Bundesliga 2

[Swiss Peter]

Might be on my own here, and mods please delete if so.

Opening weekend. HSV beat Schalke 5-3. St. Pauli win away at 1 FCK. Hertha continue their losing streak :frown:

[the other bob wilson]

Might be on my own here, and mods please delete if so.

Opening weekend. HSV beat Schalke 5-3. St. Pauli win away at 1 FCK. Hertha continue their losing streak :frown:

I’d be interested in this thread if it continued throughout the season - for a start, I’d find out who or what a 1 FCK is :hehe:

Think this is a very rare case where a thread on here should be moved to the main board mind.

[Swiss Peter]

I’d be interested in this thread if it continued throughout the season - for a start, I’d find out who or what a 1 FCK is :hehe:

Think this is a very rare case where a thread on here should be moved to the main board mind.

Kaiserslautern Bob. I called them that because someone replied to an earlier post about German football on here saying they were a big 1 FCK fan. Had to look it up myself. :hehe:

I think this league will be massive this year.

[JamesWales]

Well I promise to do my bit to keep it going!

[JamesWales]

Average crowds on opening weekend -28,000

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Have been over to see some German football (and keep meaning to again) and went to watch Kaiserslautern. Not much of a town but with a massive football ground on a hill. They were outplayed by Freiburg and at the end there was a kind of epilogue where the victors celebrated with their fans (including one of the players climbing the fence and shouting through a loudhailer) and the home team having to stand before their version of the Canton Stand possibly getting told off (I couldn't work it out). Sometimes a player will have to go and explain themselves. Incredible scenes.

[Swiss Peter]

Average crowds on opening weekend -28,000

Be interesting to compare that to our own 2nd level average this weekend. Thing is there are 7 teams at b2 level this year that have ground capacities of around 50k or higher!

[Swiss Peter]

Have been over to see some German football (and keep meaning to again) and went to watch Kaiserslautern. Not much of a town but with a massive football ground on a hill. They were outplayed by Freiburg and at the end there was a kind of epilogue where the victors celebrated with their fans (including one of the players climbing the fence and shouting through a loudhailer) and the home team having to stand before their version of the Canton Stand possibly getting told off (I couldn't work it out). Sometimes a player will have to go and explain themselves. Incredible scenes.

I hadn’t realised (until I looked just now!) how big their ground is. 50k!. Yeah I’ve seen that strange ritual between a losing team and their fans as well. Maybe something from Italian football?

[JamesWales]

Kasierslautern are an interesting club I think. Huge ground, massive support and hosted world cup games in 2006, but I don't think it's a big place at all. So perhaps comparable to Sunderland or Burnley or something (though a little bigger than Burnley).

[Taunton Blue Genie]

A few years ago, I flew over to Cologne and watched Duisburg on the Saturday afternoon in Bundesliga 2 and went straight from that game and by train to see Venlo in the Dutch Eredivisie. Stayed in Venlo overnight, travelled by train to watch Gladbach at home on the Sunday afternoon and went straight from there by train to see Düsseldorf's home ice hockey game.

[the other bob wilson]

A few years ago, I flew over to Cologne and watched Duisburg on the Saturday afternoon in Bundesliga 2 and went straight from that game and by train to see Venlo in the Dutch Eredivisie. Stayed in Venlo overnight, travelled by train to watch Gladbach at home on the Sunday afternoon and went straight from there by train to see Düsseldorf's home ice hockey game.

That set me thinking that it must be possible to watch three games in different countries on the same day in some parts of Europe (e.g. around Luxembourg)

[Hilts]

Why is this on the alt forum when weve got the main board spammed with threads like just stop oil.?

[Swiss Peter]

That set me thinking that it must be possible to watch three games in different countries on the same day in some parts of Europe (e.g. around Luxembourg)

Hard to beat TBG's example, but - not sure about a day, but you could comfortably do Basel, Strasbourg and Freiburg and take in top level football in 3 countries in a weekend!.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Hard to beat TBG's example, but - not sure about a day, but you could comfortably do Basel, Strasbourg and Freiburg and take in top level football in 3 countries in a weekend!.

You are assuming that all three games will be at home on the same weekend, old fruit :-)

[Taunton Blue Genie]

That set me thinking that it must be possible to watch three games in different countries on the same day in some parts of Europe (e.g. around Luxembourg)

I think 3 games in 3 countries on the same day would be difficult but visiting 4 top tier clubs from 4 different countries could be possible by driving fewer than 140 miles between the first and last of them:

FC Wiltz 71 (Luxembourg National League - and the most northerly team in that league)
Fortuna Sittard (Netherlands Eredivisie - the most southerly team in NL)
Eupen (Belgian Pro League - the most easterly team in BE)
Borrusia Mönchengladbach (Germany - and the nearest DE team to the above 3)

Attaching images (in this case in the form of a route I created) seems not to work lately.

This is not a million miles from some plans I had been thinking about.....

[the other bob wilson]

I think 3 games in 3 countries on the same day would be difficult but visiting 4 top tier clubs from 4 different countries could be possible by driving fewer than 140 miles between the first and last of them:

FC Wiltz 71 (Luxembourg National League - and the most northerly team in that league)
Fortuna Sittard (Netherlands Eredivisie - the most southerly team in NL)
Eupen (Belgian Pro League - the most easterly team in BE)
Borrusia Mönchengladbach (Germany - and the nearest DE team to the above 3)

Attaching images (in this case in the form of a route I created) seems not to work lately.

This is not a million miles from some plans I had been thinking about.....

Maybe three countries in a day is not practical then (although I think it probably could be done if you watched a minor league game in the morning in one of the countries).

Those four teams in a weekend would be on though, although, as you said, you'd probably have to wait a long time for the fixtures to fall in a way which would make it possible. I wonder how much interest there would be if the four clubs got together to try and arrange their fixtures so that you could watch football in four countries over the course of the weekend? Gladbach wouldn't need the extra fans that a well publicised scheme might generate, but I'd have thought that the other three would welcome it.

Also, a word to the Moderators, you really should move this thread on to the main board.

[Swiss Peter]

No one has mentioned the 'G' word in the B2 context yet, so it might as well be pointed out that the Hamburger SV man is already leading scorer (with 3 others mind) after match day 1 :-) .

I posted this thread here as wasn't sure if it might be considered a bit o/t, but - yeah - be good if it could be switched across to the main board as there does seem to be interest. Better than tracking Bayern win B1 again anyway :indifferent:

[Swiss Peter]

This can not be f*king real. Hertha lose to sodding Wehen Wiesbaden (who?) at home in the Friday match.

[the other bob wilson]

Interesting bottom three in the table currently. It's not unheard for sides to drop the top to the third tier in successive seasons is it, but it tends to be teams like Ingolstadt, Paderborn and Freiburg - I know Hertha have their financial issues, but they're on a different level from those sort of clubs aren't they?

Seems like the mods are determined to keep this thread on the non football page.

[Swiss Peter]

Interesting bottom three in the table currently. It's not unheard for sides to drop the top to the third tier in successive seasons is it, but it tends to be teams like Ingolstadt, Paderborn and Freiburg - I know Hertha have their financial issues, but they're on a different level from those sort of clubs aren't they?

Seems like the mods are determined to keep this thread on the non football page.

Hertha have been a club in disarray for a few years now (ever since the big investment to make them 'a club the capital city could be proud of'), but this is now a new low. Plenty of time to turn it around I guess. There are plans to move out of the Olympic stadium and to a ground of a more suitable size. If it happens that could be the catalyst to turn things around, but things continue to look grim at the moment.

[Swiss Peter]

Interesting bottom three in the table currently. It's not unheard for sides to drop the top to the third tier in successive seasons is it, but it tends to be teams like Ingolstadt, Paderborn and Freiburg - I know Hertha have their financial issues, but they're on a different level from those sort of clubs aren't they?

Seems like the mods are determined to keep this thread on the non football page.

Interesting fact from Hertha's first two games is that Coach Pal Dardai has had all of his 3 sons on the pitch together at times of the opening 2 games. Must be unusual (a first?) for 3 brothers to play at this kind of level together. Especially if their Dad is the coach!. Not that it has turned out well for them.

[The Lone Gunman]

Three goals in two games for Glatzel so far. 57,000 at Hamburg’s opening home game. Phenomenal support for a second tier club.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Three goals in two games for Glatzel so far. 57,000 at Hamburg’s opening home game. Phenomenal support for a second tier club.

Hamburg is a huge city

Newcastle , far smaller, get 50000 in second tier

[splott parker]

Kasierslautern are an interesting club I think. Huge ground, massive support and hosted world cup games in 2006, but I don't think it's a big place at all. So perhaps comparable to Sunderland or Burnley or something (though a little bigger than Burnley).

That’s a bit of a comparison, Sunderland & Burnley, about a 280,000 population to around about a 90,000 population. Sunderland isn’t that small.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Hamburg is a huge city

Newcastle , far smaller, get 50000 in second tier

I don't know how many clubs sv hamburg are competing with but there are

1. 8 million in Hamburg

2.8 urban area of Hamburg

5.1 million in Hamburg Metropolitan District

That's enormous and it's said we have a big catchment area

Which at 1 million I suppose we do but it's all relative

57000 for a second tier game needs to be considered in detail

[the other bob wilson]

Weekend results and there’s a link to the table (albeit after just two games) as well.

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/2bundesliga/matchday

A thank you to the mods for switching this thread :thumbup:

[Swiss Peter]

I see that a few of the B2 matches are being shown live on the Sky Sports App, including (for the Glatzel-watchers!) the next two Hamburger SV matches - Hertha at home a week on Saturday at 19.30, and Hannover away the following Saturday. Cup weekend this weekend.

[The Lone Gunman]

Great finish by Glatzel for his second in Hamburg's 5-3 victory over Schalke a couple of weeks ago. By contrast, his goal in the 2-2 draw at Karlsruhe last week just him and went in.

[Swiss Peter]

Great finish by Glatzel for his second in Hamburg's 5-3 victory over Schalke a couple of weeks ago. By contrast, his goal in the 2-2 draw at Karlsruhe last week just him and went in.

Hamburger SV v Hertha on Sky Sports App and Sky Sports YouTube at 19.30.

For anyone enjoying the atmosphere in the Bremen match last night, this should also be good - atmosphere wise if not in terms of the quality.

[The Lone Gunman]

Hamburger SV v Hertha on Sky Sports App and Sky Sports YouTube at 19.30.

Didn't see the game last night but just watched the highlights. Hamburg top the table (for now, three games being played today) after a comprehensive 3-0 victory. Another goal and an assist for Glatzel. He now has five goals in four league and cup games this season.

Meanwhile, Hertha are rock bottom of the league after three defeats. They haven't even scored a goal yet.

[Swiss Peter]

Didn't see the game last night but just watched the highlights. Hamburg top the table (for now, three games being played today) after a comprehensive 3-0 victory. Another goal and an assist for Glatzel. He now has five goals in four league and cup games this season.

Meanwhile, Hertha are rock bottom of the league after three defeats. They haven't even scored a goal yet.

I watched all of it, and it did nothing to change my long-held view that the Championship is a stronger league - but that may just have been because Hertha were so shockingly bad!

[JamesWales]

I watched all of it, and it did nothing to change my long-held view that the Championship is a stronger league - but that may just have been because Hertha were so shockingly bad!

I think in terms of the pyramid of football, then English Football (and Welsh!) is the highest standard there is really. There can't be much in it between us and the 2. Bundesliga mind. After that I think German football does drop off a bit. It is heavily regionalised from tier 4 onwards and the results in the early stages of the German cup in the last couple of weeks suggest a bigger gulf than exists here. Quite a few 7-0, 8-1 type results

[poc]

I think in terms of the pyramid of football, then English Football (and Welsh!) is the highest standard there is really. There can't be much in it between us and the 2. Bundesliga mind. After that I think German football does drop off a bit. It is heavily regionalised from tier 4 onwards and the results in the early stages of the German cup in the last couple of weeks suggest a bigger gulf than exists here. Quite a few 7-0, 8-1 type results

are you saying the welsh pyramid is a high standard

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

I think in terms of the pyramid of football, then English Football (and Welsh!) is the highest standard there is really. There can't be much in it between us and the 2. Bundesliga mind. After that I think German football does drop off a bit. It is heavily regionalised from tier 4 onwards and the results in the early stages of the German cup in the last couple of weeks suggest a bigger gulf than exists here. Quite a few 7-0, 8-1 type results

Qualification for the German FA Cup is quite odd. This from wikipedia:

"The DFB-Pokal begins with a round of 64 teams. The 36 teams of the Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga, along with the top four finishers of the 3. Liga are automatically qualified for the tournament. Of the remaining slots 21 are given to the cup winners of the regional football associations, the Verbandspokale. The three remaining slots are given to the three regional associations with the most men's teams. They may assign the slot as they see fit but usually give it to the runner-up in the association cup."

So you could finish 5th in the third tier but not qualify while a village team would, hence the 0-7s and 1-8s.

[the other bob wilson]

https://www.soccerstats.com/latest.asp?league=germany2

[JamesWales]

are you saying the welsh pyramid is a high standard

Nah, I'm saying the English football league system includes some teams from Wales 👍

[JamesWales]

Qualification for the German FA Cup is quite odd. This from wikipedia:

"The DFB-Pokal begins with a round of 64 teams. The 36 teams of the Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga, along with the top four finishers of the 3. Liga are automatically qualified for the tournament. Of the remaining slots 21 are given to the cup winners of the regional football associations, the Verbandspokale. The three remaining slots are given to the three regional associations with the most men's teams. They may assign the slot as they see fit but usually give it to the runner-up in the association cup."

So you could finish 5th in the third tier but not qualify while a village team would, hence the 0-7s and 1-8s.

Ah that is interesting. I had actually noticed before that not everyone in the 3rd tier qualified, which I always found strange but just assumed the other teams were from the regionaliga but had never pondered why.

That is a good explanation for the heavy defeats, cheers

[Swiss Peter]

Ah that is interesting. I had actually noticed before that not everyone in the 3rd tier qualified, which I always found strange but just assumed the other teams were from the regionaliga but had never pondered why.

That is a good explanation for the heavy defeats, cheers

Yes, interesting. Probably gives a bit more opportunity to really small teams than the FA Cup system, even it does mean that the 'team down the road' might be in line for a heavy hammering!

[Swiss Peter]

https://www.soccerstats.com/latest.asp?league=germany2

Watching HSV win away against Hannover tonight I'm going to go early and say they will walk the title this year.

Hertha starting to re-awaken with a 5-0 against Greuther Furth. Dardai's youngest offspring starring.

Schalke 04 3rd from bottom after losing at home to Holstein Kiel in the Friday night match.

Fascinating stuff, if you like this sort of thing 🤣🤣

[The Lone Gunman]

Not many small clubs in Germany’s second tier this season and plenty of relatively big ones. It’s interesting (or at least I think so…) to compare this season’s top Bundesliga 2 attendances so far for each of their biggest clubs with the top Championship attendances for each of our division’s biggest clubs. The top twenty would look like this:

61,800 – Schalke
57,000 – Hamburg
49,000 – Hannover
44,400 – Sunderland
44,000 – Kaiserslautern
40,400 – Dusseldorf
40,100 – Hertha Berlin
36,400 – Leeds
33,000 – Karlsruhe
31,800 – Leicester
30,400 – Southampton
30,000 – Nuremburg
29,600 – Ipswich
29,500 – St Pauli
29,400 – Middlesbrough
29,000 – Hansa Rostock
28,500 – Sheffield Wednesday
28.300 – Magdeburg
26,200 – Norwich
25,700 – Coventry

Eleven German clubs and nine English clubs would make the top twenty, with German sides filling seven of the top ten places.

[Harry Lime]

Not many small clubs in Germany’s second tier this season and plenty of relatively big ones. It’s interesting (or at least I think so…) to compare this season’s top Bundesliga 2 attendances so far for each of their biggest clubs with the top Championship attendances for each of our division’s biggest clubs. The top twenty would look like this:

61,800 – Schalke
57,000 – Hamburg
49,000 – Hannover
44,400 – Sunderland
44,000 – Kaiserslautern
40,400 – Dusseldorf
40,100 – Hertha Berlin
36,400 – Leeds
33,000 – Karlsruhe
31,800 – Leicester
30,400 – Southampton
30,000 – Nuremburg
29,600 – Ipswich
29,500 – St Pauli
29,400 – Middlesbrough
29,000 – Hansa Rostock
28,500 – Sheffield Wednesday
28.300 – Magdeburg
26,200 – Norwich
25,700 – Coventry

Eleven German clubs and nine English clubs would make the top twenty, with German sides filling seven of the top ten places.

Last season Sunderland might be the only ones in the top 10 I'm guessing

[The Lone Gunman]

Last season Sunderland might be the only ones in the top 10 I'm guessing

Schalke and Hertha were relegated last season, so they wouldn't be in the top ten.

[Harry Lime]

Schalke and Hertha were relegated last season, so they wouldn't be in the top ten.

Yes but I'm presuming Nuremberg and St Pauli attendances would have been higher than those of Burnley, Sheffield United and Luton

[The Lone Gunman]

Yes but I'm presuming Nuremberg and St Pauli attendances would have been higher than those of Burnley, Sheffield United and Luton

Based on last season's average attendances, Sunderland (3rd), Sheffield Utd (8th), Norwich (9th) and Middlesbrough (10th), would all have made the combined top ten.

Bear in mind the figures I quoted are merely the biggest attendances so far for each of the clubs, not their overall average. It'll be interesting to see how it works out over the season, especially if some of the bigger clubs in the German second tier struggle. But there's no doubting there are some big clubs in that division this season.

[Harry Lime]

Based on last season's average attendances, Sunderland (3rd), Sheffield Utd (8th), Norwich (9th) and Middlesbrough (10th), would all have made the combined top ten.

Bear in mind the figures I quoted are merely the biggest attendances so far for each of the clubs, not their overall average. It'll be interesting to see how it works out over the season, especially if some of the bigger clubs in the German second tier struggle. But there's no doubting there are some big clubs in that division this season.

Ah ok I thought they were average attendances. Didn't read thoroughly

[The Lone Gunman]

Ah ok I thought they were average attendances. Didn't read thoroughly

Schalke's two home attendances so far:

61,801 v Kaiserslautern
60,403 v Holstein Kiel

Meanwhile, both of Hamburg's games have been 57,000 sell-outs.

Crazy that clubs with that sort of support are in the second tier of any country.

[Harry Lime]

Schalke's two home attendances so far:

61,801 v Kaiserslautern
60,403 v Holstein Kiel

Meanwhile, both of Hamburg's games have been 57,000 sell-outs.

Crazy that clubs with that sort of support are in the second tier of any country.

I recalled reading this from earlier this year. Quite refreshing for a club who are notorious underachievers but still average 30,000.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/apr/27/fortuna-dusseldorf-to-offer-fans-free-tickets-next-season-germany

[Swiss Peter]

Schalke's two home attendances so far:

61,801 v Kaiserslautern
60,403 v Holstein Kiel

Meanwhile, both of Hamburg's games have been 57,000 sell-outs.

Crazy that clubs with that sort of support are in the second tier of any country.

I didn't realise Schalke were that well supported. Especially noteworthy given that Dortmund and Bochum are on the doorstep.
Be interesting to see if crowds hold up if they don't start picking up some form soon.

[splott parker]

I didn't realise Schalke were that well supported. Especially noteworthy given that Dortmund and Bochum are on the doorstep.
Be interesting to see if crowds hold up if they don't start picking up some form soon.

Traditionally well supported, proud working class city, Gelsenkirchen. Would be interesting to see a ‘ticket price’ table. I’d imagine German football is more affordable.

[Swiss Peter]

Traditionally well supported, proud working class city, Gelsenkirchen. Would be interesting to see a ‘ticket price’ table. I’d imagine German football is more affordable.

Yes, I'd be interested to see that. My impression is that at the top end it is about the same or slightly more than here. I had to pay more than £60 (through official club lines) for my Hamburg derby ticket earlier this year. On the other hand you can stand on the Ostkurve at Hertha (and no doubt other grounds) for around £12-15.

[JamesWales]

German football isn't as cheap as it was (where is?!) But it is still generally more affordable than here.

Go back 20 years and their stadiums were way 'behind' ours but a lot got improved for the 2006 world cup and now nearly all their grounds are very modern. There are very few of the traditional large curved open terraces etc left.

All that needs paying for I guess and at the top end I think tickets are more or less the same as here. At Dortmund for example the priciest tickets are €61. Indeed, one could argue they are more expensive as I don't think kids ticket prices are universally applicable in Germany, unlike the UK where they (nearly) always are.

The difference is at the lower end, where you can stand at Dortmund for €18.50.

I think that kind of pricing structure is in place pretty much thoughtoht the leagues, with it obviously getting cheaper the lower you go and concession prices probably become more readily available.

Just checked and Hannover 96, who are in 2.Bundesliga and are a club probably similar to us in terms of status (and whom I once watched in their old ground!), have their most expensive tickets at €37. Similar to here really.

Generally I vastly prefer their model. Mainly because they have terraces but also because they cater for all price points. I care little what the top price at clubs is, and I care more that the lowest price is affordable, and German clubs do that. There is also much less of the general bullshit like cashless grounds and you are more likely to get free train travel included in the match ticket etc - something City could easily work with TfW on.

Overall, Germany 1-0 UK

[Der Kaiser]

Watched this the other day, quite a good breakdown of why traditionally bigger clubs are down in the 2nd tier.

https://youtu.be/VrrMZ2GsC5g?si=Yz-R-omplOmgXxEH

[The Lone Gunman]

Quite a game in Bundesliga 2 this morning:

Magdeburg 6 Hertha Berlin 4

[Swiss Peter]

Quite a game in Bundesliga 2 this morning:

Magdeburg 6 Hertha Berlin 4

Just looked. 2-3 at HT and 3-4 after 55 mins? Strange result, although nothing surprises with Hertha these days!.

[Swiss Peter]

Watched this the other day, quite a good breakdown of why traditionally bigger clubs are down in the 2nd tier.

https://youtu.be/VrrMZ2GsC5g?si=Yz-R-omplOmgXxEH

Other than the slightly irritating style of presentation, that's a really interesting watch Der Kaiser.

[Harry Lime]

Only just catching up properly on the results from last weekend, I think it might have been a case of Dirty Harry syndrome - In all that excitement, I clean forgot.

B2 didn't lack excitement of its own, 37 goals in 9 games. Honourable mentions to Elversberg beating HSV, St Pauli hammering high flying Holstien Kiel and Hannover netting 7. Add to that a thriller at Schalke, Düsseldorf going top with a fine away win and Hertha coasting to a win to ease the pressure on them.

This week we have Union making their Champions League debut at little old Real Madrid. Hope they give a good account of themselves

[Swiss Peter]

Only just catching up properly on the results from last weekend, I think it might have been a case of Dirty Harry syndrome - In all that excitement, I clean forgot.

B2 didn't lack excitement of its own, 37 goals in 9 games. Honourable mentions to Elversberg beating HSV, St Pauli hammering high flying Holstien Kiel and Hannover netting 7. Add to that a thriller at Schalke, Düsseldorf going top with a fine away win and Hertha coasting to a win to ease the pressure on them.

This week we have Union making their Champions League debut at little old Real Madrid. Hope they give a good account of themselves

Another lively weekend in B2! After the Magdeburg 6 Hertha 4 result last weekend - Magdeburg go on to lose 4-0 and Hertha win 3-0 this weekend. As you say, some interesting and surprising results - especially the Hamburg one.

I was actually at the St. Pauli match. Sadly though I got an email just before kick-off to say easyjet had cancelled my flight back. Had to leave at half-time (with SP 3 up) to go and sort out the mess that ensued. Interesting to note (looking at the other threads) that the minute's silence was held and respected by both sets of fans . Always surprises me with the amount of beer consumed outside and in the ground!

Yep, be good to see Union doing well this week.

[Swiss Peter]

Ooops - 4-3 at Schalke. Closer than I thought!

[Harry Lime]

Another lively weekend in B2! After the Magdeburg 6 Hertha 4 result last weekend - Magdeburg go on to lose 4-0 and Hertha win 3-0 this weekend. As you say, some interesting and surprising results - especially the Hamburg one.

I was actually at the St. Pauli match. Sadly though I got an email just before kick-off to say easyjet had cancelled my flight back. Had to leave at half-time (with SP 3 up) to go and sort out the mess that ensued. Interesting to note (looking at the other threads) that the minute's silence was held and respected by both sets of fans . Always surprises me with the amount of beer consumed outside and in the ground!

Yep, be good to see Union doing well this week.

Would you say that there is just as much of a drinking culture over there then Peter?

I always assumed it would be more restrained

[the other bob wilson]

St Pauli only scored eight in six matches with more than half of them coming last weekend!

Never heard of Elversberg before.

https://www.soccerstats.com/latest.asp?league=germany2

[Swiss Peter]

Would you say that there is just as much of a drinking culture over there then Peter?

I always assumed it would be more restrained

I would say it is not more restrained, Harry. It's certainly more overt over there - you see loads of people drinking in the streets, public transport etc. before matches - more so than here I would say, where the drinking culture is more pub based?. I think that they are clamping down inside the grounds now too. There was no alcohol being sold at the Hamburg derby games last year, for instance.

[Harry Lime]

I would say it is not more restrained, Harry. It's certainly more overt over there - you see loads of people drinking in the streets, public transport etc. before matches - more so than here I would say, where the drinking culture is more pub based?. I think that they are clamping down inside the grounds now too. There was no alcohol being sold at the Hamburg derby games last year, for instance.

Interesting that.

Yes definitely more pub based here, I'm not sure what the legislation is with regards to drinking in the street these days? I know they started clamping down on it a few years ago

[The Lone Gunman]

Would you say that there is just as much of a drinking culture over there then Peter?

I always assumed it would be more restrained

In my experience, which is admittedly limited to just three Bundesliga matches and one game in the lower divisions, the attitude to drinking alcohol before and during matches in Germany was much more relaxed. There were loads of outlets serving beer in and around the Olympiastadion on my three visits to watch Hertha Berlin (the latest of which was in 2019), and fans were able to drink pretty much everywhere, including inside the stadium bowl while watching the games. If memory serves, you paid a 2 euro deposit on a big plastic beer jug with Hertha's logo on the side and it could be refilled as many times as you liked during the match. You handed the jug back on your way out and got your deposit back then.

I went to see Tennis Borussia Berlin play in the fifth division in late-November 2018, and my partner at the time was delighted that she was able to sit in the grandstand and watch the game while drinking mulled wine.

[Swiss Peter]

[QUOTE=The Lone Gunman;5455623

I went to see Tennis Borussia Berlin play [/QUOTE]

I had to look them up. I imagined they'd be another team from the old east. I didn't realise that they are another Charlottenburg team, not far from the Olympiastadion. Crowds of a few hundred and quite an interesting history!

[The Lone Gunman]

I had to look them up. I imagined they'd be another team from the old east. I didn't realise that they are another Charlottenburg team, not far from the Olympiastadion. Crowds of a few hundred and quite an interesting history!

One season in the Bundesliga I believe, something like 1971 or 1972?

They were unbeaten in the league when I saw them play local rivals CFC Hertha 06 on a very cold late-November evening. They got hammered 4-0. The crowd was about 600 I think. One thing that tickled me was they had a signing section on the terrace on the opposite side of the the ground to where we were sat, and many of the songs they were signing were in English. Halfway through the second half at 0-3 down they were signing "show me the way to go home...."

:hehe:

[Harry Lime]

One season in the Bundesliga I believe, something like 1971 or 1972?

They were unbeaten in the league when I saw them play local rivals CFC Hertha 06 on a very cold late-November evening. They got hammered 4-0. The crowd was about 600 I think. One thing that tickled me was they had a signing section on the terrace on the opposite side of the the ground to where we were sat, and many of the songs they were signing were in English. Halfway through the second half at 0-3 down they were signing "show me the way to go home...."

:hehe:

Who says Germans don't have a sense of humour.

My 56 year old brain is struggling to recall a particular team that has a massive Christmas festival at their stadium every year. I seem to recall that it starts after a match? Mulled wine on the terraces is very civilised I must say

[The Lone Gunman]

My 56 year old brain is struggling to recall a particular team that has a massive Christmas festival at their stadium every year. I seem to recall that it starts after a match? Mulled wine on the terraces is very civilised I must say

Just Googled it and it seems Union Berlin have some sort of an annual Christmas carol singing festival.

[The Lone Gunman]

https://www.fc-union-berlin.de/en/union-live/latest-news/club/The-story-behind-Union-s-Traditional-Christmas-Carols-86D/

[Harry Lime]

https://www.fc-union-berlin.de/en/union-live/latest-news/club/The-story-behind-Union-s-Traditional-Christmas-Carols-86D/

That's it 👍

[Swiss Peter]

Who says Germans don't have a sense of humour.



We were sitting in a pub after the St Pauli game on Sunday trying to figure out how the hell we were going to get home when a group of St Pauli fans joined us at the table. Great result, I said to them. "Not really" came back the reply. "I'd got used to sitting there comfortably during the matches this season, and today I had to stand up five time". German humour, I guess.

[Harry Lime]

We were sitting in a pub after the St Pauli game on Sunday trying to figure out how the hell we were going to get home when a group of St Pauli fans joined us at the table. Great result, I said to them. "Not really" came back the reply. "I'd got used to sitting there comfortably during the matches this season, and today I had to stand up five time". German humour, I guess.

Fair play, not bad for an off the cuff joke. I like fans who don't take things too seriously.

[splott parker]

One season in the Bundesliga I believe, something like 1971 or 1972?

They were unbeaten in the league when I saw them play local rivals CFC Hertha 06 on a very cold late-November evening. They got hammered 4-0. The crowd was about 600 I think. One thing that tickled me was they had a signing section on the terrace on the opposite side of the the ground to where we were sat, and many of the songs they were signing were in English. Halfway through the second half at 0-3 down they were signing "show me the way to go home...."

:hehe:

How many autographs did you get in the signing section David? :hide::hehe:

[Harry Lime]

https://www.youtube.com/live/yxaPmHGxNkM?si=8d1nGrKSj0YwEQbT

St Pauli Schalke live on YouTube tonight. I didn't know they put these games on before now

[JamesWales]

https://www.youtube.com/live/yxaPmHGxNkM?si=8d1nGrKSj0YwEQbT

St Pauli Schalke live on YouTube tonight. I didn't know they put these games on before now

Nor me. Is there one on every weekend?

[Harry Lime]

Nor me. Is there one on every weekend?

Looks like it, a few games on live next weekend

[The Lone Gunman]

Another goal for Robert Glatzel yesterday (6 in 8 games for him this season). However, a shocking 2-1 defeat for Hamburg at bottom of the table Osnabruck, who had previously picked up just one point from six games and been beaten 7-0 at Hannover last week.

[LA Bluebird]

The one Bundesliga 2. game I ever saw was in 2000 or 2001 on an exchange - saw SSV Reutlingen win 8-2 against Saarbrucken. Shocking stadium, was a crumbling concrete block where they had us penned in like you'd see in the UK in the 70's or 80's and one of the other kids nearly got arrested on the way in because he forgot he had a pocket knife in his combats. But the only time in my life I think I'll ever see 10 goals, at least at such a decent level.

Another team that have disappeared way down the league structure... now in one of the regional Oberliga's. I think they had some money behind them in the early 2000's but still only managed 3 years in Bundesliga 2. before dropping back down to their usual level. German football is funny like that.

[Swiss Peter]

Nor me. Is there one on every weekend?

Yes, I think so. Next week looks good. Hamburg v Fortuna Düsseldorf and Hertha v St. Pauli both being shown.

[Swiss Peter]

The one Bundesliga 2. game I ever saw was in 2000 or 2001 on an exchange - saw SSV Reutlingen win 8-2 against Saarbrucken. Shocking stadium, was a crumbling concrete block where they had us penned in like you'd see in the UK in the 70's or 80's and one of the other kids nearly got arrested on the way in because he forgot he had a pocket knife in his combats. But the only time in my life I think I'll ever see 10 goals, at least at such a decent level.

Another team that have disappeared way down the league structure... now in one of the regional Oberliga's. I think they had some money behind them in the early 2000's but still only managed 3 years in Bundesliga 2. before dropping back down to their usual level. German football is funny like that.

Maybe not quite at the level you are talking about, but the Youtube piece posted by Der Kaiser further up this thread is worth viewing in terms of the ups and downs in fortunes of German football clubs.

[Swiss Peter]

Another goal for Robert Glatzel yesterday (6 in 8 games for him this season). However, a shocking 2-1 defeat for Hamburg at bottom of the table Osnabruck, who had previously picked up just one point from six games and been beaten 7-0 at Hannover last week.

Successive defeats to Elvesberg and Osnabruck for Hamburg. I bet they didn't see that coming!

[JamesWales]

Yes, I think so. Next week looks good. Hamburg v Fortuna Düsseldorf and Hertha v St. Pauli both being shown.

That's great, cheers. I really had no idea about that.

Hertha are struggling I see.

[The Lone Gunman]

Hertha are struggling I see.

They’ve picked up a little, two wins in their last three games. They drew a crowd of 43,528 for their 3-0 victory over Braunschweig last weekend.

[Swiss Peter]

St. Pauli go top of the league with a 2-1 win away at Hertha. 60k attendance, with 12k from Hamburg. Watched it on Youtube and though St. Pauli looked worthy table-toppers.

[Harry Lime]

St. Pauli go top of the league with a 2-1 win away at Hertha. 60k attendance, with 12k from Hamburg. Watched it on Youtube and though St. Pauli looked worthy table-toppers.

I watched some of it. Incredible advert for the league

[JamesWales]

Can anyone explain Schalke this season?

They are of course an enormous club who should be no where near the bottom of the Bundesliga let alone the second division..

..and yet now, 8 games in they are still in the relegation zone (and still getting 60,000 sell outs). Long way to go but what's going on?

[Harry Lime]

Nuremberg equaliser against St Pauli tonight, assist by Mats Moller Daehli. Classy little player, just a bit lightweight

[life on mars]

St Pauli are an institution.

[Swiss Peter]

Nuremberg equaliser against St Pauli tonight, assist by Mats Moller Daehli. Classy little player, just a bit lightweight

I see St. Pauli went back to the top with another thumping victory yesterday. A team that was struggling to score at all early in the season now has 13 in the last 3 home games.

Hamburg avoided a third successive defeat with a last minute equaliser at Wiesbaden. They've tailed off a bit.

Today's youtube live game is Schalke v Hertha. Worth a watch. Neither team has really established itself at this level.

[Swiss Peter]

I see St. Pauli went back to the top with another thumping victory yesterday. A team that was struggling to score at all early in the season now has 13 in the last 3 home games.

Hamburg avoided a third successive defeat with a last minute equaliser at Wiesbaden. They've tailed off a bit.

Today's youtube live game is Schalke v Hertha. Worth a watch. Neither team has really established itself at this level.

Sorry - third defeat in 4!

[Harry Lime]

I see St. Pauli went back to the top with another thumping victory yesterday. A team that was struggling to score at all early in the season now has 13 in the last 3 home games.

Hamburg avoided a third successive defeat with a last minute equaliser at Wiesbaden. They've tailed off a bit.

Today's youtube live game is Schalke v Hertha. Worth a watch. Neither team has really established itself at this level.

I was watching the St Pauli game on a delay, it was hardly worth mentioning the MMD assist in the end. Blimey!

Hope to watch a bit of the game today, both need the points that's for sure

[Swiss Peter]

I was watching the St Pauli game on a delay, it was hardly worth mentioning the MMD assist in the end. Blimey!

Hope to watch a bit of the game today, both need the points that's for sure

Are they playing as well as the result suggests, Harry? I saw them win at Hertha last week (on youtube) and they looked very impressive.

[JamesWales]

Schalke lost at home to Hertha Berlin.

They now sit comfortably in the bottom three.

This is a bit like someone like Tottenham or Arsenal being in the relegation zone in the championship.

[Swiss Peter]

Schalke lost at home to Hertha Berlin.

They now sit comfortably in the bottom three.

This is a bit like someone like Tottenham or Arsenal being in the relegation zone in the championship.

This piece is more than 2 years old, but explains some of the reasons for Schalke's decline....

https://www.dw.com/en/schalke-relegated-from-the-bundesliga-the-inside-story-of-a-royal-case-of-the-blues/a-57184763

[JamesWales]

This piece is more than 2 years old, but explains some of the reasons for Schalke's decline....

https://www.dw.com/en/schalke-relegated-from-the-bundesliga-the-inside-story-of-a-royal-case-of-the-blues/a-57184763

Thanks Peter.

I assume Schalke will come good and stay up, but it really is quite something as they are very much in the top 5 clubs in Germany.

[Harry Lime]

Are they playing as well as the result suggests, Harry? I saw them win at Hertha last week (on youtube) and they looked very impressive.

I think 5 was a bit flattering Peter but I like what I'm seeing. They hit that purple patch last season and it is starting to look similar - very quick counter attacking, no fear. I just hope that they can add some depth in January, if so who knows. They look a very good side at the moment.

[Swiss Peter]

Wins today for both of the 'fallen giants'. Good result for Schalke beating Hannover 96. St Pauli consolidate their position at the top by coming from behind to beat Karlsruhe 2-1.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsWM_5jYiLk&ab_channel=Bundesliga

Bit of quality action from the Bundesliga 2

[Madassa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsWM_5jYiLk&ab_channel=Bundesliga

Bit of quality action from the Bundesliga 2

:hehe::hehe::hehe:

[Swiss Peter]

:hehe::hehe::hehe:

Sadly st Pauli - much the better team - threw that away through the smoke and the snow.

[the other bob wilson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsWM_5jYiLk&ab_channel=Bundesliga

Bit of quality action from the Bundesliga 2

A true classic, especially as it was Hamburg!

St Pauli, still unbeaten I see, when's the mid season break?

[JamesWales]

I felt cold just watching that! 🥶

[Swiss Peter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsWM_5jYiLk&ab_channel=Bundesliga

Bit of quality action from the Bundesliga 2

Can’t see it as I’m in Germany but it looked nuts in real time. I was there last night and disappointed that St Pauli didn’t get the reward for their dominance.

[Swiss Peter]

Top of the table St. Pauli draw away at bottom of the table Osnabruck. Hamburg drop to third after losing at home to Paderborn. Ever improving Hertha move within 4 points of Hamburg (having knocked them out of the cup during the week after equalising goals in the 90th and 120th mins!). Schalke remain in the bottom 3.

Shaping up nicely as they move towards the winter break.

[Swiss Peter]

Resumes this weekend after the winter break. Bundesliga 2 matches on Sky youtube this weekend - Schalke v Hamburg on Saturday and Hertha v Düsseldorf on Sunday.

On the subject of Hertha, this is a sad story. Kay Bernstein, who rose from ultra on the Ostkurve to club president dies at 43.

https://talksport.com/football/1714341/hertha-berlin-ultra-president-dies-aged-43/

From Kicker: “Berlin, which had fallen somewhat out of love with Hertha BSC, has taken this traditional club back to its heart.

That the alienation between the club and the active fan scene has been overcome, that this club, which has lived grotesquely beyond its means for years, has regained its footing - that is Bernstein's lasting merit.”

[the other bob wilson]

Hamburg beaten 4-3 at home by Hannover - looking good for St Pauli.

[Ninian1962]

Hamburg beaten 4-3 at home by Hannover - looking good for St Pauli.

Glatzel scored again

[Swiss Peter]

Hamburg beaten 4-3 at home by Hannover - looking good for St Pauli.

I watched St Pauli v Greuther Fürth on youtube last weekend, and they said that apparently their last league defeat was the 4-3 in the derby back in April last year! (although they lost to Düsseldorf in the cup a couple of weeks ago). Could be 8 clear at the top by the end of today.

[Swiss Peter]

I watched St Pauli v Greuther Fürth on youtube last weekend, and they said that apparently their last league defeat was the 4-3 in the derby back in April last year! (although they lost to Düsseldorf in the cup a couple of weeks ago). Could be 8 clear at the top by the end of today.

....and, just as I post that, the unbeaten run is over! St. Pauli lose 1-0 at Magdeburg.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

There was quite a few protest around the grounds in Germany today i.e. against Saudi and and private equity investors buying a stake in the in the Bundesliga marketing revenues, a move backed by two-thirds of the teams in the Bundesliga/Bundesliga 2.

[Swiss Peter]

There was quite a few protest around the grounds in Germany today i.e. against Saudi and and private equity investors buying a stake in the in the Bundesliga marketing revenues, a move backed by two-thirds of the teams in the Bundesliga/Bundesliga 2.

Last night's HSV v Hannover game was stopped by protests for 15 mins and nearly called off from what I read. A banner with the owner's head in crosshairs in the Hannover end was part of the problem, presumably for support of the proposal you mention. Protests also against 'puppets in support of Saudi sportswashing' too. Big game between Leverkusen and Bayern on now also held up. A protest involving lots of throwing of sweeties. Well, it is Karnival time!

[Swiss Peter]

Are St. Pauli wobbling?. After the long undefeated run now a second defeat in the last 4, this time 3-1 at Schalke. Kiel close the gap, coming from 2 down at Hertha to equalise with a 97th min pen.

Hamburger SV can also close the gap with a home match against bottom of the table Osnabruck on Sunday.

Been watching a few on sky sports youtube, and must say coverage is very good. Interesting fact from the commentary tonight was that apparently for the first time in history Bundesliga 2 attendances last weekend were higher than those in the Bundesliga. Wonder if that has ever happened here.

[JamesWales]

I meant to post this last week.

Attendances in 2.Bundesliga outstripped the top flight last weekend

https://onefootball.com/en/news/fans-flock-to-2-bundesliga-as-attendances-in-second-tier-exceed-bundesliga-for-first-time-39071754

[Harry Lime]

Are St. Pauli wobbling?. After the long undefeated run now a second defeat in the last 4, this time 3-1 at Schalke. Kiel close the gap, coming from 2 down at Hertha to equalise with a 97th min pen.

Hamburger SV can also close the gap with a home match against bottom of the table Osnabruck on Sunday.

Been watching a few on sky sports youtube, and must say coverage is very good. Interesting fact from the commentary tonight was that apparently for the first time in history Bundesliga 2 attendances last weekend were higher than those in the Bundesliga. Wonder if that has ever happened here.

It's definitely a mini wobble Peter. Not easy being front runners sometimes. Fully expect Hamburg to close the gap but they've got form for shooting themselves in the foot too.

Rivalry aside, I'll be happy to see both Hamburg clubs in the top flight next season

[splott parker]

Chris Gunter scored for Freiburg against Bayern Munich last night…..thought I’d chuck that in.

[Swiss Peter]

It's definitely a mini wobble Peter. Not easy being front runners sometimes. Fully expect Hamburg to close the gap but they've got form for shooting themselves in the foot too.

Rivalry aside, I'll be happy to see both Hamburg clubs in the top flight next season

Prescient words Harry :hehe:. Hamburg lose at home to a bottom of the table Osnabruck reduced to 10 men. Are HSV the ultimate bottlers of European football? I'd hate to be a fan of theirs!

...oh, and Glatzel scores again.

[Harry Lime]

Prescient words Harry :hehe:. Hamburg lose at home to a bottom of the table Osnabruck reduced to 10 men. Are HSV the ultimate bottlers of European football? I'd hate to be a fan of theirs!

...oh, and Glatzel scores again.

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day mate 😄.
Their record in recent years is getting freakish, they seem to be determined to remain in Bundeslega 2.
All to play for, really looking forward to seeing how it pans out.

[Swiss Peter]

5 matches left. Top 5: Kiel 58, St. Pauli 57, Düsseldorf 52, Hamburg 49, Hannover 45

Dusseldorf are on fire, with 6 straight wins. St. Pauli are wobbling having lost the last 2. Hamburg v Kiel this evening is a huge match. Will Hamburg miss out yet again?

For those interested just a reminder that there is good live coverage on Sky Sports Youtube.

[Swiss Peter]

Conscious of the dodgyness of bouncing your own threads....

Kiel surprisingly lose at home to 2nd to bottom 1 FCK. Dusseldorf draw at Schalke. It means St. Pauli could gain promotion at next Friday's derby game away at Hamburger SV. That'll go down well. :hehe:

[Swiss Peter]

Conscious of the dodgyness of bouncing your own threads....

Kiel surprisingly lose at home to 2nd to bottom 1 FCK. Dusseldorf draw at Schalke. It means St. Pauli could gain promotion at next Friday's derby game away at Hamburger SV. That'll go down well. :hehe:

Just a short additional point. I was at St. Pauli v Rostock on Friday. They hate each other. A few seasons back Rostock fans smashed up all the toilets. They were banned for the match after, but Pauli fans being Pauli fans took the view that nobody should be banned from a football match, and they've been let back. So, on Friday the club closed the away end toilets but provided porta-loos. They also stated that for every porta-loo left undamaged they would pay 100 euros to Rostock's youth development team. Apparently no damage was reported. Very German football!

[Harry Lime]

Just a short additional point. I was at St. Pauli v Rostock on Friday. They hate each other. A few seasons back Rostock fans smashed up all the toilets. They were banned for the match after, but Pauli fans being Pauli fans took the view that nobody should be banned from a football match, and they've been let back. So, on Friday the club closed the away end toilets but provided porta-loos. They also stated that for every porta-loo left undamaged they would pay 100 euros to Rostock's youth development team. Apparently no damage was reported. Very German football!
Been following the season closely but didn't know of the toilet story. What a refreshing way of dealing with a potential problem. I'm guessing if that happened over here they'd receive an anti 'woke' backlash. I know that Rostock have a large far right fan presence so glad to see St Pauli flush them away.

Would love to see them gain promotion on Friday but playing two out of the current bottom three in their remaining games, surely they'll make it anyway

[JamesWales]

Just a short additional point. I was at St. Pauli v Rostock on Friday. They hate each other. A few seasons back Rostock fans smashed up all the toilets. They were banned for the match after, but Pauli fans being Pauli fans took the view that nobody should be banned from a football match, and they've been let back. So, on Friday the club closed the away end toilets but provided porta-loos. They also stated that for every porta-loo left undamaged they would pay 100 euros to Rostock's youth development team. Apparently no damage was reported. Very German football!

Great story and shows how the carrot can be more powerful than the stick.

[Michael Morris]

Conscious of the dodgyness of bouncing your own threads....

Kiel surprisingly lose at home to 2nd to bottom 1 FCK. Dusseldorf draw at Schalke. It means St. Pauli could gain promotion at next Friday's derby game away at Hamburger SV. That'll go down well. :hehe:

FT: Hamburg 1 - 0 St Pauli

Winning goal by Robert Glatzel on 85 mins.

[The Lone Gunman]

FT: Hamburg 1 - 0 St Pauli

Winning goal by Robert Glatzel on 85 mins.

Glatzel’s Bundesliga 2 record for Hamburg now reads 60 goals in 95 (+3) appearances.

Quite incredible really. And, as usual, another 57,000 crowd at Hamburg this evening.

[Harry Lime]

Glatzel’s Bundesliga 2 record for Hamburg now reads 60 goals in 95 (+3) appearances.

Quite incredible really. And, as usual, another 57,000 crowd at Hamburg this evening.

Astonishing return, pleased for him.

Always thought good he looked in the lockdown payoff run.

Our management clearly thought differently

[the other bob wilson]

Astonishing return, pleased for him.

Always thought good he looked in the lockdown payoff run.

Our management clearly thought differently

A good technical player, City probably didn’t know what to do with him.

Still optimistic that the right team in Hamburg will be the only ones promoted from that city.

[Harry Lime]

A good technical player, City probably didn’t know what to do with him.

Still optimistic that the right team in Hamburg will be the only ones promoted from that city.

Only one can get promoted after tonight. Yet another disappointing season for HSV.

St Pauli will be promoted along with Kiel if Kiel beat Dusseldorf at home tomorrow night. Failing that, a win at home to bottom of the table Osnabruck on Sunday lunchtime will also secure promotion.

The team who finish 3rd look set for a playoff against either Mainz or Union Berlin. Union have had a very poor season considering they played in the Champions League. Wonder how many CL participants have ever gone on the be relegated? My guess is none.

[the other bob wilson]

Personal feelings aside, Hamburg’s failure to win promotion for a fourth season is it now is a real surprise. Wasn’t aware of Union Berlin’s struggles, presumably their squad wasn’t good or deep enough to cope with the extra games they would have played?

[Swiss Peter]

Only one can get promoted after tonight. Yet another disappointing season for HSV.

St Pauli will be promoted along with Kiel if Kiel beat Dusseldorf at home tomorrow night. Failing that, a win at home to bottom of the table Osnabruck on Sunday lunchtime will also secure promotion.

The team who finish 3rd look set for a playoff against either Mainz or Union Berlin. Union have had a very poor season considering they played in the Champions League. Wonder how many CL participants have ever gone on the be relegated? My guess is none.

Union’s rapid decline is surprising isn’t it. They parted company with the coach who had led them through the promotion and CL qualification and have also spent on higher profile players. Sounds like it hasn’t worked out. Having said that Mainz appear to have the tougher run-in.

I’m in Berlin at the moment visiting family. Actually watching Hertha later in a game that is a bit of a dead rubber. Then off to St. Pauli tomorrow for one that definitely isn‘t! As you say, all eyes on the Kiel v Düsseldorf match tonight though!

[Harry Lime]

I think it's 6, they went down in 2018.
Compared to some of their recent seasons, this one has been a bit less dramatic. They have done a real 'Devon Lock' a couple of times.

I wish them no ill will, I just happen to follow St Pauli. There can't be a bigger club playing in the 2nd tier of any league in world football? I know River Plate went down for one season about 10 years ago but since then nothing compares to HSV.

[Harry Lime]

Union’s rapid decline is surprising isn’t it. They parted company with the coach who had led them through the promotion and CL qualification and have also spent on higher profile players. Sounds like it hasn’t worked out. Having said that Mainz appear to have the tougher run-in.

I’m in Berlin at the moment visiting family. Actually watching Hertha later in a game that is a bit of a dead rubber. Then off to St. Pauli tomorrow for one that definitely isn‘t! As you say, all eyes on the Kiel v Düsseldorf match tonight though!

That's a heck a ticket to have for tomorrow Peter!

The goals have dried up a bit in recent games so I'm hoping s Kiel win tonight will make it more of a celebration game at the Millerntor.

[Swiss Peter]

That's a heck a ticket to have for tomorrow Peter!

The goals have dried up a bit in recent games so I'm hoping s Kiel win tonight will make it more of a celebration game at the Millerntor.

67 000 at hertha today. For a 2nd div match with nothing much resting on it. Extraordinary really. It’s not as if the ‚there’s not much else to do there‘ theory applies!

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

This seems the most appropriate place to post this: last week I saw two games in Vienna - a second division game which kicked off at 10.30am for some reason and then Rapid v Red Bull Salzburg with Cardiff legend* Guido Burgstaller, now 35, scoring the 2nd goal in a 2-0 win. A similar vibe to games in Germany - lots of persistent flag waving, a big net behind each goal and a club song before the game. Not a Hey Jude type of thing; a proper bespoke tune written about the club. Rapid's sounded like a Eurovision ballad from the 80s. Nul points. I remember Hoffenheim's club song was heavy metal. Not really recommended as something to do here but quite interesting to experience as a tourist.

*Not a legend

[the other bob wilson]

Kiel 1 Düsseldorf 1, so a draw will do for St Pauli tomorrow.

[Harry Lime]

Kiel 1 Düsseldorf 1, so a draw will do for St Pauli tomorrow.

Watched on the YouTube stream, great that we can get these games for free. Very good game and a fair result I thought. Struck me how civilised the celebrations were. Congratulations to Kiel.

[JamesWales]

St Pauli promoted! Congratulations to them and those who follow them on here.

Depending on what happens with the play offs and if Koln stay up, I make it that 2.Bundesliga could have eight 50,000+ stadiums next season to a mere five in the top flight. Bizarre

[Swiss Peter]

St Pauli promoted! Congratulations to them and those who follow them on here.

Depending on what happens with the play offs and if Koln stay up, I make it that 2.Bundesliga could have eight 50,000+ stadiums next season to a mere five in the top flight. Bizarre

Yes, promoted Kiel's stadium only holds 15k and Koln could yet be going in the opposite direction. At least 1 FCK with their 50k stadium have just avoided going down to the third level!. I was fortunate enough to be there to witness St. Pauli's promotion yesterday. Their stadium is smaller than ours - although aways sells out, and they manage to create a hell of an atmosphere.

[Swiss Peter]

This seems the most appropriate place to post this: last week I saw two games in Vienna - a second division game which kicked off at 10.30am for some reason and then Rapid v Red Bull Salzburg with Cardiff legend* Guido Burgstaller, now 35, scoring the 2nd goal in a 2-0 win. A similar vibe to games in Germany - lots of persistent flag waving, a big net behind each goal and a club song before the game. Not a Hey Jude type of thing; a proper bespoke tune written about the club. Rapid's sounded like a Eurovision ballad from the 80s. Nul points. I remember Hoffenheim's club song was heavy metal. Not really recommended as something to do here but quite interesting to experience as a tourist.

*Not a legend

Didn't know Burgstaller was still playing!. Red Bull seem to have that league properly sewn up.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Didn't know Burgstaller was still playing!. Red Bull seem to have that league properly sewn up.

They've won the last ten but they're currently second to Sturm Graz. I wasn't that impressed by them, unless it was just an off day. Rapid snuffed them out and it got scrappy and RBS didn't produce much at all.

[the other bob wilson]

Pictures from before Sunday's game


https://x.com/TheyThinkKits/status/1789682681262797256

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Kiel 1 Düsseldorf 1, so a draw will do for St Pauli tomorrow.

Well done for including the umlauts! (It makes a difference in the sound of the vowel).