Setting the record straight ref my Covid19 Self Employment income support Payments

This Morning i got on here to a message from someone who i class as a decent poster ( of old ) that they were disappointed to read i was cheating the Furlough system, it appears someone ( Jigra i guess :wave: ) is telling anyone who will listen that i have been boasting that i have cheated the Furlough scheme

The guy who messaged me said after i explained to his how it worked, maybe i should post on here so others know, so here it is, the guy might be right, he might not and no-one really gives a hoot about what i do, its longish post ( most of mine are, right ? ) so dont bother reading past here if you are not interested :thumbup:

1st point ( and its pretty big ) I am Self Employed so was never furloughed, the Self employed could NOT be furloughed

The SE'ed could claim a COVID-19: Self-Employment Income Support Scheme (SEISS) payment, which turned into TWO payments

You can only claim if your business has been effected by Covid19, the 2nd payment after the 14th of July

Now i wont go mention figures as that seemed to upset certain people

so let me explain how it works

HMRC take the last THREE tax returns you have submitted
They then work out a Average year
They take the Average year and work out how much profit you have per month ( lets say to keep it simple £1000, these are not my figures )

Now the 1 st payment ( first 3 months ) was for 80% of you profit = £800 per month = £2400
the 2nd payment ( 2nd 3 months ) for 70% of your profit + £700 per mont = £2100

In my case i have lost ( temporally i hope ) between £ 300 and 450, though this week another contract has 1/2'ed the frequency of the cleaaning for the foreseeable so that figure has slightly increased

it makes no difference how much you have lost, it could be £5 a month, you can still claim the above payments

HMRC say the person can still work and still claim this grant,

I trust this puts the record straight

In my opinion the scheme is designed to help you to keep working not a ‘wage’ to pay you to stay at home. The wheels of (self employed) industry are being oiled to keep them turning I think.

Anyone who is self employed who qualifies under HMRC's rules and who's trade has been adversely affected can make a claim.
Cant see why anyone would make an issue of it with any particular individual.

Matt - just an observation ( I'm sort of in the same boat but use a Ltd company so can't really claim much - but then luckily I've been unaffected by Covid anyway ).

One point you make is "You can only claim if your business has been effected by Covid19, the 2nd payment after the 14th of July"

Another point you make is "it makes no difference how much you have lost, it could be £5 a month, you can still claim the above payments

HMRC say the person can still work and still claim this grant,"

So I'm guessing that certain SE people can say they have been affected, still work and possibly be better off to the tune of 75% of six months profit - not saying you are one.

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

Matt - just an observation ( I'm sort of in the same boat but use a Ltd company so can't really claim much - but then luckily I've been unaffected by Covid anyway ).

One point you make is "You can only claim if your business has been effected by Covid19, the 2nd payment after the 14th of July"

Another point you make is "it makes no difference how much you have lost, it could be £5 a month, you can still claim the above payments

HMRC say the person can still work and still claim this grant,"

So I'm guessing that certain SE people can say they have been affected, still work and possibly be better off to the tune of 75% of six months profit - not saying you are one.

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Yes thats true

Last week i spoke to a fellow window cleaner and a landscape gardener who both have claimed, the window cleaner said his work has been back to normal since he went back to work ( after 4 week ) the landscape gardener couldnt get materials for the 1st few months, but has still made both claims, both of these will be massively better off with the 2nd payment, they will pay more tax at the end of the year, which might pay back a little of it

I will admit, the 2nd claim of 70% will make me better off for that 2nd 3 month period ( I could think it will top-up the 1st payment as that was only 80%, but that isnt the point of it ), as my monthly loss isnt close to 70% of my earnings ( maybe as we move on during the year and these contracts are still missing, it might make up for that or me ), but it is either claim or not, 70% or nothing, this is what HMRC have done, I am in no way cheating the system :thumbup:

I'm self employed, but I the money I make is not that much and is just meant to supplement my Civil Service pension. In truth, I don't believe the virus has made any difference at all to my income, so I've not been bothering with this scheme. The peak time for the annual income I get is at the start of each football season, so I was thinking of maybe applying if I did not make as much money by, say mid September, as I had done in the previous two years, but I'm already past, or very close to passing, 70 per cent of my normal income, so, as I see it, I don't qualify for anything.

I've only filed tax returns for the last two years as well, so does that mean I wouldn't qualify anyway?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'm self employed, but I the money I make is not that much and is just meant to supplement my Civil Service pension. In truth, I don't believe the virus has made any difference at all to my income, so I've not been bothering with this scheme. The peak time for the annual income I get is at the start of each football season, so I was thinking of maybe applying if I did not make as much money by, say mid September, as I had done in the previous two years, but I'm already past, or very close to passing, 70 per cent of my normal income, so, as I see it, I don't qualify for anything.

I've only filed tax returns for the last two years as well, so does that mean I wouldn't qualify anyway?

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the deadline for the 1st claim has passed , the 2nd claim deadline is 19th Oct

You can still claim if you have made one Tax return, they just take a average of your past 3 ( if you have done them ) but in your case they would average your last 2

in your case, if your income has been affect in the 2nd period ( since July 14th ) you can make a claim, forget about hitting the 70 % mark, if your income has been effected in anyway since July 14th you can claim ( in your case it will be 70% of 3 months profit from a average over the last 2 years )

in your case, you might hit 90% of your income, but as you have lost 10% you can make a claim, but that claim will be 70% so you will have earnt 160% of your income ( a issue pointed out by toadstool above ) but thats the way HMRC have done , it is your call if you want to claim

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Originally Posted by blue matt

the deadline for the 1st claim has passed , the 2nd claim deadline is 19th Oct

You can still claim if you have made one Tax return, they just take a average of your past 3 ( if you have done them ) but in your case they would average your last 2

in your case, if your income has been affect in the 2nd period ( since July 14th ) you can make a claim, forget about hitting the 70 % mark, if your income has been effected in anyway since July 14th you can claim ( in your case it will be 70% of 3 months profit from a average over the last 2 years )

in your case, you might hit 90% of your income, but as you have lost 10% you can make a claim, but that claim will be 70% so you will have earnt 160% of your income ( a issue pointed out by toadstool above ) but thats the way HMRC have done , it is your call if you want to claim

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Thanks for clarifying things. I'd made all of my money from the 19/20 financial year before Covid hit and did not make anything in the early months of this financial year, so didn't bother with the first claim. We're only talking a pretty small sum if I apply during the second period, but I'm minded to do it - I'll give it a few more weeks to see exactly how much I get before making a final decision.

It's not what you said ie your last three tax returns submitted. 2019/20 is not taken into account

It's the 3 years 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19. They purposley didn't include 2019/20 in the calculations as people would have had chance to "inflate " their claim" seeing as the filing date for 19/20 has not been reached yet.

If as TOBW is I think saying that his first earnings were in the tax year 2019/20, then he's not eligible to claim. You had to have profits in 2018/19 or the previous 2 years to make the claim.

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Originally Posted by Hot Shot Hamish.

It's not what you said ie your last three tax returns submitted. 2019/20 is not taken into account

It's the 3 years 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19. They purposley didn't include 2019/20 in the calculations as people would have had chance to "inflate " their claim" seeing as the filing date for 19/20 has not been reached yet.

If as TOBW is I think saying that his first earnings were in the tax year 2019/20, then he's not eligible to claim. You had to have profits in 2018/19 or the previous 2 years to make the claim.

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No, I've done two tax returns Hamish, so they'd have to base it on my 18/19 one.

That's right Bob.
But without going too far into your personal affairs Bob, your self employed earnings in that year needs to be more than 50% of your total income to claim. If your pensions are your primary source of income and your self employed earnings are less than 50%, then you will not be eligible. Please don't feel you need to divulge any further information if you wish not to.

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Originally Posted by Hot Shot Hamish.

That's right Bob.
But without going too far into your personal affairs Bob, your self employed earnings in that year needs to be more than 50% of your total income to claim. If your pensions are your primary source of income and your self employed earnings are less than 50%, then you will not be eligible. Please don't feel you need to divulge any further information if you wish not to.

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No, that rules me out then - like I said earlier, my self employed earnings are a supplement to my works pension.

I stand corrected, sorry Bob

I didnt realise about the 50% rule, most ive spoken to / seen discussions online have been SE'ed as a main income

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Originally Posted by blue matt

This Morning i got on here to a message from someone who i class as a decent poster ( of old ) that they were disappointed to read i was cheating the Furlough system, it appears someone ( Jigra i guess :wave: ) is telling anyone who will listen that i have been boasting that i have cheated the Furlough scheme

The guy who messaged me said after i explained to his how it worked, maybe i should post on here so others know, so here it is, the guy might be right, he might not and no-one really gives a hoot about what i do, its longish post ( most of mine are, right ? ) so dont bother reading past here if you are not interested :thumbup:

1st point ( and its pretty big ) I am Self Employed so was never furloughed, the Self employed could NOT be furloughed

The SE'ed could claim a COVID-19: Self-Employment Income Support Scheme (SEISS) payment, which turned into TWO payments

You can only claim if your business has been effected by Covid19, the 2nd payment after the 14th of July

Now i wont go mention figures as that seemed to upset certain people

so let me explain how it works

HMRC take the last THREE tax returns you have submitted
They then work out a Average year
They take the Average year and work out how much profit you have per month ( lets say to keep it simple £1000, these are not my figures )

Now the 1 st payment ( first 3 months ) was for 80% of you profit = £800 per month = £2400
the 2nd payment ( 2nd 3 months ) for 70% of your profit + £700 per mont = £2100

In my case i have lost ( temporally i hope ) between £ 300 and 450, though this week another contract has 1/2'ed the frequency of the cleaaning for the foreseeable so that figure has slightly increased

it makes no difference how much you have lost, it could be £5 a month, you can still claim the above payments

HMRC say the person can still work and still claim this grant,

I trust this puts the record straight

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In simple terms state intervention propping up the free market. Simple Thatcherite economics are, if there's no demand for your service though.

Glad to see everyone is a socialist on this message board though.

Up the workers.

Maybe you should have posted this when Jirga had the opportunity to reply.

You were clearly trying to antagonise him, but in doing so got up the nostrils of other posters with your shameless bragging.

Either way, its not really a good look bragging about the £10k when many people have lost their jobs.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Maybe you should have posted this when Jirga had the opportunity to reply.

You were clearly trying to antagonise him, but in doing so got up the nostrils of other posters with your shameless bragging.

Either way, its not really a good look bragging about the £10k when many people have lost their jobs.

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It would be pretty tasteless boasting about having 10k of taxpayers money that you don't need burning a hole in your pocket at any time, even more so in today's world.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

This Morning i got on here to a message from someone who i class as a decent poster ( of old ) that they were disappointed to read i was cheating the Furlough system, it appears someone ( Jigra i guess :wave: ) is telling anyone who will listen that i have been boasting that i have cheated the Furlough scheme

The guy who messaged me said after i explained to his how it worked, maybe i should post on here so others know, so here it is, the guy might be right, he might not and no-one really gives a hoot about what i do, its longish post ( most of mine are, right ? ) so dont bother reading past here if you are not interested :thumbup:

1st point ( and its pretty big ) I am Self Employed so was never furloughed, the Self employed could NOT be furloughed

The SE'ed could claim a COVID-19: Self-Employment Income Support Scheme (SEISS) payment, which turned into TWO payments

You can only claim if your business has been effected by Covid19, the 2nd payment after the 14th of July

Now i wont go mention figures as that seemed to upset certain people

so let me explain how it works

HMRC take the last THREE tax returns you have submitted
They then work out a Average year
They take the Average year and work out how much profit you have per month ( lets say to keep it simple £1000, these are not my figures )

Now the 1 st payment ( first 3 months ) was for 80% of you profit = £800 per month = £2400
the 2nd payment ( 2nd 3 months ) for 70% of your profit + £700 per mont = £2100

In my case i have lost ( temporally i hope ) between £ 300 and 450, though this week another contract has 1/2'ed the frequency of the cleaaning for the foreseeable so that figure has slightly increased

it makes no difference how much you have lost, it could be £5 a month, you can still claim the above payments

HMRC say the person can still work and still claim this grant,

I trust this puts the record straight

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You really don’t need to justify government grants whilst being SE......particularly because of one loose unit kicking off

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Originally Posted by blue matt

This Morning i got on here to a message from someone who i class as a decent poster ( of old ) that they were disappointed to read i was cheating the Furlough system, it appears someone ( Jigra i guess :wave: ) is telling anyone who will listen that i have been boasting that i have cheated the Furlough scheme

The guy who messaged me said after i explained to his how it worked, maybe i should post on here so others know, so here it is, the guy might be right, he might not and no-one really gives a hoot about what i do, its longish post ( most of mine are, right ? ) so dont bother reading past here if you are not interested :thumbup:

1st point ( and its pretty big ) I am Self Employed so was never furloughed, the Self employed could NOT be furloughed

The SE'ed could claim a COVID-19: Self-Employment Income Support Scheme (SEISS) payment, which turned into TWO payments

You can only claim if your business has been effected by Covid19, the 2nd payment after the 14th of July

Now i wont go mention figures as that seemed to upset certain people

so let me explain how it works

HMRC take the last THREE tax returns you have submitted
They then work out a Average year
They take the Average year and work out how much profit you have per month ( lets say to keep it simple £1000, these are not my figures )

Now the 1 st payment ( first 3 months ) was for 80% of you profit = £800 per month = £2400
the 2nd payment ( 2nd 3 months ) for 70% of your profit + £700 per mont = £2100

In my case i have lost ( temporally i hope ) between £ 300 and 450, though this week another contract has 1/2'ed the frequency of the cleaaning for the foreseeable so that figure has slightly increased

it makes no difference how much you have lost, it could be £5 a month, you can still claim the above payments

HMRC say the person can still work and still claim this grant,

I trust this puts the record straight

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You shouldn't have to justify yourself due to the ignorance of others of how the scheme works (which I'm my view has been incredibly supportive to those who need it ) sadly there's a lot of bitching on this board , driven by politics , envy and differing views .

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Maybe you should have posted this when Jirga had the opportunity to reply.

You were clearly trying to antagonise him, but in doing so got up the nostrils of other posters with your shameless bragging.

Either way, its not really a good look bragging about the £10k when many people have lost their jobs.

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you might find i did, and he ignored it and still kept on getting it wrong

he called me out for Exaggerating for Effect, yet £ 10 K for 6 months work ( at 80 and 70 % ) isnt that much, im SE'ed so no holiday or sick pay, yea sure i wash bird poop of windows, but £10 for 6 months is not a over the top amount, here is the reply i made

I guess with that statement you do not realise how its worked out

HMRC take the last 3 tax returns ( if you have done them, but you do need to have done last years to qualify ) they work out a average monthly income ( which seems fair to me )

then for the 1st payment they gave the the SE'ed 80% of 3 months profit ( inline with the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme or furlough scheme as its commonly called )

now for the 2nd payment its 70% for 3 months ( also inline with the furlough scheme )


so thats 6 months money ( 1 payment 80% and 2nd payment 70% ) so over £10 K now looks like it might not be a Exaggeration for effect afterall

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Originally Posted by lardy

It would be pretty tasteless boasting about having 10k of taxpayers money that you don't need burning a hole in your pocket at any time, even more so in today's world.

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In a Thread about booking holidays, i made a comment " I will soon have over £10 K from Rishsi sat in the bank its burning a hole in my pocket "

if you feel thats boasting, then i cannot help that, plenty of others mentioned holidays they have booked,have been away or were looking at booking, i havent booked so i mentioned i had the £10 K burning a hole in my pocket

Cheers Goats and LoM :thumbup::thumbup:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

You shouldn't have to justify yourself due to the ignorance of others of how the scheme works (which I'm my view has been incredibly supportive to those who need it ) sadly there's a lot of bitching on this board , driven by politics , envy and differing views .

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Being driven 'by differing views' :hehe:

I was self employed one year and PAYE the other so apparently didn't qualify for either.
Or is that wrong?
I know the lack put a hole in my bank account

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Originally Posted by blue matt

it appears someone ( Jigra i guess :wave: ) is telling anyone who will listen that i have been boasting that i have cheated the Furlough scheme

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played the victim and pedalled all sorts of bullshit elsewhere. slanderous to me as well. Troll that even pissed off his new home within a few posts

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Originally Posted by blue matt

if you feel thats boasting, then i cannot help that, plenty of others mentioned holidays they have booked,have been away or were looking at booking, i havent booked so i mentioned i had the £10 K burning a hole in my pocket

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And mentioned it again in the Harry Maguire thread.

I've seen three people (in addition to me and Jirga making five) who thought it was a bit off, you don't but we cannot help that.