We have two choices...

It seems to me that the club has a decision to make, very soon, and it comes down to a choice between two things. Either we keep Bulut, and let him continue with his plan. Or we let his contract lapse, and start all over again, with someone else. You can argue the pros and cons for both sides:

Extend Bulut's contract
From the club's point of view, this is the easiest decision; after all, they're not good at decision-making. Extend Bulut's deal for another season, or even two. The club has been crying out for some sort of stability for a number of years, and the club constantly chopping and changing managers (and coaching teams) has achieved little apart from proving that argument for stability.
Bulut has only been here for a season, and has only had one clear transfer window, so you could argue that his plan is only halfway to completion. This coming summer could see the arrival of the next part of the jigsaw - a striker or two, a good number 10, whatever. If we let him go, then some other man will arrive, and rip the whole thing up.
There's also the argument that Bulut is Dalman's appointment, a concession by Tan that he will hold over Dalman's head, if it goes wrong. If that was the case, then Dalman will want to keep him on, while Tan, well, Tan just wants to see good football.

Let Bulut go, and get a new manager
And if Tan really likes to watch good football, then Bulut is gone already. Even the biggest City fans must despair at the football on show, especially at home games. What is strange, though, is how we manage to hold down a safe mid-table slot, when for the most part, we are slow, predictable, and easy to beat. Is this Bulut's plan starting to bear fruit, or is it happening despite his efforts, rather than because of them?
Looking at the empty seats at the CCS, people are voting with their feet. Mid-table or not, City are not good to watch, and entertainment is what it's all about. So Tan thanks Bulut for his efforts, and sends him the same way as Lamouchi. And we start again.
But who do we hire? Can we get the likes of Steve Cooper? Can we afford him? Or are we going to do the usual - spend weeks thinking about it, only to appoint someone we've never heard of, who then has no time to bring in new players? It could be Tan already knows who he wants, has spoken to the guy, and he will start the day Bulut leaves, but I doubt it.
It would be great to have a new and progressive manager at Cardiff, but that's what we've been looking for, for a good few years, and it's no closer.

So here are the choices -
1. Keep Bulut, give the club some stability, and take a chance on his plans coming to fruition.
2. Get someone else, and start over.

You pays your money, and you takes your choice....

The thing is I don't like bulut or his anti football but letting Tan choose somebody else is even more worrying.
At least Bulut has worked to a certain degree.

As you alluded to, the one thing that may have a bearing on the club's decision is the dwindling crowds due to the poor fare on offer. If this is extended to a vastly decreased number of season tickets purchased, the board may decide enough is enough and pull the plug on Bulut's project.

The only way forward is a DOF. Otherwise, we're going to be stuck in a cycle of new managers, new players and a new system. We'll never have a chance to build. Unless, we can come up with a known quantity with a track record of sustainable, entertaining football. I'd be inclined to give Bulut a 2 year deal and some money to spend. We have to stop relying on loans.

I'd say keep bulut only because he seems willing to stand up to tan and speak out publicly.

But that's why he won't be here next season and I suspect he knows it.

However his football is awful so I'd shed no tears I just think we would get worse.

2 - Get someone else in, plan for that now.

I know I'm repeating myself, but this season has only been better than previous seasons because we've managed to pinch wins, particularly away from home, late on in games. It's not as if we've become a top half side by playing better football, or more exciting football, or our players have improved since the first few months. It's been mainly attritional, defensive, slow, passive shit designed to keep things tight with the hope of pinching points from set pieces.

I haven't seen anything from Bulut to suggest he's a tactical wizard - if anything, he sticks to his guns, whether it works or not. We don't seem to have a plan B.

Most of the comments relating to keeping Bulut is a lack of trust in our owner to get the next appointment right. That basically means we're in the shit. We keep a crap manager in case we get an even worse one. What a fecking mess.

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Originally Posted by tforturton

It seems to me that the club has a decision to make, very soon, and it comes down to a choice between two things. Either we keep Bulut, and let him continue with his plan. Or we let his contract lapse, and start all over again, with someone else. You can argue the pros and cons for both sides:

Extend Bulut's contract
From the club's point of view, this is the easiest decision; after all, they're not good at decision-making. Extend Bulut's deal for another season, or even two. The club has been crying out for some sort of stability for a number of years, and the club constantly chopping and changing managers (and coaching teams) has achieved little apart from proving that argument for stability.
Bulut has only been here for a season, and has only had one clear transfer window, so you could argue that his plan is only halfway to completion. This coming summer could see the arrival of the next part of the jigsaw - a striker or two, a good number 10, whatever. If we let him go, then some other man will arrive, and rip the whole thing up.
There's also the argument that Bulut is Dalman's appointment, a concession by Tan that he will hold over Dalman's head, if it goes wrong. If that was the case, then Dalman will want to keep him on, while Tan, well, Tan just wants to see good football.

Let Bulut go, and get a new manager
And if Tan really likes to watch good football, then Bulut is gone already. Even the biggest City fans must despair at the football on show, especially at home games. What is strange, though, is how we manage to hold down a safe mid-table slot, when for the most part, we are slow, predictable, and easy to beat. Is this Bulut's plan starting to bear fruit, or is it happening despite his efforts, rather than because of them?
Looking at the empty seats at the CCS, people are voting with their feet. Mid-table or not, City are not good to watch, and entertainment is what it's all about. So Tan thanks Bulut for his efforts, and sends him the same way as Lamouchi. And we start again.
But who do we hire? Can we get the likes of Steve Cooper? Can we afford him? Or are we going to do the usual - spend weeks thinking about it, only to appoint someone we've never heard of, who then has no time to bring in new players? It could be Tan already knows who he wants, has spoken to the guy, and he will start the day Bulut leaves, but I doubt it.
It would be great to have a new and progressive manager at Cardiff, but that's what we've been looking for, for a good few years, and it's no closer.

So here are the choices -
1. Keep Bulut, give the club some stability, and take a chance on his plans coming to fruition.
2. Get someone else, and start over.

You pays your money, and you takes your choice....

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Under option 2 I sincerely hope that VT doesn`try to enforce his wish to bring back Steve Morison

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Originally Posted by Ninian1962

Under option 2 I sincerely hope that VT doesn`try to enforce his wish to bring back Steve Morison

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This has always bemused me as tan I assume was the one who sacked him yet wants to bring him back - very unlike tan ? Did we ever find out why he got sacked

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Originally Posted by insider

The thing is I don't like bulut or his anti football but letting Tan choose somebody else is even more worrying.
At least Bulut has worked to a certain degree.

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Anti-football, interesting term, i believe coined by the Catalan Press in 2011 when Barça met Man Utd in the Champions League final. Wiff of snobbery, arrogance, and lack of understanding of how games can be played. Horrible new lexicon, please try to refrain from using it in future lol 😆

Not quite as bad as the "west ham way" bit equally cringe

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

2 - Get someone else in, plan for that now.

I know I'm repeating myself, but this season has only been better than previous seasons because we've managed to pinch wins, particularly away from home, late on in games. It's not as if we've become a top half side by playing better football, or more exciting football, or our players have improved since the first few months. It's been mainly attritional, defensive, slow, passive shit designed to keep things tight with the hope of pinching points from set pieces.

I haven't seen anything from Bulut to suggest he's a tactical wizard - if anything, he sticks to his guns, whether it works or not. We don't seem to have a plan B.

Most of the comments relating to keeping Bulut is a lack of trust in our owner to get the next appointment right. That basically means we're in the shit. We keep a crap manager in case we get an even worse one. What a fecking mess.

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But i thought all his wins came from substitutes and late on in the game, when he's made changes etc which by your own stats suggest he does in fact have a very successful plan B?

Plan B, not quite anti-football but equally as bad as the "swansea way".

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Originally Posted by OurManFlint II

Anti-football, interesting term, i believe coined by the Catalan Press in 2011 when Barça met Man Utd in the Champions League final. Wiff of snobbery, arrogance, and lack of understanding of how games can be played. Horrible new lexicon, please try to refrain from using it in future lol 😆

Not quite as bad as the "west ham way" bit equally cringe

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You garnered a lot from that.
I think you are thinking too deeply
Anti-football =
Opposite to what football should be.
Get down the flanks getting the ball in the box actually attacking and winning at home. Instead we get laboured passing across the pitch using players that have no pace or ability to do it.

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Originally Posted by insider

You garnered a lot from that.
I think you are thinking too deeply
Anti-football =
Opposite to what football should be.
Get down the flanks getting the ball in the box actually attacking and winning at home. Instead we get laboured passing across the pitch using players that have no pace or ability to do it.

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No, read it again. i was identifying the term which i think was invented by the english but got traction
by FC Barcelona and Catalan players who had a superiority complex, however, due to the popular global reach of the game it was was picked up and pushed into the mainstream by Catalan/Spanish press towards man utd (and other English teams that year) due to contrasting styles, its a terrible clique, i was hoping to give you some context to the phrase.

If Bulut stays, I foresee next season being one of attritional mediocrity, perhaps flirting with relegation but not down at the very bottom of the table. If he goes, well, anything could happen, but the chances of relegation must be more likely. What fun.

It's been a weird and at times frustrating season. I keep swinging between thinking it's gone well and badly..

But, I do think there are grounds for optimism and I sense that Bulut has a vision and deserves a second season. Aside from anything else, I don't think finishing mid table is ever cause to change managers unless real stagnation kicks in, and we aren't there yet.

I'm right behind him tbh.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's been a weird and at times frustrating season. I keep swinging between thinking it's gone well and badly..

But, I do think there are grounds for optimism and I sense that Bulut has a vision and deserves a second season. Aside from anything else, I don't think finishing mid table is ever cause to change managers unless real stagnation kicks in, and we aren't there yet.

I'm right behind him tbh.

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This is my view too :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by OurManFlint II

No, read it again. i was identifying the term which i think was invented by the english but got traction
by FC Barcelona and Catalan players who had a superiority complex, however, due to the popular global reach of the game it was was picked up and pushed into the mainstream by Catalan/Spanish press towards man utd (and other English teams that year) due to contrasting styles, its a terrible clique, i was hoping to give you some context to the phrase.

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What is Bulut’s brand of football “pro” then? How, apart from blind loyalty, does it fire up supporters and get them looking forward to his team’s next game? Lots of teams play a counter attacking game in which they are happy to give their opponents possession, but there aren’t many that do it in such a dull fashion as a Bulut team.

As to the original question, I think it needs to be borne in mind that it’s almost certainly true to say that some managers who might otherwise be interested in the Cardiff job are put off by the prospect of working for our owner.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

The only way forward is a DOF. Otherwise, we're going to be stuck in a cycle of new managers, new players and a new system. We'll never have a chance to build. Unless, we can come up with a known quantity with a track record of sustainable, entertaining football. I'd be inclined to give Bulut a 2 year deal and some money to spend. We have to stop relying on loans.

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In all the conversations about Dalman Choo Tan and Bulut and their lack of football sense for my 2 shillings I believe that appointing a proper professional DoF would resolve many of the key expressed concerns

Obviously mid table is far better than a relegation battle, but I can see nothing to suggest that can be built on.
I wouldn't extend his contract, but that does then make me worry about who the hell they'd replace him with.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

What is Bulut’s brand of football “pro” then? How, apart from blind loyalty, does it fire up supporters and get them looking forward to his team’s next game? Lots of teams play a counter attacking game in which they are happy to give their opponents possession, but there aren’t many that do it in such a dull fashion as a Bulut team.

As to the original question, I think it needs to be borne in mind that it’s almost certainly true to say that some managers who might otherwise be interested in the Cardiff job are put off by the prospect of working for our owner.

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I have a guess. Bulut’s slower style is more reminiscient of Southern Med football. Geared to hot climates that is what he is used to. You very rarely see teams from hot countries to play fast non-stop footy. It isn’t sustainable in the heat. They play generally slower only with fast bursts in phases.

If that is fhe style he is used to, and that is his reason, then it may explain why he doesn’t change, if he and his No.2 haven’t coached that way. It may explain it. If true, it shows a lack of research by the club. It is why a better quality analysis of coaches is required.

If I were Cardiff, I would go and get the brains behind Swansea’s person who used to analyse and select coaches pre-US ownership, because that worked for them. They found consistent line of coaches who played a good style and found bargains in the UK and European market on regular basis.

As long as they weren’t die-hard Swansea fans and are open to recruitment at a good fee, if I would Dalman, Choo or Tan I would go and dig into that story.