Change needed at the club that should not end at Harris

Getting rid of a manager and asking the same people who thought Harris was a good choice is simply falling from one disaster to another.

We've got an investment banker and a car salesman picking who is the best manager to take this club forward.
I would honestly be more confident having a poll on here and pick the winner.

It is incompetence above managerial level that needs changing. People running the club who can see that the academy isn't fit for purpose, has a vision of where they want the club to go, how they want us to play and bring in the managerial personnel to deliver that or at least set out to try and deliver it.

We have these non football people sticking their noses in to tactical affairs as well as negotiating transfers and then feeding back to Vinnie on Skype, when the time difference suits.

If we are to achieve anything worthwhile at this club that is long lasting and strong we need to look at the hierarchy and make the necessary changes. We have had our relative bit of success despite the people making decisions rather than because of them. I am grateful to the money Tan has put in but it is time to stop playing real life Football Manager from the other side of the world and putting people in charge that might make some of his money back.

Putting just another puppet in and telling him to succeed while meddling in his affairs will change very little. We need long term foundations put down and now is the time.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Getting rid of a manager and asking the same people who thought Harris was a good choice is simply falling from one disaster to another.

We've got an investment banker and a car salesman picking who is the best manager to take this club forward.
I would honestly be more confident having a poll on here and pick the winner.

It is incompetence above managerial level that needs changing. People running the club who can see that the academy isn't fit for purpose, has a vision of where they want the club to go, how they want us to play and bring in the managerial personnel to deliver that or at least set out to try and deliver it.

We have these non football people sticking their noses in to tactical affairs as well as negotiating transfers and then feeding back to Vinnie on Skype, when the time difference suits.

If we are to achieve anything worthwhile at this club that is long lasting and strong we need to look at the hierarchy and make the necessary changes. We have had our relative bit of success despite the people making decisions rather than because of them. I am grateful to the money Tan has put in but it is time to stop playing real life Football Manager from the other side of the world and putting people in charge that might make some of his money back.

Putting just another puppet in and telling him to succeed while meddling in his affairs will change very little. We need long term foundations put down and now is the time.

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Top post! :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Getting rid of a manager and asking the same people who thought Harris was a good choice is simply falling from one disaster to another.

We've got an investment banker and a car salesman picking who is the best manager to take this club forward.
I would honestly be more confident having a poll on here and pick the winner.

It is incompetence above managerial level that needs changing. People running the club who can see that the academy isn't fit for purpose, has a vision of where they want the club to go, how they want us to play and bring in the managerial personnel to deliver that or at least set out to try and deliver it.

We have these non football people sticking their noses in to tactical affairs as well as negotiating transfers and then feeding back to Vinnie on Skype, when the time difference suits.

If we are to achieve anything worthwhile at this club that is long lasting and strong we need to look at the hierarchy and make the necessary changes. We have had our relative bit of success despite the people making decisions rather than because of them. I am grateful to the money Tan has put in but it is time to stop playing real life Football Manager from the other side of the world and putting people in charge that might make some of his money back.

Putting just another puppet in and telling him to succeed while meddling in his affairs will change very little. We need long term foundations put down and now is the time.

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Agree with the sentiments but let’s just review.
Tan owns the club 100% and without his money we would have lost our way a few years ago.
His puppet is Choo and he clearly wants his own man at the club.
Dolman is the obvious board member that needs to go, replaced by an older football man.
I don’t think people appreciate the influence someone like Alan Curtis has at Swansea.
That type of appointment, along with a progressive manager, could turn this club around......eventually.

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Originally Posted by DubaiDai

Agree with the sentiments but let’s just review.
Tan owns the club 100% and without his money we would have lost our way a few years ago.
His puppet is Choo and he clearly wants his own man at the club.
Dolman is the obvious board member that needs to go, replaced by an older football man.
I don’t think people appreciate the influence someone like Alan Curtis has at Swansea.
That type of appointment, along with a progressive manager, could turn this club around......eventually.

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I'm not saying get rid of Tan. I am saying he needs to change how he does things and who he employs.

He either continues to throw bad money after good and let Dalman and Choo keep picking managers that aren't up to it, getting their pants pulled down in transfers and the like or he is serious and employs people that will take this club forward.

If we keep Harris he could very well take us down. If he leaves the chuckle brothers to pick the next man and they get it wrong again then we could very well go into a tailspin and who knows where we will end up.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

I'm not saying get rid of Tan. I am saying he needs to change how he does things and who he employs.

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Any ideas on how this could happen? You've got to the crux of a problem, but as far as I can see, one where there is no solution.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Any ideas on how this could happen? You've got to the crux of a problem, but as far as I can see, one where there is no solution.

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That is pretty much it and it is all very depressing.

You have an owner that can't see the wood for the trees and one that isn't going anywhere soon.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

I'm not saying get rid of Tan. I am saying he needs to change how he does things and who he employs.

He either continues to throw bad money after good and let Dalman and Choo keep picking managers that aren't up to it, getting their pants pulled down in transfers and the like or he is serious and employs people that will take this club forward.

If we keep Harris he could very well take us down. If he leaves the chuckle brothers to pick the next man and they get it wrong again then we could very well go into a tailspin and who knows where we will end up.

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I agree but the point I was making is that I cannot see Tan moving Choo out.
A footballing replacement for Dalman might do it, along with a good manager.
Both should have a certain freedom working within budgets set by Tan and Choo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Getting rid of a manager and asking the same people who thought Harris was a good choice is simply falling from one disaster to another.

We've got an investment banker and a car salesman picking who is the best manager to take this club forward.
I would honestly be more confident having a poll on here and pick the winner.

It is incompetence above managerial level that needs changing. People running the club who can see that the academy isn't fit for purpose, has a vision of where they want the club to go, how they want us to play and bring in the managerial personnel to deliver that or at least set out to try and deliver it.

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Phew! Back to my more natural form of disagreeing with you. The board have brought in David Hughes to sort out the academy (who was youth coach at Watford when Sean Dyche was manager), brought in a manager who talks about wanting to end up with 11 home developed players as our starting side and have just signed a young striker to play as a front 2 which, as you've spotted, fits manager's work at his previous club.

The problem is more to do with what the longer term plan is rather than there being a lack of idea of what should happen. That problem is probably based on there being no one at board level pointing out the errors in the desired longer term plan...which is pretty much what you're saying.

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Originally Posted by DubaiDai

I agree but the point I was making is that I cannot see Tan moving Choo out.
A footballing replacement for Dalman might do it, along with a good manager.
Both should have a certain freedom working within budgets set by Tan and Choo

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Nor me if I'm honest.

If he can't see that those two being in charge of football matters is not working then he never will.

I agree a football man who oversaw all the football matters would work but I just can't see it happening. It is what is needed and most here can see it but I don't think it even comes close to dawning on Tan.

I agree with almost all of the comments so far, but would also add that there is something seriously wrong with our coaching.

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Originally Posted by surge

Phew! Back to my more natural form of disagreeing with you. The board have brought in David Hughes to sort out the academy (who was youth coach at Watford when Sean Dyche was manager), brought in a manager who talks about wanting to end up with 11 home developed players as our starting side and have just signed a young striker to play as a front 2 which, as you've spotted, fits manager's work at his previous club.

The problem is more to do with what the longer term plan is rather than there being a lack of idea of what should happen. That problem is probably based on there being no one at board level pointing out the errors in the desired longer term plan...which is pretty much what you're saying.

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You want to be careful.
You almost agreed again at the end there.
:hehe:

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Originally Posted by tforturton

I agree with almost all of the comments so far, but would also add that there is something seriously wrong with our coaching.

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Nathan Blake said the same earlier during commentary.

It comes to something when your average fan on a messageboard (apologies to those with a high opinion of themselves) can quite easily spot the fundamental problems at the club but those who own it and are in charge of fixing the problems at the club can't.

What an absolute joke factory it is at the City at the moment.

I think it’s likely that Vincent Tan still does not trust “football people” after his experience with Malky Mackay. While he realises that you need someone who knows the game to be manager, he’d be reluctant to appoint someone in more of an administrative type role that would get involved to some degree in financial matters - that’s why, although the need is blindingly obvious for a Director of Football type of appointment, I can’t see it happening with this owner.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think it’s likely that Vincent Tan still does not trust “football people” after his experience with Malky Mackay. While he realises that you need someone who knows the game to be manager, he’d be reluctant to appoint someone in more of an administrative type role that would get involved to some degree in financial matters - that’s why, although the need is blindingly obvious for a Director of Football type of appointment, I can’t see it happening with this owner.

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Would love to have Osian Roberts in that roll.

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

Would love to have Osian Roberts in that roll.

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He would be a great fit.

I think he played a huge role in Wales turn around and successes.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

He would be a great fit.

I think he played a huge role in Wales turn around and successes.

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Chances of him leaving Morocco to come to us.

Zero.

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

Chances of him leaving Morocco to come to us.

Zero.

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I wouldn't touch us in our current predicament either.

You look at the meddling that has gone on from those in charge at the club. He would need to be guaranteed free reign to make changes and Tan wouldn't do that.

He would be great if given licence to do his own thing though.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think it’s likely that Vincent Tan still does not trust “football people” after his experience with Malky Mackay. While he realises that you need someone who knows the game to be manager, he’d be reluctant to appoint someone in more of an administrative type role that would get involved to some degree in financial matters - that’s why, although the need is blindingly obvious for a Director of Football type of appointment, I can’t see it happening with this owner.

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I agree that a Director of Football is needed

I disagree with the sentiment that such a man should replace Dalman as Chairman.

Any such appointment would be in addition to Choo and Dalman.

An article I found from 2019 says that 15 premiership clubs have Director of Football ( or Sporting Director or similar title)

Man United Chief Executive Ed Woodward seems to to do both Chief Executive and Director of Football at the moment. Although they are doing well at present he has come in for some criticism in recent years (his background is in accountancy) and United seem to be searching for a Director of Football to work with him.
( I only had a quick look) and didn't have time.

T couldn't find a similar list for championship clubs and didn't have time to look up each each club individually but I suspect there will be less, although I think they will all increasingly find that they need one, particularly if they have Premiership ambitions. Whether they can all afford to fund such a post is another question.

The biggest mystery to me is this:

How is it conceivable that a successful businessman like Tan doesn't look at the way successful football clubs are run and if not quite emulate them then at least get some pointers as to how these clubs are structured ?

Surely it's in his interest to want to maximise his assets and oversee a programme to help bring improvement and sustained success to the club.

I refer to my original post.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

The biggest mystery to me is this:

How is it conceivable that a successful businessman like Tan doesn't look at the way successful football clubs are run and if not quite emulate them then at least get some pointers as to how these clubs are structured ?

Surely it's in his interest to want to maximise his assets and oversee a programme to help bring improvement and sustained success to the club.

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Absolutely. I posted almost exactly the same thing a few weeks ago.

I have a suspicion he treats the club a bit like McDonald's in that setting targets is enough.