View Full Version : Trouble at PSG
William Treseder
08-12-20, 21:39
Both trams walk off and refuse to play after alleged racist comment by 4th Official
splott parker
08-12-20, 21:44
Both trams walk off and refuse to play after alleged racist comment by 4th Official
:hehe:
They're on track to finish the game now though.
William Treseder
08-12-20, 21:57
They're on track to finish the game now though.
Fat fingers 😂😂
ninian opinian
08-12-20, 22:01
They're on track to finish the game now though.
They’ve gone right of the rails in the second half :biggrin:
Never mind the subject, Bill has made a typo........how funny....
Llandaff Blue
08-12-20, 22:07
Apparently the fourth official referred to a black player as "this black guy". Bit confused why he'd even mention the players skin colour if he didn't know the players name.
splott parker
08-12-20, 22:20
Never mind the subject, Bill has made a typo........how funny....
It was funny, picturing a pair of trams departing a football pitch and what happened does deserve a smiley face. Both teams in perfect unison, full agreement to walk off, this is what is needed in incidents such as this particularly in UEFA competitions where a blind eye is very often turned. So :hehe: & :thumbup: to the players and officials of both clubs, protests and clubs making a stand makes me happy.
Never mind the subject, Bill has made a typo........how funny....
If I don't see you, have a lovely Christmas!
Apparently the fourth official referred to a black player as "this black guy". Bit confused why he'd even mention the players skin colour if he didn't know the players name.
It’s not as if they have their names on their backs or anything
It was funny, picturing a pair of trams departing a football pitch and what happened does deserve a smiley face. Both teams in perfect unison, full agreement to walk off, this is what is needed in incidents such as this particularly in UEFA competitions where a blind eye is very often turned. So :hehe: & :thumbup: to the players and officials of both clubs, protests and clubs making a stand makes me happy.
Yeah, but it's every time someone makes a typo on here, it's like being in school, then the thread can end up turning into a shit pun fest. I agree with what the players did.
If I don't see you, have a lovely Christmas!
Santa isn't in my Bubble.
OGS isn't having a fun night either.
Oh dear, how sad, what a pity, never mind!!! :hehe:
Maybe the fourth official was just acting his freedom of speech against a Marxist blah blah blah
Apparently the fourth official referred to a black player as "this black guy". Bit confused why he'd even mention the players skin colour if he didn't know the players name.
That awkward moment when you ask someone in work what Jeff on floor 3 looks like and they don't want to mention black so they stammer around a few seconds before mentioning something obscure.
In countries where a race is a minority I don't get the problem in using skin colour in this way, calling a black person black doesn't strike me as anything offensive.
Micah Richards on CBS has also said he wouldn't be offended by this.
Perhaps there is more to it than that though.
From what the channel I watched were saying, it was the coach the 4th official was referring to.
Taunton Blue Genie
08-12-20, 22:32
Santa isn't in my Bubble.
Did you mean 'bauble' ?
AGS isn't having a fun night either.
Oh dear, how sad, what a pity, never mind!!! :hehe:
AGS? You've done it now, although the pun crew may have a few problems with that one.
Did you mean 'bauble' ?
Now that's worth the wait. Thought out and clinical, i can go with that.... :hehe:
Llandaff Blue
08-12-20, 22:37
That awkward moment when you ask someone in work what Jeff on floor 3 looks like and they don't want to mention black so they stammer around a few seconds before mentioning something obscure.
In countries where a race is a minority I don't get the problem in using skin colour in this way, calling a black person black doesn't strike me as anything offensive.
Micah Richards on CBS has also said he wouldn't be offended by this.
Perhaps there is more to it than that though.
From what the channel I watched were saying, it was the coach the 4th official was referring to.
Yeah you're right, it was an assistant coach not a player.
I don't think it's racist either, it reminds me of the Cavani incident the other week where there's a bit of culture clash
Maybe the fourth official was just acting his freedom of speech against a Marxist blah blah blah
Winner.
That awkward moment when you ask someone in work what Jeff on floor 3 looks like and they don't want to mention black so they stammer around a few seconds before mentioning something obscure.
In countries where a race is a minority I don't get the problem in using skin colour in this way, calling a black person black doesn't strike me as anything offensive.
Those are edge cases though. If it’s 10 white lads and 1 black lad on a bank of desks in an office and you need to know who Jeff is, thats one thing (albeit still a bit ropey)
There’s at least 6 black players out on the pitch so to say “that black player there” is just fcking lazy racism
splott parker
08-12-20, 23:01
AGS? You've done it now, although the pun crew may have a few problems with that one.
No pun here, his first name is Awful:thumbup:
stan butler
08-12-20, 23:11
That awkward moment when you ask someone in work what Jeff on floor 3 looks like and they don't want to mention black so they stammer around a few seconds before mentioning something obscure.
In countries where a race is a minority I don't get the problem in using skin colour in this way, calling a black person black doesn't strike me as anything offensive.
Micah Richards on CBS has also said he wouldn't be offended by this.
Perhaps there is more to it than that though.
From what the channel I watched were saying, it was the coach the 4th official was referring to.
I have worked in places when im the only white person in the group and some who dont know my name have said ask the white fella over there or go and see the white fella and i dont find it wrong in anyway if they dont know my name.
AGS? You've done it now, although the pun crew may have a few problems with that one.
At least this time I got in an edited it in time. (I think) :hehe:
Those are edge cases though. If it’s 10 white lads and 1 black lad on a bank of desks in an office and you need to know who Jeff is, thats one thing (albeit still a bit ropey)
There’s at least 6 black players out on the pitch so to say “that black player there” is just fcking lazy racism
You just say "Jeff?" in a loud voice and see who looks up. :shrug: What would you do if they were all black or all white or all chinese?
You just say "Jeff?" in a loud voice and see who looks up. :shrug: What would you do if they were all black or all white or all chinese?
what if they are all called Jeff?
I've seen elsewhere (not an official source) that the 4th official didn't say "that black guy" - he said "that N*****"
If true (and it's a big IF), it becomes far more of an issue.
what if they are all called Jeff?
you sack the HR manager, clearly! :hehe:
you just go to his office and say "Jeff, you're fired!" (Before you say 'what if his names' Jeff? :hehe:)
Mbappé went over to the referee with his hands behind his back and very calmly said they should go off, seemingly before anyone else did. Serious maturity.
https://twitter.com/thehuwdavies/status/1336423421027160070
Also, before anything, please consider the fact that Coltescu, the 4th ref, is an emotionally fragile person, having tried to take his own life 12 years ago. The case was big in Romania back then.
https://twitter.com/Emishor/status/1336422228649533444
BREAKING: The Romanian Anti-Discrimination Council chaiman: "It's racism without any possibility of interpretation. He could have identified the player by so many other details and ignore his colour"
https://twitter.com/Emishor/status/1336429405342740489
No need for a "hot-take" on this.
I've seen elsewhere (not an official source) that the 4th official didn't say "that black guy" - he said "that N*****"
If true (and it's a big IF), it becomes far more of an issue.
I got hundreds of messages asking me the same question. So, the ref uses 'negru', which is literally the colour 'black'. In native Romanian it's not used as an offensive word to describe players of colour. That doesn't excuse Coltescu in this given context, though.
(https://twitter.com/Emishor/status/1336426162847936524)
Taunton Blue Genie
09-12-20, 12:55
I got hundreds of messages asking me the same question. So, the ref uses 'negru', which is literally the colour 'black'. In native Romanian it's not used as an offensive word to describe players of colour. That doesn't excuse Coltescu in this given context, though.
(https://twitter.com/Emishor/status/1336426162847936524)
I don't know all the fine detail of this particular incident but I posted a message on here a few months months ago and which was more of a question than a statement (although someone thought it was a loaded question and suspected me of artful racism). It was about the use in Latin languages (which includes Romanian) of the definite article coupled with the person's attributes or, in this case, skin colour e.g. 'el negro' the black (masculine) person. I don't think that it necessarily always equates exactly to the use of the culturally-loaded 'n' word in English* but there is obviously more to it in this case and possibly more than identifying a player by colour, which may be considered offensive itself by some.
Personally, (and as I have stated before) I can't bring myself to call people 'black' as it seems so very binary when skin tones are on a wide spectrum - and I have lost touch with what people are referred to who are between the simplistic categories of 'black' and 'white'.
*My post was asking those with a better knowledge of Latin languages to educate me about any nuances involved and that I am unaware of.
Croesy Blue
09-12-20, 14:42
It’s not as if they have their names on their backs or anything
It all just seems a really unfortunate incident where the word for black guy in Romanian sounds like a slur.
I suppose context matters more than anything and how the 4th official said it. There's nothing wrong with identifying someone by their skin colour (I don't think), as long as it isn't being derogatory.
William Treseder
09-12-20, 17:31
It’s not as if they have their names on their backs or anything
It wasn’t a player the 4th official was referring to. It was the assistant manager on the Greek team.
Anyway, my gut feeling on this, is the players over reacted, as to the intent of what was said, and how it translated. There have been many racist incidents and chants at games where the players should definitely have walked off but haven’t.
With the racist subject firmly in the limelight at the moment, i actually felt sorry for the 4th official last night, as he look genuinely shaken, and upset, especially when Demba Ba was shouting in his face.
I don't know all the fine detail of this particular incident but I posted a message on here a few months months ago and which was more of a question than a statement (although someone thought it was a loaded question and suspected me of artful racism). It was about the use in Latin languages (which includes Romanian) of the definite article coupled with the person's attributes or, in this case, skin colour e.g. 'el negro' the black (masculine) person. I don't think that it necessarily always equates exactly to the use of the culturally-loaded 'n' word in English* but there is obviously more to it in this case and possibly more than identifying a player by colour, which may be considered offensive itself by some.
Personally, (and as I have stated before) I can't bring myself to call people 'black' as it seems so very binary when skin tones are on a wide spectrum - and I have lost touch with what people are referred to who are between the simplistic categories of 'black' and 'white'.
*My post was asking those with a better knowledge of Latin languages to educate me about any nuances involved and that I am unaware of.
Wasn't that the Cavani incident you are referring to?
There was a lot of gnashing of teeth after it but I am unaware of any action being taken against him.
Hopefully the same with this guy who I am pretty sure meant no disrespect.
Taunton Blue Genie
10-12-20, 11:07
Wasn't that the Cavani incident you are referring to?
There was a lot of gnashing of teeth after it but I am unaware of any action being taken against him.
Hopefully the same with this guy who I am pretty sure meant no disrespect.
I don't know the fine detail of any such cases and probably never will. Although racism should concern us all I'm also very interested in the nuance of language in general - and a number of high-profile cases in football have involved Latin Languages. 'Ark at 'er, I hear you say :hehe:
I don't know the fine detail of any such cases and probably never will. Although racism should concern us all I'm also very interested in the nuance of language in general - and a number of high-profile cases in football have involved Latin Languages. 'Ark at 'er, I hear you say :hehe:
Racism is an emotive subject and its profile has been raised by an immeasurable amount this last year on a global scale.
Add into the mix linguistics, such a complicated subject. With all the multi nationalities playing football with and against each other in many different countries with differing cultures, it wouldn't surprise me to see more instances such as this occurring.
Let's hope there are only isolated ones.
life on mars
10-12-20, 18:04
What if he said its the" white one " if the person identified was surrounded by black people .
Taunton Blue Genie
10-12-20, 18:08
What if he said its the" white one " if the person identified was surrounded by black people .
Are you aware of the punching up v punching down concept?
What if he said its the" white one " if the person identified was surrounded by black people .
slightly related but could we be making direct translations where none actually exist? In Spanish you have el gwapo, el chapo etc
perhaps the use of el negro/a or el blanco/a in spanish and other latin languages may be considered much more innocent in its native form than the literal translation into English?
Taunton Blue Genie
10-12-20, 18:13
slightly related but could we be making direct translations where none actually exist? In Spanish you have el gwapo, el chapo etc
perhaps the use of el negro/a or el blanco/a in spanish and other latin languages may be considered much more innocent in its native form than the literal translation into English?
It's 'El guapo' in Spanish. 'El gwapo' is the version in the Philippines.
life on mars
10-12-20, 18:13
Are you aware of the punching up v punching down concept?
No sorry however like all concepts , they all have thier flaws and can be debated either way
life on mars
10-12-20, 18:16
John Barnes*has defended the match official at the centre of a racism row following*Istanbul Basaksehir*and*Paris Saint-Germain’s decision to abandon their*Champions League*match on Tuesday evening.
Both sides walked off during the first half of the group-stage game in Paris*after fourth official Sebastian Coltescu allegedly made a racist remark about a member of the Turkish club’s coaching staff.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/john-barnes-istanbul-basaksehir-psg-racism-ucl-b1768708.html
Taunton Blue Genie
10-12-20, 18:22
No sorry however like all concepts , they all have thier flaws and can be debated either way
It helps to find out what a concept means before you debate it and highlight its flaws, of course.
It's 'El guapo' in Spanish. 'El gwapo' is the version in the Philippines.
never let it be said that you like to split hairs. the point still stands, and I invite you to make comment
John Barnes*has defended the match official at the centre of a racism row following*Istanbul Basaksehir*and*Paris Saint-Germain’s decision to abandon their*Champions League*match on Tuesday evening.
Both sides walked off during the first half of the group-stage game in Paris*after fourth official Sebastian Coltescu allegedly made a racist remark about a member of the Turkish club’s coaching staff.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/john-barnes-istanbul-basaksehir-psg-racism-ucl-b1768708.html
John Barnes was on the end of some seriously bad racism in our football grounds so he more than most is qualified to discuss this issue. clearly Barnes has no issue with someone using the qualifier "black" when its appropriate to do so, and if anyone knows if its racism or not its going to be him.
Taunton Blue Genie
10-12-20, 18:36
never let it be said that you like to split hairs. the point still stands, and I invite you to make comment
I think you will find that you are late to the party on this subject.
It helps to find out what a concept means before you debate it and highlight its flaws, of course.
who determines if someone is a higher or lower status?
Taunton Blue Genie
10-12-20, 18:38
never let it be said that you like to split hairs. the point still stands, and I invite you to make comment
I think you will find that you are late to the party. I have broached this subject earlier in the thread.
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