The Pipelines - Whodunnit?

I can't imagine any small nation having the ability to target pipelines in the middle of an ocean. That's not to say that it's impossible of course, but it's probably unlikely.
With that said, there are 3 obvious candidates.
The Russians themselves, in order to justify a pre-planned nuke attack on Ukraine.
The Chinese, purely because they'd love to cause shit between Russia and the west, get involved, and win a war.
Or Biden, who clearly isn't a man for turning, and would love to destroy the Kremlin.

Whodunnit?

Israel is a country almost as small as Wales and certainly has the capability.

It is so special and powerful that it's bristling with nuclear weapons but no other country seems to care that their arsenal isn't subject to inspections. Indeed, they pretend to be unaware that they possess hundreds of them.

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Originally Posted by Ninja

I can't imagine any small nation having the ability to target pipelines in the middle of an ocean. That's not to say that it's impossible of course, but it's probably unlikely.
With that said, there are 3 obvious candidates.
The Russians themselves, in order to justify a pre-planned nuke attack on Ukraine.
The Chinese, purely because they'd love to cause shit between Russia and the west, get involved, and win a war.
Or Biden, who clearly isn't a man for turning, and would love to destroy the Kremlin.

Whodunnit?

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Can't see what Russia gains from it, so with that and that video from Biden it was probably some naughty little Navy SEALS

The Yanks military budget is only $800Bn a year. Not sure they’ve got the cash for such an operation.

It's an interesting one. Behind the scenes, the two major players will know who is responsible (and I think we can discount the OP's suggestion of China as they have a lot of interest in the war in Ukraine ending as they benefit hugely if the global economy can recover).

Two factors that would seem to count against the US being responsible are:

1. Carrying out such activity within the EEZ's of two other sovereign states (i.e. Sweden and Denmark) and possibly without permission.

2. The risk of retaliatory of action against the network of submarine cables and pipelines across the globe and which we all rely on. A war on those connecions would end in absolute chaos, as would the jamming of GPS systems.

Taking the conflict outside the Ukraine could unleash untold and unpredictable consequences.

By the way, such attacks were unlikely to have been carried out by submarines as they cannot easily pass through those waters without detection (due to the depth of the water in some parts and submarine hydrophones placed on the sea bed by both parties in other parts). These days, such attacks can be carried out remotely. In the case of self-sabotage, the pipelines could have been damaged via internal access too.

The jury is still out and we may never know the real answer.

For all of the possible suspects (mainly Russia or the USA - but maybe rogue state elements or client states) the negatives of this act seem to outweigh the positives.

The gas that has bubbled out of the Baltic is Russian owned. The pipes were not moving any gas (Nordstream 2 never did; Nordstream 1 shut down by the Russians a month ago to put economic counter pressure on Germany and the EU). The sabotage may make the pipes unusable in the future (salt water damage) and so prevent future Russian gas sales to Europe. There is no short term or medium term economic or political benefit to anyone - but as a warning to someone (!) and an escalation of the conflict it could be huge.

If the Russians blew the pipes they are becoming even more irrational and self harming.

If the USA (or Israel or some other state or agency working for them) did it, that is even more worrying and sinister.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

2. The risk of retaliatory of action against the network of submarine cables and pipelines across the globe and which we all rely on. A war on those connections would end in absolute chaos, as would the jamming of GPS systems.

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But (Big B) it would fit in with the great reset/build back better narrative.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

For all of the possible suspects (mainly Russia or the USA - but maybe rogue state elements or client states) the negatives of this act seem to outweigh the positives.

The gas that has bubbled out of the Baltic is Russian owned. The pipes were not moving any gas (Nordstream 2 never did; Nordstream 1 shut down by the Russians a month ago to put economic counter pressure on Germany and the EU). The sabotage may make the pipes unusable in the future (salt water damage) and so prevent future Russian gas sales to Europe. There is no short term or medium term economic or political benefit to anyone - but as a warning to someone (!) and an escalation of the conflict it could be huge.

If the Russians blew the pipes they are becoming even more irrational and self harming.

If the USA (or Israel or some other state or agency working for them) did it, that is even more worrying and sinister.

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If a rogue state was involved I imagine that the Americans and Russians are in discussion about it behind the scenes.
On the other hand, the event took place in the same week as the fake elections in the areas of Ukraine occupied by Russia and soon after the announcement of partial mobilisation, internal criticism of Putin increasing, would-be conscripts fleeing the country, his hints of using nuclear weapons and when the invasion is seemingly coming to relative standstill before winter sets in. Yes, the Americans can be reckless and idiotic but it would be sheer folly to escalate matters outside the Ukraine. On the other hand, Putin is in a very tight corner and it's an all-or-nothing game for him now after clearly failing in his attempt to annex the whole of Ukraine. It's a desperate situation for him all round and before new and ill-trained conscripts, released criminals and a hotch-potch of mercenaries join another wave of cannon fodder as the West ramps up the quality of armaments and intelligence supplied to Ukraine.

By the way, and I'm not suggesting North Korea was involved in any way, I highly recommend the following podcast about what is state-controlled criminality across the board by the country. It involves internet blackmail aimed at Hollywood studios, western targets including hospitals, money laundering, drugs and a lot else. It's fascinating.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/w13xtvg9

Not a clue
Biden threatened to shut it down once putin rolled his tanks into UKers FACT
Victoria Nuland threatnened to get it shut down FACT
but the good old BBC has gone with saint Zelenski and his assertion that it was VLAD
Trump who can die a slow death as a vaccine pusher didn't seem to have half the problems of uncle Joe
other then the internal problems
and the kicker!!!
A new pipeline basically Nato controlled just happened to come online just as the explosions were being recorded
who'd be conspiratorial with this ?

Who needs it shut down the most should be the starting point for a deep dive.

November midterms :sherlock:

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Originally Posted by Clandestine

Not a clue
Biden threatened to shut it down once putin rolled his tanks into UKers FACT
Victoria Nuland threatnened to get it shut down FACT
but the good old BBC has gone with saint Zelenski and his assertion that it was VLAD
Trump who can die a slow death as a vaccine pusher didn't seem to have half the problems of uncle Joe
other then the internal problems
and the kicker!!!
A new pipeline basically Nato controlled just happened to come online just as the explosions were being recorded
who'd be conspiratorial with this ?

Who needs it shut down the most should be the starting point for a deep dive.

November midterms :sherlock:

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Wear and tear?

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Wear and tear?

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Sounds like a punk rock t-shirt.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

It's an interesting one. Behind the scenes, the two major players will know who is responsible (and I think we can discount the OP's suggestion of China as they have a lot of interest in the war in Ukraine ending as they benefit hugely if the global economy can recover).

Two factors that would seem to count against the US being responsible are:

1. Carrying out such activity within the EEZ's of two other sovereign states (i.e. Sweden and Denmark) and possibly without permission.

2. The risk of retaliatory of action against the network of submarine cables and pipelines across the globe and which we all rely on. A war on those connecions would end in absolute chaos, as would the jamming of GPS systems.

Taking the conflict outside the Ukraine could unleash untold and unpredictable consequences.

By the way, such attacks were unlikely to have been carried out by submarines as they cannot easily pass through those waters without detection (due to the depth of the water in some parts and submarine hydrophones placed on the sea bed by both parties in other parts). These days, such attacks can be carried out remotely. In the case of self-sabotage, the pipelines could have been damaged via internal access too.

The jury is still out and we may never know the real answer.

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Funny that you think America cares what Denmark and Sweden think when persueing their goals.

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Originally Posted by HyperboreanCCFC

Funny that you think America cares what Denmark and Sweden think when persueing their goals.

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Weren't they trying to get Sweden into NATO?

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Originally Posted by HyperboreanCCFC

Funny that you think America cares what Denmark and Sweden think when persueing their goals.

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Funny that you seem to be an old poster in a new skin.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Weren't they trying to get Sweden into NATO?

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The other way around more likely

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Funny that you seem to be an old poster in a new skin.

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Nah, I just think America care very little for fair play or the sensibilities of small nordic countries

Probably not the Russians - they'd mess the whole thing up. I'd guess a 3rd party 'proxy' agency working for the U.S.

According to Putin speech a few moments ago "Anglo-Saxons" blew up the Nord Stream pipelines.

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Originally Posted by MOZZER2

According to Putin speech a few moments ago "Anglo-Saxons" blew up the Nord Stream pipelines.

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I think it was probably the Vandals.

From what I've read any number of countries with sophisticated underwater drones could be responsible.

There could be no end to this. Taking out the Langeled gas pipeline from Norway to UK would cause a stir. Cutting enough undersea internet cables would equal pandemonium in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

From what I've read any number of countries with sophisticated underwater drones could be responsible.

There could be no end to this. Taking out the Langeled gas pipeline from Norway to UK would cause a stir. Cutting enough undersea internet cables would equal pandemonium in a hurry.

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Indeed. I stated as much in an earlier post and not just regarding internet cables. Power lines, communication cables and pipelines of all description are all vulnerable to attack - hence my comment that it would be absolute madness for any party to risk retaliatory action.

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

From what I've read any number of countries with sophisticated underwater drones could be responsible.

There could be no end to this. Taking out the Langeled gas pipeline from Norway to UK would cause a stir. Cutting enough undersea internet cables would equal pandemonium in a hurry.

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Isn't pandemonium required for what comes next?

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Isn't pandemonium required for what comes next?

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Aye, Ordo ab Chao. Order out of chaos.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Indeed. I stated as much in an earlier post and not just regarding internet cables. Power lines, communication cables and pipelines of all description are all vulnerable to attack - hence my comment that it would be absolute madness for any party to risk retaliatory action.

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Absolute madness unless they are all in on it, and it's part of the plan.