Autumn Statement

Some good proposals especially with regards to caps on private sector rental admin fees. It has been an issues seen by many charities:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ab...umn-statement/

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Originally Posted by surge

Some good proposals especially with regards to caps on private sector rental admin fees. It has been an issues seen by many charities:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ab...umn-statement/

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Of course there is a danger that the cost is added to rents already spiraling out of control.

Also, such a large amount of money set aside for Grammar Schools when it seems a move to help so few is an odd one.

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Originally Posted by surge

Of course there is a danger that the cost is added to rents already spiraling out of control.

Also, such a large amount of money set aside for Grammar Schools when it seems a move to help so few is an odd one.

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Just blame Brexit :biggrin::thumbup:

Fiddling around the edges?

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

When Osbourne said we are 1.5 trillion in debt and every year we spend 80 billion more than we raise in taxes - Labours answer was to spend spend spend , and ranted at the Tories for trying to cut the debt / deficit.

Now post Brexit the Govt have realised that they will need to spend in the short term to try and offset any potential Brexit issues so Hammond has decided to spend money on the Northern Powerhouse infrastructure, new technology etc as well as the personal allowance just about doubled - so every on low incomes pays less income tax.

And what is Corbyn / McDonalds answer - they criticise Hammond for adding to the debt and postponing the deficit reduction plan - I know it is their job to oppose everything the Tories do but FFS

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Quite spectacular irony.

Putting the brexit stuff to one side for a minute.

In my opinion the scale of the downwards revision of the growth estimate is a very clear indication that the Tories have damaged the uk economy by pursuing their ideological regime of cuts.
The economy has been choked back by their cuts at a time we should have been investing in infrastructure, they have instead used the defecit that arose from the global financial crisis to try to reshape the uk the way they would like to see it and dismantle the state.

Clearly it isn't working though, as the defecit remains and will remain deep into the next parliament.

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

When Osbourne said we are 1.5 trillion in debt and every year we spend 80 billion more than we raise in taxes - Labours answer was to spend spend spend , and ranted at the Tories for trying to cut the debt / deficit.

Now post Brexit the Govt have realised that they will need to spend in the short term to try and offset any potential Brexit issues so Hammond has decided to spend money on the Northern Powerhouse infrastructure, new technology etc as well as the personal allowance just about doubled - so every on low incomes pays less income tax.

And what is Corbyn / McDonalds answer - they criticise Hammond for adding to the debt and postponing the deficit reduction plan - I know it is their job to oppose everything the Tories do but FFS

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So you think the main consequence of yesterday's statement was that the Labour party should be attacked? I can't see a set of circumstances whereby I'll ever vote for Corbyn and his cabal, but, come on, they're hardly the issue here.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Putting the brexit stuff to one side for a minute.

In my opinion the scale of the downwards revision of the growth estimate is a very clear indication that the Tories have damaged the uk economy by pursuing their ideological regime of cuts.
The economy has been choked back by their cuts at a time we should have been investing in infrastructure, they have instead used the defecit that arose from the global financial crisis to try to reshape the uk the way they would like to see it and dismantle the state.

Clearly it isn't working though, as the defecit remains and will remain deep into the next parliament.

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I'll make one brief mention of Brexit before putting it to one side. It's all very well Nelsonca61 making ironic "Just blame Brexit" comments, but when the Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR) says that it will cost the country £58.7 billion, it has to be a factor if it is a question of apportioning "blame", even if the estimate turns out to be an inflated one.

That said, I agree with what you say. As is the norm on such occasions, the Chancellor paid a tribute to his predecessor at the start of his statement, but then it seemed to me that he spent the next hour or so implying that George Osbourne had got things spectacularly wrong.

How else do you explain the revelation that the Government are going to have to borrow an extra £122 billion (as forecast by the OBR) that didn't feature in Osbourne's final budget eight months ago? Of course, there's that sum for Brexit, but the obvious question that arises is why the need for another £63 billion?

Having looked at the opinion columns of a few papers this morning, it seems that Hammond's natural caution is a factor here, but, even allowing for that, it's hardly reassuring that the two men who have been responsible for guiding the nation's finances during 2016 have such differing interpretations. Surely it must mean that one or both of them have got things wrong on a grand scale and there was me thinking it was only the Labour party that made a balls up of financial administration and planning!

To have to admit that the policy which was probably the main plank of their election campaign from six years earlier has had to be shelved because it is unattainable should be a source of huge embarrassment for any governing party (and let's not even mention Cameron and May's pledge on future immigration figures or the referendum the former called solely to try to quieten a few troublesome backbenchers here), but with the so called Opposition little more than a rabble, it seems that the Tories will be able to brazen their way through like they usually do.

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

I think to be fair Osbourne's fiscal policy was predicated on Brexit not happening.
Are you happy with a 1.9 trillion debt or 90% of GDP , Im not - but what the f uck do I know.
Hammond has had no choice but to do this spending policy to keep the economy ticking over in case there is a post brexit slump.

My irony alert was that Osbourne's policy was that we need to stop spending and get the deficit under control - you cant have a situation where on top of a massive debt each year the deficit increases by 80 odd billion.
Labour's position on that was that the Govt should have been spending much much more money - and now the irony of all ironies Hammond has no choice but to increase spending (massively due to Brexit) and McDonald starts telling him he shouldn't be increasing the debt !!!

This same issue was discussed last night on Newsnight and again this morning on Radio 4 - What Hammond said yesterday could have been a Labour budget response a few years back

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I think you have misunderstood labour's position on this.

They are criticising the government foe not having got the debt under control, not for raising spending.
The criticism is they aren't spending enough and they should have started it 6 years ago. It is too little too late.

Labour's own plans would have been a real stimulus. But instead the Tories have wasted 6 years and let the debt problem get worse while making services much worse. They are a shambles

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

Labour criticised the Conservatives for not spending
Labour are now criticising The Conservatives for spending
That's what the opposition do I guess - simples.
Tories would have probably done the same
Yet another irony is that Trump is planning to do the same.

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You criticised Labour for spending plans that would add to the debt.
The tories have spent 6 years adding to the debt and now plan to carry on with that.
You reach for excuse after excuse every time they have to quietly announce that they have missed the targets again.
When does a fanatic's patience run out?

I didn't agree with swingeing cuts but I certainly don't agree with swingeing cuts that get us absolutely nowhere. Could we actually be in a worse position if we had a Labour government for the last 6 years? Services destroyed, debt still climbing way past the 'deadline' date. Reaching a level where economists insist that it WILL negatively affect growth.

I agree they had a difficult job on their hands but they insisted they could do it. I think many people secretly settled for a Tory government because they actually believed the lies. It is pretty apparent to me now that they have no idea what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

I think to be fair Osbourne's fiscal policy was predicated on Brexit not happening.
Are you happy with a 1.9 trillion debt or 90% of GDP , Im not - but what the f uck do I know.
Hammond has had no choice but to do this spending policy to keep the economy ticking over in case there is a post brexit slump.

My irony alert was that Osbourne's policy was that we need to stop spending and get the deficit under control - you cant have a situation where on top of a massive debt each year the deficit increases by 80 odd billion.
Labour's position on that was that the Govt should have been spending much much more money - and now the irony of all ironies Hammond has no choice but to increase spending (massively due to Brexit) and McDonald starts telling him he shouldn't be increasing the debt !!!

This same issue was discussed last night on Newsnight and again this morning on Radio 4 - What Hammond said yesterday could have been a Labour budget response a few years back

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And you would have vehemently disagreed with it then, but agree with it now because of who said it!!

Tory's now think you invest to grow the economy? I thought we had to fix the roof, balance the books, save for a rainy day?

They have absolutely no clue, Labour probably don't either because the top jobs are mostly filled with people who wouldn't get close normally.

British politics is in a state of emergency and you still blindly trust and believe anyone in a blue rosette.

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Originally Posted by surge

Of course there is a danger that the cost is added to rents already spiraling out of control.

Also, such a large amount of money set aside for Grammar Schools when it seems a move to help so few is an odd one.

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Landlords already paid for letting fees. This will allow a transparent market. Tenants never realised that not only did they pay extortionate fees, but the landlord did too. Landlords will have to pay more, but landlords can shop around, unlike the tenants. So the letting agents will loose out of some money through competition.

About bloody time, they make a fortune for doing very little. Thats why they all drive nice cars.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Putting the brexit stuff to one side for a minute.

In my opinion the scale of the downwards revision of the growth estimate is a very clear indication that the Tories have damaged the uk economy by pursuing their ideological regime of cuts.
The economy has been choked back by their cuts at a time we should have been investing in infrastructure, they have instead used the defecit that arose from the global financial crisis to try to reshape the uk the way they would like to see it and dismantle the state.

Clearly it isn't working though, as the deficit remains and will remain deep into the next parliament.

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Actually its a Remain chancellor putting out the worst case scenario. So when he has had a few years in the job he can say: Look how well I did, I spent 80bn less than forecast (which will actually be 40bn more than before these forecasts). Dont get taken in by it. He has admitted they have no idea what will happen, so they give a worst case scenario, to make things look better is years to come.

And growth forecasts are actually up on pre brexit forecasts of brexit. They predicted a bad recession. Now growth is happening, even on a worst case scenario.

How you can say the UK economy is damaged when we are the strongest growing economy in the western world. The economy is doing very well considering our european neighbours.

Infrastructure spending has happened under the tories, though it was choked right off when they came in. New nuclear, new rail, new runways. All 40 years overdue, all infrastructure spending approved under the tories.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon

Actually its a Remain chancellor putting out the worst case scenario. So when he has had a few years in the job he can say: Look how well I did, I spent 80bn less than forecast (which will actually be 40bn more than before these forecasts). Dont get taken in by it. He has admitted they have no idea what will happen, so they give a worst case scenario, to make things look better is years to come.

And growth forecasts are actually up on pre brexit forecasts of brexit. They predicted a bad recession. Now growth is happening, even on a worst case scenario.

How you can say the UK economy is damaged when we are the strongest growing economy in the western world. The economy is doing very well considering our european neighbours.

Infrastructure spending has happened under the tories, though it was choked right off when they came in. New nuclear, new rail, new runways. All 40 years overdue, all infrastructure spending approved under the tories.

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The global financial crisis strangely enough mostly effected the financial sector, and the uk having such a massive financial sector was hit harder than most. As that has recovered though you would expect the uk economy to recover faster than others, because it fell more than others. It is just smoke and mirrors depending on where you start counting from.

Of the black hole in the latest figures varoubd half is attributed to brexit and the rest to Tories mid management of the economy.
This means that brexit is predicted to be a disaster for us financially, but the Tories have been just as much of a disaster

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Originally Posted by Rjk

The global financial crisis strangely enough mostly effected the financial sector, and the uk having such a massive financial sector was hit harder than most. As that has recovered though you would expect the uk economy to recover faster than others, because it fell more than others. It is just smoke and mirrors depending on where you start counting from.

Of the black hole in the latest figures varoubd half is attributed to brexit and the rest to Tories mid management of the economy.
This means that brexit is predicted to be a disaster for us financially, but the Tories have been just as much of a disaster

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Predicted is a bit of a strong word in this case. They have allowed 60bn. In what would certainly seem from the tone of the statement a worst case scenario. In reality no-one knows if a £60bn windfall in taxes would happen over a £60bn loss in revenue.

And to call a government approving 60bn worth of spending, some that is 40 years overdue a disaster is either just you playing politics or a misunderstanding. Approving schemes that need to be done, as part of this additional spending that can give the economy a little boost to ensure some stability is the right thing to do. What would you recommend they did to stabilise the uncertainty? Just leave it?

Funny how tories who backed austerity to the hilt now think that spending is the right thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon

Predicted is a bit of a strong word in this case. They have allowed 60bn. In what would certainly seem from the tone of the statement a worst case scenario. In reality no-one knows if a £60bn windfall in taxes would happen over a £60bn loss in revenue.

And to call a government approving 60bn worth of spending, some that is 40 years overdue a disaster is either just you playing politics or a misunderstanding. Approving schemes that need to be done, as part of this additional spending that can give the economy a little boost to ensure some stability is the right thing to do. What would you recommend they did to stabilise the uncertainty? Just leave it?

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It is a bit disingenuous to say that 60bn is a worst case scenario, and it could just as easily be a 60bn windfall. That's the kind of rubbish that Rees mogg has been spouting today, with his usual disregard for experts.
In fact 60bn is a prediction and the situation could be better or worse than that over the course of the parliament.

I also don't think you understood the point i was making regarding the other 60bn or so that will be missing from the economy. This isn't because the Tories are spending it on investing in the economy it is because the growth in the economy has been revised downwards because the Tories haven't been investing sufficiently in the economy.

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Originally Posted by Kiffa

Funny how tories who backed austerity to the hilt now think that spending is the right thing to do.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Kiffa

Funny how tories who backed austerity to the hilt now think that spending is the right thing to do.

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true , you'd never get labour supporters flip flopping with their party

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Originally Posted by Packerman

true , you'd never get labour supporters flip flopping with their party

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I was a rock solid Labour voter until I was about forty five, but then they became a tory lite party and I that's when I started voting for other parties.

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Originally Posted by ninianclark

What other parties Bob - Green , Plaid, Lib Dem, Communist Workers Party, Monster Raving Loony Party ?

There is not 1 party that floats my boat just varying degrees that I dislike one more than the other.

Welsh Labour down the bay I find the most annoying though.

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I've voted for three of those you list - the boring ones :hehe:.

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Originally Posted by surge

Some good proposals especially with regards to caps on private sector rental admin fees. It has been an issues seen by many charities:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ab...umn-statement/

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Very dissapointed by some of the early morning Radio Wales presenters this week wanting to shoe horn the "JAMS" into every conversation with one of them almost giggling when using the word.