View Full Version : How can Jersey be so far ahead of us ?
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 13:30
Ok , other than the obvious Jersey is tiny compared to the UK .
My mates are playing golf over there today , only two balls. They are allowed to visit friends a maximum of 4 people which is getting raised next week.
Pubs are reopening next week . With social distancing .
My friends painting and decorating business is back to work on Monday , all on outside jobs but they are back in work.
Surely if we were sensible , we are quite capable of keeping our distance from each other and going about our business?
light up the darkness
10-05-20, 13:33
No evidence to suggest that a lot of folk are in any way sensible if Fridays VE bbq and piss reports up are anything to go by
Do your friends live there? Or are they visiting?
No evidence to suggest that a lot of folk are in any way sensible if Fridays VE bbq and piss reports up are anything to go by
And loads of people at some Market in Hackney, picnics in parks etc. The photos that i saw were certainly not a cross section of Hackney's population. It looked like the entitled white middle class who seem to think that going out and buying artisan bread is an essential.
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 13:37
No evidence to suggest that a lot of folk are in any way sensible if Fridays VE bbq and piss reports up are anything to go by
There are some stupid people in Jersey as well.
Didn't the party goers keep their social distance?
light up the darkness
10-05-20, 13:40
There are some stupid people in Jersey as well.
Didn't the party goers keep their social distance?
There was a post on here about the A&E department at Royal Glamorgan being put at risk by so many pissed up people falling over drunk and having to go to hospital
Eric the Half a Bee
10-05-20, 13:59
There was a post on here about the A&E department at Royal Glamorgan being put at risk by so many pissed up people falling over drunk and having to go to hospital
Echoed by a couple of people I know who work in different A&E departments. Both reckon Friday night was bonkers. One, who works in Princess of Wales, said she knew of colleagues who suffered verbal abuse by some drunks and police had to invervene.
I cannot imagine how social distancing would work in pubs. A queuing system, like the supermarkets, wouldn't work - generally people display patience outside Tesco, but I can't see that level of patience happening. The first night pubs are allowed to reopen will see crowds going out. Pubs won't have the capacity to deal with that, so what happens then? People buying cans and bottles from local shops and getting pissed on the pavement?
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 14:01
Do your friends live there? Or are they visiting?
They live there.
I don't think you can travel to Jersey at the moment.
I had ferry tickets for Easter , sailing was cancelled , ferry company have offered to rebook. If I want a refund that will be a couple of months away.
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 14:04
Echoed by a couple of people I know who work in different A&E departments. Both reckon Friday night was bonkers. One, who works in Princess of Wales, said she knew of colleagues who suffered verbal abuse by some drunks and police had to invervene.
I cannot imagine how social distancing would work in pubs. A queuing system, like the supermarkets, wouldn't work - generally people display patience outside Tesco, but I can't see that level of patience happening. The first night pubs are allowed to reopen will see crowds going out. Pubs won't have the capacity to deal with that, so what happens then? People buying cans and bottles from local shops and getting pissed on the pavement?
The stupid people will always be about.
Are you saying life wont be able to get back to some kind of normality because we have to cater for stupid people?
Not everyone gets drunk out of their minds because the local pub is open.
There are some stupid people in Jersey as well.
Didn't the party goers keep their social distance?
Some probably did, these dicks however...
https://twitter.com/Arjan22G/status/1259394873180016640?s=20
Some probably did, these dicks however...
https://twitter.com/Arjan22G/status/1259394873180016640?s=20
Every jingoistic stereotype in that clip and not a black face on offer. Should be sponsered by the Sun. Isn't there just something awful about it? (apart from the spread of Covid 19)
Every jingoistic stereotype in that clip and not a black face on offer. Should be sponsered by the Sun. Isn't there just something awful about it? (apart from the spread of Covid 19)
What is the relevance of whether there are any black folks in the scene or not? The guy holding the camera may have been black for all you know.
It seems like you are trying to make something racist out of nothing.
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 14:26
And loads of people at some Market in Hackney, picnics in parks etc. The photos that i saw were certainly not a cross section of Hackney's population. It looked like the entitled white middle class who seem to think that going out and buying artisan bread is an essential.
I live in Hackney and London fields is the same most days when I run past. People are morons unfortunately. Victoria park nearby has people patrolling it, no idea why London fields doesn’t.
It’s still less than 5% of what you’d get on a normal bank holiday but why people have to be so stupid and selfish is beyond me.
Every jingoistic stereotype in that clip and not a black face on offer. Should be sponsered by the Sun. Isn't there just something awful about it? (apart from the spread of Covid 19)
That whole scene makes me :puke:
What is the relevance of whether there are any black folks in the scene or not? The guy holding the camera may have been black for all you know.
It seems like you are trying to make something racist out of nothing.
Certainly not my mate. Didn't see many ethnic groups celebrating VE day, which is a surprise don't you think considering what the Colonies did in helping to defeat Fascism. Let's face it, these kind of events are white middle class, seems like they're celebrating the Away Win.
That whole scene makes me :puke:
With you Delm.
I live in Hackney and London fields is the same most days when I run past. People are morons unfortunately. Victoria park nearby has people patrolling it, no idea why London fields doesn’t.
It’s still less than 5% of what you’d get on a normal bank holiday but why people have to be so stupid and selfish is beyond me.
In my opinion there's a sense of entitlement within some groups of the population who have a bit more disposable income.
Wales-Bales
10-05-20, 14:32
I wonder if Taunton Blue Genie has ever been to Jersey?
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 14:35
So no one knows or is interested why we are allowed to visit the garden centre but not the pub?
So no one knows or is interested why we are allowed to visit the garden centre but not the pub?
I'm interested, fcuk the garden centre lol
i wonder how many people who have no interst in buying flowers will go to a garden centre just for an excuse to get out of the house.
So no one knows or is interested why we are allowed to visit the garden centre but not the pub?
Apparently, some pubs are doing Take Away pints according to the Observer. Imagine carrying them home.
I'm interested, fcuk the garden centre lol
i wonder how many people who have no interst in buying flowers will go to a garden centre just for an excuse to get out of the house.
That would be an act of desperation. I don't go to these places when things are normal.
the other bob wilson
10-05-20, 14:44
In my opinion there's a sense of entitlement within some groups of the population who have a bit more disposable income.
:thumbup:
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 14:46
In my opinion there's a sense of entitlement within some groups of the population who have a bit more disposable income.
Must be my neighbours, there were dozens of people outside sunbathing yesterday . They have closed the path to stop people from other areas getting onto our little bit of grass. I will be honest I thought the rules must have changed ….
Entitled bastards...
Ok , other than the obvious Jersey is tiny compared to the UK .
My mates are playing golf over there today , only two balls. They are allowed to visit friends a maximum of 4 people which is getting raised next week.
Pubs are reopening next week . With social distancing .
My friends painting and decorating business is back to work on Monday , all on outside jobs but they are back in work.
Surely if we were sensible , we are quite capable of keeping our distance from each other and going about our business?
Has there been much covid there? I doubt it? Maybe that’s why? Bit like in wales, but we have to suffer on for a few more weeks yet....
the other bob wilson
10-05-20, 14:52
Those who are asking why they can't go to pubs might want to know that it is being reported that South Korea's decision to close bars and clubs in Seoul because of a new outbreak of fifty cases is being put down to the actions of one person in their twenties who visited many different clubs in one night
the other bob wilson
10-05-20, 15:00
Has there been much covid there? I doubt it? Maybe that’s why? Bit like in wales, but we have to suffer on for a few more weeks yet....
Tom Moody played cricket for Western Australia and for his country and happened to mention in a sports programme I watched yesterday that there had only been eight death from COVID in the whole state (its biggest city Perth has a population of something like two thirds the size of Wales) - we've had 8 people die of this f*cking virus in Treherbert! Wales' figures may not look bad compared to England, but they are bad, worse than most other European countries and worse, proportionately than Scotland.
life on mars
10-05-20, 15:08
Ok , other than the obvious Jersey is tiny compared to the UK .
My mates are playing golf over there today , only two balls. They are allowed to visit friends a maximum of 4 people which is getting raised next week.
Pubs are reopening next week . With social distancing .
My friends painting and decorating business is back to work on Monday , all on outside jobs but they are back in work.
Surely if we were sensible , we are quite capable of keeping our distance from each other and going about our business?
your right and I've highlighted the important bit ,in fact can't I understand why golf courses were shut down anyways
The Lone Gunman
10-05-20, 15:12
Wales' figures may not look bad compared to England, but they are bad, worse than most other European countries and worse, proportionately than Scotland.
New Zealand - population 4.8 million, deaths with Covid-19 = 21
Wales - population 3.1 million, deaths with Covid-19 = 1,111
New Zealand closed its borders to foreigners on 19th March and introduced a mandatory 14-day quarantine for any of its returning residents on 9th April.
Apparently, Boris and Co are thinking of introducing similar measures at the end of May.
Eric the Half a Bee
10-05-20, 15:15
The stupid people will always be about.
Are you saying life wont be able to get back to some kind of normality because we have to cater for stupid people?
Not everyone gets drunk out of their minds because the local pub is open.
Pretty much. I agree with your point about pubs, but at certain times of the week some of them do attract idiots. There needs to be a strategy to deal with that or we have repeats of Friday night in many places.
I am 99% certain that the reason this lockdown hasn't been relaxed sooner is because stupid people haven't followed this one properly and wouldn't follow the relaxed rules. While people wilfully neglect the rules, the more difficult it is to lower the numbers dying.
They're the ones spoiling it for the rest
Tom Moody played cricket for Western Australia and for his country and happened to mention in a sports programme I watched yesterday that there had only been eight death from COVID in the whole state (its biggest city Perth has a population of something like two thirds the size of Wales) - we've had 8 people die of this f*cking virus in Treherbert! Wales' figures may not look bad compared to England, but they are bad, worse than most other European countries and worse, proportionately than Scotland.
Think Perth is about a million people, it’s such an isolated city mind, I spent 2 years in Oz and still never made it over the nullarbor......wish I had now mind. 200 deaths in Cardiff county (600,000) almost half of which are in care homes I heard. Surely that’s a low amount and shows we have adhered to the lockdown? How low do we go before we can ease some restrictions and concentrate on track and trace?
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 15:43
Those who are asking why they can't go to pubs might want to know that it is being reported that South Korea's decision to close bars and clubs in Seoul because of a new outbreak of fifty cases is being put down to the actions of one person in their twenties who visited many different clubs in one night
I would question opening pubs myself . There would have to be a capability to keep your 2 metres from others.
South Korea did appear to have dealt with the virus particularly well originally.
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 15:45
New Zealand - population 4.8 million, deaths with Covid-19 = 21
Wales - population 3.1 million, deaths with Covid-19 = 1,111
New Zealand closed its borders to foreigners on 19th March and introduced a mandatory 14-day quarantine for any of its returning residents on 9th April.
Apparently, Boris and Co are thinking of introducing similar measures at the end of May.
Aren't New Zealand and Australia are opening their borders to each other with unrestricted travel?
I would question opening pubs myself . There would have to be a capability to keep your 2 metres from others.
South Korea did appear to have dealt with the virus particularly well originally.
Interesting about one person infecting others by going to several bars. Maybe when things do open here in about 5 years yo7 will only be allowed to visit one venue or restaurant on a night out.....
Aren't New Zealand and Australia are opening their borders to each other with unrestricted travel?
Possibly....
Apparently, some pubs are doing Take Away pints according to the Observer. Imagine carrying them home.
Supermarket essential shopping rule applies. Place bottles (or cans) in your car boot after purchase.
I would question opening pubs myself . There would have to be a capability to keep your 2 metres from others.
South Korea did appear to have dealt with the virus particularly well originally.
I read something interesting last week about Taiwan - but can't find it now (in the Guardian I think).
If I remember rightly they have not imposed a lockdown - but they have tested and traced early and thoroughly, and have required social distancing which the population have followed. They have had very few cases and very few deaths, and have managed (even with social distancing) to minimise the economic impact.
They were out of the loop earlier in the pandemic because of their relationship with China - and outside the normal WHO circulation list too I think. I don't know how exposed they were to the original outbreak but they clearly had the virus come across their border and have done something different from most others that seems to have worked. Quick and decisive action, carried out with an informed public giving their consent, and staying ahead of the curve - not playing catch up.
the other bob wilson
10-05-20, 16:37
Think Perth is about a million people, it’s such an isolated city mind, I spent 2 years in Oz and still never made it over the nullarbor......wish I had now mind. 200 deaths in Cardiff county (600,000) almost half of which are in care homes I heard. Surely that’s a low amount and shows we have adhered to the lockdown? How low do we go before we can ease some restrictions and concentrate on track and trace?
The population of Perth in 2016 was 1.985 million. Let's discount all those people in care homes in Cardiff and the Vale who have died for now then and say it's only 100 who have died - only five people have died in Norwich apparently, so twenty times that doesn't look good does it. Similarly, Wales has a lot of counties where the virus has not made too big an impact so that helps our figures, but the ones for counties like Gwent, Cardiff and the Vale and RCT are poor compared to many similar sized places in England.
light up the darkness
10-05-20, 17:23
Certainly not my mate. Didn't see many ethnic groups celebrating VE day, which is a surprise don't you think considering what the Colonies did in helping to defeat Fascism. Let's face it, these kind of events are white middle class, seems like they're celebrating the Away Win.
More than played their part imo and got nothing but a good kick in the bollocks and a reminder to keep in their place
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 17:45
My brother in law had a takeaway pint in a beer garden in London yesterday
Seen a few painter and decorators doing outside jobs.
I’ve yet to see any police trying to enforce lockdown. It’s not been a strict lockdown.
I’m neither left nor right but it does seem to me the ones screaming for lockdown and going mental at any sort of easement are the lefties who just want to bash the government and are happy to sit on their jacks for 80% not looking at the bigger picture long term.
We can’t shut down indefinitely until a vaccine is found, it may never be found. Unfortunately we are going to have to learn to live with covid and come up with solutions within each sector / industry / business to do so.
splott parker
10-05-20, 18:06
My brother in law had a takeaway pint in a beer garden in London yesterday
Seen a few painter and decorators doing outside jobs.
I’ve yet to see any police trying to enforce lockdown. It’s not been a strict lockdown.
I’m neither left nor right but it does seem to me the ones screaming for lockdown and going mental at any sort of easement are the lefties who just want to bash the government and are happy to sit on their jacks for 80% not looking at the bigger picture long term.
We can’t shut down indefinitely until a vaccine is found, it may never be found. Unfortunately we are going to have to learn to live with covid and come up with solutions within each sector / industry / business to do so.
Unfortunately there’s some due to the lack of governing of the lockdown who’ll never get the chance to ‘learn to live’ with it .
I’m neither left nor right but it does seem to me the ones screaming for lockdown and going mental at any sort of easement are the lefties who just want to bash the government and are happy to sit on their jacks for 80% not looking at the bigger picture long term
What a load of utter crap.Four of my work mates are very left wing and they can not wait to go back to full time work.
life on mars
10-05-20, 18:26
Think Perth is about a million people, it’s such an isolated city mind, I spent 2 years in Oz and still never made it over the nullarbor......wish I had now mind. 200 deaths in Cardiff county (600,000) almost half of which are in care homes I heard. Surely that’s a low amount and shows we have adhered to the lockdown? How low do we go before we can ease some restrictions and concentrate on track and trace?
Would Perth have large gatherings like the millennium stadium events , higher ethnic mix , does it suffer from high levels of obesity , have busy transport links and flowththough , which can all cause wider spread of this virus ???
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 18:36
I’m neither left nor right but it does seem to me the ones screaming for lockdown and going mental at any sort of easement are the lefties who just want to bash the government and are happy to sit on their jacks for 80% not looking at the bigger picture long term
What a load of utter crap.Four of my work mates are very left wing and they can not wait to go back to full time work.
Not utter crap at all. All the ones on here and twitter I see foaming at the mouth over the thought of easing the lockdown are lefties and Welsh natzis.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 18:39
Unfortunately there’s some due to the lack of governing of the lockdown who’ll never get the chance to ‘learn to live’ with it .
And that is unfortunate but we cant just shutdown until a vaccine is found we’ve got to come up with ways of trying to get the economy going otherwise the cure will be the worse than the virus.
People die. That’s not to sound as harsh as it does but thousands of people would have died already in the UK this year without the pandemic.
life on mars
10-05-20, 18:47
Not utter crap at all. All the ones on here and twitter I see foaming at the mouth over the thought of easing the lockdown are lefties and Welsh natzis.
Do the Welsh Nazis march and meet in large gatherings, might explain our R rating ??
And that is unfortunate but we cant just shutdown until a vaccine is found we’ve got to come up with ways of trying to get the economy going otherwise the cure will be the worse than the virus.
People die. That’s not to sound as harsh as it does but thousands of people would have died already in the UK this year without the pandemic.
Nevermind that, more people will have died due to covid than of it soon. Maybe the government realise they have to get the economy going at some point or else everything is ****ed anyway. I dread to think of the amount of missed cancer appointments, just to name one important medical issue, that’s being missed right now. We have to slowly open up at some point......
Eric the Half a Bee
10-05-20, 18:50
And that is unfortunate but we cant just shutdown until a vaccine is found we’ve got to come up with ways of trying to get the economy going otherwise the cure will be the worse than the virus.
People die. That’s not to sound as harsh as it does but thousands of people would have died already in the UK this year without the pandemic.
So which of your family and friends would you sacrifice? No-one ever seems to be able to answer that question, probably because there is no answer. It's always easier to say "people die" etc, when they're not a part of your life. Ask people who have lost loved ones to this virus whether the economy is more important. I bet you'll struggle to find many.
FWIW I thought the Prime Minister got things pretty much right tonight. There should be opportunities for people to work, providing social distancing can be observed. There should be more opportunities for outdoor recreation as long as social distancing can be observed. I thought he did well to put the ball into the hands of the public. Act like idiots, create a second wave of this virus and the lockdown will get tighter. Act responsibly, get the number of cases and deaths down, and there can be further relaxations of the lockdown. It's up to us, but up to us all. If too many people act irresponsibly, we'll all suffer as a result, both in terms of a harsher lockdown with stiffer penalties and in terms of people dying of Covid-19.
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 18:51
And that is unfortunate but we cant just shutdown until a vaccine is found we’ve got to come up with ways of trying to get the economy going otherwise the cure will be the worse than the virus.
People die. That’s not to sound as harsh as it does but thousands of people would have died already in the UK this year without the pandemic.
Thousands less than have actually died this year, as proven by the ONS figures published every Tuesday.
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 18:52
Not utter crap at all. All the ones on here and twitter I see foaming at the mouth over the thought of easing the lockdown are lefties and Welsh natzis.
I am going to do this thing again that never seems to get a response but who are you talking about specifically?
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 18:53
Nevermind that, more people will have died due to covid than of it soon. Maybe the government realise they have to get the economy going at some point or else everything is ****ed anyway. I dread to think of the amount of missed cancer appointments, just to name one important medical issue, that’s being missed right now. We have to slowly open up at some point......
What's the tally so far?
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 18:57
So which of your family and friends would you sacrifice? No-one ever seems to be able to answer that question, probably because there is no answer. It's always easier to say "people die" etc, when they're not a part of your life. Ask people who have lost loved ones to this virus whether the economy is more important. I bet you'll struggle to find many.
FWIW I thought the Prime Minister got things pretty much right tonight. There should be opportunities for people to work, providing social distancing can be observed. There should be more opportunities for outdoor recreation as long as social distancing can be observed. I thought he did well to put the ball into the hands of the public. Act like idiots, create a second wave of this virus and the lockdown will get tighter. Act responsibly, get the number of cases and deaths down, and there can be further relaxations of the lockdown. It's up to us, but up to us all. If too many people act irresponsibly, we'll all suffer as a result, both in terms of a harsher lockdown with stiffer penalties and in terms of people dying of Covid-19.
I’ve already lost an auntie to it. She was in a nursing home. Unfortunate but she didn’t have long left anyway.
Now I would rather sacrifice her than one of my children. The outlook for them was pretty bleak before this pandemic, god help what it’s going to look like if we shut down until a vaccine is found.
the other bob wilson
10-05-20, 18:59
Would Perth have large gatherings like the millennium stadium events , higher ethnic mix , does it suffer from high levels of obesity , have busy transport links and flowththough , which can all cause wider spread of this virus ???
I live in a village where the population is just under 6,000. Perth has a population of just short of 2 million and, when you factor in the half a million or so others in Western Australia, it's pretty certain that less people have died from Covid in Perth than in my village. Why is that happening?
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 19:01
Do the Welsh Nazis march and meet in large gatherings, might explain our R rating ??
You can usually find them going absolutely mental at anyone who doesn’t share there ideal of an independent Wales
Eric the Half a Bee
10-05-20, 19:02
Thousands less than have actually died this year, as proven by the ONS figures published every Tuesday.
I'm looking at the latest ONS spreadsheet. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglan dandwales
According to that, in the first 4 months of the year, 229,308 people died in England and Wales this year. As an average over the previous 5 years, 195,648 died.
Up to the 3rd week of March, the death rate in England and Wales was over 5,000 less than the average of 2015-19. Over the last week of March and the whole of April, there have been 90,392 deaths this year but only an average of 51,910 over the same period in 2015-19. For those 5 weeks the number of deaths compared to the average has risen by aroudn 1,000, 6,000, 8,000, 12,000 and 11,500.
That's from their own spreadsheet.
What's the tally so far?
Don’t know, I guess we will find out in a year or so when folks are terminal or had heart attacks etc...
Eric the Half a Bee
10-05-20, 19:05
I’ve already lost an auntie to it. She was in a nursing home. Unfortunate but she didn’t have long left anyway.
Now I would rather sacrifice her than one of my children. The outlook for them was pretty bleak before this pandemic, god help what it’s going to look like if we shut down until a vaccine is found.
Sorry to hear about that.
Organ Morgan.
10-05-20, 19:14
Thousands less than have actually died this year, as proven by the ONS figures published every Tuesday.
Interesting remarks. I wish the ONS would compile and publish stats for those Britons who have died of COVID-19 rather than 'involving' COVID-19.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26#coviddeaths
Deaths involving COVID-19
Our latest data on weekly deaths registrations include deaths involving COVID-19. Up to 24 April, there were 27,356 deaths registered in England and Wales involving COVID-19 (15,964 men and 11,392 women).
The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (24,009 out of 27,356), with 43% (10,410) of these occurring in the over-85 age group.
Our figures are based on deaths registered in the stated period and include all deaths where “COVID-19” was mentioned on death certificates. They differ from those published by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC), which are based on deaths occurring to date among those who have tested positive for COVID-19.
DHSC figures are valuable because they are available quickly and give an indication of what is happening daily. Our numbers are slower to prepare because they have to be certified by a doctor, registered and processed. But once ready, they are the most comprehensive.
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 19:17
Interesting remarks. I wish the ONS would compile and publish stats for those Britons who have died of COVID-19 rather than 'involving' COVID-19.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26#coviddeaths
Deaths involving COVID-19
Our latest data on weekly deaths registrations include deaths involving COVID-19. Up to 24 April, there were 27,356 deaths registered in England and Wales involving COVID-19 (15,964 men and 11,392 women).
The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (24,009 out of 27,356), with 43% (10,410) of these occurring in the over-85 age group.
Our figures are based on deaths registered in the stated period and include all deaths where “COVID-19” was mentioned on death certificates. They differ from those published by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC), which are based on deaths occurring to date among those who have tested positive for COVID-19.
DHSC figures are valuable because they are available quickly and give an indication of what is happening daily. Our numbers are slower to prepare because they have to be certified by a doctor, registered and processed. But once ready, they are the most comprehensive.
If you don't like/trust what is being put on death certificates then don't even read the covid-19 deaths and instead just look at excess deaths.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 19:22
Sorry to hear about that.
No need to be. She was 88 and had no life. It was a blessing in some respects. Another auntie who died at 92 last year spent 5 years bed ridden. That’s no life it’s just a waiting room for death. In some ways we are glad the one who died of covid didn’t have to suffer the same fate.
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 19:33
No need to be. She was 88 and had no life. It was a blessing in some respects. Another auntie who died at 92 last year spent 5 years bed ridden. That’s no life it’s just a waiting room for death. In some ways we are glad the one who died of covid didn’t have to suffer the same fate.
Not everyone who’s died of covid is like that though, I lost a 70 year old relative last week, no visitors while in hospital and none of us allowed at their funeral.
My mates dad died of it and he was 60 and only 4 of them can go to his funeral.
A lot more people died of it than ever needed to, look at the excess deaths compared to normal. And along with that it’s a pretty horrible and lonely way to go.
I think the attitude of people die anyway is pretty shortsighted tbh.
cyril evans awaydays
10-05-20, 19:33
Interesting remarks. I wish the ONS would compile and publish stats for those Britons who have died of COVID-19 rather than 'involving' COVID-19.
What would happen if your wish came true?
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 19:34
What would happen if your wish came true?
I don’t see how it makes a difference anyway, we’ve had a load more extra deaths than usual how does it matter if covid was the direct or indirect cause?
Wales-Bales
10-05-20, 19:38
I don’t see how it makes a difference anyway, we’ve had a load more extra deaths than usual how does it matter if covid was the direct or indirect cause?
Do you know how many above the five year average?
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 19:42
Do you know how many above the five year average?
Around 120% a day at its peak wasn’t it.
Organ Morgan.
10-05-20, 19:46
I’ve already lost an auntie to it. She was in a nursing home. Unfortunate but she didn’t have long left anyway.
Now I would rather sacrifice her than one of my children. The outlook for them was pretty bleak before this pandemic, god help what it’s going to look like if we shut down until a vaccine is found.
Your concerns are thankfully shared by just a small minority.
The rest of us are prepared to risk the UK economy falling to bits, joblessness numbers hitting and staying at ten million or more and surviving a subsistence living provided by government handouts in order to minimise deaths involving COVID-19.
You and those like you will simply have to adapt to greatly reduced expectations because the welfare of 0.1% of the population must always outweigh those of the rest.
It always bother me when people use a particular number of years to show and average. Being a suspicious bastard I always wonder if the didn't do longer because it would tend to disprove what they are trying to prove. Of course it is not always so. Similarly when they show graphs and the reverences are skewed to make the rise or fall seem greater or less again depending on what they are trying to prove.
It reminds me of the university who are always talking about global warming putting up information that was later proved to have been altered to rpove their argument. If a university will do it who else will? (University of East Anglia??)
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 19:54
Your concerns are thankfully shared by just a small minority.
The rest of us are prepared to risk the UK economy falling to bits, joblessness numbers hitting and staying at ten million or more and surviving a subsistence living provided by government handouts in order to minimise deaths involving COVID-19.
You and those like you will simply have to adapt to greatly reduced expectations because the welfare of 0.1% of the population must always outweigh those of the rest.
We are all worried about that though, that’s why people who can’t work from home do need to get back to work. Shame the restrictions didn’t come in sooner and we wouldn’t have even had to push it this far.
If we hadn’t had the restrictions we’d had we would have had a load more deaths and the economy would have suffered a lot more. I don’t understand how you still don’t understand that.
No need to be. She was 88 and had no life. It was a blessing in some respects. Another auntie who died at 92 last year spent 5 years bed ridden. That’s no life it’s just a waiting room for death. In some ways we are glad the one who died of covid didn’t have to suffer the same fate.
My mother who is in her 80’s is far more concerned about the future of her grand children than what might happen or not happen to her, she’s had her life she says and wants things to be good for them. If I go I go.....as she often says
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 19:54
It always bother me when people use a particular number of years to show and average. Being a suspicious bastard I always wonder if the didn't do longer because it would tend to disprove what they are trying to prove. Of course it is not always so. Similarly when they show graphs and the reverences are skewed to make the rise or fall seem greater or less again depending on what they are trying to prove.
It reminds me of the university who are always talking about global warming putting up information that was later proved to have been altered to rpove their argument. If a university will do it who else will? (University of East Anglia??)
Disprove this then.
Disprove this then.
I'm not saying it does or doesn't or if there has been any massaging, I just always feel skeptical of statistics, a bit like opinion polls, you can make them prove or disprove whatever you want, depending on how you use them. Why are you making it a challenge, being confrontational again? Can't you bear anyone questioning your superior intelligence again?
You are a waste of it aren't you?
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 20:06
I'm not saying it does or doesn't or if there has been any massaging, I just always feel skeptical of statistics, a bit like opinion polls, you can make them prove or disprove whatever you want, depending on how you use them. Why are you making it a challenge, being confrontational again? Can't you bear anyone questioning your superior intelligence again?
You are a waste of it aren't you?
How is that confrontational? I quoted the statistics and you said you didn’t always believe them, so I asked you a question.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 20:14
How is that confrontational? I quoted the statistics and you said you didn’t always believe them, so I asked you a question.
In a condescending confrontational tone
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 20:15
In a condescending confrontational tone
Jesus you lot are sensitive
How is that confrontational? I quoted the statistics and you said you didn’t always believe them, so I asked you a question.
You didn't you said "Disprove this then." That's not a question it a demand - confrontational, and as usual you chose to ignore what my port was actually about which was that I have an innate skepticism about these things. I did not say the figures were wrong or manipulated.
I said I tend to question them generally, not that I do not believe the ones in question here.
and notice I haven't deliberately miswritten what you actually said, as you normally do.
Waste!!
It reminds me of the university who are always talking about global warming putting up information that was later proved to have been altered to rpove their argument. If a university will do it who else will? (University of East Anglia??)
Just on this point, I believe they were exonerated weren't they following several enquiries?
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 20:20
A question for everyone who thinks the measures have been a waste of time:
Do you not think we’ve had a lot more deaths than usual?
Do you not think these deaths are directly or indirectly related to covid-19?
Do you not think everyone is worried about the effects on the economy?
Do you not think we would have had a lot more deaths if we hadn’t had those measures in place?
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 20:23
Not everyone who’s died of covid is like that though, I lost a 70 year old relative last week, no visitors while in hospital and none of us allowed at their funeral.
My mates dad died of it and he was 60 and only 4 of them can go to his funeral.
A lot more people died of it than ever needed to, look at the excess deaths compared to normal. And along with that it’s a pretty horrible and lonely way to go.
I think the attitude of people die anyway is pretty shortsighted tbh.
Yes everyone is in the same boat with regards funerals, she didn’t have any children her nieces and nephews were like her children but neither her brother or her any of her nieces or nephews could attend the funeral because they are in the vulnerable category, so my missus had to organise it all and only her and her sister could attend. it’s shitty but life must go on.
I’m not in anyway saying some of these deaths could have been avoided and when the dust has settled hopefully there will be a proper investigation, all I am saying is we cannot just lockdown until there is a vaccine. There might never be one. Its unfortunate but more people are going to die, that’s a fact, and we are going to have to learn to live with it.
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 20:24
You didn't you said "Disprove this then." That's not a question it a demand - confrontational, and as usual you chose to ignore what my port was actually about which was that I have an innate skepticism about these things. I did not say the figures were wrong or manipulated.
I said I tend to question them generally, not that I do not believe the ones in question here.
and notice I haven't deliberately miswritten what you actually said, as you normally do.
Waste!!
I didn’t mean to come across as confrontational. I’m just a bit annoyed about a lot of the attitudes towards this still. Apologies if it came across as a pop.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 20:25
A question for everyone who thinks the measures have been a waste of time:
Do you not think we’ve had a lot more deaths than usual?
Do you not think these deaths are directly or indirectly related to covid-19?
Do you not think everyone is worried about the effects on the economy?
Do you not think we would have had a lot more deaths if we hadn’t had those measures in place?
I don’t think the measures have been a waste of time I just think we cannot continue paying people 80% to sit on their arse doing jack shit. I hope it’s not extended to end of July and that there is a different furlough strategy from July 1st and not a free for all that it is now.
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 20:26
Yes everyone is in the same boat with regards funerals, she didn’t have any children her nieces and nephews were like her children but neither her brother or her any of her nieces or nephews could attend the funeral because they are in the vulnerable category, so my missus had to organise it all and only her and her sister could attend. it’s shitty but life must go on.
I’m not in anyway saying some of these deaths could have been avoided and when the dust has settled hopefully there will be a proper investigation, all I am saying is we cannot just lockdown until there is a vaccine. There might never be one. Its unfortunate but more people are going to die, that’s a fact, and we are going to have to learn to live with it.
I agree we can’t lockdown until there’s a vaccine but we can behave and manage the situation in an intelligent way to limit deaths.
I want to get back to normal as much as anyone else, I just think we’ve been asked to do something pretty simple that could save a lot of lives.
Just on this point, I believe they were exonerated weren't they following several enquiries?
There was one particular graph they used to show a huge plateau of global warming since the mid fifties and took it back over 800 years showing everything level, conveniently omitting the big spike in temperatures in the dark ages (not as high but high enough) because it didn't suit their argument.
When questioned they said they left it out because it wasn't relevant to the argument. But I'm sure they found a way to wriggle out of it.
The thing is because of that it led people to question and disbelieve all the other things they did that were probably for the most part quite accurate.
I didn’t mean to come across as confrontational. I’m just a bit annoyed about a lot of the attitudes towards this still. Apologies if it came across as a pop.
Every time you reply to my posts its a "pop"
I agree we can’t lockdown until there’s a vaccine but we can behave and manage the situation in an intelligent way to limit deaths.
I want to get back to normal as much as anyone else, I just think we’ve been asked to do something pretty simple that could save a lot of lives.
I don’t think we can all behave though, that’s the issue. There are some amazingly stupid people living here.
Summed up well
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8290353/ALEX-BRUMMER-Madness-45s-work-economy-burns.html#comments
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 20:38
I agree we can’t lockdown until there’s a vaccine but we can behave and manage the situation in an intelligent way to limit deaths.
I want to get back to normal as much as anyone else, I just think we’ve been asked to do something pretty simple that could save a lot of lives.
I agree and most of us are doing so. I go to work every day there’s only 2 of us in the office instead of 12. 8 on furlough, the other 2 working from home.
There’s probably going to be 4 made redundant and the rest working from home for a while yet and there’s plans in place to put up Perspex between each work station and ppe when everyone’s back in the office, whenever that may be.
There’s going to be a new normal we are not going to be able to go back to the old normal for many months, possibly years, but there’s got to be some middle ground somewhere and restrictions relaxed. Just living in fear of a second spike being worst than the first, in my opinion, will do irreversible damage to the economy.
Maybe because people have been working at home they are not seeing the harsh reality of it but I’m going into a factory that’s operating at around 25% of its capacity / usual sale, this isn’t sustainable but at least we have some money coming in to go towards overheads. There’s some industries got 0% coming in with no light at the end of the tunnel. It really is frightening.
There was one particular graph they used to show a huge plateau of global warming since the mid fifties and took it back over 800 years showing everything level, conveniently omitting the big spike in temperatures in the dark ages (not as high but high enough) because it didn't suit their argument.
When questioned they said they left it out because it wasn't relevant to the argument. But I'm sure they found a way to wriggle out of it.
The thing is because of that it led people to question and disbelieve all the other things they did that were probably for the most part quite accurate.
I'm not sure that's really an accurate summary.
But anyway, it's a different topic altogether and there's plenty of info. available about it online for those interested. I saw a documentary about it a a few months ago which was why I initially responded. Moving on.
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 20:40
Couldn’t agree more JR :thumbup:
It’s a difficult situation, hopefully the new measures work as intended.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 20:41
I don’t think we can all behave though, that’s the issue. There are some amazingly stupid people living here.
There are but they are the loud minority. The ones that get reported on. I think the vast majority are observing the rules.
Although, talk of lifting the lockdown the week leading up to a bank holiday weekend was utterly stupid.
Organ Morgan.
10-05-20, 20:41
What would happen if your wish came true?
I suspect the primary reason for deaths from a range of other diseases would rise while those attributable to COVID-19 would plummet.
I think that's what the Italian MP I posted a video of was saying about the number of deaths in his country; that they are grossly exaggerated.
The Lone Gunman
10-05-20, 20:41
There’s going to be a new normal we are not going to be able to go back to the old normal for many months, possibly years......
Alternatively, we may be able to go back to the old normal within a couple of months, or by the end of the year.
Nobody knows.
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 20:43
There was one particular graph they used to show a huge plateau of global warming since the mid fifties and took it back over 800 years showing everything level, conveniently omitting the big spike in temperatures in the dark ages (not as high but high enough) because it didn't suit their argument.
When questioned they said they left it out because it wasn't relevant to the argument. But I'm sure they found a way to wriggle out of it.
The thing is because of that it led people to question and disbelieve all the other things they did that were probably for the most part quite accurate.
Shouldn't the takeaway be to look into the data yourself rather than just never trust graphs again.
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 20:45
Every time you reply to my posts its a "pop"
I disagree with a lot of what you post in fairness, It’s not supposed to be personal.
I don’t think the measures have been a waste of time I just think we cannot continue paying people 80% to sit on their arse doing jack shit. I hope it’s not extended to end of July and that there is a different furlough strategy from July 1st and not a free for all that it is now.
I can't see the Government retaining this scheme for much longer.
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 20:45
I don’t think the measures have been a waste of time I just think we cannot continue paying people 80% to sit on their arse doing jack shit. I hope it’s not extended to end of July and that there is a different furlough strategy from July 1st and not a free for all that it is now.
We should never have paid people 80% up to 2.5k to start with, we should have paid what it costs to live. If you lose your job in a few months time you will be on the peanuts of universal credit, it is hypocrisy and unfairness at its finest.
Shouldn't the takeaway be to look into the data yourself rather than just never trust graphs again.
That would be too difficult wouldn't it. It is ironic that the University have been accused of "omitting data to suit their argument", but xsnaggle is also omitting facts to tailor the story to suit his own argument.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 20:50
I can't see the Government retaining this scheme for much longer.
It’s not sustainable. Unfortunately a lot of scrupulous business men are more savvy than those in charge of government. A Tory government being taken by surprise at the amount of greedy businesses claiming furlough is somewhat ironic.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 20:52
We should never have paid people 80% up to 2.5k to start with, we should have paid what it costs to live. If you lose your job in a few months time you will be on the peanuts of universal credit, it is hypocrisy and unfairness at its finest.
Certainly not for 3 or 4 months. They bowed to pressure from business to extend it to 80% for June and I think they should have considered sliding it downwards from June not July.
Organ Morgan.
10-05-20, 20:55
The scheme is sustainable because the government, via the BoE, can create an infinite number of new pounds to spend on whatever it chooses. £10B per month to keep 6 million furloughed workers placated is peanuts.
Shouldn't the takeaway be to look into the data yourself rather than just never trust graphs again.
I'm not interested enough to look into the data myself but if someone posts a graph on here obviously I see it. The first thing I tend to look at though are the parameters of the graph, as in how close or apart the lines may be and such like, and then the time line. Just my doubting mind, nothing to get het up about.
I've used graphs enough myself to prove my point to know how they can be manipulated, just like any other statistic.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 20:55
Alternatively, we may be able to go back to the old normal within a couple of months, or by the end of the year.
Nobody knows.
Absolutely, nobody knows, so I dont think we can continue to sit around waiting, there has to be some plan, which although the messages are getting a little bit confusing amongst the different UK countries it seems we are going to try and ease out of it soon.
I don’t see us going back to normal in a couple of months though. I think Summer 2020 is effectively cancelled.
It’s not sustainable. Unfortunately a lot of scrupulous business men are more savvy than those in charge of government. A Tory government being taken by surprise at the amount of greedy businesses claiming furlough is somewhat ironic.
:hehe:
I would be seriously concerned if I was on furlough, I think people on furlough need to be aware that some companies are operating fairly well without their efforts. The ones I talk to think it's "great", "Full wage and I'm sat in the garden" type comments. I don't want to see people struggle, but this is the same Government that used to be disparaging against people on benefits.
Wales-Bales
10-05-20, 21:00
It always bother me when people use a particular number of years to show and average. Being a suspicious bastard I always wonder if the didn't do longer because it would tend to disprove what they are trying to prove. Of course it is not always so. Similarly when they show graphs and the reverences are skewed to make the rise or fall seem greater or less again depending on what they are trying to prove.
It reminds me of the university who are always talking about global warming putting up information that was later proved to have been altered to rpove their argument. If a university will do it who else will? (University of East Anglia??)
The 5 year average is a standard data point used by the ONS for comparison purposes and government policy planning.
Absolutely, nobody knows, so I dont think we can continue to sit around waiting, there has to be some plan, which although the messages are getting a little bit confusing amongst the different UK countries it seems we are going to try and ease out of it soon.
I don’t see us going back to normal in a couple of months though. I think Summer 2020 is effectively cancelled.
It was clearly meant to be a unified plan amongst the uk nations but Drakeford and sturgeon just had to rub their bollocks in bo jos face coz he’s a Tory after all.....just marking their territory out
It was clearly meant to be a unified plan amongst the uk nations but Drakeford and sturgeon just had to rub their bollocks in bo jos face coz he’s a Tory after all.....just marking their territory out
Really? Which message do you think is clearer tonight? The "Stay Alert" one, or the "Stay Home" one?
Really? Which message do you think is clearer tonight? The "Stay Alert" one, or the "Stay Home" one?
It doesn't really matter does it?
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 21:15
Certainly not for 3 or 4 months. They bowed to pressure from business to extend it to 80% for June and I think they should have considered sliding it downwards from June not July.
The 2.5k max should have been slid down not the %
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 21:16
:hehe:
I would be seriously concerned if I was on furlough, I think people on furlough need to be aware that some companies are operating fairly well without their efforts. The ones I talk to think it's "great", "Full wage and I'm sat in the garden" type comments. I don't want to see people struggle, but this is the same Government that used to be disparaging against people on benefits.
There was full scale rows up with us. We’ve got printers on over 50k a year so they were kicking off because they didn’t want to be furloughed, so it was a case of “Why an I furloughed and he isn’t??” then at the other end of the scale you had people going ape shit because they weren’t furloughed, totally oblivious to the bigger picture.
Then one guy who was furloughed got asked to come back on after 3 weeks as the company had furloughed too many and needed some back and he was going mental as he was only get 15 a day more take home pay than if he was sitting in the house and by time take my lunch out of it, coffees. Etc.etc its not worth me working :hehe:
Really? Which message do you think is clearer tonight? The "Stay Alert" one, or the "Stay Home" one?
Stay home is obviously clearer but people are going to have to come out to play at some point, when they are allowed out, bless them, they will need to remember how to behave, or stay alert as it’s called. I’ve seen some insane acts of apparent social distancing in tescos recently, maybe people are so thick they need lessons, a bit like a driving test? Another dumb bitch walking through b&q coughing away down the middle aisle, clearly she wasn’t there for anything essential and she got the dogs abuse for it too. It will be 10 weeks at the end of this month, are we China?
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 21:17
:hehe:
I would be seriously concerned if I was on furlough, I think people on furlough need to be aware that some companies are operating fairly well without their efforts. The ones I talk to think it's "great", "Full wage and I'm sat in the garden" type comments. I don't want to see people struggle, but this is the same Government that used to be disparaging against people on benefits.
And will be again in 3..2..1...
Repeat after me...there is no magic money tree...
It doesn't really matter does it?
If someone is bringing up that the plan is not "unified", and claiming the Scottish and Welsh divergence is the result of spitefulness, then I think it is completely fair to ask which message is clearer. So, unfortunately, it does matter.
There is only one message, stay at home!!!
There is only one message, stay at home!!!
That's not what Boris Johnson was saying tonight was it?
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 21:21
The 2.5k max should have been slid down not the %
2.5k max would slide with percentage
So 60% of 30k a year max
There was full scale rows up with us. We’ve got printers on over 50k a year so they were kicking off because they didn’t want to be furloughed, so it was a case of “Why an I furloughed and he isn’t??” then at the other end of the scale you had people going ape shit because they weren’t furloughed, totally oblivious to the bigger picture.
Then one guy who was furloughed got asked to come back on after 3 weeks as the company had furloughed too many and needed some back and he was going mental as he was only get 15 a day more take home pay than if he was sitting in the house and by time take my lunch out of it, coffees. Etc.etc its not worth me working :hehe:
:hehe:
I've not been furloughed, but wages have been cut back as hours are cut back. Working from home, though, and I worked 40 hours last week including the Friday. If I don't get the work done (and there is the same amount of it as before), I will have to justify what I am doing in my supposed 25 hours a week. But, all things considered, this situation is more preferable than being furloughed. Hope I am wrong, but I can see a lot of these workers being made redundant when the Government money stops coming in.
The problem on this board and with certain politicians is they want it both ways. the rule in wales is Stay home, it is not open for debate.
But when it suits them they blame the Westminster government and when it suits a different argument the say we are devolved and what The Welsh government says is what matters
On the welsh news this evening you had a BBC so called expert saying The PM was wrong to say school could open from 1 June, but he never said that, its just that what he actually said didn't suit their narrative. What he actually said was that they were in talks and looking at data for schools reopening but it will not happen before 1 June. A totally different thing. The talker also chose to completely ignore the fact that as these things are devolved so what the PM said is of no consequence to what happens in wales.
Behind him came a welsh politician saying the Wales can lift the lockdown anytime and in any way they like without any reference to Westminster because the decision process was devolved and in our own hands. In his next breath he the bemoaned the fact that the lockdown had been started late blaming the Westminster government, conveniently avoiding the fact that the decision is devolved and so the welsh government could have done it anyway.
Double standards all the time! But you can't have it both ways.
It doesn't matter which side of the argument you stand on, you cannot have it this way when it suits you and another way when it doesn't.
:hehe:
I've not been furloughed, but wages have been cut back as hours are cut back. Working from home, though, and I worked 40 hours last week including the Friday. If I don't get the work done (and there is the same amount of it as before), I will have to justify what I am doing in my supposed 25 hours a week. But, all things considered, this situation is more preferable than being furloughed. Hope I am wrong, but I can see a lot of these workers being made redundant when the Government money stops coming in.
Yep as soon as they start kicking off about going back to work when the freebie runs out
That's not what Boris Johnson was saying tonight was it?
Read my post above. The welsh government keeps telling us what he says on this matter has nothing to do with Wales. But they'll still blame him when it fcuks up.
The problem on this board and with certain politicians is they want it both ways. the rule in wales is Stay home, it is not open for debate.
But when it suits them they blame the Westminster government and when i wet suits a different argument the say we are devolved and what The Welsh government says is what matters
On the welsh news this evening you had a BBC so called expert saying The PM was wrong to say school could open from 1 June, but he never said that, its just that what he actually said didn't suit their narrative. What he actually said was that they were in talks and looking at data for schools reopening but it will not happen before 1 June. A totally different thing. The talker also chose to completely ignore the fact that as these things are devolved so what the PM said is of no consequence to what happens in wales.
Behind him came a welsh politician saying the Wales can lift the lockdown anytime and in any way they like without any reference to Westminster because the decision process was devolved and in our own hands. In his next breath he the bemoaned the fact that the lockdown had been started late blaming the Westminster government, conveniently avoiding the fact that the decision is devolved and so the welsh government could have done it anyway.
Double standards all the time! But you can't have it both ways.
It doesn't matter which side of the argument you stand on, you cannot have it this way when it suits you and another way when it doesn't.
They all wanted to go and watch wales v Scotland remember, when forced to cancel they then threw the toys out the pram and blamed Westminster, comedy gold......
Croesy Blue
10-05-20, 21:43
:hehe:
I would be seriously concerned if I was on furlough, I think people on furlough need to be aware that some companies are operating fairly well without their efforts. The ones I talk to think it's "great", "Full wage and I'm sat in the garden" type comments. I don't want to see people struggle, but this is the same Government that used to be disparaging against people on benefits.
Furlough is one step from redundancy, I’m surprised people can’t see that.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 21:45
:hehe:
I've not been furloughed, but wages have been cut back as hours are cut back. Working from home, though, and I worked 40 hours last week including the Friday. If I don't get the work done (and there is the same amount of it as before), I will have to justify what I am doing in my supposed 25 hours a week. But, all things considered, this situation is more preferable than being furloughed. Hope I am wrong, but I can see a lot of these workers being made redundant when the Government money stops coming in.
We took a 20% temporary pay cut before furlough and were expected to do less hours from home but I was doing more as I just couldn’t get to grips with working from home. Not with the kids off school.
Then when they furloughed the staff we were back up to 100% and I’m back in the office. I’ve done a fair bit of overtime which don’t get paid for but as you say rather that than be furloughed.
I was nearly furloughed for being too vocal about the owner taking the piss with the amount of people furloughed and the strain it’s leaving on the rest of us, but without blowing my own trumpet it was a hollow offer they know they would be cutting their nose off to spite their face if they furloughed me.
rudy gestede
10-05-20, 21:46
The first thing I tend to look at though are the parameters of the graph, as in how close or apart the lines may be and such like, and then the time line.
This might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Like it was written by someone who has not looked at a graph since GCSE maths.
Organ Morgan.
10-05-20, 21:47
Furlough money is a forerunner to Universal Basic Income, or people's QE. Similar thing with handing £20 per week extra to Universal Credit claimants for the next year. The government is wary of a restless population.
Eric Cartman
10-05-20, 21:49
2.5k max would slide with percentage
So 60% of 30k a year max
Why does someone on 30k need more free money to live than someone on 20k? Why does someone on 30k deserve more money for sitting on their arse at home? In a few months someone doing to feck all will be on 90 quid a week.
This is one of the reasons why framing the scheme around maintaining jobs was a mistake. The other major reason is that firms are still going to lay people off at the end of it.
Furlough is one step from redundancy, I’m surprised people can’t see that.
Some companies are operating fine (albeit with lower production) without the furloughed workers. Those companies that are furloughing all their staff are likely to be returning as a smaller concern. The bigger companies will be thinking "How do we automate this so that, the next time a pandemic happens, we can carry on as normal". There will be reassessments in all companies, I think. "Efficiencies" is a word I expect to hear a lot of.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 21:51
Furlough is one step from redundancy, I’m surprised people can’t see that.
A guy lives opposite me works on the shop floor. He wasn’t furloughed as he’s one of our best operators but played holy hell to be furloughed and was granted his wish.
After 7 weeks in the house is tune is starting to change.
“Is it picking up?”
“Not really”
“Can see redundancies now”
“No shit”
“You’ll be alright they’ll look after you”
“Well I should hope so I am going to work every day”
We took a 20% temporary pay cut before furlough and were expected to do less hours from home but I was doing more as I just couldn’t get to grips with working from home. Not with the kids off school.
Then when they furloughed the staff we were back up to 100% and I’m back in the office. I’ve done a fair bit of overtime which don’t get paid for but as you say rather that than be furloughed.
I was nearly furloughed for being too vocal about the owner taking the piss with the amount of people furloughed and the strain it’s leaving on the rest of us, but without blowing my own trumpet it was a hollow offer they know they would be cutting their nose off to spite their face if they furloughed me.
Hopefully you can stick your two fingers up at the owner when it settles down.
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 21:54
Why does someone on 30k need more free money to live than someone on 20k? Why does someone on 30k deserve more money for sitting on their arse at home? In a few months someone doing to feck all will be on 90 quid a week.
This is one of the reasons why framing the scheme around maintaining jobs was a mistake. The other major reason is that firms are still going to lay people off at the end of it.
Because their outgoings will be more.
We don’t live in a communist country thank god. They would also have paid more in tax than those on 20k.
What about those on more than 30k? Look at the hit they are taking.
A guy lives opposite me works on the shop floor. He wasn’t furloughed as he’s one of our best operators but played holy hell to be furloughed and was granted his wish.
After 7 weeks in the house is tune is starting to change.
“Is it picking up?”
“Not really”
“Can see redundancies now”
“No shit”
“You’ll be alright they’ll look after you”
“Well I should hope so I am going to work every day”
Madness. He's taken the easy option, and it will be the worst option.
Read my post above. The welsh government keeps telling us what he says on this matter has nothing to do with Wales. But they'll still blame him when it fcuks up.
That has nothing to do with what our conversation was about. Do you want me to quote it all back to you?
J R Hartley
10-05-20, 21:58
Hopefully you can stick your two fingers up at the owner when it settles down.
Fully expecting pay cuts once the free money runs out but having worked and bit been furloughed I hope to be in a stronger position to argue against a pay cut for those of us that continues to work. Get rid of the dead wood instead. Selfish? Maybe but why should I lose thousands a pounds of year looking after my family to keep a few lazy bastards in a job and trust me we have more than a few in my office.
I’d get a nice lump if I was made redundant and any other time I might have taken the risk and took voluntary redundancy (not that that will be offered) and get out of a dying industry but it’s not the time to be looking for new work.
Fully expecting pay cuts once the free money runs out but having worked and bit been furloughed I hope to be in a stronger position to argue against a pay cut for those of us that continues to work. Get rid of the dead wood instead. Selfish? Maybe but why should I lose thousands a pounds of year looking after my family to keep a few lazy bastards in a job and trust me we have more than a few in my office.
I’d get a nice lump if I was made redundant and any other time I might have taken the risk and took voluntary redundancy (not that that will be offered) and get out of a dying industry but it’s not the time to be looking for new work.
Yeah, just keeping in work is the challenge at the moment. If you have a decent redundancy to come then best sit tight.
Jimmy the Jock
10-05-20, 23:34
Some companies are operating fine (albeit with lower production) without the furloughed workers. Those companies that are furloughing all their staff are likely to be returning as a smaller concern. The bigger companies will be thinking "How do we automate this so that, the next time a pandemic happens, we can carry on as normal". There will be reassessments in all companies, I think. "Efficiencies" is a word I expect to hear a lot of.
I was in a local printers the other day , they were operating at 80% of revenue with 30% staff. They had changed the type of work they were doing.
Their staff wont all be getting their positions back
Its seems to be the same story everywhere that is still working.
A good opportunity to lay off the lazy workers .
Eric Cartman
11-05-20, 06:56
Because their outgoings will be more.
We don’t live in a communist country thank god. They would also have paid more in tax than those on 20k.
What about those on more than 30k? Look at the hit they are taking.
So why isn't our welfare system based on how much your previous job was paying or how much your outgoings are?
It's an about turn in how we view people at risk from redundancy and people don't seem to have noticed.
I'd be interested to know where the 2.5k figure comes from.
Outgoings higher? So it you were lucky enough to have the capital and credit rating to buy a house the government should pay for it for a few months. Most expenses are naturally reduced by the lockdown, arrange a mortgage hol, what happened to 'cutting your cloth accordingly' that used to be preached daily at benefit claimants and the lowest paid.
As for the C word, get a grip. It's the new Godwin's law.
the other bob wilson
11-05-20, 09:06
Ok , other than the obvious Jersey is tiny compared to the UK .
My mates are playing golf over there today , only two balls. They are allowed to visit friends a maximum of 4 people which is getting raised next week.
Pubs are reopening next week . With social distancing .
My friends painting and decorating business is back to work on Monday , all on outside jobs but they are back in work.
Surely if we were sensible , we are quite capable of keeping our distance from each other and going about our business?
Jimmy, you have a PM.
Echoed by a couple of people I know who work in different A&E departments. Both reckon Friday night was bonkers. One, who works in Princess of Wales, said she knew of colleagues who suffered verbal abuse by some drunks and police had to invervene.
I cannot imagine how social distancing would work in pubs. A queuing system, like the supermarkets, wouldn't work - generally people display patience outside Tesco, but I can't see that level of patience happening. The first night pubs are allowed to reopen will see crowds going out. Pubs won't have the capacity to deal with that, so what happens then? People buying cans and bottles from local shops and getting pissed on the pavement?
It will be like the wild west the first few weeks, people looking to shag or fight whatever moves after three pints!
This might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Like it was written by someone who has not looked at a graph since GCSE maths.
you don't read much then
AlwaysAway2
11-05-20, 14:59
I can answer the OP
Jersey has not had one death from Covid 19.
Not before or after our 7 week lockdown.
12 people died with Covid 19 which is not the same as from it.
They've guessed another 12 may have died with it from something else.
A lockdown when we dont have a problem is lunacy.
They have been clever and spent 14 million of taxpayers money buildng the equivalent per head of population with the UK a 40 thousand bed Nightingale hospital.
Oh and I played golf at lunchtime 9 holes. Lost 1 down.
Jimmy the Jock
11-05-20, 19:49
I can answer the OP
Jersey has not had one death from Covid 19.
Not before or after our 7 week lockdown.
12 people died with Covid 19 which is not the same as from it.
They've guessed another 12 may have died with it from something else.
A lockdown when we dont have a problem is lunacy.
They have been clever and spent 14 million of taxpayers money buildng the equivalent per head of population with the UK a 40 thousand bed Nightingale hospital.
Oh and I played golf at lunchtime 9 holes. Lost 1 down.
Thank you .
Are they allowing visitors in and out now?
Where do you play ?
Jimmy the Jock
11-05-20, 19:50
Jimmy, you have a PM.
I could see you had sent me something Paul , but what it actually was hasn't appeared .
I could see you had sent me something Paul , but what it actually was hasn't appeared .
Maybe its in self quarantine. You'll get it in 14 days :hehe:
AlwaysAway2
11-05-20, 20:31
Thank you .
Are they allowing visitors in and out now?
Where do you play ?
Visitors soon unless they have pissed the airlines off too much.
Royal Jersey. 9 holes only at the moment.
I prefer La Moye but that's not my club.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.