View Full Version : FT:NORWICH CITY 2 - 0 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread
Michael Morris
18-12-20, 00:40
Saturday December 19th, ko 12:30pm
Live on Sky Sports Main Event, Sky Sports Football and Sky Ultra HD
Match officials:
Referee: TIM ROBINSON
Assistants: Nigel Lugg and Lee Venamore
Fourth Official : Neil Hair
Two teams with 12pts from the last 15.
A tough challenge for the Bluebirds. But not impossible.
Mr Robinson seems to like us .
One home draw, one away draw and two away wins last season.
So here’s to you “Mr Robinson” Cardiff loves you more than you will know
Former Labour leader
18-12-20, 10:03
Mr Robinson seems to like us .
One home draw, one away draw and two away wins last season.
So here’s to you “Mr Robinson” Cardiff loves you more than you will know
https://youtu.be/uP9rAQLAKLk
Der Kaiser
18-12-20, 13:06
Going to stick my neck out there and say a close 1-0 for the bluebirds.
https://youtu.be/uP9rAQLAKLk
https://youtu.be/EHWFMuFwnBA
Former Labour leader
18-12-20, 13:53
Going to stick my neck out there and say a close 1-0 for the bluebirds.
I dont know why, and the chances are we are both going to be badly wrong, but I have a feeling in my waters as well, that we may pull off a shock.
2-1 Bluebirds
Former Labour leader
18-12-20, 16:05
See the side flew up to Norwich today. That must have been a bit windy.
I'll give you the Malky!!
18-12-20, 18:36
Shot to nothing....Norwich 2-0
life on mars
18-12-20, 21:17
Thier keeper Tim Krull injured ??
Former Labour leader
18-12-20, 21:34
Thier keeper Tim Krull injured ??
Yes.
Freitag 4.17
19-12-20, 09:27
Optimistic 2-1 - I don't think we're particularly good but can beat anyone on the day with Wilson in the side, he's that good IMO - Nelson needs a much better game than last out and he should be motivated to make up for Weds
Got a good feeling on this one despite logic saying a home win.
Going 2-1 City with a late winner.
0-1 Glatz - Smithies MotM.
Thier keeper Tim Krull injured ??
I have a feeling that today that won’t matter much.
You could probably put that chef in goal for them today
the other bob wilson
19-12-20, 11:45
Cunningham for Bennett (who's not on the bnch) and Ralls for Whyte only changes. Hoilett is back as a sub and Zimba and Patten are also still in the squad.
Wilson stars at no 10 then shifted out wide again today Personally find this so frustrating.
Would be more than happy with a no score draw today. Take a point and a clean sheet.
BlueArmy 86
19-12-20, 12:11
I think we’ll get a point today
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
19-12-20, 12:29
Mozza looks scary! C'mon City!
Mozza looks scary! C'mon City!
Mozza is scary 😂
Eric the Half a Bee
19-12-20, 12:34
Cmon City! Positive start, none of this slow, languid nonsense.
Who's Zimba?
And why are we wearing that stupid kit?
Eric the Half a Bee
19-12-20, 12:41
Bright start, entertaining game so far.
Eric the Half a Bee
19-12-20, 12:43
Who's Zimba
Son of Mufasa.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 12:48
Wilson stars at no 10 then shifted out wide again today Personally find this so frustrating.
We are not going to play with a number 10 away to the best team in the division. Get real. 3 in centre midfield is absolutely the right call today.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 12:49
Cunningham for Bennett (who's not on the bnch) and Ralls for Whyte only changes. Hoilett is back as a sub and Zimba and Patten are also still in the squad.
Bennet injured confirmed by Harris before kick off
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 12:52
Norwich getting into their stride worryingly
Bacuna ball watching there, they should've scored
Norwich getting into their stride worryingly
yep they're starting to turn the screw
matter of time...i feel a right bashing coming on
we win the ball in midfield then against a disorganized defence and pack passes backwards 20 yards.
billy.ronson
19-12-20, 12:59
Sloppy goal given away again
1 nil.
Should really be Nil 1, mozza free header.
I'll give you the Malky!!
19-12-20, 13:01
What's with us just letting teams having a free run and shot ?
Sloppy goal given away again
Piss poor, Morrison, why did he go across, all he had to do is stay in the position he was in, he opened the barn door for the goalscorer.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:02
Let’s make sure we get to HT no worse than 1-0. Need fo hang in here.
WJ99mobile
19-12-20, 13:02
Poor defending again.
What's with us just letting teams having a free run and shot ?
There's an old saying take one for the team. We are hopeless at getting stuck in in MF.
WJ99mobile
19-12-20, 13:06
To be fair to Norwich they do look a good team. Pukki and Cantwell are top players in this division
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:08
To be fair to Norwich they do look a good team. Pukki and Cantwell are top players in this division
They got some excellent players for this level. Done well to keep this squad together.
To be fair to Norwich they do look a good team. Pukki and Cantwell are top players in this division
I think buendia is the best of the lot
WJ99mobile
19-12-20, 13:09
There's an old saying take one for the team. We are hopeless at getting stuck in in MF.
To be fair when he went past pack it was already too late to take him down. Someone out of Morrison/Nelson should have gone out to him and pack was too slow to get near him
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:09
It’s time to man mark Cantwell. He’s murdering us.
WJ99mobile
19-12-20, 13:10
I think buendia is the best of the lot
He looks really good today but I don’t know enough about him
splott parker
19-12-20, 13:12
Ref lenient with Sorensen, he’s nipped a few attacks in the bud with a cynical foul.
He looks really good today but I don’t know enough about him
Very highly rated, was a big surprise they managed to hang onto him.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:16
Ref lenient with Sorensen, he’s nipped a few attacks in the bud with a cynical foul.
Unbelievable he wasn’t booked for the one on Wilson
splott parker
19-12-20, 13:16
Bad miss by Glatzel from the ‘keeper’s save from Morrison. Given offside but didn’t look it, the goalie beat it out to him, would have been annoyed had it gone in. We’ve responded quite well to their goal, let’s get in only one down.
Pity Moore wasnt fit. They look ropey in the air.
Unbelievable he wasn’t booked for the one on Wilson
Cynical
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:18
Grew back into it after they scored. Unlucky not to be level.
Blooobirds
valleys caveman
19-12-20, 13:18
HT 1-0
Well we are playing with Ralls in a 10 role, pushing forward so taking him out of the midfield. Didn't Harris learn from the Swansea game? After Wilson played so well there this week he's back out wide. Ralls doesn't play that role well. The only way we look good is at set pieces.
I think we've done alright. Morrison should have scored and we look dangerous at set pieces
Norwich are a very good side, probably the best in the division
Norwich are direct, running, passing, finding space.
We have done well to concede only one and we could have scored.
Good side but we are making them look far better. When you don't close down pretty much until just outside your own box you're just giving players far more time than they need.
More energy, better closing down please second half. Going forward we have offered nothing from open play unfortunately.
Bad miss by Glatzel from the ‘keeper’s save from Morrison. Given offside but didn’t look it, the goalie beat it out to him, would have been annoyed had it gone in. We’ve responded quite well to their goal, let’s get in only one down.
He was almost on the dead ball line, he'd have to have a body like cooked pasta to score from there.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:29
I think we've done alright. Morrison should have scored and we look dangerous at set pieces
Norwich are a very good side, probably the best in the division
No probably about it. They’ve got the best players in the division.
Defending to deep for my liking, cantwell has a free roll and there's way to much space for him to exploit. Grow a set of balls and narrow that space between defence and midfield. It's all very well saying that Cantwell is a quality player, but he's got yards to play in. Test him, lets see how good he is when things are tight. If he still performs then fair play. He's been given a free pass by us.
Good side but we are making them look far better. When you don't close down pretty much until just outside your own box you're just giving players far more time than they need.
More energy, better closing down please second half. Going forward we have offered nothing from open play unfortunately.
Yup, to much space for them to exploit. You don't give good players the bullets to fire their gun.
To be fair to Norwich they do look a good team. Pukki and Cantwell are top players in this division
Agreed.
Not sure what we can do here. We're winning set pieces and have had chances from that route but we do look vulnerable on the counter. Could Gavin Whyte come on and move Wilson central?
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:32
Defending to deep for my liking, cantwell has a free roll and there's way to much space for him to exploit. Grow a set of balls and narrow that space between defence and midfield. It's all very well saying that Cantwell is a quality player, but he's got yards to play in. Test him, lets see how good he is when things are tight. If he still performs then fair play. He's been given a free pass by us.
They have the best off the shoulder striker in the division. Pushing the defence up will be suicide.
They have the best off the shoulder striker in the division. Pushing the defence up will be suicide.
Why? we have fullbacks who can get around, that's their job, stop the source, narrow the play, take a bit of a risk. As it stands we're allowing them to play, our midfield can't cope with the movement. Close the space and let defenders do their job. That's my opinion :thumbup:
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:36
They have the best off the shoulder striker in the division. Pushing the defence up will be suicide.
As shown there! We ain’t catching Pukki in a foot race. Lucky he didn’t have his shooting boots on there.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:38
Why? we have fullbacks who can get around, that's their job, stop the source, narrow the play, take a bit of a risk. As it stands we're allowing them to play, our midfield can't cope with the movement. Close the space and let defenders do their job. That's my opinion :thumbup:
That’s 2 chances in 3 minutes. Like I said, suicide. He won’t keep passing these chances up.
That's Buendia's 4th foul, will he get booked? No.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:40
Get the **** in the book
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
19-12-20, 13:42
Buendia is a kent
Now he's thrown the ball away and thrown an arm at Cunningham. Still nothing.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:42
How the **** has he escaped a booking there?
Oh but we get a booking. Pathetic.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:46
This is a joke now
How is that a booking for Ojo? Laughable refereeing
Cheating kents the lot of em!
CopenhagenBlue
19-12-20, 13:48
Oh but we get a booking. Pathetic.
It's just incredible that they haven't had a booking yet we've had 2. The first against Wilson was ridiculous
That’s 2 chances in 3 minutes. Like I said, suicide. He won’t keep passing these chances up.
Two chances because we've got a defender 10 yards deeper than the rest.
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
19-12-20, 13:49
English ref, Norwich at home
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 13:49
How is that a booking for Ojo? Laughable refereeing
It’s ****ing maddening is what it is
Massive let off there. All stemmed from a hospital pass into the box when the player had time to set up.
I'll give you the Malky!!
19-12-20, 13:51
Take Pack off now
valleys caveman
19-12-20, 13:52
We're lucky to still be in this. Norwich missing chances for fun.
We need to keep it tighter, there's half an hour left and we're leaving gaps.
Glatzel not having his best day. We could really do with Moore's hold-up play today.
splott parker
19-12-20, 13:55
Glatzel just hasn’t got that oooomph, that killer instinct, I’m almost willing him to get stuck in and knock a few defenders about.
I'll give you the Malky!!
19-12-20, 13:55
Take Pack off now
Harris obviously reads this message board
Cmon Junior we can still get something from this.
Hoilett for Pack. Strange one.
splott parker
19-12-20, 13:58
We're lucky to still be in this. Norwich missing chances for fun.
I suppose this shows that we’re trying to have a go with them hitting us on the break so often. Liable to get caught soon though, their finishing surely has to improve.
Hoilett for Pack. Strange one.
Assume Hoilett out wide, Wilson inside.
At least he's looking to go for it whilst keeping our shape.
Saturday December 19th, ko 12:30pm
Live on Sky Sports Main Event, Sky Sports Football and Sky Ultra HD
Match officials:
Referee: TIM ROBINSON
Assistants: Nigel Lugg and Lee Venamore
Fourth Official : Neil Hair
Two teams with 12pts from the last 15.
A tough challenge for the Bluebirds. But not impossible.
Another kamikaze pass
valleys caveman
19-12-20, 13:59
2-0
I'll give you the Malky!!
19-12-20, 14:00
We have such a soft centre
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:00
Ball watching
Eric the Half a Bee
19-12-20, 14:00
Game over
What was Morrison doing then?
Assume Hoilett out wide, Wilson inside.
At least he's looking to go for it whilst keeping our shape.
Brilliant goal.
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
19-12-20, 14:01
Is Nelson a spectator on the pitch?
CopenhagenBlue
19-12-20, 14:02
There's light years between these two sides to be fair to Norwich. I'd love to see us play the way they do. None of our players want the ball, nobody ever shows for it. They all want it, all the time, and they pass it round with purpose.
And there we have it, look at the pocket of space between our midfield and defence and the pocket of space cantwell had to take the shot. Great strike but given to him by a defence standing 8 yards to deep.
Frustrating to watch, whole team just trotting around following the passes. Poor.
Close him down ffs
:hehe: camped on the 18 yard box.
Cyncoed Slumdog
19-12-20, 14:03
Yet again a player is allowed to run unchallenged in midfield and shoot. Twice today, Jacks and Brum the same.
Swiss Peter
19-12-20, 14:03
There's light years between these two sides to be fair to Norwich. I'd love to see us play the way they do. None of our players want the ball, nobody ever shows for it. They all want it, all the time, and they pass it round with purpose.
Was just thinking exactly the same.
they are just playing with us now..pathetic defence
splott parker
19-12-20, 14:04
Not Pukki’s day so far, thank God.
Der Kaiser
19-12-20, 14:05
Given his good work in the week Pack has just earned himself another long spell on the bench for me, dire performance, Harris took way too long to get him off and frankly we are lucky we weren’t punished off one of his umpteen mistakes.
Centre backs have to change, the pair of them are shaking like shitting dogs every time someone even breathes at them, dropping off and invited both goals. If Benkovic isn’t up to it, get Bamba or someone from the academy in. We can’t keep play the same two at the back and then wondering why we’re conceding preventable goals.
valleys caveman
19-12-20, 14:05
Harris on for Ojo.
Very frustrating to watch, not compact in defence, midfield just runs around and we have offered nothing in the final 3rd unless its a set play. Not sure what the game plan was supposed to be but it didn't work.
CopenhagenBlue
19-12-20, 14:06
Frustrating to watch, whole team just trotting around following the passes. Poor.
We're just so pedestrian. For a team like ours that lacks the footballers Norwich have, you'd at least expect a bit of energy and get in their faces and make it uncomfortable. We just back off all the time and make it even easier for them
LeningradCowboy
19-12-20, 14:07
Nelson, Pack, and Vaulks have been passengers today. They're just not good enough.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:07
:hehe: camped on the 18 yard box.
Because they’ve had 5 one on ones in the 2nd half playing your kamikaze tactic. 😂
Just watching with admiration, no attempt to get close and challenge.
splott parker
19-12-20, 14:09
Commentator saying that Neil Harris reckons Mark Harris is very much Jamie Vardy like??
Commentator saying that Neil Harris reckons Mark Harris is very much Jamie Vardy like??
At tiddlywinks
Rock_Flock_of_Five
19-12-20, 14:11
Nelson, Pack, and Vaulks have been passengers today. They're just not good enough.
All three are League One players.
Because they’ve had 5 one on ones in the 2nd half playing your kamikaze tactic. ��
What are you talking about? The defence is way to deep, that's why they've had so many chances, the tactics you're endorsing. Closing space in midfield is hardly revolutionary.
Morrison should have had a feckin hat trick
LeningradCowboy
19-12-20, 14:15
I'm shocked that playing Joe Ralls as a number 10 didn't work out for us today.
Not.
splott parker
19-12-20, 14:15
Glatzel, very disappointing, what a comfortable dinner time for Norwich’s central defenders, they won’t have an easier shift all season.
BlueArmy 86
19-12-20, 14:15
Can’t create anything in open play
If only Morrison had a GPS system fitted in his head.
He gets his head to it on a regular basis but where it goes is anyone's guess.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:18
What are you talking about? The defence is way to deep, that's why they've had so many chances, the tactics you're endorsing. Closing space in midfield is hardly revolutionary.
You want the defence to play higher which they were are start of the 2nd half and we conceded chance after chance. You can’t allow a team like Norwich space to run into.
There was very little space between the 2 lines for that second just everyone ball watching and no-one taking responsibility for Cantwell.
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter which tactic we employed they got much better players and apart from Pukki they were bang on it today.
Just bring on one of the youngsters, they've come all the way to Norwich
I'll try to pick the positives out of the games from now on because questioning players or Harris seems to be viewed as anti City in some quarters.
Today I think we can take away positives from the few set pieces that Morrison was unlucky not to get at least one and Cunningham looks more solid than Bennett.
Weve really missed Moore today. Weve caused them enough problems with Morrison.
LeningradCowboy
19-12-20, 14:21
Will Osei-Tutu be fit again after Christmas? We really need Bacuna back in midfield.
Will Osei-Tutu be fit again after Christmas? We really need Bacuna back in midfield.
Very much hope so. Ralls and Vaulks are not effective.
splott parker
19-12-20, 14:23
What are you talking about? The defence is way to deep, that's why they've had so many chances, the tactics you're endorsing. Closing space in midfield is hardly revolutionary.
The defence certainly weren’t too deep in the early part of the second half, their missed chances were the result of them breaking quickly leaving our defence for dead forty yards from goal.
You want the defence to play higher which they were are start of the 2nd half and we conceded chance after chance. You can’t allow a team like Norwich space to run into.
There was very little space between the 2 lines for that second just everyone ball watching and no-one taking responsibility for Cantwell.
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter which tactic we employed they got much better players and apart from Pukki they were bang on it today.
:hehe: Fair play Harts, i don't know what game you're watching, our defence hasn't moved. Cantwell moved into the space between the midfield and defence, checked his watch, had a drag on his cigar, scratched his arse then decided to get his shot off. If our defenders had been yards advanced he wouldn't have even had the chance to turn with the ball. It doesn't matter about the 'two lines' if the defence pushes then so does the midfield. Agree about them having better players and we'd have lost anyway, it's how you lose though.:thumbup:
valleys caveman
19-12-20, 14:24
FT 2-0
Better team won.
We werent disgraced.
The defence certainly weren’t too deep in the early part of the second half, their missed chances were the result of them breaking quickly leaving our defence for dead forty yards from goal.
Yes they were, both occasions we were in our own half. This aint difficult, if players squeeze the space then it becomes more difficult for the opposition to play quickly, if they do then make it a foot race, get fullbacks around.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:27
:hehe: Fair play Harts, i don't know what game you're watching, our defence hasn't moved. Cantwell moved into the space between the midfield and defence, checked his watch, had a drag on his cigar, scratched his arse then decided to get his shot off. If our defenders had been yards advanced he wouldn't have even had the chance to turn with the ball. It doesn't matter about the 'two lines' if the defence pushes then so does the midfield. Agree about them having better players and we'd have lost anyway, it's how you lose though.:thumbup:
So we weren’t further forward in defence at the start of the 2nd half and until Pack went off? Ok mate. You just have the same optician as Stevie Wonder. :hehe:
Rock_Flock_of_Five
19-12-20, 14:28
I'll try to pick the positives out of the games from now on because questioning players or Harris seems to be viewed as anti City in some quarters.
Today I think we can take away positives from the few set pieces that Morrison was unlucky not to get at least one and Cunningham looks more solid than Bennett.
It's okay, apparently the rule on here is you cannot criticise any aspect after a WIN.
And you dare not suggest that Cunningham looks a better defender than Bennett. Bennett is just 'a bit jaded' after all his sterling efforts of his recent defensive duties.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:28
Yes they were, both occasions we were in our own half. This aint difficult, if players squeeze the space then it becomes more difficult for the opposition to play quickly, if they do then make it a foot race, get fullbacks around.
Centre half’s on the half way line against Pukki :hehe: :hehe:
It’s not 1989 and we don’t have the Arsenal back 4. :hehe:
Eric the Half a Bee
19-12-20, 14:28
Decent effort. Norwich are a very good side going forward, lots of clever movement and their forwards find space. They're top for a reason. It highlights a lack of quality for us in attack - they look inventive, we look a little predictable. It works against lots of sides in this division, just it looks laboured and uninventive against the best.
Far better effort than last Saturday despite the result
splott parker
19-12-20, 14:28
:hehe: Fair play Harts, i don't know what game you're watching, our defence hasn't moved. Cantwell moved into the space between the midfield and defence, checked his watch, had a drag on his cigar, scratched his arse then decided to get his shot off. If our defenders had been yards advanced he wouldn't have even had the chance to turn with the ball. It doesn't matter about the 'two lines' if the defence pushes then so does the midfield. Agree about them having better players and we'd have lost anyway, it's how you lose though.:thumbup:
To be fair, Cantwell’s goal was 25 minutes into the second half, their early second half chances were created by breaking away from our defence who’d pushed up.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:29
Yes they were, both occasions we were in our own half. This aint difficult, if players squeeze the space then it becomes more difficult for the opposition to play quickly, if they do then make it a foot race, get fullbacks around.
:hehe: :hehe: :hehe:
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:30
To be fair, Cantwell’s goal was 25 minutes into the second half, their early second half chances were created by breaking away from our defence who’d pushed up.
Correct. He’s too stubborn to admit it.
Gofer Blue
19-12-20, 14:31
You can debate until the proverbial cows come home but City were just outclassed - just as simple as that.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:32
It didn’t matter what we tried they were simply too good. We press they play around us, we push up they run in behind us, we sit deep they played intricate stuff between the lines.
They simply have better players. Nothing to be ashamed of. We won’t face that quality every week.
It's okay, apparently the rule on here is you cannot criticise any aspect after a WIN.
And you dare not suggest that Cunningham looks a better defender than Bennett. Bennett is just 'a bit jaded' after all his sterling efforts of his recent defensive duties.
He's been a bit jaded for a few seasons then.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:33
You can debate until the proverbial cows come home but City were just outclassed - just as simple as that.
Correct. They have far superior players.
splott parker
19-12-20, 14:34
Yes they were, both occasions we were in our own half. This aint difficult, if players squeeze the space then it becomes more difficult for the opposition to play quickly, if they do then make it a foot race, get fullbacks around.
You’re taking a hell of risk if your defenders are pushing up so far as to be in their half:hehe:
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:34
He's been a bit jaded for a few seasons then.
****ing hell having a pop at a player that didn’t even play today.:hehe:
That’s taking scapegoats to another level :hehe:
splott parker
19-12-20, 14:35
Correct. They have far superior players.
Of course, they’re not 6 points clear no reason.
:hehe: :hehe: :hehe:
It's the space that they're allowed to play in and move into, that's the problem. If it's restricted then it becomes more difficult, if they navigate it the good on them. We gave them that.
We picked up 4 yellows to their none.
They are raving over Buendia on Sky. Insult to injury.
You’re taking a hell of risk if your defenders are pushing up so far as to be in their half:hehe:
Halfway line, and then react to the play, adjust accordingly, you don't leave 10 yards of space for a team to play in, like we witnessed today.
It didn’t matter what we tried they were simply too good. We press they play around us, we push up they run in behind us, we sit deep they played intricate stuff between the lines.
They simply have better players. Nothing to be ashamed of. We won’t face that quality every week.
Yeah, they are better, much better. Why give them space to play in if they're more technical. Practise game for Norwich.
Eric the Half a Bee
19-12-20, 14:38
Very much hope so. Ralls and Vaulks are not effective.
I don't think Bacuna is particularly effective with anyone else. He's not as good a passer as Pack and he's less creative than Ralls or Vaulks.
I think it highlights how underwhelming our centre midfield is when there's a clamour to get Bacuna back. He's not a player I would expect to move to another top half Championship club, but then I don't think any of our centre midfielders are, either, Ralls at a push.
To be fair, Cantwell’s goal was 25 minutes into the second half, their early second half chances were created by breaking away from our defence who’d pushed up.
They broke through the midfield, where there was way to much space.
Correct. He’s too stubborn to admit it.
Nah, you just don't have an answer :hehe:
Rock_Flock_of_Five
19-12-20, 14:41
I don't think Bacuna is particularly effective with anyone else. He's not as good a passer as Pack and he's less creative than Ralls or Vaulks.
I think it highlights how underwhelming our centre midfield is when there's a clamour to get Bacuna back. He's not a player I would expect to move to another top half Championship club, but then I don't think any of our centre midfielders are, either, Ralls at a push.
How can anyone be less creative than Ralls or Vaulks?
tforturton
19-12-20, 14:42
It could have been worse, but they're a good side, and we were well beaten.
Will Osei-Tutu be fit again after Christmas? We really need Bacuna back in midfield.
I don't think Bacuna is particularly effective with anyone else. He's not as good a passer as Pack and he's less creative than Ralls or Vaulks.
I think it highlights how underwhelming our centre midfield is when there's a clamour to get Bacuna back. He's not a player I would expect to move to another top half Championship club, but then I don't think any of our centre midfielders are, either, Ralls at a push.
I'm sticking my neck out here Eric, especially as you will no doubt have the stats to back you up, but Vaulks and Ralls I would say create very little chances between them.
I would have them in the "dogged midfielder" bracket, but not that effective, especially closing down and shot stopping as we've seen over the last few weeks.
I do feel for Bacuna as the chances he's had in MF he's done well and been a victim of poor recruitment regarding the right back position.
These are the type of team we need to look even close to matching if we have any aspirations of promotion.
They will not have many easier games than that this season. They passed through us and around us at will and it could and should have been more.
Even with the recent run we look destined to be a mid table team. We do alright against your physical teams with our style, your Birmingham's of this world, but ultimately come up short against teams that play a passing, quick style. It is alright if mid table is your main aim but we're not good enough to trouble the top teams enough to get promoted if we're being honest with ourselves.
Better team won.
We werent disgraced.
Sums it up.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 14:53
These are the type of team we need to look even close to matching if we have any aspirations of promotion.
They will not have many easier games than that this season. They passed through us and around us at will and it could and should have been more.
Even with the recent run we look destined to be a mid table team. We do alright against your physical teams with our style, your Birmingham's of this world, but ultimately come up short against teams that play a passing, quick style. It is alright if mid table is your main aim but we're not good enough to trouble the top teams enough to get promoted if we're being honest with ourselves.
The rest of the division is a lot closer to the Birmingham’s of this division rather than the Norwiches.
As the commentator said Norwich are after autos, realistically we are chasing play-offs. Probably 5th or 6th. We will win some, we will lose some such is the nature of the division. On paper that’s probably the most difficult game of the season.
No need for a melt down losing to a quality Norwich side. Another tough game on Boxing Day and then a run of fixtures we should be looking at picking up a few wins.
Bloooobirds
Stanmore Bluebird
19-12-20, 14:55
That’s the spirit- I agree JRH.
How can anyone be less creative than Ralls or Vaulks?
Have a look at our goals v Stoke.
The rest of the division is a lot closer to the Birmingham’s of this division rather than the Norwiches.
As the commentator said Norwich are after autos, realistically we are chasing play-offs. Probably 5th or 6th. We will win some, we will lose some such is the nature of the division. On paper that’s probably the most difficult game of the season.
No need for a melt down losing to a quality Norwich side. Another tough game on Boxing Day and then a run of fixtures we should be looking at picking up a few wins.
Bloooobirds
Nobody is having a meltdown.
We finished fifth last season and added a better striker and what some describe as one of the best players in the Championship to our midfield.
If results go against us today then we will be 12th.
For some even questioning our performances is seen as being anti City. I think it is anti City not questioning why we are 5 places below where we finished last season despite strengthening the squad and while being able to turn over the average teams with our bullying style but get turned over regularly by the better teams without a whimper.
You can debate until the proverbial cows come home but City were just outclassed - just as simple as that.
They're better than us, that much is obvious. I wouldn't say we were outclassed though. We weren't set up right. The defence weren't disciplined, Glatzel barely showed up and Harris brought Hoilett on too early. They didn't beat us at a canter though. With a bit of luck and a bit more tactical nouse we could have got a point today.
StraightOuttaCanton
19-12-20, 15:08
Nah, you just don't have an answer :hehe:
No... he’s right. I’m not sure what game you were watching either.
We had no cover on either flank... Bacuna and Cunningham in particular were both too advanced AND too narrow. They literally needed on pass to a player in the middle of the park to draw one of those 2 even further out of position and then it was a simple knock into acres of space... they must have done it 4 or 5 times in about 10 minutes
We had literally no answer with the way we set up
Better team won.
We werent disgraced.
Sums it up.
True, but we COULD have scored a couple...
then again, Naarritch COULD have scored 5 or 6.
stan butler
19-12-20, 15:17
The rest of the division is a lot closer to the Birmingham’s of this division rather than the Norwiches.
As the commentator said Norwich are after autos, realistically we are chasing play-offs. Probably 5th or 6th. We will win some, we will lose some such is the nature of the division. On paper that’s probably the most difficult game of the season.
No need for a melt down losing to a quality Norwich side. Another tough game on Boxing Day and then a run of fixtures we should be looking at picking up a few wins.
Bloooobirds
Well said. Without sounding like an arse licker you are the best poster on here by far when it comes to talking football :thumbup:
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:17
Nobody is having a meltdown.
We finished fifth last season and added a better striker and what some describe as one of the best players in the Championship to our midfield.
If results go against us today then we will be 12th.
For some even questioning our performances is seen as being anti City. I think it is anti City not questioning why we are 5 places below where we finished last season despite strengthening the squad and while being able to turn over the average teams with our bullying style but get turned over regularly by the better teams without a whimper.
The season hasn’t finished yet you fool. Why compare last seasons finishing position with the current position when we are not even half way through the season? We were flirting around our current position for most of last season too and we punched above our weight to finish 5th, helped I’m no small part by Forest and Prestons complete capitulation post lockdown.
We had a big turnover of players in the summer, lost some key figures, taken the new players time to settle, no pre season, loads of players injured, squad isn’t covered in all areas because we are tightening our belt. There’s many,
many factors not least it’s the championship and you have no divine right to win football matches. There’s much bigger clubs than us doing a lot worse. Look at Derby and Forest compared to last season.
They just put a stat up on Sky and since the October international break we are 6th in the division, 3 points behind 2nd place and Norwich are running away with it. So it shows after a slow start we are going in the right direction. 15 points out of last 21. It’s not all doom and gloom.
You’re just a miserable sod. I don’t know why you bother “supporting” Cardiff it clearly doesn’t make you happy. Couldnt even enjoy the recent good form. You’re at your most active on here after a defeat, barely seen after a win. If I was you I’d look for a new hobby. One that makes you happy.
These are the type of team we need to look even close to matching if we have any aspirations of promotion.
They will not have many easier games than that this season. They passed through us and around us at will and it could and should have been more.
Even with the recent run we look destined to be a mid table team. We do alright against your physical teams with our style, your Birmingham's of this world, but ultimately come up short against teams that play a passing, quick style. It is alright if mid table is your main aim but we're not good enough to trouble the top teams enough to get promoted if we're being honest with ourselves.
No they aren't. They're far better than anyone else than anyone else in the division, except maybe Bournemouth (who we of course drew with)
We were beaten by the best side in the division, that doesn't make us mediocre.
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 15:18
Nobody is having a meltdown.
We finished fifth last season and added a better striker and what some describe as one of the best players in the Championship to our midfield.
If results go against us today then we will be 12th.
For some even questioning our performances is seen as being anti City. I think it is anti City not questioning why we are 5 places below where we finished last season despite strengthening the squad and while being able to turn over the average teams with our bullying style but get turned over regularly by the better teams without a whimper.
Spot on. A very balanced and reasoned post based on fact.
Eric the Half a Bee
19-12-20, 15:19
I'm sticking my neck out here Eric, especially as you will no doubt have the stats to back you up, but Vaulks and Ralls I would say create very little chances between them.
I would have them in the "dogged midfielder" bracket, but not that effective, especially closing down and shot stopping as we've seen over the last few weeks.
I do feel for Bacuna as the chances he's had in MF he's done well and been a victim of poor recruitment regarding the right back position.
Statistically he is no better than Vaulks or Ralls and is less influential in attack, in terms of passing, chances created and shots. Of course, stats don't always tell the whole picture.
I still think that Bacuna doesn't offer any great improvement. Harris must think the same or he'd consider someone different at right back. For us to move away from a long ball game, I reckon that we need a radical overhaul in midfield.
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 15:20
Well said. Without sounding like an arse licker you are the best poster on here by far when it comes to talking football :thumbup:
That is the funniest post that I have read in ages! Lol
We all have opinions which is why football is such a great sport but this is hilarious.
Statistically he is no better than Vaulks or Ralls and is less influential in attack, in terms of passing, chances created and shots. Of course, stats don't always tell the whole picture.
I still think that Bacuna doesn't offer any great improvement. Harris must think the same or he'd consider someone different at right back. For us to move away from a long ball game, I reckon that we need a radical overhaul in midfield.
I don't recall Bacuna being particularly brilliant in midfield
The real problem is Harris' insistence that Ralls can play as a 10, Ralls is far better when he plays deeper and we have a great 10 in Harry Wilson being wasted out wide
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:22
Spot on. A very balanced and reasoned post based on fact.
I wondered when you’d crawl out from under your rock. I knew it wouldn’t be long after a defeat.
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 15:22
No they aren't. They're far better than anyone else than anyone else in the division, except maybe Bournemouth (who we of course drew with)
We were beaten by the best side in the division, that doesn't make us mediocre.
Anyone who has watched us knows that we are mediocre. Not terrible (although we play terrible football) but mid table is exactly what we are (see the games against Norwich, Swansea, Bournemouth)
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 15:23
I wondered when you’d crawl out from under your rock.
Facts are quite telling and those who don’t like to face them often embarrass themselves.
Anyone who has watched us knows that we are mediocre. Not terrible (although we play terrible football) but mid table is exactly what we are (see the games against Norwich, Swansea, Bournemouth)
And he leaves out Watford.
And he leaves out Watford.
Doesn't fit their ridiculous narrative. We also played pretty well against Bournemouth so its strange he's put them in.
I don't think any of us are arguing we're an incredible side, but we clearly aren't mediocre
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:26
Facts are quite telling and those who don’t like to face them often embarrass themselves.
You are correct. The fact you are nowhere to be seen after a victory but straight on here after a defeat is very telling.
Bobby the Jack.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:28
Well said. Without sounding like an arse licker you are the best poster on here by far when it comes to talking football :thumbup:
Thank you kind sir. I’d argue Tuerto is a worthy challenger to that accolade but he’s had a Weston super on this thread.
The season hasn’t finished yet you fool. Why compare last seasons finishing position with the current position when we are not even half way through the season? We were flirting around our current position for most of last season too and we punched above our weight to finish 5th, helped I’m no small part by Forest and Prestons complete capitulation post lockdown.
We had a big turnover of players in the summer, lost some key figures, taken the new players time to settle, no pre season, loads of players injured, squad isn’t covered in all areas because we are tightening our belt. There’s many,
many factors not least it’s the championship and you have no divine right to win football matches. There’s much bigger clubs than us doing a lot worse. Look at Derby and Forest compared to last season.
They just put a stat up on Sky and since the October international break we are 6th in the division, 3 points behind 2nd place and Norwich are running away with it. So it shows after a slow start we are going in the right direction. 15 points out of last 21. It’s not all doom and gloom.
You’re just a miserable sod. I don’t know why you bother “supporting” Cardiff it clearly doesn’t make you happy. Couldnt even enjoy the recent good form. You’re at your most active on here after a defeat, barely seen after a win. If I was you I’d look for a new hobby. One that makes you happy.
Sadly for City teams don't get promoted in a mini league hand picked to show their most successful two months.
If you had a league for the two months prior to that then we would be bottom half.
You seem to be happy with the direction we're going and can see plenty that I can't. I see a mid table team who may surpass expectation but ultimately have little chance of going up through the play offs or otherwise.
Thanks for your concern for my happiness. I am very happy in most aspects of life. One of the most frustrating areas and what ultimately affects that happiness is watching the City especially overseen by a manager that can only play one way.
I don't recall Bacuna being particularly brilliant in midfield
The real problem is Harris' insistence that Ralls can play as a 10, Ralls is far better when he plays deeper and we have a great 10 in Harry Wilson being wasted out wide
I think you become a better player when your not in the team or in this case not in your best position.
Bacuna is a good championship midfielder and we arent suddenly going to be a passing side with him there.
Our best combination as a 2 is Ralls and Bacuna though.
Ralls is not a 10.
What I dont know is whether wed be better with someone else as a makeshift right back. I trust the managers judgement that there isnt.
No... he’s right. I’m not sure what game you were watching either.
We had no cover on either flank... Bacuna and Cunningham in particular were both too advanced AND too narrow. They literally needed on pass to a player in the middle of the park to draw one of those 2 even further out of position and then it was a simple knock into acres of space... they must have done it 4 or 5 times in about 10 minutes
We had literally no answer with the way we set up
We decided to sit deep, a bit more than normal. If you do that against teams that play then they'll punish you, if you give good players space to play in then it means trouble. It's that simple. Our tactics were based on defending deep and getting something from a set piece, that was the entirety of the 90 minutes. In my opinion that's not what we should've done. Norwich had loads of space to move into, that's right up their street. We don't have to be good on the ball to squeeze the space and force errors. I still don't think that we'd have got anything, although it would've meant that we showed some endeavour, a will to trouble Norwich and make the work for their win. We did none of that. If you're happy to lose like that then that's your business. i'm not.
Cardiff manager Neil Harris:
"To me it looked like a game too far for us. We looked leggy, we looked laboured at times and we made errors we don't usually make.
"When you play against good teams you can't give them opportunities like we did. I can't fault the players' effort.
"The goals summed us up - we got split in midfield, half a yard off all over the pitch, and when you give players like they've got an opportunity, even from 25 yards, they find the bottom corners. They're Premier League players.
"As much as we weren't at our levels, I think they showed their class and it's something for us to aspire to, that quality. They're top for a reason."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55283942
Thank you kind sir. I’d argue Tuerto is a worthy challenger to that accolade but he’s had a Weston super on this thread.
Kicked your arse butt.......... :hehe:
Just really surprised he tried Ralls at 10 again. I thought the first half at QPR showed once and for all that he cannot affect the game in there. Wilson was MOTM on Wednesday playing in that position. It doesn't make any sense to revert to something that we already know doesn't work in favour of something that's recently been affactive... That's my only gripe. Norwich are were better all over the park & deservedly won the match.
JR, would you be happy and think we have done well if we finish the season 10th?
Genuine question.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:44
JR, would you be happy and think we have done well if we finish the season 10th?
Genuine question.
Depends how many points from play offs and finishing 10th. If we flirt around the play offs and take the season to the death,which I think we will, then yes I’ll accept 10th. The problem with people like you is you want a change of style (so do I by the way), you want to play the youngsters, you want promotion, you want it all. It’s not going to happen overnight with this squad of players.
I’m happy Colin has gone and happy to accept it could be a few seasons before we are proper contenders again.
I’m happy to accept that we are in transition and evolving. Could the football be better? Yes. Is it as bad as we saw under Colin? Not a chance.
It’s going to take a few transfer windows to sort out. Any reasonable person should see that.
Do I wish we could play like Norwich? Absolutely. Do I think Falke could get us playing like that with the tools Harris has to work with? No fecking way.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:45
Kicked your arse butt.......... :hehe:
Not this time pal. :hehe:
Not this time pal. :hehe:
Well, i suppose it's about expectations and what we want from our team. I expected more in terms of pressing them and limiting the space, you see it a different way, i respect that. It's about opinions. Norwich are a very good outfit at this level, i just think that we made it easier for them.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:49
Cardiff manager Neil Harris:
"To me it looked like a game too far for us. We looked leggy, we looked laboured at times and we made errors we don't usually make.
"When you play against good teams you can't give them opportunities like we did. I can't fault the players' effort.
"The goals summed us up - we got split in midfield, half a yard off all over the pitch, and when you give players like they've got an opportunity, even from 25 yards, they find the bottom corners. They're Premier League players.
"As much as we weren't at our levels, I think they showed their class and it's something for us to aspire to, that quality. They're top for a reason."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55283942
Refreshing honesty. I like that.
Colin would be bemoaning the ref who was very lenient to their persistent fouling.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:50
Well, i suppose it's about expectations and what we want from our team. I expected more in terms of pressing them and limiting the space, you see it a different way, i respect that. It's about opinions. Norwich are a very good outfit at this level, i just think that we made it easier for them.
The way I see it we didn’t have the answer. Whatever we tried they had a solution. Very good side, I’d kill to watch football like that down here.
Depends how many points from play offs and finishing 10th. If we flirt around the play offs and take the season to the death,which I think we will, then yes I’ll accept 10th. The problem with people like you is you want a change of style (so do I by the way), you want to play the youngsters, you want promotion, you want it all. It’s not going to happen overnight with this squad of players.
I’m happy Colin has gone and happy to accept it could be a few seasons before we are proper contenders again.
I’m happy to accept that we are in transition and evolving. Could the football be better? Yes. Is it as bad as we saw under Colin? Not a chance.
It’s going to take a few transfer windows to sort out. Any reasonable person should see that.
That would be all well and good if we hadn't gone out and replaced Warnock with the manager that played most Warnock like.
10th and building something I would be fine with. 10th and playing a less successful style of Warnock ball and being told that something is being built when it isn't is something else.
People like yourself would dress up a relegation as a chance to regroup and go again. It takes different mentalities and viewpoints to create a successful message board like this one though.
What I will say about transition under Harris is ask the Millwall fans who saw him do it to them. I think he has one way of playing and that is that. For me it won't achieve success in this league. You see something that I can't evidently. The biggest worry for me, especially recently, is him seeing us be passive against other teams and failing to address or change it up when most of this message board could see it wasn't working. Two in the middle against the Jacks. Being passed around and through today being a few examples.
The aim is promotion. You think he will achieve it if given time. I can't see it happening under him. We will see who is right.
Cardiff manager Neil Harris:
"To me it looked like a game too far for us. We looked leggy, we looked laboured at times and we made errors we don't usually make.
"When you play against good teams you can't give them opportunities like we did. I can't fault the players' effort.
"The goals summed us up - we got split in midfield, half a yard off all over the pitch, and when you give players like they've got an opportunity, even from 25 yards, they find the bottom corners. They're Premier League players.
"As much as we weren't at our levels, I think they showed their class and it's something for us to aspire to, that quality. They're top for a reason."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55283942
So Harris has given himself and the team a pass. That's generous of him.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 15:58
That would be all well and good if we hadn't gone out and replaced Warnock with the manager that played most Warnock like.
10th and building something I would be fine with. 10th and playing a less successful style of Warnock ball and being told that something is being built when it isn't is something else.
People like yourself would dress up a relegation as a chance to regroup and go again. It takes different mentalities and viewpoints to create a successful message board like this one though.
What I will say about transition under Harris is ask the Millwall fans who saw him do it to them. I think he has one way of playing and that is that. For me it won't achieve success in this league. You see something that I can't evidently. The biggest worry for me, especially recently, is him seeing us be passive against other teams and failing to address or change it up when most of this message board could see it wasn't working. Two in the middle against the Jacks. Being passed around and through today being a few examples.
The aim is promotion. You think he will achieve it if given time. I can't see it happening under him. We will see who is right.
Groundhog Day
Heard it all before.
Go and stick pins in your Neil Harris Voodoo doll Ive had my fill of you for one day.
Groundhog Day
You could say the same about your constant refusal to see his all too clear failings.
As I say we will see who is ultimately right. There is a very clear difference here between success and failure in giving Harris the chance. The board want promotion. If he doesn't get that then he will have failed. In the eyes of the board, at this time they will view this as a failure as they wanted top six.
Me posting here achieves nothing. Butting heads achieves nothing. If we get promoted I will say that I am wrong. If we ultimately fail and not move from plan A though I will say that I told you so.
Mr Soul '68
19-12-20, 16:02
Decent effort. Norwich are a very good side going forward, lots of clever movement and their forwards find space. They're top for a reason. It highlights a lack of quality for us in attack - they look inventive, we look a little predictable. It works against lots of sides in this division, just it looks laboured and uninventive against the best.
Far better effort than last Saturday despite the result
It works against the average and mediocre teams of this division. We struggle against the good ones.
The way I see it we didn’t have the answer. Whatever we tried they had a solution. Very good side, I’d kill to watch football like that down here.
:thumbup:
It works against the average and mediocre teams of this division. We struggle against the good ones.
We do.
It is Harris acceptance of the inevitable that frustrates me though.
It is a game of opinions though. Some on this very thread think we could have got a draw. I must have watched a different game because if we had lost by a few more goals we couldn't have complained.
The way I see it we didn’t have the answer. Whatever we tried they had a solution. Very good side, I’d kill to watch football like that down here.
Are they that good really? I felt we were far too soft all over the pitch and made it about as easy an afternoon as they could have had.
No one can argue they don't have a better squad than us, of course they do. They play prettier football too of course.
But it's still a Norwich that finished the Premier league season on 21 points, 13 behind the other 2 relegated teams.
They spent fairly modestly whilst there and again this summer. Best thing they did was keep Farke when most clubs would have got rid in the hope of someone turning it around.
A solid, stable, well run club that will likely be top 2, they really shouldn't be lightyears ahead of us though and more fool us if they genuinely are.
Will Osei-Tutu be fit again after Christmas? We really need Bacuna back in midfield.
Cardiff manager Neil Harris:
"To me it looked like a game too far for us. We looked leggy, we looked laboured at times and we made errors we don't usually make.
"When you play against good teams you can't give them opportunities like we did. I can't fault the players' effort.
"The goals summed us up - we got split in midfield, half a yard off all over the pitch, and when you give players like they've got an opportunity, even from 25 yards, they find the bottom corners. They're Premier League players.
"As much as we weren't at our levels, I think they showed their class and it's something for us to aspire to, that quality. They're top for a reason."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55283942
I said in another thread yesterday that we weren't expected to get anything from the game today and would have taken a draw there and then.
Problem was we were way off getting a point, even though it was only 2 nil.
We were beaten in virtually every department, maybe apart from chances from set pieces, which we had quite a few of.
We didn't get a lot of help from the referee, something we've had to get used to especially on the road, but their pressing when we had the ball made us retreat whereas when they had the ball, our pressing saw them pass it through us and create forward space.
The fact is that if Pukki was in any kind of form today, it would have been a lot worse for us and, whilst we can be critical of our own performance, credit must be given to a side which is a lot better than ours.
A struggling Premier league team they look like to me.
I'm just hoping that we can beat the sides around us and get a couple of key positions strengthened, even if it means drafting in some inexperienced kids.
If we can do that then the play off should still be within reach.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 16:11
Are they that good really? I felt we were far too soft all over the pitch and made it about as easy an afternoon as they could have had.
No one can argue they don't have a better squad than us, of course they do. They play prettier football too of course.
But it's still a Norwich that finished the Premier league season on 21 points, 13 behind the other 2 relegated teams.
They spent fairly modestly whilst there and again this summer. Best thing they did was keep Farke when most clubs would have got rid in the hope of someone turning it around.
A solid, stable, well run club that will likely be top 2, they really shouldn't be lightyears ahead of us though and more fool us if they genuinely are.
Buendia and Cantwell are far too good for this division. Aaron’s too. Thankfully Pukki forgot his shooting boots today.
They spent wisely. We on the other hand did not. Our last 4 transfer windows under Warnock were an absolute joke.
True, but we COULD have scored a couple...
then again, Naarritch COULD have scored 5 or 6.
I think the xG will be fairly close for that game.
we lost to a good team but we were compatitive
Buendia and Cantwell are far too good for this division. Aaron’s too. Thankfully Pukki forgot his shooting boots today.
They spent wisely. We on the other hand did not. Our last 4 transfer windows under Warnock were an absolute joke.
Cant argue with that.:thumbup:
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 16:28
Are they that good really? I felt we were far too soft all over the pitch and made it about as easy an afternoon as they could have had.
No one can argue they don't have a better squad than us, of course they do. They play prettier football too of course.
But it's still a Norwich that finished the Premier league season on 21 points, 13 behind the other 2 relegated teams.
They spent fairly modestly whilst there and again this summer. Best thing they did was keep Farke when most clubs would have got rid in the hope of someone turning it around.
A solid, stable, well run club that will likely be top 2, they really shouldn't be lightyears ahead of us though and more fool us if they genuinely are.
You make an interesting point in that their season in the Premier League was far worse than ours (despite everyone saying how good they were!) and yet they seem to have coped with relegation much better than we have.
Is that due to them maintaining consistency by not sacking Farke as you say, or does it run deeper, in that their club is run more sensibly than ours (not sacking Farke being a good example, but also I sense a more progressive approach on and off the pitch)?
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 16:31
You could say the same about your constant refusal to see his all too clear failings.
As I say we will see who is ultimately right. There is a very clear difference here between success and failure in giving Harris the chance. The board want promotion. If he doesn't get that then he will have failed. In the eyes of the board, at this time they will view this as a failure as they wanted top six.
Me posting here achieves nothing. Butting heads achieves nothing. If we get promoted I will say that I am wrong. If we ultimately fail and not move from plan A though I will say that I told you so.
An excellent post.
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 16:36
And he leaves out Watford.
You forgot the footballing master class that we apparently handed out at Stoke :-)
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 16:44
Doesn't fit their ridiculous narrative. We also played pretty well against Bournemouth so its strange he's put them in.
I don't think any of us are arguing we're an incredible side, but we clearly aren't mediocre
This is a serious question and I’m not trying to be provocative here in anyway: do you honestly think that ‘we clearly aren’t mediocre’?
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 16:47
Buendia and Cantwell are far too good for this division. Aaron’s too. Thankfully Pukki forgot his shooting boots today.
They spent wisely. We on the other hand did not. Our last 4 transfer windows under Warnock were an absolute joke.
There is probably a lot of truth in this especially the last part.
See another post on this thread about how their season in the Premier League was way worse than ours, and yet they are in much better shape all round than we are :-(
There is probably a lot of truth in this especially the last part.
See another post on this thread about how their season in the Premier League was way worse than ours, and yet they are in much better shape all round than we are :-(
Shit player appointments and hardly any output from the youth academy, for whatever reason. That's put paid to any developmental process. Look at the jacks, they've sold anything and everything worth a shilling, but their recruitment policy and youth development has kept them in touch.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 16:56
You could say the same about your constant refusal to see his all too clear failings.
As I say we will see who is ultimately right. There is a very clear difference here between success and failure in giving Harris the chance. The board want promotion. If he doesn't get that then he will have failed. In the eyes of the board, at this time they will view this as a failure as they wanted top six.
Me posting here achieves nothing. Butting heads achieves nothing. If we get promoted I will say that I am wrong. If we ultimately fail and not move from plan A though I will say that I told you so.
What are you mumbling on about? How can you say I told you so? Did I say Harris would get us promoted ? No. I’m a realist, I think he’s working with a limited squad.
I stick up for him because I don’t believe sacking the manager every time they have a bad run is the answer and also the likes of you and your fellow deluded entitied idiots crying after every defeat, even moaning when we win like we have a divine right to win every game and win it in style get on my tits.
The board can wish for what they want until they give him all the tools for a proper promotion charge, as they did Warnock, then it is highly unlikely we will achieve it.
The squad we have is certainly not good enough for automatic promotion, probably not even for play offs so I don’t view Harris not achieving play offs as a failure. The 3 sides that come down have far better squads, so do Brentford who splashed 10m on a striker this season, Forest have thrown silly money at it this season, Swansea have signed well and still have a 20m player upfront for them, Stoke have a good squad. There’s 7 teams we have no divine right finishing above, there’s probably more. Knocking around the top 10 is where we are as a club at the moment. Play offs again will be a massive achievement.
I do find it quite laughable you want to measure him against the desires of a men who you have been most vocal about them being useless and haven’t got a clue. Not that I disagree but if you think sacking Harris and a new manager working with the same players will magically make us nailed on for promotion then it will be me coming to you saying I told you so when that doesn’t happen.
splott parker
19-12-20, 16:57
And he leaves out Watford.
And Stoke, they must be fuming being in the top 7 or 8 being beat at home by mediocre City.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 17:02
And Stoke, they must be fuming being in the top 7 or 8 being beat at home by mediocre City.
And Huddersfield that useless team we beat that have just beaten Watford today and are only 5 points off at offs themselves.
splott parker
19-12-20, 17:07
We all know that the football isn’t great and sides like Norwich, who’s are now 5 points clear of the field, will, of course, find us out as they have done to most others this season. But, 5 wins out of 7, 2 of them away to clubs above us and the 2 solitary defeats to the runaway leaders and the side in 3rd place is a far cry from what was being predicted five or six weeks ago. Results wise even the most pessimistic on here have to admit that things are looking a little rosier than our bleak start to the season.
LeningradCowboy
19-12-20, 17:10
We all know that the football isn’t great and sides like Norwich, who’s are now 5 points clear of the field, will, of course, find us out as they have done to most others this season. But, 5 wins out of 7, 2 of them away to clubs above us and the 2 solitary defeats to the runaway leaders and the side in 3rd place is a far cry from what was being predicted five or six weeks ago. Results wise even the most pessimistic on here have to admit that things are looking a little rosier than our bleak start to the season.
A couple of wins over Christmas and New Year would put us on track to finish with 70 points, which was enough to sneak into the play-offs last season.
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 17:13
And Stoke, they must be fuming being in the top 7 or 8 being beat at home by mediocre City.
Mediocre? We were truly dreadful that night. Everyone conceded that.
Mediocre? We were truly dreadful that night. Everyone conceded that.
Scores on the doors that count
What are you mumbling on about? How can you say I told you so? Did I say Harris would get us promoted ? No. I’m a realist, I think he’s working with a limited squad.
I stick up for him because I don’t believe sacking the manager every time they have a bad run is the answer and also the likes of you and your fellow deluded entitied idiots crying after every defeat, even moaning when we win like we have a divine right to win every game and win it in style get on my tits.
The board can wish for what they want until they give him all the tools for a proper promotion charge, as they did Warnock, then it is highly unlikely we will achieve it.
The squad we have is certainly not good enough for automatic promotion, probably not even for play offs so I don’t view Harris not achieving play offs as a failure. The 3 sides that come down have far better squads, so do Brentford who splashed 10m on a striker this season, Forest have thrown silly money at it this season, Swansea have signed well and still have a 20m player upfront for them, Stoke have a good squad. There’s 7 teams we have no divine right finishing above, there’s probably more. Knocking around the top 10 is where we are as a club at the moment. Play offs again will be a massive achievement.
I do find it quite laughable you want to measure him against the desires of a men who you have been most vocal about them being useless and haven’t got a clue. Not that I disagree but if you think sacking Harris and a new manager working with the same players will magically make us nailed on for promotion then it will be me coming to you saying I told you so when that doesn’t happen.
So you don't think he will take us up?
He finished 5th last season and he is making progress according to people like you.
You say I mumble on and am deluded and then say you're happy with 10th. :hehe:
No wonder you seem happy with what we're currently producing by way of performances.
I think I'll leave it there. The board bring in a man and give him targets and you think he is doing well. The twist in all of this though is that he is doing well by your standards and 10th is fine. You call me deluded and an idiot but think that a team that were relegated from the league above and finished 5th last season is progressing if they finish 10th.
splott parker
19-12-20, 17:21
Mediocre? We were truly dreadful that night. Everyone conceded that.
And so Stoke must be fuming, because as poor as we were, we came away with the three points. (A regular occurrence in our last promotion year, grinding out results on many occasion, not pretty but it got us to second place), your point is?
Bobby Dandruff
19-12-20, 17:21
Scores on the doors that count
VERY analytical! Lol
We all know that the football isn’t great and sides like Norwich, who’s are now 5 points clear of the field, will, of course, find us out as they have done to most others this season. But, 5 wins out of 7, 2 of them away to clubs above us and the 2 solitary defeats to the runaway leaders and the side in 3rd place is a far cry from what was being predicted five or six weeks ago. Results wise even the most pessimistic on here have to admit that things are looking a little rosier than our bleak start to the season.
Most definitely.
But what JR said: "Our last 4 transfer windows under Warnock were an absolute joke" is what concerns me most. How is Harris going to get us out of that mess? And if he does, how long will it take and what sort of team will we be then?
Harris' remit apparently is to get us into the playoffs. That is the problem. His remit should be to rebuild the team so that next time we get promoted we have a fighting chance of staying up.
Most definitely.
But what JR said: "Our last 4 transfer windows under Warnock were an absolute joke" is what concerns me most. How is Harris going to get us out of that mess? And if he does, how long will it take and what sort of team will we be then?
Harris' remit apparently is to get us into the playoffs. That is the problem. His remit should be to rebuild the team so that next time we get promoted we have a fighting chance of staying up.
This style of football won't keep us up if we were to get promoted.
If you give technically better teams than you the majority of the ball and are too passive with your press then you get played through and picked apart as we did today.
Buendia and Cantwell are far too good for this division. Aaron’s too. Thankfully Pukki forgot his shooting boots today.
They spent wisely. We on the other hand did not. Our last 4 transfer windows under Warnock were an absolute joke.
Fully agree on the three players you mention. Cantwell came on for the second half against us and was impressive. Aaron’s and Buendia are top flight quality too. As with Bournemouth they have managed to keep hold of a lot of their better players and it shows.
splott parker
19-12-20, 18:18
This style of football won't keep us up if we were to get promoted.
If you give technically better teams than you the majority of the ball and are too passive with your press then you get played through and picked apart as we did today.
Whatever style of football is played by the three promoted clubs, staying up is still very difficult unless you’re hugely bankrolled, the players you come up against are so much better. Norwich found that out, Sheffield Utd somehow got away with it for a season, look at them now, West Brom struggling. Wolves have got the money to survive and even do well, Leeds hmmmm, we’ll see. Norwich are obviously technically better than us, but came up against a different class last season. It’s not so much styles as quality of player.
Elwood Blues
19-12-20, 18:18
Spot on. A very balanced and reasoned post based on fact.
Funny how all the posts that agree with you are balanced and reasoned.
Anyone who disagrees on the other hand.............
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 18:25
Whatever style of football is played by the three promoted clubs, staying up is still very difficult unless you’re hugely bankrolled, the players you come up against are so much better. Norwich found that out, Sheffield Utd somehow got away with it for a season, look at them now, West Brom struggling. Wolves have got the money to survive and even do well, Leeds hmmmm, we’ll see. Norwich are obviously technically better than us, but came up against a different class last season. It’s not so much styles as quality of player.
Youre wasting your time. Well thought out and reasoned arguments are wasted on him.
Steve the Tea
19-12-20, 18:26
I'm shocked that playing Joe Ralls as a number 10 didn't work out for us today.
Not.
It never does.
StT.
<><
Fully agree on the three players you mention. Cantwell came on for the second half against us and was impressive. Aaron’s and Buendia are top flight quality too. As with Bournemouth they have managed to keep hold of a lot of their better players and it shows.
Cantwell could've played while driving a rolls royce today and still had space to park a corsa. He's decent, give him time and space, he's a world beater.
Steve the Tea
19-12-20, 18:32
There is probably a lot of truth in this especially the last part.
See another post on this thread about how their season in the Premier League was way worse than ours, and yet they are in much better shape all round than we are :-(
They went up with a good Championship side; spent nothing in the PL, sold no-one of note when they came down and still have a good Championship side. But with a good Championship side in the PL they stayed bottom all season.
StT.
<><
StT.
Had a look at the form guide covering past six games before today's result and we had lost three times to teams in the top seventeen and three times to teams in bottom seven from nineteen games. We had picked up nine more points that Bristol over the six games and our last bad result was against a side (Coventry) who were just starting an eight game unbeaten run.
Our upcoming games were against Norwich, the only team who could be described as running away with the league given the gap between them and third and with the second best form over past six games, and Bretford who had the third best form over the past six games. They were not going to be easy games.
We do not have the biggest squad and many games will be decided this year by who is struggling more to cope with fatigue/injuries on the day. For that reason I think we're 8th/9th best in the league and will do well to get in the play-offs, however we really shouldn't be asking if we're mediocre having lost to the league leaders when we have four academy players on the bench.
blue lewj, you seem to want longer term planning then routinely forget that longer term planning doesn't necessarily produce instant results/performances when we've had a poor day.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 18:40
So you don't think he will take us up?
He finished 5th last season and he is making progress according to people like you.
You say I mumble on and am deluded and then say you're happy with 10th. :hehe:
No wonder you seem happy with what we're currently producing by way of performances.
I think I'll leave it there. The board bring in a man and give him targets and you think he is doing well. The twist in all of this though is that he is doing well by your standards and 10th is fine. You call me deluded and an idiot but think that a team that were relegated from the league above and finished 5th last season is progressing if they finish 10th.
A team that was relegated from the league above after 1 season, lost their best players, signed a load of shit and were struggling in the bottom half of the table when Harris took over, somehow gets them to play offs against all the odds but then had to rip up the squad again this summer, no pre season, new players taking time to settle, best player and reason we made the play offs last season with 18 goal contribution gets injured for the season but still has us in contention for play offs again this season even though our first 11 is decimated and squad not as deep as last season. Yes, I’d suggest anywhere between 5th -10th would be acceptable all things considered.
A team that was relegated from the league above after 1 season, lost their best players, signed a load of shit and were struggling in the bottom half of the table when Harris took over, somehow gets them to play offs against all the odds but then had to rip up the squad again this summer, no pre season, new players taking time to settle, best player and reason we made the play offs last season with 18 goal contribution gets injured for the season but still has us in contention for play offs again this season even though our first 11 is decimated and squad not as deep as last season. Yes, I’d suggest anywhere between 5th -10th would be acceptable all things considered.
This is so correct.
A team that was relegated from the league above after 1 season, lost their best players, signed a load of shit and were struggling in the bottom half of the table when Harris took over, somehow gets them to play offs against all the odds but then had to rip up the squad again this summer, no pre season, new players taking time to settle, best player and reason we made the play offs last season with 18 goal contribution gets injured for the season but still has us in contention for play offs again this season even though our first 11 is decimated and squad not as deep as last season. Yes, I’d suggest anywhere between 5th -10th would be acceptable all things considered.
That's all well and good, and i'm not going to dispute any of it, but what is Harris attempting to implement-is he striving to compete with the teams that are going to go up this season due to no small part on how they play? I can't see it. I don't care if we finish mid table, i'm not into getting up the table by any means possible, because it isn't sustainable. I do blame Warnock and the idiots in the board room and i don't think that Harris either has the time, inclination or is brave enough to get us in a position where players are comfortable in possession, can interchange position,have the ability to dictate play and tempo, in short, control a game through good practice.
Harris seems like an honest decent bloke, he has come in after a manager who in my opinion has set us back, i just can't see him having the ability to turn us into a side that can compete with teams that play like Norwich, Swansea, Bournemouth, Brentford etc
Youre wasting your time. Well thought out and reasoned arguments are wasted on him.
You lost me at Harris doing well with finishing tenth. I can't take you seriously anymore.
What is success next season? Avoiding relegation to League 1? :hehe:
That's all well and good, and i'm not going to dispute any of it, but what is Harris attempting to implement-is he striving to compete with the teams that are going to go up this season due to no small part on how they play? I can't see it. I don't care if we finish mid table, i'm not into getting up the table by any means possible, because it isn't sustainable. I do blame Warnock and the idiots in the board room and i don't think that Harris either has the time, inclination or is brave enough to get us in a position where players are comfortable in possession, can interchange position,have the ability to dictate play and tempo, in short, control a game through good practice.
Harris seems like an honest decent bloke, he has come in after a manager who in my opinion has set us back, i just can't see him having the ability to turn us into a side that can compete with teams that play like Norwich, Swansea, Bournemouth, Brentford etc
I'd agree with that take on it.
I would be happy with a manager dropping down the league a little if he was implementing and changing something. He just signs players and puts them into his team which has one shape and one style. The same style he has had all the time he has been here and the same style he had at Millwall.
Harris seems to have woken up to the size of the task also. He has gone from a baulchy attitude and saying that Cardiff deserves a team in the Premier League to fawning over how good Norwich are and accepting defeat with as little as a whimper.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 19:08
Maybe Harris is just a stepping stone to a different direction. He’s direct like Warnock although not as direct, we do try and play a little bit more, and so given the players he would have been inheriting it was a good fit at the time. He’s already shifted some of the less technical players (Peltier, Flint, Pato) whilst keeping us competitive and then when the next manager comes in it’s not quite the basic squad that Warnock left. More transfer windows are required to address central midfield but all 4 of them are here for at least another 2 seasons so easier said than done.
Or maybe he’s just another Slade and the board will be happy with him keeping us ticking along. Knocking around in the top half, maybe get into those last play off spots like last season. know they say top 6 is the remit but theyve hardly given him the tools to make that a given.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 19:10
You lost me at Harris doing well with finishing tenth. I can't take you seriously anymore.
What is success next season? Avoiding relegation to League 1? :hehe:
I’ve never seen a man so happy when City lose and gutted when they win. Well apart from Bobby Dandruff. You really are a strange one. Should change our name to Cardiff Jack.
splott parker
19-12-20, 19:14
I'd agree with that take on it.
I would be happy with a manager dropping down the league a little if he was implementing and changing something. He just signs players and puts them into his team which has one shape and one style. The same style he has had all the time he has been here and the same style he had at Millwall.
Harris seems to have woken up to the size of the task also. He has gone from a baulchy attitude and saying that Cardiff deserves a team in the Premier League to fawning over how good Norwich are and accepting defeat with as little as a whimper.
A f*cking what attitude? :hehe::hehe:
Maybe Harris is just a stepping stone to a different direction. He’s direct like Warnock although not as direct, we do try and play a little bit more, and so given the players he would have been inheriting it was a good fit at the time. He’s already shifted some of the less technical players (Peltier, Flint, Pato) whilst keeping us competitive and then when the next manager comes in it’s not quite the basic squad that Warnock left. More transfer windows are required to address central midfield but all 4 of them are here for at least another 2 seasons so easier said than done.
Or maybe he’s just another Slade and the board will be happy with him keeping us ticking along. Knocking around in the top half, maybe get into those last play off spots like last season. know they say top 6 is the remit but theyve hardly given him the tools to make that a given.
Oh but they have according to him. Harris has said a few times that he is happy with his squad. Is he happy with it or is it lacking in most areas? He can't have it both ways.
I'm not sure what you think any more. In one day you have gone from thinking he is the man for the job and is progressing to saying he may be a stepping stone or Slade type appointment. Is he going to succeed here or not?
I for one am not of the mindset that to change a footballing philosophy you have to implement that through managers in a step by step process. That only happens if the people in charge at the club know what they're doing and are thinking in that sense. If you told Tan that we needed to change the footballing style he would probably put tassels on the bottom of the shorts.
I’ve never seen a man so happy when City lose and gutted when they win. Well apart from Bobby Dandruff. You really are a strange one. Should change our name to Cardiff Jack.
Yeah, but that has nothing to do with what I posted does it.
Stick with saying that a tenth placed finish is success and I'll aim a little higher.
Harris is the man/a stepping stone/no better than Slade ***delete as appropriate.
Talk about covering all the bases :hehe:
the other bob wilson
19-12-20, 19:23
A team that was relegated from the league above after 1 season, lost their best players, signed a load of shit and were struggling in the bottom half of the table when Harris took over, somehow gets them to play offs against all the odds but then had to rip up the squad again this summer, no pre season, new players taking time to settle, best player and reason we made the play offs last season with 18 goal contribution gets injured for the season but still has us in contention for play offs again this season even though our first 11 is decimated and squad not as deep as last season. Yes, I’d suggest anywhere between 5th -10th would be acceptable all things considered.
I don’t get how the squad was ripped up as you put it. We’ve got the same keeper, same centre backs and left back, same midfielders, only one winger has left and Tomlin is injured. Harris is unlucky with what has happened at right back, but he’s the one who left us with just one specialist in that position- right back apart, I think the squad is stronger than the one which finished fifth last season.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 19:24
Oh but they have according to him. Harris has said a few times that he is happy with his squad. Is he happy with it or is it lacking in most areas? He can't have it both ways.
I'm not sure what you think any more. In one day you have gone from thinking he is the man for the job and is progressing to saying he may be a stepping stone or Slade type appointment. Is he going to succeed here or not?
I for one am not of the mindset that to change a footballing philosophy you have to implement that through managers in a step by step process. That only happens if the people in charge at the club know what they're doing and are thinking in that sense. If you told Tan that we needed to change the footballing style he would probably put tassels on the bottom of the shorts.
I wasn’t speaking to you Linus I was answering Tuerto.
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 19:25
I don’t get how the squad was ripped up as you put it. We’ve got the same keeper, same centre backs and left back, same midfielders, only one winger has left and Tomlin is injured. Harris is unlucky with what has happened at right back, but he’s the one who left us with just one specialist in that position- right back apart, I think the squad is stronger than the one which finished fifth last season.
Squad Bob. Squad. Not first X1. Squad.
I wasn’t speaking to you Linus I was answering Tuerto.
Nice one.
Have a good evening.
10th :hehe:
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 19:29
Nice one.
Have a good evening.
10th :hehe:
Have a shit Xmas.
Have a shit Xmas.
10th though :hehe:
J R Hartley
19-12-20, 19:30
10th though :hehe:
Realist
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