View Full Version : Bagan
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sabri-lamouchi-urges-cardiff-city-26686445
He wont play him but he should get a long deal. Hes 22 ffs and we have no recognised LB.
North Cardiff Blue
13-04-23, 10:56
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sabri-lamouchi-urges-cardiff-city-26686445
He wont play him but he should get a long deal. Hes 22 ffs and we have no recognised LB.
What has he done to earn one?
No Manager has played him?
What has he done to earn one?
No Manager has played him?
Well Lamouchi has seen enough to think he warrants one but doesn't think he deserves a place at Lb or lwb before Romeo Ojo or Simpson.
the other bob wilson
13-04-23, 11:35
Well Lamouchi has seen enough to think he warrants one but doesn't think he deserves a place at Lb or lwb before Romeo Ojo or Simpson.
Exactly, you could argue that Lamouchi rates him as the sixth best left back/wing back at the club currently. I was just assuming he’d be released at the end of the season.
life on mars
13-04-23, 11:40
I have seen the lad at first hand (not via TV ) he has plenty of potential, wants to play , he judt needs experience, get nastier, consider his defence position from the wing back area all if which is a coaching development tasks . I'd give him a contract .. and question the coaching ?
I have seen the lad at first hand (not via TV ) he has plenty of potential, wants to play , he judt needs experience, get nastier, consider his defence position from the wing back area all if which is a coaching development tasks . I'd give him a contract .. and question the coaching ?
Not knocking you or your post, there's a bit of sense to it, but why do so many people on here think that coaching is the key to everything? It isn't, Players learn the fundamentals, understand positioning, tactics etc, but at some point progress and improvement has to come from within, there's no magic wand.
I'd guess the reason Lamouchi hasn't played him is because we're in a relegation fight and he doesn't want to bring in someone from the u21s who's barely played this season. He showed last season that he's capable of playing at this level, but perhaps with so little time left Lamouchi doesn't want to risk a player who's being brought up to speed
I'd guess the reason Lamouchi hasn't played him is because we're in a relegation fight and he doesn't want to bring in someone from the u21s who's barely played this season. He showed last season that he's capable of playing at this level, but perhaps with so little time left Lamouchi doesn't want to risk a player who's being brought up to speed
Only thing I can think of.
Does seem a little odd though considering the issues at left back this season and he hasn’t made the bench recently. Does seem like Lamouchi prefers experience at this time, like you said maybe because of the situation. I don’t think we plan how he would want either but horses for courses.
dembethewarrior
13-04-23, 18:06
Well Lamouchi has seen enough to think he warrants one but doesn't think he deserves a place at Lb or lwb before Romeo Ojo or Simpson.
Or perhaps because he's younger (I'll watch my words as we've had a 26 year old young player of the year unless my mind's playing tricks on me) he understands there's still time to develop him, and given his confidence issues he's not ready to throw him into the lineup and completely destroy him while his confidence may still be low. Perhaps he's "developing" him. Imagine that.
dembethewarrior
13-04-23, 18:08
Not knocking you or your post, there's a bit of sense to it, but why do so many people on here think that coaching is the key to everything? It isn't, Players learn the fundamentals, understand positioning, tactics etc, but at some point progress and improvement has to come from within, there's no magic wand.
Same as I was saying about Josh Murphy. At some point we have to stop blaming Warnock and realise that perhaps he didn't want it enough. Reading about Delle Alli in the press now, what a waste that potentially could be.
Rock_Flock_of_Five
13-04-23, 18:35
Not knocking you or your post, there's a bit of sense to it, but why do so many people on here think that coaching is the key to everything? It isn't, Players learn the fundamentals, understand positioning, tactics etc, but at some point progress and improvement has to come from within, there's no magic wand.
Excellent post!
Or perhaps because he's younger (I'll watch my words as we've had a 26 year old young player of the year unless my mind's playing tricks on me) he understands there's still time to develop him, and given his confidence issues he's not ready to throw him into the lineup and completely destroy him while his confidence may still be low. Perhaps he's "developing" him. Imagine that.
Has Bagan got confidence issues?
It certainly looked like Ojo did on Monday.
He looked a player completely shot of all confidence.
KingOfSiamIAm
13-04-23, 18:50
Exactly, you could argue that Lamouchi rates him as the sixth best left back/wing back at the club currently. I was just assuming he’d be released at the end of the season.
If, as you say, he so far back in the pecking order, could it be the case that the manager has said all this because he has no option but to play Bagan over the next few games? Saying such positives publicly as a motivational tool, especially after Bagan being no where near the first team.
We only have to look at the farcical events of the last game, where we had our right back starting at left back, getting exposed early on in the game, being shifted over to his usual position. Then hoping that Ojo can do some sort of miracle defensively on the left (because he is left footed!? Who knows what the thought process behind that was… other than desparation?
dembethewarrior
13-04-23, 19:03
Has Bagan got confidence issues?
It certainly looked like Ojo did on Monday.
He looked a player completely shot of all confidence.
If he's starting for the reserves and not the first team it can't be because of talent, because we know what he is capable of with a good run.
Any ideas what else it could be?
Excellent post!
Thing is, it aint scientific. All of us on here have seen enough football to know when a youngish player has something, Ramsey had that something, Earnie had that something (Although a bit unorthodox) Nathan Blake had that something, as did Joe Ledley and Chris Gunter to a lesser degree, although he had spades of character and a willingness to get involved, he was never afraid to make mistakes, he didn't hide, and look at the career he has had.
Point is, what those lads had couldn't be coached, they were on it, right from the start. Confidence and belief can over ride so many frailties, i'd say that all of the players i have mentioned (ishould have included Ralls) had that edge, belief, a willingness about them. It seems that Bagan may struggle with that, and maybe Colwill and Davies to a lesser degree. All three of them can play a bit, but coaching isn't going to give them what they need, they've been coached since they were 8 years old, they know the drill by now.
If he's starting for the reserves and not the first team it can't be because of talent, because we know what he is capable of with a good run.
Any ideas what else it could be?
I just think the last 3 managers dont rate him enough and prefer experience.
And its not going well. Monday in particular the LB/LWB situation was farcical.
If O Dowda is fit or even Ralls then id probably go with them. But I think Bagan has to be given a chance before the 3 who played there Saturday.
If, as you say, he so far back in the pecking order, could it be the case that the manager has said all this because he has no option but to play Bagan over the next few games? Saying such positives publicly as a motivational tool, especially after Bagan being no where near the first team.
We only have to look at the farcical events of the last game, where we had our right back starting at left back, getting exposed early on in the game, being shifted over to his usual position. Then hoping that Ojo can do some sort of miracle defensively on the left (because he is left footed!? Who knows what the thought process behind that was… other than desparation?
Given Bagan hasn't signed a new deal ("That's why we asked months ago, weeks ago, to sign a contract with him."), there's little point using him now if he's mentally out the door already.
I'd guess the reason Lamouchi hasn't played him is because we're in a relegation fight and he doesn't want to bring in someone from the u21s who's barely played this season. He showed last season that he's capable of playing at this level, but perhaps with so little time left Lamouchi doesn't want to risk a player who's being brought up to speed
I agree. Although Lamouchi didn't appear to realise how many first team games Bagan has played when he spoke about him today. He gave the impression that Bagan was an academy prospect who might break into the first team squad next year (not last year!).
It's too late to be giving people "chances". We have to field our strongest possible team. With as many players with a good head on their shoulders as possible.
If, as you say, he so far back in the pecking order, could it be the case that the manager has said all this because he has no option but to play Bagan over the next few games? Saying such positives publicly as a motivational tool, especially after Bagan being no where near the first team.
We only have to look at the farcical events of the last game, where we had our right back starting at left back, getting exposed early on in the game, being shifted over to his usual position. Then hoping that Ojo can do some sort of miracle defensively on the left (because he is left footed!? Who knows what the thought process behind that was… other than desparation?
Ojo played left wing back against Reading when O'Dowda went off. Me and Pont Blue pointed out that Lamouchi had messed up with a few things that night (we ended with 9 fit players too) but Sawyers' late winner stopped too many questions being asked. One of which would've been why haven't we got any cover at left back in the 18.
Philogene has done well as a wing back at home so far but one obvious problem has been that it means Romeo being left out. Monday gave a chance to play them both with a plan B that if Romeo couldn't cope as a left back then Philogene could move forward and Ojo fill in on the left again. Lamouchi's luck ran out this time though and now the questions are being asked.
Interesting that he's chosen now to big Bagan up and I think you've hit the nail on the head for the reasons behind that. He's realised he may have to call on him at some point soon. At least we'll have a decent option if we need to put an outfield player in goal again.
the other bob wilson
14-04-23, 06:43
If, as you say, he so far back in the pecking order, could it be the case that the manager has said all this because he has no option but to play Bagan over the next few games? Saying such positives publicly as a motivational tool, especially after Bagan being no where near the first team.
We only have to look at the farcical events of the last game, where we had our right back starting at left back, getting exposed early on in the game, being shifted over to his usual position. Then hoping that Ojo can do some sort of miracle defensively on the left (because he is left footed!? Who knows what the thought process behind that was… other than desparation?
It looks like O'Dowda will be okay for tomorrow and, hopefully, for the rest of the season. Despite my criticism of the manager for ignoring Bagan on Monday and my general championing of younger players, O'Dowda is the best left back/wing back option we have available at the moment and he has to start if fit.
KingOfSiamIAm
14-04-23, 08:30
It looks like O'Dowda will be okay for tomorrow and, hopefully, for the rest of the season. Despite my criticism of the manager for ignoring Bagan on Monday and my general championing of younger players, O'Dowda is the best left back/wing back option we have available at the moment and he has to start if fit.
While I agree with the points you make about O’Dowda, I think his better qualities are from a starting point further up the pitch. I would like to see him first and foremost creating attacking opportunities from that advanced starting point, and I think he has showed that he is mindful of his defensive responsibilities as well.
While not a fan of our Neil’s style of football, he always recognises the need, when necessary, to fit the round pegs into round holes when the square pegs don’t fit. I say that as a general comment about our squad as a whole, and not aimed at O’Dowda.
I just don't see what motivation Bagan has for signing a new deal with us.
He'd be better off looking to maybe drop a division to get game time and be back in the Championship in a few seasons.
I just don't see what motivation Bagan has for signing a new deal with us.
He'd be better off looking to maybe drop a division to get game time and be back in the Championship in a few seasons.
The times Ive seen him play - he looks decent enough - just needs game time - which he isnt going to get when we are in a fight to stay up. Needs a season long loan where he'll get lots of games in League 1
dembethewarrior
14-04-23, 11:12
The times Ive seen him play - he looks decent enough - just needs game time - which he isnt going to get when we are in a fight to stay up. Needs a season long loan where he'll get lots of games in League 1
I think he will be just fine being around the first team next season, on the bench as understudy to Jamilu Collins.
We can then push O'Dowda back up the pitch.
Only my way of thinking mind.
If O'Dowda isn't fit he should be paying.
Ralls isn't a lb, a lwb or anything other than a cm.
It feels like Lamouchi would sooner play anyone there than our only fit actual lb.
Feels like we are always trying to squeeze players in where they aren't suited.
If colwill, Davies and Bagan can't get in this team they may as well move on.
If O'Dowda isn't fit he should be paying.
Ralls isn't a lb, a lwb or anything other than a cm.
It feels like Lamouchi would sooner play anyone there than our only fit actual lb.
Feels like we are always trying to squeeze players in where they aren't suited.
If colwill, Davies and Bagan can't get in this team they may as well move on.
Ralls has been excellent last twice he’s played LWB recently while Bagan has looked nothing more than average in the U21 games I’ve seen.
I think he will be just fine being around the first team next season, on the bench as understudy to Jamilu Collins.
We can then push O'Dowda back up the pitch.
Only my way of thinking mind.
Footballers want to play - if he'd be content to sit on his arse picking up the pay, he can do one imo.
Collins is currently out injured, we loaned a shit LB from Everton and have put anyone at LB/LWB whilst not even putting Bagan on the bench.
So again, why would he want to stay when he can get regular game time even if at a lower level? He's at the age where he needs to be playing.
WJ99mobile
14-04-23, 17:14
If we stay up I hope he stays and gets a good run next year as I don’t think Campbell will ever come good.
Personally I don’t think he’s good enough defensively to make it at championship level but unless we give players chance to try we’ll end up doing what we always have done.
On the other hand if he does go I’d not be too concerned if Jamilu Collins showed the promise he originally did
WJ99mobile
14-04-23, 17:18
So again, why would he want to stay when he can get regular game time even if at a lower level? He's at the age where he needs to be playing.
Why doesn’t every premier league sub or reserve drop down to the championship?
Sometimes dropping down a league doesn’t work. There’s many who drop down and stay there.
If we stay up I hope he stays and gets a good run next year as I don’t think Campbell will ever come good.
Personally I don’t think he’s good enough defensively to make it at championship level but unless we give players chance to try we’ll end up doing what we always have done.
On the other hand if he does go I’d not be too concerned if Jamilu Collins showed the promise he originally did
Campbell is a right back (albeit not a very good one).
dembethewarrior
14-04-23, 18:22
Footballers want to play - if he'd be content to sit on his arse picking up the pay, he can do one imo.
Collins is currently out injured, we loaned a shit LB from Everton and have put anyone at LB/LWB whilst not even putting Bagan on the bench.
So again, why would he want to stay when he can get regular game time even if at a lower level? He's at the age where he needs to be playing.
If he's up to it, mentally, he can push Collins in training for a first team spot. Play cup games. Just what I'd do.
There is the option to loan him out which with the right club works. Also doesn't work end they sit on the bench there as well...as has happened with a few we've loaned out.
I'd rather him train with the first team and push for a starting place.
Like another poster said, there's only so much coaching you can do, either he's up for it or he's not. If he can't accept being second fiddle and motivate himself to fight for a first team place, then I'd let him go :thumbup:
If he's up to it, mentally, he can push Collins in training for a first team spot. Play cup games. Just what I'd do.
There is the option to loan him out which with the right club works. Also doesn't work end they sit on the bench there as well...as has happened with a few we've loaned out.
I'd rather him train with the first team and push for a starting place.
Like another poster said, there's only so much coaching you can do, either he's up for it or he's not. If he can't accept being second fiddle and motivate himself to fight for a first team place, then I'd let him go :thumbup:
Easy to say, more nuanced in real life.
He came in last season, had a purple patch f form - got dropped.
Been frozen out this season, with LB/LWB being a problem slot, not even featured on the bench.
Easy to say he should be motivated, difficult to motivate yourself when not getting a fair crack of the whip.
dembethewarrior
14-04-23, 19:39
Easy to say, more nuanced in real life.
He came in last season, had a purple patch f form - got dropped.
Been frozen out this season, with LB/LWB being a problem slot, not even featured on the bench.
Easy to say he should be motivated, difficult to motivate yourself when not getting a fair crack of the whip.
Perhaps he is getting a fair crack of the whip and he isn't taking it. What do we know.
If first team football can't motivate players, what will?
Sparticus_Mills
14-04-23, 23:13
I always thought Bagan looked decent in the U21 games I've watched, I Don't think he'd be out of place in the first team.
Rock_Flock_of_Five
14-04-23, 23:57
Bagan had to leave the pitch away to Bristol City early due to concussion.
However, just prior to that, Bristol had an attack down our left breaking towards our box - at that moment, Bagan caught my eye for all the wrong reasons. He was out of position, nowhere near the left flank where he should have been covering, but it was his effort, or lack of it, to get back which was worrying... he was ambling back.
I was thinking it was going to be a long afternoon for him, but then he gets injured shortly after.
Bald Barry Bastad
15-04-23, 08:41
I predict Bagan will be in the first team squad today.
Bald Barry Bastad
15-04-23, 10:40
I predict Bagan will be in the first team squad today.
Ok I was wrong. Getting desperate though. Jack Simpson!
Ok I was wrong. Getting desperate though. Jack Simpson!
Thought he did well when he came on against Sunderland
Bald Barry Bastad
15-04-23, 11:10
Thought he did well when he came on against Sunderland
Looking at lineup looks like he's playing CB and Ralls LB. It looks desperate but apart from Bagan I'm guessing there's not a lot more the manager can do.
Looking at lineup looks like he's playing CB and Ralls LB. It looks desperate but apart from Bagan I'm guessing there's not a lot more the manager can do.
I think Simpson is LB in a four with Ng at RB.
That’s the way the warm ups are going.
Maybe 4-3-1-2 with Philogene behind the top two.
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