Seven months and six months

[The Lone Gunman]

That's how long it's been since Max Watters and Mark Harris scored a Championship goal.

Watters' one and only goal at this level came during the 3-2 defeat at Bristol City on 22/01/2022.

Harris last scored in the 2-0 victory Coventry at the CCS 15/02/2022.

That was the game in which Watters was hauled off by his manager on 37 minutes. He's started a total of eleven Championship games for City and has been brought off early in every one of them. The times he's been subbed are: 55 mins, 57 mins, 56 mins, 37 mins, 66 mins, 63 mins, 60 mins, 52 mins, 45 mins, 64 mins and 57 mins.

Some seem to believe Watters will eventually come good and is worth persevering with, but I just cannot see it. To me, he consistently looks like a League One player at best. As for Harris, he can look effective when playing out wide and has been a useful substitute on occasions, but he doesn't look good enough for a regular starting spot at this level.

Is Isaak Davies going to be the answer when he's fit? Maybe, but that seems like a big ask to me.

[Trigger]

The one on one miss didn't even annoy me as much as him and indeed the rest of the team walking around as o'dowda got to the ball and crossed to no one.

Midfielders too just don't seem to make runs into there.

It's clear we need strengthening and are probably waiting on clubs to allow loans out.

Fingers crossed they are half decent.

[2b2bdoo]

I think Watters has improved very very slightly in that he presses and runs the channels more but then that should be expected anyway. For me Harris is just lacking, he works hard and is neat and tidy but just isn’t a striker for me.

Tbh I thought Morison would have moved both on and brought in 3 strikers. He has brought in Etete but we are still two good strikers short and I still expect them to come in.

[Canton Kev]

The one on one miss didn't even annoy me as much as him and indeed the rest of the team walking around as o'dowda got to the ball and crossed to no one.

Midfielders too just don't seem to make runs into there.

It's clear we need strengthening and are probably waiting on clubs to allow loans out.

Fingers crossed they are half decent.

I think none of them thought O’dowda would keep it in. To be fair I was surprised he did.

[TWGL1]

I think none of them thought O’dowda would keep it in. To be fair I was surprised he did.

I think this season was always going to be transitional , and I think it’s best to judge this team after 12 games , that being said, at least we are creating chances on another day it would have been a draw.

I though we should have had a penalty and Harris should have buried his chance.

[Trigger]

I think none of them thought O’dowda would keep it in. To be fair I was surprised he did.

I though he might have (admittedly from the tv angle). He might not have, but surely if you see your team mate sprint to it you at least move.

That's the sort of easy potential tap ins a striker should be getting.

Just seemed poor, not just watters. Very few times do the midfielders get beyond him.

[Bobby Dandruff]

I though he might have (admittedly from the tv angle). He might not have, but surely if you see your team mate sprint to it you at least move.

That's the sort of easy potential tap ins a striker should be getting.

Just seemed poor, not just watters. Very few times do the midfielders get beyond him.

It really was poor. It is the basics for a professional footballer.

[Bobby Dandruff]

That's how long it's been since Max Watters and Mark Harris scored a Championship goal.

Watters' one and only goal at this level came during the 3-2 defeat at Bristol City on 22/01/2022.

Harris last scored in the 2-0 victory Coventry at the CCS 15/02/2022.

That was the game in which Watters was hauled off by his manager on 37 minutes. He's started a total of eleven Championship games for City and has been brought off early in every one of them. The times he's been subbed are: 55 mins, 57 mins, 56 mins, 37 mins, 66 mins, 63 mins, 60 mins, 52 mins, 45 mins, 64 mins and 57 mins.

Some seem to believe Watters will eventually come good and is worth persevering with, but I just cannot see it. To me, he consistently looks like a League One player at best. As for Harris, he can look effective when playing out wide and has been a useful substitute on occasions, but he doesn't look good enough for a regular starting spot at this level.

Is Isaak Davies going to be the answer when he's fit? Maybe, but that seems like a big ask to me.

Quite.

I’m just fed up of Watters being bullied by opposing defenders, being caught on the wrong side of them, seemingly always being on his heels and losing possession really cheaply. It is so frustrating to watch.

If he scored the occasional goal, then maybe I’d be more accepting of the above but he almost never looks remotely threatening on the floor or in the air.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

I think I hoped rather than believed he would come good cos we spent £1M on him (which, thinking about it, probably isn't all that much even on a gamble in this day and age) and I'm a soft git. He turned up 5 days before Neil Harris was sacked and knowing he was on his way out should the board have sanctioned the signing or did someone who wasn't the manager sign Watters? All seems a bit odd.

(When I say "knowing he was on his way out" I mean Dalman must have overheard someone mention it while playing backgammon in his gentleman's club).

[LA Bluebird]

Watters has been failing to get in position for crosses all season, there was a brilliant cross from Collins in the Birmingham game that was begging for him to get in front of his man and turn in that stands out. The one today was just obvious how bad it was.

[North Cardiff Blue]

That's how long it's been since Max Watters and Mark Harris scored a Championship goal.

Watters' one and only goal at this level came during the 3-2 defeat at Bristol City on 22/01/2022.

Harris last scored in the 2-0 victory Coventry at the CCS 15/02/2022.

That was the game in which Watters was hauled off by his manager on 37 minutes. He's started a total of eleven Championship games for City and has been brought off early in every one of them. The times he's been subbed are: 55 mins, 57 mins, 56 mins, 37 mins, 66 mins, 63 mins, 60 mins, 52 mins, 45 mins, 64 mins and 57 mins.

Some seem to believe Watters will eventually come good and is worth persevering with, but I just cannot see it. To me, he consistently looks like a League One player at best. As for Harris, he can look effective when playing out wide and has been a useful substitute on occasions, but he doesn't look good enough for a regular starting spot at this level.

Is Isaak Davies going to be the answer when he's fit? Maybe, but that seems like a big ask to me.


Jesus what a stat :frown:

[EastbourneBlue]

That's how long it's been since Max Watters and Mark Harris scored a Championship goal.

Watters' one and only goal at this level came during the 3-2 defeat at Bristol City on 22/01/2022.

Harris last scored in the 2-0 victory Coventry at the CCS 15/02/2022.

That was the game in which Watters was hauled off by his manager on 37 minutes. He's started a total of eleven Championship games for City and has been brought off early in every one of them. The times he's been subbed are: 55 mins, 57 mins, 56 mins, 37 mins, 66 mins, 63 mins, 60 mins, 52 mins, 45 mins, 64 mins and 57 mins.

Some seem to believe Watters will eventually come good and is worth persevering with, but I just cannot see it. To me, he consistently looks like a League One player at best. As for Harris, he can look effective when playing out wide and has been a useful substitute on occasions, but he doesn't look good enough for a regular starting spot at this level.

Is Isaak Davies going to be the answer when he's fit? Maybe, but that seems like a big ask to me.

Max Watters is 23. In my opinion he’s done enough to be given a little longer on the books, whether that’s on loan somewhere else or as a sub.

[The Lone Gunman]

Max Watters is 23.

Tommy Conway, who scored his fourth goal of the season for Bristol City today and looked lively all afternoon, is just 20.

Erling Haaland has just turned 22.

I know, I know, it’s ridiculous in all respects to mention Haaland and Watters in the same post, but 23 really isn’t that young for a footballer. Sure, he’s inexperienced to a degree, but I haven’t seen anything yet from Watters that suggests he’s ever going to be good enough at this level. Not a thing.

The biggest surprise for me so far this season is that Morison has been persisting with him. A couple of months ago I was certain Watters would have been either sent out on loan or offloaded altogether by now. I’m amazed the manager is using him as a lone striker after what we saw from both of them last season.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Tommy Conway, who scored his fourth goal of the season for Bristol City today and looked lively all afternoon, is just 20.

Erling Haaland has just turned 22.

I know, I know, it’s ridiculous in all respects to mention Haaland and Watters in the same post, but 23 really isn’t that young for a footballer. Sure, he’s inexperienced to a degree, but I haven’t seen anything yet from Watters that suggests he’s ever going to be good enough at this level. Not a thing.

The biggest surprise for me so far this season is that Morison has been persisting with him. A couple of months ago I was certain Watters would have been either sent out on loan or offloaded altogether by now. I’m amazed the manager is using him as a lone striker after what we saw from both of them last season.

I too was shocked he kept and is persisting with Watters. Collins is a better player than him for me.

[City123]

Max "Good movement" Watters' movement isn't even that good, just smacks of people trying to find something good about him

[dandywarhol]

They wasn't good enough last season, and they are certainly not good enough this season.

[EastbourneBlue]

Tommy Conway, who scored his fourth goal of the season for Bristol City today and looked lively all afternoon, is just 20.

Erling Haaland has just turned 22.

I know, I know, it’s ridiculous in all respects to mention Haaland and Watters in the same post, but 23 really isn’t that young for a footballer. Sure, he’s inexperienced to a degree, but I haven’t seen anything yet from Watters that suggests he’s ever going to be good enough at this level. Not a thing.

The biggest surprise for me so far this season is that Morison has been persisting with him. A couple of months ago I was certain Watters would have been either sent out on loan or offloaded altogether by now. I’m amazed the manager is using him as a lone striker after what we saw from both of them last season.

Watters has had two big chances. He’s scores both of them and he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. Keeper has got something on them both and they’ve gone centimetres wide of the target.

I don’t see any value in just flogging him for next to nothing. He’s probably a low earner so give him a chance to rediscover that goal scoring touch in the u23s, on loan or as a sub.

It hasn’t always got to be all or nothing.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Max Watters is 23. In my opinion he’s done enough to be given a little longer on the books, whether that’s on loan somewhere else or as a sub.

Cameron Jerome was 19 when he scored 20 goals in a season for us. By the time Earnshaw was 23 he'd scored 86 goals for us.

[The Lone Gunman]

Watters has had two big chances.

Two big chances in the five games he’s started this season? Or two big chances in the eleven games he’s started for City?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Two big chances in the five games he’s started this season? Or two big chances in the eleven games he’s started for City?

We are doing Watters a disservice. He has scored an average of 1 goal every 84 minutes in League 1/2.

That stat might read at 1 goal every 11 hours and 37 minutes he's played in the Championship, but he's having big chances.

[LeningradCowboy]

I think I hoped rather than believed he would come good cos we spent £1M on him (which, thinking about it, probably isn't all that much even on a gamble in this day and age) and I'm a soft git. He turned up 5 days before Neil Harris was sacked and knowing he was on his way out should the board have sanctioned the signing or did someone who wasn't the manager sign Watters? All seems a bit odd.

(When I say "knowing he was on his way out" I mean Dalman must have overheard someone mention it while playing backgammon in his gentleman's club).

I seem to remember Harris strongly implying that he wasn't involved in the signing of Watters.

[Cyclops]

That's how long it's been since Max Watters and Mark Harris scored a Championship goal.

Watters' one and only goal at this level came during the 3-2 defeat at Bristol City on 22/01/2022.

Harris last scored in the 2-0 victory Coventry at the CCS 15/02/2022.

That was the game in which Watters was hauled off by his manager on 37 minutes. He's started a total of eleven Championship games for City and has been brought off early in every one of them. The times he's been subbed are: 55 mins, 57 mins, 56 mins, 37 mins, 66 mins, 63 mins, 60 mins, 52 mins, 45 mins, 64 mins and 57 mins.

Some seem to believe Watters will eventually come good and is worth persevering with, but I just cannot see it. To me, he consistently looks like a League One player at best. As for Harris, he can look effective when playing out wide and has been a useful substitute on occasions, but he doesn't look good enough for a regular starting spot at this level.

Is Isaak Davies going to be the answer when he's fit? Maybe, but that seems like a big ask to me.

Cardiff's last game in the 2021/22 season was on 7 May 2022
Their first game in the 2022/23 season was on 30 July 2022
For almost three months, Cardiff played no Championship football.
Your heading should be Four months and three months.
Not quite as bad a record as you suggest then.

You refer to "... the game in which Watters was hauled off by his manager on 37 minutes"
That had nothing to do with Watters striking ability, but because he was not following his managers instructions re: closing down.

For several games in 2022, Morison has pursued a policy of subbing strikers on or around 60 mins. It is his strategy, not necessarily a reflection of Watters striking ability.

You are attempting to make Watters a scapegoat and scraping the barrel for facts.

I don't disagree with the contention that Watters is an ineffective striker at Championship level. But the REAL problem is that the TEAM is enjoying good possession (55% v Bristol City) but getting few shots on target (3 v Bristol City).

This is not solely Watters' fault and it is counterproductive to single him out in this way.

[Bobby Dandruff]

Max "Good movement" Watters' movement isn't even that good, just smacks of people trying to find something good about him

Precisely. It is embarrassing.

(And yet last week he had lots of support on Twitter 🤷*♂️)

[the other bob wilson]

Cardiff's last game in the 2021/22 season was on 7 May 2022
Their first game in the 2022/23 season was on 30 July 2022
For almost three months, Cardiff played no Championship football.
Your heading should be Four months and three months.
Not quite as bad a record as you suggest then.

You refer to "... the game in which Watters was hauled off by his manager on 37 minutes"
That had nothing to do with Watters striking ability, but because he was not following his managers instructions re: closing down.

For several games in 2022, Morison has pursued a policy of subbing strikers on or around 60 mins. It is his strategy, not necessarily a reflection of Watters striking ability.

You are attempting to make Watters a scapegoat and scraping the barrel for facts.

I don't disagree with the contention that Watters is an ineffective striker at Championship level. But the REAL problem is that the TEAM is enjoying good possession (55% v Bristol City) but getting few shots on target (3 v Bristol City).

This is not solely Watters' fault and it is counterproductive to single him out in this way.

I agree with the conclusion you come to. The BBC’s stats show that we’ve had seventeen on target efforts in six matches. That’s nothing special, especially when you consider seven of them came in one game (Birmingham) . So, in the other five we're averaging two a game.

To my mind, the three players we’ve used as strikers have had four good chances to score in those six games - Watters against Birmingham and yesterday, Etete against Birmingham and Harris yesterday. All four of them should have been scored, but when chances come along as rarely as they do in this team, I’d say there is more pressure on whoever there is who has them especially if your a striker who is still awaiting your first goal of the season.

We’ve got a better balanced midfield this season which is helping us get more of the ball, we’re playing with wingers, yet our manager insists our full backs are being encouraged to still get forward and there has been quite a lot of evidence to back him up in that respect so far. Yet, up to now, this is not producing the goalscoring opportunities that you hope it would.

Our manager has gone from losing it with a hack for being “negative” about one of our strikers to saying he s sick of making excuses for them in a few days. He implied that those strikers have missed far more chances than they actually have done.

None of this is to argue that our strikers are good enough - as I say in my blog piece on yesterday’s game, it’s obvious that Bristol have far better striking options than we do. As for Watters, the worst thing he did yesterday for me was when, as others have mentioned, he was nowhere in sight when O’Dowda it was I think put overa cross into a great area in the second half.

It’s becoming harder to argue that any of our strikers will turn out to be good enough while they all remain on no goals for the season. However, there are two problems here and the bigger one for me is that we’re creating nowhere near enough chances in open play at a time when our set piece threat has almost disappeared completely.

Yes,all of our strikers, especially Watters, have questions about their ability to cope at this level to answer, but to scapegoat him especially is to miss a bigger point in my opinion.

[The Lone Gunman]

For several games in 2022, Morison has pursued a policy of subbing strikers on or around 60 mins. It is his strategy, not necessarily a reflection of Watters striking ability.

Garbage. During the same period that he was taking Watters off early every time he played last season, Morison was often leaving Jordan Hugill on the pitch either until late in the game or for the whole game when he was in the side. The manager doesn't have a strategy of subbing strikers around 60 minutes. He subs strikers when he decides they're ineffective.

Let me ask you a question: if Watters was scoring goals and troubling opposition defences on any sort of a regular basis, do you think his manager would be taking him off every game at around the 60 minute mark?

I'm certainly not "attempting to make Watters a scapegoat," which is why I mentioned Harris in the same post. I actually feel a little sorry for the Watters. He looks well out of his depth to me. And I'm certainly not "scraping the barrel for facts," either. This bizarre situation whereby Watters get selected, fails to score, looks ineffective and gets taken off early has been going back as far as his debut for the club in January 2021, when Neil Harris took him off after 55 minutes of a 1-0 defeat to QPR. I can't remember anything similar happening to anyone else in all the years I've followed the club.

You and others have alluded to a lack of chances created by the side and that certainly has a degree of merit. However, I am convinced that Watters' lack of effective movement in and around the penalty area is a significant factor in bringing about that situation. After all, midfielders and wingers cannot create regular chances for strikers if those strikers don't make the necessary runs or space for themselves.

[EastbourneBlue]

Cameron Jerome was 19 when he scored 20 goals in a season for us. By the time Earnshaw was 23 he'd scored 86 goals for us.

Jerome fair enough but Earnshaw, as you know, scored many of those goals at a much lower level

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

They wasn't good enough last season, and they are certainly not good enough this season.


...wasn't

[olderblue]

Neither Watters or Harris are good enough at this level, it's that simple really, either the system doesn't suit their particular game and needs changing, by that I mean Watters playing off another striker, or we just accept that he needs to go out on loan at a level where he can score and regain his confidence.
He certainly isn't going to do that at Championship level, his anticipation and general movement is slower than needed, it can't all be down to effort, he isn't a Championship player at the moment end of.
Harris is another one that needs to go to a level where he can play regularly, and I'm not sure that he would command a regular starting place in a league one side?
Bigger question for me yesterday, was why Sawyers wasn't subbed at half time to be replaced by Colwill, it was that obvious!

[Cyclops]

Garbage.

Garbage, huh?
(No mention of the huge and misleading error in your thread title, btw. But I won't dwell on what that says.....)
Why don't you get out your little book of stats, your slide rule, your spreadsheets and analyse Cardiff's games from say March 1 to the end of the season. Then, produce a few piecharts and graphs (which are always impressive) and you'll see a pattern of play - assuming any nous for analysis - which is not always so with 'stat-men'.
During City's purple patch towards the end of last season, Morison's obvious plan was to bring on strikers with about half an hour to go - and it worked a treat.
"Let me ask you a question: if Watters was scoring goals and troubling opposition defences on any sort of a regular basis, do you think his manager would be taking him off every game at around the 60 minute mark?" I'll ask you a question: why does he even start with Watters? Answer: 'cos he's the best he's got in a cupboard that's bare. Harris isn't up to it. Etete isn't fit - he was 'blowing' after about fifteen minutes against Brum (I don't need a Handgrip Dynamometer or a Body Composition Analyzer - I just saw it). So, Morison is forced into a corner. His solution/plan is to play Watters and sub him around the hour mark as he did with his striker/s last season. It has little or nothing to do with Watters scoring goals - and all your (Oh, so very impressive) stats confirm only this.
And by-the-way, I made the point about possesion and shots on 6 August https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php?454181-61-39-Possession-2-shots-on-target&highlight=possession

[North Cardiff Blue]

Tommy Conway, who scored his fourth goal of the season for Bristol City today and looked lively all afternoon, is just 20.

Erling Haaland has just turned 22.

I know, I know, it’s ridiculous in all respects to mention Haaland and Watters in the same post, but 23 really isn’t that young for a footballer. Sure, he’s inexperienced to a degree, but I haven’t seen anything yet from Watters that suggests he’s ever going to be good enough at this level. Not a thing.

The biggest surprise for me so far this season is that Morison has been persisting with him. A couple of months ago I was certain Watters would have been either sent out on loan or offloaded altogether by now. I’m amazed the manager is using him as a lone striker after what we saw from both of them last season.

I think has written him off now, from his comments he's as frustrated as us, he gave him a good chance, we will see a Striker or two before the window closes for sure.

[The Lone Gunman]

Garbage, huh?

Yes. Garbage. Complete and utter garbage.

[Cyclops]

Yes. Garbage. Complete and utter garb.age.

Well that's a convincing argument!

Garbage used twice in eight words - that's 25%. And used as the second and then the fourth word. Inputted into my Predictometer, the next time it will be used is as the eighth word. However this means that its frequency of use drops to only 18.75%. Taken to its logical conclusion:
5118

[The Lone Gunman]

Well that's a convincing argument!

You’re talking garbage. Utter garbage. I will demonstrate as much when I have time this evening. But for the next ten hours or so I will be otherwise engaged, so you’ll have to be patient.

[Cyclops]

But for the next ten hours or so I will be otherwise engaged....

Spreadsheets and stuff?

Figures!
(Pun intended)

I'll be continuing my work on SM's ancestry - so won't bother even looking)

[Hilts]

The talk of lack of service may be a fair point but strikers are capable of being a threat themselves taking on a defender and making a chance themselves.

None of ours seem capable of that.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Jerome fair enough but Earnshaw, as you know, scored many of those goals at a much lower level

He did, but his tally of 26 in our first season after promotion to this division is still our highest in the Championship since the days of Toshack and Clark.

I'll happily bet any figure you like that Watters won't ever score 26 goals in one Championship season and that he won't go on to play in and score a hat trick in the PL.

[HiVis]

Chris Pike, Carl Dale and Cohen Griffith would have buried those 2 chances. forget league 1 level, he's just not good enough.

[EastbourneBlue]

He did, but his tally of 26 in our first season after promotion to this division is still our highest in the Championship since the days of Toshack and Clark.

I'll happily bet any figure you like that Watters won't ever score 26 goals in one Championship season and that he won't go on to play in and score a hat trick in the PL.

I’m also fairly confident Watters won’t go on to have the career Earnshaw had.

But we wrote off Healey, Glatzel and other strikers we’ve had too soon.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I’m also fairly confident Watters won’t go on to have the career Earnshaw had.

But we wrote off Healey, Glatzel and other strikers we’ve had too soon.

Or is it that some players are better suited to different clubs? Le Fondre scored goals regularly yet struggled with us. Just because an ex player is scoring goals, it doesn't mean they'd be scoring them for us if they were still here.

[Bobby Dandruff]

I’m also fairly confident Watters won’t go on to have the career Earnshaw had.

But we wrote off Healey, Glatzel and other strikers we’ve had too soon.

I don't think that we wrote Healey and Glatzel off too soon. Whereas I am always pleased to see former players go on to have goal scoring success at other clubs, I wouldn't want either of them back.

[EastbourneBlue]

I don't think that we wrote Healey and Glatzel off too soon. Whereas I am always pleased to see former players go on to have goal scoring success at other clubs, I wouldn't want either of them back.

You’re mad

[Hilts]

I wouldnt want either back either.

Of the 2 id have preferred Healy.

Sadly hes suffered a serious injury. Ruptured cruciate so hes out long term.

[Hilts]

Healey injury.

https://www.archysport.com/2022/08/hard-blow-for-toulouse-with-the-loss-of-its-flagship-striker-rhys-healey/

[Citizen's Nephew]

From WOL this evening: Quote from Steve Morison re signing a striker:

"Nothing, not a thing. Not for the want of trying or backing above. Like I've said to everyone who has asked me so far, I can't magic someone out of thin air," Morison said when asked about a striker search.

"What won't be happening is I won't be getting in a 32, 33, 34-year-old centre-forward just because it appeases everyone. It has to be the right player. Someone who will take us forward and help us progress.

"If that person doesn't arrive then people better back the people who are here because that's all we can do.

"Someone is going to have to become available for it to be possible. Because there are absolutely zero names, because everyone wants to talk about it, but no one has got a name or are bringing anything to the table!

"The recruitment team are working hard on it. But at the minute there is no one. There is no one there. I bet no one in here can give me a name. I'm not asking that to be funny. I'm being serious, everyone is saying to get someone...

"The board have been supportive on whatever we need to do and when we need to do it. Everyone has been brilliant. If there is someone on a free who hasn't had a club, they have missed 12 weeks of the season (and pre-season). It'll take them 12 weeks until they are up and running. But even then, there is no one who has jumped off the page."

Why does this ageist, newt-brained twat get a free pass? He's the guy in charge yet we're banging on about the players he's picking. The stats in the OP (let's just park the arguments for a moment) suggest Morison has no brain for this management game. He's way too predictable. Stubborn. Egotistical. He's not a very bright manager. He's proving that. During the close season so many said, he'll be judged by his team. This is his team.

And the Hughill thing. Let's conveniently forget some of the his *****-ups and just remember the good stuff. He huffed and puffed an awful lot under Morison and made some howlers too (but he runs a lot - the Cardiff way).

Sorry guys, but playing Watters up front on his own is the real madness. We had Mad Mick. We've got Mad Morison now. Continuously starting then hooking (let's face it) at the same f*cking time in each match.

Bristol City didn't bury all their chances on the weekend. They didn't need to. They had enough attacking options. We get all fired up about the 'one or two' chances we get not ending up in the back of the net and target the players all the time. That was a sh*t show yesterday. It's our percentage of chances that is shocking. It's f*cking disgracefully shocking (even when we put out the Real Madrid side against Norwich).

Read that quote and tell me you think he's got a grip, because I don't think he has or ever has.

[Bobby Dandruff]

You’re mad

No. Just not desperate.

I wish them well but they are not for us. Either of them.

[UNDERHILL1927]

From WOL this evening: Quote from Steve Morison re signing a striker:

"Nothing, not a thing. Not for the want of trying or backing above. Like I've said to everyone who has asked me so far, I can't magic someone out of thin air," Morison said when asked about a striker search.

"What won't be happening is I won't be getting in a 32, 33, 34-year-old centre-forward just because it appeases everyone. It has to be the right player. Someone who will take us forward and help us progress.

"If that person doesn't arrive then people better back the people who are here because that's all we can do.

"Someone is going to have to become available for it to be possible. Because there are absolutely zero names, because everyone wants to talk about it, but no one has got a name or are bringing anything to the table!

"The recruitment team are working hard on it. But at the minute there is no one. There is no one there. I bet no one in here can give me a name. I'm not asking that to be funny. I'm being serious, everyone is saying to get someone...

"The board have been supportive on whatever we need to do and when we need to do it. Everyone has been brilliant. If there is someone on a free who hasn't had a club, they have missed 12 weeks of the season (and pre-season). It'll take them 12 weeks until they are up and running. But even then, there is no one who has jumped off the page."

Why does this ageist, newt-brained twat get a free pass? He's the guy in charge yet we're banging on about the players he's picking. The stats in the OP (let's just park the arguments for a moment) suggest Morison has no brain for this management game. He's way too predictable. Stubborn. Egotistical. He's not a very bright manager. He's proving that. During the close season so many said, he'll be judged by his team. This is his team.

And the Hughill thing. Let's conveniently forget some of the his *****-ups and just remember the good stuff. He huffed and puffed an awful lot under Morison and made some howlers too (but he runs a lot - the Cardiff way).

Sorry guys, but playing Watters up front on his own is the real madness. We had Mad Mick. We've got Mad Morison now. Continuously starting then hooking (let's face it) at the same f*cking time in each match.

Bristol City didn't bury all their chances on the weekend. They didn't need to. They had enough attacking options. We get all fired up about the 'one or two' chances we get not ending up in the back of the net and target the players all the time. That was a sh*t show yesterday. It's our percentage of chances that is shocking. It's f*cking disgracefully shocking (even when we put out the Real Madrid side against Norwich).

Read that quote and tell me you think he's got a grip, because I don't think he has or ever has.

We’re five games in, the only one who’s not got a grip is you.

[Citizen's Nephew]

We’re five games in, the only one who’s not got a grip is you.

Being five games in has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've posted. Try and add something useful.

[The Lone Gunman]

Well that's a convincing argument!

OK, so let's have a proper go.

To recap, you’ve maintained that Steve Morison has pursued a deliberate 'strategy' of substituting his strikers on or around the 60-minute mark and you’ve claimed the fact that Max Watters is always taken off early is not a reflection of his performances, his abilities or his lack of goals. I've said I believe that is garbage.

You've also suggested that, during a purple patch towards the end of last season, the manager’s 'obvious plan' was to change his strikers with about a half an hour of the game to go. Considering City won just one of their final six matches in 2021/22, I presume you're referring to the period between 01/03/22 and 09/04/22, when the Bluebirds won four, drew one and lost one of their six Championship games and effectively ended the threat of relegation.

The focal point of the team’s attack during that spell was loan signing Jordan Hugill. He started all six matches. In the first (a 1-0 victory over Derby), he was subbed on 66 minutes. In the second (a 2-1 win at QPR), he was subbed on 82 minutes. In the third (a 0-0 draw with Preston), he played the full 90 minutes. In the fourth (a 2-1 victory over Stoke), he was subbed on 73 minutes. In the fifth (the dreadful 0-4 defeat to Swansea at the CCS), he was subbed on 70 minutes, and in the sixth (a 2-1 victory at Reading), he was subbed on 89 minutes.

As you can see, your memory is playing tricks on you. There was no deliberate strategy involving substituting the striker on or around the 60-minute mark. You imagined it.

Jordan Hugill started 17 games for Cardiff City last season. The earliest he was subbed in any of them was 66 minutes (coincidentally, the longest Max Watters has lasted in any of the matches he's started for the club is 66 minutes). Hugill completed five of the 17 games he started. During those 17 matches, he averaged 80 minutes on the pitch. Compare that with Watters, who has started 11 times and averaged 55 minutes.

So what about the other strikers the manager had at his disposal last season? Well, Kieffer Moore started 7 games under Morison and was subbed just twice, the second time due to an injury at Bournemouth. James Collins also started 7 matches under Morison's management. He completed three of those games and was subbed four times (on 81 mins, 63 mins, 60 mins and 65 mins). Uche Ikpeazu started just once and was hooked at half-time after a comedy performance at Hull.

Meanwhile, Mark Harris has started 12 league games under Morison. He’s another player who has frequently been subbed early, but not as often as Watters. Indeed, Harris played the full 90 minutes on four occasions for Morison last season. He also made it as far as 86 minutes in another game.

The following is a list of the average totals of minutes played by each of the aforementioned strikers in the league games they've started since Morison took charge (number of matches in brackets):

82 minutes - Kieffer Moore (7)
80 minutes - Jordan Hugill (17)
77 minutes - James Collins (7)
71 minutes - Mark Harris (12)
55 minutes - Max Watters (11)
45 minutes - Uche Ikpeazu (1)

I think that table tells its own story.

[The Lone Gunman]

Read that quote and tell me you think he's got a grip, because I don't think he has or ever has.

I suspect the manager's missed out on a number of striker targets and is now struggling to get anyone in, or perhaps he put too much faith in Etete before he was signed and is now discovering the player isn't yet ready for the Championship, or maybe both.

A couple of weeks ago, Morison bit a journalist's head off when he'd dared to suggest Etete might be one for the future. Morision steadfastly maintained the player wasn't 'a project' of any kind and was ready to go straight into the first team. I think perhaps he's found out since that isn't the case.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I think that table tells its own story.

But TLG. It tells a story. It's historical and one for the football academics. I'm not sure what the point is in labouring this any longer. Watters is sh*t in this side. I get that. So what can be done about it? That's Morison's responsibility. Just subbing him all the time isn't the answer is it? Surely he's going to have to try some other things. That's the job.

His only signing has been Etete.

Edit: we cross-posted. Just saw your answer re. Etete.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I suspect the manager's missed out on a number of striker targets and is now struggling to get anyone in, or perhaps he put too much faith in Etete before he was signed and is now discovering the player isn't yet ready for the Championship, or maybe both.

A couple of weeks ago, Morison bit a journalist's head off when he'd dared to suggest Etete might be one for the future. Morision steadfastly maintained the player wasn't 'a project' of any kind and was ready to go straight into the first team. I think perhaps he's found out since that isn't the case.

So if Etete isn't getting in or close to the starting 11 and Watters is up there on his own and getting 60 mins or thereabouts, why are we focusing on Watters and not Morison? That's the bit I don't get (I'm not singling you out by the way).

Any opposition manager seeing Watters starting will know exactly what to expect as the game progresses.

Is he deliberately torturing the lad or us? Or both? It's hard to tell.

[The Lone Gunman]

So if Etete isn't getting in or close to the starting 11 and Watters is up there on his own and getting 60 mins or thereabouts, why are we focusing on Watters and not Morison? That's the bit I don't get (I'm not singling you out by the way).

I think some of us are just baffled by regular claims by fellow fans (and his manager) that Watters has been doing a good job for the side so far this season. For instance, in the West Brom match thread, he was described by one fan as 'superb'. After the Birmingham game, Morison lost his rag with a journalist and said Watters had been 'unbelievable'. I just can't see it and I know others can't either.

It's a talking point, but it's only one of many this season.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I think some of us are just baffled by regular claims by fellow fans (and his manager) that Watters has been doing a good job for the side so far this season. For instance, in the West Brom match thread, he was described by one fan as 'superb'. After the Birmingham game, Morison lost his rag with a journalist and said Watters had been 'unbelievable'. I just can't see it and I know others can't either.

It's a talking point, but it's only one of many this season.

I get that. My theory that he's deliberately torturing the lad and us may well gain some traction too! :thumbup:

[splott parker]

James Crole couldn’t do any worse, he seems to know where the goal is. Does age matter? Only way for him to get experience is to give him ago, what’s to lose:shrug:

[Citizen's Nephew]

James Crole couldn’t do any worse, he seems to know where the goal is. Does age matter? Only way for him to get experience is to give him ago, what’s to lose:shrug:

Age shouldn't matter, full stop - either end of the spectrum. That's why I didn't like Morison backing himself into a corner. I agree with you about James Cole. It's time for some radical thinking. It's a very young side with no real experience anymore though. So that's a concern too. We don't have a healthy balance imo.

[Tuerto]

I don't think that Watters id up to championship level, but i'm looking at games and i can't see anyone in the midfield getting close to him, making him a focus, working space and angles for him. It's pretty damn sterile in a neat and tidy kind of way. The football is better, the intention is better, but there's no cutting edge in the midfield either. Those boys need to work harder to dominate in that area, play with more intent and force the opposition. Watters needs a goal from 2 yards, off his arse, anything, but the players in the midfield (due to tactics?) aren't creating an environment where a striker can prosper.

On the evidence of things, Watters aint no Championship player, although i do believe that he is still way to isolated, with the emphasis on creativity coming out wide, which isn't ideal for a striker in many cases.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I don't think that Watters id up to championship level, but i'm looking at games and i can't see anyone in the midfield getting close to him, making him a focus, working space and angles for him. It's pretty damn sterile in a neat and tidy kind of way. The football is better, the intention is better, but there's no cutting edge in the midfield either. Those boys need to work harder to dominate in that area, play with more intent and force the opposition. Watters needs a goal from 2 yards, off his arse, anything, but the players in the midfield (due to tactics?) aren't creating an environment where a striker can prosper.

On the evidence of things, Watters aint no Championship player, although i do believe that he is still way to isolated, with the emphasis on creativity coming out wide, which isn't ideal for a striker in many cases.

It's this kind of level-headed, footballing analysis that p*sses me right off. Where's the irrational, shoot-from-the-hip emotion? Read some of my posts for pro tips! :hehe:

[Tuerto]

It's this kind of level-headed, footballing analysis that p*sses me right off. Where's the irrational, shoot-from-the-hip emotion? Read some of my posts for pro tips! :hehe:

I agree with you. I look at it and it is better, but there's something missing. A player who stands out, takes that extra responsibility. It looks a bit robotic to me, over coached. Almost like a demonstration (not the ones you like) ojo showed some flair against Wba, but shit it against Bristol City, things got tough for him and he decided not to do anything about it. That really isn't acceptable.

[Mr Soul '68]

From WOL this evening: Quote from Steve Morison re signing a striker:

"Nothing, not a thing. Not for the want of trying or backing above. Like I've said to everyone who has asked me so far, I can't magic someone out of thin air," Morison said when asked about a striker search.

"What won't be happening is I won't be getting in a 32, 33, 34-year-old centre-forward just because it appeases everyone. It has to be the right player. Someone who will take us forward and help us progress.

"If that person doesn't arrive then people better back the people who are here because that's all we can do.

"Someone is going to have to become available for it to be possible. Because there are absolutely zero names, because everyone wants to talk about it, but no one has got a name or are bringing anything to the table!

"The recruitment team are working hard on it. But at the minute there is no one. There is no one there. I bet no one in here can give me a name. I'm not asking that to be funny. I'm being serious, everyone is saying to get someone...

"The board have been supportive on whatever we need to do and when we need to do it. Everyone has been brilliant. If there is someone on a free who hasn't had a club, they have missed 12 weeks of the season (and pre-season). It'll take them 12 weeks until they are up and running. But even then, there is no one who has jumped off the page."

Why does this ageist, newt-brained twat get a free pass? He's the guy in charge yet we're banging on about the players he's picking. The stats in the OP (let's just park the arguments for a moment) suggest Morison has no brain for this management game. He's way too predictable. Stubborn. Egotistical. He's not a very bright manager. He's proving that. During the close season so many said, he'll be judged by his team. This is his team.

And the Hughill thing. Let's conveniently forget some of the his *****-ups and just remember the good stuff. He huffed and puffed an awful lot under Morison and made some howlers too (but he runs a lot - the Cardiff way).

Sorry guys, but playing Watters up front on his own is the real madness. We had Mad Mick. We've got Mad Morison now. Continuously starting then hooking (let's face it) at the same f*cking time in each match.

Bristol City didn't bury all their chances on the weekend. They didn't need to. They had enough attacking options. We get all fired up about the 'one or two' chances we get not ending up in the back of the net and target the players all the time. That was a sh*t show yesterday. It's our percentage of chances that is shocking. It's f*cking disgracefully shocking (even when we put out the Real Madrid side against Norwich).

Read that quote and tell me you think he's got a grip, because I don't think he has or ever has.

I'm with you here. I'm in the 'glass half empty' as far as Morison is concerned. He makes all these signings over the summer, but forgets to pick up any decent strikers who can actually hit the back of the net. I'm not sure he is aware of the this fact, but goals win games. We'll struggle unless we pick up a couple of decent strikers on loan. That was clear after 90 minutes with our first game of the season

[Tuerto]

I'm with you here. I'm in the 'glass half empty' as far as Morison is concerned. He makes all these signings over the summer, but forgets to pick up any decent strikers who can actually hit the back of the net. I'm not sure he is aware of the this fact, but goals win games. We'll struggle unless we pick up a couple of decent strikers on loan. That was clear after 90 minutes with our first game of the season

He may have ****ed up with the striker situation, he may have gone for players who went elsewhere, he also may have thought that a different style and system with different players may have brought a more positive outcome with Watters and Harris. Who knows?

[Cyclops]

OK, so let's have a proper go.

Yes.

First of all, before I bother reading the rest of your post, why don't you explain the title of this thread - which I regard as inaccurate (for the reasons given) click-bait.

If you can't get your facts right to support what was the main point of your post, why should I dwell on anything else you write?

[Citizen's Nephew]

I agree with you. I look at it and it is better, but there's something missing. A player who stands out, takes that extra responsibility. It looks a bit robotic to me, over coached. Almost like a demonstration (not the ones you like) ojo showed some flair against Wba, but shit it against Bristol City, things got tough for him and he decided not to do anything about it. That really isn't acceptable.

I agree with you too.

That's the thing. I don't understand the striker situation. Morison, being an ex striker hasn't signed anyone so far in his time with us that has been of the calibre I'd expect. He seems to be flogging the Watters project even though it's not working. The football is robotic. That's a really good description, that, and overcoached. Two good descriptions. Wintle plays well at CSS but away from home not so much. What's that about? That's not Wintle. That's the team/management.

Subs are subs by numbers and we seem to have one way of playing but if that doesn't work we're f*cked because there'll be no radical changes made to suit the occasion.

People think I just hate on Morison when I say he's a stubborn so-and-so. I know we're only 5 games in but I just want to see some management. At the moment all I'm seeing Football Manager and team selection. Bristol was embarrassing. Not because it was a derby, but because we looked stale after only 5 games.

He'll say sh*t like "I can't score for them". I just wish he's say "I need to sort this. This is on me".

[Citizen's Nephew]

I'm with you here. I'm in the 'glass half empty' as far as Morison is concerned. He makes all these signings over the summer, but forgets to pick up any decent strikers who can actually hit the back of the net. I'm not sure he is aware of the this fact, but goals win games. We'll struggle unless we pick up a couple of decent strikers on loan. That was clear after 90 minutes with our first game of the season

I was just responding to Tuerto then read your post. The striker thing baffles me. If there was one area of the park I'd have expected him to get right, it would have been that. His comment about signing on a free is kind of weird too. Does he really think he has 12 weeks to get a player match fit for a 15 min cameo? It's all a bit weird.

[dml1954]

Seriously, all you lot need to take a chill pill. Five games into the new season and all the usual suspects are on this thread criticising the manager, players and anything that moves. If you cant see the improvement in personnel and the style of play this season, you are mad. Two games ago we were the best thing since sliced bread and going top. Now we are relegation fodder, the manager doesn’t know what he is doing and Watters is a donkey. Leave the player alone, he is a City player and deserves our support. The criticism of him is nothing short of disgraceful.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Seriously, all you lot need to take a chill pill. Five games into the new season and all the usual suspects are on this thread criticising the manager, players and anything that moves. If you cant see the improvement in personnel and the style of play this season, you are mad. Two games ago we were the best thing since sliced bread and going top. Now we are relegation fodder, the manager doesn’t know what he is doing and Watters is a donkey. Leave the player alone, he is a City player and deserves our support. The criticism of him is nothing short of disgraceful.

Quick question - do you think our attack is one of the best in the division?

[Cyclops]

I was just responding to Tuerto then read your post. The striker thing baffles me. If there was one area of the park I'd have expected him to get right, it would have been that. His comment about signing on a free is kind of weird too. Does he really think he has 12 weeks to get a player match fit for a 15 min cameo? It's all a bit weird.

Not when you factor in that SM left school with one GCSE.
(This is not in any way to belittle anyone who didn't emerge from school with qualifications - just a statement of fact)

[Citizen's Nephew]

Seriously, all you lot need to take a chill pill. Five games into the new season and all the usual suspects are on this thread criticising the manager, players and anything that moves. If you cant see the improvement in personnel and the style of play this season, you are mad. Two games ago we were the best thing since sliced bread and going top. Now we are relegation fodder, the manager doesn’t know what he is doing and Watters is a donkey. Leave the player alone, he is a City player and deserves our support. The criticism of him is nothing short of disgraceful.

Would you deny me one of the few pleasures still left?
Don't worry I'll say 12 hail Morison's and self-flaggelate before bed (that's just reminded me to clear my browsing history).

[Cyclops]

Would you deny me one of the few pleasures still left? https://www.ccmb.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5335551
Don't worry I'll say 12 hail Morison's and self-flaggelate before bed (that's just reminded me to clear my browsing history).

Whatever's happened to yer inverted commas and spelling, mush? :hehe:
And 'self' is superfluous.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Whatever's happened to yer inverted commas and spelling, mush? :hehe:
And 'self' is superfluous.

I've let myself go. :hehe:

[Cyclops]

I've let myself go. :hehe:

Get a grip, man!
You've been agreeing with all and sundry on here of late (even Tuerto, for goodness sake!)
MAN UP!

[NYCBlue]

So if Etete isn't getting in or close to the starting 11 and Watters is up there on his own and getting 60 mins or thereabouts, why are we focusing on Watters and not Morison? That's the bit I don't get (I'm not singling you out by the way).

Any opposition manager seeing Watters starting will know exactly what to expect as the game progresses.

Is he deliberately torturing the lad or us? Or both? It's hard to tell.

My guess is that Watters is fit. And as one professional centre-forward to another, I suppose Morrison sees something in him. His hands are tied anyway. I have no problem with the manager saying they should bury chances. That's just stating the obvious and manager speak. My main problem with the last few managers is not taking these derbies seriously. It's huge for the fans and it's probably pretty good for the squad too. I missed the first half on Saturday. I didn't even set my alarm. I woke up at 8am and watched the second half. It was ****ing dismal.

[Citizen's Nephew]

My guess is that Watters is fit. And as one professional centre-forward to another, I suppose Morrison sees something in him. His hands are tied anyway. I have no problem with the manager saying they should bury chances. That's just stating the obvious and manager speak. My main problem with the last few managers is not taking these derbies seriously. It's huge for the fans and it's probably pretty good for the squad too. I missed the first half on Saturday. I didn't even set my alarm. I woke up at 8am and watched the second half. It was ****ing dismal.

The derbies are a way of getting the place rocking and should be something to get excited about and not the damp squibs they've been (like yesterday). The Championship is supposed to be a tough league, but so far this season, the tough, hard football, seems to be in the PL. I haven't seen one Championship match or side that I've thought were that good or the football was anywhere close to being quality.

This makes the derbies even more important because as fans, even for neutrals, you'd expect to see some edge and passion. Yesterday, (Sunday) was another let down. Very sad to see and I felt sorry for our supporters (especially paying the prices Bristol City charged) but for the Bristol supporters, that was a great day. I wish we had some of those, especially at CSS.

Yeah, they should bury chances. Yeah, managers will always come out with this stuff so I too, can't complain about that. Bristol could have had a few more and we made them look amazing going forward.

The project Watters-on-his-own has to change though. It's not working for the team, the manager or the player.

Edit: I actually thought our opening performance against Norwich was really good and was buzzing for the next few matches. I think not fielding a strong side against Portsmouth in the cup was an error after the Reading loss. That was an opportunity missed in my view.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Not when you factor in that SM left school with one GCSE.
(This is not in any way to belittle anyone who didn't emerge from school with qualifications - just a statement of fact)

That is one more than Klopp and Pep got :thumbup:

[Bobby Dandruff]

Seriously, all you lot need to take a chill pill. Five games into the new season and all the usual suspects are on this thread criticising the manager, players and anything that moves. If you cant see the improvement in personnel and the style of play this season, you are mad. Two games ago we were the best thing since sliced bread and going top. Now we are relegation fodder, the manager doesn’t know what he is doing and Watters is a donkey. Leave the player alone, he is a City player and deserves our support. The criticism of him is nothing short of disgraceful.

This isn’t right (as usual). People have been stating that Watters isn’t good enough for quite a while.