View Full Version : FT: WALES 0 - 0 ESTONIA. Match thread
Michael Morris
08-09-21, 13:53
Cardiff City Stadium, ko 7:45pm.
Robert Page says it's 'massive' to have unlimited crowds again as Wales aim to climb to second place in their World Cup qualifying group by beating Estonia on Wednesday.
Wales are third with two wins and a loss so far, one point behind the Czech Republic and seven behind leaders Belgium - but having played two games fewer than both.
Estonia have lost all three of their matches and are ranked 110th in the world - 91 places below Page's side.
"We've got everything to play for," said the Wales manager.
"We're not ruling out top spot, we're going to give everything we can."
Wales are searching for a second win in four days after Gareth Bale's hat-trick gave them a dramatic 3-2 comeback victory against Belarus in Russia on Sunday.
Page's men had trailed 2-1 but Bale struck in the third minute of injury time, as Wales won a game having come from behind for the first time since beating Belgium in their Euro 2016 quarter-final.
The match against Estonia will have the added significance of being Wales' first home game since the coronavirus pandemic where there will be no limit on the number of supporters allowed inside the stadium.
"It's massive. The supporters have always been a part of our achievements over the years," said Page.
"To be part of that, when we qualified for the Euros a couple of years ago, was a great experience for me - and I was a supporter back in Euro 2016.
"It's fantastic for us and the players to have the supporters back with us. There's no greater feeling than when you're playing well and the crowd are with you and behind you.
"If you're holding on to a win and you've got to dig deep, they're there with you and they're singing and chanting. It does help you get across the line, so they can play a massive part.
"We're up against a very good Estonia team and we're fully prepared for that. Our short-term aim is to take three points. We're taking each game as it comes and we've got some tough fixtures in October and November.
"We've had 13 players out, so it's an opportunity in October and November to get people back fit and raring to go."
Team news
Wales were without 13 players against Belarus, but they will be boosted by the return of four of those against Estonia.
Ethan Ampadu, Tyler Roberts and Brandon Cooper are available having missed the trip to Kazan in Russia due to visa issues, while Harry Wilson is back after serving a one-match suspension.
Wales have also added Joe Rodon to the squad after the Tottenham Hotspur centre-back recovered from an unspecified injury.
Wales had hoped Aaron Ramsey may also join the squad, but the Juventus midfielder has not recovered from a thigh problem.
"We've been in constant contact with the club and Aaron himself," added Page.
"He pushed and pushed, but he just fell short of where they wanted him to be to allow him to come away.
"It's frustrating, but we've got other players we can give the opportunity to."
Estonia defender Joonas Tamm is doubtful after picking up a knock in their 5-2 defeat to Belgium last week, with the 42-cap centre-back sitting out Sunday's friendly loss against Northern Ireland.
Match facts
Wales have won their two previous matches against Estonia, both friendlies in May 1994, a 2-1 win in Tallinn, and May 2009 when they won 1-0 in Llanelli.
Estonia have lost six of their seven away World Cup and Euro qualifiers against England, Northern Ireland and Scotland, with their solitary win coming in October 2011 at Northern Ireland.
Wales have lost just one of their past 16 home qualifying matches, with 10 wins, five draws and the solitary defeat against the Republic of Ireland in October 2017.
Estonia have won one of their past 18 away qualifying matches, thrashing Gibraltar 6-0 in October 2017, but drawing four and losing 13, failing to score 14 times in that run with those six goals making up 60% of their total goals scored (10).
Wales have conceded only three goals in their past 13 home games in all competitions, remaining unbeaten in all 13 with 10 wins and three draws, while never conceding more than once in a game in this run.
Wales scored three goals last time out versus Belarus, as many as they had netted in their previous seven games in all competitions combined.
Wales have conceded seven goals in their past three competitive games (2.3 per game), one more than they had shipped in their previous 13 such fixtures (six conceded at 0.5 per game).
Gareth Bale scored his second hat-trick for Wales against Belarus, following his treble against China in March 2018. Bale has been involved in all five of Wales' goals in qualifying for the 2022 World Cup, with three goals and two assists.
3-1 Wales, their goal a penalty.
Rollcall anyone?
Me :easy:
Estonia have goals in them, they've managed 2 in each game so far. Need to get Ampadu and Rodon back in. I think Harris showed the importance of having an actual striker in the side and improved our structure and would like to see him start. He isn't as good as Tyler Roberts, but I think he could be more effective
Ward
Gunter Rodon Mepham Davies
Ampadu Allen
Bale Wilson James
Harris
3-1 Wales, their goal a penalty.
Rollcall anyone?
Me :easy:
And me, and my son
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 15:42
3-1 Wales, their goal a penalty.
Rollcall anyone?
Me :easy:
Going for a confident 2-0 win. Sadly I've torn my calf so won't be going anywhere
stan butler
08-09-21, 16:20
Going for a confident 2-0 win. Sadly I've torn my calf so won't be going anywhere
Are you Lee Tomlin :sherlock::wave:
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 16:25
Are you Lee Tomlin :sherlock::wave:
I wish I was getting his pay for doing **** all
3 of us there then, should be lively
the other bob wilson
08-09-21, 17:47
Estonia have goals in them, they've managed 2 in each game so far. Need to get Ampadu and Rodon back in. I think Harris showed the importance of having an actual striker in the side and improved our structure and would like to see him start. He isn't as good as Tyler Roberts, but I think he could be more effective
Ward
Gunter Rodon Mepham Davies
Ampadu Allen
Bale Wilson James
Harris
Not a bad prediction, Ampadu in the back four, no Rodon. Usual pair in central midfield, Wilson back and Tyler Roberts up front.
J R Hartley
08-09-21, 18:32
Joe Morrell again ffs.
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 18:48
How did Wilson miss that???
Beautifully set up by Gunter.
19bluebirds27
08-09-21, 18:50
How did Wilson miss that???
Beautifully set up by Gunter.
I was thinking pass it again to Dan James running on.
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 19:00
I was thinking pass it again to Dan James running on.
Strange that they’ve not shown a replay.
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 19:11
Joe Morrell again ffs.
Page's love child surely
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 19:20
We are pretty poor right now.
19bluebirds27
08-09-21, 19:23
Jonny Williams on for Wilson.
He also seems to craft on opening for Wales - seems like we need it getting a little frustrated now.
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
08-09-21, 19:23
We are pretty poor right now.
that's an understatement!
Wilson off and headless chicken on.
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 19:24
We are pretty poor right now.
Really poor. Ben Davies forgotten how to kick a ball, Morrell and Allen headless chickens at times. All stems from Page not being good enough for me.
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 19:27
Morrell and Allen are a poor partnership right now.
Allen has regressed a lot sadly and Morrell is just not much good.
Harry Paget Flashman
08-09-21, 19:29
Allen has regressed a lot sadly and Morrell is just not much good.
He was ok 6 years ago.
the other bob wilson
08-09-21, 19:31
I thought it was the away side that was supposed to quieten the crowd.
Joe Gillis
08-09-21, 19:38
Gunter is woeful ,everything breaks down when he's on the ball
William Treseder
08-09-21, 19:38
Well that was shite. All huff and puff, no quality. They say there aren’t any easy games at international level any more, but this mob are woeful.
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
08-09-21, 19:39
I fell asleep last 5 mins.
Glad I didn’t go. Its turgid stuff. Playing Allen and Morrell in midfield doesn’t work. They are too similar and neither has any creativity. James has been poor and again I watch Roberts and wonder exactly what does he offer.
We must play at a much quicker pace in the second half. It’s too slow and predictable.
Stanmore Bluebird
08-09-21, 19:47
I am watching a repeat of the Booze Cruise II.
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 19:49
Morrell and Allen are a poor partnership right now.
Allen has regressed a lot sadly and Morrell is just not much good.
Yep. Poor in the middle of the park for sure
Joe Gillis
08-09-21, 19:53
I fell asleep last 5 mins.
Danny Gabbidon will do that to you
Ben Davies' passing is awful tonight
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 20:04
One effort on target after 60 minutes.... make that two as I type. Awful
Boy are we missing Ramsey.
Roberts should score there :angry:
surely that was a foul on j Williams
lovely from harris
Wasn't it.
Seems to have lots to offer.
Will be a regular soon if he keeps progressing.
19bluebirds27
08-09-21, 20:17
If Estonia sneak a goal and they will get a chance we won’t recover.
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 20:17
Danny Gabbidon will do that to you
Danny Gabbidon’s commentary is fine and Gunter is playing very well.
Cleve van Leef
08-09-21, 20:20
Why has Jonny Williams got his head on upside down?
Wasn't it.
Seems to have lots to offer.
Will be a regular soon if he keeps progressing.
yeah I didn't think he had much about him until recently, looks a dangerous player now.
If Estonia sneak a goal and they will get a chance we won’t recover.
Yes, they could nick one if we get careless.
We don't really look like scoring against a side who ship a lot of goals.
Unfortunately we are relying again on a bit of magic from you know who.
Joe Gillis
08-09-21, 20:24
I thought it was the away side that was supposed to quieten the crowd.
Danny Gabbidon’s commentary is fine and Gunter is playing very well.
Stick to baseball
Yes, they could nick one if we get careless.
We don't really look like scoring against a side who ship a lot of goals.
Unfortunately we are relying again on a bit of magic from you know who.
we've never been good at breaking down sides that are sitting back
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 20:25
We'll go nowhere with Page in charge, clueless
FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead
08-09-21, 20:27
81 mins, 0-0 in a must win game against a poor side camped in their own half, and we've still got two defensive holding midfielders on the pitch.
Rob Page can f**k off
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 20:27
We'll go nowhere with Page in charge, clueless
Agreed.
now did that not go in x2
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 20:30
now did that not go in x2
Got to score the rebound
j Williams has been very wasteful
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 20:32
81 mins, 0-0 in a must win game against a poor side camped in their own half, and we've still got two defensive holding midfielders on the pitch.
Rob Page can f**k off
Unbelievable isn't it.
Estonia have conceded 15 in 3 qualifiers. This is desperately poor
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 20:35
Estonia have conceded 15 in 3 qualifiers. This is desperately poor
Embarrassingly so
Estonia have conceded 15 in 3 qualifiers. This is desperately poor
we could have scored 3. just not our night
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 20:36
we could have scored 3. just not our night
They could have scored three, embarrassing. We don't score now we join a list of three teams that have failed to score against Estonia (I'm sure that's what the commentator said)
Cleve van Leef
08-09-21, 20:39
81 mins, 0-0 in a must win game against a poor side camped in their own half, and we've still got two defensive holding midfielders on the pitch.
Rob Page can f**k off
If you want to put the blame somewhere, put it squarely on Ryan Giggs, he's f***ed it up, not Page
UNDERHILL1927
08-09-21, 20:39
If you want to put the blame somewhere, put it squarely on Ryan Giggs, he's f***ed it up, not Page
Giggs has been in charge of the tactics and substitutions today has he?
Gunter's delivery has been poor
That’s our W.C qualifying campaign done. I don’t care if we should have scored three. This is fukking Estonia. It’s the worst result for many years.
We will make the play offs via the Nations League but will be unseeded.
Between now and then the managerial position has to be sorted out.
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 20:45
Robert Page is shit.
Classless as well walking away from the Estonian manager who was looking to shake his hand.
Ultimately our great ride is over.
Our game changers aren’t what they were and the promising youngsters haven’t quite reached the heights we hoped for.
Some barren times ahead I think...but it’s all good.
Keep supporting Good or Bad!!
the other bob wilson
08-09-21, 20:45
What’s the point in picking on individuals when the team was so poor?
I don’t understand why a squad with so many good attacking players carries so little goal threat.
Keiffer Moore’s had a good week.
It's as if the manager only realised a win would be a positive result at 65 mins, that said more than enough chances created to win comfortably.
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 20:47
Gunter's delivery has been poor
Did you miss the chance that he put on a plate for Wilson?
That’s our W.C qualifying campaign done. I don’t care if we should have scored three. This is fukking Estonia. It’s the worst result for many years.
We will make the play offs via the Nations League but will be unseeded.
Between now and then the managerial position has to be sorted out.
Agreed, this is an extremely embarrassing result. The signs were there in Belarus but we got lucky. We have blown an easy opportunity to get into a strong position to qualify
Stanmore Bluebird
08-09-21, 20:47
Forget Wales; just get behind the City. After all, this is their message board.
FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead
08-09-21, 20:49
Forget Wales; just get behind the City. After all, this is their message board.
Can't believe I'm saying this but I would genuinely take City's midfield over Wales' at the moment!
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 20:49
Forget Wales; just get behind the City. After all, this is their message board.
Piss Off!!!
Bald Barry Bastad
08-09-21, 20:52
If you want to have a go at anyone have a go at the Welsh authorities who are in charge of developing Welsh football. Players like Morrell, Allen, Gunter, Harris and others are not good enough if you aspire to be a decent international football team. We're miles off it.
Once Giggs was caught up in his legal battle we should have brought in a manager on a rolling contract, we wouldn't have been short of takers going into the euros.
Page is killing us,awful manager.
Broken Machine
08-09-21, 20:54
If you want to have a go at anyone have a go at the Welsh authorities who are in charge of developing Welsh football. Players like Morrell, Allen, Gunter, Harris and others are not good enough if you aspire to be a decent international football team. We're miles off it.
The FAW have very little involvement in bringing through talent. Cardiff City's revenue drawfs the FAW's.
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 20:57
Page should be canned off right now regardless of the Giggs outcome.
Give Bellamy a chance.
Thank f**k we never signed Jonnie Williams
Playacting waster
Stanmore Bluebird
08-09-21, 21:04
Piss Off!!!
Why?
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 21:06
Why?
Have you not noticed that a large majority of posters in here support Wales?
Llandaff Blue
08-09-21, 21:07
Why?
because most on here support wales you wally
We wasted too many guilt edge chances and should have won the game but let's be honest, even if we'd have sneaked a win tonight, we simply do not have enough depth of quality to overtake Belgium.
Still have a chance of runners up but we will have to improve drastically.
19bluebirds27
08-09-21, 21:25
Why no VAR tonight like there was on Sunday?
Not that there was anything for it to look at.
Taffy Blue in Berkshire
08-09-21, 21:28
Thank f**k we never signed Jonnie Williams
Playacting waster
he was pretty poor again and wonder why he even gets in the squad.
LeningradCowboy
08-09-21, 21:30
I can't see us qualifying unless we can find some better options than Allen and Morrell in central midfield.
Classless as well walking away from the Estonian manager who was looking to shake his hand.
This is a disgrace if true. Page seems like a very likeable bloke but that would be well out of order.
cityhammer
08-09-21, 21:51
Why no VAR tonight like there was on Sunday?
Not that there was anything for it to look at.
There was. There was an announcement in the stadium before the game.
LeningradCowboy
08-09-21, 21:56
Why were there massive queues outside the stadium just before before kickoff? Did the entire crowd turn up at the same time?
Why were there massive queues outside the stadium just before before kickoff? Did the entire crowd turn up at the same time?
I don’t normally go in the Ninian but despite the large number of entrances, only 9 was being used. Is that usual?
19bluebirds27
08-09-21, 22:13
There was. There was an announcement in the stadium before the game.
I stand corrected - missed that.
Like I said nothing to look at.
C'mon people, I know we're all disappointed but seems that so many are ready to rush towards negativity.
Giggs is almost definitely Wales' most expensive manager of all time and as a small nation it's highly unlikely that we can continue to pay him and employ a new manager. I don't think Page is the man, and think money needs to be spent on his supporting case to give him the best chance, but I accept our options are limited and recognise how well he's done to keep momentum going.
Next we're moaning about the players? Okay, some clearly have limitations but most of them are a group who flew to Kazan and back having spent the summer flying to Baku and back. They've literally put in the miles to get our support - support which previously has got them playing above their usual standards - and the Estonian keeper won't have a better day this year.
Klopp described Liverpool fans as journey hunters recently. Our journey has become more difficult tonight and it's bitterly disappointing, but it's roughly 10 years since Earnshaw's bad miss at Wembley which really is the day Together Stronger was born and we're so much better for it.
A lot of hard work to develop things in preparation for two big away games, and then two big home games where it's our job to fill up the CCS.
A pretty sh*t return for Welsh football at the CCS but our job is to be good supporters and push us forward even though the difficult moments. Who's up for supporting the Welsh women's team when they play at CCS next?
Next chance to support Wales/Cymru at the CCS: https://www.faw.cymru/en/wales/match-centre/wales-v-greece-26th-october-2021/
Oh look, it's against Estonia as well. Chance to put it right? :wales:
Divine Wright
08-09-21, 22:28
Being completely rational and objective, coming second to Belgium (if we can manage it) was probably the most likely outcome.
Drawing to Estonia wasn't.
If we don't manage to get through the qualifying stages, I feel like it's about time the FAW cast their net a little bit wider when looking for a manager. The philosophy of hiring from within has undoubtedly worked wonders. I just can't help but think there have been occasions when we probably could have expected a little more from the team, and that this might be in some part down to managerial know-how.
I get the feeling sometimes that you could stick any Welsh, former pro in that position and the team spirit and raw talent of the team would carry them through...... to a certain extent. I do wonder though how far we could go if the inate abilities of the players and group were accompanied by some real managerial nous.
I'm not just saying this after tonight's game either. I though the Euros performances were generally a bit lightweight and desperate on the whole.
Divine Wright
08-09-21, 22:31
C'mon people, I know we're all disappointed but seems that so many are ready to rush towards negativity.
Giggs is almost definitely Wales' most expensive manager of all time and as a small nation it's highly unlikely that we can continue to pay him and employ a new manager. I don't think Page is the man, and think money needs to be spent on his supporting case to give him the best chance, but I accept our options are limited and recognise how well he's done to keep momentum going.
Next we're moaning about the players? Okay, some clearly have limitations but most of them are a group who flew to Kazan and back having spent the summer flying to Baku and back. They've literally put in the miles to get our support - support which previously has got them playing above their usual standards - and the Estonian keeper won't have a better day this year.
Klopp described Liverpool fans as journey hunters recently. Our journey has become more difficult tonight and it's bitterly disappointing, but it's roughly 10 years since Earnshaw's bad miss at Wembley which really is the day Together Stronger was born and we're so much better for it.
A lot of hard work to develop things in preparation for two big away games, and then two big home games where it's our job to fill up the CCS.
A pretty sh*t return for Welsh football at the CCS but our job is to be good supporters and push us forward even though the difficult moments. Who's up for supporting the Welsh women's team when they play at CCS next?
well said.
The Lone Gunman
08-09-21, 22:41
How did Wilson miss that???
He missed that chance because Wilson's a decent player by Championship standards, but that's about it. He's nowhere near as good as he and some of his supporters believe him to be.
There was a time, fairly recently, when those who rate Harry Wilson were suggesting he was worth £20 million, £25 million or even £30 million. Fulham paid £12 million and I believe they got done by Jurgen Klopp. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't think Wilson will ever be a Premier League regular. The Championship is his level.
Wash DC Blue
08-09-21, 22:41
This is a disgrace if true. Page seems like a very likeable bloke but that would be well out of order.
It did happen on the camera footage that I watched.
I’m sorry for highlighting it now to be honest, just disappointed in the game and the outcome.
I think that Page comes across as a Gentlemen and this shouldn’t be a stick to beat him with.
Why on earth was Williams brought on ahead of Johnson? One's a Championship regular, the other plays for Swindon ffs! Why did Morrell and Allen play the full 90 AGAIN? Why was Roberts picked up front? Desperately poor.
SunderlandBluebird
08-09-21, 23:53
A massive missed opportunity tonight and some strange calls again by Page. Williams should never have come on for Wilson and he should’ve also had the bottle to take him off around the 70 min mark imo but he didn’t. It’s a shame we’re in the position we’re in with Page as we can’t move on from him or appoint anyone else whilst the Giggs stuff hangs over us so I don’t see why Twitter etc is calling for it - unfortunately we’re with him until the campaign is over now. I don’t think anyone thinks he’d be in charge had Giggs pleaded guilty and lost his job a year ago. It is what it is though and hopefully we can sneak through the play offs.
Really disappointing but we’ve had worse days in fairness. Still well within our grasp to qualify and it’ll go down to the wire with the play offs but it’s all so flat at the moment. A bit of Bale magic or nothing. It doesn’t bode well for when he retires as no one seems to be stepping up at all which is a worry.
the other bob wilson
09-09-21, 07:04
No late winner to paper over Welsh attacking limitations this time – a really bad night.
Young attackers still not doing enough as Keiffer Moore is badly missed.
http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
Stanmore Bluebird
09-09-21, 07:16
Have you not noticed that a large majority of posters in here support Wales?
We are the famous Cardiff City and we’ve been to “Wemberly” 7 times. Twice in the 1920s v. Sheffield Utd and Arsenal. 5 times in recent years v. Pompey, Liverpool, Barnsley, Spurs (in the Premiership) and Blackpool.
I can only support one team like I am with my first and last wife. Following players like Joe Allen and Sam Vokes who celebrate like mad when they score against the City is something I cannot do. Have no time for plastics from Cardiff who support other club teams but for some reason still sympathise with Wales.
I want Wales to do well and cheer their successes. But Cardiff City come first for me any day.
There was. There was an announcement in the stadium before the game.
There was a short video about 20mins before kick off but no teams announcements at all , what was that about ?
Thought Wales were better in the last 25mins but it reminded me a lot of Giggs' games before he discovered Moore. Some nice short passage of play with no end result. Looked distinctly toothless.
I thought Mark Harris posed much more of a threat than Roberts and should have started.
Few things that disappointed me last night, a few "fans" doing their best to boo loudly the players showing their stand against racism and discrimination; a group trying to get a Cardiff City chant going, and a lot of boos at the final whistle. It wasn't the best game, but given the ridiculous conditions around Sunday's game and the number of missing important players 4 points over the 2 games wasn't bad.
the other bob wilson
09-09-21, 09:13
Few things that disappointed me last night, a few "fans" doing their best to boo loudly the players showing their stand against racism and discrimination; a group trying to get a Cardiff City chant going, and a lot of boos at the final whistle. It wasn't the best game, but given the ridiculous conditions around Sunday's game and the number of missing important players 4 points over the 2 games wasn't bad.
Sorry, I think the last part of your post is pre 2016 thinking, Wales have moved on and nothing but six points would do from games against teams sixty and ninety places below us in the world rankings.
UNDERHILL1927
09-09-21, 09:15
Few things that disappointed me last night, a few "fans" doing their best to boo loudly the players showing their stand against racism and discrimination; a group trying to get a Cardiff City chant going, and a lot of boos at the final whistle. It wasn't the best game, but given the ridiculous conditions around Sunday's game and the number of missing important players 4 points over the 2 games wasn't bad.
4 points over two games against those teams is bad. The team we had out yesterday was more than strong enough to beat an awful Estonian team.
UNDERHILL1927
09-09-21, 09:16
Looking forward to the playoff. We come up against a manager with slight tactical skills and we're ****ed.
We are the famous Cardiff City and we’ve been to “Wemberly” 7 times. Twice in the 1920s v. Sheffield Utd and Arsenal. 5 times in recent years v. Pompey, Liverpool, Barnsley, Spurs (in the Premiership) and Blackpool.
I can only support one team like I am with my first and last wife. Following players like Joe Allen and Sam Vokes who celebrate like mad when they score against the City is something I cannot do. Have no time for plastics from Cardiff who support other club teams but for some reason still sympathise with Wales.
I want Wales to do well and cheer their successes. But Cardiff City come first for me any day.
Great, good for you. Now why do you feel the need to join a Wales thread to tell us who have the intelligence and emotional capacity to support a club AND national team to stop talking about it? Just leave us to it :shrug:
mazadona10
09-09-21, 09:47
Was awful and has been terrible recently apart from the Turkey performance.
We basicslly wasted the first half practicing our passing and keeping possesion against a team who are happy to give it up. I know there were injuries but its not good enough.
This passing philosophy isnt going to get us anywhere as any decent team we are coming up against are going to do it better, plus Allen and Morrell arent good enough. We have good ball carriers in the forward positions and shpuld be utilising that. The passing was so slow that by the time the ball got to anyone decent they were covered.
We should have won the game but its been poor under Page for long enough.
I think his stubborn attitude towards older players left is massively short for options in this squad. I said it before but dont tell me that Vokes or Evans wouldnt have offered more than Colwill or Roberts playing out of position.
Was awful and has been terrible recently apart from the Turkey performance.
We basicslly wasted the first half practicing our passing and keeping possesion against a team who are happy to give it up. I know there were injuries but its not good enough.
This passing philosophy isnt going to get us anywhere as any decent team we are coming up against are going to do it better, plus Allen and Morrell arent good enough. We have good ball carriers in the forward positions and shpuld be utilising that. The passing was so slow that by the time the ball got to anyone decent they were covered.
We should have won the game but its been poor under Page for long enough.
I think his stubborn attitude towards older players left is massively short for options in this squad. I said it before but dont tell me that Vokes or Evans wouldnt have offered more than Colwill or Roberts playing out of position.
Sam Vokes wouldn't, he wasn't particularly impressive when he was in his 20s nevermind now. I assume you're on about Ched? He's not worth the hassle and at 32 (33 in December) isn't a realistic long term option anyway
Harris should have started both games, he's the only recognised striker in the squad.
mazadona10
09-09-21, 10:44
Its not a long term option of course not but they are more like for like with moore. These games are now. Especially when teams are going to flood the middle and you have to try and get something in the box to work a chance. Yes we did manage to get through the middle a couple of times but we didnt create enough. Page saying had enough chances to win 2 games is trying to cover his own tracks.
Its not a long term option of course not but they are more like for like with moore. These games are now. Especially when teams are going to flood the middle and you have to try and get something in the box to work a chance. Yes we did manage to get through the middle a couple of times but we didnt create enough. Page saying had enough chances to win 2 games is trying to cover his own tracks.
I think we do need actual strikers on the pitch, we look far better and more structured, but Vokes/Evans aren't the answer for me.
Sorry, I think the last part of your post is pre 2016 thinking, Wales have moved on and nothing but six points would do from games against teams sixty and ninety places below us in the world rankings.
No need for the sorry, it's all about opinions isn't it? I prefer to look for the positives where possible, a stronger squad over the next 4 games and we can still finish 2nd in the group and get some momentum going in to a play off.
4 points over two games against those teams is bad. The team we had out yesterday was more than strong enough to beat an awful Estonian team.
Agreed we should have won last night, and had the chances to do so. I think we will win away in Estonia as they'll be forced to come at us more and leave more gaps. I fancy us to perform better in October and November than these recent early season performances.
Last night's result really heaps pressure on the net round of fixtures. There's no room for more slip ups now if we want a decent draw in the playoffs. We could have gone into that 2 points clear of the Czechs with a game in hand, now we have to get something away in Prague and go and beat Estonia away in the space of 3 days
Don Corleone
09-09-21, 13:49
Last night's result really heaps pressure on the net round of fixtures. There's no room for more slip ups now if we want a decent draw in the playoffs. We could have gone into that 2 points clear of the Czechs with a game in hand, now we have to get something away in Prague and go and beat Estonia away in the space of 3 days
Very true, a win yesterday would have meant a point away in the Czech Republic and we wouldn’t need to worry about getting anything from the Belgium game to come 2nd, now there is pressure on to come away with a min 4 points from those 2 games. Estonia were not very good, we should beat them at home even if it’s only by one goal
Great, good for you. Now why do you feel the need to join a Wales thread to tell us who have the intelligence and emotional capacity to support a club AND national team to stop talking about it? Just leave us to it :shrug:
Quite a bizzare thing to say wasn't it. No logic whatsoever.
Citizen's Nephew
09-09-21, 16:57
No late winner to paper over Welsh attacking limitations this time – a really bad night.
Young attackers still not doing enough as Keiffer Moore is badly missed.
http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
100% agree that Giggs should have done the honorable thing and put Wales first. I think it's a fair reflection of the match and performance but I do feel you're being very charitable in describing Page as being 'limited tactically'.
I came home really disappointed with everyone and I'm not even convinced Moore could have saved that managerial performance. Let's face it, Bale got him out of jail against Belarus. But talking of Bale, I watched him off the ball last night and I was struck by just how unfit he looks. In the first half, he made a run down the right flank with a burst of slowish speed by his standards which beat an average Estonian RB(?) to make a cross which was poor. There were roughly 20 mins on the clock. I'm pretty sure the cameras wouldn't have picked him out bent over, hands on knees, recovering whilst play is happening in the centre of the park (did they?). That's 20 mins in.
In the second half, I can't recall a single right flank attack (and if there was I must have blinked) because the second half consisted of a rinse and repeat festival of football consisting of an 'attack' which went: Ward to Ampadu to Davies to James and then something involving Williams falling over or an Estonian making a mistake only for MOM IMO Hein to pull off an obscenely brilliant save.
Morell shouldn't be in a Wales squad (4 loan spells from Bristol City to Sutton, Margate, Cheltenham and Lincoln) before heading off to Luton and ending up with Portsmouth. In that time he's scored 3 goals over all clubs between 2013 - 2021. He's made 21 senior appearances for Wales since 2019! How?
I really feel for Vaulks.
Estonia made 5 substitutions (2 @ 20mins to go when they were knackered and we made none in that same period). Page made 2 (one forced because of Wilson's injury but chose to bring on a Swindon player who was released by Cardiff City) and Harris for Roberts. One of the Estonian subs was @ 30 mins in.
Yes, I think you're being very charitable in describing Page as 'limited tactically'. I think the man's an awful manager and typifies everything I dislike about the FAW's current approach. The match against Denmark should have been his last.
Citizen's Nephew
09-09-21, 17:05
beat an average Estonian RB(?)
obviously meant LB(?)
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
09-09-21, 18:47
obviously meant LB(?)
I disagree about Vaulks; we have a way of playing that he wouldn't manage. I'm not enamoured with Morrell either but he's been brought through the system and can trap a ball most of the time.
The players who should be taking his place in the long run are Levitt and Smith (it looks like Ampadu will become a centre half) but are probably deemed to be too inexperienced at present. It's not ideal but there it is. Our conveyor belt runs a little slower most of the time.
Bale's fitness has been discussed for a while. He's been burning those hamstrings off for 16 years but still managed to burst through to hit the post near the end. This was the rusty international break too.
Edit: It's not often you see a sub subbed but Williams should've been taken off; he was being bullied out of everything.
I disagree about Vaulks; we have a way of playing that he wouldn't manage. I'm not enamoured with Morrell either but he's been brought through the system and can trap a ball most of the time.
The players who should be taking his place in the long run are Levitt and Smith (it looks like Ampadu will become a centre half) but are probably deemed to be too inexperienced at present. It's not ideal but there it is. Our conveyor belt runs a little slower most of the time.
Bale's fitness has been discussed for a while. He's been burning those hamstrings off for 16 years but still managed to burst through to hit the post near the end. This was the rusty international break too.
Edit: It's not often you see a sub subbed but Williams should've been taken off; he was being bullied out of everything.
Williams was the completely wrong player to bring on. Headless chicken. Wilson was stretching Estonia's defence by running in behind, Williams didn't do that once as far as I can recall.
Don Corleone
09-09-21, 20:24
Williams was the completely wrong player to bring on. Headless chicken. Wilson was stretching Estonia's defence by running in behind, Williams didn't do that once as far as I can recall.
Agree, Brennan Johnson should have come on for Wilson, it would have been much more like for like and Johnson did okay against Belarus. Williams would have been worth a gamble with 15 mins left to go by taking off Morrell
Citizen's Nephew
10-09-21, 07:53
Williams was the completely wrong player to bring on. Headless chicken. Wilson was stretching Estonia's defence by running in behind, Williams didn't do that once as far as I can recall.
Even Roberts was making runs early on and I thought looked lively until 15 minutes when a hologram took his place. It didn't come off but they completely stopped trying after rattling the Estonian CBs. There were acres of space early on and they were there for the taking. We had plenty of subs to play and fresh legs to start the match against a side like Estonia at Cardiff.
I can't help feeling we could have rested an aging Bale and Allen until the second half (if needed), started with Harris, and rotated a rested midfield who are quick and lively. Page had so many better options and a more than adequate bench after a long trip and tough win a few days earlier. We were playing the minnows at home and bottled it.
I agree with Bluebirdman that he should have subbed the sub, probably at 50 mins when we really needed a goal. Some managers are indecisive. He was found wanting against Denmark so shouldn't have been allowed to manage vital WCQs after that match.
Citizen's Nephew
10-09-21, 08:00
Agree, Brennan Johnson should have come on for Wilson, it would have been much more like for like and Johnson did okay against Belarus. Williams would have been worth a gamble with 15 mins left to go by taking off Morrell
Agree apart from Williams who I never want to see in a Wales squad again. He just doesn't need to be there and in my view, doesn't deserve to be anymore. I'm so not a sentimentalist and Gunter should have been hooked to give us some attacking options on the right (yes I know he put Wilson through early on but was poor after that. Estonia weren't a threat on either flank - we could have played a completely different formation halfway through the first half when they'd been worked out.
Rhiwbina Blues
10-09-21, 09:20
I dont understand this blooding of youth in qualifying matches. We need to have players who have scored at international level available from the bench.
Surely Chester, Vaulks, Andy King, Tom Laurence, Vokes, Robson-Kanu and Ched Evan's would be better options?
King should be starting instead of Morrell.
I dont understand this blooding of youth in qualifying matches. We need to have players who have scored at international level available from the bench.
Surely Chester, Vaulks, Andy King, Tom Laurence, Vokes, Robson-Kanu and Ched Evan's would be better options?
King should be starting instead of Morrell.
Vaulks can't control or pass the ball, Lawrence was injured, Vokes was never particularly impressive when he was in his prime, never mind now, Robson-Kanu doesn't have a club, Evans isn't worth the trouble picking him would bring. King I think should be in there though, Chester I suppose can't be relied upon fitness wise
We had the players in the squad to win, they weren't properly utilised by Page
For much of that game it was almost as if we'd convinced ourselves we'd need to be patient to the extent we just waited for things to happen, rather than imposing ourselves but staying calm if they proved resilient.
Citizen's Nephew
10-09-21, 12:14
For much of that game it was almost as if we'd convinced ourselves we'd need to be patient to the extent we just waited for things to happen, rather than imposing ourselves but staying calm if they proved resilient.
It's kind of weird because I know what you mean but we certainly didn't seem calm and did everything at 100mph except have a plan to impose ourselves. A lot of throw-ins, free-kicks, were rushed and there didn't seem to be any training-ground moves on show.
I was going to ask a general question about Sheehan and found this piece in The Bolton News. (https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/19532533.updated-bolton-wanderers-star-josh-sheehan-standby-wales-squad/)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.