2 Games

[Harry Lime]

Frankly astonished by the overwhelming negative reaction here, even from seasoned fans and messageboard doyerns. What on earth did you expect?

No I'm not astonished really. We'll sign a few players this week and next stop who knows.

Let's judge it after a dozen games. We could be this season's Coventry or we can carry on wetting the bed after 2 ****ing games, up to you.

[MOZZER2]

at last a voice of reason on here but more to the point what is a message board doyern ?

[Hilts]

Apart from positive cameos from Colwill Tanner and Robinson the huge plus is at least football is being discussed again and the main board isnt spammed with interest rates , vaccines , speed limits and flat earth lunatics.

[The Lone Gunman]

What on earth did you expect?

Better. That’s what I expected.

With a number of new players in attacking positions, I didn’t expect the first home game of the season to be a carbon copy of the rubbish that was served up last season. But unfortunately that’s precisely what we got.

[Harry Lime]

Better. That’s what I expected.

With a number of new players in attacking positions.

Since when did that all gel perfectly?

[RichardM]

at last a voice of reason on here but more to the point what is a message board doyern ?

Doyen
a: the senior member of a body or group
b: a person considered to be knowledgeable or uniquely skilled as a result of long experience in some field of endeavor

[The Lone Gunman]

Since when did that all gel perfectly?

I have no idea what that question means. All what?

[MOZZER2]

Doyen
a: the senior member of a body or group
b: a person considered to be knowledgeable or uniquely skilled as a result of long experience in some field of endeavor

thanks for clearing that up .Never heard that word before

[Harry Lime]

I have no idea what that question means. All what?

Sorry on my clunky phone, meant to expand the quote.

Cohesion.

New manager, new players/system etc. To quote you, 'its August ....'. I'll go further, it's early August.

I know it's boring where everyone throws their opinion into the ring every 2 seconds but I think it's safe to say we'll know more after 15 games.

[bluesp]

I’m with the OP. Start judging the team and manager after 10/ 12 games not 2….before the window has closed! The amount of negativity I’ve since in the last day or so more than matches the crazy top 6 talk and over positivity before the first league game. The players and manager need to be given time rather than being booed and abused during the first game by unbelievably fickle “fans”

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I’m with the OP. Start judging the team and manager after 10/ 12 games not 2….before the window has closed! The amount of negativity I’ve since in the last day or so more than matches the crazy top 6 talk and over positivity before the first league game. The players and manager need to be given time rather than being booed and abused during the first game by unbelievably fickle “fans”

True. I've been a fickle fan continuously since August 1962.

[The Lone Gunman]

Sorry on my clunky phone, meant to expand the quote.

Cohesion.

New manager, new players/system etc. To quote you, 'its August ....'. I'll go further, it's early August.

I know it's boring where everyone throws their opinion into the ring every 2 seconds but I think it's safe to say we'll know more after 15 games.

Of course. I agree. But you asked what people expected.

I expected City to beat a QPR side that has been in freefall for months, who were smacked 4-0 at Watford last week and who I'd backed for relegation before the season began. I'm pretty sure most Bluebirds fans did. The bookies certainly did.

I also expected to see some better football with likes of Ramsey, Bowler and Grant in the side. However, Ramsey was largely ineffective, Bowler was disappointing after a bright start last week and Grant looked absolutely hopeless.

I expected a much better all-round team performance than we witnessed yesterday and so did pretty much everyone else I spoke to before and after the game.

We'll obviously know more after 15 games, but whether Bulut can last that long remains to be seen. It's obvious he was a Dalman appointment as opposed to Tan's choice. Therefore, I believe he's on thin ice. I don't think Vinnie will exercise much patience with him.

[Des Parrot]

What on earth did you expect

A win against QPR and 3 points in the bag. Shirley no one expected to lose against the relegation favourites.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I was hoping that we'd have an energy about us, a purpose, a drive to our game. It'll take a bit of time for some partnerships on the pitch to develop, but that doesn't excuse a lifeless, lacking in energy performance in Bulut's first game.

Track back to Warnock's first game in charge. We'd been rubbish for Trollope, yet under Warnock, we at least showed some guts and desire in his first game. None of that yesterday.

[Harry Lime]

A win against QPR and 3 points in the bag. Shirley no one expected to lose against the relegation favourites.
If you are basing your opinion on the bookies then us getting 3 points against QPR is pretty far from being in the bag. I'm not sure if I expect any result in this league, especially in August

[Harry Lime]

I was hoping that we'd have an energy about us, a purpose, a drive to our game. It'll take a bit of time for some partnerships on the pitch to develop, but that doesn't excuse a lifeless, lacking in energy performance in Bulut's first game.

Track back to Warnock's first game in charge. We'd been rubbish for Trollope, yet under Warnock, we at least showed some guts and desire in his first game. None of that yesterday.

Fair, NW freshened up an underperforming team and struck gold from the off. He added 3 new faces to a stale team. This team has been thrown together over a couple of months.

[blue matt]

Frankly astonished by the overwhelming negative reaction here, even from seasoned fans and messageboard doyerns. What on earth did you expect?

No I'm not astonished really. We'll sign a few players this week and next stop who knows.

Let's judge it after a dozen games. We could be this season's Coventry or we can carry on wetting the bed after 2 ****ing games, up to you.


100% agreed

I made this post on another thread

Im not sure I saw the same game as some on here ( and on the Call Rob radio show, dont normally listen to that, is it always as negative ? ? )

1st 30 mins were we not great, but neither were QPR

1st goal they scored, Should have never have been robbed like that, 2nd goal, you have to win that slide tackle or at least bring the player down, dont let them skip past you

we hit the crossbar twice, had a few a very decent chances

Rambo looked like he was 100% committed to win, Ollie came on and as ive said in the past, he is exciting, he runs at players

on another day, we have won this game, and we would be thinking everything is good

I came away discussing it with my 2 daughters and it was all positive and I stand by that

Another 24 hours on and I still took positives out of the game, Rambo looked well up for it, if people had doubts he was here just to go through the motions, it certainly looked like he wasnt yesterday

Of course you cant forget on here, we have people who are just negative towards the club by nature, they love to look for reasons to moan, but they are what they are :shrug:

If one of them shots that hit the crossbar had gone in, its a different result

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Fair, NW freshened up an underperforming team and struck gold from the off. He added 3 new faces to a stale team. This team has been thrown together over a couple of months.

We used to have a chant "get into them, fck them up", which can be taken to an extreme, but I remember it being a regular over the years when teams have sat back and invited teams to do what they want.

I'm not pointing fingers but if the new conductor gets the same tune out of the same orchestra, either he's the same as the other conductors or there's nothing more the orchestra can do individually.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It was a desperate performance

It would have been good to see some fight and some patterns of play

I was very surprised City were not up for this game

We were not unlucky , we were poor and deserved to lose

It was back down to earth with a bump and I think after so many years of rubbish people expected a gutsy performance

But we lay down yet again

[Wash DC Blue]

We were absolutely terrible yesterday.
We might learn something from it but it was a dire, toothless performance.

Still, early doors no need for bed wetting just yet and hopefully we can strengthen in a few areas.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It was like a delta blues death march behind the band

New Orleans

And we were late

[Don Corleone]

I expected us to start fast and on the front foot and take the game to a team who lost 4-0 last week, have been in freefall for some time and must have been low on confidence. If we got caught on the break so be it but at least have a go at them in the first home game of the season.

I expected to see the ball got forward to Grant and Bowler quickly, for them to take on their man and get dangerous crosses in.

Instead we started so slowly and played so negatively that we allowed QPR to grow and then dominate that first half .

I know it takes some time to gel as a team but surely it’s not asking too much to start the first home game of the season at a much higher tempo .

We got better when Adams went off injured and Robinson came on and suddenly Ramsey had someone who was on the same wavelength as him. Thing is , that substitution wasn’t planned but hopefully Bulut and the coaching team have learnt something and will build on it for future games.

To be honest I’m getting very fed up of the away teams fans, players and managers celebrating wildly in that corner of the stadium at the end of games, it’s becoming a very regular occurrence in recent years!

[Des Parrot]

I expected us to start fast and on the front foot and take the game to a team who lost 4-0 last week, have been in freefall for some time and must have been low on confidence. If we got caught on the break so be it but at least have a go at them in the first home game of the season.

I expected to see the ball got forward to Grant and Bowler quickly, for them to take on their man and get dangerous crosses in.

Instead we started so slowly and played so negatively that we allowed QPR to grow and then dominate that first half .

I know it takes some time to gel as a team but surely it’s not asking too much to start the first home game of the season at a much higher tempo .

We got better when Adams went off injured and Robinson came on and suddenly Ramsey had someone who was on the same wavelength as him. Thing is , that substitution wasn’t planned but hopefully Bulut and the coaching team have learnt something and will build on it for future games.

To be honest I’m getting very fed up of the away teams fans, players and managers celebrating wildly in that corner of the stadium at the end of games, it’s becoming a very regular occurrence in recent years!

Well said. I can’t add too much to that. We need some signs of change from the malaise of the last 3 seasons

[Dave Blue]

I expected us to start fast and on the front foot and take the game to a team who lost 4-0 last week, have been in freefall for some time and must have been low on confidence. If we got caught on the break so be it but at least have a go at them in the first home game of the season.

I expected to see the ball got forward to Grant and Bowler quickly, for them to take on their man and get dangerous crosses in.

Instead we started so slowly and played so negatively that we allowed QPR to grow and then dominate that first half .

I know it takes some time to gel as a team but surely it’s not asking too much to start the first home game of the season at a much higher tempo .

We got better when Adams went off injured and Robinson came on and suddenly Ramsey had someone who was on the same wavelength as him. Thing is , that substitution wasn’t planned but hopefully Bulut and the coaching team have learnt something and will build on it for future games.

To be honest I’m getting very fed up of the away teams fans, players and managers celebrating wildly in that corner of the stadium at the end of games, it’s becoming a very regular occurrence in recent years!

This is a great summing up, totally agree.

[Des Parrot]

If you are basing your opinion on the bookies then us getting 3 points against QPR is pretty far from being in the bag. I'm not sure if I expect any result in this league, especially in August

Nothing to do with the bookies. QPR are the worst form team in the division is 2023, having only won 3 out of 21 games. They got thrashed by Watford in their first game and their own fans expect them to be relegated. It was a game where City could & should have gone for the throat, instead of being passive. Of all of the home games this season, it should have been a priority to bag the win.

[Father Dougal]

Fair, NW freshened up an underperforming team and struck gold from the off. He added 3 new faces to a stale team. This team has been thrown together over a couple of months.

Great point. We can all remember walking into and walking away from that friday night Bristol game under neil thinking this is different, this is going to be fun. Was instant.

Balls to needing time to gel. I don't buy it.

All we got from bulut was the players were nervous and he doesn't know why. Promising!

[Father Dougal]

Nothing to do with the bookies. QPR are the worst form team in the division is 2023, having only won 3 out of 21 games. They got thrashed by Watford in their first game and their own fans expect them to be relegated. It was a game where City could & should have gone for the throat, instead of being passive. Of all of the home games this season, it should have been a priority to bag the win.

They lost 5 0 to Oxford in their final pre season game also with their strongest side.

They are awful.

[the other bob wilson]

I reckon Bulut would have been really shocked by that performance and I’m not blaming him much for it, but I challenge any City fan who has watched us play at home over the past three seasons to say it came as a total shock to them. Blue Matt says he thought the first thirty minutes were pretty even, I didn’t- I’m not claiming any special expertise, but I had a good idea about what was going to happen after ten minutes as QPR, just like virtually every side that comes here were given plenty of opportunity to knock the ball around under minimum pressure by a City side that always forgoes the advantages that playing at home should give you.

We’ve been starting our home games like an away team for far longer than the last three seasons - you would have thought by now that the penny would have dropped that it doesn’t work, but I’m starting to believe the players can’t help themselves. I’m deadly serious when I talk about the need to consult a sports psychologist about our home performances. We’re not talking about seven home league games here, we’re talking about seventy of them in which we’ve been beaten thirty four times, while winning twenty two, this is a long term problem, not a panic reaction after two matches!

[Carl Dale's Mole]

I blame the drums.

[Nobody's Rep]

I blame the drums.

Well it's their turn as everyone else has had the fault between sat and this morning

I blame the fans for not turning up in their thousands and scaring the feck out of the opposition as that was what worked during the old days apparently

Oh by the way there were no drums on Saturday

[Carl Dale's Mole]

Oh by the way there were no drums on Saturday

I know. That's why I blame them. For not being there.

No drums = shit atmosphere = a team that isn't up for it = a team that doesn't close down the opposition effectively.

I rest my case and I win the blame game.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

I reckon Bulut would have been really shocked by that performance and I’m not blaming him much for it, but I challenge any City fan who has watched us play at home over the past three seasons to say it came as a total shock to them. Blue Matt says he thought the first thirty minutes were pretty even, I didn’t- I’m not claiming any special expertise, but I had a good idea about what was going to happen after ten minutes as QPR, just like virtually every side that comes here were given plenty of opportunity to knock the ball around under minimum pressure by a City side that always forgoes the advantages that playing at home should give you.

We’ve been starting our home games like an away team for far longer than the last three seasons - you would have thought by now that the penny would have dropped that it doesn’t work, but I’m starting to believe the players can’t help themselves. I’m deadly serious when I talk about the need to consult a sports psychologist about our home performances. We’re not talking about seven home league games here, we’re talking about seventy of them in which we’ve been beaten thirty four times, while winning twenty two, this is a long term problem, not a panic reaction after two matches!

I think QPR knocked the ball around because we can't. It goes back nearly two seasons, but it's the same - we play 'table football', where the players are all in fixed positions and just pass it to each other. People have to grasp that our players in the main, are league 1 and could probably pass it around a bit against league 1 mid table teams. Yesterday QPR sat back [or were forced to sit back], and we had a bit of room that we couldn't make previously. But as your report says, that 'last 10-15 minute' charge' we've been accustomed to in recent seasons rarely produces anything positive.

[Harry Lime]

I expected us to start fast and on the front foot and take the game to a team who lost 4-0 last week, have been in freefall for some time and must have been low on confidence. If we got caught on the break so be it but at least have a go at them in the first home game of the season.

I expected to see the ball got forward to Grant and Bowler quickly, for them to take on their man and get dangerous crosses in.

Instead we started so slowly and played so negatively that we allowed QPR to grow and then dominate that first half .

I know it takes some time to gel as a team but surely it’s not asking too much to start the first home game of the season at a much higher tempo .

We got better when Adams went off injured and Robinson came on and suddenly Ramsey had someone who was on the same wavelength as him. Thing is , that substitution wasn’t planned but hopefully Bulut and the coaching team have learnt something and will build on it for future games.

To be honest I’m getting very fed up of the away teams fans, players and managers celebrating wildly in that corner of the stadium at the end of games, it’s becoming a very regular occurrence in recent years!

Yes I agree it was poor, really poor. I was referring to people practically writing off the season already. I expected some inconsistencies early season but let's see where we are at the end of September. I'm guessing somewhere between Saturday and the first 45 minutes six days earlier.

[ToTaL ITK]

To all you positive Percy's we didn't get shite overnight, this has been gradually getting worse since our last jaunt in the Prem. The club doesn't seem to able to learn how to successfully run a football club and doesn't seem willing to either.

[Bobby Dandruff]

Better. That’s what I expected.

With a number of new players in attacking positions, I didn’t expect the first home game of the season to be a carbon copy of the rubbish that was served up last season. But unfortunately that’s precisely what we got.

Of course we should.

After a summer of signing players that people have actually heard of, versus the supermarket sweep of last summer, it is understandable that we might expect better.

It will be interesting to see what happens at Leicester now - were the 2 scrappy goals at Leeds and the inevitable capitulation part of a tactical master plan that nearly came off or just really lucky and more typical of how the team will perform this season?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Nothing to do with the bookies. QPR are the worst form team in the division is 2023, having only won 3 out of 21 games.

One of which was a 2-1 win at champions Burnley, who had won 16 times in a 21 game unbeaten run.

QPR themselves had won a feeble 14 points in 27 Championship games before going to Turf Moor. They would then win at Stoke to ensure survival.

While it's easy to say they were dog shit for a long time, they found a way to get two good away wins to stay up, in fact found a way to remain unbeaten for their last 3 away games. The result at Burnley was totally unexpected, but by Championship standards, nobody should have been surprised.

Thoughts that we would steam roller QPR were maybe a bit misplaced. I expected us to beat them but in a close game.

[Bobby Dandruff]

One of which was a 2-1 win at champions Burnley, who had won 16 times in a 21 game unbeaten run.

QPR themselves had won a feeble 14 points in 27 Championship games before going to Turf Moor. They would then win at Stoke to ensure survival.

While it's easy to say they were dog shit for a long time, they found a way to get two good away wins to stay up, in fact found a way to remain unbeaten for their last 3 away games. The result at Burnley was totally unexpected, but by Championship standards, nobody should have been surprised.

Thoughts that we would steam roller QPR were maybe a bit misplaced. I expected us to beat them but in a close game.

I listened to a few reports of their game on the first weekend and every pundit had already condemned them saying that they had serious problems.

[dandywarhol]

I thought we looked better when Adams went off. Robinson, Collins and Tanner made a difference. We did hit the woodwork twice.Argee the play was poor before that.

[blue matt]

Blue Matt says he thought the first thirty minutes were pretty even,

Just as a note, I said


1st 30 mins were we not great, but neither were QPR



At no point did I say it was pretty even, We could all see they had the upper hand in the 1st 30 mins, But I stand by what I said, We were not great, but neither were QPR, we hardly made them look like world beaters, they were 1st to most balls and probed down our wings ( especially our right , where I guess they thought we had a weakness ) but it was far from a massacre people are making out

on the flip side, the last 20 ( maybe 25 ) we looked much better than them, almost a constant attack

[the other bob wilson]

Just as a note, I said




At no point did I say it was pretty even, We could all see they had the upper hand in the 1st 30 mins, But I stand by what I said, We were not great, but neither were QPR, we hardly made them look like world beaters, they were 1st to most balls and probed down our wings ( especially our right , where I guess they thought we had a weakness ) but it was far from a massacre people are making out

on the flip side, the last 20 ( maybe 25 ) we looked much better than them, almost a constant attack

I think most people would have jumped to the same conclusion I did when they read what you said when, in actual fact, you thought they were the better side. I agree it wasn’t a massacre, don’t think it was ever going to be that for either side, but, as Eric said, I think it was realistic to expect a narrow City win beforehand. Instead, what we got is what we have got for three seasons now, nothing for about 85 per cent of the game, then a mad last fifteen minutes or so in which we hurl everything bar the kitchen sink at the opposition because we’re losing in an almost always vain attempt to salvage a point.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Frankly astonished by the overwhelming negative reaction here, even from seasoned fans and messageboard doyerns. What on earth did you expect?

No I'm not astonished really. We'll sign a few players this week and next stop who knows.

Let's judge it after a dozen games. We could be this season's Coventry or we can carry on wetting the bed after 2 ****ing games, up to you.

I don't expect us to gift teams two goals a game in three competitive games in a row and in most of the friendlies, we can't score three so will lose almost every game this season unless Bulut can sort it out, which reading his comments I don't think he can.

We've just played the weakest team in the League who will almost certainly go down at home and were two nil down with twenty-five minutes to go, I wasn't expecting that either.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Nothing to do with the bookies. QPR are the worst form team in the division is 2023, having only won 3 out of 21 games. They got thrashed by Watford in their first game and their own fans expect them to be relegated. It was a game where City could & should have gone for the throat, instead of being passive. Of all of the home games this season, it should have been a priority to bag the win.

The friendly before Watford they lost five nil to Oxford, they are absolutely rubbish, and so were we.

[North Cardiff Blue]

I reckon Bulut would have been really shocked by that performance and I’m not blaming him much for it, but I challenge any City fan who has watched us play at home over the past three seasons to say it came as a total shock to them. Blue Matt says he thought the first thirty minutes were pretty even, I didn’t- I’m not claiming any special expertise, but I had a good idea about what was going to happen after ten minutes as QPR, just like virtually every side that comes here were given plenty of opportunity to knock the ball around under minimum pressure by a City side that always forgoes the advantages that playing at home should give you.

We’ve been starting our home games like an away team for far longer than the last three seasons - you would have thought by now that the penny would have dropped that it doesn’t work, but I’m starting to believe the players can’t help themselves. I’m deadly serious when I talk about the need to consult a sports psychologist about our home performances. We’re not talking about seven home league games here, we’re talking about seventy of them in which we’ve been beaten thirty four times, while winning twenty two, this is a long term problem, not a panic reaction after two matches!

The first thing every single team we play will do, is press high up the pitch when they try to play the ball out, and pick up an easy goal from a miss pass, if he tries that again at Leicester we will concede four or more.

[jon1959]

I reckon Bulut would have been really shocked by that performance and I’m not blaming him much for it, but I challenge any City fan who has watched us play at home over the past three seasons to say it came as a total shock to them. Blue Matt says he thought the first thirty minutes were pretty even, I didn’t- I’m not claiming any special expertise, but I had a good idea about what was going to happen after ten minutes as QPR, just like virtually every side that comes here were given plenty of opportunity to knock the ball around under minimum pressure by a City side that always forgoes the advantages that playing at home should give you.

We’ve been starting our home games like an away team for far longer than the last three seasons - you would have thought by now that the penny would have dropped that it doesn’t work, but I’m starting to believe the players can’t help themselves. I’m deadly serious when I talk about the need to consult a sports psychologist about our home performances. We’re not talking about seven home league games here, we’re talking about seventy of them in which we’ve been beaten thirty four times, while winning twenty two, this is a long term problem, not a panic reaction after two matches!

I agree with most of that but at the same time we started with 6 players who had never experienced a home game at the CCS before (5 new signings plus Adams) and an almost totally new managerial/coaching team. Not sure how often Alnwick played at the CCS last season either. So why does the experience and attitude of previous seasons carry over? It can't all be down to Tom Ramasut!

[the other bob wilson]

I agree with most of that but at the same time we started with 6 players who had never experienced a home game at the CCS before (5 new signings plus Adams) and an almost totally new managerial/coaching team. Not sure how often Alnwick played at the CCS last season either. So why does the experience and attitude of previous seasons carry over? It can't all be down to Tom Ramasut!

Players like Ng, Wintle and McGuinness have all been here for a few years or so now, yet they’ve never known a time when we’ve had what could be called a normal home record whereby more home games are won than lost, as has been the case in the sixty seasons I’ve been supporting the club. The stats say that in the time they’ve been at Cardiff, a home game is more likely to be lost than won - the same applies with someone like Rubin Colwill. You’ve also got the players who came in last summer - we’ve only won a quarter of our home games since they’ve arrived. We had more than half of the starting eleven who’ve been here long enough to have experienced much more failure at Cardiff City Stadium than success and they wouldn’t be human if a thought of “here we go again” hadn’t crossed their mind at some time as we struggled to impose ourselves on the game in the early minutes on Saturday- that’s exactly what I was thinking as I watched it.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I listened to a few reports of their game on the first weekend and every pundit had already condemned them saying that they had serious problems.

And, as usual for the Championship, the pundits end up with egg on their face.

I'm not trying to gloss over what was a garbage performance, but if I had a tenner for every pundit who had written off a team in this division which then did ok, I'd probably have over a grand in the bank.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The friendly before Watford they lost five nil to Oxford, they are absolutely rubbish, and so were we.

I remember us shipping 6 at Stockport in a pre season friendly. Why anyone gives any credibility to friendly results is beyond me.

[North Cardiff Blue]

I remember us shipping 6 at Stockport in a pre season friendly. Why anyone gives any credibility to friendly results is beyond me.

When it's followed up by a four nil stuffing in the league it shows a pattern, how anyone can't see that is beyond me.

[Moodybluebird]

Well at least there hasn't been a false dawn......the sun hasn't come out yet. Hopefully, it will soon. Keep the faith.

[blue matt]

Well at least there hasn't been a false dawn......the sun hasn't come out yet. Hopefully, it will soon. Keep the faith.

dont worry, when the sun does comes out, it'll be way too hot for some on here

[Bobby Dandruff]

When it's followed up by a four nil stuffing in the league it shows a pattern, how anyone can't see that is beyond me.

One of the blokes on VFTN podcast made the interesting suggestion: that QPR were like us at Leeds - poor but somehow grabbed two goals, with the difference being that Leeds were good enough to overcome two daft goals conceded whereas we aren’t/weren’t!

[Jordi Culé]

To keep up a tenuous link of the thread title...

Next '2 games' (league)...

Leicester away - currently 2nd, anyone see City scabbing a point?
Sheffield Wednesday home - need a win?

Next '2 games'...

Ipswich away - currently 1st, anyone see City scabbing a point there?
Jacks home - I expect the usual shiit show for this.

Bulut needs time but it's only being realistic to say by the time we get to 10 to 12 games into the season, City could be in the shiit and in the relegation zone.

I'm a misery guts.

[J R Hartley]

To keep up a tenuous link of the thread title...

Next '2 games' (league)...

Leicester away - currently 2nd, anyone see City scabbing a point?
Sheffield Wednesday home - need a win?

Next '2 games'...

Ipswich away - currently 1st, anyone see City scabbing a point there?
Jacks home - I expect the usual shiit show for this.

Bulut needs time but it's only being realistic to say by the time we get to 10 to 12 games into the season, City could be in the shiit and in the relegation zone.

I'm a misery guts.

Meanwhile the Mighty Martyrs are top of the league :music:

[Tuerto]

Interesting thread is this. People are castigating the performance more than the result from what i'm reading. I wonder what the reaction would have been like if we'd scraped a win playing like that? A bit different i would have thought, although i'm quite certain that certain posters who are in a minority on here would have picked up on the performance.

Thing is, when people (and not that many) were showing concern over how we performed under Warnock, it was knocked back. Football is all about winning, the performance is secondary, that was the general retort. Thing is, no club on this planet can consistently perform poorly and win games, it's short term, you're going to get found out. And when you do, the fall from grace is quick and clinical, as we've seen ever since we came down from the premier league. No club can prosper playing the way we have, no club can prosper the way we have carried out our recruitment process, we end up with what happened last season. That's the trade off folks, for lazy backward spoil tactics Hail Mary football. So for those who weren't bothered about how we played when we were generally getting the results we wanted, then Saturday was for you. Enjoy.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Interesting thread is this. People are castigating the performance more than the result from what i'm reading. I wonder what the reaction would have been like if we'd scraped a win playing like that? A bit different i would have thought, although i'm quite certain that certain posters who are in a minority on here would have picked up on the performance.

Thing is, when people (and not that many) were showing concern over how we performed under Warnock, it was knocked back. Football is all about winning, the performance is secondary, that was the general retort. Thing is, no club on this planet can consistently perform poorly and win games, it's short term, you're going to get found out. And when you do, the fall from grace is quick and clinical, as we've seen ever since we came down from the premier league. No club can prosper playing the way we have, no club can prosper the way we have carried out our recruitment process, we end up with what happened last season. That's the trade off folks, for lazy backward spoil tactics Hail Mary football. So for those who weren't bothered about how we played when we were generally getting the results we wanted, then Saturday was for you. Enjoy.

Under Warnock, in the main the football wasn't too bad, at times pretty good. Those who [mostly] retrospectively lambast 'Warnockball' are critical of the style of play. The last 2 seasons it's more a case of the players just not being good enough to play any particular style.

[Tuerto]

Under Warnock, in the main the football wasn't too bad, at times pretty good. Those who [mostly] retrospectively lambast 'Warnockball' are critical of the style of play. The last 2 seasons it's more a case of the players just not being good enough to play any particular style.

I don't agree. After the Leeds home game where we murdered them in every category, things started to change. Gone was the quick counter attacking football,getting the ball wide quickly, using pace to stretch the opposition. We slowly reverted to a team intent on winning by any means necessary and relied heavily on set pieces. That's not to say that we didn't have our moments, but a lot of it was dire. Players refusal to hold onto the ball,no movement, keep shape, give the ball straight back to the opposition with absolutely no intention of attempting to keep the ball or play through whoever we were playing against. Warnock shut it down and held out for free kicks and goals on the break,. It worked, but at the same time caused so much damage, it was never going to be sustainable or grow into anything.

The point i was making isn't really about Warnock though, it's about performance, which seems to be the general point people are making in this thread. We should have been calling it out years ago, but most of us didn't, some of us celebrated the fact that the brand of football we were churning out was at times, based on a method where the players on the pitch didn't even want to engage, the boxing equivalent of a fighter who just wants to hold his opponent for ten rounds and hopes for that one punch that can get the knock out.

Someone said that this has been happening for years. It has, and i understand why people are a bit pissed off, it's a new season, we all look forward to seeing something better, and i do believe that Bulut should be given time. But is he going to over turn 5 years of grunt football in one pre season? not a chance in hell.

[blue matt]

Interesting thread is this. People are castigating the performance more than the result from what i'm reading. I wonder what the reaction would have been like if we'd scraped a win playing like that? A bit different i would have thought, although i'm quite certain that certain posters who are in a minority on here would have picked up on the performance.

Thing is, when people (and not that many) were showing concern over how we performed under Warnock, it was knocked back. Football is all about winning, the performance is secondary, that was the general retort. Thing is, no club on this planet can consistently perform poorly and win games, it's short term, you're going to get found out. And when you do, the fall from grace is quick and clinical, as we've seen ever since we came down from the premier league. No club can prosper playing the way we have, no club can prosper the way we have carried out our recruitment process, we end up with what happened last season. That's the trade off folks, for lazy backward spoil tactics Hail Mary football. So for those who weren't bothered about how we played when we were generally getting the results we wanted, then Saturday was for you. Enjoy.

Apart from the 1st 1/2 hour, our performance wasnt that bad imho, they scored 2 ( which imho were both preventable, the 1st a mistake, the 2nd a poor decision to slide in like that ) , I was sat next to some bloke in 109 that was screaming loads of " advice " at the players, most of it dire rubbish

When Ollie and Rubes came on, you must be blind to have missed some cracking exciting football, on a different day we could have scored a few during them last 20 mins, QPR were on the rope

you are right Tuerto, think back to the later Warnock time, just get the ball forward, hope for a free kick or Corner and try and score from that, it was rubbish, I hope we never see that rubbish again, if Bulut has a idea to play like we did in the last 20 mins, then great stuff, I'm happy with that

[Trigger]

It's more the continuation of us bending over at home.

Almost unbelievable home form over the last couple of seasons.

I wasn't one getting carried away by our signings but I can understand those that were, everyone just wants to feel positive about the club but they just continually make it difficult.

We will of course know more after 10 matches. Really hoping Bulut can do well as he seems a good character and far more engaging but if he doesn't perform he probably won't see out Christmas.

[dandywarhol]

Two games to the transfer window.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Interesting thread is this. People are castigating the performance more than the result from what i'm reading. I wonder what the reaction would have been like if we'd scraped a win playing like that? A bit different i would have thought, although i'm quite certain that certain posters who are in a minority on here would have picked up on the performance.

Thing is, when people (and not that many) were showing concern over how we performed under Warnock, it was knocked back. Football is all about winning, the performance is secondary, that was the general retort. Thing is, no club on this planet can consistently perform poorly and win games, it's short term, you're going to get found out. And when you do, the fall from grace is quick and clinical, as we've seen ever since we came down from the premier league. No club can prosper playing the way we have, no club can prosper the way we have carried out our recruitment process, we end up with what happened last season. That's the trade off folks, for lazy backward spoil tactics Hail Mary football. So for those who weren't bothered about how we played when we were generally getting the results we wanted, then Saturday was for you. Enjoy.

Warnock got results and points

It was also often exciting , with goalmouth action , penalty shouts

I didn't hear anything at all from your gang on here when warnock had us on the front foot

We needed some warnock bottle on Saturday as the manager was right , we were either playing out too slowly from the back or not getting stuck into them in midfield

[Blooburd]

the inevitable white knights racing in with threads like this are almost as comical as the doom sayers :popcorn:

[Tuerto]

Warnock got results and points

It was also often exciting , with goalmouth action , penalty shouts

I didn't hear anything at all from your gang on here when warnock had us on the front foot

We needed some warnock bottle on Saturday as the manager was right , we were either playing out too slowly from the back or not getting stuck into them in midfield

I said plenty on here during the Warnock period, be my guest. And I reckon I called it right in saying that his short termism will put the club in a poor position. You were just tossing off over grown men grunting and lumping.....

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I said plenty on here during the Warnock period, be my guest. And I reckon I called it right in saying that his short termism will put the club in a poor position. You were just tossing off over grown men grunting and lumping.....

Go on then

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

the inevitable white knights racing in with threads like this are almost as comical as the doom sayers :popcorn:

I didn't get where I am today without advocating total football !

[llan bluebird]

We got promoted because teams with better squads were trying to play "the right way" with players incapable of doing that.

As football is a copycat game, loads of clubs are trying to get the same type of players to play the same type of watered-down Pep-ball so their costs increase. We tried to do this with lower league freebies and wondered why we are crap.

The Jacks were a decade ahead of the game when they went for smaller unwanted athletes but technical footballers, now those players are en vogue.

Warnock didn't buy into this and played with pace, power and trickery up top, dogs in the middle, and a stay-at-home back four, getting the ball to those who can damage the opposition and be good at defending and attacking set plays. Its not trendy but effective.

Bulut learned that NG cannot travel with the ball, Wintle can barely pass beyond 10M's and our inside forwards need the ball without the opposition having so much time they were waiting for them in pairs.

Bulut ball with this lot will get him sacked by bonfire night. Hopefully, he recruits his type of player or adapts

[The Lone Gunman]

Warnock didn't buy into this and played with pace, power and trickery up top, dogs in the middle, and a stay-at-home back four, getting the ball to those who can damage the opposition and be good at defending and attacking set plays. Its not trendy but effective.

Not proving so effective for him this season, is it?

[llan bluebird]

Not proving so effective for him this season, is it?

I have no idea if his current club has the same level of resources/talent as we did.

It's about what players you have and working out how to maximise them. Trying to play a very technical system with players incapable of delivering is the quickest way to the sack.

[goats]

To keep up a tenuous link of the thread title...

Next '2 games' (league)...

Leicester away - currently 2nd, anyone see City scabbing a point?
Sheffield Wednesday home - need a win?

Next '2 games'...

Ipswich away - currently 1st, anyone see City scabbing a point there?
Jacks home - I expect the usual shiit show for this.

Bulut needs time but it's only being realistic to say by the time we get to 10 to 12 games into the season, City could be in the shiit and in the relegation zone.

I'm a misery guts.

Lose at home to sheff weds who I def expect to struggle and I think we will be in real trouble as I can’t see us getting any points at Leicester, Ipswich or at home to the jacks….

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

We got promoted because teams with better squads were trying to play "the right way" with players incapable of doing that.

As football is a copycat game, loads of clubs are trying to get the same type of players to play the same type of watered-down Pep-ball so their costs increase. We tried to do this with lower league freebies and wondered why we are crap.

The Jacks were a decade ahead of the game when they went for smaller unwanted athletes but technical footballers, now those players are en vogue.

Warnock didn't buy into this and played with pace, power and trickery up top, dogs in the middle, and a stay-at-home back four, getting the ball to those who can damage the opposition and be good at defending and attacking set plays. Its not trendy but effective.

Bulut learned that NG cannot travel with the ball, Wintle can barely pass beyond 10M's and our inside forwards need the ball without the opposition having so much time they were waiting for them in pairs.

Bulut ball with this lot will get him sacked by bonfire night. Hopefully, he recruits his type of player or adapts

I think warnockball , with a few adaptations , is fantastic

If bulut has to be using a variation of this , given our limitations .....and it keeps us in the Championship.....I couldn't give a toss

[the other bob wilson]

We got promoted because teams with better squads were trying to play "the right way" with players incapable of doing that.

As football is a copycat game, loads of clubs are trying to get the same type of players to play the same type of watered-down Pep-ball so their costs increase. We tried to do this with lower league freebies and wondered why we are crap.

The Jacks were a decade ahead of the game when they went for smaller unwanted athletes but technical footballers, now those players are en vogue.

Warnock didn't buy into this and played with pace, power and trickery up top, dogs in the middle, and a stay-at-home back four, getting the ball to those who can damage the opposition and be good at defending and attacking set plays. Its not trendy but effective.

Bulut learned that NG cannot travel with the ball, Wintle can barely pass beyond 10M's and our inside forwards need the ball without the opposition having so much time they were waiting for them in pairs.

Bulut ball with this lot will get him sacked by bonfire night. Hopefully, he recruits his type of player or adapts

You’re only telling half of the Warnock story there though, it was downhill all of the way after 17/18 andhis summer 2019 recruitment aimed at a continuance of his favoured style of play was fundamental in sealing our decline as a team - Warnock’s football is effective up to a point, but the fact he never stays anywhere that long generally suggests its limitations start to become apparent once the impact of his considerable man management skills start to wear off.

I don’t agree with this stuff that we’re such a poor squad, our away record has been better than what you’d expect from a team in our finishing position in the last three seasons, but, for whatever reason, we’ve become a team which is often beaten before a ball is kicked when we play at home.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

We got promoted because teams with better squads were trying to play "the right way" with players incapable of doing that.

As football is a copycat game, loads of clubs are trying to get the same type of players to play the same type of watered-down Pep-ball so their costs increase. We tried to do this with lower league freebies and wondered why we are crap.

The Jacks were a decade ahead of the game when they went for smaller unwanted athletes but technical footballers, now those players are en vogue.

Warnock didn't buy into this and played with pace, power and trickery up top, dogs in the middle, and a stay-at-home back four, getting the ball to those who can damage the opposition and be good at defending and attacking set plays. Its not trendy but effective.

Bulut learned that NG cannot travel with the ball, Wintle can barely pass beyond 10M's and our inside forwards need the ball without the opposition having so much time they were waiting for them in pairs.

Bulut ball with this lot will get him sacked by bonfire night. Hopefully, he recruits his type of player or adapts

Agree with this.

[llan bluebird]

You’re only telling half of the Warnock story there though, it was downhill all of the way after 17/18 andhis summer 2019 recruitment aimed at a continuance of his favoured style of play was fundamental in sealing our decline as a team - Warnock’s football is effective up to a point, but the fact he never stays anywhere that long generally suggests its limitations start to become apparent once the impact of his considerable man management skills start to wear off.

I don’t agree with this stuff that we’re such a poor squad, our away record has been better than what you’d expect from a team in our finishing position in the last three seasons, but, for whatever reason, we’ve become a team which is often beaten before a ball is kicked when we play at home.

I am not defending Warnock, but highlighting that expecting Perry NG and his ilk to do the same things as Vincent Kompany or even John Stones is insane. They are not good enough, if they were they'd be in the top half of the premier league.

Warnock played championship football with championship footballers, not champions league football with championship footballers. Its doesn't have to be mindless longball, in most cases it was rope a dope counter-attacking, although when the pressure was on, it did become a bit whack it upfield, but the first third of the promotion season was excellent.

I believe if we do not get new recruits this is a 442 diamond squad capable of decent results, but inverted fullbacks looks fanciful at the moment

[The Lone Gunman]

I am not defending Warnock, but highlighting that expecting Perry NG and his ilk to do the same things as Vincent Kompany or even John Stones is insane.

Nobody on Planet Earth expects that. Suggesting anyone does is insane.

[the other bob wilson]

I am not defending Warnock, but highlighting that expecting Perry NG and his ilk to do the same things as Vincent Kompany or even John Stones is insane. They are not good enough, if they were they'd be in the top half of the premier league.

Warnock played championship football with championship footballers, not champions league football with championship footballers. Its doesn't have to be mindless longball, in most cases it was rope a dope counter-attacking, although when the pressure was on, it did become a bit whack it upfield, but the first third of the promotion season was excellent.

I believe if we do not get new recruits this is a 442 diamond squad capable of decent results, but inverted fullbacks looks fanciful at the moment

In the Championship. it's a question of degree - there's no one trying to play like the Barcelona of ten years ago or the Man City of today, but, because Championship sides cannot do that, it doesn't mean that the only alternative is playing like we have done for so much of our recent history.

I don't understand why every side, and I mean every side, that visits Cardiff City Stadium in a league game these days looks more comfortable in the opening stages than we do - all of them are, to varying degrees, more capable of knocking the ball around while showing an element of control than we are. In a division where plenty of sides play in a direct manner to some extent, it seems most still have the capability to pass the ball accurately - we manage to do that at times away from home, but it's the same old over the shoulder hooks and passes a yard off the ground fired at team mates in the first quarter especially of games at Cardiff.

As mentioned elsewhere, the really good football tended to stop in our promotion season once Zohore got his injury and reverted to his normal self (credit to Warnock though for, somehow, getting that golden period of just short of a year out of him though, because no one else has). Mendez-Laing dropping back from his electric early form didn't help either and, although there were still good performances along the way from time to time, i became more about things like bloody mindedness and doing well at set pieces for at least the last half of that season.

On the subject of Perry Ng, there is an area of the pitch on our right about thirty five yards from goal which you could almost mark with an x from where I would say he's as good as anyone in the division at crossing the ball. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but when he crosses from that area, I start to think, we could be in business here. I'm still struggling to see what the point of inverted full backs are, apart from it meaning that Ng gets into that position a little more, but he was doing that when we were playing with three centrebacks and, in the absence of someone capable of playing in a two to put pressure on Goutas and McGuinness, I'd witch Ng to centreback and play with a three, but Bulut's not going to do that any time soon.

[Rjk]

In the Championship. it's a question of degree - there's no one trying to play like the Barcelona of ten years ago or the Man City of today, but, because Championship sides cannot do that, it doesn't mean that the only alternative is playing like we have done for so much of our recent history.

I don't understand why every side, and I mean every side, that visits Cardiff City Stadium in a league game these days looks more comfortable in the opening stages than we do - all of them are, to varying degrees, more capable of knocking the ball around while showing an element of control than we are. In a division where plenty of sides play in a direct manner to some extent, it seems most still have the capability to pass the ball accurately - we manage to do that at times away from home, but it's the same old over the shoulder hooks and passes a yard off the ground fired at team mates in the first quarter especially of games at Cardiff.

As mentioned elsewhere, the really good football tended to stop in our promotion season once Zohore got his injury and reverted to his normal self (credit to Warnock though for, somehow, getting that golden period of just short of a year out of him though, because no one else has). Mendez-Laing dropping back from his electric early form didn't help either and, although there were still good performances along the way from time to time, i became more about things like bloody mindedness and doing well at set pieces for at least the last half of that season.

On the subject of Perry Ng, there is an area of the pitch on our right about thirty five yards from goal which you could almost mark with an x from where I would say he's as good as anyone in the division at crossing the ball. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but when he crosses from that area, I start to think, we could be in business here. I'm still struggling to see what the point of inverted full backs are, apart from it meaning that Ng gets into that position a little more, but he was doing that when we were playing with three centrebacks and, in the absence of someone capable of playing in a two to put pressure on Goutas and McGuinness, I'd witch Ng to centreback and play with a three, but Bulut's not going to do that any time soon.

I'm not averse to a back 3, but we need genuine wingbacks to make that work, and ours don't really have the electric pace to be really effective as a wing back (O'dowda aside who would do a good job)

If we had Giles and Drameh here then that would definitely be the way to go
I think inverted fullbacks does make a lot of sense with Ng as it allows us to get him on the ball in areas where his passing can be dangerous and he has the 2 cbs behind him to cover.

He made some beautiful passes in the QPR game

[LA Bluebird]

I think Romeo is passable in that role when it comes to pace and fitness but he doesn’t have the creativity and crossing ability of NG. I think if you combined the two you’d have a very effective Championship fullback but individually both are a bit square peg round hole at this level.

[life on mars]

Folk are barmy .

That's why we sing barmy army .

We'd rather slag folk and players off ? than try bolster support . Saturday showed that .

[North Cardiff Blue]

Lose at home to sheff weds who I def expect to struggle and I think we will be in real trouble as I can’t see us getting any points at Leicester, Ipswich or at home to the jacks….

I mostly follow your view and I am worried, but then we do have a new Manager, a new team a new style of play, and a new philosophy.

If you've seen Mission to Burnley, they started fairly poorly, and then it started to click and they started to improve rapidly, I'm hopefully more than optimistic that may happen to us?

Although it has failed miserably every other time we've tried to play it out from the back and this doesn't look any different yet, but they are simple individual errors, just maybe Bulut and the players can stop them?

[North Cardiff Blue]

We got promoted because teams with better squads were trying to play "the right way" with players incapable of doing that.

As football is a copycat game, loads of clubs are trying to get the same type of players to play the same type of watered-down Pep-ball so their costs increase. We tried to do this with lower league freebies and wondered why we are crap.

The Jacks were a decade ahead of the game when they went for smaller unwanted athletes but technical footballers, now those players are en vogue.

Warnock didn't buy into this and played with pace, power and trickery up top, dogs in the middle, and a stay-at-home back four, getting the ball to those who can damage the opposition and be good at defending and attacking set plays. Its not trendy but effective.

Bulut learned that NG cannot travel with the ball, Wintle can barely pass beyond 10M's and our inside forwards need the ball without the opposition having so much time they were waiting for them in pairs.

Bulut ball with this lot will get him sacked by bonfire night. Hopefully, he recruits his type of player or adapts

Agreed it's not looking hopefully he can either improve them or get the players he needs?

[John Buchanan]

Agree with this.

Me too. Good post.

[Jordi Culé]

Lose at home to sheff weds who I def expect to struggle and I think we will be in real trouble as I can’t see us getting any points at Leicester, Ipswich or at home to the jacks….

You're not being a 'doomsayer' by having that opinion.

Just realistic.

City are 'work in progress', until the work starts producing results (if?) it's obvious they're going to struggle obtaining points.

Being a proper misery guts about it City's defence doesn't fill me with any confidence. Armstrong (QPR) basically run channels last weekend and had a load of joy due to poor positioning and a lack of pace.

[Rjk]

You're not being a 'doomsayer' by having that opinion.

Just realistic.

City are 'work in progress', until the work starts producing results (if?) it's obvious they're going to struggle obtaining points.

Being a proper misery guts about it City's defence doesn't fill me with any confidence. Armstrong (QPR) basically run channels last weekend and had a load of joy due to poor positioning and a lack of pace.

Yes we were exposed a few times in preseason by simple straight balls over the top

[Harry Lime]

Bump 👍

[Harry Lime]

Bump 👍

And grind 😉