Welsh fans visit Mount Ararat (Armenia) but many still deny the account of Noah?

[truthpaste]

Stevo has raised the following points, please try and park the usual insults and give your own reason as to why you believe what you believe. Many thanks:-

1. "Some of course go as far as believing the Earth is only 4000 years old" - I believe Stevo means 6000 years as the Biblical account gives us around 4000 years of history BEFORE Christ, right back to Adam. What has convinced you that you have solid evidence to tell others how old the earth actually is?

2. "In my case, Catholic. But this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what faith you have - the impact that it has on you is no different to that on any other person with faith of any religion"
(a) Is it true that all religions produce similar behaviour in their followers?
(b) Is there a difference between very religious Christians and other Christians who reject man-made religion and follow/ trust in God's Word in it's given context?

3. Do many Bible believing Christian's deny the evidence of dinosaurs?
I certainly have no problem with the existence of such creatures and have often pointed out where the Bible points to them?

4. Is there a more logical starting point than Adam & Eve?
If so, then please provide the proof that agnostics demand from Bible believing theists...

Our thanks to Stevo for his original comments - please address any or all of the above :sherlock:

[cyril evans awaydays]

Not answering your questions but on Sunday I visited the Khor Virap monastery in the foothills of Mount Ararat. Mount Ararat is in Turkey as a result of the Ottoman Empire's ethnic and religious cleansing of the Armenians in the early 20th Century.

Within two miles of where we were standing were the borders of Turkey, Iran and Azerbaijan, all Muslim states. Whilst all recognise Noah as a prophet in the Koran all have different landing places for his Ark. Still, given that according to the Bible Noah was 500 years old when he had his first son and died 350 years after the flood at the ripe old age of 950 I guess explaining away the dinosaurs should be a doddle!

[truthpaste]

Not answering your questions but on Sunday I visited the Khor Virap monastery in the foothills of Mount Ararat. Mount Ararat is in Turkey as a result of the Ottoman Empire's ethnic and religious cleansing of the Armenians in the early 20th Century.

Within two miles of where we were standing were the borders of Turkey, Iran and Azerbaijan, all Muslim states. Whilst all recognise Noah as a prophet in the Koran all have different landing places for his Ark. Still, given that according to the Bible Noah was 500 years old when he had his first son and died 350 years after the flood at the ripe old age of 950 I guess explaining away the dinosaurs should be a doddle!

No need to explain away the dinosaurs at all, there are examples of land and water based dinosuars in the text, the only reason that the Bible doesn't call them dinosaurs as we do are this; the word dino-saur (terrible lizard) was invented in the 1840's (see *below), and the main translation of the Bible happened between the 1300's and 1600's, therefore the word was not yet available.

The reasons why humans lived much longer before the flood is both genetic and enviromental, I would be more than happy to take questions on that should you be interested.

* Richard Owen coined the word Dinosaur (originally Dinosauria) in 1841 and it originates from two greek words deinos – terrible, powerful, wondrous and sauros – lizard. Before 1841 we think people just called them dragons!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Not answering your questions but on Sunday I visited the Khor Virap monastery in the foothills of Mount Ararat. Mount Ararat is in Turkey as a result of the Ottoman Empire's ethnic and religious cleansing of the Armenians in the early 20th Century.

Within two miles of where we were standing were the borders of Turkey, Iran and Azerbaijan, all Muslim states. Whilst all recognise Noah as a prophet in the Koran all have different landing places for his Ark. Still, given that according to the Bible Noah was 500 years old when he had his first son and died 350 years after the flood at the ripe old age of 950 I guess explaining away the dinosaurs should be a doddle!

So Armenians border also meets the borders of Turkey, Iran, Azerbaijan?

[cyril evans awaydays]

So Armenians border also meets the borders of Turkey, Iran, Azerbaijan?

Yes, at that narrow point where the borders are all within a couple of miles of each other close to Mount Ararat. You could see where the churches ended and the mosques and minarets started. It also borders Georgia to the north but much further away.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yes, at that narrow point where the borders are all within a couple of miles of each other close to Mount Ararat. You could see where the churches ended and the mosques and minarets started. It also borders Georgia to the north but much further away.

Wow

Hot and arid in the summer

Freezing in the winter ?

[stevo]

Stevo has raised the following points, please try and park the usual insults and give your own reason as to why you believe what you believe. Many thanks:-

1. "Some of course go as far as believing the Earth is only 4000 years old" - I believe Stevo means 6000 years as the Biblical account gives us around 4000 years of history BEFORE Christ, right back to Adam. What has convinced you that you have solid evidence to tell others how old the earth actually is?

2. "In my case, Catholic. But this is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what faith you have - the impact that it has on you is no different to that on any other person with faith of any religion"
(a) Is it true that all religions produce similar behaviour in their followers?
(b) Is there a difference between very religious Christians and other Christians who reject man-made religion and follow/ trust in God's Word in it's given context?

3. Do many Bible believing Christian's deny the evidence of dinosaurs?
I certainly have no problem with the existence of such creatures and have often pointed out where the Bible points to them?

4. Is there a more logical starting point than Adam & Eve?
If so, then please provide the proof that agnostics demand from Bible believing theists...

Our thanks to Stevo for his original comments - please address any or all of the above :sherlock:

Sorry Truthpaste, I’ve only just realised you have started a new thread. Before I respond, I assume based on your post above that you believe the Noah’s Ark story to be true also? And would you be willing to state which Christian denomination you belong to? Thanks.

[truthpaste]

Sorry Truthpaste, I’ve only just realised you have started a new thread. Before I respond, I assume based on your post above that you believe the Noah’s Ark story to be true also? And would you be willing to state which Christian denomination you belong to? Thanks.

No problem Stevo, as I've just stated elsewhere, I am in a Free Evangelical Church so we accept the Bible in it's given *context and we expext it to line up with all CONFIRMED History and Scientific discoveries.

So the Ark did rescue eight people, and this is confirmed outside the Bible too.

*That doesn't mean 'literal', it means like with any text, we take each phrase in the context in which it is written. Hope that makes sense, if not then please feel free to ask me to explain further.

[life on mars]

That's Ark of the truth

[stevo]

No problem Stevo, as I've just stated elsewhere, I am in a Free Evangelical Church

Is that like Kings in Newport? I went there once for someone’s baptism. Heavy stuff and a bit creepy. And to me it seemed all about the money.

I also had an evangelical work colleague once and her views on the Catholic Church were um, interesting. She used to make harmless digs at me because of my catholic background. She then left work to do a degree in Divinity at Cardiff Uni and by the end of the course she had converted to Catholicism.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Is that like Kings in Newport? I went there once for someone’s baptism. Heavy stuff and a bit creepy. And to me it seemed all about the money.

I also had an evangelical work colleague once and her views on the Catholic Church were um, interesting. She used to make harmless digs at me because of my catholic background. She then left work to do a degree in Divinity at Cardiff Uni and by the end of the course she had converted to Catholicism.

Now missing

[truthpaste]

Is that like Kings in Newport? I went there once for someone’s baptism. Heavy stuff and a bit creepy. And to me it seemed all about the money.

I also had an evangelical work colleague once and her views on the Catholic Church were um, interesting. She used to make harmless digs at me because of my catholic background. She then left work to do a degree in Divinity at Cardiff Uni and by the end of the course she had converted to Catholicism.

Well I can confirm that in the 50+ years I have attended the main weekly meeting that we never have a collection and we certainly don't mention anything about people giving. These days people can set up a D/D if they wish and all giving is always confidential.

Catholics can also be Christians, however unlike RC's in the States, South America and a few other places, in the UK that combination is very rare.

[Gofer Blue]

Kings Church was an example of where things can go very wrong sadly. I went there a few times and it seemed to me that the congregation worshipped the pastor rather than Jesus. In fact there was a rather acrimonious split IIRC.

I attend a house church now, back to how it should be as in the early days of Christianity (ref Acts of the Apostles)

[stevo]

So, if you follow the bible religiously, are you not supposed to give over one tenth of your earnings to the church?

[jon1959]

So, if you follow the bible religiously, are you not supposed to give over one tenth of your earnings to the church?

If you follow the bible 'religiously' (the Old Testament bits about mutilating and murdering people who don't follow the rules of your cult) you will (or should) end up in prison for life with no hope of parole!

[Doucas]

Why are people Christian as opposed to Muslim, Hindu or a Scientologist? Why do you worship your god instead of Zeus or the sun god the Aztecs worshipped?

If every copy of the bible and all knowledge of Christianity disappeared it wouldn't spawn back into existence magically.

There have been hundreds or thousands of religions, but your one is correct?

But to answer some of your questions.

1. Radiometric dating, the Earth is 4.5 billion years old roughly, it's no longer up for debate.

4. Can you prove to me there isn't the existence of a flying spaghetti monster in the sky? Exactly. You're making the claim Adam and Eve spawned into existence, the burden of proof is on you.

If Jesus came along today he'd be persecuted by the media and Christians for being a socialist.

[Gofer Blue]

Why are people Christian as opposed to Muslim, Hindu or a Scientologist? Why do you worship your god instead of Zeus or the sun god the Aztecs worshipped?

If every copy of the bible and all knowledge of Christianity disappeared it wouldn't spawn back into existence magically.

There have been hundreds or thousands of religions, but your one is correct?

But to answer some of your questions.

1. Radiometric dating, the Earth is 4.5 billion years old roughly, it's no longer up for debate.

4. Can you prove to me there isn't the existence of a flying spaghetti monster in the sky? Exactly. You're making the claim Adam and Eve spawned into existence, the burden of proof is on you.

If Jesus came along today he'd be persecuted by the media and Christians for being a socialist.

I assume you mean if it was for the first time? If so, then maybe. I rather think he would be deemed an idealist, patted on the head, and quietly ignored. More sympathetic folk might say "aw bless him, he means well" but then just carry on as normal.

But of course, the second coming... that'll be something else!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Why are people Christian as opposed to Muslim, Hindu or a Scientologist? Why do you worship your god instead of Zeus or the sun god the Aztecs worshipped?

If every copy of the bible and all knowledge of Christianity disappeared it wouldn't spawn back into existence magically.

There have been hundreds or thousands of religions, but your one is correct?

But to answer some of your questions.

1. Radiometric dating, the Earth is 4.5 billion years old roughly, it's no longer up for debate.

4. Can you prove to me there isn't the existence of a flying spaghetti monster in the sky? Exactly. You're making the claim Adam and Eve spawned into existence, the burden of proof is on you.

If Jesus came along today he'd be persecuted by the media and Christians for being a socialist.

The reason why people are Christian or Muslim or Catholic or whatever is almost exclusively just an accident of birth and geography

Born in the texas bible belt of Christian republican parents who force you to go to church ........you certainly are unlikely to be a Muslim or a Catholic

Born in a Kibbutz to strict Jewish settlers who are exiles from Belgium ? You are going to be Jewish

Either way , religion rarely comes from self discovery , it comes from the environment of family , parents , school , friends etc

It's a complete cult , all of it

[truthpaste]

So, if you follow the bible religiously, are you not supposed to give over one tenth of your earnings to the church?

In the Old Testament, as the Levitical priests were the civil government, tithes (10%) were required taxes for funding the national budget in Israel. By the New Testament, Christians were not commanded to tithe anymore but rather encouraged to voluntarily give to the church (and to God) in proportion to their wealth.

[truthpaste]

The reason why people are Christian or Muslim or Catholic or whatever is almost exclusively just an accident of birth and geography

Born in the texas bible belt of Christian republican parents who force you to go to church ........you certainly are unlikely to be a Muslim or a Catholic

Born in a Kibbutz to strict Jewish settlers who are exiles from Belgium ? You are going to be Jewish

Either way , religion rarely comes from self discovery , it comes from the environment of family , parents , school , friends etc

It's a complete cult , all of it

Yes, Saul (Paul) assumed the people of THE WAY (an early name for followers of Christ before they were first known as Christians in Antioch) were just a cult, however those who had found the real Jesus were then proven to be anything but a cult.
Today some 2000 years later, genuine Christians continue to prove the reality of the Risen Christ on a daily basis.
If you seriously investigate this yourself then you will find the result is the same.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yes, Saul (Paul) assumed the people of THE WAY (an early name for followers of Christ before they were first known as Christians in Antioch) were just a cult, however those who had found the real Jesus were then proven to be anything but a cult.
Today some 2000 years later, genuine Christians continue to prove the reality of the Risen Christ on a daily basis.
If you seriously investigate this yourself then you will find the result is the same.

The reality of the risen christ ?

So you think that as a Christian you are going to paradise And eternal life because you were born of parents who were Christian here or in the middle east or in Australia where they tried to wipe out the aborigines to insert Christianity......a nice touch

And Muslims, Catholics, bhuddists , the Indian tribes in the amazon etc .....are not going

That's selective and prejudicial.......I thought god loved us all ?

Just by luck of birthplace or meeting the right holy man on holiday you go to heaven ?

Blimey

[truthpaste]

The reality of the risen christ ?

So you think that as a Christian you are going to paradise And eternal life because you were born of parents who were Christian here or in the middle east or in Australia where they tried to wipe out the aborigines to insert Christianity......a nice touch

And Muslims, Catholics, bhuddists , the Indian tribes in the amazon etc .....are not going

That's selective and prejudicial.......I thought god loved us all ?

Just by luck of birthplace or meeting the right holy man on holiday you go to heaven ?

Blimey

God will grant everyone sufficient opportunity, don't miss yours because you are wondering how someone in NZ or Africa will get their own! Would you hesitate to grab a ticket for City in the Cup final before you checked if a fan now living in Canada had the ability to obtain a ticket too?
Like I've told you before, thousands of Muslims in Africa find Christ Jesus every single day, so leave God to sort out the logistics. He isn't without the means and opportunity to reach everyone.

1. I'm not a Christian because one of my parents was one when I was born, in fact I know many Christian parents who have children who have made the choice to reject Christ and take their chances.
2. God DOES love us all, but He isn't going to hold you upside down from the top of Brunel House before you accept Him, you need to personally appreciate how much you need Him and make that decision yourself.

[stevo]

And if we don’t?

[cityhammer]

It's a complete cult , all of it
Dont think I've ever agreed with anything you've said on here before, but you're 100% correct on this. All religion should be illegal.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Dont think I've ever agreed with anything you've said on here before, but you're 100% correct on this. All religion should be illegal.

Are you a Welsh West Ham fan ?

[Gofer Blue]

God will grant everyone sufficient opportunity, don't miss yours because you are wondering how someone in NZ or Africa will get their own! Would you hesitate to grab a ticket for City in the Cup final before you checked if a fan now living in Canada had the ability to obtain a ticket too?
Like I've told you before, thousands of Muslims in Africa find Christ Jesus every single day, so leave God to sort out the logistics. He isn't without the means and opportunity to reach everyone.

1. I'm not a Christian because one of my parents was one when I was born, in fact I know many Christian parents who have children who have made the choice to reject Christ and take their chances.
2. God DOES love us all, but He isn't going to hold you upside down from the top of Brunel House before you accept Him, you need to personally appreciate how much you need Him and make that decision yourself.

TP - I have sent you a PM.

[Canton Kev]

TP - I have sent you a PM.

Is it asking who his dealer is? Bloke’s on some good stuff by the sounds of it.

[truthpaste]

TP - I have sent you a PM.

My apologies for the delay, I've been ill for the last week, will check that now.

[truthpaste]

Is it asking who his dealer is? Bloke’s on some good stuff by the sounds of it.

Good YES.
Stuff NO.

God is Good.
I have never been the same since I accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour. That was 1968.
I have my ups and downs, but I have a joy that doesn't depend on life's changing circumstances, including losing family, jobs and all those relegations for City from the 60's to the late 10's.

[truthpaste]

The reality of the risen christ ?



It simply means that we are dealing with a God who is alive, sentient and able to communicate with us, died for us on a cross, rose again and someone who can be involved in our lives if we repent; not a dead statue, object, moon, sun, or a god/ godess who's body once was alive but is now lying rotting in a grave.

[truthpaste]

And if we don’t?

You will have an eternity of regret.

[stevo]

I assume you’ve seen the interview with Stephen Fry who says he would only want to enter God’s kingdom on his own terms? You can count me in that way of thinking.

[truthpaste]

I assume you’ve seen the interview with Stephen Fry who says he would only want to enter God’s kingdom on his own terms? You can count me in that way of thinking.

Man has been making a god in their own image since the dawn of time, Stephen Fry is no different.
Don't forget the danger of mocking God and telling him how things are going to go when you get to meet him.
Mike Dickin tried that game on TalkSport/ TalkRadio late one Saturday night, I was listening to the whole *show as he invited Dawkins into his studio so they could both mock God and anyone who dared to phone in to explain why they trusted in Almighty God.

Less than 36 hours later, Alan Brazil was reading out tributes to Mike Dickin on his Monday morning breakfast show.

God is not mocked.


* The show is available (audio) online if you doubt anything I said above.

[stevo]

Coincidences happen. Why isn’t Stephen Fry dead?

[lardy]

Man has been making a god in their own image since the dawn of time, Stephen Fry is no different.
Don't forget the danger of mocking God and telling him how things are going to go when you get to meet him.
Mike Dickin tried that game on TalkSport/ TalkRadio late one Saturday night, I was listening to the whole *show as he invited Dawkins into his studio so they could both mock God and anyone who dared to phone in to explain why they trusted in Almighty God.

Less than 36 hours later, Alan Brazil was reading out tributes to Mike Dickin on his Monday morning breakfast show.

God is not mocked.


* The show is available (audio) online if you doubt anything I said above.

Richard Dawkins is still alive.

God doesn't mind a bit of mocking.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

God listens to Talk Radio and kills off a presenter of some description but left Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot to murder people in their millions. This is unbelievably amusing tosh.

[stevo]

:hehe:

[truthpaste]

Richard Dawkins is still alive.

God doesn't mind a bit of mocking.

As are you and millions of other scoffers, currently.

However Dawkins didn't choreograph the event, Dickin did.

[truthpaste]

God listens to Talk Radio and kills off a presenter of some description but left Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot to murder people in their millions. This is unbelievably amusing tosh.

I know they are two 'm' words, but strangely they don't have the same meaning!
Try again.

[lardy]

As are you and millions of other scoffers, currently.

However Dawkins didn't choreograph the event, Dickin did.

So it's ok to publish millions of books saying God doesn't exist and take part in a radio debate, but you're only in trouble if you are the host.

I think I and millions of others will be alright then. I don't really have a late night phone in. Oddly specific that God won't be mocked in just that way and lets all the other bits slide, but I'm sure you're right.

[truthpaste]

So it's ok to publish millions of books saying God doesn't exist and take part in a radio debate, but you're only in trouble if you are the host.

I think I and millions of others will be alright then. I don't really have a late night phone in. Oddly specific that God won't be mocked in just that way and lets all the other bits slide, but I'm sure you're right.

I'm sure God will benefit from your wisdom on all these and other matters He's been attending to thousands of years before we all arrived here. I'm really sorry that He hasn't copied you in all all the memos relating to His ongoing strategy.

The bits we can relate to are all in a book He compiled, the one we mentioned earlier that remains the No.1 best seller.

As for Dickin, he'd spend most of his career snearing and belittling the children of God; this show was going to be one of his best moments, inviting the 'high priest' of agnostics to join him in his bespoke amphitheatre, where they would chuckle for a couple of hours while they 'tore the flesh' from anyone who would dare to stand up for God.