View Full Version : The Green Revolution, energy prices and the War
North Cardiff Blue
08-03-22, 17:18
It looks like Boris about to say we can't buy any Russian oil or gas, everything is going to get even more expensive, we'll do something towards it, and it's full push to the green revolution so we don't have to suffer like this again.
Are they connected, will people go for it, and what are the alternatives?
Is the North Sea and or fracking a short term solution?
tforturton
08-03-22, 18:38
Not pleased to see that my prediction of a few months ago has come to pass, but we're going to have to re-start oil and gas exploration pronto, in a bid to be as self-sufficient as we can. It won't affect the global price (well, not much), but at least we won't be relying on anyone else to supply it. Fracking is out at the moment, but drilling? Fill your boots.
it was always going that way, this might just speed it up
same as us going cashless, covid has appeared to have ramped that us, still have places that dont accept cash
I pity the fool who have just purchased a 2018 Dirty Diesel Qashqai :angry::shrug:
Get building that barrage between cardiff bay and Bristol….free power for us all, nice quick rd between both cities, no more Newport, few birds might have to find a new home to nest in a few miles upstream though…..
dembethewarrior
08-03-22, 19:55
Saw earlier South Korea have thousands of floating solar panels.
Wales-Bales
08-03-22, 20:23
It looks like Boris about to say we can't buy any Russian oil or gas, everything is going to get even more expensive, we'll do something towards it, and it's full push to the green revolution so we don't have to suffer like this again.
Are they connected, will people go for it, and what are the alternatives?
Is the North Sea and or fracking a short term solution?
Why would you get rid of the old solution when the new one wasn't already in place? Everybody will end up paying the price with a big drop in their standard of living.
Wales-Bales
08-03-22, 20:30
Not pleased to see that my prediction of a few months ago has come to pass, but we're going to have to re-start oil and gas exploration pronto, in a bid to be as self-sufficient as we can. It won't affect the global price (well, not much), but at least we won't be relying on anyone else to supply it. Fracking is out at the moment, but drilling? Fill your boots.
Unfortunately there won't be any drilling due to climate change, and the same thing is happening in the US too.
Armitage Shanks
09-03-22, 01:02
I think the opposite, we will sustain ourselves with dirty fuel for a long time to come and on our door step.
It was okay to say that the uk will go green because it was placed like Russia that were supplying us with this type of fuel.
Now we aren't sourcing it from there we have to get it here.
Jimmy the Jock
09-03-22, 07:13
Why would you get rid of the old solution when the new one wasn't already in place? Everybody will end up paying the price with a big drop in their standard of living.
Are we saying our standard of living is more important than supporting the poor people of the Ukraine ?
We are talking about people with white faces here remember ....
Undercoverinwurzelland
09-03-22, 09:03
How long is it going to take to get any supply from more North Sea drilling or fracking though?
I don't understand how we ended up in this situation, nuclear power gives us the energy we need and is climate friendly. We should have been building them over the past 30 years. Typical of neoliberalists though to never think long term.
North Cardiff Blue
09-03-22, 09:35
How long is it going to take to get any supply from more North Sea drilling or fracking though?
I don't think it would take that long, a lot of politicians think fracking is the answer, but there are even more against it, I think we need a combination of all three, Green measures, fracking and North Sea oil increases, some big decisions to be made in the coming weeks!
What I can't understand is how the price of oil got so high before the war, surely it's in their interests to keep the price down and country's dependant upon it, now they are pushing governments away faster to implement more and more green measures more quickly?
Unless Putin was trying to push the price up, could he have that much influence, so he could invade and leave the world more scared to implement sanctions?
North Cardiff Blue
09-03-22, 09:37
I don't understand how we ended up in this situation, nuclear power gives us the energy we need and is climate friendly. We should have been building them over the past 30 years. Typical of neoliberalists though to never think long term.
True its been talked about for years and no action has been taken?
I don't think it would take that long, a lot of politicians think fracking is the answer, but there are even more against it, I think we need a combination of all three, Green measures, fracking and North Sea oil increases, some big decisions to be made in the coming weeks!
What I can't understand is how the price of oil got so high before the war, surely it's in their interests to keep the price down and country's dependant upon it, now they are pushing governments away faster to implement more and more green measures more quickly?
Unless Putin was trying to push the price up, could he have that much influence, so he could invade and leave the world more scared to implement sanctions?
Problem is that no one wants to live near a fracking site as it can infect and pollute the groundwater
Also, if I remember rightly, fracking sites tend to be quite short term, and stop being effective and efficient after just a few years.
life on mars
09-03-22, 23:58
I'm sure the government has a plan to purchase oil from elsewhere as will the USA money and influence always pulls through.
life on mars
10-03-22, 00:02
True its been talked about for years and no action has been taken?
It's political back in 2018 Labour , SNP , Greens , Liberals were either split or against nuclear power favouring the German way forward, Tories didn't want to upset anyone , how things change .
Des Parrot
10-03-22, 05:39
Does seem to me that someone in the UK fuel supply is making the most of this. Here in Poland fuel costs have increased by about 10% but diesel is still only roughly £1 a litre.
Does seem to me that someone in the UK fuel supply is making the most of this. Here in Poland fuel costs have increased by about 10% but diesel is still only roughly £1 a litre.
I'm on a Facebook group based in the US, they are moaning its risen to $3.99 ( it was about $3 before Putin started ) now, thats a GALLON though :hehe:
20 years ago when there were fuel shortages, refinery blockades etc because the pump price was about to hit £1 a litre, people started driving more efficiently. Those who had fuel were bimbling along motorways at 50-55mph to increase efficiency.
People just don't seem to have the same mindset at the moment.
I'm on a Facebook group based in the US, they are moaning its risen to $3.99 ( it was about $3 before Putin started ) now, thats a GALLON though :hehe:
US gallons are smaller. And gas taxes are tiny in comparison with the UK. They have also been fixed at something like 30-odd cents since the '80s I think. Those facts make a big difference to the pump prices.
It's political back in 2018 Labour , SNP , Greens , Liberals were either split or against nuclear power favouring the German way forward, Tories didn't want to upset anyone , how things change .
I must have missed the Labour, SNP, Green, Liberal administration of 2018.
Gofer Blue
10-03-22, 09:50
It is almost 50 years since the infamous Sheik Yamani (of “shake your money” fame) oil embargo and when OPEC more or less held the west to ransom over oil supplies. We should have learned from that experience and kick started the green revolution back then.
North Cardiff Blue
10-03-22, 10:00
It is almost 50 years since the infamous Sheik Yamani (of “shake your money” fame) oil embargo and when OPEC more or less held the west to ransom over oil supplies. We should have learned from that experience and kick started the green revolution back then.
Definitely they've had us over a barrel (of oil) ever since!
OurManFlint II
10-03-22, 10:10
US gallons are smaller. And gas taxes are tiny in comparison with the UK. They have also been fixed at something like 30-odd cents since the '80s I think. Those facts make a big difference to the pump prices.
I though they hit this price and higher in 2008, 2011, 2012 & 2013 ?
OurManFlint II
10-03-22, 10:12
It's funny how all these companies are posting massive profits, record breaking in some cases.
Gofer Blue
10-03-22, 12:07
Definitely they've had us over a barrel (of oil) ever since!
Exactly, although I believe the OPEC countries are no longer the major players they were. Having said that, if we now have to go cap in hand to them because of supply problems elsewhere, then.......who knows!
I remember the advent of petrol rationing in 1973, in fact I still have my book of ration coupons which I kept as a souvenir of those days. They were never used in the end because the petrol stations themselves imposed limits on how much petrol you could buy. Imagine that today and the panic that would cause!
North Cardiff Blue
10-03-22, 12:28
Exactly, although I believe the OPEC countries are no longer the major players they were. Having said that, if we now have to go cap in hand to them because of supply problems elsewhere, then.......who knows!
I remember the advent of petrol rationing in 1973, in fact I still have my book of ration coupons which I kept as a souvenir of those days. They were never used in the end because the petrol stations themselves imposed limits on how much petrol you could buy. Imagine that today and the panic that would cause!
Jesus you only have to say there are five cars at ASDA petrol station these days and the country grinds to a halt, you're right it would be chaos!
dembethewarrior
10-03-22, 13:49
I'm on a Facebook group based in the US, they are moaning its risen to $3.99 ( it was about $3 before Putin started ) now, thats a GALLON though :hehe:
4.456 litres to a gallon multiplied by £1.67 = £7.44 here for a gallon.
Gofer Blue
10-03-22, 14:00
4.456 litres to a gallon multiplied by £1.67 = £7.44 here for a gallon.
1 US gallon = 3.78 litres.
So at $3.99 a gallon = $1.05 per litre.
$1 = £0.76, so price per litre in USA = 80p, approx half the UK price.
Cleve van Leef
10-03-22, 14:26
Question for the learned, Price of gas has more than doubled, but why has the price of electricity done the same? We don’t use gas to make electricity.
1 US gallon = 3.78 litres.
So at $3.99 a gallon = $1.05 per litre.
$1 = £0.76, so price per litre in USA = 80p, approx half the UK price.
:thumbup:
dembethewarrior
10-03-22, 15:26
1 US gallon = 3.78 litres.
So at $3.99 a gallon = $1.05 per litre.
$1 = £0.76, so price per litre in USA = 80p, approx half the UK price.
Thanks. Had no idea of the difference.
dembethewarrior
10-03-22, 15:27
Question for the learned, Price of gas has more than doubled, but why has the price of electricity done the same? We don’t use gas to make electricity.
I know man, that's trash. Sucks so hard.
OurManFlint II
10-03-22, 15:35
Question for the learned, Price of gas has more than doubled, but why has the price of electricity done the same? We don’t use gas to make electricity.
not sure if you are being sarcastic?
Rather than prices rises why don't they reduce profits, isn't that a novel idea.
Wales-Bales
10-03-22, 15:44
Are we saying our standard of living is more important than supporting the poor people of the Ukraine ?
We are talking about people with white faces here remember ....
The Green Revolution plan predates current events by quite a few years.
Cleve van Leef
10-03-22, 18:52
not sure if you are being sarcastic?
Rather than prices rises why don't they reduce profits, isn't that a novel idea.
No I’m not being sarcastic, it seems to me a valid point, is our electric powered by gas? I cannot understand why the price of electricity should rise alongside the price of gas. So why?
Agree with you on the profit side, but aren’t these companies now foreign owned? There should only be one of each and both Nationalised and British owned. Maggie has a lot to answer for.
LeningradCowboy
10-03-22, 19:47
Question for the learned, Price of gas has more than doubled, but why has the price of electricity done the same? We don’t use gas to make electricity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_gas_power_stations_in_the_United_K ingdom
Yes, we do.
LeningradCowboy
10-03-22, 19:59
It's funny how all these companies are posting massive profits, record breaking in some cases.
Which companies? Energy suppliers in the UK haven't been making any profits recently.
Cleve van Leef
10-03-22, 21:10
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_gas_power_stations_in_the_United_K ingdom
Yes, we do.
Well I never knew that. Anyway you should be sanctioned coming on this board. Is this more of Russian propaganda? :hehe:
OurManFlint II
11-03-22, 08:23
Which companies? Energy suppliers in the UK haven't been making any profits recently.
More specifically Gas companies i was talking about with record profits but having read newspapers these last years it was very easy to find this information as it widely reported "Cumulatively between 2016 and 2020, five of the UK's largest energy providers generated a total of £7.7 billion in operating profit." Also wonder how much is tax payer subsidised or off set off-shore so no tax is being paid on those profits. :sherlock:
In other relevant news: A human right lawyer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Donziger )was sent to prison last month for daring to challenge Chevron.
And people are critical of Russians who follow state propaganda
Petrol price per litre now is slightly more than the price I was paying when I passed my driving test - per gallon!
Des Parrot
11-03-22, 16:44
Does seem to me that someone in the UK fuel supply is making the most of this. Here in Poland fuel costs have increased by about 10% but diesel is still only roughly £1 a litre.
Spoke too soon, it’s gone up 30% today. Now approximately £1.30 a litre
splott parker
11-03-22, 17:18
Spoke too soon, it’s gone up 30% today. Now approximately £1.30 a litre
Hmmm, may drive over and save some money:thumbup:
Des Parrot
11-03-22, 22:18
Hmmm, may drive over and save some money:thumbup:
My grandad used to do that, drive 10 miles to a different town cos the petrol was a (old) penny cheaper. Ford Zephyr, men have front sear, column shift, powder blue.
life on mars
13-03-22, 10:50
We all can make difference in our own way, we don't need heating on all the time , we could turn off street lighting / quiet road traffic lights, business premises lighting or half it all , impose a self disciplined 20mph/ 50mph driving on 30 or 60 mph roads .
In Berlin some are taking old showers as a demonstration of support of course its small things globally its massive.
I've dragged my excessive gas costs down from £3 a daytime £1.50 by turning off uneated rads and down to gas mark instead of 3 take quick showers instead of baths .
life on mars
13-03-22, 11:01
My grandad used to do that, drive 10 miles to a different town cos the petrol was a (old) penny cheaper. Ford Zephyr, men have front sear, column shift, powder blue.
Isnt the impact of transportation of fuel a big cost issue to us? As we import diesel import fuel from abroad and as an island its costly and , you also have drivers wages being lower in some countries to ours which forces retailers to pass on to customers.
Think I saw the the average EU litre is £1.47 , I've seen 1.59 a litre in UK.
Germany maybe nearer £1.90 all very complex and hard to compare commodity prices between countries ??
North Cardiff Blue
16-03-22, 10:30
I don't understand how we ended up in this situation, nuclear power gives us the energy we need and is climate friendly. We should have been building them over the past 30 years. Typical of neoliberalists though to never think long term.
It is starting to look like Nuclear Power Stations and Renewable energy will get a massive boost from this War/Invasion. Short term Boris is off to the Saudis, but long term this will have brought renewable energy forward, most people will now probably see a need for it?
Wales-Bales
16-03-22, 10:37
It is starting to look like Nuclear Power Stations and Renewable energy will get a massive boost from this War/Invasion. Short term Boris is off to the Saudis, but long term this will have brought renewable energy forward, most people will now probably see a need for it?
Is it every problem needs a solution, or every solution needs a problem?
Wales-Bales
17-03-22, 00:04
Russia's War in Ukraine May 'Fundamentally Alter' Global Economic, Political Order - IMF
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Russia's invasion of Ukraine will affect the entire global economy by slowing growth and jacking up inflation, and could fundamentally reshape the global economic order in the longer term, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) said on Tuesday.
Beyond the human suffering and historic refugee flows, the war is boosting prices for food and energy, fuelling inflation and eroding the value of incomes, while disrupting trade, supply chains and remittances in countries neighbouring Ukraine, the IMF said in a post on its website.
https://money.usnews.com/investing/news/articles/2022-03-16/russias-war-in-ukraine-may-fundamentally-alter-global-economic-political-order-imf
Wales-Bales
18-03-22, 22:51
In the face of the emerging global energy crisis triggered by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the IEA’s 10-Point Plan to Cut Oil Use proposes 10 actions that can be taken to reduce oil demand with immediate impact – and provides recommendations for how those actions can help pave the way to putting oil demand onto a more sustainable path in the longer term.
https://www.iea.org/reports/a-10-point-plan-to-cut-oil-use
North Cardiff Blue
08-04-22, 13:30
I don't understand how we ended up in this situation, nuclear power gives us the energy we need and is climate friendly. We should have been building them over the past 30 years. Typical of neoliberalists though to never think long term.
They are finally onto it?
It took them long enough !!!
North Cardiff Blue
22-06-22, 12:02
Is anyone starting to think the World situation with fuel and air travel is connected to the push for the green revolution ?
nomad blue
22-06-22, 15:55
Is anyone starting to think the World situation with fuel and air travel is connected to the push for the green revolution ?
No
Citizen's Nephew
22-06-22, 16:03
My grandad used to do that, drive 10 miles to a different town cos the petrol was a (old) penny cheaper. Ford Zephyr, men have front sear, column shift, powder blue.
Saw two late 70's Porsche 911s driving along the Taff Embankment on Monday clearly part of a classic car meet. The cost to maintain and run these cars now must be off the scale.
Saw two late 70's Porsche 911s driving along the Taff Embankment on Monday clearly part of a classic car meet. The cost to maintain and run these cars now must be off the scale.
good ..should be on the scrap heap years ago
No
Me either. I think it started as a result of nations emerging from lockdowns, a lack of reserves and has been made worse by the attack on Ukraine.
North Cardiff Blue
23-06-22, 11:22
Me either. I think it started as a result of nations emerging from lockdowns, a lack of reserves and has been made worse by the attack on Ukraine.
Yes all true, and I'm no consparacy theorist, but will the World Leaders do whatever it can to resolve it and push down the price of fuel as low as possible as quickly as possible.
Maybe now they think along the lines of, well this will push things along nicely we can advance the need for nuclear power stations, electric cars, offshore wind farms with less objections, and start to accelerate the reduction in emissisions?
I think things are playing out very nicely for their agenda, i'm not strongly against it, I just find it very convenient.
We all can make difference in our own way, we don't need heating on all the time , we could turn off street lighting / quiet road traffic lights, business premises lighting or half it all , impose a self disciplined 20mph/ 50mph driving on 30 or 60 mph roads .
In Berlin some are taking old showers as a demonstration of support of course its small things globally its massive.
I've dragged my excessive gas costs down from £3 a daytime £1.50 by turning off uneated rads and down to gas mark instead of 3 take quick showers instead of baths .
Reminds me Pontins in Rhyl
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