View Full Version : The Greatest Player of all time
some say wins the BallonDor award again . what an achievement
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Messi Has won The Ballondor For the 8th Time<br>🐐Goat Messi 🔥<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BallonDor?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BallonDor</a><a href="https://t.co/8EWWvWoArF">pic.twitter.com/8EWWvWoArF</a></p>— VINEETH𓃵🦖 (@sololoveee) <a href="https://twitter.com/sololoveee/status/1719189515904991411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 31, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
the other bob wilson
31-10-23, 07:05
Was always a Maradona fan and I used to say Messi could not be the best ever while he didn't have a World Cup winner's medal, I'm not going to think up another reason now not to rate him as the best. I'm just old enough to have seen Pele at his best, but, even so, that still leaves not far short of a centuries worth of best players in the world I've never seen play. That's what makes best ever judgments virtually impossible, there are so many greats that we don't even have video of, but Messi is the best I've seen as I almost reach my three score years and ten.
Was always a Maradona fan and I used to say Messi could not be the best ever while he didn't have a World Cup winner's medal, I'm not going to think up another reason now not to rate him as the best. I'm just old enough to have seen Pele at his best, but, even so, that still leaves not far short of a centuries worth of best players in the world I've never seen play. That's what makes best ever judgments virtually impossible, there are so many greats that we don't even have video of, but Messi is the best I've seen as I almost reach my three score years and ten.
I always thought that winning/not winning the world cup was not the right reason to judge a player.
Had burrachaga missed in 1986 and higuain scored in 2014, those world cup trophies would be the other way round. How can Messi and Maradona be separated on that basis?
I always thought that winning/not winning the world cup was not the right reason to judge a player.
Had burrachaga missed in 1986 and higuain scored in 2014, those world cup trophies would be the other way round. How can Messi and Maradona be separated on that basis?
Going off on a tangent, I get equally perplexed by man of the match awards. Think it was the end of the Kilmarnock game on Sky, and the analysts gave the award to one of the goalscorers. When awarding it he said that he wasn't the best player on the pitch, but had the most decisive intervention.
the other bob wilson
31-10-23, 07:51
I always thought that winning/not winning the world cup was not the right reason to judge a player.
Had burrachaga missed in 1986 and higuain scored in 2014, those world cup trophies would be the other way round. How can Messi and Maradona be separated on that basis?
So we disagree then. Fair enough.
Haaland must be wondering what he's got to do to win it.
If the way to win the thing is to win the world cup then I doubt he will no matter what he does.
Few doubt how good Messi is but did he really have a better season than EH?
They have made it all about Messi and Ronaldo lately and the tag GOAT.
So we disagree then. Fair enough.
To be honest, I agree with Lardy. Some people, including Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves, rated John Charles as the greatest they had ever seen, and he never won a World Cup. If the criteria is that to be the best player in the world you have to have won the World Cup, that would restrict it top players from around 8 countries only
To be honest, I agree with Lardy. Some people, including Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves, rated John Charles as the greatest they had ever seen, and he never won a World Cup. If the criteria is that to be the best player in the world you have to have won the World Cup, that would restrict it top players from around 8 countries only
And only certain generations of those countries.
Maradonas performance in 1986 undoubtedly puts him right at the very best who have ever played, no doubt there. It's entirely justified. But if Argentina had lost the final, Maradona would still be exactly as good a player.
the other bob wilson
31-10-23, 09:29
To be honest, I agree with Lardy. Some people, including Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves, rated John Charles as the greatest they had ever seen, and he never won a World Cup. If the criteria is that to be the best player in the world you have to have won the World Cup, that would restrict it top players from around 8 countries only
The thread is titled best player of all time though and, until last year, that was Maradona for me,so, we’re talking about two players from the same country. Therefore, I thought the fact that one of them won a World Cup (no side that wins a World Cup can be called a one man team, but Argentina 1986 was the closest I’ve seen to one).That used to put Maradona over Messi for me, but I’ve changed my mind now because of Messi’s better club career.
Messi is clear in my opinion. Pele second.
I don't think Messi should have had the Ballon d'Or this year though, Haaland or Mbappe have a much better shout in my opinion.
splott parker
31-10-23, 10:21
Should be best player of ‘my lifetime’ not all time.So many great players from every era, players that, because of lack of footage, have no way of their case being put forward. This messageboard is a ‘best player of the last 50 years or so’ situation.
Should be best player of ‘my lifetime’ not all time.So many great players from every era, players that, because of lack of footage, have no way of their case being put forward. This messageboard is a ‘best player of the last 50 years or so’ situation.
Here we go, Dixie Dean again...
North Cardiff Blue
31-10-23, 10:32
To be honest, I agree with Lardy. Some people, including Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves, rated John Charles as the greatest they had ever seen, and he never won a World Cup. If the criteria is that to be the best player in the world you have to have won the World Cup, that would restrict it top players from around 8 countries only
Agreed the World Cup is won by the best Countries not the best players, if you're the best player in the World and from Pakistan you can't sign for Argentina or Brazil.
I'd say the best player is Messi followed by Maradona.
splott parker
31-10-23, 10:36
Here we go, Dixie Dean again...
Good shout, have a look at his goal scoring feats. In the British game there’s Billy Meredith, Alex James, Tommy Lawton etc etc. That’s aside from players from World Cup winners Uruguay, Italy, the great Magyars of the 50s. I’m blowing a trumpet for the oldies :hehe:
The World Cup thing is nonsense. George Best was close to being one of the best players in the world in his heyday. Even if he was head and shoulders above everyone else there was no way he was ever winning a World Cup.
the other bob wilson
31-10-23, 11:25
The World Cup thing is nonsense. George Best was close to being one of the best players in the world in his heyday. Even if he was head and shoulders above everyone else there was no way he was ever winning a World Cup.
I really wish I hadn’t said anything. Are we arguing then that if you are comparing two players from the same country which has won the World Cup twice, the fact that one of them had a winner’s medal which Argentina wouldn’t have won without him and the other had been a member of arguably better squads that had all failed in the competition should not be a factor when making a comparison between them?
I really wish I hadn’t said anything. Are we arguing then that if you are comparing two players from the same country which has won the World Cup twice, the fact that one of them had a winner’s medal which Argentina wouldn’t have won without him and the other had been a member of arguably better squads that had all failed in the competition should not be a factor when making a comparison between them?
It can be a factor, but I don't think it should be the deciding factor between the two, which is what I often see (or saw, anyway).
If Messi had never gone beyond the quarters then perhaps, but that's not the case. The difference boiled down to Burrachaga scoring and Higuain missing.
I really wish I hadn’t said anything. Are we arguing then that if you are comparing two players from the same country which has won the World Cup twice, the fact that one of them had a winner’s medal which Argentina wouldn’t have won without him and the other had been a member of arguably better squads that had all failed in the competition should not be a factor when making a comparison between them?
Yes. Because football is a team sport. What if Pele was from Ecuador instead of Brazil?
William Treseder
31-10-23, 13:03
We all know it’s all about opinions. In my humble opinion, it’s not even close between LM & DM.
I think Maradona is by far the best player I’ve seen so far.
Wash DC Blue
31-10-23, 15:01
Maradona all day for me.
Doing what he did for Napoli against Italian defences while having lumps kicked out of him week in week out.
It can be a factor, but I don't think it should be the deciding factor between the two, which is what I often see (or saw, anyway).
If Messi had never gone beyond the quarters then perhaps, but that's not the case. The difference boiled down to Burrachaga scoring and Higuain missing.
I think that Bob has a shout concerning Messi and Maradona because there are so many similarities involved, even down to their size and the way they played the game. To use a boxing analogy, the world winning thing could be demed the 12th round, between two brilliant performers who were, are head and shoulders above the rest. It all rests on the final round on who is deemed the best. Still not conclusive and only opinion, but perfectly reasonable when comparing maradona and messi (in my opinion)
It can be a factor, but I don't think it should be the deciding factor between the two, which is what I often see (or saw, anyway).
If Messi had never gone beyond the quarters then perhaps, but that's not the case. The difference boiled down to Burrachaga scoring and Higuain missing.
When would it be the deciding factor-Who decides?
We all know it’s all about opinions. In my humble opinion, it’s not even close between LM & DM.
I think Maradona is by far the best player I’ve seen so far.
I agree (not with the close bit though)
Maradona and Messi scored goals, but for me, the best player in my lifetime (ie who had the most influence in the team0 has to be
Cruyff.
Before my time, but Puskas and Di Stefano were rumoured to be rather good.
Maradona and Messi scored goals, but for me, the best player in my lifetime (ie who had the most influence in the team0 has to be
Cruyff.
Before my time, but Puskas and Di Stefano were rumoured to be rather good.
OK, this is a good one. If Holland had won the WC in 1974, would that make Cruyff a better player?
OK, this is a good one. If Holland had won the WC in 1974, would that make Cruyff a better player?
No, he was good enough already.
splott parker
31-10-23, 17:12
Cruyff’s legacy is still evident today.
Tony evans. You can close this thread
splott parker
31-10-23, 18:22
Tony evans. You can close this thread
We are all aware that Cardiff City FC are the greatest team in football what the world has ever seen and also that Davies was better than Yashin and Toshack was better than Eusebio.:hehe:
It is John Charles for me, watched him play, read what his team mates said of him, a great player without a doubt. The late Jackie Charlton once said with him in the team it was equivalent to having a 12 man team.
30 posts and no mention of Will Vaulks. Scandalous!
30 posts and no mention of Will Vaulks. Scandalous!
I'll raise you with Willie Boland.
30 posts and no mention of Will Vaulks. Scandalous!
How did you.leave.out Ojo?
I'll raise you with Willie Boland.
Don't get him started.
Maradona and Messi scored goals, but for me, the best player in my lifetime (ie who had the most influence in the team0 has to be
Cruyff.
Before my time, but Puskas and Di Stefano were rumoured to be rather good.
There's a strong argument to be made that Cruyff is the most influential man in football history.
I think that Bob has a shout concerning Messi and Maradona because there are so many similarities involved, even down to their size and the way they played the game. To use a boxing analogy, the world winning thing could be demed the 12th round, between two brilliant performers who were, are head and shoulders above the rest. It all rests on the final round on who is deemed the best. Still not conclusive and only opinion, but perfectly reasonable when comparing maradona and messi (in my opinion)
I think it was just used as an easy and convenient way to split the difference. NYC rightly points out that it's never used with Cruyff. I haven't seen it argued that Zidane is the best European player over Cruyff because he won a world cup (and a euros too).
I'm repeating myself, but Maradona relied on his three team mates to score the goals, something they didn't do in 1990. If you're comparing players as individuals, things that their team mates do shouldn't matter to the point where that is the sole factor, as there's more than enough that Messi and Maradona have done individually to discuss.
I really wish I hadn’t said anything. Are we arguing then that if you are comparing two players from the same country which has won the World Cup twice, the fact that one of them had a winner’s medal which Argentina wouldn’t have won without him and the other had been a member of arguably better squads that had all failed in the competition should not be a factor when making a comparison between them?
Nobby stiles or Gazza?
We are all aware that Cardiff City FC are the greatest team in football what the world has ever seen and also that Davies was better than Yashin and Toshack was better than Eusebio.:hehe:
What about our Dixie Dean :thumbup: (what was his name ?) (was it Norman ?)
Moodybluebird
01-11-23, 14:33
Cruyff’s legacy is still evident today.
I'm lucky enough to have his autograph. He was hanging around in Park Street waiting for the Dutch team bus to arrive, when I spotted him. At the time his son Jordi was playing for the national team.
splott parker
01-11-23, 14:40
What about our Dixie Dean :thumbup: (what was his name ?) (was it Norman ?)
Now you’re talking, what a European hero our Norman was.
Now you’re talking, what a European hero our Norman was.
Apart from Hunter, I can’t think of another Norman as a footballer .
I kept on thinking of Wisdom :hehe:
splott parker
01-11-23, 15:50
Apart from Hunter, I can’t think of another Norman as a footballer .
I kept on thinking of Wisdom :hehe:
Whiteside
Moodybluebird
01-11-23, 16:41
Apart from Hunter, I can’t think of another Norman as a footballer .
I kept on thinking of Wisdom :hehe:
Maurice Norman, a centre half in the Spurs double winning team of the early 60's.
Apart from Hunter, I can’t think of another Norman as a footballer .
I kept on thinking of Wisdom :hehe:
Apparently there was a Norman Conquest who played in goals for Australia in the 1940s.
Cardiff had Norman Dean in the 1960s. He scored the winner against Moscow Torpedo in 1967-68 quarter final and twice in the two games against Hamburg in the semi final.
plenty of people said that Messi wasnt the GOAT because he hadn't won the World Cup ( TOBW was not alone in that thought ) many said that what Maradona did in the World Cup made him the GOAT, for me and ive had this opinion for a few years, Messi has been at the very top for near 20 years, we throw the GOAT term around alot in the sports world, but its deserved in Messi's case
Ive recently got back from the US and had a interesting discussion about football and soccer with a bloke in a ride line ( interesting a few Americans spotted my daughters city shirt and knew Cardiff were in the championship and who they were ( thats a new thing, welcome to wrexham maybe ? ? ) our server on the cruise ( from the Philippines ) knew a awful lot about Cardiff ( players and recent history ) and we are his "premiership team " I did point out we were in the championship, but he didnt care
anyways, this guy in the line spotted my daughters Messi shirt ( they were the most popular shirts we saw ) and we were British I guess we got talking about GOAT's and Messi and Brady, now im a big fan on Brady, what he did in his career ( from where it began ) and his stat's were world class 7 X Super Bowl champs, 5 X Super Bowl MVP ( man of the match in a super bowl for non NFL followers ) , but I could let him have that Brady was a GOAT over Messi, 7 X Ballon d'Or's must mean something,
Moodybluebird
01-11-23, 18:12
Cardiff had Norman Dean in the 1960s. He scored the winner against Moscow Torpedo in 1967-68 quarter final and twice in the two games against Hamburg in the semi final.
That's who's being referred to further up this page.
Cardiff had Norman Dean in the 1960s. He scored the winner against Moscow Torpedo in 1967-68 quarter final and twice in the two games against Hamburg in the semi final.
That’s who’s being referred to further up this page
Let him have his moment of glory :hehe:
Des Parrot
01-11-23, 19:59
Interesting that the Ballon D’or winner has only come from 3 British clubs, Manure (x4), Liverpool & Blackpool, 6 times in 65 years.
splott parker
01-11-23, 20:16
Interesting that the Ballon D’or winner has only come from 3 British clubs, Manure (x4), Liverpool & Blackpool, 6 times in 65 years.
3 Lancashire clubs to narrow it down as well.
SLUDGE FACTORY
01-11-23, 20:21
Boland
No arguement
Boland
No arguement
I like arguing, DOUBLE BOLLOX. :thumbup::hehe:
That's who's being referred to further up this page.
Thanks for the insight. It does assume that one reads the whole of a thread before replying to one of the latest replies.
splott parker
01-11-23, 22:03
Thanks for the insight. It does assume that one reads the whole of a thread before replying to one of the latest replies.
It’s best to read the whole thread before posting, especially one praising Norman Dean:thumbup:
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