivers etc.
I understand butt and I cannot lie...
I understand butt and I cannot lie...
Glad to have been able to educate you butt, don't listen to them English spin doctors and just in case you didn't know the BBC are right wing, Welsh University professor types were commissioned to look into it and their findings were reported back to the Beeb that they were right wing like the vast bulk of the English press and their quislings.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 17:04
Corbyn was wrong to surround himself with yes men and women. Created a cult that eventually destroyed him. Boris Johnson is going the same way.
I don't think it was necessarily Corbyn surrounding himself with those people. I always viewed it more that he was a useful idiot for Milne, with the strings being pulled backstage with Magic Grandpa as the facade.
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-04-20, 17:04
If the truth comes out about this governments monumental screw up of this virus handling then labour will make huge gains under starmer
Corbyn , Abbott and that crew were a liability
This leaked document will mean nothing if the sun shines on the conservatives shocking government from december 2019
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 17:04
Glad to have been able to educate you butt, don't listen to them English spin doctors and just in case you didn't know the BBC are right wing, Welsh University professor types were commissioned to look into it and their findings were reported back to the Beeb that they were right wing like the vast bulk of the English press and their quislings.
Whoooosh.
Elwood Blues
13-04-20, 17:24
If the truth comes out about this governments monumental screw up of this virus handling then labour will make huge gains under starmer
Corbyn , Abbott and that crew were a liability
This leaked document will mean nothing if the sun shines on the conservatives shocking government from december 2019
What is the truth then Sludge?
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 17:25
If the truth comes out about this governments monumental screw up of this virus handling then labour will make huge gains under starmer
Corbyn , Abbott and that crew were a liability
This leaked document will mean nothing if the sun shines on the conservatives shocking government from december 2019
That presumes there's a Labour party remaining by then.
Shadow minister and general ginger ****stick LLoyd Russell-Moyle tweeted a link to the unredacted report...
life on mars
13-04-20, 17:25
Which is interesting, given he came a distant second to Corbyn in the leadership election, clearly people felt he was too far to the right...
EDIT: And to be fair, shadow cabinet meetings would be interesting what with Shami having threatened to sue Burnham..
I think the Corbyn election was much deeper and cleverer than we know about , Burnham was not too far right he has always been a strong left sided socialist and a good MP, but someone did a number on him , as at that point he was riding a crest of a wave for his dedicated effort and commitment to the Hillsborough review .
Was a Health Secretary under Brown .
In my humble view I think Corbyn was a puppet that folk knew they could easily manipulate and control for their narrow agenda ,whereas someone like Burnham, would not be so easily controlled.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 17:25
What is the truth then Sludge?
I suspect he'll say it was a monumental screw up of this virus handling.
Just a hunch.
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 17:27
I think the Corbyn election was much deeper and cleverer than we know about , Burnham was not too far right he has always been a strong left sided socialist and a good MP, but someone did a number on him , as at that point he was riding a crest of a wave for his dedicated effort and commitment to the Hillsborough review .
Was a Health Secretary under Brown .
In my humble view I think Corbyn was a puppet that folk knew they could easily manipulate and control for their narrow agenda ,whereas someone like Burnham, would not be so easily controlled.
Think Mid Staffs also did him in.
Maybe it was overconfidence against Corbyn.
I agree with your view, Corbyn was a useful idiot for Milne to manipulate.
SLUDGE FACTORY
13-04-20, 17:30
oh dear
What is the truth then Sludge?
That on the 23rd of January matt hancock made a statement to the house of commons
In it he said that the uk was prepared for any outbreak , that the risk was low and that the NHS had the necessary capacity and equipment to deal with coronavirus
All complete and utter horseshit
tell it like it is
13-04-20, 17:41
That on the 23rd of January matt hancock made a statement to the house of commons
In it he said that the uk was prepared for any outbreak , that the risk was low and that the NHS had the necessary capacity and equipment to deal with coronavirus
All complete and utter horseshit
Based upon the information at that time, Sludge. As of that point, WHO believe China with the "no person to person transmissions" bs.
I believe this may be what they're referring to: https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015
This is good but feel it should be extended to show comparisons to countries around the world and show issue by issue as well.
How much does this report actually matter now? Anyone can see that discard too much of what Labour has been under last 5 years means they're set to repeat recent their mistakes but in slightly less scruffy suits, likewise anyone can see that continuing as they have been in past couple of years demonstrates to voters that Labour cares more about "winning the Labour party" than it does everyday issues. There is a good government in there somewhere, a government which is needed far more than current Fidesz wannabees, but it doesn't focus on that then we'll never get to see it.
life on mars
16-04-20, 21:37
I believe this may be what they're referring to: https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015
Well that suggests Labour were not right wing as the Tories .
If Labour want power they have to move to the centrecentralist ground ,if they don't then its another long wait in the politcal wilderness ,I think its fair to assume from recent elections since Thatcher the bulk of the country would like a social democratic party with a slight pinch of conservatism.
If they didn't Corbyn or Miliband would have romped home by now.
Well that suggests Labour were not right wing as the Tories .
If Labour want power they have to move to the centrecentralist ground ,if they don't then its another long wait in the politcal wilderness ,I think its fair to assume from recent elections since Thatcher the bulk of the country would like a social democratic party with a slight pinch of conservatism.
If they didn't Corbyn or Miliband would have romped home by now.
Labour was a right wing party for many years in between Foot and Corbyn, the Conservatives are extremely right wing, Plaid are a middle of the road party been fractionally left of centre for years if not forever yet they get painted as on the extremes by the right wing press who try to protray the Cons and Labour as either side of the centre line when the reality was both Cons and Labour were out on the right (as well as Lib-Dems) and the likes of Plaid and the SNP politically occupy the centre ground.
life on mars
17-04-20, 18:49
Labour was a right wing party for many years in between Foot and Corbyn, the Conservatives are extremely right wing, Plaid are a middle of the road party been fractionally left of centre for years if not forever yet they get painted as on the extremes by the right wing press who try to protray the Cons and Labour as either side of the centre line when the reality was both Cons and Labour were out on the right (as well as Lib-Dems) and the likes of Plaid and the SNP politically occupy the centre ground.
Well were all entitled to a view .
I simply don't agree with your analysis.
Although leaked, the Labour Party report seems to have got some traction and also seems to be accepted even by those politicians and journalists who were most fanatical in weaponising the antisemitism allegations to attack Corbyn - from some of the main coup leaders to Guardian/Observer columnists.
There appears to be an expectation that Starmer will have to make an example of some of the staffers who plotted against the Corbyn leadership (presumably the MPs and peers who plotted with them will avoid trouble) to balance out the cull of Corbynistas.
Misleading the leader on antisemitism allegations, slow timing investigations to embarrass him, sabotaging elements of the 2017 election campaign, suppressing islamophobia allegations against Corbyn critics, and indulging in sexist, racist and verbally violent abuse in social media chat groups must surely have consequences.
This is a real test for Starmer and Rayner. I am not confident they will pass!
Well were all entitled to a view .
I simply don't agree with your analysis.
Why do you disagree with the political compass site plotting of the parties over the years ?
Blair, Brown and Mandelson were seen not so much as being leading figures in the Labour party but leading figures in a party routinely called NuLabour as they had abandoned clause 4, officially abandoned clause 4 actually and embraced the free market.
As an aside the imposters in the Labour party are not momentum but the red Tories.
life on mars
19-04-20, 00:54
Why do you disagree with the political compass site plotting of the parties over the years ?
Blair, Brown and Mandelson were seen not so much as being leading figures in the Labour party but leading figures in a party routinely called NuLabour as they had abandoned clause 4, officially abandoned clause 4 actually and embraced the free market.
As an aside the imposters in the Labour party are not momentum but the red Tories.
That's your view not mine ,I actually don't see the Tories as the right movement a lot of folk say they are , ell certainly not in the Thatcher ,theybare more socially minded and appear to embrace a multi cultured approach to its cabinet placings and have avenues for women to come to the fore.
Blair , Mandelson were Liberal social Democrats not right wing in my book , just central in a Labour party which did get a landslide victory twice?
As for clause 4 even Hugh Gaitskell*wanted it changed as it was outdated ,not fit for purpose , and hampered Labour in the modern age, it is and was an outdated Fabian born ideilogy dating back to its creation in 1917, things do change ,so do visions , that's how parties and life evolves if you stay in the past you sadly remain there it's clear through the ballot box the country doesn't want it
Even the great John Smith wanted change Smith he brought Gordon Brown as shadow Chancellor Blair as his shadow Home Secretary.
Smith whom recognised change was needed once said
“I believe we must replace the out-of-date idea of an all-powerful nation state with a new and dynamic framework of government.”*
The new version of clause 4 bravely changed by Blair 1995 reads
“The Labour Party is a (democratic socialist party)."
"""It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect.""
I do not think (Sir Kier ) will disagree with this .
The Conservatives are deemed to be off the scale for being right wing per the political compass site.
No mention by you of Hardie, Atlee, Bevan, Foot, Tony Benn etc I see.
The perception of the Conservatives is skewed by the right wing press not wanting to protray them as being very right wing and this is exacerbated by the state broadcaster following Labour over to the right in Blair's years and being desperate to pitch themselves between Labour and the Conservatives and as a result only giving right wing views and rarely views from the middle ground as put forward by the likes of Plaid and the SNP.
The Conservatives being economically right wing is borne out by their austerity policies resulting in foodbanks and homelessness.
life on mars
19-04-20, 14:26
The Conservatives are deemed to be off the scale for being right wing per the political compass site.
No mention by you of Hardie, Atlee, Bevan, Foot, Tony Benn etc I see.
The perception of the Conservatives is skewed by the right wing press not wanting to protray them as being very right wing and this is exacerbated by the state broadcaster following Labour over to the right in Blair's years and being desperate to pitch themselves between Labour and the Conservatives and as a result only giving right wing views and rarely views from the middle ground as put forward by the likes of Plaid and the SNP.
The Conservatives being economically right wing is borne out by their austerity policies resulting in foodbanks and homelessness.
I will admit of being more centrais, t and yep I'd could never seen Benn , Foot or Corbyn delivering a political vision or choice I'd like , and I think a lot of labour voters think the same .
More centralist as in been between NuLabour and the Conservatives out on the right wing ? or more centralist as in supporting social justice policies and equality like Plaid in Wales, the SNP in Scotland and the Social Democratic and Labour party in Ireland ?
life on mars
19-04-20, 16:30
More centralist as in been between NuLabour and the Conservatives out on the right wing ? or more centralist as in supporting social justice policies and equality like Plaid in Wales, the SNP in Scotland and the Social Democratic and Labour party in Ireland ?
Just more centraist like a John Smith labour type vision with a hint of Blarism, not keen on nationalism in any shape or form
Oh ''one more heave'' Smith, the do nothing, say nothing type approach guy,
with a hint of Blairsm you say, many say that guy is a bigger Tory than Mrs Thatcher was.
Unionist parties are nationalist parties any party that believes in borders are.
life on mars
19-04-20, 19:07
Oh ''one more heave'' Smith, the do nothing, say nothing type approach guy,
with a hint of Blairsm you say, many say that guy is a bigger Tory than Mrs Thatcher was.
Unionist parties are nationalist parties any party that believes in borders are.
Gosh are you saying Smith was a bigger Tory than Thatcher or Blair ?? those quotes are very new to me .
Yes they were centralists within a Labour party , ( Smith less so than Blair ) ,yes they were modernists, but more right wing than Thatcher !!!!! maybe stretching it in my view .
As you say '('one more heave ") this is my final reply I just want to avoid repeating myself , you have my view on record I'm a centralists socialist , who thinks we should move on from the old socialist model , think new and better than Tories , as Labour since Blair has failed to attract the imagination of voters, in fact they have lost many of them, feel free to quote or bookmark my view .
Gosh are you saying Smith was a bigger Tory than Thatcher or Blair ?? those quotes are very new to me .
Yes they were centralists within a Labour party , ( Smith less so than Blair ) ,yes they were modernists, but more right wing than Thatcher !!!!! maybe stretching it in my view .
As you say '('one more heave ") this is my final reply I just want to avoid repeating myself , you have my view on record I'm a centralists socialist , who thinks we should move on from the old socialist model , think new and better than Tories , as Labour since Blair has failed to attract the imagination of voters, in fact they have lost many of them, feel free to quote or bookmark my view .
I said many think that Blair was a bigger Tory than Mrs Thatcher was, not Smith.
You say you are a centralist socialist, what is that ?, to me a Socialist is someone out on the left of the political spectrum therefore a centralist Socialist would be halfway between been being a standard left winger and being a fully fledged Communist.
It strikes me you are a centralist right winger and not on the left at all.
I have a question for you 'life on mars' who have you voted for in General Elections over the years ?
I voted Foot in 83 and Plaid ever since, Labour abandoned me and not the other way around after Foot, I have stood true (on a political graph) to my political leanings all my voting life.
Which party or parties have you voted for over the years 'life on mars' ?
life on mars
19-04-20, 22:36
I have a question for you 'life on mars' who have you voted for in General Elections over the years ?
I voted Foot in 83 and Plaid ever since, Labour abandoned me and not the other way around after Foot, I have stood true (on a political graph) to my political leanings all my voting life.
Which party or parties have you voted for over the years 'life on mars' ?
Voted Labour all my life , until Corbyn , loathed the man, I hold him responsible and his backers for destroying the party . They had a great chance to beat a poor Tory party under May , however Infighting and partly ideology destroyed that moment .
Voted Labour all my life , until Corbyn , loathed the man, I hold him responsible and his backers for destroying the party . They had a great chance to beat a poor Tory party under May , however Infighting and partly ideology destroyed that moment .
Did you vote for Foot ?
and who did you vote for if you did not vote for Corbyn ?
life on mars
20-04-20, 18:10
Did you vote for Foot ?
and who did you vote for if you did not vote for Corbyn ?
I did vote for Foot , think he even won ore seats than Corbyn , gosh they were different times , I would not repeat that now in this modern and different world , yep I was young and still tainted by Thatcher .
This time around and last I voted for L.D . , as it had a few decent ex Labour MP,s, I will admit though as with other abour voters I hovered over the Tory tick box ( just to halt the Corbyn machine ) thankfully millions of other Labour voters took that decision for me.
I did vote for Foot , think he even won ore seats than Corbyn , gosh they were different times , I would not repeat that now in this modern and different world , yep I was young and still tainted by Thatcher .
This time around and last I voted for L.D . , as it had a few decent ex Labour MP,s, I will admit though as with other abour voters I hovered over the Tory tick box ( just to halt the Corbyn machine ) thankfully millions of other Labour voters took that decision for me.
So what was wrong with Corbyn ?
the alternative leaders from the other big Westminster parties were Boris and Swinson who imo were worse.
life on mars
20-04-20, 19:18
So what was wrong with Corbyn ?
the alternative leaders from the other big Westminster parties were Boris and Swinson who imo were worse.
As I said it was a personal and bad taste choice, as I think the man is not that nice an individual , and I found the machinery and people behind him even more repellent .
Simple as that , yes more repellant than Boris or Swinson , I blame Corbynsim for destroying the party , or was that the plan??
As I said it was a personal and bad taste choice, as I think the man is not that nice an individual , and I found the machinery and people behind him even more repellent .
Simple as that , yes more repellant than Boris or Swinson , I blame Corbynsim for destroying the party , or was that the plan??
He did seem to hold the core beliefs and values of Labour, I think that the press did a disingenuous number on him and now some leaked document seems to suggest that right wing infiltrators (red Tories if you like) into the party did a number on him actively wanting him to lose, was the headlines I seen.
Heisenberg
21-04-20, 13:40
As I said it was a personal and bad taste choice, as I think the man is not that nice an individual , and I found the machinery and people behind him even more repellent .
Simple as that , yes more repellant than Boris or Swinson , I blame Corbynsim for destroying the party , or was that the plan??
Did you vote for Ed Milliband?
Who did you vote for in the last two general elections if it wasn't Corbyn?
life on mars
21-04-20, 17:55
Did you vote for Ed Milliband?
Who did you vote for in the last two general elections if it wasn't Corbyn?
Already told Trampie keep up
Heisenberg
21-04-20, 18:27
Already told Trampie keep up
You're saying that you voted for Miliband and then Farron and then Swinson? Is that correct?
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