A driving question.

[Dembe]

Middle lane hoggers. Passed about 9 in the left lane Saturday night going to work, as I reached the front of team lane hog the nearest vehicle ahead of me was a lorry some half a mile up the Motorway, there was one more car to my right to pass. I didn't leave the left lane and had the car on cruise control doing the limit 70mph. Absolutely no reason for any of them to be in the middle lane, the one leading them all tried to pull in front of me without indicating, they were just going to swerve in front of me so I give a single beep. If they'd come over I'd have to slow down to 60 and be boxed in by the other 8 cars following the idiot...the second time they moved over they did then use their indicator but I was ridiculously close to them at this point and it was dangerous. They still went for it, for some reason.
At this point I hit the horn hard and long and left my full beams on so they could see me. They swerved back, utterly unaware I was even there (even after the first friendly beep)


I don't generally moan about middle lane hoggers, usually move around them if its safe to do so, or on occasion I'll stay in the left lane and undertake but its usually only the one vehicle plodding along so its never really an issue.

Got thinking to myself once I'd stopped beeping at them for 30 seconds straight and they'd got back into their lane, was I in the right or wrong to be undertaking? I wouldn't have got past the 9 cars in the right doing 70 before someone wanted to pass me doing 80+ and thought the safest way to pass was doing the road limit in the left lane.

This was not too far after the change back to 70 after the 50 averages, so cars in the right were obviously speeding up to make up for the 2 minutes they'd lost doing 50.

Opinions?

[The Bloop]

Why didn't you just overtake them?

[Nobody's Rep]

Stating the obvious but undertaking is dangerous regardless of the frustration of middle lane hoggers which I absolute share with you but undertaking is not the answer is my opinion 👍

[19bluebirds27]

Rule of the motorway is to drive on the left.
You indicate right to overtake and Not indicate to return to the left lane.
You would fail an advanced driving by indicating left. Only indicate left when you are approaching a junction.

[Dembe]

Rule of the motorway is to drive on the left.
You indicate right to overtake and Not indicate to return to the left lane.
You would fail an advanced driving by indicating left. Only indicate left when you are approaching a junction.

I should have been more clear, I was in the left lane already. I was in the left lane from Coryton to the 50, where I then moved to the right lane passing slower traffic. The approach to the National speed limit sign is 2 lanes so I was also in the right lane there to overtake before moving back to the left lane. As you get to Magor it goes back to 2 lanes for a bit so I was again in the right lane overtaking a lorry. After Magor its 3 lanes again, I was in the left lane all the way to the Chepstow turn off where I encountered the convoy of lane hoggers who were going considerably slower with nothing ahead of them but clear road. All I did was stay in my lane, doing 70.
There were a few much faster moving vehicles in the right lane all doing 80+ , are you saying I should slow down enough to their speed, join the convoy, wait for all faster moving vehicles to pass and then attempt to pass them at 70 hoping in the time I pass the 9 cars stretched out over the m4 that nobody wants to pass me? I'd likely cause multiple cars to break while I overtook the convoy? Surely it's safer to stay doing a steady speed?

https://www.reddrivingschool.com/learners/how-do-i-do-it/highway-code/undertaking/#:~:text=Although%20not%20strictly%20illegal%2C%20 undertaking,a%20lane%20on%20the%20right%2C
Although not strictly illegal, undertaking is strongly discouraged by The Highway Code, stating “do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake.” However, there are exceptions that apply when a car undertakes in slow-moving traffic if its lane is moving faster than a lane on the right, ...

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q891#:~:text=However%2C%20whilst%20there%20is%20no ,be%20prosecuted%20for%20careless%20driving.
ON MOTORWAYS
Rule 268 of the Highway Code states – do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

OFFENCE
Overtaking on the left is lawful if done in accordance with the above guidance. However, whilst there is no specific offence of overtaking on the left, if a driver undertook another vehicle, other than in the circumstances described above e.g. in the case of someone hogging lane 2 on a motorway, they may be prosecuted for careless driving.

[Dembe]

Why didn't you just overtake them?

If you took time to read my post you'd note that there were faster moving vehicles in the right hand lane.

[tforturton]

Middle lane joggers are annoying, but under-taking is a risky business.

[Dembe]

Stating the obvious but undertaking is dangerous regardless of the frustration of middle lane hoggers which I absolute share with you but undertaking is not the answer is my opinion ��

I was after opinions :thumbup:

There are obvious dangers, like the hogger deciding to move into the left lane spontaneously and not checking their mirrors or taking notice of a beeping car 10ft away, but weighing up the situation I found it a lot safer than trying to overtake such a long stretch of cars, especially with a load of faster moving vehicles in the right hand lane, who would have all had to slam their breaks on had I been plodding at 70 in the right lane. I'll only move into the right lane if theres clear room to pass and move back, my days of doing 80+ are over. Never go above 70 now.

[The Bloop]

If you took time to read my post you'd note that there were faster moving vehicles in the right hand lane.

I did read your post.
You'd have to travel faster to either undertake or overtake them. Another option would be just to travel at the same speed as the hoggers but in the left hand lane. It's the least stressful place to be.
If you feel the need to get past them then travel in the middle lane with your indicator on. Someone will either let you out, or you wait until a space appears for you to pull out.
Hoggers are a PITA but undertaking is not the solution.

[Hilts]

Middle lane hoggers are annoying.

Your driving undertaking , beeping the horn etc sounds dangerous.

[Dembe]

I did read your post.
You'd have to travel faster to either undertake or overtake them. Another option would be just to travel at the same speed as the hoggers but in the left hand lane. It's the least stressful place to be.
If you feel the need to get past them then travel in the middle lane with your indicator on. Someone will either let you out, or you wait until a space appears for you to pull out.
Hoggers are a PITA but undertaking is not the solution.

Ok :thumbup:

You asked why I didn't just overtake, the reasoning was in the OP

I have since read that passing on the left is fine. It is usually a single car so never an issue, but this incident was something ive never come across while driving thats why I've posted about it. It was inevitable I wouldn't like all opinions and suggestions, such is the internet :hehe:

[Dembe]

Middle lane hoggers are annoying.

Your driving undertaking , beeping the horn etc sounds dangerous.

Car horns should only be used when the car is in motion to warn of imminent danger or avoid potential accidents. Misuse of the car horn such as to express annoyance, startle animals or hurry other road users can lead to fines.

Think it was safe use in this instance :thumbup:

[The Bloop]

Ok :thumbup:

You asked why I didn't just overtake, the reasoning was in the OP

I have since read that passing on the left is fine. It is usually a single car so never an issue, but this incident was something ive never come across while driving thats why I've posted about it. It was inevitable I wouldn't like all opinions and suggestions, such is the internet :hehe:

There's nothing wrong with overtaking at 70 in the outside lane. Once you've finished overtaking just pull back to the left. Those who want to travel at 80+ would just have to be patient.
Wouldn't it be dull if everyone thought what you did was acceptable.

[PhyllisStant]

There should be penalty points/ re-training for not driving on the left when not overtaking. Far more dangerous than doing 10 miles an hour over the speed limit as it forces other people like yourself to drive inappropriately.

As I biker (motorbike not a lycra clad bellend) I'm always aware that I'll come off worse in a coming together so am always riding defensively and am staggered at the constant ignorance and ineptitude of 90% of motorists.

[Dembe]

There should be penalty points/ re-training for not driving on the left when not overtaking. Far more dangerous than doing 10 miles an hour over the speed limit as it forces other people like yourself to drive inappropriately.

As I biker I'm always aware that I'll come off worse in a coming together so am always riding defensively and am staggered at the constant ignorance and ineptitude of 90% of motorists.

I am always aware of bikers and take extra care around them, give them more room than I'd give a car for example, still had someone indicate to move into my safe gap once before :hehe: some people haven't got a clue.

[Dembe]

There's nothing wrong with overtaking at 70 in the outside lane. Once you've finished overtaking just pull back to the left. Those who want to travel at 80+ would just have to be patient.
Wouldn't it be dull if everyone thought what you did was acceptable.

I'm not arsed if they find it acceptable or not, I know better than to post on here expecting that :thumbup:

I will stick to the left lane, usually only a single vehicle anyway, I won't inconvenience another road user and make them break because of some idiot who is too lazy to move into the left lane.

Some people will use the left lane, move out to overtake a lorry, notice the 400m gap in the left lane until the next lorry and just stay in the middle lane until they slowly overtake the lorry 400m up the road. I am the type of driver hat will move into the left lane for 20 seconds and left faster moving vehicles pass in the middle and right lanes, before pulling back out, its the hoggers that cause mayhem behind them....70 drivers pulling out into the right lane forcing 80 drivers to hit the breaks (I know you're going to say the limit is 70) where as if they'd just inconvenienced themselves for 20seconds the mayhem would not have happened.

Usually women and older men as well, no wonder CCMB isn't bothered, most of you probably are lane hogging twats.

[Trigger]

My wife is a middle lane hogger, improved since I became aware of it and called it out but every now and then she will still do it.

Just makes me feel uncomfortable, particularly if you are then aware of cars about to undertake. I don't know how some just comfortably sit in the middle almost oblivious to what's going on.

[Dembe]

My wife is a middle lane hogger, improved since I became aware of it and called it out but every now and then she will still do it.

Just makes me feel uncomfortable, particularly if you are then aware of cars about to undertake. I don't know how some just comfortably sit in the middle almost oblivious to what's going on.

Especially at night when they can see the headlights in the left lane, some of them do move over once you undertake. I find less people move over if you go left>middle>right>middle>left as they just think you're being an obnoxious ****, I find this more dangerous as well.

[sneggyblubird]

Been driving since God was a boy as have many others on here I'm sure. Road etiquette went out of the window years ago and I've learned to modify my attitude on the road accordingly.Being bloody minded by other peoples mistakes will only get you into trouble in the long run.Drivers that squeeze into an inadequate space in front of you is my pet hate as someone who's driving was a part of my job(service engineer) but in London and Brum the driving experience there comes as a complete shock where something like that is the complete norm.Basically, today most drivers just don't give one.

[the other bob wilson]

Rule of the motorway is to drive on the left.
You indicate right to overtake and Not indicate to return to the left lane.
You would fail an advanced driving by indicating left. Only indicate left when you are approaching a junction.

Why? It’s a long time since I learned to drive (fifty years November in fact), so things may well have changed since then, but I was told at the time I should always use my indicators when changing lanes. That’s what I’ve done all my life, so I don’t get why indicating left why changing lanes on a motorway is now considered unacceptable.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

Why? It’s a long time since I learned to drive (fifty years November in fact), so things may well have changed since then, but I was told at the time I should always use my indicators when changing lanes. That’s what I’ve done all my life, so I don’t get why indicating left why changing lanes on a motorway is now considered unacceptable.

Me too.

'mirror - SIGNAL - manoeuvre' was what I was always taught.

[light up the darkness]

Why? It’s a long time since I learned to drive (fifty years November in fact), so things may well have changed since then, but I was told at the time I should always use my indicators when changing lanes. That’s what I’ve done all my life, so I don’t get why indicating left why changing lanes on a motorway is now considered unacceptable.

Just to add a further twist I was informed that drivers under instruction are now being taught at roundabouts to only signal to exit the roundabout.

You know if there’s 3 or 4 lanes going around a roundabout to me it makes sense to signal to people waiting to enter the roundabout that you are continuing to navigate the thing and not just jump across whenever you’re ready.

[The Bloop]

Just to add a further twist I was informed that drivers under instruction are now being taught at roundabouts to only signal to exit the roundabout.

You know if there’s 3 or 4 lanes going around a roundabout to me it makes sense to signal to people waiting to enter the roundabout that you are continuing to navigate the thing and not just jump across whenever you’re ready.

Learners are still taught to signal right if turning right at a roundabout.

[Dembe]

Been driving since God was a boy as have many others on here I'm sure. Road etiquette went out of the window years ago and I've learned to modify my attitude on the road accordingly.Being bloody minded by other peoples mistakes will only get you into trouble in the long run.Drivers that squeeze into an inadequate space in front of you is my pet hate as someone who's driving was a part of my job(service engineer) but in London and Brum the driving experience there comes as a complete shock where something like that is the complete norm.Basically, today most drivers just don't give one.

Driving in London :facepalm:

All major cities are a nightmare, NY was an eyeopener, cars literally just turning into your lane pushing their way across in traffic etc.

You are spot on about fitting your driving to the area you are in.

[Dembe]

Why? It’s a long time since I learned to drive (fifty years November in fact), so things may well have changed since then, but I was told at the time I should always use my indicators when changing lanes. That’s what I’ve done all my life, so I don’t get why indicating left why changing lanes on a motorway is now considered unacceptable.

I didn't pick up on this either, imagine the chaos if people did this on fast moving motorways and duel carriageways.

[Dembe]

Just to add a further twist I was informed that drivers under instruction are now being taught at roundabouts to only signal to exit the roundabout.

You know if there’s 3 or 4 lanes going around a roundabout to me it makes sense to signal to people waiting to enter the roundabout that you are continuing to navigate the thing and not just jump across whenever you’re ready.

Not in my daughter's case.

[splott parker]

Was in Turkey for the Wales game last year, stayed in Istanbul. Now the driving situation there is a sight to behold. I don’t know if they were shit drivers for nearly crashing into each other or brilliant drivers for the split second avoidance of hitting each other. :hehe:

[Dembe]

Was in Turkey for the Wales game last year, stayed in Istanbul. Now the driving situation there is a sight to behold. I don’t know if they were shit drivers for nearly crashing into each other or brilliant drivers for the split second avoidance of hitting each other. :hehe:

I liked Ibiza where they sped up if they saw tourists at the zebra crossings they had dotted all over.

[Des Parrot]

I’d have undertaken them as we’ll & do regularly. I understood that driving in the middle lane for more than 1/2 mile (with left lane empty) was now illegal.

Since 4 lane motorways have evolved, the joggers now sit in lane 3.

[Father Dougal]

Should the middle lane actually be called overtaking lane 1 and the right hand lane overtaking lane 2 to reflect what they actually are?

[Jimmy the Jock]

I regularly undertake the middle lane hoggers, , the most disappointing thing to me is most of them are in dream world , oblivious to their surroundings and other vehicles .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I think going past slower moving cars then indicating to pull carefully in front of them is safe and sensible

I also think on a Sunday when the boys on the Hondas and Truimphs are in a convey slowing down in that left lane and letting them all pass safely by waving them on is the way to go

You can't do much about idiots on the road and I am amazed some people have passed their test but in general keeping your distance and awareness of your speed is the best option

[North Cardiff Blue]

Middle lane hoggers. Passed about 9 in the left lane Saturday night going to work, as I reached the front of team lane hog the nearest vehicle ahead of me was a lorry some half a mile up the Motorway, there was one more car to my right to pass. I didn't leave the left lane and had the car on cruise control doing the limit 70mph. Absolutely no reason for any of them to be in the middle lane, the one leading them all tried to pull in front of me without indicating, they were just going to swerve in front of me so I give a single beep. If they'd come over I'd have to slow down to 60 and be boxed in by the other 8 cars following the idiot...the second time they moved over they did then use their indicator but I was ridiculously close to them at this point and it was dangerous. They still went for it, for some reason.
At this point I hit the horn hard and long and left my full beams on so they could see me. They swerved back, utterly unaware I was even there (even after the first friendly beep)


I don't generally moan about middle lane hoggers, usually move around them if its safe to do so, or on occasion I'll stay in the left lane and undertake but its usually only the one vehicle plodding along so its never really an issue.

Got thinking to myself once I'd stopped beeping at them for 30 seconds straight and they'd got back into their lane, was I in the right or wrong to be undertaking? I wouldn't have got past the 9 cars in the right doing 70 before someone wanted to pass me doing 80+ and thought the safest way to pass was doing the road limit in the left lane.

This was not too far after the change back to 70 after the 50 averages, so cars in the right were obviously speeding up to make up for the 2 minutes they'd lost doing 50.

Opinions?

Sounds like ten idiots all on the road at the same time, amazing there wasn't an accident.

[North Cardiff Blue]

I regularly undertake the middle lane hoggers, , the most disappointing thing to me is most of them are in dream world , oblivious to their surroundings and other vehicles .

So annoying and idiots, but passing nine in a line on the inside, lots of accident like that every day :shrug:

[jon1959]

Why? It’s a long time since I learned to drive (fifty years November in fact), so things may well have changed since then, but I was told at the time I should always use my indicators when changing lanes. That’s what I’ve done all my life, so I don’t get why indicating left why changing lanes on a motorway is now considered unacceptable.

Me too.

The cars behind always appreciateva polite left signal when I move in front of them - if they happen to look up from their texting!

[Dembe]

Me too.

The cars behind always appreciateva polite left signal when I move in front of them - if they happen to look up from their texting!

Theres a hospital near me and the amount of staff that drive out of there looking at their phones amazes me, its not just kids like people will have you believe, a lot of them are old enough to know better. What is so important it cant wait the 30 minute journey home?

[bobh]

I didn't pick up on this either, imagine the chaos if people did this on fast moving motorways and duel carriageways.

Sound horns at 50 paces?
:hehe:

Re: London driving and roundabouts -
There is a story, maybe an urban myth, that many years ago, police were called to investigate why a car was parked on the middle of the Hyde Park Corner roundabout (the one with the Wellington Arch)
Cops drove up, got out and approached the car to find a "little old lady" in the driver's seat, crying.
"I can't get off!" she sobbed. She had been going round and round, got caught in the inner lane and no-one would leave a gap for her to exit.


Re: indicating when changing lanes on a motorway -
If it wasn't for this, I may have been involved in a nasty smash.
I was driving along theM4, just before the M4/M5 split, in lane 1.
I wanted to continue on the M4 to glorious Wales, so indicated and pulled into lane 2.
Ahead, I could see several cars indicating the same, but also a few indicating to go from 2 to 1.
I thought I'd get past in case there was trouble, so indicated and pulled into lane 3.
When i finished that move, I looked ahead again and saw a van going over the hard shoulder onto the bank, another car swerving right and left as iif trying, i=unsuccessfully, to keep control - it then spun around to face the wrong way.
I drove past (not smugly!), pulled over and called the plod.

A month later I had a stroke and got medically DQ for life - clean licence and 13 years NCB up the swannee :cry: