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Good read as normal Bob. I made the mistake of coming in via Radyr too. I think it took me an hour and twenty minutes to get to Canton from Pontypridd. On the way home I decided to nip through the City centre to get onto the A470. I reckon my traffic fines for being in bus lanes will cost me more than my season ticket! Amazing how much has changed in 18 months other than our style of play.
Barnsley, as a physical side not afraid to hit it long but also with the capability to play it on the deck, could be a model to emulate for this City team if board and management can commit to taking that much needed development.
I think there are signs that we are changing with average age of squad now much lower and our big lumps of the future having been coached by Arsenal (McGuiness) rather than Leicester Tigers (several examples) but, as you say, without spending power or money raised by transfers this is going to be a slow process.
I hope we don't backtrack on the process though for as excited I was about going again yesterday I walked away feeling tired of that style of play and setting myself up for a very long season - not to tempt fate but can you imagine how dull yesterday would have been if Giles was also unavailable? McGuiness staying in the starting XI and Bowen keeping his spot in matchday squad would be encouraging signs.
As with Harris before him, what under Mick have you seen that suggests he is taking us in a new direction other than the style he has played his entire managerial career?Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
Not a dig but I'm interested.
Many said Harris was taking us in a new direction while playing the same way every week and throwing a few token kids in.
Feels like I answered within my post and in another thread so, shockingly, will decline repeating myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
To comment on one of TOBW's points ("if Barnsley, who have lost their best player, Alex Mowatt to West Brom over the summer, can transform themselves over a few months, why can’t we?") I guess it comes down to whether you think a new manager would be able to change style of play at Cardiff in a few months without spending power or whether you think Barnsley have more of a structure which can cope with that and whether we're building said structure.
Again, there is this unfounded belief that any one of the last three managers have tried to change our style of play to any great degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
I'm not sure they have. Micks system is very route one and for many the wing back system is just 5 at the back (when Bagan doesn't go wandering into the 9 role when the opposition have the ball).
If the club employed a manager who has shown he can play a different style from route one then it would be something. Route one is sadly the bread and butter of the last 3 managers.
For a club to bring about change it has to start in that direction. Sorry but Harris and McCarthy hot in the heels of Warnock is not that. Let's say for arguments sake we're playing free flowing football up to Under 23 level. What is the point if the first team manager wants to play negative route one and nick games off set pieces?
The angle used for Swansea fans to get in touch on Rob Phillips' phone in was a ll about Russell Martin and a return to the "Swansea Way" and when a City fan mentioned our style of play, Rob said "that's not an issue with Cardiff fans though is it?" as Jason Perry weighed in with the line that Cardiff fans want effort from their team first and foremost.
I don't dispute what Jason says, City fans have always been like that, but this is a line that is always trotted out when the discussion heads a certain way and the way it's repeated by managers and players makes me think that this is something they are told by those who have been attached to the club for years when they first arrive.
As I say, I don't think it's wrong as such, but that shouldn't mean that concerns about the style of play we've used for a long time now should be just swept under the carpet.
The thing is, is the criticism I hear so often, and definitely share myself, as widespread as I believe it to be? If you take my blog as an example, the large majority of responses I have about our style of play are critical, but am I bound to attract those sort of replies when I consistently have a go at the way we play? Someone like dml 1954 always talks about a small clique of critical fans on places like this, but the vast majority of fans are perfectly happy with their lot - I think he's wrong, but cannot say that for sure because so many people choose to live in echo chambers these days where they just hear what they want to.
Seriously, I've had my fill of City sides playing in such a turgid way now and it's beginning to affect my attitude towards the team. It doesn't help matters either that the folk from forty miles down the road can, apparently, get what they want after they think a manager was too "boring" and yet it seems we're expected to just put up with the stuff we've been fed for ages - stuff that is in my view, far worse than anything the jacks did under Steve Cooper if you're talking about style of play.
Given how much life has changed in the last 18 months, it would have been genuinely terrifying if City started playing free flowing attacking football on Saturday. I would have come out of the ground expecting to see the four horsemen of the apocalypse riding over the horizon.
Swansea have been mentioned now so perhaps time to see what Stuart James (The Athletic) is saying about Russell Martin's 3-5-2 which, in theory, is the same formation we play:
One of those commenting on your blog said they'd been bored into not renewing for next year, if we renew majority of contracts of the players who appear so uncomfortable on the ball (Flint, Nelson, Ralls, Vaulks) or players who are so slow they get others into trouble (Pack) then I'll be joining them in not renewing. I can understand why we're still playing this way this year but we now have the opportunity for major change going into next season and first signs of where we're going will be i) winter transfer window and ii) contract offers to senior players.Quote:
The biggest miss for Swansea today compared to last season stood out a mile: Marc Guehi - confident stepping out from the back, excellent passer, able to play off either foot.
Don’t expect Russell Martin to turn water into wine - he’s going to need a ball-playing centre-back.
He’s (Naughton) not going to play the role of the middle defender, who every pass from Benda went through today. You need someone who can hit diagonals and step out with the ball in that position. That’s not Naughton. It’s not Bennett either.
Said exactly the same to @StevenSOS1987 next to me. If we’re going to always play out through the same player, ie the middle defender (Bennett today), I’d play Grimes there.
I’m talking about the middle of the three - every pass from a restart with Benda went through Bennett today. The other two wide centre backs pushed up. Someone is needed to play Bennett’s role - that player will get more of the ball than anyone else in Martin’s system.
He’s (Bennett) 31. You can improve people in training, of course. But I hope people don’t expect Martin to turn people into something they’re not.
https://twitter.com/stujames75/statu...12063924871174
Thanks for that link which I think has relevance to us, but, just to make a comment about the jacks first. Based on what I've seen of Ryan Bennett through his long career, he's not able to play in the manner which Martin seems to want him to - I agree with the conclusion that reporter comes to.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
I wonder if Martin would consider Marlon Pack in that role if he was a Swansea player? Pack seemed up for a continuation of the experiment of playing in the back three when it was tried at the back end of last season, saying that he was in favour of anything which added another string to his bow so to speak, but Mick McCarthy clearly was not convinced by it.
The change to our defence through the summer was the signing of Mark McGuiness who, with his Arsenal upbringing and a few comments I've read about him being comfortable on the ball would appear to be the one to play in the role Martin has Bennett playing at Swansea in the very unlikely event of us switching our approach with the current staff. Could he manage that? I really don't know because, after seeing him play three or four times now, I've still don't have any firm opinions on McGuiness yet - I thought he was beaten far too easily by Morris early on Saturday during the time when the applause for Peter Whittingham was going on, but, that apart, I thought he was pretty sound defensively - I still haven't seen much evidence that he is as comfortable on the ball as he's supposed to be though.
I must say as well that I don't think we played too much back to front, long aimless balls against Newport or against Barnsley, but the problem for us is that we have an experienced core of players who come across as being uncomfortable in possession who play in areas where the system of play used originates from.
We can hardly play an effective passing game when so many of those who would be integral to it are so limited in ball retention and the more of I think about it, the more I realise that my frustration and, at times, anger with the side stems more from the fact that successive managers going back to Russell Slade have done nothing to tackle what I'd say is a fundamental flaw - in fact, in some cases, they seem to have encouraged it.
Annoying isn't it. Surely every clubs fans want to see effort, work rate and determination from their teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
That should be a prerequisite not a style.
Agreed, that's probably why I don't place much emphasis on it, it's a given surely? Going back about a quarter of a century, I can remember Kenny Hibbitt saying when he signed Gareth Stoker that City fans would love him - having watched him perform for us for a couple of years, I can only imagine Hibbitt had been fed the line about how City fans love players who are all about effort, but I'm afraid all I ever saw from Stoker was a headless chicken impersonation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
The new direction is to convert younger players into hoofers.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue lewj
No-one is asking for amazing, silky football on par with the Dave Jones days.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
But straight from kickoff on the opening day of the season, to knock it back to Flint to smash out of play after 5 seconds is taking the piss.
To be honest I though we were awful on Saturday, the worst game of football I've seen for......18 months! I am glad I am high up in the grandstand as I saw the ball up there quite a lot. Being fair though, it was our first game of the season, McGuinness, Collins and Giles were all making their debuts, and Bagan has only previously started five League games. It would be nice if we had a midfielder who could pass like Peter Whittingham, as good as he was I don't think we realised at the time just how good he was.
As for the Jacks, according to their manager they controlled the game and should have won. But their fans think they were abysmal! They passed it around a lot at the back and got robbed of possession quite often which created shots on goal for Blackburn. Another Swansea manager who can tell a story to the fans, do they think fans are stupid?
It'll be interesting to see what side MM puts out against Sutton tomorrow.
We could be pretty direct under Dave Jones too. I'm confident that our passing accuracy would have been a lot higher though.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastbourneBlue
The common thread in all of this is the board. Since Slade, they’ve constantly picked (aside from Trollope) the same style of manager because they’re too afraid to try anything else.
We desperately need a Director of Football.
As for the “triers” comment. It’s as irksome as the “plucky little Cardiff” quote. It all harks back to when we were at Ninian Park, playing in the Fourth Division. That’s in the past now, time to get into the current day.
If the club want to attract youngsters to come and support the team, they’ve got to serve up something people want to watch and what they’re giving is the equivalent of a “traditional” roast (beef like leather, vegetables that fall to pieces), when these days people want something more sophisticated,
I had a grumble Saturday night, I'm no football purist but come on once in a while go short.
From the 1st kick to the last it was boom have it.
I think my disappointment was increased because MM has absolutely no intention of changing the style not now not ever.
Well, a few replies today with all of them indicating a degree of dissatisfaction with the way we play the game, but I dare say someone seeking to defend City would say something like “yeah, but that’s on a messageboard where you tend to get a lot of moaners, if you spoke to the so called silent majority, you’d get a completely different response”.
Certainly, the media seems to believe that to be the case. I mentioned Rob Phillips’ reaction to a fan ringing up to criticise our style of play and I’ve heard similar on Elis James’ podcast where they seem to think City fans don’t mind too much about the quality of the football as long as the players show the effort and get stuck in. Yet I can only go by what I hear and read from Supporters (I know Sludge likes it, but he’s the only one I’ve come across who does :hehe:) and the overwhelming response is that the media are reading us wrongly.
I just want to win. Thats it.
If we do it playing great football terrific.
Absolutely, let's see where we are come October before we start banging on about the cardiff way ,whatever that isQuote:
Originally Posted by Cardiff Ultra
Well, I’ve been waiting about ten years for a consistently entertaining Cardiff side, if you’re promising one by October I suppose I can hang on for another two months.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars