View Full Version : BBC 4 Podcast - The Coming Storm
AfricanBluebird
09-02-22, 07:06
Thought this was super.
Brilliant journalism. Very fair, balanced and detailed enough.
Really gets into the nitty gritty of qanon and the evolution of conspiracy theories leading up to and post Jan 6.
the other bob wilson
09-02-22, 08:04
One I’ve been meaning to listen to for months, but never got around to it, you’ve persuaded me to put the first episode on now :thumbup:
life on mars
09-02-22, 09:13
Brilliant listen , fascinating stuff.
truthpaste
09-02-22, 10:27
Thought this was super.
Brilliant journalism. Very fair, balanced and detailed enough.
Really gets into the nitty gritty of qanon and the evolution of conspiracy theories leading up to and post Jan 6.
Thanks for this - will listen too.
cyril evans awaydays
09-02-22, 10:41
You could have followed this in real time in the Donald Trump and associated threads on the Politics Board. Though almost all proponents of the ridiculous Q theories seem to have taken Trappist vows of late.
You could have followed this in real time in the Donald Trump and associated threads on the Politics Board. Though almost all proponents of the ridiculous Q theories seem to have taken Trappist vows of late.
they'll be back
We aren't far behind the Americans on this.. speak to many tories and they are completely unhinged and living in a fantasy world.
AfricanBluebird
09-02-22, 12:52
We aren't far behind the Americans on this.. speak to many tories and they are completely unhinged and living in a fantasy world.
True Doucas
Living in Uganda, there is such an eclectic mix of people so you hear all kinds of views and get into some of the strangest concersations.
Most people are amazing.
But 'conservative evangelical missionaries' are the strangest bunch - batshit crazy for Trump - they literally worship him. Also, those British people who identify themselves as 'expats' are also strange. Usually Tory Brexiteers who see no irony in them being migrants here, but hate immigration to the UK. They almost have ZERO Ugandan friends and hang around with each other in a weird toxic little Tory bubble.
JamesWales
09-02-22, 12:57
We aren't far behind the Americans on this.. speak to many tories and they are completely unhinged and living in a fantasy world.
:hehe:
It's like ten thousand spoons, when all you need is a knife..
JamesWales
09-02-22, 13:01
True Doucas
Living in Uganda, there is such an eclectic mix of people so you hear all kinds of views and get into some of the strangest concersations.
Most people are amazing.
But 'conservative evangelical missionaries' are the strangest bunch - batshit crazy for Trump - they literally worship him. Also, those British people who identify themselves as 'expats' are also strange. Usually Tory Brexiteers who see no irony in them being migrants here, but hate immigration to the UK. They almost have ZERO Ugandan friends and hang around with each other in a weird toxic little Tory bubble.
"Conservative Evangelical Missionaries?"
You mean the president of the country you live in and who won an overwhelming majority in the 2021 Ugandan General Election?
Uganda's Museveni: I love Trump for being frank with Africans
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42795588
The mental gymnastics you guys get yourselves in to blame anything on the Tories / Trump / Brexit is quite extraordinary. You just lie to yourself, it's so weird.
Life is too short. Just be open minded and let reality flow in and then make a political decision based on that, rather than some pre-obtained theory on how things might have been and then twisting reality to fit that.
We aren't far behind the Americans on this.. speak to many tories and they are completely unhinged and living in a fantasy world.
So speaks the looney left.
So speaks the looney left.
I mean we have an extreme right wing government who has seen the biggest drop in living standards in decades if not longer.
What makes the left looney then? Dailymail reader by any chance?
JamesWales
09-02-22, 14:58
I mean we have an extreme right wing government who has seen the biggest drop in living standards in decades if not longer.
What makes the left looney then? Dailymail reader by any chance?
The fact that you think the current UK government is an 'extreme right wing government' is a pretty good giveaway tbf
:hehe:
It's like ten thousand spoons, when all you need is a knife..
Never heard of a spork?
"Conservative Evangelical Missionaries?"
You mean the president of the country you live in and who won an overwhelming majority in the 2021 Ugandan General Election?
Uganda's Museveni: I love Trump for being frank with Africans
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42795588
The mental gymnastics you guys get yourselves in to blame anything on the Tories / Trump / Brexit is quite extraordinary. You just lie to yourself, it's so weird.
Life is too short. Just be open minded and let reality flow in and then make a political decision based on that, rather than some pre-obtained theory on how things might have been and then twisting reality to fit that.
Jimbo, it's you who needs to open your eyes to the reality around you. If you really can't acknowledge the rise of rightwing populism and the damage it's doing then I feel for you. But don't go having a pop at everyone else who can.
JamesWales
09-02-22, 15:50
Jimbo, it's you who needs to open your eyes to the reality around you. If you really can't acknowledge the rise of rightwing populism and the damage it's doing then I feel for you. But don't go having a pop at everyone else who can.
I'm not having a pop old pal.
On the contrary if anything, I am saying it's perhaps a bigger issue (in Uganda) than suggested, which was that a few missionaries are pro-Trump, when actually the guy who won the election last year with a landslide has made pro-Trump statements. Perhaps Ugandans like him? And perhaps most of the people that "Are amazing" can both like the president's statements and also be nice people? It's almost as if people and politics aren't black and white.
That said, I think there is a touch of the 'Emmanuel Goldsteins' about the rise of these figures who are often created to strike fear into liberals hearts.
It's true that there is a thread you could use to link Bolsonaro to Trump to Johnson to Orban to Putin if you so wished. But it ignores enormous differences between them all and is frankly fantasy, not least because Johnson is socially liberal and a world away from someone like Bolsonaro in Brazil.
What is more, Trump lost the last election, Bolsonaro is well behind in the polls and Poland and Hungary's leaders, whilst very popular are now receiving a much more co-ordinated opposition.
Further to that, a thread could equally be made linking Biden to Trudeau to Pedro Sanchez to Macron to Olaf Scholz to Jacinda Adern.
The reality is that in a world of 200 odd countries, they are all moving in their own directions, some leftward, some rightward, and generally speaking that is no bad thing.
Perhaps the 1990s and 2000's aside, previous decades were FAR more concerning when great swathes of the world were disappearing into authoritarian misery on both political extremes.
A lot of this is moral panic for middle class liberals to shit their pants over. Whether it's Corbyn stealing your pension or Johnson being a fascist..it's mainly bollocks. The reality of governance see's to that.
In the meantime, websites have stories that need sharing and ad revenues that rely on clicks.
Thanks for the recommendation. Listened to the first couple of episodes and am finding it fascinating.
:hehe:
It's like ten thousand spoons, when all you need is a knife..
...So you're saying you met the man of your dreams, but then met his beautiful wife? :sherlock:
chrisp_1927
09-02-22, 19:17
The qanon stuff is mad beyond belief, will have a listen to this. Always find it hard to tell who actually believes it, and who is just going along with it because they want to attract the qanon supporters.
True Doucas
Living in Uganda, there is such an eclectic mix of people so you hear all kinds of views and get into some of the strangest concersations.
Most people are amazing.
But 'conservative evangelical missionaries' are the strangest bunch - batshit crazy for Trump - they literally worship him. Also, those British people who identify themselves as 'expats' are also strange. Usually Tory Brexiteers who see no irony in them being migrants here, but hate immigration to the UK. They almost have ZERO Ugandan friends and hang around with each other in a weird toxic little Tory bubble.
Why a tory bubble and not just an ex pat bubble?
AfricanBluebird
09-02-22, 22:21
I'm not having a pop old pal.
On the contrary if anything, I am saying it's perhaps a bigger issue (in Uganda) than suggested, which was that a few missionaries are pro-Trump, when actually the guy who won the election last year with a landslide has made pro-Trump statements. Perhaps Ugandans like him? And perhaps most of the people that "Are amazing" can both like the president's statements and also be nice people? It's almost as if people and politics aren't black and white.
That said, I think there is a touch of the 'Emmanuel Goldsteins' about the rise of these figures who are often created to strike fear into liberals hearts.
It's true that there is a thread you could use to link Bolsonaro to Trump to Johnson to Orban to Putin if you so wished. But it ignores enormous differences between them all and is frankly fantasy, not least because Johnson is socially liberal and a world away from someone like Bolsonaro in Brazil.
What is more, Trump lost the last election, Bolsonaro is well behind in the polls and Poland and Hungary's leaders, whilst very popular are now receiving a much more co-ordinated opposition.
Further to that, a thread could equally be made linking Biden to Trudeau to Pedro Sanchez to Macron to Olaf Scholz to Jacinda Adern.
The reality is that in a world of 200 odd countries, they are all moving in their own directions, some leftward, some rightward, and generally speaking that is no bad thing.
Perhaps the 1990s and 2000's aside, previous decades were FAR more concerning when great swathes of the world were disappearing into authoritarian misery on both political extremes.
A lot of this is moral panic for middle class liberals to shit their pants over. Whether it's Corbyn stealing your pension or Johnson being a fascist..it's mainly bollocks. The reality of governance see's to that.
In the meantime, websites have stories that need sharing and ad revenues that rely on clicks.
Interesting that many Ugandans did find Trump appealing, at first. However this is somewhat connected to Uganda being somewhat of a missionary zone for conservative evangelicals coming and spreading their strange and twisted version of their religion. Evangelical conservative Christianity is embraced here and the 'kill the gays' bill was funded by right wing evangelical nut jobs from the US 'the Elijah list' and 'Lou Engle'... Huge republicans.
My point was this... Stupid conspiracy theories and lack of critical thinking exists within the evangelical rightwing church and sadly gets exported to Uganda.
Uganda has enough problems of our own, without 'TV evangelists' pumping out the prosperity gospel which drives people into more poverty and unhealthy obsessions with right wing conspiracy theories.
Also, if you take the time to listen to the podcast, there is a lot on Bill and Hilary Clinton, Bill in particular gets exposed for some of the awful stuff he did.
However, I understand why conservatives would try to distance themselves from QANON, but sadly it has been embraced by conservatives, mainly in the US but also in the UK.
Anyway. City won. That's far more important tonight.
It's true that there is a thread you could use to link Bolsonaro to Trump to Johnson to Orban to Putin if you so wished. But it ignores enormous differences between them all and is frankly fantasy, not least because Johnson is socially liberal and a world away from someone like Bolsonaro in Brazil.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to insinuate with this. Is there a cabal of far right extremists acting out some coordinated plan? Honestly that isn't the point, 'though there is some evidence of it - see Steve Bannon. The point is surely that all the characters you list have several traits in common. These are, inter alia:
mendacity
amorality
opportunism
self aggrandisement
malignant narcism
They manifest as rightwing populists taking cues off each other because there is a gullible population out there that laps it up.
Why do you think Johnson suddenly discovered the repetition of rightwing conspiracy theories as a deflection tactic? That's straight out of the Trump playbook.
Wash DC Blue
09-02-22, 22:33
Jimbo, it's you who needs to open your eyes to the reality around you. If you really can't acknowledge the rise of rightwing populism and the damage it's doing then I feel for you. But don't go having a pop at everyone else who can.
I acknowledge the rise in populism and put the blame squarely at the door of those that took what was once the left and dragged it way westward.
The left has left me.
It is now such of a problem that what is currently considered to be the left cannot appeal to centre left voters.
I acknowledge the rise in populism and put the blame squarely at the door of those that took what was once the left and dragged it way westward.
The left has left me.
It is now such of a problem that what is currently considered to be the left cannot appeal to centre left voters.
Is westward to the left or right? I'm confused.
Anyway, it's a cracking podcast. I have a mate who's doing a PhD on conspiracy theories and she thinks it's good too.
Wash DC Blue
09-02-22, 22:40
Is westward to the left or right? I'm confused.
Anyway, it's a cracking podcast. I have a mate who's doing a PhD on conspiracy theories and she thinks it's good too.
Westward way left.
You must be familiar with Bill Maher?
I align myself with most of his views, I have for a long time.
How The Left was Lost
https://youtu.be/OdJOLMgY4p0
It's coming up to 4pm here and I walk my doggy, Smuggers, every day at 4. So, this thread reminded me of a couple and their doggy, Fred, I sometimes meet and talk to.
They're Republican Trumpers but kind of endearingly daft in what they come out with. One day they told me they didn't like Biden because he is a pedophile (apologies for American spellings). I mockingly laughed but then they told me they had evidence - he apparently sniffs people's hair when close to them and this is a sign of a pedophile. To me that's just guano crazy. Anyone else ever heard this?
P.S. On reflection, Fred would probably be the more rational of three of them if he could talk.
Wash DC Blue
09-02-22, 23:02
It's coming up to 4pm here and I walk my doggy, Smuggers, every day at 4. So, this thread reminded me of a couple and their doggy, Fred, I sometimes meet and talk to.
They're Republican Trumpers but kind of endearingly daft in what they come out with. One day they told me they didn't like Biden because he is a pedophile (apologies for American spellings). I mockingly laughed but then they told me they had evidence - he apparently sniffs people's hair when close to them and this is a sign of a pedophile. To me that's just guano crazy. Anyone else ever heard this?
P.S. On reflection, Fred would probably be the more rational of three of them if he could talk.
They sound bonkers Mate.
I know plenty of people who come out with this shite.
It has to be stressed though that there are as many clowns polar opposite to them.
I think that the horseshoe principle of political opinion is right when it comes down to the most vociferous, regardless of which way their political allegiances lie.
They sound bonkers Mate.
I know plenty of people who come out with this shite.
It has to be stressed though that there are as many clowns polar opposite to them.
I think that the horseshoe principle of political opinion is right when it comes down to the most vociferous, regardless of which way their political allegiances lie.
I don't really know anything of leftwing conspiracy theories. There's a large culture around this too?
the other bob wilson
10-02-22, 04:58
I'm not really sure what you're trying to insinuate with this. Is there a cabal of far right extremists acting out some coordinated plan? Honestly that isn't the point, 'though there is some evidence of it - see Steve Bannon. The point is surely that all the characters you list have several traits in common. These are, inter alia:
mendacity
amorality
opportunism
self aggrandisement
malignant narcism
They manifest as rightwing populists taking cues off each other because there is a gullible population out there that laps it up.
Why do you think Johnson suddenly discovered the repetition of rightwing conspiracy theories as a deflection tactic? That's straight out of the Trump playbook.
This thread is interesting as it shows the desperation of people trying to justify the way they feel about right wing populists. You are completely correct about the character of those who have been listed - politics is important to the extent that they are all right of centre, but it’s more to do with the type of person they are - entirely self serving and cynical.
the other bob wilson
10-02-22, 12:26
Just finished listening to the seventh, and last, episode. I found it riveting stuff which had me regularly changing my mind as to whether those believing in the gathering storm were deserving of contempt or pity, but in the end, I found myself agreeing with the conclusion reached by the narrator.
OurManFlint II
10-02-22, 13:14
I don't really know anything of leftwing conspiracy theories. There's a large culture around this too?
The left wing conspiracies tended to turn out to be the CIA
OurManFlint II
10-02-22, 13:17
It's coming up to 4pm here and I walk my doggy, Smuggers, every day at 4. So, this thread reminded me of a couple and their doggy, Fred, I sometimes meet and talk to.
They're Republican Trumpers but kind of endearingly daft in what they come out with. One day they told me they didn't like Biden because he is a pedophile (apologies for American spellings). I mockingly laughed but then they told me they had evidence - he apparently sniffs people's hair when close to them and this is a sign of a pedophile. To me that's just guano crazy. Anyone else ever heard this?
P.S. On reflection, Fred would probably be the more rational of three of them if he could talk.
I've seen the creepy videos they refer too, whilst its not evidence (far from it) as a father of 2 daughters i wouldn't be comfortable leaving them alone with Joe :hehe:
Never heard of a spork?
nearly right there is a nork :thumbup:
nearly right there is a nork :thumbup:
Really? I loved sporks the moment I first got one from a Taco Bell 25 years ago. Where do I get me a nork?
Just finished listening to the seventh, and last, episode. I found it riveting stuff which had me regularly changing my mind as to whether those believing in the gathering storm were deserving of contempt or pity, but in the end, I found myself agreeing with the conclusion reached by the narrator.
Bob
There's a documentary on Netflix or HBO I think which gives more detail on QAnon and concludes it's Ron Watkins who is now running for Congress ... in Arizona District 1. Gulp.
the other bob wilson
10-02-22, 18:42
Bob
There's a documentary on Netflix or HBO I think which gives more detail on QAnon and concludes it's Ron Watkins who is now running for Congress ... in Arizona District 1. Gulp.
That was the impression given in the Podcast as well - thanks for that about the documentary, I’ll have a look on Netflix and see if I can find it.
That was the impression given in the Podcast as well - thanks for that about the documentary, I’ll have a look on Netflix and see if I can find it.
The narrator mentioned a six-part HBO documentary at the end of episode 4 I’ve just listened to called ‘Q: Into the Storm’.
Mozzers in 1,000,000. 999,999. 999,998...
the other bob wilson
11-02-22, 19:21
The narrator mentioned a six-part HBO documentary at the end of episode 4 I’ve just listened to called ‘Q: Into the Storm’.
:thumbup:
Really? I loved sporks the moment I first got one from a Taco Bell 25 years ago. Where do I get me a nork?
not sure i came across them in hospital
truthpaste
15-02-22, 13:06
Just finished listening to the seventh, and last, episode. I found it riveting stuff which had me regularly changing my mind as to whether those believing in the gathering storm were deserving of contempt or pity, but in the end, I found myself agreeing with the conclusion reached by the narrator.
Yes the narrator did an excellent job and I look forward to hearing his next series, should it be something that interests me. He was mainly restricted (understandably) at looking at this from a political perspective, and with the default BBC position of a secular standpoint, he wasn't able to comment on some of the other aspects touched upon as his investigation unfolded.
In the main, the people he met who were making spiritual comments were OTT and would discredit those who would possess a more balanced viewpoint and welcome a reasonable conversation with you, me or any media reporter.
Having said that, he was doing this mainly for a british audience, who would mostly NOT care to hear about some major shifts in spiritual influences in the USA from the 90's to the present day - as a spiritual vacuum for the under 40's has been filled with many practices that can be collectively summed up as the occult*
* (in just one area of the Occult - "The numbers of Americans who identify with Wicca or paganism has risen from 134,000 in 2001 to nearly 2 million today") >> LINK (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/28/celtic-festival-samhain-2021-celebration-wicca-witches/6182226001/)
Of course when voting happens in the UK, we as a nation care little for the candidates spiritual position; as long as he/ she doesn't slaughter goats on their local common at midnight or condemn people associated with the ever growing list of letters starting with LGB.
So yes, there is a coming storm and Gabriel Gatehouse has already witnessed aspects of it with a number of red herrings (as there always is) thrown into the mix - I really hope he and others keep an eye on the significant narritive - and keep that magnifying glass close at hand.
OurManFlint II
15-02-22, 13:24
I enjoyed this, would not have come across it so thanks for the head's up.
The Jon Ronson book 'Them' tackles the secret cables running the world http://www.jonronson.com/them.html he's such a good story teller, would recommend all his books.
AfricanBluebird
15-02-22, 15:10
I enjoyed this, would not have come across it so thanks for the head's up.
The Jon Ronson book 'Them' tackles the secret cables running the world http://www.jonronson.com/them.html he's such a good story teller, would recommend all his books.
Thanks for the heads up on this OurManFlint.
I just looked at the summary of that book and seems right up my street.
AfricanBluebird
15-02-22, 15:14
Yes the narrator did an excellent job and I look forward to hearing his next series, should it be something that interests me. He was mainly restricted (understandably) at looking at this from a political perspective, and with the default BBC position of a secular standpoint, he wasn't able to comment on some of the other aspects touched upon as his investigation unfolded.
In the main, the people he met who were making spiritual comments were OTT and would discredit those who would possess a more balanced viewpoint and welcome a reasonable conversation with you, me or any media reporter.
Having said that, he was doing this mainly for a british audience, who would mostly NOT care to hear about some major shifts in spiritual influences in the USA from the 90's to the present day - as a spiritual vacuum for the under 40's has been filled with many practices that can be collectively summed up as the occult*
* (in just one area of the Occult - "The numbers of Americans who identify with Wicca or paganism has risen from 134,000 in 2001 to nearly 2 million today") >> LINK (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/28/celtic-festival-samhain-2021-celebration-wicca-witches/6182226001/)
Of course when voting happens in the UK, we as a nation care little for the candidates spiritual position; as long as he/ she doesn't slaughter goats on their local common at midnight or condemn people associated with the ever growing list of letters starting with LGB.
So yes, there is a coming storm and Gabriel Gatehouse has already witnessed aspects of it with a number of red herrings (as there always is) thrown into the mix - I really hope he and others keep an eye on the significant narritive - and keep that magnifying glass close at hand.
Hi truthpaste!
Been a while.
Interesting take, as always.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0014khc/louis-therouxs-forbidden-america-series-1-1-extreme-and-online#xtor=CS8-1000-%5BPromo_Box%5D-%5BSport_Promo%5D-%5BSport_Promo%5D-%5BPS_IPLAYER~N~m0014khc~P_LouisTherouxForbidenAme ricaS1E1%5D
I imagine people will also enjoy this
truthpaste
16-02-22, 15:43
Hi truthpaste!
Been a while.
Interesting take, as always.
Good to see you too.
If you are familiar with a guy called Ahab (the seventh king of Israel), then there is a fascinating parallel that links into the USA and their leadership in recent history; if you'd like more information then just PM me :thumbup:
Swiss Peter
17-02-22, 22:57
I had heard about this podcast, but was only nudged into listening to it after reading about it on here. I'm on episode 6 now and it is fascinating!
Thanks to the OP! CCMB delivers again!
An epilogue episode has been released today, for anyone interested.
the other bob wilson
23-02-22, 05:00
An epilogue episode has been released today, for anyone interested.
Seems relavent given what’s said in the Epilogue episode.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/05/rees-mogg-firm-accused-of-cashing-in-on-coronavirus-crisis
truthpaste
26-02-22, 19:04
The final words of this excellent series....
"there is a battle to be fought for the future of our world"
When we started listening to this series little did we know what these words would mean to us as February faded away.
Let's hope & pray that those in high places make some wise decisions, for all our sakes :sherlock:
Wales-Bales
17-05-24, 15:36
Gabriel & Lucy are back in America, and they've found themselves a right nutter!
https://x.com/IvanRaiklin/status/1790131450936746109
Joe Gillis
18-05-24, 07:43
I mean we have an extreme right wing government who has seen the biggest drop in living standards in decades if not longer.
What makes the left looney then? Dailymail reader by any chance?
Extreme right wing? Now YOU sound like Q
Really? I loved sporks the moment I first got one from a Taco Bell 25 years ago. Where do I get me a nork?
yes, i would imagine shops that sell disability aids would have them:thumbup:
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