View Full Version : All this talk of attendances
Eric the Half a Bee
01-09-22, 22:42
In 1962 we were relegated from Division 1. We've had two seasons in the top flight in the last 60 years.
Here's a list of all the clubs who have spent the same or more time than us in the top division since then.
Liverpool 61
Arsenal 61
Everton 61
Manchester United 60
Tottenham Hotspur 60
Chelsea 52
West Ham United 52
Manchester City 49
Aston Villa 49
Newcastle United 46
Southampton 46
Leicester City 36
Leeds United 35
West Bromwich Albion 34
Coventry City 34
Nottingham Forest 31
Stoke City 30
Sunderland 29
Norwich City 27
Wolverhampton Wanderers 27
Ipswich Town 25
Middlesbrough 24
Crystal Palace 23
Queens Park Rangers 23
Sheffield Wednesday 23
Derby County 22
Blackburn Rovers 22
Birmingham City 22
Fulham 22
Burnley 20
Sheffield United 18
Bolton Wanderers 17
Wimbledon 14
Watford 14
Charlton Athletic 12
Luton Town 11
Brighton & Hove Albion 10
Swansea City 9
Portsmouth 8
Wigan Athletic 8
Blackpool 7
Hull City 5
AFC Bournemouth 6
Bristol City 4
Huddersfield Town 4
Notts County 4
Reading 3
Oldham Athletic 3
Oxford United 3
Millwall 2
Bradford City 2
Brentford 2
51 clubs have spent at least or more time in the top division than us in 60 years. Yet our average attendance last season was better then 24 of those clubs.
Between 1962 and 2002, we were ranked 51st of all clubs in the football league on league position. Why on earth would we suddenly be expected to have huge crowds in the second tier when we won promotion in 2003?
I think our crowds are ok. As with most clubs of our size and league history, we get more nowadays when promotion is in the air and in the top division.
SLUDGE FACTORY
02-09-22, 07:56
In 1962 we were relegated from Division 1. We've had two seasons in the top flight in the last 60 years.
Here's a list of all the clubs who have spent the same or more time than us in the top division since then.
Liverpool 61
Arsenal 61
Everton 61
Manchester United 60
Tottenham Hotspur 60
Chelsea 52
West Ham United 52
Manchester City 49
Aston Villa 49
Newcastle United 46
Southampton 46
Leicester City 36
Leeds United 35
West Bromwich Albion 34
Coventry City 34
Nottingham Forest 31
Stoke City 30
Sunderland 29
Norwich City 27
Wolverhampton Wanderers 27
Ipswich Town 25
Middlesbrough 24
Crystal Palace 23
Queens Park Rangers 23
Sheffield Wednesday 23
Derby County 22
Blackburn Rovers 22
Birmingham City 22
Fulham 22
Burnley 20
Sheffield United 18
Bolton Wanderers 17
Wimbledon 14
Watford 14
Charlton Athletic 12
Luton Town 11
Brighton & Hove Albion 10
Swansea City 9
Portsmouth 8
Wigan Athletic 8
Blackpool 7
Hull City 5
AFC Bournemouth 6
Bristol City 4
Huddersfield Town 4
Notts County 4
Reading 3
Oldham Athletic 3
Oxford United 3
Millwall 2
Bradford City 2
Brentford 2
51 clubs have spent at least or more time in the top division than us in 60 years. Yet our average attendance last season was better then 24 of those clubs.
Between 1962 and 2002, we were ranked 51st of all clubs in the football league on league position. Why on earth would we suddenly be expected to have huge crowds in the second tier when we won promotion in 2003?
I think our crowds are ok. As with most clubs of our size and league history, we get more nowadays when promotion is in the air and in the top division.
We are not talking about huge crowds , we are talking about better crowds
I remember when we got promoted in 2003 and some of our most loyal fans were puzzled that for the opening game against Wycombe the season before we got 17000
After a fantastic season , which saw us promoted via the play offs with Andy Campbell and that fantastic day ......the buzz and excitement about this football club meant that our opening game against Bradford, in a higher division .......saw a crowd of 16000 ?
What is all that about ? You can bring out your stats till you are red in the face but it's that sort of damp squid that is a huge letdown for us and it's always been the way it is in this part of the world
We can pull big crowds from time to time but apart from our fantastic loyal hardcore our problem is we just don't have enough of these fans .
I am dying for us to take off and fulfill our undoubted potential but it's not going to happen in most of our lifetimes if history is anything to show by .
You literally have to drag and kick the public of South Wales to watch Cardiff City , its always been like this and its the same for club rugby etc
But big one off games ? And they are lining up
Hopefully things will change as we all support the same club but I just don't think they will .
What is all that about ? You can bring out your stats till you are red in the face but it's that sort of damp squid that is a huge letdown for us and it's always been the way it is in this part of the world
It's that damn damp squid's fault innit.
On a serious note, we only have to play Man U or Liverpool once in a while to show how many come out of the woodwork for the "big" games.
Moodybluebird
02-09-22, 08:24
It's that damn damp squid's fault innit.
On a serious note, we only have to play Man U or Liverpool once in a while to show how many come out of the woodwork for the "big" games.
The truth is many come just to see Man U and Liverpool not us.
superfeathers
02-09-22, 09:43
The truth is many come just to see Man U and Liverpool not us.
I'm not saying that the two are linked, but every time there's a post about the state of man utd or similar on here it becomes a 3-4 pager. As it used to be with Liverpool
SLUDGE FACTORY
02-09-22, 12:46
The truth is many come just to see Man U and Liverpool not us.
Tossers
From Cardiff too
Sewer rats
Tossers
From Cardiff too
Sewer rats
Sewer rats ?
They just support another team , no big deal is it ?
Not everyone in Cardiff is Welsh, the 2021 census tells us some 636,000 (over 21% )people living in wales were born in England, my wife included.
the other bob wilson
02-09-22, 13:19
Our average in our last Premier League season changed how I thought of our crowd potential. An average of 30,000 plus is impressive by the standards of all but the very best clubs and I freely admit that I was proved wrong when we consistently filled what i used to call “Tan’s Folly”. We’ve always been able to get, or had the potential to get, 40 to 60 thousand for the right opposition, but I really believe now that we could average that lower figure if our ground was big enough and our team was good enough.
Eric the Half a Bee
02-09-22, 13:20
Tossers
From Cardiff too
Sewer rats
You swear blind we're the only club that happens to.
In the last couple of decades, here's a list of clubs who can't be called PL regulars and the difference being in the PL has made to those clubs average attendances:
Derby: Dropped from 29k to 22k in 2 seasons after 7 seasons in the PL. Back up to 32k for 1 abysmal season then a drop after a few seasons of around 9k, followed by a rise of 6k when the team were chasing promotion back to the top division.
Watford: Up to 18.5k for their 2 lone seasons in the early 2000s and down to less than 13k 5 years later. Promotion added 4k to the crowd they had during their promotion season, presumably to capacity.
Swansea: Gained 4k to capacity after promotion. Lost more than that within 2 seasons of relegation.
Sunderland: From 46k in 2002 they lost 7k during relegation a year later and lost more than 10k again for two seasons in the Championship. Back up to as much as 43k for the 10 seasons they were in the Prem, losing 16k of them by the time they dropped to League 1.
Sheff Utd: Added around 5k when they've been promoted to the PL.
Middlesbrough: Averaged either side of 30k for the years they were in the PL. They lost 15k after 5 seasons in the Championship, went back to 30k for 1 season in the top division, then back to 19k within 3 seasons.
Hull City: Added around 7k to their attendances after promotion.
Huddersfield: Averaging around 13k for several seasons after promotion to the Championship, then 20k for their promotion season, 24k in the PL, now back to 17k.
Burnley: Averaged 12-13k for years in the Championship, then 20k in the PL. Relegation saw 4k disappear but immediate promotion saw those 4k return.
Blackpool: Averaged around 8k in 3 Championship seasons, 15k in the PL, dropping each season after relegation to 3.5k in League 2. Crowds now back up to 12k.
West Brom: Gained 6k after winning promotion in 2003. Slight dip after finishing 4th in the Championship but crowds have been consistent at around 24k. It should be noted they haven't finished lower than 4th in the Championship since 2001.
Wolves: Lost 9k from the PL in 2003 to Championship in 2007. A further promotion added 4k. The season they won the Championship they added 7k to their crowds and have had 31k regularly in the Prem.
Southampton: Regularly get 30k crowds in the PL, had dropped by 12k for their relegation season to League 1.
Forest have added 2k to their crowds this season.
Of course people want to watch the big teams. That's why the rest are trying to get into the PL, where the money is. As has been mentioned before, get rid of the big 6 and the PL is no longer anywhere near of the same interest to the general public. All clubs would suffer as a result.
Eric the Half a Bee
02-09-22, 13:22
Our average in our last Premier League season changed how I thought of our crowd potential. An average of 30,000 plus is impressive by the standards of all but the very best clubs and I freely admit that I was proved wrong when we consistently filled what i used to call “Tan’s Folly”. We’ve always been able to get, or had the potential to get, 40 to 60 thousand for the right opposition, but I really believe now that we could average that lower figure if our ground was big enough and our team was good enough.
I totally agree. We could get crowds of 40,000 if we stayed in the top division for a few seasons. I also believe that, if we had a decade in the top flight, we wouldn't see crowds drop as much when we were relegated. As it is, we don't do as badly as some "bigger name" clubs.
SLUDGE FACTORY
02-09-22, 14:57
Sewer rats ?
They just support another team , no big deal is it ?
It is to me if you don't care then you are either lying or you are daft
You walk around cardiff and see Liverpool tops and it doesn't bother you ?
I think you are lying
Not everyone in Cardiff is Welsh, the 2021 census tells us some 636,000 (over 21% )people living in wales were born in England, my wife included.
That could be applied to every city , not everyone in Southampton is English but they support their team , as they do in Derby
Do you think in Southampton , Derby you can see locals walking up and down their main street in Liverpool tops ?
Don't be daft , this isn't a big football city and never has been
SLUDGE FACTORY
02-09-22, 14:57
I totally agree. We could get crowds of 40,000 if we stayed in the top division for a few seasons. I also believe that, if we had a decade in the top flight, we wouldn't see crowds drop as much when we were relegated. As it is, we don't do as badly as some "bigger name" clubs.
You should work in advertising or public relations
Eric the Half a Bee
02-09-22, 20:16
That could be applied to every city , not everyone in Southampton is English but they support their team , as they do in Derby
Do you think in Southampton , Derby you can see locals walking up and down their main street in Liverpool tops ?
I've stayed in Southampton and yes, I've seen people walking about in the usual Man Utd, Liverpool etc kits. Perhaps they were Mancs and Scousers on holiday. I've seen them in Walsall, where my sister lives and I visit a few times a year.
SLUDGE FACTORY
02-09-22, 21:38
I've stayed in Southampton and yes, I've seen people walking about in the usual Man Utd, Liverpool etc kits. Perhaps they were Mancs and Scousers on holiday. I've seen them in Walsall, where my sister lives and I visit a few times a year.
Course you have
Plastic supporters live all over the country but here we are over run with them
A gas fitter popped round to put a new boiler in ......man United fan .....goes 5 or 6 times a season ......never been to see Cardiff City .....lives in Canton, mile from out ground
Last week sold a load of cds on Facebook, fella who bought them .....man United fan from Tonyrefail.......taken by his dad to watch Cardiff .......not really interested
South Wales is fecking pathetic and its not success that stops us ......its the fact that most people just ain't interested and a lot of the other fans can't be bothered
Eric the Half a Bee
02-09-22, 21:57
Course you have
Plastic supporters live all over the country but here we are over run with them
A gas fitter popped round to put a new boiler in ......man United fan .....goes 5 or 6 times a season ......never been to see Cardiff City .....lives in Canton, mile from out ground
Last week sold a load of cds on Facebook, fella who bought them .....man United fan from Tonyrefail.......taken by his dad to watch Cardiff .......not really interested
South Wales is fecking pathetic and its not success that stops us ......its the fact that most people just ain't interested and a lot of the other fans can't be bothered
Most big cities in the UK have these glory hunters; football only matters to them if they're "supporting" the "best" team.
I know you hate the Premier League. I know you'd get rid of the big sides. That record has been played so often the grooves have been worn thin.
Whether you like it or not, people across the UK would happily shell out lots of money to watch Premier League football. Cardiff City is barely any different to any other side in that we get the big crowds for big games, PL seasons and seasons where promotion is in the offering. Moan as much as you want, that's the way it is. You might not like it, but it might be easier for your blood pressure to accept it.
SLUDGE FACTORY
03-09-22, 08:58
Most big cities in the UK have these glory hunters; football only matters to them if they're "supporting" the "best" team.
I know you hate the Premier League. I know you'd get rid of the big sides. That record has been played so often the grooves have been worn thin.
Whether you like it or not, people across the UK would happily shell out lots of money to watch Premier League football. Cardiff City is barely any different to any other side in that we get the big crowds for big games, PL seasons and seasons where promotion is in the offering. Moan as much as you want, that's the way it is. You might not like it, but it might be easier for your blood pressure to accept it.
Most cities have some glory seekers but this part of the world is astonishing.
If Cardiff is like these other cities why do places like Derby and Portsmouth have more people supporting their teams than we do
In Derby most people support their local team . Round here the biggest supported team is not Cardiff , it's man United followed by Liverpool.
Cardiff is a bigger city than Derby, a bigger city than Portsmouth and also has a bigger catchment area than both these cities
We have Swansea 40 miles one way and Bristol 40 miles the other way
Derby have forest , Sheffield, Stoke nearby
Derby are a division below us but getting far bigger crowds
Portsmouth likewise
It's a bit of an embarrassment really and always has been . You might not care and not be bothered but I am .
Jordi Culé
03-09-22, 09:39
Most cities have some glory seekers but this part of the world is astonishing.
If Cardiff is like these other cities why do places like Derby and Portsmouth have more people supporting their teams than we do
In Derby most people support their local team . Round here the biggest supported team is not Cardiff , it's man United followed by Liverpool.
Cardiff is a bigger city than Derby, a bigger city than Portsmouth and also has a bigger catchment area than both these cities
We have Swansea 40 miles one way and Bristol 40 miles the other way
Derby have forest , Sheffield, Stoke nearby
Derby are a division below us but getting far bigger crowds
Portsmouth likewise
It's a bit of an embarrassment really and always has been . You might not care and not be bothered but I am .
I'm never sure why it winds you up as much as it does?
Chill butt.
It'll always will be and historically City's crowds are a lot bigger than they've been over the last 50 years (I think)?
Canton Kev
03-09-22, 11:31
Most cities have some glory seekers but this part of the world is astonishing.
If Cardiff is like these other cities why do places like Derby and Portsmouth have more people supporting their teams than we do
In Derby most people support their local team . Round here the biggest supported team is not Cardiff , it's man United followed by Liverpool.
Cardiff is a bigger city than Derby, a bigger city than Portsmouth and also has a bigger catchment area than both these cities
We have Swansea 40 miles one way and Bristol 40 miles the other way
Derby have forest , Sheffield, Stoke nearby
Derby are a division below us but getting far bigger crowds
Portsmouth likewise
It's a bit of an embarrassment really and always has been . You might not care and not be bothered but I am .
Longer top flight stay = bigger crowds. Simple stuff.
We’ve had 2 seasons in the last 60 in the top flight.
In the last 40 years we’ve spent as much time in the bottom 2 tiers as we have the top 2 tiers.
Derby and Portsmouth aren’t comparable to us. They’re much bigger teams with more success.
Eric the Half a Bee
03-09-22, 11:34
Most cities have some glory seekers but this part of the world is astonishing.
If Cardiff is like these other cities why do places like Derby and Portsmouth have more people supporting their teams than we do
In Derby most people support their local team . Round here the biggest supported team is not Cardiff , it's man United followed by Liverpool.
Cardiff is a bigger city than Derby, a bigger city than Portsmouth and also has a bigger catchment area than both these cities
We have Swansea 40 miles one way and Bristol 40 miles the other way
Derby have forest , Sheffield, Stoke nearby
Derby are a division below us but getting far bigger crowds
Portsmouth likewise
It's a bit of an embarrassment really and always has been . You might not care and not be bothered but I am .
I really don't give a rat's arse about catchment area. That's no guide on how many fans you'd expect. Blackburn Rovers won the league and regularly had crowds of 25k in the PL, yet Blackburn is a tiny place. Similarly (and I know this is highly unlikely), but suppose we had some mega wealthy owners who invested in us like happened at Chelsea and Man City, where we were challenging for PL honours, we'd sell out the Millennium Stadium. People latch on to success. That's far more relevant when talking about crowds than sodding catchment areas.
It's not rocket science. The more successful a club is, the more people want to watch them. More people will watch a club in the Premier League than anywhere else, this happens at virtually every club bar a few, because they want to watch bigger sides. More people will want to watch a side challenging for promotion than a side in mid table.
Let's examine Derby and Portsmouth.
Derby have spent all bar 5 seasons inside the top 2 divisions. They've spent 65 seasons in the top flight. They've won the league in living memory. Since the move to their new stadium in 1997, they've had 32k capacity in the PL and anything between 23-29k in the Championship. They've been far more successful than us over the last 50 years. I totally understand why they get bigger crowds. They didn't spend nearly 2 decades struggling in the bottom 2 divisions.
This is the point you totally fail to get. Successful clubs get more fans. It develops a culture. There's a big correlation between sides that spend more time in the PL and having the biggest crowds. Call it glory hunting if you want. Catchment area doesn't come into it. To me, catchment area is just potential.
Portsmouth haven't getting bigger crowds than us. They have only once had a bigger average attendance than us since we moved to the Cardiff City stadium, in 2016/17 when we had Russell Slade and their average was 268 better than ours. We're also getting better crowds than them in the league this season on average.
There are three clubs in South Wales all within 50 miles of one another. Three unfashionable, unsuccessful clubs with a combined 26 seasons in the top division over the last 100 years or so. Rarely on TV until the last 10 years, not even that well covered by local media. Add to that, our "large catchment area" and the relatively low socioeconomic standard of its residents, for much of the 20th century attending games would have been something of a luxury for many. Is it any wonder so many choose the easy option? I'm not defending it. I don't care for it. But within reason, (ie other than referring to yourself Manc or a Scouser) is it anything to be that ashamed of or to get so het up about?
SLUDGE FACTORY
03-09-22, 13:47
I really don't give a rat's arse about catchment area. That's no guide on how many fans you'd expect. Blackburn Rovers won the league and regularly had crowds of 25k in the PL, yet Blackburn is a tiny place. Similarly (and I know this is highly unlikely), but suppose we had some mega wealthy owners who invested in us like happened at Chelsea and Man City, where we were challenging for PL honours, we'd sell out the Millennium Stadium. People latch on to success. That's far more relevant when talking about crowds than sodding catchment areas.
It's not rocket science. The more successful a club is, the more people want to watch them. More people will watch a club in the Premier League than anywhere else, this happens at virtually every club bar a few, because they want to watch bigger sides. More people will want to watch a side challenging for promotion than a side in mid table.
Let's examine Derby and Portsmouth.
Derby have spent all bar 5 seasons inside the top 2 divisions. They've spent 65 seasons in the top flight. They've won the league in living memory. Since the move to their new stadium in 1997, they've had 32k capacity in the PL and anything between 23-29k in the Championship. They've been far more successful than us over the last 50 years. I totally understand why they get bigger crowds. They didn't spend nearly 2 decades struggling in the bottom 2 divisions.
This is the point you totally fail to get. Successful clubs get more fans. It develops a culture. There's a big correlation between sides that spend more time in the PL and having the biggest crowds. Call it glory hunting if you want. Catchment area doesn't come into it. To me, catchment area is just potential.
Portsmouth haven't getting bigger crowds than us. They have only once had a bigger average attendance than us since we moved to the Cardiff City stadium, in 2016/17 when we had Russell Slade and their average was 268 better than ours. We're also getting better crowds than them in the league this season on average.
If you genuinely believe that Cardiff City could fill the 74000 capacity stadium for a football match you are mentally unsound and need to go and see your doctor
You head has fried
Most cities have some glory seekers but this part of the world is astonishing.
If Cardiff is like these other cities why do places like Derby and Portsmouth have more people supporting their teams than we do
In Derby most people support their local team . Round here the biggest supported team is not Cardiff , it's man United followed by Liverpool.
Cardiff is a bigger city than Derby, a bigger city than Portsmouth and also has a bigger catchment area than both these cities
We have Swansea 40 miles one way and Bristol 40 miles the other way
Derby have forest , Sheffield, Stoke nearby
Derby are a division below us but getting far bigger crowds
Portsmouth likewise
It's a bit of an embarrassment really and always has been . You might not care and not be bothered but I am .
Kids growing up in the 80’s or 90’s didn’t really look at us and think I know I’ll follow that club, a big crowd was 5000 in the fourth division and one of the most notorious hooligan followings around, hardly appealing unless you like a bit of the rough stuff?
South Wales is also a poor area, people here like to associate themselves with something good to feel good maybe? I can’t relate to this bizarreness but it’s just the way it is sludge. The club now still overlook a city with a population of around 400,000 and look to the valleys for more support, something I just can’t fathom. Particularly as there are plenty of people with money in cardiff who currently don’t give us a look despite kids loving football, and football isn’t a cheap day out like it was once yesteryear….Like said in this thread we need a good 7-10 years in the PL and we might change that gene pool forever
Eric the Half a Bee
03-09-22, 21:00
If you genuinely believe that Cardiff City could fill the 74000 capacity stadium for a football match you are mentally unsound and need to go and see your doctor
You head has fried
I said that if we were regular PL title challengers we would, and do you know why? We'd be the team that glory hunters from around the UK would want to see. Would Chelsea sellout Stamford Bridge every season if they weren't up there challenging?
Eric the Half a Bee
03-09-22, 21:12
Kids growing up in the 80’s or 90’s didn’t really look at us and think I know I’ll follow that club, a big crowd was 5000 in the fourth division and one of the most notorious hooligan followings around, hardly appealing unless you like a bit of the rough stuff?
Precisely. While we were in the bottom 2 divisions, Derby spent 10 seasons in the top division, yet Sludge thinks we should have better attendances than them.
Course you have
Plastic supporters live all over the country but here we are over run with them
A gas fitter popped round to put a new boiler in ......man United fan .....goes 5 or 6 times a season ......never been to see Cardiff City .....lives in Canton, mile from out ground
Last week sold a load of cds on Facebook, fella who bought them .....man United fan from Tonyrefail.......taken by his dad to watch Cardiff .......not really interested
South Wales is fecking pathetic and its not success that stops us ......its the fact that most people just ain't interested and a lot of the other fans can't be bothered
It’s a bit mad to care this much about what football team a stranger supports, it’s so unimportant, just let people enjoy things
William Treseder
04-09-22, 16:57
It’s a bit mad to care this much about what football team a stranger supports, it’s so unimportant, just let people enjoy things
It’s not mad when the thread is all about attendances 😂
For what it’s worth, i agree with Sludge. More glory hunters here than any other part of the UK, apart from maybe plastic Old firm fans up in Scotland.
The Lone Gunman
04-09-22, 17:01
More glory hunters here than any other part of the UK, apart from maybe plastic Old firm fans up in Scotland.
How do you know this?
William Treseder
04-09-22, 17:03
How do you know this?
You only have to visit a pub in Cardiff when Man U are playing Liverpool.
A few continuous seasons in the Premier league will see some plastics and their kids turn into City fans.
If we're only there for one season then kids will pester their dad's to take them to the odd big game, but after a few seasons that will turn into wanting to watch us week in week out and not the opposition.
William Treseder
04-09-22, 17:17
Back in 2008, i went into the Victoria Park boozer in Canton on the Saturday of FA cup semi final weekend. I asked the landlord if he’d put the Pompey/West Brom game on, as i thought most punters in there would have been interested in to see who are our potential final opponents would be if we were to get past Barnsley the following day.
He said ‘sorry mate, they are all in here for the Man U game. Then i noticed all the red tops!
William Treseder
04-09-22, 17:22
Back in 2008, i went into the Victoria Park boozer in Canton on the Saturday of FA cup semi final weekend. I asked the landlord if he’d put the Pompey/West Brom game on, as i thought most punters in there would have been interested in to see who are our potential final opponents would be if we were to get past Barnsley the following day.
He said ‘sorry mate, they are all in here for the Man U game. Then i noticed all the red tops!
Thinking back now, it may have been a Liverpool game.
The Lone Gunman
04-09-22, 19:31
You only have to visit a pub in Cardiff when Man U are playing Liverpool.
So how many pubs in how many other towns or cities have you visited when Man U are playing Liverpool?
William Treseder
04-09-22, 22:09
So how many pubs in how many other towns or cities have you visited when Man U are playing Liverpool?
You’re an economical poster who picks his threads carefully. You are gambling that i haven’t been to many other areas of the UK to back up my claim. Off the top of my head, i’ve worked in Redruth, Torquay, Plymouth, Pimlico, Salford, Mansfield and Macclesfield, and whilst i don’t claim to have watched a Liverpool or Man U game in all of those places, (i usually just go for a beer and watch any game that happens to be on, and chat to locals) i’d confidently predict that there are more “plastics” in Cardiff than any other area of the UK, with as i said earlier, the possible exception of Scotland
I’ve obviously no way of proving it. It’s my educated guess. Do you disagree?
Eric the Half a Bee
04-09-22, 22:26
You’re an economical poster who picks his threads carefully. You are gambling that i haven’t been to many other areas of the UK to back up my claim. Off the top of my head, i’ve worked in Redruth, Torquay, Plymouth, Pimlico, Salford, Mansfield and Macclesfield, and whilst i don’t claim to have watched a Liverpool or Man U game in all of those places, (i usually just go for a beer and watch any game that happens to be on, and chat to locals) i’d confidently predict that there are more “plastics” in Cardiff than any other area of the UK, with as i said earlier, the possible exception of Scotland
I’ve obviously no way of proving it. It’s my educated guess. Do you disagree?
I'm of the impression and opinion that big sides, like Liverpool, Man Utd, will always draw people to pubs to watch them. It's one of the things Sky relies on, given the amount it charges pubs to show games. I can't ever remember being in a pub outside of Cardiff where a City game has been on the TV and there have been lots watching.
The Lone Gunman
05-09-22, 05:40
Off the top of my head, i’ve worked in Redruth, Torquay, Plymouth, Pimlico, Salford, Mansfield and Macclesfield, and whilst i don’t claim to have watched a Liverpool or Man U game in all of those places, (i usually just go for a beer and watch any game that happens to be on, and chat to locals) i’d confidently predict that there are more “plastics” in Cardiff than any other area of the UK, with as i said earlier, the possible exception of Scotland. I’ve obviously no way of proving it. It’s my educated guess. Do you disagree?
So you’ve moved from boldly stating there are more ‘plastics’ in Cardiff than any other area of the UK to confidently predicting that is the case based on your very limited experience.
I’ve only ever worked in one other UK city and that’s Southampton. On one of my visits, I spent an evening in a big city centre pub watching one of Liverpool’s midweek European games. The place was rammed, with many of those present wearing Liverpool shirts. This surprised me a little as Southampton has its own Premier League team.
Unlike you, I wouldn’t presume that Cardiff has more ‘plastics’ than any other area of the UK until such a time as I’d visited pubs in a variety of places while big games involving the top teams were taking place.
It’s not mad when the thread is all about attendances 😂
For what it’s worth, i agree with Sludge. More glory hunters here than any other part of the UK, apart from maybe plastic Old firm fans up in Scotland.
LOB i live in Ipswich, support for them in the town is great atm because they are on a good run and top of the league but most people i know in the area support one of the big clubs and you see as many Chelsea/Arsenal/Man u/ Liverpool etc tops around town as Town tops local pubs with Sky always have plenty of the above watching the games at said pubs
Example my partner has three sons two support Chelsea one Arsenal. golfing mates Spurs/chelsea etc Son in law the live in Wickford Arsenal fans him and the grandsons other son in law lives in Frinton via Romford Chelsea fans.
its NOT Cardiff/ South Wales thing its nationwide and as Eric must be fed up with saying by now if we were successful at the top of the premier league we would attract said fans Mn City are starting to build that sort of plastic additional fan profile but even for them it taken a while to get there.
Bruce Parry
05-09-22, 06:16
Unless you live within a mile of Sloper Road, you’re a plastic to someone. Who cares?
Is living in Cwmbran and supporting Liverpool any different to living in Cwmbran and supporting City?
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 08:23
Unless you live within a mile of Sloper Road, you’re a plastic to someone. Who cares?
Is living in Cwmbran and supporting Liverpool any different to living in Cwmbran and supporting City?
Clearly yes
The cwmbran or Maesteg ccfc fan is travelling 30 miles to watch football at what is their nearest club
The Liverpool fan in cwmbran is generally not bothering with watching Cardiff, watching Liverpool on the TV or popping up to a field 170 miles a few times a season
It's a world of difference
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 08:24
LOB i live in Ipswich, support for them in the town is great atm because they are on a good run and top of the league but most people i know in the area support one of the big clubs and you see as many Chelsea/Arsenal/Man u/ Liverpool etc tops around town as Town tops local pubs with Sky always have plenty of the above watching the games at said pubs
Example my partner has three sons two support Chelsea one Arsenal. golfing mates Spurs/chelsea etc Son in law the live in Wickford Arsenal fans him and the grandsons other son in law lives in Frinton via Romford Chelsea fans.
its NOT Cardiff/ South Wales thing its nationwide and as Eric must be fed up with saying by now if we were successful at the top of the premier league we would attract said fans Mn City are starting to build that sort of plastic additional fan profile but even for them it taken a while to get there.
The attendances at Ipswich Town compared to Cardiff city are evidence that despite cardiff being far larger , more local people in Ipswich support their club
Simple as that
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 08:27
So you’ve moved from boldly stating there are more ‘plastics’ in Cardiff than any other area of the UK to confidently predicting that is the case based on your very limited experience.
I’ve only ever worked in one other UK city and that’s Southampton. On one of my visits, I spent an evening in a big city centre pub watching one of Liverpool’s midweek European games. The place was rammed, with many of those present wearing Liverpool shirts. This surprised me a little as Southampton has its own Premier League team.
Unlike you, I wouldn’t presume that Cardiff has more ‘plastics’ than any other area of the UK until such a time as I’d visited pubs in a variety of places while big games involving the top teams were taking place.
For many years I thought Cardiff was a big club . I had several hilarious debates with prominent ccfc fans , including you , who explained the truth to me
I once thought ccfc were a bigger club than Sheffield Wednesday and called their supporters.......novelty fans
It was a joke between us for some time on here afterwards
It seems now you have changed your tune
There we go
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 08:29
Back in 2008, i went into the Victoria Park boozer in Canton on the Saturday of FA cup semi final weekend. I asked the landlord if he’d put the Pompey/West Brom game on, as i thought most punters in there would have been interested in to see who are our potential final opponents would be if we were to get past Barnsley the following day.
He said ‘sorry mate, they are all in here for the Man U game. Then i noticed all the red tops!
That's Cardiff and South Wales for you
Big game fans
Complete joke
Canton Kev
05-09-22, 09:54
The attendances at Ipswich Town compared to Cardiff city are evidence that despite cardiff being far larger , more local people in Ipswich support their club
Simple as that
Ipswich had smaller crowds than us in their last few Championship seasons. Now they’re top of the table and people are turning up.
Success = bigger crowds.
Der Kaiser
05-09-22, 10:08
You only have to visit a pub in Cardiff when Man U are playing Liverpool.
Try living in London if you think South Wales has a plastic fan problem.
Der Kaiser
05-09-22, 10:12
No good comparing us to clubs like Derby, Portsmouth and even Ipswich who have rich histories. Their fan base was moulded decades ago, and others have said, our potential fan base decades ago had a 4th and 3rd division club more famous for its fans that the football team itself and we still haven't got rid of that reputation. Football is an expensive hobby, we are hardly an enticing outfit to support all apart from a handful of seasons in 50+ years.
We are well supported for an average football club.
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 10:29
Ipswich had smaller crowds than us in their last few Championship seasons. Now they’re top of the table and people are turning up.
Success = bigger crowds.
It's far smaller than Cardiff and our catchment area
It's like comparing Newport with Nottingham
Canton Kev
05-09-22, 10:58
It's far smaller than Cardiff and our catchment area
It's like comparing Newport with Nottingham
And their success is much greater than Cardiff's. European cup winners in the 80's and FA Cup winners in the 70's. Top flight winners in the 60's and runners up twice in the 80's and all with 18 continuous seasons in the top flight during that time.
Bruce Parry
05-09-22, 13:18
Clearly yes
The cwmbran or Maesteg ccfc fan is travelling 30 miles to watch football at what is their nearest club
The Liverpool fan in cwmbran is generally not bothering with watching Cardiff, watching Liverpool on the TV or popping up to a field 170 miles a few times a season
It's a world of difference
But the nearest club to Cwmbran is Cwmbran Town? Nearest to Maesteg would be Maesteg Park? They’re still bypassing their local club to support the larger, more successful club. It’s a silly issue to be so hung up on.
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 14:28
But the nearest club to Cwmbran is Cwmbran Town? Nearest to Maesteg would be Maesteg Park? They’re still bypassing their local club to support the larger, more successful club. It’s a silly issue to be so hung up on.
Cardiff City has been the dominant club in this part of the world and generally get support from South Wales, apart from Swansea
If you think people from South Wales supporting Cardiff City is the same as people from South Wales supporting the glamour clubs then I think you need to get down the doctors .
Der Kaiser
05-09-22, 14:33
Cardiff City has been the dominant club in this part of the world and generally get support from South Wales, apart from Swansea
If you think people from South Wales supporting Cardiff City is the same as people from South Wales supporting the glamour clubs then I think you need to get down the doctors .
But the point made is still as relevant as the point you are making.
You're comparing us to clubs who in comparison to city have rich histories, so they will naturally have better support. It's that simple, there aren't many clubs with as vanilla histories as us on the pitch that have sustained decent support.
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 14:34
But the point made is still as relevant as the point you are making.
You're comparing us to clubs who in comparison to city have rich histories, so they will naturally have better support. It's that simple, there aren't many clubs with as vanilla histories as us on the pitch that have sustained decent support.
No it isn't
Der Kaiser
05-09-22, 14:39
No it isn't
Yes it is, you are being ignorant of context and just spouting attendance numbers because you hate the big clubs so much and resent their impact on the city. The post above is also being ignorant, just I presume intentionally.
Yes it is, you are being ignorant of context and just spouting attendance numbers because you hate the big clubs so much and resent their impact on the city. The post above is also being ignorant, just I presume intentionally.
I agree with you, Sludge is Puerile on this subject, no point debating with him. One thing i will add, the people who support the big clubs in Cardiff or wherever aren't necessarily doing it at the expense of Cardiff City. Sludge seems to imply that these people make a choice over their local club or Liverpool etc. I don't think that they do. These people have never been City fans, it's not like they jumped ship.
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 17:24
I agree with you, Sludge is Puerile on this subject, no point debating with him. One thing i will add, the people who support the big clubs in Cardiff or wherever aren't necessarily doing it at the expense of Cardiff City. Sludge seems to imply that these people make a choice over their local club or Liverpool etc. I don't think that they do. These people have never been City fans, it's not like they jumped ship.
Oh yes they have
I and lots of other city fans know locals who are there for the big games , stick around for a season then go back to their sofas to watch Liverpool or united
Absolutely loads of big time Charlie's in South Wales
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 17:24
Yes it is, you are being ignorant of context and just spouting attendance numbers because you hate the big clubs so much and resent their impact on the city. The post above is also being ignorant, just I presume intentionally.
No I am not
Eric the Half a Bee
05-09-22, 17:28
Oh yes they have
I and lots of other city fans know locals who are there for the big games , stick around for a season then go back to their sofas to watch Liverpool or united
Absolutely loads of big time Charlie's in South Wales
And elsewhere but you won't have it. The more successful a side is, the more big time charlies it has following it. It isn't unique to Cardiff at all. You look at virtually any club outside of the top 6. Once they get relegated from the PL their crowds drop.
This has been done to death. You won't accept it.
Eric the Half a Bee
05-09-22, 17:29
But the point made is still as relevant as the point you are making.
You're comparing us to clubs who in comparison to city have rich histories, so they will naturally have better support. It's that simple, there aren't many clubs with as vanilla histories as us on the pitch that have sustained decent support.
Absolutely, and Sludge is one of the few who can't see it.
Canton Kev
05-09-22, 18:04
These are all the teams with between 10 and 30 seasons in the top flight. These are the sorts of teams we should be competing with for attendances. Many of them have much more recent top flight success too compared to our 2 seasons in the last 60 years. Fulham, Palace, Norwich, Ipswich and QPR for example.
30 - NOTTS COUNTY
28 - BLACKPOOL
27 - FULHAM
27 - NORWICH CITY
27 - IPSWICH TOWN
26 - CHARLTON ATHLETIC
23 - CRYSTAL PALACE
23 - QUEENS PARK RANGERS
22 - BURY
17 - CARDIFF CITY
16 - LUTON
14 - WIMBLEDON
14 - WATFORD
12 - OLDHAM ATHLETIC
12 - BRADFORD CITY
12 - GRIMSBY TOWN
Try living in London if you think South Wales has a plastic fan problem.
Quite a few people from all over the globe live in London, not to mention the 10 or so clubs…..
Eric the Half a Bee
05-09-22, 19:42
These are all the teams with between 10 and 30 seasons in the top flight. These are the sorts of teams we should be competing with for attendances. Many of them have much more recent top flight success too compared to our 2 seasons in the last 60 years. Fulham, Palace, Norwich, Ipswich and QPR for example.
30 - NOTTS COUNTY
28 - BLACKPOOL
27 - FULHAM
27 - NORWICH CITY
27 - IPSWICH TOWN
26 - CHARLTON ATHLETIC
23 - CRYSTAL PALACE
23 - QUEENS PARK RANGERS
22 - BURY
17 - CARDIFF CITY
16 - LUTON
14 - WIMBLEDON
14 - WATFORD
12 - OLDHAM ATHLETIC
12 - BRADFORD CITY
12 - GRIMSBY TOWN
See the list of teams I game in my opening post to see how many teams have spent longer in the top flight than us since we were relegated in the early 60s. For all talk of us being a sleeping giant, we've not really done that on the pitch.
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 20:56
Absolutely, and Sludge is one of the few who can't see it.
Loads can see the fact that people like you have always said WHEN we get into the championship watch us get big gates blah blah blah
Then when it doesn't happen out come the stats
Cardiff as a city has a history of not getting behind its football club
Dave Jones said he was disappointed with the support when he first came here . He was a miserable git but he was right .
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 20:58
And elsewhere but you won't have it. The more successful a side is, the more big time charlies it has following it. It isn't unique to Cardiff at all. You look at virtually any club outside of the top 6. Once they get relegated from the PL their crowds drop.
This has been done to death. You won't accept it.
Yes it is
Cardiff City have never been well supported by the South Wales public .
Eric the Half a Bee
05-09-22, 21:03
Yes it is
Cardiff City have never been well supported by the South Wales public .
In which case, virtually every club side has never been well supported by its own local people. Virtually all cities have their Liverpool, Man Utd glory hunters. We're no different.
Eric the Half a Bee
05-09-22, 21:06
Loads can see the fact that people like you have always said WHEN we get into the championship watch us get big gates blah blah blah
Then when it doesn't happen out come the stats
Cardiff as a city has a history of not getting behind its football club
Dave Jones said he was disappointed with the support when he first came here . He was a miserable git but he was right .
I never said when we got to the Championship we'd get big gates. After 18 years in the bottom divisions, anyone in their right mind wouldn't suggest we'd be selling out Ninian Park to play Rotherham, Bradford and Walsall. It was always going to take time.
Do you think that if, between 1985 and 2003 we'd have been a top half Premier League side instead of yo-yoing between the bottom two divisions, where when we were in what is now League 1, we never threatened a top half finish, we'd have better crowds now?
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 21:08
In which case, virtually every club side has never been well supported by its own local people. Virtually all cities have their Liverpool, Man Utd glory hunters. We're no different.
We have far more than most cities , the amount of supporters clubs running buses for the big clubs from South Wales is incredible
Eric the Half a Bee
05-09-22, 21:10
We have far more than most cities , the amount of supporters clubs running buses for the big clubs from South Wales is incredible
Do some stats on it before I believe you.
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 21:10
I never said when we got to the Championship we'd get big gates. After 18 years in the bottom divisions, anyone in their right mind wouldn't suggest we'd be selling out Ninian Park to play Rotherham, Bradford and Walsall. It was always going to take time.
Do you think that if, between 1985 and 2003 we'd have been a top half Premier League side instead of yo-yoing between the bottom two divisions, where when we were in what is now League 1, we never threatened a top half finish, we'd have better crowds now?
Marginally
It wouldn't have made much difference
People around here are so lethargic . It's the same with rugby to be fair ....big crowds for the internationals , vanish a week later
SLUDGE FACTORY
05-09-22, 21:12
Do some stats on it before I believe you.
I don't have to do that Liverpool, United, Leeds , Chelsea etc all have very active supporter groups locally
I think they are complete cocks mind but there you go
Eric the Half a Bee
05-09-22, 21:15
Marginally
It wouldn't have made much difference
Sorry, but you're talking utter bollocks here. Nonsense of the most nonsensical variety.
If we'd have been a top flight team for 20 years from 1985 fans would have been bursting into Ninian Park. We wouldn't have had our current stadium, it would have had a bigger capacity than our current ground holds now. We'd have grown a huge fan base of regulars that we failed to grow as Division 4 strugglers.
Lither_1927
05-09-22, 21:16
It’s a bit mad to care this much about what football team a stranger supports, it’s so unimportant, just let people enjoy things
Delmbox is Just another Nihistic consooooomer of football. The new breed unfortunately.
Bruce Parry
05-09-22, 21:19
Cardiff City has been the dominant club in this part of the world and generally get support from South Wales, apart from Swansea
If you think people from South Wales supporting Cardiff City is the same as people from South Wales supporting the glamour clubs then I think you need to get down the doctors .
But compared to the Welsh system or the lower leagues, Cardiff is a glamour club. If I was a season ticket holder at Penybont, I’d probably see a Bridgend based City fan as no better than a Cardiff based Liverpool fan. Where do you draw the line?
I don't have to do that Liverpool, United, Leeds , Chelsea etc all have very active supporter groups locally
I think they are complete cocks mind but there you go
I know this isn’t in any way an indicator but I honestly don’t think I’ve ever met a Chelsea or Leeds fan from here
Canton Kev
05-09-22, 21:22
Marginally
It wouldn't have made much difference
People around here are so lethargic . It's the same with rugby to be fair ....big crowds for the internationals , vanish a week later
They don't vanish after a week though when it comes to top flight football. We got 30k+ week in week out in the Premier League. Had we stayed up, we'd have got 30k+ week in week out again.
Eric the Half a Bee
05-09-22, 21:40
They don't vanish after a week though when it comes to top flight football. We got 30k+ week in week out in the Premier League. Had we stayed up, we'd have got 30k+ week in week out again.
Absolutely. It builds. Sludge still lives in the 80s. Ignore him.
Lither_1927
05-09-22, 21:44
I know this isn’t in any way an indicator but I honestly don’t think I’ve ever met a Chelsea or Leeds fan from here
I know a Chelsea and a Leeds fan from Cardiff. The Chelsea fan used to go to Stamford Bridge in the 80s.
+ the native hipster
06-09-22, 01:32
the 'match day experience' is so sanitised why would you bother? go round your mates in yer liverpoo top , pick up a slab for the price of 2 pints in most grounds, have a smoke, vape, biffta, a chat with a group of mates in the same place, a couple of doms at half time,be able to sing let him die with out fear of being reported to stuart and getting kicked out. just look at the crowd shots out side the big 6 ,all people of an age, local football is dying, bring out the welrod
SLUDGE FACTORY
06-09-22, 07:11
Absolutely. It builds. Sludge still lives in the 80s. Ignore him.
The jacks take the piss out of fans like you
I can't stand the jacks but they know what they are . Our lot push this big club nonsense . Its embarrassing.
SLUDGE FACTORY
06-09-22, 07:12
Jesus christ there are loads of Leeds fans in South Wales 😳
Tossers
SLUDGE FACTORY
06-09-22, 07:16
Absolutely. It builds. Sludge still lives in the 80s. Ignore him.
You are living in fantasy land . I thought we would be a big club if we got out of the lower divisions . Our support didn't hold up . Cardiff city fans are very fickle and always have been . We can get big support but it just doesn't stick around . I would love that to change . But I can't see it happening .
You are living in fantasy land . I thought we would be a big club if we got out of the lower divisions . Our support didn't hold up . Cardiff city fans are very fickle and always have been . We can get big support but it just doesn't stick around . I would love that to change . But I can't see it happening .
To be fair people don’t have money for everything, you’re clearly a die hard and have got a season ticket and might go away as well but we shouldn’t judge people if the want/need to spend their money on other things and not supporting a football club
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