View Full Version : Accents..
Have always fascinated me. How can a difference of a few miles make such a difference. From Thornhill over to Caerphilly is only a few miles, yet the accent is so different. And why is it the further North you travel the accent seems to become 'more Broad, if that's indeed true or the correct description. Is the UK unique in this way or do others have experiences of Accent change in other countries? I find it all very interesting and would love to know what peoples theories/knowledge of accents are, or their experiences.
Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.
the other bob wilson
29-04-20, 15:56
Have always fascinated me. How can a difference of a few miles make such a difference. From Thornhill over to Caerphilly is only a few miles, yet the accent is so different. And why is it the further North you travel the accent seems to become 'more Broad, if that's indeed true or the correct description. Is the UK unique in this way or do others have experiences of Accent change in other countries? I find it all very interesting and would love to know what peoples theories/knowledge of accents are, or their experiences.
Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.
I think it can only be that you just are influenced as to how you speak by what you hear around you when you're growing up, but that doesn't answer why people up here can recognise I'm from Cardiff as soon as I say something and yet we're only talking about twenty miles. When I worked in Newport, it was easy to tell who the locals were because they spoke so differently to me despite the fact that this was a place it would only take me twenty odd minutes to drive to if I travelled early in the morning, it doesn't make sense!
I was a student in Bangor in the 80s, the locals had an odd accent, closer to a Cardiff accent than standard North Walian, with a bit of scouse mixed in, within a mile or so across the Menai Straight it was the full on Gog accent. I did a teaching practice in a school in Holywell where the accent was differrent again, a very nasal sort of North Walian/ Manchester. One kid sounded full on scouse, when I asked why I was told he’d moved from Connah’s Quay where they all spoke like that, it’s only 2 or 3 miles down the road. I guess it very localised all over.
Interesting question.
I have lived in England most of my life - and for the longest time in Sheffield. Soon after arriving I got a job on the buses and was working with people from all sorts of backgrounds - including Pakistani Muslim Sheffielders, West Indian Sheffielders, ex-student Sheffielders and a bunch of odd people from Barnsley!
Barnsley is just 17 miles up the road, but although based on coal and ironworks (like Sheffield) it was always more insular. It had far fewer immigrants, far fewer non-native students and far fewer 'outsiders' moving in to work. Most of my mates who were born (or parents were born) in South Asia or the West Indies or the East Midlands sounded like locals to me after a while. Although 'local' was becoming different from two generations before. The lads and lasses from Barnsley sounded totally different - both accent and dialect words.
I think it has to come down to insularity and exposure to outside influences.
Jordi Culé
29-04-20, 16:05
The South Wales Valleys accent with its dulcet tones, soothing sounds and lyrical characteristics developed as a way to lull and placate the sheep.
:biggrin:
Interesting question.
I have lived in England most of my life - and for the longest time in Sheffield. Soon after arriving I got a job on the buses and was working with people from all sorts of backgrounds - including Pakistani Muslim Sheffielders, West Indian Sheffielders, ex-student Sheffielders and a bunch of odd people from Barnsley!
Barnsley is just 17 miles up the road, but although based on coal and ironworks (like Sheffield) it was always more insular. It had far fewer immigrants, far fewer non-native students and far fewer 'outsiders' moving in to work. Most of my mates who were born (or parents were born) in South Asia or the West Indies or the East Midlands sounded like locals to me after a while. Although 'local' was becoming different from two generations before. The lads and lasses from Barnsley sounded totally different - both accent and dialect words.
I think it has to come down to insularity and exposure to outside influences.
Your final sentence makes total sense and is probably the reason why accents change so much within a matter of miles. Here's one;My mate moved down to cardiff at 14, his family were from Liverpool, his mum and dad sound as scouse as they come yet he lost his accent in a couple of years, his mum and dad sound the same to me whenever i meet them. Maybe the young pick things up quicker. The Sheffield accent is very distinctive, out of all the yorkshire dialects i'd say that it sounds the most Feminine and softer.
Your final sentence makes total sense and is probably the reason why accents change so much within a matter of miles. Here's one;My mate moved down to cardiff at 14, his family were from Liverpool, his mum and dad sound as scouse as they come yet he lost his accent in a couple of years, his mum and dad sound the same to me whenever i meet them. Maybe the young pick things up quicker. The Sheffield accent is very distinctive, out of all the yorkshire dialects i'd say that it sounds the most Feminine and softer.
That may be because we call everyone 'love' - man, woman or dog!
'Err Indoors' has lived in Wales longer than she lived in England but opening her gob to a stranger often gets the 1st line, "You're not Welsh" are you.
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
29-04-20, 16:20
It's all in the use of language, isn't it? Starting 100s of years ago and then it evolved in different ways as travel increased and languages mixed. Occasionally I've switched on BBC Alba on the iplayer when they have Scottish football on and the Scots Gaelic accent seems a mix of Scottish (obviously), Scandinavian and north Welsh. With the greater influence of English over the years, perhaps elements of the accent have fallen away.
The South Wales Valleys accent with its dulcet tones, soothing sounds and lyrical characteristics developed as a way to lull and placate the sheep.
:biggrin:
The South Wales Valleys accent (especially when women are talking) always ends in a sympathetic tone, with a 'Ahhh' 'Love you' 'Never Mind' etc it's quite soothing to hear, although when they're shouting at their kids it's the stuff of tractor fuel!
Taunton Blue Genie
29-04-20, 16:26
Have always fascinated me. How can a difference of a few miles make such a difference. From Thornhill over to Caerphilly is only a few miles, yet the accent is so different. And why is it the further North you travel the accent seems to become 'more Broad, if that's indeed true or the correct description. Is the UK unique in this way or do others have experiences of Accent change in other countries? I find it all very interesting and would love to know what peoples theories/knowledge of accents are, or their experiences.
Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.
Of course there are different accents in different countries. Our accents are influenced by the language spoken around us by parents, friends, peer groups, communities, colleagues, teachers, the media etc.
As for accents becoming more broad as one goes further north, I would say that you need to look through the opposite end of the telescope i.e. Standard English was formed by the powers-that-be adopting the accents in the area of London, Cambridge and Oxford and accents from further afield are less closely related to the accents in that area. The national roll-out of a dialect that was predominant in capital cities or important regions around the world is very commonplace.
Many dialects are dying out, however. When I worked in Germany the old fellows always talked and swore at me in the local dialect (which was closer to Dutch and which prompted me to learn the latter language in my spare time) but that dialect is all but dead now as far as the younger generation is concerned over there.
cyril evans awaydays
29-04-20, 16:37
Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.
Really good question. I think all those things plus a sub-conscious adjustment to your personal circumstances and fitting in to social groups.
As an example I went from the Valleys to Swansea University and played football for them whilst there. Two or three years later I was still living in the Valleys and playing for a Welsh League team when we played Swansea Uni at Home. I still knew two or three of the lads in that team. In the showers after I had a catch-up chat with a couple. When I came back into the home dressing room the rest of the team took the piss out of me mercilessly. My accent talking to the Uni lads was significantly different to that I was using normally at the time yet I was totally oblivious to this.
I have now spent the majority of my life in the South East England. Local strangers often ask where I am from in Wales unprompted after a few minutes conversation. My kids laugh at how much broader my accent becomes when I go home or meet friends at away games.
I just live with it as a blessing and a curse now!
SLUDGE FACTORY
29-04-20, 16:49
The bradford accent is great
All the north east accents , middlesborough , sunderland , newcastle sound exactly the same to me
something that
Stoke is a strange accent , half scouse , half east midlands
Nottingham , leicester and derby accents all sound the same
Cardiff is an odd one , in the middle of mostly strong south wales accents you have something that sounds like scouse . When I was in college there was a cardiff lass on the course and everyone thought she was from liverpool . Apparently cardiff and liverpool are so similar because both had a high irish immigration to build the docks which influenced the accent .
Oxford is a funny one , like reading it's not far from london but like reading the locals sound like wurzels
The newport accent kills me , I cant stop laughing every time I hear someone from newport speak
valleys caveman
29-04-20, 16:50
Funnily enough I posted a thread on here last April about Welsh accents and how much they differ in a short distance.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php?438609-Welsh-accent&highlight=accents
Really good question. I think all those things plus a sub-conscious adjustment to your personal circumstances and fitting in to social groups.
As an example I went from the Valleys to Swansea University and played football for them whilst there. Two or three years later I was still living in the Valleys and playing for a Welsh League team when we played Swansea Uni at Home. I still knew two or three of the lads in that team. In the showers after I had a catch-up chat with a couple. When I came back into the home dressing room the rest of the team took the piss out of me mercilessly. My accent talking to the Uni lads was significantly different to that I was using normally at the time yet I was totally oblivious to this.
I have now spent the majority of my life in the South East England. Local strangers often ask where I am from in Wales unprompted after a few minutes conversation. My kids laugh at how much broader my accent becomes when I go home or meet friends at away games.
I just live with it as a blessing and a curse now!
I've always wondered if an accent is determined by physical factors, like weather, poverty, hardship etc. We all make different noises determined on how we are feeling physically. If (for the sake of argument) a person lives in an environment where the weather is harsh or extreme, then wouldn't that determine the sounds we make and how we express ourselves? I really have no idea and it's quite likely that i'm talking a load of Tosh.
The bradford accent is great
All the north east accents , middlesborough , sunderland , newcastle sound exactly the same to me
something that
Stoke is a strange accent , half scouse , half east midlands
Nottingham , leicester and derby accents all sound the same
Cardiff is an odd one , in the middle of mostly strong south wales accents you have something that sounds like scouse . When I was in college there was a cardiff lass on the course and everyone thought she was from liverpool . Apparently cardiff and liverpool are so similar because both had a high irish immigration to build the docks which influenced the accent .
Oxford is a funny one , like reading it's not far from london but like reading the locals sound like wurzels
The newport accent kills me , I cant stop laughing every time I hear someone from newport speak
Middlesboro accent is nothing like a geordie accent. In Oxford the saying is -You're either a 'Townie' or a 'gownie'
cyril evans awaydays
29-04-20, 17:03
I've always wondered if an accent is determined by physical factors, like weather, poverty, hardship etc. We all make different noises determined on how we are feeling physically. If (for the sake of argument) a person lives in an environment where the weather is harsh or extreme, then wouldn't that determine the sounds we make and how we express ourselves? I really have no idea and it's quite likely that i'm talking a load of Tosh.
I live in a village that has a station with direct links to London. Several satellite villages and communities in about a three mile radius don't so lots of people drive to the station to commute. There is such an array of accents. Some Berkshire accents are quite cockney-like and others very rural with quite a burr. Many are indistinctive but many of the commuters speak like they chewed on a full bowl of plums for breakfast so I would err towards social class and background more than geography and climate given the distance from the station.
SLUDGE FACTORY
29-04-20, 17:10
Middlesboro accent is nothing like a geordie accent. In Oxford the saying is -You're either a 'Townie' or a 'gownie'
It sounds the same to me , in fact one of the lads at college was called geordie in our block of flats even though he was from redcar , he hated it
Can you tell the difference between a pontypridd accent and port Talbot? I cant
Oxford and reading are close to london but the locals sound like they are from the west country . I used to live in headington and cowley in oxford and it was like being in bristol
In general , accents are determined by immigration , newport has that rewnd the roundabout twang on certain words because a lot of labourers from the west country and rural monmouthshire settled there and joined the seaport accent which is like cardiff , to give you cewnty
In the united states Minnesota had a lot of Scandinavian immigration hence the accent seen in the film Fargo
Jordi Culé
29-04-20, 17:11
The South Wales Valleys accent (especially when women are talking) always ends in a sympathetic tone, with a 'Ahhh' 'Love you' 'Never Mind' etc it's quite soothing to hear, although when they're shouting at their kids it's the stuff of tractor fuel!
I’m valleys myself (Taff Valley). We tend to talk very quickly and it is quite lyrical. Used to get mistaken for a Geordie quite a lot when in abroad. It’s interesting though that the Gwent valleys have a distinctive twang to their accent and it sounds a little bit harsher to my valleys ear.
Taunton Blue Genie
29-04-20, 17:16
Middlesboro accent is nothing like a geordie accent. In Oxford the saying is -You're either a 'Townie' or a 'gownie'
The two accents concerned are different but they have a degree of commonality that would not correspond if you compared either accent with other accents further afield e.g. Kent, Cornwall or Chepstow.
The two accents concerned are different but they have a degree of commonality that would not correspond if you compared either accent with other accents further afield e.g. Kent, Cornwall or Chepstow.
Yup. there are similarities, which is something else that interests me, how accents 'feather out' into near by regions.
I’m valleys myself (Taff Valley). We tend to talk very quickly and it is quite lyrical. Used to get mistaken for a Geordie quite a lot when in abroad. It’s interesting though that the Gwent valleys have a distinctive twang to their accent and it sounds a little bit harsher to my valleys ear.
I'd say that the gwent valley accent has an element of the Newport accent, The Swansea accent is a bit 'gruffy'. The Cardiff accent is influenced by generation. I know a few old boys from Grangetown and Splott and the accent the have is very different from the accents of the younger generation in the same areas. The younger generation seem to hold onto their words longer and slur at the end of a sentence, the older generation are quite direct and distinct.
Moodybluebird
29-04-20, 17:42
I too have always been fascinated by accents and love trying to pinpoint them when on hols abroad. Some can be tricky. For instance Suffolk and Bristol are both wurzely even though they're geographically over a 100 miles apart.
The Mid Wales accent is a real strange one. Have a listen to Ian Woosnam and convince yourself he's Welsh.
Accents are definitely not just a UK thing. For instance listen to a New Yorker and someone from the Deep South. Couldn't sound more different.
If you want a real challenge check out Lyse Doucet, who is a journalist reporting for the BBC occasionally. When you think you've nailed the accent, have a look at her heritage. It may surprise you.
Taunton Blue Genie
29-04-20, 18:37
Yup. there are similarities, which is something else that interests me, how accents 'feather out' into near by regions.
If you walked from Land's End to John O'Groats and spoke to local, indigenous people every few miles you probably wouldn't detect a great deal of change from one day to the next. It's more akin to a continuum and in all directions. Certain characteristics may be concentrated in certain areas, of course.
ya
I was a student in Bangor in the 80s, the locals had an odd accent, closer to a Cardiff accent than standard North Walian, with a bit of scouse mixed in, within a mile or so across the Menai Straight it was the full on Gog accent. I did a teaching practice in a school in Holywell where the accent was differrent again, a very nasal sort of North Walian/ Manchester. One kid sounded full on scouse, when I asked why I was told he’d moved from Connah’s Quay where they all spoke like that, it’s only 2 or 3 miles down the road. I guess it very localised all over.
I think it was Bangor we went to in the 90’s to watch City in that poxy Welsh cuppie thingy.
When we got out of the car, we thought we’d shot past and ended up in Liverpool. Frigging weird
Wash DC Blue
29-04-20, 19:17
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5072207]The bradford accent is great
All the north east accents , middlesborough , sunderland , newcastle sound exactly the same to me
something that
Stoke is a strange accent , half scouse , half east midlands
Nottingham , leicester and derby accents all sound the same
Cardiff is an odd one , in the middle of mostly strong south wales accents you have something that sounds like scouse . When I was in college there was a cardiff lass on the course and everyone thought she was from liverpool . Apparently cardiff and liverpool are so similar because both had a high irish immigration to build the docks which influenced the accent .
Oxford is a funny one , like reading it's not far from london but like reading the locals sound like wurzels
The newport accent kills me , I cant stop laughing every time I hear someone from newport speak[/QUOTE
How predictable 😆
SLUDGE FACTORY
29-04-20, 19:27
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5072207]The bradford accent is great
All the north east accents , middlesborough , sunderland , newcastle sound exactly the same to me
something that
Stoke is a strange accent , half scouse , half east midlands
Nottingham , leicester and derby accents all sound the same
Cardiff is an odd one , in the middle of mostly strong south wales accents you have something that sounds like scouse . When I was in college there was a cardiff lass on the course and everyone thought she was from liverpool . Apparently cardiff and liverpool are so similar because both had a high irish immigration to build the docks which influenced the accent .
Oxford is a funny one , like reading it's not far from london but like reading the locals sound like wurzels
The newport accent kills me , I cant stop laughing every time I hear someone from newport speak[/QUOTE
How predictable 😆
It's hilarious, oh hes from cardiff then about , round or town comes along and yep , its newport
Wash DC Blue
29-04-20, 19:31
The bradford accent is great
All the north east accents , middlesborough , sunderland , newcastle sound exactly the same to me
something that
Stoke is a strange accent , half scouse , half east midlands
Nottingham , leicester and derby accents all sound the same
Cardiff is an odd one , in the middle of mostly strong south wales accents you have something that sounds like scouse . When I was in college there was a cardiff lass on the course and everyone thought she was from liverpool . Apparently cardiff and liverpool are so similar because both had a high irish immigration to build the docks which influenced the accent .
Oxford is a funny one , like reading it's not far from london but like reading the locals sound like wurzels
The newport accent kills me , I cant stop laughing every time I hear someone from newport speak
[QUOTE=Wash DC Blue;5072274]
It's hilarious, oh hes from cardiff then about , round or town comes along and yep , its newport
Only difference is O’s
It’s uncannily close to Massachusetts in some sense with the emphasis on the A’s.
I get asked quite often if I lived in Boston.
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
29-04-20, 19:32
I once read an interview with a dialect coach who said the accent matches the landscape. Eg. South Wales valleys accents - up and down and sing-song. Norfolk - flat burr. Might be something in that.
ya
I think it was Bangor we went to in the 90’s to watch City in that poxy Welsh cuppie thingy.
When we got out of the car, we thought we’d shot past and ended up in Liverpool. Frigging weird
I did my teacher training in Bangor (81/82). Couldnt understand the locals as Welsh was the first language or a very softly spoken English with a gog accent. TP was in Flint which was definately English with a scouse accent. We had one girl on our course who came from a farm on the middle of nowhere and didnt speak English at all. Consequently everything had to be translated, by the bilingual lecturer, for her. I don't recall any of the Bangor locals having a scouse accent but that may well have changed by the 90s. By then I was living in the Black Country where the locals spoke an unintelligible dialect. That's dying out now although speech patterns and accent remain. Having lost my Cardiff accent, and picked up the Black Country, if I spend some time back in Cardiff friends and family comment on my "Welsh" accent picked up again.
SLUDGE FACTORY
29-04-20, 19:37
[QUOTE=SLUDGE FACTORY;5072281]
Only difference is O’s
It’s uncannily close to Massachusetts in some sense with the emphasis on the A’s.
I get asked quite often if I lived in Boston.
They say caar for car in Boston dont they
Organ Morgan.
29-04-20, 19:50
It transpired Wearside Jack, the person who sent a hoax Yorkshire Ripper tape to the police, was indeed from a small area of Sunderland that was pinpointed by an expert decades earlier. When I lived in Doncaster, South Yorkshire, everyone from that county sounded the same to my ear except for those from Barnsley who were completely different.
Taunton Blue Genie
29-04-20, 19:55
I once read an interview with a dialect coach who said the accent matches the landscape. Eg. South Wales valleys accents - up and down and sing-song. Norfolk - flat burr. Might be something in that.
Newcastle has a low elevation but a very melodic accent (partly due to the Scandinavian influence, which is also reflected in blood groups in the area). The Midlands has a far greater range of topographic elevation but the accents are far less modulated.
I once read an interview with a dialect coach who said the accent matches the landscape. Eg. South Wales valleys accents - up and down and sing-song. Norfolk - flat burr. Might be something in that.
Yeah - this book explains what you are saying
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IeNcCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=accent+matches+landscape&source=bl&ots=XB1ykGqzim&sig=ACfU3U2MDE2KbIOlKEXDPdR1fUnmYxJGtw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjTwaL4s47pAhWJUMAKHdBeCTMQ6AEwAHoECAQQA Q#v=onepage&q=accent%20matches%20landscape&f=true
Wash DC Blue
29-04-20, 19:59
They say caar for car in Boston dont they
Yeah they do.
Same for Park, Dark etc...
Taunton Blue Genie
29-04-20, 20:01
Yeah - this book explains what you are saying
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IeNcCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=accent+matches+landscape&source=bl&ots=XB1ykGqzim&sig=ACfU3U2MDE2KbIOlKEXDPdR1fUnmYxJGtw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjTwaL4s47pAhWJUMAKHdBeCTMQ6AEwAHoECAQQA Q#v=onepage&q=accent%20matches%20landscape&f=true
The author of that book states that he doesn't necessarily buy into the theory himself.
I have a mate that has been here for a couple of years from up north and he says there is a difference in someone who's from Llanrumney to Ely. There you go,i thought we all sounded the same. I have also been mistaken for a scouser a couple of times speaking to people in Ingurland.
Kind of Blue
29-04-20, 20:21
I'd say that the gwent valley accent has an element of the Newport accent
Depends which valley and how far up I’d say. Risca, Pontypool, Cwmbran, etc. definitely have an element of the Newport accent. Rhymney, Tredegar, Ebbw Vale, etc. are unmistakably South Wales valleys to my ears and are as different to a Newport accent as a Merthyr one is from Cardiff.
If you want a real challenge check out Lyse Doucet, who is a journalist reporting for the BBC occasionally. When you think you've nailed the accent, have a look at her heritage. It may surprise you.
Have often thought what her background must be when she’s on the radio!
Depends which valley and how far up I’d say. Risca, Pontypool, Cwmbran, etc. definitely have an element of the Newport accent. Rhymney, Tredegar, Ebbw Vale, etc. are unmistakably South Wales valleys to my ears and are as different to a Newport accent as a Merthyr one is from Cardiff.
Have often thought what her background must be when she’s on the radio!
My mate is from Fochriw, that's almost the end of the world. I'd say that his accent is a bit softer to that of a Rhondda accent.
Jordi Culé
30-04-20, 07:11
Depends which valley and how far up I’d say. Risca, Pontypool, Cwmbran, etc. definitely have an element of the Newport accent. Rhymney, Tredegar, Ebbw Vale, etc. are unmistakably South Wales valleys to my ears and are as different to a Newport accent as a Merthyr one is from Cardiff.
Have often thought what her background must be when she’s on the radio!
The further North or up into the deepest, darkest valleys the tone and vocals do tend to get more ‘valleys’. Rhymney Valley is an interesting contrast as Caerphilly, Llanbradach have different tones than someone from Rhymney or Fochriw for me. I don’t suppose there’s a lot of immigration into Fochriw though to influence the accent too much.
Divine Wright
30-04-20, 07:45
Depends which valley and how far up I’d say. Risca, Pontypool, Cwmbran, etc. definitely have an element of the Newport accent. Rhymney, Tredegar, Ebbw Vale, etc. are unmistakably South Wales valleys to my ears and are as different to a Newport accent as a Merthyr one is from Cardiff.
Have often thought what her background must be when she’s on the radio!
Sounds like an accent from the north of Ireland to me.....but it’s a bit of mangled one tbf.
Taunton Blue Genie
30-04-20, 07:49
It transpired Wearside Jack, the person who sent a hoax Yorkshire Ripper tape to the police, was indeed from a small area of Sunderland that was pinpointed by an expert decades earlier. When I lived in Doncaster, South Yorkshire, everyone from that county sounded the same to my ear except for those from Barnsley who were completely different.
I went to Doncaster to visit a married couple (the female possibly being from Barnsley) and when I got there she was home but he wasn't. However, when he (his name being Dave) arrived the first thing she exclaimed to him and in an animated fashion was:
"Dairve, Dairve, there were dead rat in't drive."
It made I smile (as they say in some parts of Somerset).
Divine Wright
30-04-20, 07:50
Corris in mid/north Wales have the Care-diff sound when they pronounce an A sound. It’s pretty much limited to one village/parish.
I heard a woman on 5 live once who was from Hereford and she sounded like a posh Cardiffian.
Have always fascinated me. How can a difference of a few miles make such a difference. From Thornhill over to Caerphilly is only a few miles, yet the accent is so different. And why is it the further North you travel the accent seems to become 'more Broad, if that's indeed true or the correct description. Is the UK unique in this way or do others have experiences of Accent change in other countries? I find it all very interesting and would love to know what peoples theories/knowledge of accents are, or their experiences.
Is accent determined by weather, geographic environment, industry, class etc. Interested to know peoples thoughts.
I think you can adapt your accent to fit in when you are young. I had a sales job working in Barry at the end of the 80's early 90's and my accent changed rapidly, I soon as changed and worked in Cardiff it went back to normal with just the odd twang occasionally.
I think you can adapt your accent to fit in when you are young. I had a sales job working in Barry at the end of the 80's early 90's and my accent changed rapidly, I soon as changed and worked in Cardiff it went back to normal with just the odd twang occasionally.
What is a normal Cardiff accent though? Rhiwbina is different to Splott, for example. And, is changing your accent conscious or subconscious?
Taunton Blue Genie
30-04-20, 10:48
What is a normal Cardiff accent though? Rhiwbina is different to Splott, for example. And, is changing your accent conscious or subconscious?
Could be either or both. I still have my Welsh accent after leaving Cardiff in 1977 but:
1. It is less accentuated I am told: subconcious.
2. I modified some Cardiffian vowels that sounded grating even to me when speaking words such as banana, curtains, the name of Cardiff itself and even the word 'word': conscious
I too have always been fascinated by accents and love trying to pinpoint them when on hols abroad. Some can be tricky. For instance Suffolk and Bristol are both wurzely even though they're geographically over a 100 miles apart.
The Mid Wales accent is a real strange one. Have a listen to Ian Woosnam and convince yourself he's Welsh.
Accents are definitely not just a UK thing. For instance listen to a New Yorker and someone from the Deep South. Couldn't sound more different.
If you want a real challenge check out Lyse Doucet, who is a journalist reporting for the BBC occasionally. When you think you've nailed the accent, have a look at her heritage. It may surprise you.
The same is true in Ireland, listening to 2 people one from Antrim and one from Dublin and you'd be in no doubt they were from different countries, but to a foreign ear a man from tipperary is a lot easier to understand than a man from Dublin
I've stayed in a lot of different places so may have had more exposure to thisthan some.
I learned to speak german mainly in Berlin and when I spoke it in other part f germany peaople used to call me an 'icky' berliner, because of the accent. I in gernam is Ich, normally rponounced eek, but berliners say Ick. Abviously there are other nuances i never noticed but everey german recognised the berlinerisms in my speech. yearsd later I was staying in an Hotel in Central berling whenre the had top hatter front of house managers. One morning I was waiting for something and picked up the London Times and started reading it. The Manager said, "Oh you understand English as well do you" Becuae my german accent had softened since leaving Berlin he though I was dutch. I had been some time on N West an the eiffel mountains.
I had the misfortune to live in the North East of England for a number of years and I was amazed how eays it wax to tell the difference between a novocastrian (geordie) and a Wearsider (Mackem) even though they were onyl a few miles apart. When I returned to Cardiff I was ina pub and in converstation commented on the stae of the Welsh rugby team. O chap Ididn't get on with said, "What do you know about Wales you have only been here a tomato season. It was the first time i realised i had picked up the geordie accent. I asked him where he was from and it transpired he was from goucester but said, "Nut I've lived here for years" I politely informed him I was born a mile away and asked him to retract his commnet. He left the piub and I've never seen him again. That was in 1997.
So I believe accents are noth less do with heritage and more to do with what you actually hear. On that nore I've notice inflection and pronounciation changing latesy. Listen to the lady on the new Dyson ad and hear how she pronounces the name. It sopunds odd to my ear. Ther isw one about cillit bang when the woman uses the phrse "I didn't care", its perfectly correct but the inflaction sound odd, asd if her voice is fading away at the end of the sentence. Then I began to notice it in younger people.
I lived in London for 40 years still got a strong Taff valley accent which I suppose has faded a little but certainly gets topped up when I return home.
splott parker
30-04-20, 11:48
The Cardiff accent often disregards the letter ‘t’ if it doesn’t start a word. ‘Wassa marrer?’ (What’s the matter’), the word ‘the’ is replaced with ‘sa’, Wha’ i is, rye, (What it is, right) and sometimes will use the ‘t’ to end one one but not others in the same sentence, Tha game was a right ba’lle (That game was a right battle), no ‘t’ on the end of That, as always, but it’s there on the end of right and I’ve got no letter for the sound between the a & i in battle:shrug: I’m happy with my Cardiff accent though, maybe slightly similar to others but the ‘mongrel’ in it makes it unique:thumbup:
The Cardiff accent often disregards the letter ‘t’ if it doesn’t start a word. ‘Wassa marrer?’ (What’s the matter’), the word ‘the’ is replaced with ‘sa’, Wha’ i is, rye, (What it is, right) and sometimes will use the ‘t’ to end one one but not others in the same sentence, Tha game was a right ba’lle (That game was a right battle), no ‘t’ on the end of That, as always, but it’s there on the end of right and I’ve got no letter for the sound between the a & i in battle:shrug: I’m happy with my Cardiff accent though, maybe slightly similar to others but the ‘mongrel’ in it makes it unique:thumbup:
'tidy' and 'Half tidy' :hehe:
splott parker
30-04-20, 12:12
'tidy' and 'Half tidy' :hehe:
Erm.... Half???? Surely you mean ‘Arf:hehe:
Taunton Blue Genie
30-04-20, 13:37
I've stayed in a lot of different places so may have had more exposure to thisthan some.
I learned to speak german mainly in Berlin and when I spoke it in other part f germany peaople used to call me an 'icky' berliner, because of the accent. I in gernam is Ich, normally rponounced eek, but berliners say Ick. Abviously there are other nuances i never noticed but everey german recognised the berlinerisms in my speech. yearsd later I was staying in an Hotel in Central berling whenre the had top hatter front of house managers. One morning I was waiting for something and picked up the London Times and started reading it. The Manager said, "Oh you understand English as well do you" Becuae my german accent had softened since leaving Berlin he though I was dutch. I had been some time on N West an the eiffel mountains.
I had the misfortune to live in the North East of England for a number of years and I was amazed how eays it wax to tell the difference between a novocastrian (geordie) and a Wearsider (Mackem) even though they were onyl a few miles apart. When I returned to Cardiff I was ina pub and in converstation commented on the stae of the Welsh rugby team. O chap Ididn't get on with said, "What do you know about Wales you have only been here a tomato season. It was the first time i realised i had picked up the geordie accent. I asked him where he was from and it transpired he was from goucester but said, "Nut I've lived here for years" I politely informed him I was born a mile away and asked him to retract his commnet. He left the piub and I've never seen him again. That was in 1997.
So I believe accents are noth less do with heritage and more to do with what you actually hear. On that nore I've notice inflection and pronounciation changing latesy. Listen to the lady on the new Dyson ad and hear how she pronounces the name. It sopunds odd to my ear. Ther isw one about cillit bang when the woman uses the phrse "I didn't care", its perfectly correct but the inflaction sound odd, asd if her voice is fading away at the end of the sentence. Then I began to notice it in younger people.
Most Germans do not pronounce 'ich' as 'eek'. It's more akin to 'eech' (pronouncing the 'ch' as in loch, chwarae etc). And it's the same in Hochdeutsch (Standard German).
Ich bin hier die ganze Woche :-)
3779
I feel sorry for my dad who is now in care in Dudley. Having come from Cardiff, before lockdown, I found it necessary to translate Black Country into something intelligible.
"Owamyubab?" (Ow-am-yu-bab) = she's asking "how you are". Just don't confuse it with a Brummy accent.
What is a normal Cardiff accent though? Rhiwbina is different to Splott, for example. And, is changing your accent conscious or subconscious?
True, I went back to a normal Rhiwbina Cardiff accent, I was working Coldbrook and Cadaxton areas, so it was quite a harsh Barry accent a bit like Ely Cardiff!
I think it's mostly sub consciously, but some people want to fit and consciously learn to mimic the accent of the new area?
Taunton Blue Genie
30-04-20, 13:52
I feel sorry for my dad who is now in care in Dudley. Having come from Cardiff, before lockdown, I found it necessary to translate Black Country into something intelligible.
"Owamyubab?" (Ow-am-yu-bab) = she's asking "how you are". Just don't confuse it with a Brummy accent.
Are people from Dudley classed as Yam Yams?
True, I went back to a normal Rhiwbina Cardiff accent, I was working Coldbrook and Cadaxton areas, so it was quite a harsh Barry accent a bit like Ely Cardiff!
I think it's mostly sub consciously, but some people want to fit and consciously learn to mimic the accent of the new area?
I bet you weren't as proficient as this genius..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ZffIh0-NA
Are people from Dudley classed as Yam Yams?
Dudley the town or Dudley Borough? The answer is yes....probably. The southern part of Dudley Borough (Halesowen, Norton for example) may not like the idea. Northern part, bordering Wolverhampton, almost certainly would identify as Yam Yams.
One of the stewards at Luton turned out to be from Dudley, a Wolves fan and now living in Brum. Easy to place him as Dudley from his accent. When I explained that my dad was (then) in hospital in Dudley his response was "yo'm a yam yam ay yu", assuming I was from that neck of the woods. It took some convincing that my neck of the woods was originally Cardiff, although he did appreciate my impersonation of the way a typical (older) Black Country wench spakes.
PhyllisStant
30-04-20, 15:14
Linguistic experts reckon that accents change roughly every 25 miles in the UK. Pretty interesting to work out how many unique accents that would add up to.
Taunton Blue Genie
30-04-20, 15:43
Linguistic experts reckon that accents change roughly every 25 miles in the UK. Pretty interesting to work out how many unique accents that would add up to.
You omitted the word 'noticeably' from David Crystal's statement. That word makes a difference as it was not a reference to distinct accents occupying block areas, as it were.
True, I went back to a normal Rhiwbina Cardiff accent, I was working Coldbrook and Cadaxton areas, so it was quite a harsh Barry accent a bit like Ely Cardiff!
I think it's mostly sub consciously, but some people want to fit and consciously learn to mimic the accent of the new area?
Strange how some people pick up accents easily and others don't. My dad moved to Cardiff in 1933 and has never had a Cardiff accent of any description. Similarly, my mum born in Loudon Square (Tiger Bay, arguably), moved to Splott, then Adamsdown and, with a brief spell in Nottingham, to Rhiwbina...never seems to have picked up (lost deliberately?) a harsh Cardiff accent you might expect. Her telephone voice was Hyacinth Bucket. Perhaps a deliberate attempt to distance herself from the accent of her youth as a way of social climbing. Somewhere, I have a tape cassette recording of me circa 1974 and it's pure Kairdiff. Must have been picked up from school and now largely gone.
Most Germans do not pronounce 'ich' as 'eek'. It's more akin to 'eech' (pronouncing the 'ch' as in loch, chwarae etc). And it's the same in Hochdeutsch (Standard German).
Ich bin hier die ganze Woche :-)
3779
But phonetically eech is eek or close as in my mind, and it is only my spelling of a word that doesn't actuallu exist. and I quite sure you knew exactly what i emant. Pedantry for the sake of it.
Erm.... Half???? Surely you mean ‘Arf:hehe:
:hehe: or aaarf
Divine Wright
30-04-20, 19:48
True, I went back to a normal Rhiwbina Cardiff accent, I was working Coldbrook and Cadaxton areas, so it was quite a harsh Barry accent a bit like Ely Cardiff!
I think it's mostly sub consciously, but some people want to fit and consciously learn to mimic the accent of the new area?
I knew a guy from Llansteffan (Carmarthen) who moved to Nottingham in his late twenties, spent a couple of years there and came back with a broad (what I would consider) Yorkshire-type accent. I suppose it was a Nottingham accent.
I’d ordinarily consider that type of change a little bit put on but this guy wasn’t really “bright” enough to nail the accent the way he did intentionally. So he must basically have some innate ability to pick up accents. His mother was from Rotherham and never lost her accent despite having lived in West Wales for decades. Maybe this guy was just tuned into that type of english accent.
I’ve noticed that my own accent drifts between Caerphilly,Carmarthen,Welshie English and Cardiffy (for certain words). I feel like the use of “mun” is a bit valleys , which tend to use in sentences like “fockin al mun”.
As an english teacher I get stick for saying “year” and “hear” like “ear”. The english pronounce these words like “eeh-uh” .... which is apparently the right way. I also pronounce “tour” like “two-uh” and it should sound like “tore”.
Taunton Blue Genie
30-04-20, 21:07
But phonetically eech is eek or close as in my mind, and it is only my spelling of a word that doesn't actuallu exist. and I quite sure you knew exactly what i emant. Pedantry for the sake of it.
I wasn't being pedantic, old fruit. I read your comment as the 'ch' being pronounced predominantly as a 'k' whereas it is pronounced that way in some places but it's not the predominant pronunciation. I just responded to what you wrote (rather than what is in your mind) and it's no big deal either way :-)
sneggyblubird
01-05-20, 11:17
So for the last 30yrs I've lived in Senghenydd and when I moved up a lot of locals said they had older relatives that had never been out of the valley.Apparently there was no need as you could get everything you needed in the village so I guess that would be the reason behind their particular accent until I realised that when the pit was sunk(1890's I think) a huge percentage came from west country stock so made what was a new village.Work that one out.
I'd say that the gwent valley accent has an element of the Newport accent, The Swansea accent is a bit 'gruffy'. The Cardiff accent is influenced by generation. I know a few old boys from Grangetown and Splott and the accent the have is very different from the accents of the younger generation in the same areas. The younger generation seem to hold onto their words longer and slur at the end of a sentence, the older generation are quite direct and distinct.
The Gwent Valley accent is very different from the Newport accent. Newport sounds like a harsher Cardiff accent to me, neither sound particularly Welsh.
The Gwent Valley accent is very different from the Newport accent. Newport sounds like a harsher Cardiff accent to me, neither sound particularly Welsh.
Agree, i can hear small elements of the Newport accent, probably as far as Pontypool.
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