View Full Version : Stupid quarantine rules in Wales...do I ignore it?
Cowbridge Blue
04-06-21, 14:53
Looking to visit home next month for the first time in a couple of years.
The missus and I have had 2 Pfizer jabs - more protected than most readers on here - and will arrive at Heathrow, collect a car and travel direct to extended family in England for quarantine. Since the US is on the amber list, we have to buy 2 tests each (at 170 pounds) to use on day 2 and day 8; if negative on day 10 we are free to travel into Wales.
England, however, also offers a day 5 quarantine release by purchasing an additional test and if that shows negative you've bought yourself out of quarantine (that's seems stupid but anyway...) . I've seen nothing in WAG's statements (including today's) about rules for ex-pats or visitors wanting to visit Wales so I called WAG today to check whether the 5-day England buy-out will free us to get into Wales on day 6 after arrival in UK.
Surprisingly I got a real person without too much delay (applause for that) but it was with regret that the spokesperson advised that Wales doesn't recognise the validity of the England 5-day release and, whilst appreciating the frustration of two systems running side by side the rules in Wales mean we must see out 10 days of quarantine after arriving in UK.
I recognise Wales is leading the way, data wise, in UK so Drakeford can justifiably point to the success of his Covid policy but doesn't there come a time when overkill is reached and precautions become too onerous and unnecessary?
Readers on this Board have undergone long, hard lockdowns to get where you are today in returning to normality (definitely tougher that I have here in Iowa) so my simple question is...do I ignore the quarantine and arrive back 'home' after 5 days and 2 negative tests as is permitted in England?
Wash DC Blue
04-06-21, 15:58
It’s tough Mate.
I’ve not been home in 3 and 1/2 years or seen my dad in 18 months.
I think that if you’ve had the vaccines and the tests you should be able to go to Wales after England let you out.
Cowbridge Blue
04-06-21, 16:35
Thanks DC, be interesting to see if my enquiry generates more interest than it has so far.
I assume WAG's rules for Wales have the force of law behind them rather than merely decisions by Cabinet or First Minister.
I have a UK passport not a Welsh one and if the rules in England are satisfied after 5 days isn't that the same as allowing English residents into Wales which I believe is now permitted?
rightsaidfred
04-06-21, 17:01
I have a UK passport too but up until a few weeks ago I couldn't travel around the UK from my home in Wales. Perhaps if you fly direct into Cardiff International airport you won't have too many problems. Good luck
Wales isn't being as cavalier with people's health as Boris and following the science hence no 5 day release. I know in England the fine is £10, 000 each and its been claimed 30,000 people are checked each week to ensure they are complying.
I think the fine in Wales may be lower than the fine in England.
Cowbridge Blue
04-06-21, 18:05
I have a UK passport too but up until a few weeks ago I couldn't travel around the UK from my home in Wales. Perhaps if you fly direct into Cardiff International airport you won't have too many problems. Good luck
Thanks fred but I'm pretty sure it would still be a 10 day quarantine.
Flights - That's what we've done with KLM over the last decade; at the moment KLM are asking $2300pp and it seems they've suspended their City Hopper from Amsterdam to CWL until August. Also, having a stop-over in Europe would also initiate the 10 days as the EU are sticking with the Schengen Agreement. We're booked with Icelandair, short stopover in Reykjavik but the island is on UK's Green list. Car rental is also a nightmare with costs in crazyworld as the providers cut their fleets during the pandemic.
Whether you want to try to have an earlier test or not, I doubt you'll be able to get out of the hotel. Pretty sure your onward destination will need to be confirmed, so the 5 day option wont be available.
If arriving in the UK direct from Iceland the clocks starts ticking as soon as you depart on your flight to Iceland so that will help
Here's the guidance https://gov.wales/rules-foreign-travel-and-wales-coronavirus-covid-19-html
A Quiet Monkfish
04-06-21, 18:39
If the 'rules' stated you had to stick a carrot in your ear, would you do it ? So long as you're not harming anyone do what you want. None of us are getting any younger.
Des Parrot
04-06-21, 18:43
do I ignore the quarantine and arrive back 'home' after 5 days and 2 negative tests as is permitted in England?
Well I’ve learnt something new, I had no idea about the 5 day test not being recognised in Wales, I had my latest yesterday. I’ve continued to travel regularly (& legally) throughout, I’ve done about a ten fights and must be roughly 30 tests. I’ve also never filled in a Wales specific locator form!
For tests, I’d shop around, I’m now using a company called Dante, £58 per test, £174 total for the 2,5 & 8 for home tests
Thanks DC, be interesting to see if my enquiry generates more interest than it has so far.
I assume WAG's rules for Wales have the force of law behind them rather than merely decisions by Cabinet or First Minister.
I have a UK passport not a Welsh one and if the rules in England are satisfied after 5 days isn't that the same as allowing English residents into Wales which I believe is now permitted?
I went back to Wales a couple of months ago. I think you should just do the 5 day test and release in England. Assuming you're negative then surely you're treated as having just crossed the border after that? Apart from the ridiculous test costs, the biggest pain was the queue on arrival to get through immigration at Heathrow.
If the 'rules' stated you had to stick a carrot in your ear, would you do it ? So long as you're not harming anyone do what you want. None of us are getting any younger.
It's people like you wot cause unrest.
Looking to visit home next month for the first time in a couple of years.
The missus and I have had 2 Pfizer jabs - more protected than most readers on here - and will arrive at Heathrow, collect a car and travel direct to extended family in England for quarantine. Since the US is on the amber list, we have to buy 2 tests each (at 170 pounds) to use on day 2 and day 8; if negative on day 10 we are free to travel into Wales.
England, however, also offers a day 5 quarantine release by purchasing an additional test and if that shows negative you've bought yourself out of quarantine (that's seems stupid but anyway...) . I've seen nothing in WAG's statements (including today's) about rules for ex-pats or visitors wanting to visit Wales so I called WAG today to check whether the 5-day England buy-out will free us to get into Wales on day 6 after arrival in UK.
Surprisingly I got a real person without too much delay (applause for that) but it was with regret that the spokesperson advised that Wales doesn't recognise the validity of the England 5-day release and, whilst appreciating the frustration of two systems running side by side the rules in Wales mean we must see out 10 days of quarantine after arriving in UK.
I recognise Wales is leading the way, data wise, in UK so Drakeford can justifiably point to the success of his Covid policy but doesn't there come a time when overkill is reached and precautions become too onerous and unnecessary?
Readers on this Board have undergone long, hard lockdowns to get where you are today in returning to normality (definitely tougher that I have here in Iowa) so my simple question is...do I ignore the quarantine and arrive back 'home' after 5 days and 2 negative tests as is permitted in England?
If your going to England follow their rules
Then follow the rules in Wales.
A Quiet Monkfish
04-06-21, 19:42
It's people like you wot cause unrest.
And we can't have that, can we.
cityhammer
04-06-21, 20:11
If the 'rules' stated you had to stick a carrot in your ear, would you do it ? So long as you're not harming anyone do what you want. None of us are getting any younger.
Is the correct answer!
What are you planning on doing once you're in Wales? If you're going through the process described then sticking to your very small crowd, who are then going to take a test/isolate after you leave, and remain outside in fresh air the risk to other people is going to be much smaller compared to spreading yourself between a large number of people and going inside when the risk would be greater.
You've described being able to buy yourself out of quarantine as stupid mind. I'd much prefer you to follow the rules of the local country but recognise it's very difficult sometimes.
Shirley if you land in uk (Heathrow) and conform to the quarantine rretrictions placed on you there, then you can travel anywhere in UK.
Last time I looked there was not a border checkpoint on the Severn bridge, Severn crossing or the M50 so when you drive home who is going to know?
As long as you feel that you are clean and clear just do it.
The Lone Gunman
04-06-21, 21:52
Looking to visit home next month for the first time in a couple of years.
The missus and I have had 2 Pfizer jabs - more protected than most readers on here.....
That’s alright, then. As long as you’re protected, don’t worry about anyone else and forget about the rules and regulations. Just do whatever you want. OK, so we may be experiencing a global pandemic, but you only live once. If you fancy flying over here for a holiday, just do it. I know we’re being advised not to travel abroad unless it’s absolutely essential, but what’s the worst that could happen? I mean, it’s not as if the virus spreads with people travelling from country to country, is it? Personally, I reckon we should just open the floodgates and be done with it.
Cowbridge Blue
04-06-21, 22:11
Shirley if you land in uk (Heathrow) and conform to the quarantine rretrictions placed on you there, then you can travel anywhere in UK.
Last time I looked there was not a border checkpoint on the Severn bridge, Severn crossing or the M50 so when you drive home who is going to know?
As long as you feel that you are clean and clear just do it.
Thanks to all who've contributed, I'm pleased not to have much in the way of negativity to my attitude which matches that described by xsnaggle above. The main point at issue is that England and Wales have different requirements to deal with the same problem. They are both looking at the same data but come out with different conclusions on how to handle with it. A number of people I've spoken to at home feel the First Minister has often taken a different, and less progressive, view from Boris just to demonstrate Wales can and will be different with the outcome being the same just a few weeks behind Westminster. If that's correct it must have been very frustrating at times for you all.
Particular thanks too to Des Parrott for recommending Dante for the testing kits, I'll be on to them and have them send what we need to our English destination.
Cowbridge Blue
04-06-21, 22:15
That’s alright, then. As long as you’re protected, don’t worry about anyone else and forget about the rules and regulations. Just do whatever you want. OK, so we may be experiencing a global pandemic, but you only live once. If you fancy flying over here for a holiday, just do it. I know we’re being advised not to travel abroad unless it’s absolutely essential, but what’s the worst that could happen? I mean, it’s not as if the virus spreads with people travelling from country to country, is it? Personally, I reckon we should just open the floodgates and be done with it.
Spoken like a true American :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Lord Dargavel
04-06-21, 22:21
Looking to visit home next month for the first time in a couple of years.
The missus and I have had 2 Pfizer jabs - more protected than most readers on here - and will arrive at Heathrow, collect a car and travel direct to extended family in England for quarantine. Since the US is on the amber list, we have to buy 2 tests each (at 170 pounds) to use on day 2 and day 8; if negative on day 10 we are free to travel into Wales.
England, however, also offers a day 5 quarantine release by purchasing an additional test and if that shows negative you've bought yourself out of quarantine (that's seems stupid but anyway...) . I've seen nothing in WAG's statements (including today's) about rules for ex-pats or visitors wanting to visit Wales so I called WAG today to check whether the 5-day England buy-out will free us to get into Wales on day 6 after arrival in UK.
Surprisingly I got a real person without too much delay (applause for that) but it was with regret that the spokesperson advised that Wales doesn't recognise the validity of the England 5-day release and, whilst appreciating the frustration of two systems running side by side the rules in Wales mean we must see out 10 days of quarantine after arriving in UK.
I recognise Wales is leading the way, data wise, in UK so Drakeford can justifiably point to the success of his Covid policy but doesn't there come a time when overkill is reached and precautions become too onerous and unnecessary?
Readers on this Board have undergone long, hard lockdowns to get where you are today in returning to normality (definitely tougher that I have here in Iowa) so my simple question is...do I ignore the quarantine and arrive back 'home' after 5 days and 2 negative tests as is permitted in England?
FFS just go and see your family. This situation is now beyond. I work in blood laboratories all over the U.K. and have done without pause since this all started. Amazingly biomedical scientists are not dropping down dead, I’ve not heard of a single case, that said my cousin, who is not a well man, was in the Heath and seriously ill with CoVID. If you are compromised in terms of immunity it will find you. These rules are ridiculous. We should never ever have locked down and instead chased herd immunity like we have done from the dawn of our time (literally). Get in the car and visit whoever you like because the government are under the spell of scientists who will err on the side of caution after being thrust into the limelight. The lockdown has saved nobody!!! Not a single soul from the inevitable! At best it has delayed what would have happened anyway! Hence the mortality rate hasn’t altered in any appreciable terms!
The Lone Gunman
04-06-21, 22:22
Spoken like a true American
You crack on. We’re being told by our governments (both of them) not to travel to countries on the amber list for leisure purposes, but if you want to come here from a country on the amber list for leisure purposes then why not? The virus will probably take one look at the regulations, get confused and not bother to join you.
The Lone Gunman
04-06-21, 22:24
FFS just go and see your family. This situation is now beyond. I work in blood laboratories all over the U.K. and have done without pause since this all started. Amazingly biomedical scientists are not dropping down dead, I’ve not heard of a single case, that said my cousin, who is not a well man, was in the Heath and seriously ill with CoVID. If you are compromised in terms of immunity it will find you. These rules are ridiculous. We should never ever have locked down and instead chased herd immunity like we have done from the dawn of our time (literally). Get in the car and visit whoever you like because the government are under the spell of scientists who will err on the side of caution after being thrust into the limelight. The lockdown has saved nobody!!! Not a single soul from the inevitable! At best it has delayed what would have happened anyway! Hence the mortality rate hasn’t altered in any appreciable terms!
It’s a hoax! It’s all a hoax! Plandemic!
There is some pretty irresponsible comment and advice in this thread, which basically encourage the OP to break the laws of Wales. Not that he needs much encouragement by the sound of it. Its this sort of attitude that has allowed the virus to spread all over the UK in the first place. The OP makes the serious mistake of assuming that he is fully protected and cannot transmit the virus because he has had two jabs. Also that the testing procedures are 100% foolproof. Also that he knows better than the medical experts who are advising the Welsh Government. The rules are there for a reason - to protect the people of Wales. If he has to come to this country on a visit in the first place, then the least he can do is follow the rules of the countries he visits but really, should he be travelling here at all at this time - all seems rather irresponsible to me.
Lord Dargavel
04-06-21, 22:35
What are you talking about you halfwit? It’s nothing of the sort. I work for Abbott Laboratories who have ploughed multi millions into developing tests to identify antibody testing and rapid testing but that doesn’t mean that the approach has been correct. Why don’t you offer a real opinion that is informed rather than scoff. But then that is you all over! As well most of this board know.
Lord Dargavel
04-06-21, 22:38
Utter horse shit. It has spread because that’s what viruses do. There was no containing it. Only hiding from it. The CoVID figures show that’s if you care to look at them. But keep believing what you are told by Whitty and Valance and don’t dare challenge the science. I have worn a mask day in day out on the ground in hospitals and am from a family of doctors and nurses so am abreast of matters CoVID. But keep listening to the news and being a good citizen like you are told to do.
FFS just go and see your family. This situation is now beyond. I work in blood laboratories all over the U.K. and have done without pause since this all started. Amazingly biomedical scientists are not dropping down dead, I’ve not heard of a single case, that said my cousin, who is not a well man, was in the Heath and seriously ill with CoVID. If you are compromised in terms of immunity it will find you. These rules are ridiculous. We should never ever have locked down and instead chased herd immunity like we have done from the dawn of our time (literally). Get in the car and visit whoever you like because the government are under the spell of scientists who will err on the side of caution after being thrust into the limelight. The lockdown has saved nobody!!! Not a single soul from the inevitable! At best it has delayed what would have happened anyway! Hence the mortality rate hasn’t altered in any appreciable terms!
The above post is a joke right ? What about all the doctors and nurses who have died on the wards ? Biomedics deal with their samples in sterile conditions, so hardly a surprise that they are well protected. In previous pandemics, chasing herd immunity, many hundreds of thousands more people died. Your apparent ‘who gives a f***’ or ‘let the b******s die’ attitude about people who are immunocompromised is a disgrace. You might have a different attitude if you were one of them or struggling to breathe on a hospital ventilator.
Utter horse shit. It has spread because that’s what viruses do. There was no containing it. Only hiding from it. The CoVID figures show that’s if you care to look at them. But keep believing what you are told by Whitty and Valance and don’t dare challenge the science. I have worn a mask day in day out on the ground in hospitals and am from a family of doctors and nurses so am abreast of matters CoVID. But keep listening to the news and being a good citizen like you are told to do.
You obviously get what you know about Covid from the back of a fag packet and not from engaging in intellectual conversation with members of your family.
Thanks to all who've contributed, I'm pleased not to have much in the way of negativity to my attitude which matches that described by xsnaggle above. The main point at issue is that England and Wales have different requirements to deal with the same problem. They are both looking at the same data but come out with different conclusions on how to handle with it. A number of people I've spoken to at home feel the First Minister has often taken a different, and less progressive, view from Boris just to demonstrate Wales can and will be different with the outcome being the same just a few weeks behind Westminster. If that's correct it must have been very frustrating at times for you all.
Particular thanks too to Des Parrott for recommending Dante for the testing kits, I'll be on to them and have them send what we need to our English destination.
While I aimed to appreciate the difficulty of your situation and tried to focus on what causes greater risk/how that can be managed within my message as well as commenting on the rules, I am now disappointed your chose xsnaggle's answer as one to highlight after they said "As long as you feel that you are clean and clear just do it." That's been a huuuge problem in how the virus has spread and is a completely irresponsible suggestion. TLG is right on that issue.
Regarding your comparison between Mark Drakeford and Boris Johnson: FFS, do people really believe something so simple? Drakeford has taken a more cautious approach without fearing sounding negative (big differences to Boris) which hasn't always been fun or successful but he wasn't the one who sent school children back for one day during winter when over half the deaths were recorded or refused to support hungry children over school holidays.
I'm disappointed your second message hasn't expressed how you're going to take extra steps to minimise the risk when breaking the rules and instead tries to make it out to be a Wales v England thing which is not helpful and, imo, inaccurate.
FFS just go and see your family. This situation is now beyond. I work in blood laboratories all over the U.K. and have done without pause since this all started. Amazingly biomedical scientists are not dropping down dead, I’ve not heard of a single case, that said my cousin, who is not a well man, was in the Heath and seriously ill with CoVID. If you are compromised in terms of immunity it will find you. These rules are ridiculous. We should never ever have locked down and instead chased herd immunity like we have done from the dawn of our time (literally). Get in the car and visit whoever you like because the government are under the spell of scientists who will err on the side of caution after being thrust into the limelight. The lockdown has saved nobody!!! Not a single soul from the inevitable! At best it has delayed what would have happened anyway! Hence the mortality rate hasn’t altered in any appreciable terms!
Out of interest, what is your job when you are working in blood laboratories?
Optimistic Nick
05-06-21, 00:36
There is some pretty irresponsible comment and advice in this thread, which basically encourage the OP to break the laws of Wales. Not that he needs much encouragement by the sound of it. Its this sort of attitude that has allowed the virus to spread all over the UK in the first place. The OP makes the serious mistake of assuming that he is fully protected and cannot transmit the virus because he has had two jabs. Also that the testing procedures are 100% foolproof. Also that he knows better than the medical experts who are advising the Welsh Government. The rules are there for a reason - to protect the people of Wales. If he has to come to this country on a visit in the first place, then the least he can do is follow the rules of the countries he visits but really, should he be travelling here at all at this time - all seems rather irresponsible to me.
I don't think he is suggesting he knows more than the people advising the Welsh government. I think he's confused because that expert advice seems to contradict the expert advice given to the UK government. Wales is part of Britain, hence the question.
I think you have to accept that if you don't carry the virus, you cannot spread it. And these aren't lateral flow tests he's taking- these are proper tests at a number of points which (assuming prove negative) provide sufficient comfort to the UK government that you do not have the virus and are not contageous. So if you can prove to the satisfaction of the UK Govt (who will take their own expert advice) that you don't have it, then why is that proof not acceptable in Wales? I think that is all he's asking here. There are five answers to that spring to mind:
1) Wales has better scientists who are right;
2) Both sets of of scientists agree on the scale of the risk but there are scientific factors that justify a more cautious approach in Wales;
3) crap admin - inability of executive powers to agree a common approach even though there is no good reason not to;
4) philospophy, and Wales placing greater emphasis on preserving life even though scientifically there is no difference in risk/likelihood of death or serious illness (that is not meant to be a slur on either party)
5) politics, and a desire to do something different to the tit with a mop for a haircut (that is a deliberate slur on both)
My money is on a mixture of 3, 4 and 5. It's not like England is just checking your temperature at Arrivals and allowing you in as long as it doesn't show a fever. We aren't talking about some moron mask-dodging anti-vaxxer here - this is someone willingly undergoing thorough testing and days in quarantine.
I agree with the concerns about why travel at all? One needs to have a very good answer to that question before going to the airport. After all you (presumably) don't know you haven't got it before you leave. But then we don't know the OP's circumstances - this might not just be a holiday/family reunion. And I do agree that as we are all in it together, you dp have to follow the rules no matter how daft they may seem to be (and sometimes actually are), because otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
But once he is here and has taken the steps necessary to satisfy UK Govt that he can leave quarantine - unless you routinely shell out for tests of this standard, twice, every time you leave the house... not really sure you have the moral high ground as regards his intention to drive a car from England to Wales.
Looking to visit home next month for the first time in a couple of years.
The missus and I have had 2 Pfizer jabs - more protected than most readers on here - and will arrive at Heathrow, collect a car and travel direct to extended family in England for quarantine. Since the US is on the amber list, we have to buy 2 tests each (at 170 pounds) to use on day 2 and day 8; if negative on day 10 we are free to travel into Wales.
England, however, also offers a day 5 quarantine release by purchasing an additional test and if that shows negative you've bought yourself out of quarantine (that's seems stupid but anyway...) . I've seen nothing in WAG's statements (including today's) about rules for ex-pats or visitors wanting to visit Wales so I called WAG today to check whether the 5-day England buy-out will free us to get into Wales on day 6 after arrival in UK.
Surprisingly I got a real person without too much delay (applause for that) but it was with regret that the spokesperson advised that Wales doesn't recognise the validity of the England 5-day release and, whilst appreciating the frustration of two systems running side by side the rules in Wales mean we must see out 10 days of quarantine after arriving in UK.
I recognise Wales is leading the way, data wise, in UK so Drakeford can justifiably point to the success of his Covid policy but doesn't there come a time when overkill is reached and precautions become too onerous and unnecessary?
Readers on this Board have undergone long, hard lockdowns to get where you are today in returning to normality (definitely tougher that I have here in Iowa) so my simple question is...do I ignore the quarantine and arrive back 'home' after 5 days and 2 negative tests as is permitted in England?
You've waited this long, I'd wait a bit longer if I were you. Maybe the rules are not as stupid as you think they are. People who have had both jabs can still contract and spread covid without even realizing it. And you could easily be exposed on the plane. Vaccinations have sadly stalled here. We're only at 50%. It's become political now. If there are 150 million people still unvaccinated, I should imagine your chances of flying on a plane with over 100 unvaccinated people are very good.
Wash DC Blue
05-06-21, 01:41
The above post is a joke right ? What about all the doctors and nurses who have died on the wards ? Biomedics deal with their samples in sterile conditions, so hardly a surprise that they are well protected. In previous pandemics, chasing herd immunity, many hundreds of thousands more people died. Your apparent ‘who gives a f***’ or ‘let the b******s die’ attitude about people who are immunocompromised is a disgrace. You might have a different attitude if you were one of them or struggling to breathe on a hospital ventilator.
This post is really worrying to me.
It’s surely not a fair reflection of society considering the successful vaccine rollout?
Wash DC Blue
05-06-21, 01:57
You've waited this long, I'd wait a bit longer if I were you. Maybe the rules are not as stupid as you think they are. People who have had both jabs can still contract and spread covid without even realizing it. And you could easily be exposed on the plane. Vaccinations have sadly stalled here. We're only at 50%. It's become political now. If there are 150 million people still unvaccinated, I should imagine your chances of flying on a plane with over 100 unvaccinated people are very good.
The rules seem arbitrary at best and I couldn’t consider The Welsh Assembly’s take anymore seriously than that of the committee of Cwmcarn Rugby Club.
The vaccines work or they don’t.
We’ve all sacrificed and abided by the rules.
Time to crack on with life!!
I too was interested in buying the Dante test kits, but then I saw they were named in this Guardian article.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/29/covid-test-travellers-quarantined-kit-results
Might be worth paying a bit more to avoid the hassle that some of the labs are causing for people. I couldn't imagine the frustration of doing 10 days isolation and then having to do another 10 because your test wasn't processed.
You've waited this long, I'd wait a bit longer if I were you. Maybe the rules are not as stupid as you think they are. People who have had both jabs can still contract and spread covid without even realizing it. And you could easily be exposed on the plane. Vaccinations have sadly stalled here. We're only at 50%. It's become political now. If there are 150 million people still unvaccinated, I should imagine your chances of flying on a plane with over 100 unvaccinated people are very good.
Can they? Hasn’t it just been proven that people who have had both can’t carry it, or 95% can’t for Pfizer?
The Lone Gunman
05-06-21, 07:46
What are you talking about you halfwit? It’s nothing of the sort. I work for Abbott Laboratories who have ploughed multi millions into developing tests to identify antibody testing and rapid testing but that doesn’t mean that the approach has been correct. Why don’t you offer a real opinion that is informed rather than scoff. But then that is you all over! As well most of this board know.
OK, here's some opinions:
1) Here in the UK, we're being told by our governments not to travel to countries on the amber list for leisure purposes. Therefore, in my opinion, nobody who lives in a country on the amber list should be visiting the UK for leisure purposes either. To me, the fact that people were allowed to travel to and from the UK on holidays last year with reasonable degrees of freedom was mind-numbingly stupid, but the same seems to be happening this year to a lesser degree. I just don't get it. I'd love to go on holiday this year to Greece or Spain or even Germany, but I believe that, under the present circumstances, doing so would be both irresponsible and unreasonable. I think 2022 is a more realistic option.
2) Your suggestions that "we should never ever have locked down and instead chased herd immunity," "the lockdown has saved nobody, not a single soul," and "(the virus) has spread because that’s what viruses do, there was no containing it, only hiding from it," are utterly idiotic. You sound like a fool.
The Lone Gunman
05-06-21, 07:52
The vaccines work or they don’t. We’ve all sacrificed and abided by the rules. Time to crack on with life!!
The vaccines will work properly once all of us who are prepared to accept them have had them and are as fully protected as we can be. Most of us have sacrificed and abided by the rules and we're cracking on with life, but we have to be sensible and reasonable as none of us want to go back to the situation we were in previously. It's been an extremely grim fourteen months, but we're now slowly and very surely returning to some sort of normality. What most of us don't want is for everything to go tits up again because certain groups of individuals are determined to ignore the guidance and go on holidays regardless.
FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead
05-06-21, 08:28
I don't think he is suggesting he knows more than the people advising the Welsh government. I think he's confused because that expert advice seems to contradict the expert advice given to the UK government. Wales is part of Britain, hence the question.
I think you have to accept that if you don't carry the virus, you cannot spread it. And these aren't lateral flow tests he's taking- these are proper tests at a number of points which (assuming prove negative) provide sufficient comfort to the UK government that you do not have the virus and are not contageous. So if you can prove to the satisfaction of the UK Govt (who will take their own expert advice) that you don't have it, then why is that proof not acceptable in Wales? I think that is all he's asking here. There are five answers to that spring to mind:
1) Wales has better scientists who are right;
2) Both sets of of scientists agree on the scale of the risk but there are scientific factors that justify a more cautious approach in Wales;
3) crap admin - inability of executive powers to agree a common approach even though there is no good reason not to;
4) philospophy, and Wales placing greater emphasis on preserving life even though scientifically there is no difference in risk/likelihood of death or serious illness (that is not meant to be a slur on either party)
5) politics, and a desire to do something different to the tit with a mop for a haircut (that is a deliberate slur on both)
My money is on a mixture of 3, 4 and 5. It's not like England is just checking your temperature at Arrivals and allowing you in as long as it doesn't show a fever. We aren't talking about some moron mask-dodging anti-vaxxer here - this is someone willingly undergoing thorough testing and days in quarantine.
I agree with the concerns about why travel at all? One needs to have a very good answer to that question before going to the airport. After all you (presumably) don't know you haven't got it before you leave. But then we don't know the OP's circumstances - this might not just be a holiday/family reunion. And I do agree that as we are all in it together, you dp have to follow the rules no matter how daft they may seem to be (and sometimes actually are), because otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
But once he is here and has taken the steps necessary to satisfy UK Govt that he can leave quarantine - unless you routinely shell out for tests of this standard, twice, every time you leave the house... not really sure you have the moral high ground as regards his intention to drive a car from England to Wales.
By far and away the most sensible reply on this thread.
I'll admit that Ive had the exact same thought about doing the 5-day release in England then traveling to Wales. It's all well and good to respect the "law" of Wales, but the virus doesn't distinguish between the two countries. It baffles me that I can isolate for 5 days and then freely go about London, Leicester or Liverpool, but the moment I step over Offa's Dyke I'm suddenly compromising the entire country. It's fair to wonder what the point of being fully vaccinated and doing multiple lab tests is if you still have to lock yourself in a room for 10 days.
We're not talking about going on a jolly because we're bored either, as some people here seem to think. I haven't seen my family for near 2 years and I'm sure OP is experiencing similar. In that time there has been 3 family deaths and a birth. People are in no position to judge the situations of others and assume they're just looking for a holiday, especially when trying to navigate the total disconnect between England and Wales' respective positions.
The Lone Gunman
05-06-21, 09:20
By far and away the most sensible reply on this thread.
Let's be honest, this thread was a load of nonsense to begin with. Cowbridge Blue had already done his homework. He knows what the UK government guidance is with regard to foreign travel and what the rules and regulations are here in Wales, but he's stated in his thread title that he believes the Welsh quarantine rules are 'stupid' and his opening paragraph says he's looking to travel to the UK from a country on the amber list for leisure purposes. He's going to do what he wants regardless. The validation or otherwise of a bunch of anonymous strangers on a football message board isn't going to make a scrap of difference to the choices he makes and I'm guessing the same is true for you.
By far and away the most sensible reply on this thread.
I'll admit that Ive had the exact same thought about doing the 5-day release in England then traveling to Wales...
Another saying the virus doesn't make distinctions cross borders...
If one nation has fewer ICU beds per 100,000 of the population than another then presumably pressure on the NHS is felt much more quickly. Borders can be important whether covid knows what it's doing or not.
My view is that if you're going to admit to breaking the covid rules of a nation then you should be able to tell us what extra steps you took to reduce the risk of it spreading. If you can't and your answer is that you followed the rules of another nation which would allow you to act as you wanted to then it's not great.
And presumably you know that you as a single individual probably aren't going to have a telling impact but if 999 single individuals came before then the risk increases.
Optimistic Nick
05-06-21, 12:04
Another saying the virus doesn't make distinctions cross borders...
If one nation has fewer ICU beds per 100,000 of the population than another then presumably pressure on the NHS is felt much more quickly. Borders can be important whether covid knows what it's doing or not.
My view is that if you're going to admit to breaking the covid rules of a nation then you should be able to tell us what extra steps you took to reduce the risk of it spreading. If you can't and your answer is that you followed the rules of another nation which would allow you to act as you wanted to then it's not great.
And presumably you know that you as a single individual probably aren't going to have a telling impact but if 999 single individuals came before then the risk increases.
He's proved he doesn't have it and so cannot transmit it, through 2 negative PCR tests (assuming that's what his tests show: if one is positive presumably all bets are off anyway). The vaccine is a red herring here, it's the rigourous testing that's in point. What more do you think he can he do? And have you extended the same duty of care to the people of Wales whenever you leave the house?
Des Parrot
05-06-21, 12:08
I too was interested in buying the Dante test kits, but then I saw they were named in this Guardian article.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/may/29/covid-test-travellers-quarantined-kit-results
Might be worth paying a bit more to avoid the hassle that some of the labs are causing for people. I couldn't imagine the frustration of doing 10 days isolation and then having to do another 10 because your test wasn't processed.
That’s interesting, my kits from Dante arrived before I came home and I’ve received the results next day. I’ve previously used TestingForAll but they were sold out and the government recommended CTM (expensive) and Express Test based at CCS, they’ve all delivered on time
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-06-21, 12:53
Stay out of Wales
We don't like outsiders here !
chrisp_1927
05-06-21, 13:16
Feel sorry for you mate. The rules now are becoming ever more ridiculous.
chrisp_1927
05-06-21, 13:33
That’s alright, then. As long as you’re protected, don’t worry about anyone else and forget about the rules and regulations. Just do whatever you want. OK, so we may be experiencing a global pandemic, but you only live once. If you fancy flying over here for a holiday, just do it. I know we’re being advised not to travel abroad unless it’s absolutely essential, but what’s the worst that could happen? I mean, it’s not as if the virus spreads with people travelling from country to country, is it? Personally, I reckon we should just open the floodgates and be done with it.
To be fair, there is lots of research showing that pfizer jabs drastically decrease your chances of catching and passing onto others. He's also stated that he's visiting home, which is slightly different to just going on holiday
FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead
05-06-21, 15:42
My view is that if you're going to admit to breaking the covid rules of a nation then you should be able to tell us what extra steps you took to reduce the risk of it spreading.
The three lab tests that would prove I do not have Covid and therefore am not a risk? The same extra steps that the UK government have themselves set out?
Your point about ICU beds is totally moot, too, because if I was carrying the virus I would not be allowed into England, let alone Wales. As OP says, once I have proved that I am not a risk, what is the difference between me going to Wales and Joe Bloggs from Bristol or Brighton?
Thanks to all who've contributed, I'm pleased not to have much in the way of negativity to my attitude which matches that described by xsnaggle above. The main point at issue is that England and Wales have different requirements to deal with the same problem. They are both looking at the same data but come out with different conclusions on how to handle with it. A number of people I've spoken to at home feel the First Minister has often taken a different, and less progressive, view from Boris just to demonstrate Wales can and will be different with the outcome being the same just a few weeks behind Westminster. If that's correct it must have been very frustrating at times for you all.
Particular thanks too to Des Parrott for recommending Dante for the testing kits, I'll be on to them and have them send what we need to our English destination.
I highlighted the risks rather than offered an opinion initially but if you are using this board to make a decision I think your attitude stinks and you should stay away until the rules allow as they are there to protect the people of Wales.
The rules are there for a reason- to protect us. Drakeford said hed rather wait a few more weeks in which time, a greater percentage the population would have been vaccinated. His more cautious approach has been shown to be effective. Boris's less cautious approach has him ignore the scientists in the autumn who advised a lockdown, and him allowing a 10 day window for travellers to enter the country from India, bringing the Delta variant with them.
If you think its Wales's quarantine rules that are stupid, and not England's, then previous experience would suggest it's the other way around.
Cowbridge Blue
05-06-21, 18:39
A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.
Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.
Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.
If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )
A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.
Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.
Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.
If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )
Sorry but no matter how you dress it up or explain your circumstances (which I am sure are very similar to many other peoples situation), the fact remains that if you come into Wales at the end of the five day test and release in England, you are breaking the rules of the Welsh Government that are set in place to protect its population. The facts that over 50% of the people of Wales have not had a second jab and that you have no idea whether the Pfizer jabs you have had have worked fully on you or not, means that you are putting yourselves and other people at risk.
Optimistic Nick
05-06-21, 23:54
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.
If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )
Exactly. You have spent money, and days of your lives, to prove that you don't carry the virus. You have clearly done more than the vast majority of the population of Wales to determine that you personally pose no threat. I don't really understand why you'd seek vindication from this messageboard for ignoring what appears to be an inexplicable deviation from UK govt policy as regards crossing a "border", but for what it's worth you have mine. I drove from England to Wales a few days ago. We take regular lateral flow tests in our house and they all came up negative, but it didn't occur to me to take any additional testing before I crossed the bridge. And in my personal experience, the observance of social distancing/mask wearing is no better in Cardiff than it is in London. I don't feel I owe the people of Wales any greater duty of care than the people of England. I obviously wear my mask everywhere etc and get tested (lateral flow) days before going in to town centres etc, but the idea that I up my game when I come to Cardiff is lunacy. And even my cautious approach is positively cavalier compared to yours, which is to prove that you are no threat; waste some time in a hotel; prove it again; and then leave.
Although I do think you over-estimate the relevance of vaccination vs testing at an individual level. Assuming that you are not a carrier because you've had the vaccine is dangerous; but two PCR tests spread over a few days demonstrating that you dont have it is about as conclusive as we will get. In other words: vis a vis Dave in Spott who presumably doesn't take a PCR test every few days, you pose a far lesser threat to the fine folk of this country.
A rigorous debate overnight and thanks to all for that. Full disclosure on our thinking / planning to return home at this time; it‘s been suggested that we delay a while which is understandable but more than an irritation; the main purpose is to visit the in-laws, both in their nineties and who the missus hasn’t seen in 2 years. They’ve battled well in the last 18 months, have had 2 vaccinations each and are extremely safety-conscious themselves. Also, the missus works at a university here so her next opportunity for a visit is not until Xmas.
Full disclosure on our plans:-
• As mentioned we’ve had 2 x Pfizer vaccinations administered in April and May;
• We are required to travel with a negative test result less than 72 hours old;
• We’re flying Icelandair who require all travelers regardless of origin to show a certificate of full vaccination and also require masks to be worn throughout the flight. Iceland is on UK’s green list of countries;
• We are on the ground for a 90-miute layover in Reykjavik but do not leave airside;
• We arrive Heathrow and will go through UK immigration checks and procedures;
• We’ll have a rental car booked and will travel direct to our family hosts in England to where three-pack testing kits will have been sent to comply with days 2, 5 and 8 tests required by UK government.
• Our family hosts live in a rural area with low infection rates and have had one vaccination and possibly a second by the time we arrive.
• Assuming the required tests show negative we would be free to leave quarantine after day 5 and travel anywhere in England.
Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales. After day 5 our plans will be flexible, circumstances and rules in both countries could well have changed for the better with a further relaxation of restrictions. Otherwise we could just stay in England or perhaps visit the old folks but stay outdoors and at distance.
But why is Wales not satisfied with the day 5 release given all the other precautions having been observed? Merely in the interests of caution I suggest because the data is the same as in England and Wales have the best figures in the four home nations.
If we go we will arrive having proven we are not carrying the virus which is better than can be said for 63% of Wales' population that is not fully vaccinated; today's figures : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55855220 )
you will have tested 3 times before you reach day 6 , its safe to say you will not have C19 by then
Go and see who you like in the UK :thumbup: Enjoy :thumbup:
Can they? Hasn’t it just been proven that people who have had both can’t carry it, or 95% can’t for Pfizer?
Not to my knowledge.
the other bob wilson
06-06-21, 05:02
The rules are there for a reason- to protect us. Drakeford said hed rather wait a few more weeks in which time, a greater percentage the population would have been vaccinated. His more cautious approach has been shown to be effective. Boris's less cautious approach has him ignore the scientists in the autumn who advised a lockdown, and him allowing a 10 day window for travellers to enter the country from India, bringing the Delta variant with them.
If you think its Wales's quarantine rules that are stupid, and not England's, then previous experience would suggest it's the other way around.
It's there throughout this thread isn't it, the certainty that the UK (English) Government have got it right and the Welsh Government have got it wrong, when, as a general rule, the opposite has applied throughout the length of the pandemic.
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 06:21
It's there throughout this thread isn't it, the certainty that the UK (English) Government have got it right and the Welsh Government have got it wrong, when, as a general rule, the opposite has applied throughout the length of the pandemic.
Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!
Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.
However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%
Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%
So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 06:29
Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!
Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.
However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%
Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%
So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes
And I forgot to mention vaccines...England fully vaccinated 43% of population, Wales 39% population
.....
Now we get to the point of my original post – the different rules currently in place in England and Wales.
....
i) I don't believe that was the point of the original post, unless you were working extremely hard not to have this thread moved to the politics section.
ii) Don't forget your quote in the OP: "England, however, also offers a day 5 quarantine release by purchasing an additional test and if that shows negative you've bought yourself out of quarantine (that's seems stupid but anyway...)"
iii) I still don't understand why you're not stating your intention to only come into close contact with as small a group of people as possible, totally avoid public transport and stay outside enjoying the Welsh summer. That would get vast majority on side - most of us want you, or people we know in your shoes, to come but want those people breaking the rules to show understanding of additional risk they're potentially creating and show understanding for all those locals who've sacrificed throughout the past year. At the moment all you're saying is why you shouldn't have to be mindful for locals which isn't great.
Out of interest, what is your job when you are working in blood laboratories?
He's a cleaner at the lab and his family are doctors therefore he's the UK's foremost Covid expert
As OP says, once I have proved that I am not a risk, what is the difference between me going to Wales and Joe Bloggs from Bristol or Brighton?
Joe Bloggs from Bristol or Brighton would have not had the 3 tests to prove he is not carrying the virus though, so you would be a safer bet to let into Wales
Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!
Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.
However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%
Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%
So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes
Dont let facts get in the way of a CCMB Boris Bashing Session
the other bob wilson
06-06-21, 10:48
Dont let facts get in the way of a CCMB Boris Bashing Session
What facts? The only one out of those quoted where England are doing better than Wales is in the double dose vaccines and, if I wanted to, I could argue that the second vaccine is a higher priority over the border because of the increased presence of the Indian variant following the decision to allow travel between the two countries in the spring.
What is clear is that the widespread assumption in this thread that the UK Government is dealing with the pandemic correctly and the Welsh Government isn’t is not backed up by stats produced by a self confessed Drakeford basher.
the other bob wilson
06-06-21, 11:10
Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can. Recently he was on air saying were had the best vaccination rates in the world!!
Lots of comments that we are doing better than England.
However the facts are that since the start of the pandemic the incidence per capita England 0.7% of the population, Wales 0.7%
Death rate from those getting Covid. England 2.8%, Wales 2.6%
So whatever 'the stupid quarantine rules in Wales'. there is nothing to choose between us and England when you measure outcomes
Although I’ve not bothered checking the claim, there’s been stories saying Wales has the best vaccine rates in the world for weeks hasn’t there? As for Drakeford making capital, that’s what politicians do isn’t it? You get Torys bringing the vaccine roll out into conversations about, for example, defence spending and you can understand it in a way because it is something that they’ve generally reckoned to have make a success of.
The Lone Gunman
06-06-21, 11:18
Im not a great fan of Drakeford as you know. He annoys me by making political capital whenever he can.
A politician seeking to make political capital? Wow!!!
You'll be telling us footballers play football next....
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 13:46
Although I’ve not bothered checking the claim, there’s been stories saying Wales has the best vaccine rates in the world for weeks hasn’t there? As for Drakeford making capital, that’s what politicians do isn’t it? You get Torys bringing the vaccine roll out into conversations about, for example, defence spending and you can understand it in a way because it is something that they’ve generally reckoned to have make a success of.
My OP by the way should say the incidence since the pandemic began is 7%( not0.7) and its the same for England and Wales
As far as vaccinations go I did mention those fully vaccinated ( 2 jabs) at 43% for England and 39% for Wales.
Yes, politicians do make political capital but how can he say we have the best rates in the world when we haven't.
The basic facts are that the incidence of Covid and the death rates England v Wales overall are virtually identical despite people arguing on this board that one is better than the other
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 13:55
A politician seeking to make political capital? Wow!!!
You'll be telling us footballers play football next....
It seems arguing with Drakeford is like reading a Software License Agreement. In the end you just click ' I Agree'
splott parker
06-06-21, 15:13
It seems arguing with Drakeford is like reading a Software License Agreement. In the end you just click ' I Agree'
Which one of your lot would you prefer to see in charge in Wales?
the other bob wilson
06-06-21, 15:42
My OP by the way should say the incidence since the pandemic began is 7%( not0.7) and its the same for England and Wales
As far as vaccinations go I did mention those fully vaccinated ( 2 jabs) at 43% for England and 39% for Wales.
Yes, politicians do make political capital but how can he say we have the best rates in the world when we haven't.
The basic facts are that the incidence of Covid and the death rates England v Wales overall are virtually identical despite people arguing on this board that one is better than the other
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2021/06/how-wales-leads-world-covid-19-vaccine-race
My OP by the way should say the incidence since the pandemic began is 7%( not0.7) and its the same for England and Wales
As far as vaccinations go I did mention those fully vaccinated ( 2 jabs) at 43% for England and 39% for Wales.
Yes, politicians do make political capital but how can he say we have the best rates in the world when we haven't.
The basic facts are that the incidence of Covid and the death rates England v Wales overall are virtually identical despite people arguing on this board that one is better than the other
Latest fully covid vaccinated figures are :- England 53%, Wales 49%. You seem to have under reported both. Wales has first vaccinated 86% of its adult population - one of the highest rates in the world and 10% more than England.
Latest fully covid vaccinated figures are :- England 53%, Wales 49%. You seem to have under reported both. Wales has first vaccinated 86% of its adult population - one of the highest rates in the world and 10% more than England.
Drakeford doesn't have any control over how many vaccines he gets. He does though know his supply numbers a few days in advance of what England get.
What he does have control over is the distribution and administering of what he does get, which potentially helped him to achieve the numbers and rates he has.
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 17:44
Drakeford doesn't have any control over how many vaccines he gets. He does though know his supply numbers a few days in advance of what England get.
What he does have control over is the distribution and administering of what he does get, which potentially helped him to achieve the numbers and rates he has.
Drakeford knows he will get the population share for Wales of the UK contract as agreed. The AZ vaccine goes through England then on to Wales. The Pfizer vaccine goes direct to Wales from Pfizer so Wales has direct contact with the manufacturer. The Moderna vaccine also goes direct to the Wales distributor, whoever that is, so agin direct contact with the manufacturer.
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 17:54
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2021/06/how-wales-leads-world-covid-19-vaccine-race
No doubt the New Statesman is correct which is what Drakeford is quoting when he says we lead the world. Well done Wales.
But in completing the course ie 2 jabs we are lagging behind with 39% of population having had both jabs. Latest data from Wales Public Health shows 1,237,123 people having 2 doses 39% of our population of 3.15 m.
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 18:00
Which one of your lot would you prefer to see in charge in Wales?
I think I know what you are getting at by ' your lot' but it took some serious working out.
What I said in my OP was that despite Wales being cautious and Drakeford emphasising this approach, the overall incidence of Covid in Wales and the overall death rates are virtually identical to England. So is all this fuss with ' stupid quarantine rules in Wales' really worth it for the people of Wales. The outcome data says NO
No doubt the New Statesman is correct which is what Drakeford is quoting when he says we lead the world. Well done Wales.
But in completing the course ie 2 jabs we are lagging behind with 39% of population having had both jabs. Latest data from Wales Public Health shows 1,237,123 people having 2 doses 39% of our population of 3.15 m.
Actually we may not be behind. England figures are real time. The way they are recorded means Wales are 5 days behind. Wales is 39.2 with 5 days of jabs not included.
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 18:10
Actually we may not be behind. England figures are real time. The way they are recorded means Wales are 5 days behind. Wales is 39.2 with 5 days of jabs not included.
There is no 5 day lag. Wales data is correct up to 5 June. Look on the PHE website and you can see each home nations data for 1/2nd doses by day and cummulative
What has happened is that Wales has focused on 1st jabs, and lags in giving the full course, whereas England has spread it differently
There is no 5 day lag. Wales data is correct up to 5 June. Look on the PHE website and you can see each home nations data for 1/2nd doses by day and cummulative
What has happened is that Wales has focused on 1st jabs, and lags in giving the full course, whereas England has spread it differently
No according to this.
Lag in figures at the bottom
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55855220
My OP by the way should say the incidence since the pandemic began is 7%( not0.7) and its the same for England and Wales
As far as vaccinations go I did mention those fully vaccinated ( 2 jabs) at 43% for England and 39% for Wales.
Yes, politicians do make political capital but how can he say we have the best rates in the world when we haven't.
The basic facts are that the incidence of Covid and the death rates England v Wales overall are virtually identical despite people arguing on this board that one is better than the other
In terms of over 18's (a different figure to those you've mentioned in your post) England is leading the way in the UK for two jabs and has about 5% more done than Wales but Wales is leading the way in terms of one jabs and is about 10% higher than next nation (England) within the UK.
We have the best rates in terms of first doses and part of that is the different strategy employed. One dose of the vaccine is about 33% effective two weeks after against the Delta variant so it might not end up being the best strategy but presumably it's quicker to second dose a population than first and second dose so we'll see how it develops and how we evaluate with hindsight. At the moment we can remember criticism when Drakeford said it wasn't a race and be glad so many are coming forward.
I'm sure the OP won't pay attention to these facts because they prefer your analysis though.
In terms of the OP, this is turning into whether they should respect rules of Wales if it's different to what they want to do. As TLG said earlier, it's seems they've made up their mind already.
Wales has fewer ICU beds per 100,000 than England so that's one reason to suggest that if Wales only has same death rates as England despite this then the Welsh strategy has worked better. At the end of the day the biggest mistakes have been putting people back into care homes (all nations did this) and lack of action taken at winter with Scotland taking action first (and having the reduced spike to show for it) and England taking action last (with the highest spike of deaths to show for it). It's unlikely we find out definitively which was best so will continue to be more opinion than clear analysis.
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 19:07
No according to this.
Lag in figures at the bottom
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55855220
If that's correct, and it looks like it is, then I apologise. So what's happening is that Wales is publishing official data daily showing the number of vaccinations administered on our official public health websites and it is inaccurate? So the data published for 5 June is for jabs given on 31 May??..Yet the politicians in Wales see the complete picture in real time?
And more puzzling is that the data shows the weekend fall offs in number of jabs given that you would normally expect. I note the BBC says GPs reporting data, so maybe all the data done in Community hubs is in real time??
lisvaneblue
06-06-21, 19:10
In terms of over 18's (a different figure to those you've mentioned in your post) England is leading the way in the UK for two jabs and has about 5% more done than Wales but Wales is leading the way in terms of one jabs and is about 10% higher than next nation (England) within the UK.
We have the best rates in terms of first doses and part of that is the different strategy employed. One dose of the vaccine is about 33% effective two weeks after against the Delta variant so it might not end up being the best strategy but presumably it's quicker to second dose a population than first and second dose so we'll see how it develops and how we evaluate with hindsight. At the moment we can remember criticism when Drakeford said it wasn't a race and be glad so many are coming forward.
I'm sure the OP won't pay attention to these facts because they prefer your analysis though.
In terms of the OP, this is turning into whether they should respect rules of Wales if it's different to what they want to do. As TLG said earlier, it's seems they've made up their mind already.
Wales has fewer ICU beds per 100,000 than England so that's one reason to suggest that if Wales only has same death rates as England despite this then the Welsh strategy has worked better. At the end of the day the biggest mistakes have been putting people back into care homes (all nations did this) and lack of action taken at winter with Scotland taking action first (and having the reduced spike to show for it) and England taking action last (with the highest spike of deaths to show for it). It's unlikely we find out definitively which was best so will continue to be more opinion than clear analysis.
So are you implying that more people should have died in Wales because we have not invested in ICU beds to the same extent as England?
splott parker
06-06-21, 19:17
I think I know what you are getting at by ' your lot' but it took some serious working out.
What I said in my OP was that despite Wales being cautious and Drakeford emphasising this approach, the overall incidence of Covid in Wales and the overall death rates are virtually identical to England. So is all this fuss with ' stupid quarantine rules in Wales' really worth it for the people of Wales. The outcome data says NO
Serious working out:hehe: who else did you have in mind? The Lisvane/Brecon Meat Purveyors Appreciation Society:hide:?
Looking to visit home next month for the first time in a couple of years.
The missus and I have had 2 Pfizer jabs - more protected than most readers on here - and will arrive at Heathrow, collect a car and travel direct to extended family in England for quarantine. Since the US is on the amber list, we have to buy 2 tests each (at 170 pounds) to use on day 2 and day 8; if negative on day 10 we are free to travel into Wales.
England, however, also offers a day 5 quarantine release by purchasing an additional test and if that shows negative you've bought yourself out of quarantine (that's seems stupid but anyway...) . I've seen nothing in WAG's statements (including today's) about rules for ex-pats or visitors wanting to visit Wales so I called WAG today to check whether the 5-day England buy-out will free us to get into Wales on day 6 after arrival in UK.
Surprisingly I got a real person without too much delay (applause for that) but it was with regret that the spokesperson advised that Wales doesn't recognise the validity of the England 5-day release and, whilst appreciating the frustration of two systems running side by side the rules in Wales mean we must see out 10 days of quarantine after arriving in UK.
I recognise Wales is leading the way, data wise, in UK so Drakeford can justifiably point to the success of his Covid policy but doesn't there come a time when overkill is reached and precautions become too onerous and unnecessary?
Readers on this Board have undergone long, hard lockdowns to get where you are today in returning to normality (definitely tougher that I have here in Iowa) so my simple question is...do I ignore the quarantine and arrive back 'home' after 5 days and 2 negative tests as is permitted in England?
If you break the law I hope you'll be caught and it'll end with a reported court case. Not for vindictiveness but just to read your defence letting everybody know where you asked for advice
No doubt the New Statesman is correct which is what Drakeford is quoting when he says we lead the world. Well done Wales.
But in completing the course ie 2 jabs we are lagging behind with 39% of population having had both jabs. Latest data from Wales Public Health shows 1,237,123 people having 2 doses 39% of our population of 3.15 m.
Why are you continuing to use total population figures when under 18’s are not as yet included in the process ? Its 49.2% of the eligible population that have received the two doses and over 86% the first dose, in Wales.
lisvaneblue
07-06-21, 09:40
Why are you continuing to use total population figures when under 18’s are not as yet included in the process ? Its 49.2% of the eligible population that have received the two doses and over 86% the first dose, in Wales.
It's the only direct comparison I could find v England.
Using your data it looks like 7 months into the vaccination programme over half of the eligible population of Wales is not 'fully protected'.
the other bob wilson
07-06-21, 14:35
Seems to me Wales is prioritising all adults getting a vaccine over delivering second ones at the moment - possibly because we haven’t been that hard hit by the Indian variant up to now:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57385909
Croesy Blue
07-06-21, 15:52
There is no 5 day lag. Wales data is correct up to 5 June. Look on the PHE website and you can see each home nations data for 1/2nd doses by day and cummulative
What has happened is that Wales has focused on 1st jabs, and lags in giving the full course, whereas England has spread it differently
I can't imagine being so biased towards a political party that I would make myself look as stupid as this on purpose. So embarrassing
the other bob wilson
07-06-21, 16:31
Very comprehensive Covid stats for Wales here with some comparisons with England;-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643
life on mars
07-06-21, 16:49
Go via Gibraltar
life on mars
07-06-21, 16:50
Serious working out:hehe: who else did you have in mind? The Lisvane/Brecon Meat Purveyors Appreciation Society:hide:?
Chop Chop
It's the only direct comparison I could find v England.
Using your data it looks like 7 months into the vaccination programme over half of the eligible population of Wales is not 'fully protected'.
Englands figures are fully published on the same Government website as Wales (England currently 54% fully covered). However Wales did over 55000 second jabs over the last weekend, so will catch up fast at that rate.
life on mars
07-06-21, 18:53
Englands figures are fully published on the same Government website as Wales (England currently 54% fully covered). However Wales did over 55000 second jabs over the last weekend, so will catch up fast at that rate.
England has a lot more folk to cope with
England has a lot more folk to cope with
Do you think maybe England also has a lot more folk to do the coping/
lisvaneblue
07-06-21, 20:32
Englands figures are fully published on the same Government website as Wales (England currently 54% fully covered). However Wales did over 55000 second jabs over the last weekend, so will catch up fast at that rate.
Wales has done terrific job focused on 1st jabs.
As you say Wales needs to catch up on 2nd jabs. The issue we have is that Wales has been working on giving a second jab within 12 weeks.
Since mid- May the joint vaccine committee says that 2nd jabs need to be given within 8-9 weeks because of the risks with the Delta variant.
Looking at where Wales is currently, in broad terms there are around 900,000- 1m people who need to have a second dose within the next 8-9 weeks. Can be done but will need a few more 55k weekends plus some to do it.
lisvaneblue
07-06-21, 20:47
I can't imagine being so biased towards a political party that I would make myself look as stupid as this on purpose. So embarrassing
Ive not mentioned politics once. The data I looked at was officially published on the Wales website. Wales data today says deaths so far 5570, Wales data on BBC report that TOBW refers to says death rate over 7,000......which is right??
My original post was straightforward...With all the differences between the way Wales and England have handled the pandemic,( and there's been lots of criticism on this board about both countries,) there is hardly any difference at all in per capita key outcomes..ie the number of people who have had Covid and the number of deaths....no difference....and we are over a year into this pandemic, with each country tweaking this and that.....no differences to the two key end points inEngland and Wales
life on mars
09-06-21, 15:42
Ive not mentioned politics once. The data I looked at was officially published on the Wales website. Wales data today says deaths so far 5570, Wales data on BBC report that TOBW refers to says death rate over 7,000......which is right??
My original post was straightforward...With all the differences between the way Wales and England have handled the pandemic,( and there's been lots of criticism on this board about both countries,) there is hardly any difference at all in per capita key outcomes..ie the number of people who have had Covid and the number of deaths....no difference....and we are over a year into this pandemic, with each country tweaking this and that.....no differences to the two key end points in England and Wales
Guess its in the human nature to wish one is better than some else , used to see it a lot in school playgrounds
Taunton Blue Genie
09-06-21, 15:50
Guess its in the human nature to wish one is better than some else , used to see it a lot in school playgrounds
You never struck me as an old Etonian.
You never struck me as an old Etonian.
Not a wish. One knew that one was better.
Allez Allez Allez
13-06-21, 08:57
Thanks to all who've contributed, I'm pleased not to have much in the way of negativity to my attitude which matches that described by xsnaggle above. The main point at issue is that England and Wales have different requirements to deal with the same problem. They are both looking at the same data but come out with different conclusions on how to handle with it. A number of people I've spoken to at home feel the First Minister has often taken a different, and less progressive, view from Boris just to demonstrate Wales can and will be different with the outcome being the same just a few weeks behind Westminster. If that's correct it must have been very frustrating at times for you all.
Particular thanks too to Des Parrott for recommending Dante for the testing kits, I'll be on to them and have them send what we need to our English destination.
FFS.
xsnaggle isn't a doctor is he? But, he said something you want to hear, and that's good enough for you.
Currently 91% of cases in the UK have been of a form that has been imported in from India. No doubt brought in by someone who thought they were clean.
The fact you had 2 vaccines is neither here nor there. It improves your chances of not getting sick, but it is not known that it suppresses transmission. In other words, you may contract the Delta virus while you are here, and then export it back to the US, all the while not ever once being sick, or having so much as a symptom thanks to the vaccine.
You, singularly, don't pose a huge degree of risk of starting a cluster of cases in Wales. But, add in you and many others who have the same attitude, and the risk grows for us all.
And the risk?
People dying
Sectors of industries shutting down
People losing jobs
People forced to face more restrictions despite following guidelines
I have been unable to visit a relative diagnosed with cancer (even though that person has had 2 vaccines). I have been unable to visit parents who are old and vulnerable (even though they have had both vaccines). And everytime we get to a stage where I may be able to do this without risking the health of people I care about, the UK opens its borders to import in a variant from South Africa or India, maybe next time the US.
But, sadly, this has inconvenienced you and I am really sorry. Please, come into the country with other plane loads of selfish twats, and I'll keep chatting to relatives on a doorstep.
In terms of over 18's (a different figure to those you've mentioned in your post) England is leading the way in the UK for two jabs and has about 5% more done than Wales but Wales is leading the way in terms of one jabs and is about 10% higher than next nation (England) within the UK.
....
When I posted this on the 6th Wales was 10.1% ahead of England in terms of first jabs and 4.2% behind in terms of second.
As of the 11th of June Wales has managed 9.4% more first jabs than England while is 3.4% behind England in terms of second jabs.
It's not a race, there are many different factors at play and it's dependent on people coming forward especially if they think they've been missed. In terms of the Delta Variant the protection is much greater after 2nd jabs.
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