Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

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26-02-22, 21:14
Jimmy the Jock

Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

Watch the first 40 minutes . It is eye opening . Scary .... Not quite as cut and dried as we are being led to believe .

Thats my take on it.
26-02-22, 21:15
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Thanks , will have a gander over a cuppa in the morning
26-02-22, 21:35
Armitage Shanks

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

I've been watching Russia today alot over the past few days, they give (obviously) an alternative viewpoint of how's it has come to this
26-02-22, 21:46
Jimmy the Jock

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

I've been watching Russia today alot over the past few days, they give (obviously) an alternative viewpoint of how's it has come to this

This guy is part Russian part American and part French . He seems to be disarmingly honest about the situation.
Perhaps he has his own agenda ?

I like to try and get a 360 degree view , this is a perhaps an alternative view to why we have arrived at this awful point in history.
26-02-22, 21:59
Q

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

This guy is part Russian part American and part French . He seems to be disarmingly honest about the situation.
Perhaps he has his own agenda ?

I like to try and get a 360 degree view , this is a perhaps an alternative view to why we have arrived at this awful point in history.

There’s no such things as a documentary without an agenda. He definitely has one
26-02-22, 22:02
Jimmy the Jock

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q

There’s no such things as a documentary without an agenda. He definitely has one

Did you watch it?
26-02-22, 23:32
NYCBlue

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

I've been watching Russia today alot over the past few days, they give (obviously) an alternative viewpoint of how's it has come to this

Why would you watch a Russian, state-controlled news outlet?
26-02-22, 23:48
life on mars

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

I get sense of Russian love in hear maybe I'm wrong??

Let's remember Ukraine gave up it's Nuclear weapons and now it's people live in terror and are not allowed to join any organisation because uncle Puchface says so . FFS
27-02-22, 09:14
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Some recent history regarding the current situation.

Biden assures Zelenskiy that NATO membership in Ukraine's hands, Kyiv says - 10/12/21

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2021-12-09/

U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine - 25/2/22

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/u...a-ukraine.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20220226...a-ukraine.html
27-02-22, 09:16
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by life on mars

I get sense of Russian love in hear maybe I'm wrong??

Let's remember Ukraine gave up it's Nuclear weapons and now it's people live in terror and are not allowed to join any organisation because uncle Puchface says so . FFS

You need at least two different viewpoints to make sense of any given situation, preferably more.
27-02-22, 10:47
Dorcus

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

You need at least two different viewpoints to make sense of any given situation, preferably more.

Agree
27-02-22, 10:55
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

It was of course slanted but it's interesting

Russia....and the old Soviet Union has seen its buffer states removed

Now those at the top are clearly paranoid but until recently Russia was never an expansionist power

So one can see given the mentality , Russias beef with the west
27-02-22, 12:47
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Russel Brand on Pootin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=595Esg6Mz0U
27-02-22, 14:58
chris lee

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Russel Brand on Pootin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=595Esg6Mz0U

I love the work Brand is doing now on his youtube, tackles some big issues and always has a interesting take.
27-02-22, 15:02
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris lee

I love the work Brand is doing now on his youtube, tackles some big issues and always has a interesting take.

He's undergone quite a transformation.
27-02-22, 18:37
NYCBlue

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It was of course slanted but it's interesting

Russia....and the old Soviet Union has seen its buffer states removed

Now those at the top are clearly paranoid but until recently Russia was never an expansionist power

So one can see given the mentality , Russias beef with the west

You're referring to post-soviet Russia I assume. They've spent 14 of the 30 years since the Soviet Union collapsed engaged in expansionism. And undoubtedly spent some time before that considering it.
27-02-22, 18:41
blue matt

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It was of course slanted but it's interesting

Russia....and the old Soviet Union has seen its buffer states removed

Now those at the top are clearly paranoid but until recently Russia was never an expansionist power

So one can see given the mentality , Russias beef with the west

Why does Russia need Buffer states though, NATO / The West isn't going to invade
27-02-22, 20:26
Divine Wright

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue matt

Why does Russia need Buffer states though, NATO / The West isn't going to invade

The point he made regarding US/Mexico border is pretty compelling.

The US would freak the fck out if a China/Russia coalition set up camp on their border.

It does beg the question why Nato doesn't make some exemptions with regard whom they allow to join their club.

Couldn't they just have any bordering countries as "partners" (not including Ukraine) who they would only help out in the event there was an actual invasion by Rusia. I.e. "We won't have military bases in these countries, nor will we put troops on the ground if you keep your side of the bargain and never invade these places."
27-02-22, 20:36
Wash DC Blue

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Just watched this lecture after it was recommended to me.

An eye opener for sure and an incredibly accurate prediction of events from 2015.

https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
27-02-22, 21:51
az city

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

Watch the first 40 minutes . It is eye opening . Scary .... Not quite as cut and dried as we are being led to believe .

Thats my take on it.

Thanks for posting the link. It's always worthwhile hearing differing viewpoints.

I've heard his central thesis before that alienating Russia was a bad move. I've also heard the rebuttal that appeasing a country that is essentially a deeply undemocratic kleptocracy is not a better long-run policy choice. Let's remember Russia has pretty much always been a totalitarian state and has had a sociopath as leader for 22 years. I accept we're operating in the realms of counterfactuals here so we should be careful in drawing quick judgements.

Whatever the reason for what got us here, Ukraine deserves its right to self-determination and freedom from tyranny.
27-02-22, 22:02
Q

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Jimmy the Jock;5279456]Did you watch it?[/QUOTE

Yep. It’s a pretty clear agenda
27-02-22, 22:21
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

The point he made regarding US/Mexico border is pretty compelling.

The US would freak the fck out if a China/Russia coalition set up camp on their border.

It does beg the question why Nato doesn't make some exemptions with regard whom they allow to join their club.

Am I missing something here? The idea that Putin wants a buffer between him and NATO countries seems to fall apart if he absorbs Ukraine into Russia cos then they'll be bordering NATO countries anyway. It seems like a simple point; should I get in touch with Moscow?

If he wants the buffer then he'll want a Russia friendly Ukraine a la Belarus but he's not going about that very well.
28-02-22, 10:10
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

I voraciously take in news from many sources (including the foreign press) and I used to work in a role that involved international relations but whatever way you look at it and regardless of many angles on the subject, it's a case of a dictator of a country (where peaceful protest is not allowed) instigation an invasion a democratic and independent soverign state. I've travelled around Ukraine and couchsurfed in the homes of everyday Ukranians and although there is indeed a bit of an ethno-political split in the country the act of aggression by Russia is indefensible.
28-02-22, 12:33
Organ Morgan.

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Any opinions about these photos - https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...t=0&ajaxserp=0

1, Are they fake?
2, They are real but there's an innocent explanation... Putin and the former leaders of China, USA and Canada weren't attending a Masonic shindig but modelling Primark's 2006 mens dressing gown.
3, Who's the woman, Gordon Brown in drag?
28-02-22, 13:34
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

I have no problem with the idea of Putin being an evil dictator as it seems to be that way, but there is also the juxtaposition of him being associated with the World Economic Forum since 1992, where he was a young global leaders alongside Blair, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau, etc.

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