View Full Version : Crowds banned from all sporting events in Wales for foreseeable future
Father Dougal
21-12-21, 00:05
But we can still go to away games for now.....
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/sports-matches-covid-rules-wales-22525909
Father Dougal
21-12-21, 00:25
But we can still go to away games for now.....
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/sports-matches-covid-rules-wales-22525909
Maybe radical but I wonder if the Welsh clubs will consider moving the home games to an English ground? Got to be better having a few thousand Cardiff fans there than playing behind closed doors? Would the league allow it?
Canton Kev
21-12-21, 00:50
Maybe radical but I wonder if the Welsh clubs will consider moving the home games to an English ground? Got to be better having a few thousand Cardiff fans there than playing behind closed doors? Would the league allow it?
I doubt it. What benefits would the English clubs get? Our closest ground would be Ashton Gate in Bristol. In letting us play there they’d be strengthening a relegation rival, ruin their pitch with twice the amount of games being played and probably lose out financially. We’d probably only take 3000 or 4000. I’d also imagine their supporters wouldn’t like their club helping out a rival team.
Father Dougal
21-12-21, 00:55
I doubt it. What benefits would the English clubs get? Our closest ground would be Ashton Gate in Bristol. In letting us play there they’d be strengthening a relegation rival, ruin their pitch with twice the amount of games being played and probably lose out financially. We’d probably only take 3000 or 4000. I’d also imagine their supporters wouldn’t like their club helping out a rival team.
Yeah I was thinking much smaller than that. Likes of Hereford and forest Green rovers. Even Chasetown!
Maybe radical but I wonder if the Welsh clubs will consider moving the home games to an English ground? Got to be better having a few thousand Cardiff fans there than playing behind closed doors? Would the league allow it?
a non-league team might be glad of the income, then size comes into play, around 2 K at Gloucester's new place, Chippenhams place holds just over 3 K
Love the idea of playing at Forest Greens, new lawn stadium.
They would welcome the revenue, and only an hours drive away.
While I appreciate it would never happen, and would certainly not be in the spirit of the restrictions. I am certain we would sell out every game, 5k capacity, and would be a fun / quirky experience for our fan base.
Always enjoyed our pre seasons friendlies at the lawn, and the veggie food is very good!
The English will follow in a couple of weeks.
If Drakeford had any control over the furlough scheme I think we'd have seen a lot more places being closed for a few weeks.
Grangenders
21-12-21, 07:11
Good move by city to call off the Coventry game if they saw this decision coming. We need a good few covid cases for the next few home games too.
Although it might be pointless, I don’t see us being back in the stadium this season
EastbourneBlue
21-12-21, 07:45
But we can still go to away games for now.....
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/sports-matches-covid-rules-wales-22525909
A few thoughts on the shortest day of the year.
There’s loads of events going on with crowds, indoors and outdoors. Where’s the stats to show whether these events are spreaders?
Is this closure an acceptance that vaccine passports don’t work?
If the third jab protects 80% or whatever figure we’re currently quoting, shouldn’t at least those people be able to attend?
Half of the people currently in hospital with Covid in London were admitted for another problem
This decision could see us relegated !!!
Will Duckford be able to compensate the club for that ?
A few thoughts on the shortest day of the year.
There’s loads of events going on with crowds, indoors and outdoors. Where’s the stats to show whether these events are spreaders?
Is this closure an acceptance that vaccine passports don’t work?
If the third jab protects 80% or whatever figure we’re currently quoting, shouldn’t at least those people be able to attend?
Half of the people currently in hospital with Covid in London were admitted for another problem
Until covid passports are only issued if you've had a booster, then their not really worth having if you want to stop omicron spreading. I can see them changing within the next month.
It's outdoors.
Not even a reduced capacity, or for a month or two making the passport negative lft.
the other bob wilson
21-12-21, 08:38
Poor show from Welsh Labour as they arbitrarily close down indoor and outdoor sporting events for spectators.
https://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
Father Dougal
21-12-21, 08:49
It's outdoors.
Not even a reduced capacity, or for a month or two making the passport negative lft.
This is why it's such a lazy law. In a 33,000 seater stadium we aren't even allowed 1,000 people in all who will have been triple vaxxed and a negative test. And the cymru premier games that get about 2 or 300 won't have anyone in. Yet people will be able to watch legally from the bars overlooking the pitch all crowded together and drinking indoors.
They won't explain 'the science' behind why only the indoors drinking and crowded scenario is now legal but it would be interesting to hear.
But we can still go to away games for now.....
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/sports-matches-covid-rules-wales-22525909
someone should tell radio wales our game has already been cancelled:xmashehe:
Undercoverinwurzelland
21-12-21, 08:53
Poor show from Welsh Labour as they arbitrarily close down indoor and outdoor sporting events for spectators.
https://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
It really is inconsistent isn't it.
I agree though, our home form might pick up as a result.
How much of a financial hit will this give us as well if it carries on for long with little or no compensation scheme in place?
EastbourneBlue
21-12-21, 08:55
This decision could see us relegated !!!
Will Duckford be able to compensate the club for that ?
Bristol City chief exec on the radio said each game is worth £400k to them, so £3m ain’t gonna go far.
We’re obviously in financial strife and this is the last thing we needed
Monster munch
21-12-21, 09:01
This is why it's such a lazy law. In a 33,000 seater stadium we aren't even allowed 1,000 people in all who will have been triple vaxxed and a negative test. And the cymru premier games that get about 2 or 300 won't have anyone in. Yet people will be able to watch legally from the bars overlooking the pitch all crowded together and drinking indoors.
They won't explain 'the science' behind why only the indoors drinking and crowded scenario is now legal but it would be interesting to hear.
This.
Boxing day is a big one when it comes to local rugby as well. Everyone will all just pile in to the clubhouses 11am on the piss now where as could have been outside watching the games played.
I can understand trying to stem the covid rate rise and knew something was coming but this latest closure does seem to the extreme.
WJ99mobile
21-12-21, 09:04
This is absolutely pointless because no ones going to listen
Eric the Half a Bee
21-12-21, 09:07
This decision could see us relegated !!!
Will Duckford be able to compensate the club for that ?
Our home form is atrocious. Maybe a lack of crowds will be a blessing!
A Quiet Monkfish
21-12-21, 09:09
Notwithstanding our awful home form, this decision will put the City at a great disadvantage with our fellow relegation strugglers. I think you can expect Pubs to close in New Year, too.
Cymru Am Byth.
This is absolutely pointless because no ones going to listen
What do you mean? Do you think people are going to turn up at the stadium demanding to be let in?
Citizen's Nephew
21-12-21, 09:13
Poor show from Welsh Labour as they arbitrarily close down indoor and outdoor sporting events for spectators.
https://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
I'm glad you posted this Bob. I heard about this last night and couldn't sleep for hours mulling this over and was going to post something similar on here this morning. So I was both surprised and relieved that I am, at least, not going completely mad by not either supporting or understanding the decision by the Welsh government.
I'm actually furious about this because this feels more like panic (not a good look for any leaders) and has very little scientific basis. Once again, we're back to an overloaded health service fear, two years into a pandemic and I'd like to know the logistical planning that has been taking place over this period that should have anticipated the resources required to deal with it.
The real damage now is that, without proper explanation, figures, reasoning, and argument to back this decision, they have made the scientific argument redundant, and thus, they've rendered their own credibility and authority redundant also. It's really damaging. Poorly done. Badly communicated.
Robin Friday's Ghost
21-12-21, 09:22
I'm glad you posted this Bob. I heard about this last night and couldn't sleep for hours mulling this over and was going to post something similar on here this morning. So I was both surprised and relieved that I am, at least, not going completely mad by not either supporting or understanding the decision by the Welsh government.
I'm actually furious about this because this feels more like panic (not a good look for any leaders) and has very little scientific basis. Once again, we're back to an overloaded health service fear, two years into a pandemic and I'd like to know the logistical planning that has been taking place over this period that should have anticipated the resources required to deal with it.
The real damage now is that, without proper explanation, figures, reasoning, and argument to back this decision, they have made the scientific argument redundant, and thus, they've rendered their own credibility and authority redundant also. It's really damaging. Poorly done. Badly communicated.
Agreed. We've constantly been told they're "following the science". Well they're not are they? No real evidence that outside events like this spread the disease. There's also very little evidence on the effects of the Omicron variant and that which does exist suggests its relatively mild. Welsh hospitals are not currently overwhelmed with Covid cases and there's no evidence to suggest they will be. But we've let them impose draconian restrictions without much resistance before so they don't really fear any reprisals from the Welsh electorate.
dandywarhol
21-12-21, 09:39
Excluding the FA Cup game.
We have home games on 15 and 30th January.
If everyone gets boosterd ASAP allowing for the vaccine kick in period of 14 days we could be back in for the game on the 30th.
Llanishen Bull
21-12-21, 09:53
Seems a bizarre call to me. Generally I support the Welsh Gov, they've tried to be proportionate and honest, easy to be like that in comparison with Johnson's shambles I suppose.
This seems random and "we must do something". I suppose it won't cost too much and be less admin compared to shutting hospitality, theatres etc?
One thought, does it apply to TNS whose ground is over the border?
And Hereford have home games over Christmas. December 28th v Gloucester. You'd be very welcome if you need a football fix. (Dons tin hat and retreats rapidly).
LeningradCowboy
21-12-21, 09:56
We must do something.
This is something.
Therefore, we must do this.
JamesWales
21-12-21, 09:56
Presumably we will all be able to pack out our local pubs to watch Boxing day matches? If so, this is a very curious move.
This decision could see us relegated !!!
Will Duckford be able to compensate the club for that ?
Well who is responsible for our appalling home record? If the players are fearful of playing at home, we could be on the play offs by March.
Presumably we will all be able to pack out our local pubs to watch Boxing day matches? If so, this is a very curious move.
They'll be announcing later that it'll be table service only from Boxing day, so pubs won't be packed.
Citizen's Nephew
21-12-21, 10:02
We must do something.
This is something.
Therefore, we must do this.
Brilliant! Poetry even. :xmasthumbup:
Seems a bizarre call to me. Generally I support the Welsh Gov, they've tried to be proportionate and honest, easy to be like that in comparison with Johnson's shambles I suppose.
This seems random and "we must do something". I suppose it won't cost too much and be less admin compared to shutting hospitality, theatres etc?
One thought, does it apply to TNS whose ground is over the border?
And Hereford have home games over Christmas. December 28th v Gloucester. You'd be very welcome if you need a football fix. (Dons tin hat and retreats rapidly).
It does seem odd that outdoor events are cancelled but pubs stay open but I suppose the Welsh Government's hands are tied because the Treasury only step in when England needs support so the Welsh Government has to pick what it can afford.
This decision only really affects us by the Blackburn game as very few people go to the cup games mainly because recent managers haven't treated them properly and by the 15th the decision could be reversed.
Pubs will be next to close.
It does seem odd that outdoor events are cancelled but pubs stay open but I suppose the Welsh Government's hands are tied because the Treasury only step in when England needs support so the Welsh Government has to pick what it can afford.
This decision only really affects us by the Blackburn game as very few people go to the cup games mainly because recent managers haven't treated them properly and by the 15th the decision could be reversed.
No need for them to close pubs as people are staying away anyway. They'll bring back table service and limited numbers but can't do anything else as he has no control over furlough.
Yeah a March to Kim jong Drakefords place will probably occur instead….
They have to do something but can’t do what needs to be done because of the loons in Parliament. So instead there is this token gesture that doesn’t make sense.
Bruce Foxton
21-12-21, 10:46
The fact that they have only earmarked £3m to help ease the burden of this, which in the grand scheme of things isn't a large amount would point to this being a very short term measure. If they did nothing now, and cases surged there would be a very real chance they would have to put restrictions on the 6 nations games, which would cause an even bigger uproar. I think sporting events are taking the hit now in the hope that they wont have to impact on the "Jewel" in Wales crown come February.
Just want to be seen to be doing something
Welsh Government built up goodwill over the last year or so, they're in danger of blowing it with arbitrary rule changes that aren't being properly justified
The fact that they have only earmarked £3m to help ease the burden of this, which in the grand scheme of things isn't a large amount would point to this being a very short term measure. If they did nothing now, and cases surged there would be a very real chance they would have to put restrictions on the 6 NATIONS games, which would cause an even bigger uproar. I think sporting events are taking the hit now in the hope that they wont have to impact on the "Jewel" in Wales crown come February.
Oh, don’t worry, the White Elephant will be open for their freebies
JamesWales
21-12-21, 11:09
The fact that they have only earmarked £3m to help ease the burden of this, which in the grand scheme of things isn't a large amount would point to this being a very short term measure. If they did nothing now, and cases surged there would be a very real chance they would have to put restrictions on the 6 nations games, which would cause an even bigger uproar. I think sporting events are taking the hit now in the hope that they wont have to impact on the "Jewel" in Wales crown come February.
Good point on the 6 nations tbf, which is a much bigger economic and cultural decision and would be far more controversial.
Love the idea of playing at Forest Greens, new lawn stadium.
They would welcome the revenue, and only an hours drive away.
While I appreciate it would never happen, and would certainly not be in the spirit of the restrictions. I am certain we would sell out every game, 5k capacity, and would be a fun / quirky experience for our fan base.
Always enjoyed our pre seasons friendlies at the lawn, and the veggie food is very good!
Its a silly suggestion. How would it be decided who would attend, out of our 13000 plus season ticket holders for a start. Can of worms.
Simple question - where is the evidence that outdoor sporting events that are properly run, such as our home games, have increased transmission of Covid ? I would be very surprised if there is any. Knee jerk, panic reaction by the bunch of idiots in charge. I can see Dripford now, standing at the lectern, coat hanger stuck in his suit as usual, trying to justify this and feeling very important no doubt. They have already stated that the vaccine programme is the way out of this but are now totally ignoring that pushing 90% of the population are double jabbed and over 50% already boosted and this should rise to at least 70% by the end if the month.
Eric the Half a Bee
21-12-21, 11:47
Its a silly suggestion. How would it be decided who would attend, out of our 13000 plus season ticket holders for a start. Can of worms.
We wouldn't have any shortage of volunteers to miss out given some of the garbage that's been dished up on the pitch this season.
We must do something.
This is something.
Therefore, we must do this.
Bollocks he’s just trying to control us in anyway he can…..I can still go to the cinema but not a football match….genius
Simple question - where is the evidence that outdoor sporting events that are properly run, such as our home games, have increased transmission of Covid ? I would be very surprised if there is any. Knee jerk, panic reaction by the bunch of idiots in charge. I can see Dripford now, standing at the lectern, coat hanger stuck in his suit as usual, trying to justify this and feeling very important no doubt. They have already stated that the vaccine programme is the way out of this but are now totally ignoring that pushing 90% of the population are double jabbed and over 50% already boosted and this should rise to at least 70% by the end if the month.
What do you mean by 'properly run'?
It's already been shown that being double jabbed isn't effective enough against omicron spreading. Do you think that having mass gatherings at sporting events will help slow down the growth of omicron or not?
Good point on the 6 nations tbf, which is a much bigger economic and cultural decision and would be far more controversial.
The worlds biggest pub will no doubt have to be closed now too
A strangely illogical decision by Drakeford but I guess he has taken into account the almost certain inevitability that far more stringent controls will be reintroduced by the UK government after Xmas. The Drakeford decision is really daft though as you can eat and booze to your heart's content in pubs and restaurants, spend time in cinemas indoors but cannot attend outdoor sporting events even for those who can prove they are COVID free. The £3m compensation will go nowhere. However, I can't help feeling that the UK government should have been introducing further restrictions now as they are clearly not following the science as they have stressed throughout this pandemic.
Incidentally did anyone know that "Omnicron" is an anagram of "Moronic"? Says something!
EastbourneBlue
21-12-21, 12:57
A strangely illogical decision by Drakeford but I guess he has taken into account the almost certain inevitability that far more stringent controls will be reintroduced by the UK government after Xmas. The Drakeford decision is really daft though as you can eat and booze to your heart's content in pubs and restaurants, spend time in cinemas indoors but cannot attend outdoor sporting events even for those who can prove they are COVID free. The £3m compensation will go nowhere. However, I can't help feeling that the UK government should have been introducing further restrictions now as they are clearly not following the science as they have stressed throughout this pandemic.
Incidentally did anyone know that "Omnicron" is an anagram of "Moronic"? Says something!
I’m sure Drakey will shut down everything in due course.
I think the truth is there’s lots of different opinions in the science community. I’m getting a little frustrated that it’s the same ones who always get heard.
A strangely illogical decision by Drakeford but I guess he has taken into account the almost certain inevitability that far more stringent controls will be reintroduced by the UK government after Xmas. The Drakeford decision is really daft though as you can eat and booze to your heart's content in pubs and restaurants, spend time in cinemas indoors but cannot attend outdoor sporting events even for those who can prove they are COVID free. The £3m compensation will go nowhere. However, I can't help feeling that the UK government should have been introducing further restrictions now as they are clearly not following the science as they have stressed throughout this pandemic.
Incidentally did anyone know that "Omnicron" is an anagram of "Moronic"? Says something!
Omnicron is an anagram of 'moronic n'. Omicron, however ....
What do you mean? Do you think people are going to turn up at the stadium demanding to be let in?
"We now go live to the Cardiff City Stadium where the match will actually now be played in front of spectators because the City fans didn't listen" :hehe:
ninian opinian
21-12-21, 13:09
There is absolutely no way that Drakeford would cancel sporting events if he didn’t have a very good reason. What would he get out of it except grief.
Could it be because sporting events need front line staff attendance eg police, ambulance staff etc?
So many staff are off work after testing positive (and worse it’s going to get) that they probably need everyone on other priorities.
A Quiet Monkfish
21-12-21, 13:15
There is absolutely no way that Drakeford would cancel sporting events if he didn’t have a very good reason. What would he get out of it except grief.
Could it be because sporting events need front line staff attendance eg police, ambulance staff etc?
So many staff are off work after testing positive (and worse it’s going to get) that they probably need everyone on other priorities.
He lives in Pontcanna, I think. Just in case you'd like to pop round and lick his a***
He lives in Pontcanna, I think. Just in case you'd like to pop round and lick his a***
Sometimes I forget how much of a badass you are then you post something like this and I remember
Omnicron is an anagram of 'moronic n'. Omicron, however ....
Apologies; it's Omicron. Too late to edit.
cityhammer
21-12-21, 13:56
There is absolutely no way that Drakeford would cancel sporting events if he didn’t have a very good reason. What would he get out of it except grief.
Could it be because sporting events need front line staff attendance eg police, ambulance staff etc?
So many staff are off work after testing positive (and worse it’s going to get) that they probably need everyone on other priorities.
That’s a fair argument, but if that’s the reason I’m sure he’d have explained that!
Apologies; it's Omicron. Too late to edit.
Every now and then you see newsreaders and reporters trying really hard not to say the same 🙂
"We now go live to the Cardiff City Stadium where the match will actually now be played in front of spectators because the City fans didn't listen" :hehe:
You will never ban a city fan
ninian opinian
21-12-21, 14:27
He lives in Pontcanna, I think. Just in case you'd like to pop round and lick his a***
If that kind of thing turns you on crack on mate (pun intended).
You will never ban a city fan
I've never understood that chant, it makes no sense whatsoever. Is there a reason for it from back in the day that I'm not aware of?
I've never understood that chant, it makes no sense whatsoever. Is there a reason for it from back in the day that I'm not aware of?
Apart from it rhyming, which is always a decent starting point for any football chant, i think that it may go back to the days when away fans were getting banned from attending the South Wales Derby, think it happened twice? I think that there was also paper talk from other clubs chairman about banning us from their ground if i recall correctly, although that was probably around 1986 onwards. We also used to have a ridiculous amount of fans on banning orders, we were very successful on that front. So, in short, City fans were banned.
the other bob wilson
21-12-21, 15:42
Scotland goes a very similar way, but they have an intended end date and are allowing 500 per game.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59745262
Scotland goes a very similar way, but they have an intended end date and are allowing 500 per game.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59745262
The scrum to see us lose again would be unimaginable.
. So, in short, City fans were banned.
Yeah that's why it's such a weird chant :hehe:
the other bob wilson
21-12-21, 15:53
The scrum to see us lose again would be unimaginable.
:xmashehe:
JamesWales
21-12-21, 16:06
Scotland goes a very similar way, but they have an intended end date and are allowing 500 per game.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59745262
Whether any of it is right is up for debate, and I'm not a Sturgeon fan at all, but this is far more sensible and fair.
90% of Scottish sport can go ahead. As if a few hundred people scattered around a rugby or football pitch will make much difference, yet we've stopped it all.
Drakeford seems a bit drunk on it all.
I've never understood that chant, it makes no sense whatsoever. Is there a reason for it from back in the day that I'm not aware of?
Why? They tried to ban us but we still went anyway…..
Armitage Shanks
21-12-21, 17:05
Away following will increase. Looking forward to WBA
The Lone Gunman
21-12-21, 17:16
I've never understood that chant, it makes no sense whatsoever. Is there a reason for it from back in the day that I'm not aware of?
I could be wrong about this, but I think it dates back to the days when City fans were required to produce vouchers for entry to away games. I can't even remember how that system was supposed to work exactly - I think the vouchers were only supposed to be distributed to fans on the day by club and Supporters' Club officials or something like that. However, plenty of rogues found ways around the system, mainly by printing shitloads of their own.
I can remember a few of the lads on my old bus getting into trouble over the vouchers at somewhere like Crewe or Bury or somewhere similar. They'd somehow got hold of a couple of vouchers for that game in advance and had printed a couple of hundred copies, which they were handing out to anyone who wanted them outside the ground in defiance of the club and CCSC.
I honestly can't remember the exact details of the voucher nonsense or even when they attempted to implement it (mid-Eighties I think?), but I can remember loads of City fans were pissed off about it and I'm pretty sure that period was when the 'you'll never ban a City fan' chant was born.
Father Dougal
21-12-21, 17:21
I could be wrong about this, but I think it dates back to the days when City fans were required to produce vouchers for entry to away games. I can't even remember how that system was supposed to work exactly - I think the vouchers were only supposed to be distributed to fans on the day by club and Supporters' Club officials or something like that. However, plenty of rogues found ways around the system, mainly by printing shitloads of their own.
I can remember a few of the lads on my old bus getting into trouble over the vouchers at somewhere like Crewe or Bury or somewhere similar. They'd somehow got hold of a couple of vouchers for that game in advance and had printed a couple of hundred copies, which they were handing out to anyone who wanted them outside the ground in defiance of the club and CCSC.
I honestly can't remember the exact details of the voucher nonsense or even when they attempted to implement it (mid-Eighties I think?), but I can remember loads of City fans were pissed off about it and I'm pretty sure that period was when the 'you'll never ban a City fan' chant was born.
Wasn't it about the cup winners cup game v derry city in 1988?
Wasn't it about the cup winners cup game v derry city in 1988?
That's a good shout, although some City Fans did make it to the Brandywell Stadium and were treated incredibly well, apparently. I do recall the vouchers TLG is talking about. You could only get them if you went to an away game through an official Travel Group. Thing is, the vouchers were like those tickets your mum would take from the machine, at the meat counter in the supermarket. Easy to replicate.
The Lone Gunman
21-12-21, 17:38
That's a good shout, although some City Fans did make it to the Brandywell Stadium and were treated incredibly well, apparently. I do recall the vouchers TLG is talking about. You could only get them if you went to an away game through an official Travel Group. Thing is, the vouchers were like those tickets your mum would take from the machine, at the meat counter in the supermarket. Easy to replicate.
That was it - they were supposed to be 'official' but were easy to copy. The lads had a carrier bag full on the trip I can remember (although I can't remember where we were going). Another thing I remember is that plenty of the host clubs during that period couldn't have cared less about the vouchers anyway and let City fans in without them, so they were basically a farce. Some of the CCSC officials at the time were really arsey about those vouchers as I recall, but those of us who travelled unofficially always got into the ground eventually, even if it meant going in the home end, owning up and being taken around the pitch to the away end (I remember doing that a couple of times).
splott parker
21-12-21, 17:38
He lives in Pontcanna, I think. Just in case you'd like to pop round and lick his a***
Erm.....social distancing is still being advised.
The Lone Gunman
21-12-21, 17:39
Wasn't it about the cup winners cup game v derry city in 1988?
Maybe, but I remember it being sung a lot around that time as efforts were made to bring the away support under some sort of control (usually without much success).
That was it - they were supposed to be 'official' but were easy to copy. The lads had a carrier bag full on the trip I can remember (although I can't remember where we were going). Another thing I remember is that plenty of the host clubs during that period couldn't have cared less about the vouchers anyway and let City fans in without them, so they were basically a farce. Some of the CCSC officials at the time were really arsey about those vouchers as I recall, but those of us who travelled unofficially always got into the ground eventually, even if it meant going in the home end, owning up and being taken around the pitch to the away end (I remember doing that a couple of times).
Yeah, Smaller clubs didn't give a shit, they didn't want to lose the revenue and the police didn't want City fans hanging about the Town centre for a couple of hours getting pissed. And we were all fenced in back then, although that didn't seem to stop the trouble :hehe:
Maybe, but I remember it being sung a lot around that time as efforts were made to bring the away support under some sort of control (usually without much success).
At the same time as 'If you like a lot of fighting at your football join our club' Pinched from the advert below :hehe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LmZCMmNPkM
At the same time as 'If you like a lot of fighting at your football join our club' Pinched from the advert below :hehe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LmZCMmNPkM
,
Taunton Blue Genie
21-12-21, 18:01
Simple question - where is the evidence that outdoor sporting events that are properly run, such as our home games, have increased transmission of Covid ? I would be very surprised if there is any. Knee jerk, panic reaction by the bunch of idiots in charge. I can see Dripford now, standing at the lectern, coat hanger stuck in his suit as usual, trying to justify this and feeling very important no doubt. They have already stated that the vaccine programme is the way out of this but are now totally ignoring that pushing 90% of the population are double jabbed and over 50% already boosted and this should rise to at least 70% by the end if the month.
I suppose that the risk of spreading the virus extends either side of actually being in the stadium. Sharing cars, travelling by public transport, drinking in pubs, eating in cafes, queueing for buses/trains/entry to the stadium and in the loos and at the food and drinks areas at the ground.
life on mars
21-12-21, 18:09
What happened to the old mantra that outside events were safer than crowded indoor places like pubs , shops ,trains, seems old Drakey felt he had to do something to appear presidential and sport and nightclubs were an easy target , especially as there's no big wugger games around .
I could be wrong about this, but I think it dates back to the days when City fans were required to produce vouchers for entry to away games. I can't even remember how that system was supposed to work exactly - I think the vouchers were only supposed to be distributed to fans on the day by club and Supporters' Club officials or something like that. However, plenty of rogues found ways around the system, mainly by printing shitloads of their own.
I can remember a few of the lads on my old bus getting into trouble over the vouchers at somewhere like Crewe or Bury or somewhere similar. They'd somehow got hold of a couple of vouchers for that game in advance and had printed a couple of hundred copies, which they were handing out to anyone who wanted them outside the ground in defiance of the club and CCSC.
I honestly can't remember the exact details of the voucher nonsense or even when they attempted to implement it (mid-Eighties I think?), but I can remember loads of City fans were pissed off about it and I'm pretty sure that period was when the 'you'll never ban a City fan' chant was born.
Riiight, this is what I was after, I thought there might be something. Thank you :xmasthumbup:
What do you mean by 'properly run'?
It's already been shown that being double jabbed isn't effective enough against omicron spreading. Do you think that having mass gatherings at sporting events will help slow down the growth of omicron or not?
Your second question is illogical. Allowing outdoor sporting events to resume was not a ploy to try to get the covid rate down, it was a response to falling Covid rates but also the fact that all the evidence indicated that risks at outdoor events were greatly reduced. This has not changed. The point is that there is little, if any, evidence that holding outdoor sporting events adds to Covid rates or risks. Therefore stopping outdoor events whilst allowing pubs, restaurants, theatres, cinemas etc etc to remain open is stupid in the extreme. In any event, current hospitalisation rates, deaths, intensive care bed occupation rates are actually falling, so all this is pure guesswork by Drakeford and his cronies. With regard to ‘properly run’, you know exactly what I mean and it would be simple to add the need have had a booster dose to get access to stadiums.
I'm gutted about the new restrictions but a lot of you referring to "outdoor events" seem to be pretending that you just click your fingers and are transported to your seat. The concourse is an absolute Covid factory, let alone the queues to get out and the toilets
I suppose that the risk of spreading the virus extends either side of actually being in the stadium. Sharing cars, travelling by public transport, drinking in pubs, eating in cafes, queueing for buses/trains/entry to the stadium and in the loos and at the food and drinks areas at the ground.
The word ‘suppose’ is very important here. That is exactly what Drakeford and his advisers are doing. There is no direct evidence.
splott parker
21-12-21, 18:24
I'm gutted about the new restrictions but a lot of you referring to "outdoor events" seem to be pretending that you just click your fingers and are transported to your seat. The concourse is an absolute Covid factory, let alone the queues to get out and the toilets
Pubs packed before and after the game as well.......packed public transport, ironically, wouldn’t have been a problem on Boxing Day, none running.
I'm gutted about the new restrictions but a lot of you referring to "outdoor events" seem to be pretending that you just click your fingers and are transported to your seat. The concourse is an absolute Covid factory, let alone the queues to get out and the toilets
Masks are supposed to be worn in all those areas already. Who’s fault is it if some people don't bother ? This can be more strictly enforced if necessary. Why should people who follow the ground and government regulations be penalised over the actions of those that cant be bothered. Anyone found not complying should be ejected from the stadium. Where is the evidence anyway that mass spreading of Covid is occurring at football stadiums.
Masks are supposed to be worn in all those areas already. Who’s fault is it if some people don't bother ? This can be more strictly enforced if necessary. Why should people who follow the ground and government regulations be penalised over the actions of those that cant be bothered. Anyone found not complying should be ejected from the stadium. Where is the evidence anyway that mass spreading of Covid is occurring at football stadiums.
If you're expecting the stewards on minimum wage to start chucking out groups of pissed up maskless Cardiff City fans then you're off your head
Your second question is illogical. Allowing outdoor sporting events to resume was not a ploy to try to get the covid rate down, it was a response to falling Covid rates but also the fact that all the evidence indicated that risks at outdoor events were greatly reduced. This has not changed. The point is that there is little, if any, evidence that holding outdoor sporting events adds to Covid rates or risks. Therefore stopping outdoor events whilst allowing pubs, restaurants, theatres, cinemas etc etc to remain open is stupid in the extreme. In any event, current hospitalisation rates, deaths, intensive care bed occupation rates are actually falling, so all this is pure guesswork by Drakeford and his cronies. With regard to ‘properly run’, you know exactly what I mean and it would be simple to add the need have had a booster dose to get access to stadiums.
Has there been an announcement on hospitality in Wales next wee? I must have missed that. I thought there was a meeting today and an announcement to follow.
As for evidence of outdoor events adding to the spread just look at what scientists thought about Cheltenham last year and Liverpools Champions league game. There isn't that much evidence subsequently as fans weren't allowed in. Do you think they should be to help build up a basket of evidence?
19bluebirds27
21-12-21, 19:05
We had a decent overall record during the lockdown seasons.
Perhaps us supporters being locked out of the CCS maybe a blessing considering how bad things have been so far this season.
Robin Friday's Ghost
21-12-21, 20:41
Has there been an announcement on hospitality in Wales next wee? I must have missed that. I thought there was a meeting today and an announcement to follow.
As for evidence of outdoor events adding to the spread just look at what scientists thought about Cheltenham last year and Liverpools Champions league game. There isn't that much evidence subsequently as fans weren't allowed in. Do you think they should be to help build up a basket of evidence?
You mean should we "follow the data" or work on guesswork and assumptions?
Splott-light...
21-12-21, 21:17
Has there been an announcement on hospitality in Wales next wee?
..takes the pi55
Michael Morris
21-12-21, 22:27
..takes the pi55
Next announcement is on Wednesday afternoon. I hope our itchy fingered 'leaders' make a more sensible judgement and allow life to carry on with common sense and not knee jerk closures.
This articles from the 'i' is quite positive
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/new-restrictions-england-avoided-hospital-admissions-london-do-not-soar-this-week-1364554
New restrictions in England could be avoided if hospital admissions in London do not soar this week
There are signs that Omicron cases in the capital and across the UK could be plateauing – but remain at a high level
Fresh restrictions in England after Christmas could be avoided if hospital admissions in London stay below 400 a day by the end of this week, i understands.
Ministers and scientific advisers are watching closely the number of Covid patients admitted to hospitals in the capital, as it is the leading edge of the Omicron wave and will provide some of the first real-world data on whether the variant is more severe in the UK.
The question of severity is the missing piece of the Omicron jigsaw, and Boris Johnson has been unable to make a decision about further restrictions in England without it.
The latest figure for London admissions, from last Sunday 19 December is 245, and while the daily figure is rising, it has not increased as rapidly as Covid cases in London in the past two weeks.
While the figure of 400 is not a hard and fast threshold, it will provide a good guide of whether the huge scale of Omicron cases, above 80,000 in England for the past week, will translate into hospital admissions and put severe pressure on the NHS throughout January.
If London admissions remain below 400, it could mean no legally enforced restrictions are needed after Christmas, although there could be tougher guidance announced by the Prime Minister on 27 December.
Hospital admissions in London are not the only metric being used to assess the severity of Omicron, but is a key measure.
Separately, the UK Health Security Agency will produce early data on severity, analysing vaccination status and age of people admitted to hospital with the Omicron variant, which is also expected before Christmas Eve.
However the situation is still fluid, and ministers stress that all options remain in reserve if hospitals come under serious pressure over the New Year.
New figures published by the government’s coronavirus dashboard shows how London continues to be the epicentre of the Omicron wave.
In the seven-day period up to 16 December, there were 131,061 cases in the capital, with 1455.8 cases per 100,000 people.
But some boroughs are continuing to show the highest case rates of the pandemic for younger age groups, with one in 16 people aged 25 to 29 testing positive in the week to 16 December, or 6393.5 cases per 100,000.
While hospital admissions lag cases by two to three weeks, cases in the capital started to rise rapidly at the start of December, meaning that uptick would be felt in covid wards by now.
There are currently 1,904 people with covid in London hospitals, compared to 3,367 this time a year ago.
Latest figures for the UK – including in London, which in the past week has seen the highest case rates of anywhere in the UK since the pandemic began – show signs that the Omicron wave could be plateauing.
Analysis by the UK Health Security Agency showed that, following a rapid rise in the past fortnight, the increase in cases and suspected cases of Omicron is slowing in the capital.
And across the UK daily reported cases were around 90,000 for the sixth day running – suggesting that, while infections are at a new higher level, they are not rising beyond that.
Taunton Blue Genie
22-12-21, 11:48
Fresh restrictions in England after Christmas could be avoided if hospital admissions in London stay below 400 a day by the end of this week, i understands.
Ali G is in da house.
the other bob wilson
23-12-21, 06:59
Glad to see Drakeford has at least seen sense as far as junior and lower level sport is concerned.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/live-drakeford-announcement-sports-ban-22510903
Next announcement is on Wednesday afternoon. I hope our itchy fingered 'leaders' make a more sensible judgement and allow life to carry on with common sense and not knee jerk closures.
This articles from the 'i' is quite positive
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/new-restrictions-england-avoided-hospital-admissions-london-do-not-soar-this-week-1364554
New restrictions in England could be avoided if hospital admissions in London do not soar this week
There are signs that Omicron cases in the capital and across the UK could be plateauing – but remain at a high level
Fresh restrictions in England after Christmas could be avoided if hospital admissions in London stay below 400 a day by the end of this week, i understands.
Ministers and scientific advisers are watching closely the number of Covid patients admitted to hospitals in the capital, as it is the leading edge of the Omicron wave and will provide some of the first real-world data on whether the variant is more severe in the UK.
The question of severity is the missing piece of the Omicron jigsaw, and Boris Johnson has been unable to make a decision about further restrictions in England without it.
The latest figure for London admissions, from last Sunday 19 December is 245, and while the daily figure is rising, it has not increased as rapidly as Covid cases in London in the past two weeks.
While the figure of 400 is not a hard and fast threshold, it will provide a good guide of whether the huge scale of Omicron cases, above 80,000 in England for the past week, will translate into hospital admissions and put severe pressure on the NHS throughout January.
If London admissions remain below 400, it could mean no legally enforced restrictions are needed after Christmas, although there could be tougher guidance announced by the Prime Minister on 27 December.
Hospital admissions in London are not the only metric being used to assess the severity of Omicron, but is a key measure.
Separately, the UK Health Security Agency will produce early data on severity, analysing vaccination status and age of people admitted to hospital with the Omicron variant, which is also expected before Christmas Eve.
However the situation is still fluid, and ministers stress that all options remain in reserve if hospitals come under serious pressure over the New Year.
New figures published by the government’s coronavirus dashboard shows how London continues to be the epicentre of the Omicron wave.
In the seven-day period up to 16 December, there were 131,061 cases in the capital, with 1455.8 cases per 100,000 people.
But some boroughs are continuing to show the highest case rates of the pandemic for younger age groups, with one in 16 people aged 25 to 29 testing positive in the week to 16 December, or 6393.5 cases per 100,000.
While hospital admissions lag cases by two to three weeks, cases in the capital started to rise rapidly at the start of December, meaning that uptick would be felt in covid wards by now.
There are currently 1,904 people with covid in London hospitals, compared to 3,367 this time a year ago.
Latest figures for the UK – including in London, which in the past week has seen the highest case rates of anywhere in the UK since the pandemic began – show signs that the Omicron wave could be plateauing.
Analysis by the UK Health Security Agency showed that, following a rapid rise in the past fortnight, the increase in cases and suspected cases of Omicron is slowing in the capital.
And across the UK daily reported cases were around 90,000 for the sixth day running – suggesting that, while infections are at a new higher level, they are not rising beyond that.
All of this information, together with the Imperial College early analysis of the Omicron variant released yesterday, make Drakefords decision on closing main sporting events on Monday look even more premature and stupid.
Has there been an announcement on hospitality in Wales next wee? I must have missed that. I thought there was a meeting today and an announcement to follow.
As for evidence of outdoor events adding to the spread just look at what scientists thought about Cheltenham last year and Liverpools Champions league game. There isn't that much evidence subsequently as fans weren't allowed in. Do you think they should be to help build up a basket of evidence?
From 26 Dec all pubs will be back to social distancing, rule of 6, masks whilst standing (You apparently cannot get covid sitting down) table service only. Publicans have already been warned off for it. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to change these decisions if the huge spike in cases hospitalisations and deaths doesn't materialise, that would be admitting he was wrong, and he is incapable of being wrong.
If you're expecting the stewards on minimum wage to start chucking out groups of pissed up maskless Cardiff City fans then you're off your head
What is the point of having a ground regulation, with a penalty of ejection from the ground for non compliance, if it isn't going to be enforced. If that was the way to get games back on again, then of course it can be done. The are security companies available with the type of staff who would be more than happy to deal with it. A better question might be why are the maskless City fans not complying in the first place. Think they are above the rules and don’t give a toss perhaps ?
From 26 Dec all pubs will be back to social distancing, rule of 6, masks whilst standing (You apparently cannot get covid sitting down) table service only. Publicans have already been warned off for it. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to change these decisions if the huge spike in cases hospitalisations and deaths doesn't materialise, that would be admitting he was wrong, and he is incapable of being wrong.
Why does it have to be about whether he was right or wrong? If your huge spike doesn't materialise isn't that a good thing?
Has there been an announcement on hospitality in Wales next wee? I must have missed that. I thought there was a meeting today and an announcement to follow.
As for evidence of outdoor events adding to the spread just look at what scientists thought about Cheltenham last year and Liverpools Champions league game. There isn't that much evidence subsequently as fans weren't allowed in. Do you think they should be to help build up a basket of evidence?
At Cheltenham racing and Liverpools Champions League game nobody was vaccinated, nobody was wearing masks, there was no segregation and little if anything was known about the virus and how it spread. All subsequent evidence, as Drakeford admitted yesterday, is that the vast majority of virus spread is indoors and amongst families/friends and outdoor spread is greatly reduced. But then, you knew all that already didnt you.
lisvaneblue
23-12-21, 08:50
All of this information, together with the Imperial College early analysis of the Omicron variant released yesterday, make Drakefords decision on closing main sporting events on Monday look even more premature and stupid.
Since the Brexit referendum I'm convinced that Drakeford believes he heads a 'benevolent autocracy' rather than a ' democracy'. At that time the population of Wales voted to leave by a reasonable majority Did he support our decision.?..no. He told us we were wrong.
I'm seeing that same autocratic attitude again with Covid rules and regulations. He says the Senedd follows the science, and in Wales there is a technical advisory group that gives such advice. Most of their findings are openly published but nothing has been since 10th December.
So a lot of decisions by him having a profound influence on our lives and the backup evidence, if there is any, is being kept from us.
Quite concerning.
Why does it have to be about whether he was right or wrong? If your huge spike doesn't materialise isn't that a good thing?
The point is that there is no evidence to suggest it will happen, so he appears to be restricting peoples freedoms and companies incomes on his opinion. Everything at the moment is suggesting that Omicron is milder, that less people are being hospitalised and less people are dying.
Another point that the people shouting for more restrictions don't mention is the difference between the number of people who have to go into hospital because of covid (Omicron) and the number of people who go in for other reasons and are then found to have it. Those people would perhaps have recovered without any need for hospitalisation but because they are in for something else they are used to inflate the apparent hospitalisation numbers caused by the virus. All very scientific.
Next announcement is on Wednesday afternoon. I hope our itchy fingered 'leaders' make a more sensible judgement and allow life to carry on with common sense and not knee jerk closures.
This articles from the 'i' is quite positive
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/new-restrictions-england-avoided-hospital-admissions-london-do-not-soar-this-week-1364554
New restrictions in England could be avoided if hospital admissions in London do not soar this week
There are signs that Omicron cases in the capital and across the UK could be plateauing – but remain at a high level
Fresh restrictions in England after Christmas could be avoided if hospital admissions in London stay below 400 a day by the end of this week, i understands.
Ministers and scientific advisers are watching closely the number of Covid patients admitted to hospitals in the capital, as it is the leading edge of the Omicron wave and will provide some of the first real-world data on whether the variant is more severe in the UK.
The question of severity is the missing piece of the Omicron jigsaw, and Boris Johnson has been unable to make a decision about further restrictions in England without it.
The latest figure for London admissions, from last Sunday 19 December is 245, and while the daily figure is rising, it has not increased as rapidly as Covid cases in London in the past two weeks.
While the figure of 400 is not a hard and fast threshold, it will provide a good guide of whether the huge scale of Omicron cases, above 80,000 in England for the past week, will translate into hospital admissions and put severe pressure on the NHS throughout January.
If London admissions remain below 400, it could mean no legally enforced restrictions are needed after Christmas, although there could be tougher guidance announced by the Prime Minister on 27 December.
Hospital admissions in London are not the only metric being used to assess the severity of Omicron, but is a key measure.
Separately, the UK Health Security Agency will produce early data on severity, analysing vaccination status and age of people admitted to hospital with the Omicron variant, which is also expected before Christmas Eve.
However the situation is still fluid, and ministers stress that all options remain in reserve if hospitals come under serious pressure over the New Year.
New figures published by the government’s coronavirus dashboard shows how London continues to be the epicentre of the Omicron wave.
In the seven-day period up to 16 December, there were 131,061 cases in the capital, with 1455.8 cases per 100,000 people.
But some boroughs are continuing to show the highest case rates of the pandemic for younger age groups, with one in 16 people aged 25 to 29 testing positive in the week to 16 December, or 6393.5 cases per 100,000.
While hospital admissions lag cases by two to three weeks, cases in the capital started to rise rapidly at the start of December, meaning that uptick would be felt in covid wards by now.
There are currently 1,904 people with covid in London hospitals, compared to 3,367 this time a year ago.
Latest figures for the UK – including in London, which in the past week has seen the highest case rates of anywhere in the UK since the pandemic began – show signs that the Omicron wave could be plateauing.
Analysis by the UK Health Security Agency showed that, following a rapid rise in the past fortnight, the increase in cases and suspected cases of Omicron is slowing in the capital.
And across the UK daily reported cases were around 90,000 for the sixth day running – suggesting that, while infections are at a new higher level, they are not rising beyond that.
SA experts have been telling us most of that since Omicron arrived, yet we have still descended into hysteria ( mainly in the press )
the doubling every 2.5 days appears to not be happening, last week it hit 90k new cases, we should be on 360k new cases now ( and should have been over 1/2mill on Christmas Day ), yesterday it hit 100k
What is the point of having a ground regulation, with a penalty of ejection from the ground for non compliance, if it isn't going to be enforced. If that was the way to get games back on again, then of course it can be done. The are security companies available with the type of staff who would be more than happy to deal with it. A better question might be why are the maskless City fans not complying in the first place. Think they are above the rules and don’t give a toss perhaps ?
Above the rules and dont give a toss perhaps.?
Now where does that ring a bell.?
The point is that there is no evidence to suggest it will happen, so he appears to be restricting peoples freedoms and companies incomes on his opinion. Everything at the moment is suggesting that Omicron is milder, that less people are being hospitalised and less people are dying.
Another point that the people shouting for more restrictions don't mention is the difference between the number of people who have to go into hospital because of covid (Omicron) and the number of people who go in for other reasons and are then found to have it. Those people would perhaps have recovered without any need for hospitalisation but because they are in for something else they are used to inflate the apparent hospitalisation numbers caused by the virus. All very scientific.
I thought restrictions were brought in because of things that could happen, based on modelling, not because they definately will. Remember it's not just about the numbers going into hospital, it's also about having the staff to treat them.
Why does it have to be about whether he was right or wrong? If your huge spike doesn't materialise isn't that a good thing?
Sorry to bang on but.... with your point about if the spike doesn't materialise it can only be a good thing, something you may consider is that if/when these rules are imposed, if the spike doesn't materialise they Doom and Gloomers will try to say that it only didn't materialise because of the restrictions, whether that is in fact right or wrong, and then use that as an excuse to impose more restrictions and seek to impact on peoples freedoms in the future.
Some folk actually like being controlled and told what to do, it makes their lives easier.
Sorry to bang on but.... with your point about if the spike doesn't materialise it can only be a good thing, something you may consider is that if/when these rules are imposed, if the spike doesn't materialise they Doom and Gloomers will try to say that it only didn't materialise because of the restrictions, whether that is in fact right or wrong, and then use that as an excuse to impose more restrictions and seek to impact on peoples freedoms in the future.
Some folk actually like being controlled and told what to do, it makes their lives easier.
If the spike in hospitalisation doesn't materialise then it will be a combination of several factors, one of which will be the restrictions. Others being, for example, more data becoming available about Omicron being fed into the models, better treatments (including anti-virals for the most vulnerable) and more people receiving the booster vaccine(remember it doesn't start to take effect about 2 weeks after administration).
LeningradCowboy
23-12-21, 09:38
If the spike in hospitalisation doesn't materialise then it will be a combination of several factors, one of which will be the restrictions. Others being, for example, more data becoming available about Omicron being fed into the models, better treatments (including anti-virals for the most vulnerable) and more people receiving the booster vaccine(remember it doesn't start to take effect about 2 weeks after administration).
What happens if the spike in infections occurs before the restrictions are introduced?
Interesting but a bit technical read - The Imperial College study - confirming to me that Drakeford and his Government has ‘jumped the gun’ and got this wrong.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-50-severity-omicron/
If the spike in hospitalisation doesn't materialise then it will be a combination of several factors, one of which will be the restrictions. Others being, for example, more data becoming available about Omicron being fed into the models, better treatments (including anti-virals for the most vulnerable) and more people receiving the booster vaccine(remember it doesn't start to take effect about 2 weeks after administration).
Studies have shown that the booster dose is effective about 7 days after it is given.
What happens if the spike in infections occurs before the restrictions are introduced?
Is it even possible to know if that's happened before December 26th?
Point taken in another response as to when the booster starts to work 👍
LeningradCowboy
23-12-21, 10:52
Is it even possible to know if that's happened before December 26th?
Point taken in another response as to when the booster starts to work 👍
Probably not at this point since the spike in cases would happen a few days after the spike in infections.
However, if we find out later that the restrictions were introduced after the spike in infections and there isn't a subsequent spike in hospitalisations, I don't really see how you could attribute that to the restrictions.
I'm guessing that the spike in infections will occur on Christmas Day.
If the spike in hospitalisation doesn't materialise then it will be a combination of several factors, one of which will be the restrictions. Others being, for example, more data becoming available about Omicron being fed into the models, better treatments (including anti-virals for the most vulnerable) and more people receiving the booster vaccine(remember it doesn't start to take effect about 2 weeks after administration).
If the spike doesn't materialise it MAY be a combination, but maybe it isn't going to materialise anyway (Spike in hospitalisations and deaths that is)
More data becoming available will not be a factor in the spike not occurring, data and modelling doesn't make it happen. All new data will do is demonstrate that the original doom mongering was right or wrong, not affect the real world.
The booster vaccine is effective after 7 days apparently, but more important is that the T cell response to the virus holds up very well in the body and fights the virus very well. But this part of the vaccines and peoples immune systems was not included in the Imperial College modelling, which indicates the modelling is flawed anyway. (And it is other scientists saying that, not me :xmashehe:)
LeningradCowboy
23-12-21, 13:00
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/59747123
Welsh Athletics concerns as Parkrun cancels events in Wales
Harry Paget Flashman
23-12-21, 13:03
Went for a few drinks in London last Thursday. Sat outside around a few tables.
6 of the 8 now all got it. Me and one other waiting for it to kick in just as the dish washer needs loading on the 25th
chrisp_1927
23-12-21, 13:21
I thought restrictions were brought in because of things that could happen, based on modelling, not because they definately will. Remember it's not just about the numbers going into hospital, it's also about having the staff to treat them.
Best thing we could do is get rid of the f@cking models, and preferably get rid of the modellers responsible for them aswell.
I'd much rather we took advice from biologists and virologists, rather than these charlatans like ferguson
Taunton Blue Genie
23-12-21, 13:23
Best thing we could do is get rid of the f@cking models, and preferably get rid of the modellers responsible for them aswell.
I'd much rather we took advice from biologists and virologists, rather than these charlatans like ferguson
Aren't biologists and virologists involved in the modelling?
Jimmy the Jock
23-12-21, 13:24
If Mick was still manager we could have slipped under the radar .
The football wasnt sport , it was torture.
chrisp_1927
23-12-21, 13:58
Aren't biologists and virologists involved in the modelling?
Judging by some of the wild guesses that are thrown into the data I don't think they have as big a role as they should. More a jerkfest for a bunch of maths/physics nutty professors.
A better question might be why are the maskless City fans not complying in the first place. Think they are above the rules and don’t give a toss perhaps ?
This + throw in some jadedness, some "well if no one else is I won't" and (from now on) some backlash from the Number 10 parties
Since the Brexit referendum I'm convinced that Drakeford believes he heads a 'benevolent autocracy' rather than a ' democracy'. At that time the population of Wales voted to leave by a reasonable majority Did he support our decision.?..no. He told us we were wrong.
I'm seeing that same autocratic attitude again with Covid rules and regulations. He says the Senedd follows the science, and in Wales there is a technical advisory group that gives such advice. Most of their findings are openly published but nothing has been since 10th December.
So a lot of decisions by him having a profound influence on our lives and the backup evidence, if there is any, is being kept from us.
Quite concerning.
First para: Do you think a number that just about fits into the Millennium Stadium out of a whole country is a reasonable majority?
He seems to be right on this one. What are the benefits?
Second para: As I have previously said, with forecasts as they are (and sport/theatres and pubs closing on their on accord though illness) isn’t it better to be cautious than cross your fingers. This is public health, not a bet on a horse.
nomad blue
23-12-21, 17:04
Everything at the moment is suggesting that Omicron is milder, that less people are being hospitalised and less people are dying.
Isn't the highlighted word above the main one, and means that until it is proven to be more than suggested, that the additional measures are the right thing to do? Plus the more prevelant it is, the more chance of it getting to people who are vulnerable.
And what about the long term effects of people who get Covid? Millions more people getting it could yet again put a massive strain on the NHS further down the line.
Doing nothing and just letting the new variant rip through the country means we end up with god knows how many NHS staff (as well as all the other service people) having to isolate, meaning even more reduction in services and even more deaths.
I couldn't care less about minor inconveniences like not being able to chat at the bar, having to order a beer from my table, or not being able to watch the game at the stadium, considering the severe stress the NHS staff have been, and are being put under, literally risking their lives, having no rest/time off, not seeing their families etc.
This + throw in some jadedness, some "well if no one else is I won't" and (from now on) some backlash from the Number 10 parties
Up until a few weeks ago, no one actually knew that the so called parties had even taken place, whilst people have been ignoring the ground regulations and guidance since stadiums reopened last May.
Isn't the highlighted word above the main one, and means that until it is proven to be more than suggested, that the additional measures are the right thing to do? Plus the more prevelant it is, the more chance of it getting to people who are vulnerable.
And what about the long term effects of people who get Covid? Millions more people getting it could yet again put a massive strain on the NHS further down the line.
Doing nothing and just letting the new variant rip through the country means we end up with god knows how many NHS staff (as well as all the other service people) having to isolate, meaning even more reduction in services and even more deaths.
I couldn't care less about minor inconveniences like not being able to chat at the bar, having to order a beer from my table, or not being able to watch the game at the stadium, considering the severe stress the NHS staff have been, and are being put under, literally risking their lives, having no rest/time off, not seeing their families etc.
Its a question of balance and dealing with things proportionately and in the correct order, something which Drakeford and his cronies have sadly failed at in this instance.
Isn't the highlighted word above the main one, and means that until it is proven to be more than suggested, that the additional measures are the right thing to do? Plus the more prevelant it is, the more chance of it getting to people who are vulnerable.
And what about the long term effects of people who get Covid? Millions more people getting it could yet again put a massive strain on the NHS further down the line.
Doing nothing and just letting the new variant rip through the country means we end up with god knows how many NHS staff (as well as all the other service people) having to isolate, meaning even more reduction in services and even more deaths.
I couldn't care less about minor inconveniences like not being able to chat at the bar, having to order a beer from my table, or not being able to watch the game at the stadium, considering the severe stress the NHS staff have been, and are being put under, literally risking their lives, having no rest/time off, not seeing their families etc.
Those ‘minor inconveniences’ are what has kept many people going over the last two years and enabled them to get out of the house at last and forget their worries, at a time when mental stress and illness has risen dramatically.
Went for a few drinks in London last Thursday. Sat outside around a few tables.
6 of the 8 now all got it. Me and one other waiting for it to kick in just as the dish washer needs loading on the 25th
That's a sobering message, hopefully it might make some people realize caution should be the byword here. I hope you escape the bug but if you're unlucky enough to catch it I hope it's very mild in its effects.
Isn't the highlighted word above the main one, and means that until it is proven to be more than suggested, that the additional measures are the right thing to do? Plus the more prevelant it is, the more chance of it getting to people who are vulnerable.
And what about the long term effects of people who get Covid? Millions more people getting it could yet again put a massive strain on the NHS further down the line.
Doing nothing and just letting the new variant rip through the country means we end up with god knows how many NHS staff (as well as all the other service people) having to isolate, meaning even more reduction in services and even more deaths.
I couldn't care less about minor inconveniences like not being able to chat at the bar, having to order a beer from my table, or not being able to watch the game at the stadium, considering the severe stress the NHS staff have been, and are being put under, literally risking their lives, having no rest/time off, not seeing their families etc.
Well said!
Isn't the highlighted word above the main one, and means that until it is proven to be more than suggested, that the additional measures are the right thing to do? Plus the more prevelant it is, the more chance of it getting to people who are vulnerable.
And what about the long term effects of people who get Covid? Millions more people getting it could yet again put a massive strain on the NHS further down the line.
Doing nothing and just letting the new variant rip through the country means we end up with god knows how many NHS staff (as well as all the other service people) having to isolate, meaning even more reduction in services and even more deaths.
I couldn't care less about minor inconveniences like not being able to chat at the bar, having to order a beer from my table, or not being able to watch the game at the stadium, considering the severe stress the NHS staff have been, and are being put under, literally risking their lives, having no rest/time off, not seeing their families etc.
Or conversely, if it isn't suggested that it is severe then don't act as if it is!!!!
I am a shielder due to having a weakened immune system and have been acting responsibly and very carefully for the last 18 months. I would not put myself in a situation where I felt it likely that I would get the virus because most likely that would be it for me. If people like me think that the way the Welsh Government is going about this is wrong, then Drakeford really has got problems.
Citizen's Nephew
23-12-21, 18:03
I am a shielder due to having a weakened immune system and have been acting responsibly and very carefully for the last 18 months. I would not put myself in a situation where I felt it likely that I would get the virus because most likely that would be it for me. If people like me think that the way the Welsh Government is going about this is wrong, then Drakeford really has got problems.
100% agree with you. I feel the same way.
Up until a few weeks ago, no one actually knew that the so called parties had even taken place, whilst people have been ignoring the ground regulations and guidance since stadiums reopened last May.
Ah sorry I should have put "from now on" in brackets before mentioning the parties, will be clearer next time
lisvaneblue
23-12-21, 18:50
First para: Do you think a number that just about fits into the Millennium Stadium out of a whole country is a reasonable majority?
He seems to be right on this one. What are the benefits?
Second para: As I have previously said, with forecasts as they are (and sport/theatres and pubs closing on their on accord though illness) isn’t it better to be cautious than cross your fingers. This is public health, not a bet on a horse.
to answer the first para...there was a very very small majority that voted for Wales to have devolved government, but that's democracy. Same with the democratic Brexit vote in Wales.
Second Para...I'm not talking about crossing fingers. There are already plenty of measures already in place designed to protect us. Adding more isn't necessarily going make things better. In the past we have been the most cautious of the home nations yet we have not done any better, in fact, on many measures we have done worse.
Also some of the latest restrictions are just daft..Written into law that a a worker can be fined £60 for going to work when they could work from home, and the employer fined £1,000. What about the many, and there are many, who live in Wales but work in England, plus of course the English that travel to Wales for work. Drakeford says the rules still apply, but of course they don't in England.
Even the TUC complained to Drakeford about this naive law.
Then the rule of six...No scientific evidence for it. It was something Michael Gove made up a year or so ago. But what an impact on the hospitality sector.
Same with football attendance ...cant watch CCFC at home, but can attend away games...
All poorly thought through impositions on our lives
Citizen's Nephew
23-12-21, 19:08
to answer the first para...there was a very very small majority that voted for Wales to have devolved government, but that's democracy. Same with the democratic Brexit vote in Wales.
Second Para...I'm not talking about crossing fingers. There are already plenty of measures already in place designed to protect us. Adding more isn't necessarily going make things better. In the past we have been the most cautious of the home nations yet we have not done any better, in fact, on many measures we have done worse.
Also some of the latest restrictions are just daft..Written into law that a a worker can be fined £60 for going to work when they could work from home, and the employer fined £1,000. What about the many, and there are many, who live in Wales but work in England, plus of course the English that travel to Wales for work. Drakeford says the rules still apply, but of course they don't in England.
Even the TUC complained to Drakeford about this naive law.
Then the rule of six...No scientific evidence for it. It was something Michael Gove made up a year or so ago. But what an impact on the hospitality sector.
Same with football attendance ...cant watch CCFC at home, but can attend away games...
All poorly thought through impositions on our lives
Good post. Can't argue with any of that (not that I want to!).
LeningradCowboy
24-12-21, 12:08
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-12-24/christmas-display-at-cardiffs-bute-park-forced-to-close-on-boxing-day
Wales’ largest ever Christmas lights trail is to close early due to covid restrictions.
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-12-24/christmas-display-at-cardiffs-bute-park-forced-to-close-on-boxing-day
Wales’ largest ever Christmas lights trail is to close early due to covid restrictions.
Not really a surprise, is it?
LeningradCowboy
24-12-21, 13:07
https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245037
Drop the limit on outdoor gatherings and allow community events to continue
Eric the Half a Bee
24-12-21, 13:52
Since the Brexit referendum I'm convinced that Drakeford believes he heads a 'benevolent autocracy' rather than a ' democracy'. At that time the population of Wales voted to leave by a reasonable majority Did he support our decision.?..no. He told us we were wrong.
I'm seeing that same autocratic attitude again with Covid rules and regulations. He says the Senedd follows the science, and in Wales there is a technical advisory group that gives such advice. Most of their findings are openly published but nothing has been since 10th December.
So a lot of decisions by him having a profound influence on our lives and the backup evidence, if there is any, is being kept from us.
Quite concerning.
With regard Brexit, I haven't yet seen any evidence to suggest the electorate got it right.
Is Drakeford doing anything differently to the majority of European countries who are in a similar situation to us? It's a genuine question. It would be interesting to make a comparison if that was at all possible.
life on mars
24-12-21, 16:27
You read about long term harm due to a weaker variant isn't that also the risk to any respitorty diseases, we don't lockdown for them we cope and get them treated ???
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-12-24/christmas-display-at-cardiffs-bute-park-forced-to-close-on-boxing-day
Wales’ largest ever Christmas lights trail is to close early due to covid restrictions.
That’s nice of mr Drakeford, my kids really enjoyed it and I had a flashback to the raves of 1992…..
lisvaneblue
24-12-21, 19:58
With regard Brexit, I haven't yet seen any evidence to suggest the electorate got it right.
The electorate got it right in their eyes not yours.
lisvaneblue
24-12-21, 20:07
You read about long term harm due to a weaker variant isn't that also the risk to any respitorty diseases, we don't lockdown for them we cope and get them treated ???
The head of Health Analysis at the UK Office of National Statistics has accused Drakeford of lying to the Welsh people over the severity of the omicron variant. Jamie Jenkins, the head, who lives in Wales, reckons Drakeford is taking us for fools when he says that 'if you have never had coronavirus and you get omicron the evidence is that is probably as severe as Delta'
Drakeford has used this as the reason to introduce new draconian rules in Wales but the evidence does not support what he says.
Lord help us whilst we have this man in charge
The head of Health Analysis at the UK Office of National Statistics has accused Drakeford of lying to the Welsh people over the severity of the omicron variant. Jamie Jenkins, the head, who lives in Wales, reckons Drakeford is taking us for fools when he says that 'if you have never had coronavirus and you get omicron the evidence is that is probably as severe as Delta'
Drakeford has used this as the reason to introduce new draconian rules in Wales but the evidence does not support what he says.
Lord help us whilst we have this man in charge
Doing it just to be different from Westminster…..so blimmim obvious
Eric the Half a Bee
24-12-21, 23:48
Doing it just to be different from Westminster…..so blimmim obvious
Surely it's just a case of a different government acting differently on the advice it gets?
The head of Health Analysis at the UK Office of National Statistics has accused Drakeford of lying to the Welsh people over the severity of the omicron variant. Jamie Jenkins, the head, who lives in Wales, reckons Drakeford is taking us for fools when he says that 'if you have never had coronavirus and you get omicron the evidence is that is probably as severe as Delta'
Drakeford has used this as the reason to introduce new draconian rules in Wales but the evidence does not support what he says.
Lord help us whilst we have this man in charge
This has just reinforced my opinion that the poorly thought out measures just introduced by Drakeford have absolutely nothing to do with Covid itself and the severity of the new variant and are just designed partly to try to force people to get the booster quickly but mainly to protect the NHS which is struggling to deal with the existing admissions for usual winter diseases and the backlog of other cases caused by the earlier more serious Covid variants. Whilst the latter objective obviously has merit in respect of taking pressure off NHS staff, this is a slippery slope as every year the NHS faces exactly the same pressures, pandemic or not. Cue Mr Drakeford every December trying to introduce similar measures to restrict population movement and lifestyles, just because the NHS is busy.
UNDERHILL1927
25-12-21, 07:48
Surely it's just a case of a different government acting differently on the advice it gets?
Drakeford made the decision to go further than Westminster and earlier, right at the beginning of the pandemic. He sadly seems too stubborn to go back on this decision and has made a rod for his own back now. He always has to go one further than our cousins over the border.
At the beginning of the pandemic I saw some benefit of this, now he's just too stubborn to adapt and change his stance.
lisvaneblue
25-12-21, 08:20
Surely it's just a case of a different government acting differently on the advice it gets?
Maybe so, but his decisions have a big impact on peoples' lives and on businesses in Wales. He seems to do things on a whim just to be different. He talks about protecting the NHS when the NHS exists to protect us.
I looked the data on the number of Covid patients in hospital in Wales over recent months. 18th December is the latest shown on the PHE website so I list the numbers for the 18th of each month from August:
Aug 162, Sept 506, Oct 590, Nov 547, Dec 345. Why the new measures?
And now we have the final nail in Drakefords metaphorical ‘coffin’. Scientists are now advising the Premier League NOT to close stadiums due to the emerging data on Omicron and the lack of evidence that Covid is spread easily in outdoor settings. How is Drakeford going to get out of this without looking stupid ?
Drakeford needs to do a upturn ASAP. If he dies then the damage will be minimal.
A Quiet Monkfish
26-12-21, 10:09
And now we have the final nail in Drakefords metaphorical ‘coffin’. Scientists are now advising the Premier League NOT to close stadiums due to the emerging data on Omicron and the lack of evidence that Covid is spread easily in outdoor settings. How is Drakeford going to get out of this without looking stupid ?
I can imagine a large percentage of Welsh folk will take the opposite view - look at those buffoons in England while Mark Drakeford is keeping us safe in Wales. Sadly, along with matters non-Covid as well, it is all bout being 'not England'. The less opportunities given to the Welsh Assembly to act differrently, the stronger the Toytown Govt. becomes.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 10:24
The head of Health Analysis at the UK Office of National Statistics has accused Drakeford of lying to the Welsh people over the severity of the omicron variant. Jamie Jenkins, the head, who lives in Wales, reckons Drakeford is taking us for fools when he says that 'if you have never had coronavirus and you get omicron the evidence is that is probably as severe as Delta'
Drakeford has used this as the reason to introduce new draconian rules in Wales but the evidence does not support what he says.
Lord help us whilst we have this man in charge
Except Drakeford hasn’t ‘used this as the reason’. There were many factors that fed into the decision. Obviously.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 10:27
Doing it just to be different from Westminster…..so blimmim obvious
Does every other govt across the UK and Europe taking a different approach to the UK govt do so just to be different?
superflyblues
26-12-21, 10:31
And now we have the final nail in Drakefords metaphorical ‘coffin’. Scientists are now advising the Premier League NOT to close stadiums due to the emerging data on Omicron and the lack of evidence that Covid is spread easily in outdoor settings. How is Drakeford going to get out of this without looking stupid ?
But it’s not just about outdoor settings. It’s the travel, the concourse, the pub afterwards… I’m not saying the Welsh Govt got it right with this decision, but it’s not as simple as does it spread easily outside.
A Quiet Monkfish
26-12-21, 10:32
I can imagine a large percentage of Welsh folk will take the opposite view - look at those buffoons in England while Mark Drakeford is keeping us safe in Wales. Sadly, along with matters non-Covid as well, it is all bout being 'not England'. The more opportunities given to the Welsh Assembly to act differrently, the stronger the Toytown Govt. becomes.
edit !
superflyblues
26-12-21, 10:41
This has just reinforced my opinion that the poorly thought out measures just introduced by Drakeford have absolutely nothing to do with Covid itself and the severity of the new variant and are just designed partly to try to force people to get the booster quickly but mainly to protect the NHS which is struggling to deal with the existing admissions for usual winter diseases and the backlog of other cases caused by the earlier more serious Covid variants. Whilst the latter objective obviously has merit in respect of taking pressure off NHS staff, this is a slippery slope as every year the NHS faces exactly the same pressures, pandemic or not. Cue Mr Drakeford every December trying to introduce similar measures to restrict population movement and lifestyles, just because the NHS is busy.
Earlier variants were not necessarily ‘more serious’, this one has greater escape and is more transmissible even if it is less likely to cause serious illness. The potential pressures faced by the NHS in the month ahead are not ‘usual winter pressures’.
You think the current measures would be used by the current Welsh Government outside a pandemic scenario because of ‘usual winter pressures’? Really?
superflyblues
26-12-21, 10:47
edit !
Except it has nothing to do with being ‘not England’. Why the focus on such a suggestion? It’s about a democratically elected Welsh govt trying to do the right thing for Wales. Agree or disagree with their calls, but better to discuss the issues and policies instead of the ‘not England’ nonsense.
LeningradCowboy
26-12-21, 10:56
Except it has nothing to do with being ‘not England’. Why the focus on such a suggestion? It’s about a democratically elected Welsh govt trying to do the right thing for Wales. Agree or disagree with their calls, but better to discuss the issues and policies instead of the ‘not England’ nonsense.
So why do Welsh government ministers keep comparing their COVID-19 policies with what the UK government is doing in England?
splott parker
26-12-21, 10:57
But it’s not just about outdoor settings. It’s the travel, the concourse, the pub afterwards… I’m not saying the Welsh Govt got it right with this decision, but it’s not as simple as does it spread easily outside.
This is the way I interpreted it. To get to most outdoor events that attract many people it’s inevitable that at one stage of your journey to & from and even at the venue prior to reaching the ‘outdoor’ section you’re going to be mass mixing indoors. You don’t close your front door and then suddenly appear outside at the event, many would, perhaps, have the opinion that it’s a quite well thought out strategy.
Saying that, I still wish the game was on today, although wasn’t it postponed before the Senedd announcement due to players testing positive?
This is the way I interpreted it. To get to most outdoor events that attract many people it’s inevitable that at one stage of your journey to & from and even at the venue prior to reaching the ‘outdoor’ section you’re going to be mass mixing indoors. You don’t close your front door and then suddenly appear outside at the event, many would, perhaps, have the opinion that it’s a quite well thought out strategy.
Saying that, I still wish the game was on today, although wasn’t it postponed before the Senedd announcement due to players testing positive?
it was postponed the day before i believe, nobody told radio wales though:xmasthumbup:
I can imagine a large percentage of Welsh folk will take the opposite view - look at those buffoons in England while Mark Drakeford is keeping us safe in Wales. Sadly, along with matters non-Covid as well, it is all bout being 'not England'. The less opportunities given to the Welsh Assembly to act differrently, the stronger the Toytown Govt. becomes.
it really does look like its " we are different / independant to Westminster " of course he knows Welsh labour are the only party in Wales and people will automatically vote for them every time
superflyblues
26-12-21, 11:20
So why do Welsh government ministers keep comparing their COVID-19 policies with what the UK government is doing in England?
They don’t. But a lot of journos ask questions about differences between Cardiff Bay and Westminster policy and they have to provide an answer. WG don’t decide what the media companies decide to use from their pressers.
The Lone Gunman
26-12-21, 11:24
It’s about a democratically elected Welsh govt trying to do the right thing for Wales.
And they're failing. Consistently.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 11:27
it really does look like its " we are different / independant to Westminster " of course he knows Welsh labour are the only party in Wales and people will automatically vote for them every time
So Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales all take a similar approach, Westminster takes a different approach, but it’s Wales trying to be different from Westminster? Why have this same argument over and over, it goes nowhere. They are all doing what they think is right and what they think they can achieve given the make up and views of their cabinet, backbenchers and wider parties. That’s how politics works.
The Westminster govt may well announce additional restrictions in the coming days, brining them closer to the other UK governments.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 11:31
And they're failing. Consistently.
Good job we have a democracy in Wales then. When Wales was failed for generation after generation from Westminster, there was bugger all the people of Wales could do about it. If Wales wants policy change now, they can vote for it.
The Lone Gunman
26-12-21, 11:34
Good job we have a democracy in Wales then.
What has democracy got to do with the consistent failure of the Welsh government to do the best thing for the Welsh public?
superflyblues
26-12-21, 11:47
What has democracy got to do with the consistent failure of the Welsh government to do the best thing for the Welsh public?
The consistent failure viewpoint is likely not shared by sufficient numbers to bring about change. The point I was making was that at least we have a mechanism now to make change happen in Wales in devolved policy areas if sufficient numbers vote for change.
The Lone Gunman
26-12-21, 11:56
The consistent failure viewpoint is likely not shared by sufficient numbers to bring about change.
That is likely. But then we're living in a country that voted for Brexit.
Germany, Finland, Spain, France, Portugal, Netherlands etc are all implementing restrictions that are either the same or stricter than we have in Wales, that's what i've read, if i'm correct and that's without checking on other European countries. Is their an over reaction from these nations and their governments as well. Obviously, most of us here are UK based, but i don't think that we can ignore the fact that other countries are going as hard or harder than Wales.
That is likely. But then we're living in a country that voted for Brexit.
Therein lies the real problem...
superflyblues
26-12-21, 12:18
Germany, Finland, Spain, France, Portugal, Netherlands etc are all implementing restrictions that are either the same or stricter than we have in Wales, that's what i've read, if i'm correct and that's without checking on other European countries. Is their an over reaction from these nations and their governments as well. Obviously, most of us here are UK based, but i don't think that we can ignore the fact that other countries are going as hard or harder than Wales.
Errrrmmmm…. ‘Covid Omicron: European nations reinstate restrictions’ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59747689
Erm…. Covid Omicron: European nations reinstate restrictions https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59747689
Maybe they're all over reacting.
Jordi Culé
26-12-21, 12:33
Maybe they're all over reacting.
Maybe the leaders of those respective countries are not being held to account by a number of MPs that do not want any restrictions implemented at all and got their leader by his tiny bollocks?
Additionally, just maybe those respective leaders are not narcissistic twaats who don't mind making tough decisions for the good of their populations instead of being more worried about looking like a Christmas Grinch?
Maybe the leaders of those respective countries are not being held to account by a number of MPs that do not want any restrictions implemented at all and got their leader by his tiny bollocks?
Additionally, just maybe those respective leaders are not narcissistic twaats who don't mind making tough decisions for the good of their populations instead of being more worried about looking like a Christmas Grinch?
Great analysis and I might add maybe some of those respective leaders care more about their people's health and welfare rather than the way they are destined to vote.
Maybe the leaders of those respective countries are not being held to account by a number of MPs that do not want any restrictions implemented at all and got their leader by his tiny bollocks?
Additionally, just maybe those respective leaders are not narcissistic twaats who don't mind making tough decisions for the good of their populations instead of being more worried about looking like a Christmas Grinch?
Yup, i agree.:xmasthumbup:
Maybe the leaders of those respective countries are not being held to account by a number of MPs that do not want any restrictions implemented at all and got their leader by his tiny bollocks?
Additionally, just maybe those respective leaders are not narcissistic twaats who don't mind making tough decisions for the good of their populations instead of being more worried about looking like a Christmas Grinch?
Is there any reason for the vitriol? 'Narcissistic twaats'(sic) 'tiny bollox'? Its comments like that that have made this board so offensive.
I have no idea who is right and who is wrong but isn't it better to see how things start to pan out before blaming someone for
something that hasn't yet happened?
The argument of those against the stricter policy in wales point to the evidence that the new variant is less deadly and less likely to hospitalise than the previous, and when asked for the figures to justify his call Drakeford either couldn't or wouldn't produce them.
As for the continental countries, they are further behind the curve than UK, have no way to control their borders and have in general far smaller a percentage of populations vaccine protected. All these things give people pause for thought and to question why certain things happen.
But don't let that get in the way of slagging off the government, you do it in almost every other thread you join. Enjoy your christmas.
Jordi Culé
26-12-21, 13:15
Is there any reason for the vitriol? 'Narcissistic twaats'(sic) 'tiny bollox'? Its comments like that that have made this board so offensive.
I have no idea who is right and who is wrong but isn't it better to see how things start to pan out before blaming someone for
something that hasn't yet happened?
The argument of those against the stricter policy in wales point to the evidence that the new variant is less deadly and less likely to hospitalise than the previous, and when asked for the figures to justify his call Drakeford either couldn't or wouldn't produce them.
As for the continental countries, they are further behind the curve than UK, have no way to control their borders and have in general far smaller a percentage of populations vaccine protected. All these things give people pause for thought and to question why certain things happen.
But don't let that get in the way of slagging off the government, you do it in almost every other thread you join. Enjoy your christmas.
Stop crying about bad language you massive fuucking wuss.
It's a message board not a monastery.
Hope you've had a good Christmas too.
Is there any reason for the vitriol? 'Narcissistic twaats'(sic) 'tiny bollox'? Its comments like that that have made this board so offensive.
I have no idea who is right and who is wrong but isn't it better to see how things start to pan out before blaming someone for
something that hasn't yet happened?
The argument of those against the stricter policy in wales point to the evidence that the new variant is less deadly and less likely to hospitalise than the previous, and when asked for the figures to justify his call Drakeford either couldn't or wouldn't produce them.
As for the continental countries, they are further behind the curve than UK, have no way to control their borders and have in general far smaller a percentage of populations vaccine protected. All these things give people pause for thought and to question why certain things happen.
But don't let that get in the way of slagging off the government, you do it in almost every other thread you join. Enjoy your christmas.
Norway has some of the strictest border controls in Europe and they've pretty much gone down the same line as Wales, or maybe even before Wales. It's a minefied, i tell ya :hehe:
Norway has some of the strictest border controls in Europe and they've pretty much gone down the same line as Wales, or maybe even before Wales. It's a minefied, i tell ya :hehe:
I agree, but the mental affect of all these restrictions and lockdowns and the affect on childrens education are just as serious but some seem to think that they are unimportant, or at least the actions they take suggest that.
There is no right or wrong way, it should be about balancing to try to arrive at the least bad results for all those things. If schools don't open again it will be a disaster that will have repercussions far beyond the spring or next year. And teachers cannot go to school because they'll ger fined given the fact the welsh government knows they can work from home.
Jordi Culé
26-12-21, 13:40
I agree, but the mental affect of all these restrictions and lockdowns and the affect on childrens education are just as serious but some seem to think that they are unimportant, or at least the actions they take suggest that.
There is no right or wrong way, it should be about balancing to try to arrive at the least bad results for all those things. If schools don't open again it will be a disaster that will have repercussions far beyond the spring or next year. And teachers cannot go to school because they'll ger fined given the fact the welsh government knows they can work from home.
"And teachers cannot go to school because they'll get fined given the fact the Welsh government knows they can work from home."
You trying to do comedy or are really that twp?
"And teachers cannot go to school because they'll get fined given the fact the Welsh government knows they can work from home."
You trying to do comedy or are really that twp?
well if they don't get fined he is breaking his own rules!!! Explain how he isn't!
superflyblues
26-12-21, 13:51
Is there any reason for the vitriol? 'Narcissistic twaats'(sic) 'tiny bollox'? Its comments like that that have made this board so offensive.
I have no idea who is right and who is wrong but isn't it better to see how things start to pan out before blaming someone for
something that hasn't yet happened?
The argument of those against the stricter policy in wales point to the evidence that the new variant is less deadly and less likely to hospitalise than the previous, and when asked for the figures to justify his call Drakeford either couldn't or wouldn't produce them.
As for the continental countries, they are further behind the curve than UK, have no way to control their borders and have in general far smaller a percentage of populations vaccine protected. All these things give people pause for thought and to question why certain things happen.
But don't let that get in the way of slagging off the government, you do it in almost every other thread you join. Enjoy your christmas.
Re your claim about Drakeford producing figures, Welsh Government publishes the Technical Advisory Cell advice and modelling every month: https://gov.wales/advice-coronavirus-technical-advisory-cell
Re the situation on the continent, being further behind the curve is not an argument not to be proactive. Anyway, France has over 100,000 cases today.
Jordi Culé
26-12-21, 13:53
well if they don't get fined he is breaking his own rules!!! Explain how he isn't!
You're doing twp then! Have another pop at reading the rules buddy.
I'll tell my wife she's not expected in next week although she's had to do some planning for the return of kids back into school or the very least hubs for key workers kids.
She'll be grateful I got this information from you.
You're doing twp then! Have another pop at reading the rules buddy.
I'll tell my wife she's not expected in next week although she's had to do some planning for the return of kids back into school or the very least hubs for key workers kids.
She'll be grateful I got this information from you.
so the rules only apply to he people who drakeford decides they do!! They worked from home before so they should again. If they can work and everyone can go to the pub/restaurant then why can't everyone work normally? It's a simple question.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 14:02
well if they don't get fined he is breaking his own rules!!! Explain how he isn't!
Seriously?
Seriously?
yes seriously.
I know everyone will say "Ah but the children must be educated" but there was no stipulation in the regulations and we know teachers can work from home because they did it before? And then there is the backlog that will increase in DVLA paperwork fecking up HGV licencing again, amongst other things, or are they exempt too? Who decides?how are the police to enforce a law which only applies to the people drakeford wants it to apply to?
Father Dougal
26-12-21, 14:14
yes seriously.
I know everyone will say "Ah but the children must be educated" but there was no stipulation in the regulations and we know teachers can work from home because they did it before? And then there is the backlog that will increase in DVLA paperwork fecking up HGV licencing again, amongst other things, or are they exempt too? Who decides?how are the police to enforce a law which only applies to the people drakeford wants it to apply to?
I don't think it's a new law I think it was in place in the earlier lockdowns. The difference then was there was a lockdown and it was to protect workers from being asked in to offices when they couldn't go into any other house or any pub or anywhere apart from an essential shop.
However from what they said last week now people could legally all work together in somebody's house and mix 30 households in 1 house- or meet in a pub or restaurant to work in groups of 6 on one table- but they can't sit alone in an office.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 14:17
yes seriously.
I know everyone will say "Ah but the children must be educated" but there was no stipulation in the regulations and we know teachers can work from home because they did it before? And then there is the backlog that will increase in DVLA paperwork fecking up HGV licencing again, amongst other things, or are they exempt too? Who decides?how are the police to enforce a law which only applies to the people drakeford wants it to apply to?
You're aware the same regulations were in place earlier in the pandemic, right? And you're aware how many fines were issued, right? And you're aware that in person schooling for some pupils has remained throughout the pandemic, right?
Re your claim about Drakeford producing figures, Welsh Government publishes the Technical Advisory Cell advice and modelling every month: https://gov.wales/advice-coronavirus-technical-advisory-cell
Re the situation on the continent, being further behind the curve is not an argument not to be proactive. Anyway, France has over 100,000 cases today.
I don't disagree that the figures are published monthly but when he announced the boxing day measure he was directly asked by a journalist for the figure on which the decision was based and he talked for 10 minutes to say the journalist wasn't going to get them suggesting to many that up to date figures might not actually exist or may not support his actions.
Yes france has over 100,000 but thy are still behind UK in the time that they have been seeing Omicron spread so they better get ready for more.
You're aware the same regulations were in place earlier in the pandemic, right? And you're aware how many fines were issued, right? And you're aware that in person schooling for some pupils has remained throughout the pandemic, right?
Logic indicates this is patently false.
Online remote learning has been occurring, still is when the need is deemed - conveniently the final week of last term before Christmas.
You're aware the same regulations were in place earlier in the pandemic, right? And you're aware how many fines were issued, right? And you're aware that in person schooling for some pupils has remained throughout the pandemic, right?
Yes I'm aware that some children still went to school because of family circumstances but schools were not open for general education.
With your comment about the number of fines issued previously are you suggesting that the police won't arrest or fine anyone, and are you suggesting that is OK? In that case we may as well just all ignore the regulations and go about our business as usual.
Also consider businesses who have to employ more staff but must maintain a reduced clientele. for them it's a double whammy, not only less income but more expense. maybe they should all ignore the new regulations as well.
Is that what your remark is suggesting? If it is not what did you mention it for. I'd love to know.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 14:27
Logic indicates this is patently false.
Online remote learning has been occurring, still is when the need is deemed - conveniently the final week of last term before Christmas.
Read my words again, you've misunderstood them.
Read my words again, you've misunderstood them.
Logic would indicate you need to be more precise in your wording.
The implication you made was that in person schooling was generally available; "children of essential workers" and "vulnerable children" were the subset you should have referred to. It's also worth pointing out that plenty of "vulnerable children" were denied in person education, in particular children with special needs. Quite a few didn't receive in person teaching, essential given their needs because they aren't as important as NHS workers.
Logic would indicate you need to be more precise in your wording.
The implication you made was that in person schooling was generally available; "children of essential workers" and "vulnerable children" were the subset you should have referred to. It's also worth pointing out that plenty of "vulnerable children" were denied in person education, in particular children with special needs. Quite a few didn't receive in person teaching, essential given their needs because they aren't as important as NHS workers.
So if teachers could work from home then there is no reason why the shouldn't now. so again I ask, does this mean schools will be closed?
So if teachers could work from home then there is no reason why the shouldn't now. so again I ask, does this mean schools will be closed?
Logic indicates that if unions believe they can push Dripford to do so, it will happen.
If it doesn't happen then all teachers who go to school should be fined and all school Governors/Head Teachers who allow them to should also be fined.
If not then the law is just what a lot of people say it is, Drakeford making up rules just to be different to England and indefensible in a court of law.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 14:59
Yes I'm aware that some children still went to school because of family circumstances but schools were not open for general education.
With your comment about the number of fines issued previously are you suggesting that the police won't arrest or fine anyone, and are you suggesting that is OK? In that case we may as well just all ignore the regulations and go about our business as usual.
Also consider businesses who have to employ more staff but must maintain a reduced clientele. for them it's a double whammy, not only less income but more expense. maybe they should all ignore the new regulations as well.
Is that what your remark is suggesting? If it is not what did you mention it for. I'd love to know.
I was implying that your initial statement about teachers not going to school because of the work from home regs was/is wrong.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 15:01
Logic would indicate you need to be more precise in your wording.
The implication you made was that in person schooling was generally available; "children of essential workers" and "vulnerable children" were the subset you should have referred to. It's also worth pointing out that plenty of "vulnerable children" were denied in person education, in particular children with special needs. Quite a few didn't receive in person teaching, essential given their needs because they aren't as important as NHS workers.
Logic would indicate you need to be more precise in your reading.
I was implying that your initial statement about teachers not going to school because of the work from home regs was/is wrong.
Logic would indicate that a literal interpretation of what Dripford has laid down would indicate that xsnaggle is correct. Remote learning has been used before, therefore teachers can work from home.
The "common sense" view is that learning should be in person where applicable - special needs provision really demands it tbh. The issue is that Dripford issues broad edicts without considering edge cases. Ban Welsh football fans from home games, allow them to go to away games in England.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 15:09
Logic would indicate that a literal interpretation of what Dripford has laid down would indicate that xsnaggle is correct. Remote learning has been used before, therefore teachers can work from home.
The "common sense" view is that learning should be in person where applicable - special needs provision really demands it tbh. The issue is that Dripford issues broad edicts without considering edge cases. Ban Welsh football fans from home games, allow them to go to away games in England.
Online shopping is a thing, therefore all shops should close type logic. Brilliant.
Online shopping is a thing, therefore all shops should close type logic. Brilliant.
Logic would indicate you've the reading capacity of a dead slug.
Your analogy is utterly false. How can a shop worker work online? Can they stock shelves virtually? Tesco online is a separate entity within the Tesco chain from the stores division, for example.
The point being made which is clearly miles above your head, is that a literal interpretation of Dripford's edicts indicate schools should close. Apart from those children who use public transport, teaching can be conducted remotely as it has been before - with some specific exceptions. As was pointed out, Dripford doesn't consider nuances and edge cases.
Logic would indicate you need to be more precise in your wording.
The implication you made was that in person schooling was generally available; "children of essential workers" and "vulnerable children" were the subset you should have referred to. It's also worth pointing out that plenty of "vulnerable children" were denied in person education, in particular children with special needs. Quite a few didn't receive in person teaching, essential given their needs because they aren't as important as NHS workers.
Logic would indicate that you should learn how to read
superflyblues
26-12-21, 15:19
Logic would indicate you're the reading capacity of a dead slug.
Your analogy is utterly false. How can a shop worker work online? Can they stock shelves virtually? Tesco online is a separate entity within the Tesco chain from the stores division, for example.
The point being made which is clearly miles above your head, is that a literal interpretation of Dripford's edicts indicate schools should close. Apart from those children who use public transport, teaching can be conducted remotely as it has been before - with some specific exceptions. As was pointed out, Dripford doesn't consider nuances and edge cases.
Oh dear. Made me chuckle though, so thanks for that.
Online shopping is a thing, therefore all shops should close type logic. Brilliant.
Which is precisely what he did before when he made Supermarkets barrier off 'non-essential' aisles to prevent people from buying things that might disadvantage shops he forced to close, without even considering on-line shopping, as a result of which both suffered. Of course on-line shopping was OK because he didn't ban delivery drivers, they are essential workers.
So are you suggesting that he should do the same again or accepting and agreeing that his edicts have nothing to do with protecting anything and have no real solid justification?
Oh dear. Made me chuckle though, so thanks for that.
Is that code for "I have no answer to that?" :xmashehe:
superflyblues
26-12-21, 15:26
Is that code for "I have no answer to that?" :xmashehe:
Exactly that, I've been beaten by my intellectual superiors possibly due to my 'dead slug' reading capacity.
Exactly that, I've been beaten by my intellectual superiors possibly due to my 'dead slug' reading capacity.
good of you to be so magnanimous in defeat!! :xmashomer:
superflyblues
26-12-21, 15:34
good of you to be so magnanimous in defeat!! :xmashomer:
No probs. How many teachers do you think will be fined?
No probs. How many teachers do you think will be fined?
None at all.
But that doesn't make the law right it just makes it an ass and we should all be allowed to ignore it.
But what would happen if some organisation, (like some of the ones always taking the UK government to court) brought an action against the Welsh government for breaking the law and demanded that it is fined £1000.oo for every teacher every day who went to school? And of course all the teachers to be fined retrospectively?
Or perhaps some poor privately employed person who has been fined?
Logic would indicate you've the reading capacity of a dead slug.
Your analogy is utterly false. How can a shop worker work online? Can they stock shelves virtually? Tesco online is a separate entity within the Tesco chain from the stores division, for example.
The point being made which is clearly miles above your head, is that a literal interpretation of Dripford's edicts indicate schools should close. Apart from those children who use public transport, teaching can be conducted remotely as it has been before - with some specific exceptions. As was pointed out, Dripford doesn't consider nuances and edge cases.
Whenever I read a post of yours I imagine you back in August 2021 thinking "oh my god I'm gonna call myself logic and then start replies with logic would indicate, it's gonna be absolute class" and then going to the effort of making an account and it makes me so glad I've never done that
Jordi Culé
26-12-21, 16:06
None at all.
But that doesn't make the law right it just makes it an ass and we should all be allowed to ignore it.
But what would happen if some organisation, (like some of the ones always taking the UK government to court) brought an action against the Welsh government for breaking the law and demanded that it is fined £1000.oo for every teacher every day who went to school? And of course all the teachers to be fined retrospectively?
Or perhaps some poor privately employed person who has been fined?
From 20 December, people must work from home where reasonably practicable for them to do so. Employers must allow or require their employees to work from home unless there is a clear business or well-being need that would make working from home impractical where reasonable, in line with their duties to take reasonable measures.
Source: https://gov.wales/alert-level-2-guidance-public-html
superflyblues
26-12-21, 16:11
From 20 December, people must work from home where reasonably practicable for them to do so. Employers must allow or require their employees to work from home unless there is a clear business or well-being need that would make working from home impractical where reasonable, in line with their duties to take reasonable measures.
Source: https://gov.wales/alert-level-2-guidance-public-html
Oy, stop it with your pertinent referenced facts, dude :-)
Xsnaggle initially stated "And teachers cannot go to school because they'll get fined given the fact the welsh government knows they can work from home." Now he's claiming 'None at all' will get fined...
Oy, stop it with your pertinent referenced facts, dude :-)
Xsnaggle initially stated "And teachers cannot go to school because they'll get fined given the fact the welsh government knows they can work from home." Now he's claiming none will get fined...
I'm not "claiming" any such thing. you asked me how many i think will actually get find and I said none. That is because I think that is what the result will be, but it doesn't alter the fact that they will break the law by going to work nor the fact that the law is completely stupid.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 16:27
I'm not "claiming" any such thing. you asked me how many i think will actually get find and I said none. That is because I think that is what the result will be, but it doesn't alter the fact that they will break the law by going to work nor the fact that the law is completely stupid.
Happy to retract 'claiming' and replace with 'suggesting'. Hope that's ok?
You don't seem to be acknowledging the content of post 209? Doesn't that change your perception of how the reg should be understood and applied?
Happy to retract 'claiming' and replace with 'suggesting'. Hope that's ok?
You don't seem to be acknowledging the content of post 209? Doesn't that change your perception of how the reg should be understood and applied?
I saw no need to respond to 209, its not an opinion it's a statement of what the regulation says, it says nothing that alters what I've been arguing. People who can work from home must. it does say except.... and give a list of exception does it?
And no suggesting is also not correct. Your wording implies that I made an opinion I didn't. I answered your direct question with a direct answer.
Your question was deliberately worded to invite the reply you got, you instigated it, not me. I think no one will get fined but that doesn't mean I don't think they should. Either they should get fined or the law should be completely ignored by everyone, but we both know Mr Drakeford won't like that. They can work from home therefore they must, it doesn't say perhaps or maybe or sometimes.
splott parker
26-12-21, 16:56
Anyone else reckon that posters who hilariously :facepalm:use a play on words on people’s/team’s names lose all the hilarity and credibility of their posts on the umpteenth time they use them? Dripford, yawn, Weeds, yawn, Sjoke, yawn etc etc. Honestly, you aren’t the comedian you think you are.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 17:00
I saw no need to respond to 209, its not an opinion it's a statement of what the regulation says, it says nothing that alters what I've been arguing. People who can work from home must. it does say except.... and give a list of exception does it?
And no suggesting is also not correct. Your wording implies that I made an opinion I didn't. I answered your direct question with a direct answer.
Your question was deliberately worded to invite the reply you got, you instigated it, not me. I think no one will get fined but that doesn't mean I don't think they should. Either they should get fined or the law should be completely ignored by everyone, but we both know Mr Drakeford won't like that. They can work from home therefore they must, it doesn't say perhaps or maybe or sometimes.
Working from a class room would support the well-being needs of the children would it not?
I presume Xsnaggle thinks its reasonable for all schools to close and children taught at home.
Working from a class room would support the well-being needs of the children would it not?
But it is proven that they can teach from home they have already done it and nothing has changed, the technology is still in place.
From the date in what Jordi posted I would suspect that those words are from last Christmas although I'm not sure, and they worked from home then, and as someone else mentioned they happily closed down this year a week early for Christmas. That doesn't exactly imply prioritising the mental and educational need of the country's children does it?
The fact that it is far better that they do go to work and the schools stay open is not in dispute.
What is in dispute is the law itself. If they do what we all know is right they will be breaking the law, and if Drakeford does nothing to prevent them breaking the law he is implicit in its being broken and and is in breach himself. The law is a idiocy!!
I presume Xsnaggle thinks its reasonable for all schools to close and children taught at home.
Snaggle doesn't think any such thing, don't assume too much. I think that the schools should be open and the teachers should go to work. that is not the point I'm arguing.
The point is that if and when they do they will be breaking the law as it stands. That is because it is the law that is wrong. It is completely idiotic!
The trust in the British people. The bufoons famous words.
Weve got no chance.
The trust in the British people. The bufoons famous words.
Weve got no chance.
But this has nothing to do with him. This is our own welsh government
If you think otherwise you aren't paying attention. You'll get detention, if the schools are open that is. :xmashehe:
Jordi Culé
26-12-21, 17:36
But it is proven that they can teach from home they have already done it and nothing has changed, the technology is still in place.
From the date in what Jordi posted I would suspect that those words are from last Christmas although I'm not sure, and they worked from home then, and as someone else mentioned they happily closed down this year a week early for Christmas. That doesn't exactly imply prioritising the mental and educational need of the country's children does it?
The fact that it is far better that they do go to work and the schools stay open is not in dispute.
What is in dispute is the law itself. If they do what we all know is right they will be breaking the law, and if Drakeford does nothing to prevent them breaking the law he is implicit in its being broken and and is in breach himself. The law is a idiocy!!
The link is dated 23/12/2021.
The clue is in the date shown within the link.
The link is dated 23/12/2021.
The clue is in the date shown within the link.
The link may be but the words of the statement say from the 20th Dec, which is what made me think it may be a regurgitated statement (Not by you) from the last lockdown. Not finger pointing or anything I just noticed that.
Whenever I read a post of yours I imagine you back in August 2021 thinking "oh my god I'm gonna call myself logic and then start replies with logic would indicate, it's gonna be absolute class" and then going to the effort of making an account and it makes me so glad I've never done that
Don't be unfair: I think many of us had similarly silly ideas when we too were 13.
superflyblues
26-12-21, 18:33
But it is proven that they can teach from home they have already done it and nothing has changed, the technology is still in place.
From the date in what Jordi posted I would suspect that those words are from last Christmas although I'm not sure, and they worked from home then, and as someone else mentioned they happily closed down this year a week early for Christmas. That doesn't exactly imply prioritising the mental and educational need of the country's children does it?
The fact that it is far better that they do go to work and the schools stay open is not in dispute.
What is in dispute is the law itself. If they do what we all know is right they will be breaking the law, and if Drakeford does nothing to prevent them breaking the law he is implicit in its being broken and and is in breach himself. The law is a idiocy!!
The regs do not apply to teachers for the reasons given, no teachers will be fined. Not sure what else I can say on this.
The regs do not apply to teachers for the reasons given, no teachers will be fined. Not sure what else I can say on this.
The regs don't mention teachers being exempt and they weren't last time. But the point is that the law is rediculous, the teacher thing is an example of that/ you can go to the pub but not to work? really?
The olny reason he didn't close the pubs is because he doesn't want to pay them, he want then to shut of their own accord even if tht means them going bust.no point in continuing any futher. Enjoy the eof your holiday
Has anyone actually read the separate regulations relating to education and childcare settings, including the letter sent to all headteachers at the end of last term? or is this thread about something completely different?
I never heard of that. My beef is not with teachers or schools its with the stupid law that says you can be fined for going to work but you can go to the pub or the gym or whatever any time you want.
Splott-light...
26-12-21, 19:16
Anyone else reckon that posters who hilariously :facepalm:use a play on words on people’s/team’s names lose all the hilarity and credibility of their posts on the umpteenth time they use them? Dripford, yawn, Weeds, yawn, Sjoke, yawn etc etc. Honestly, you aren’t the comedian you think you are.
Twot Porker is off again
Jordi Culé
26-12-21, 19:17
Has anyone actually read the separate regulations relating to education and childcare settings, including the letter sent to all headteachers at the end of last term? or is this thread about something completely different?
I have and it isn't.
I've pointed out what was available generally where people could interpret the information accordingly.
I'll be kind and suggest there's a difference of opinion.
I never heard of that
All that arguing :hehe:
I have and it isn't.
I've pointed out what was available generally where people could interpret the information accordingly.
I'll be kind and suggest there's a difference of opinion.
The thread seems to contain posters picking parts of the legislation to suit their side of the discussion, rather than considering all of it.
Bit like finding a galaxy in the shape of a cross😊
splott parker
27-12-21, 02:59
Twot Porker is off again
‘Ark at Under The Split Clit:xmashomer:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.