Yet another Tory Minister with his snout in the trough

https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/stat...vgjZO5JrkbaUQA

I apologise in advance for the Tory whataboutery posts that will follow.

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Originally Posted by ninian opinian

https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/stat...vgjZO5JrkbaUQA

I apologise in advance for the Tory whataboutery posts that will follow.

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Shocked.

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Originally Posted by ninian opinian

https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/stat...vgjZO5JrkbaUQA

I apologise in advance for the Tory whataboutery posts that will follow.

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It's not whataboutery. It's more a case of people pointing out the pious hypocrisy.👍

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's not whataboutery. It's more a case of people pointing out the pious hypocrisy.��

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I’ll be interested to hear your breakdown of a more corrupt non Conservative Government.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's not whataboutery. It's more a case of people pointing out the pious hypocrisy.��

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As if by magic :wave:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I’ll be interested to hear your breakdown of a more corrupt non Conservative Government.

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Probably the one that sent British troops and to die in Iraq alongside thousands of Iraqis based on a lie about weapons of mass destruction for me.

That's not to deny there is corruption within the current UK government because I don't doubt there is.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Probably the one that sent British troops and to die in Iraq alongside thousands of Iraqis based on a lie about weapons of mass destruction for me.

That's not to deny there is corruption within the current UK government because I don't doubt there is.

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That was a wrong decision, not corruption, a decision that those at the top of the Labour, and Conservative, parties thought was justified - they were wrong, but it wasn’t as if they were putting personal profit above national interest like this lot have done time and again.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Probably the one that sent British troops and to die in Iraq alongside thousands of Iraqis based on a lie about weapons of mass destruction for me.

That's not to deny there is corruption within the current UK government because I don't doubt there is.

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Absolute feck up which your lot voted for. Now get back to the topic in question and please stop with the whataboutery.

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Originally Posted by ninian opinian

Absolute feck up which your lot voted for. Now get back to the topic in question and please stop with the whataboutery.

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Yeah the problem here is though that my point is entirely that your (and a handful of others) focus is NOT on standards in politics etc but on creating political points. The best way to evidence this is is cite the numerous examples of misdemeanors and poor behaviour in others.

In much the same way (and I am NOT accusing you of doing something comparable) that responding to someone who claimed to be reporting on crime but only ever talked about crimes committed by black people could only really be argued against by pointing out all the things they don't mention and to ask why.

I just don't get your motivation. It's clearly party political but don't you tire of it? If you are on a crusade to highlight bad behaviour in politicians (and all power to you on that!) should you not, even once report on issues that occur in any party other than the Conservatives?

Certainly it would make some of you look more like people who genuinely want to raise standards and less like people who want to use CCMB as a vehicle for party politics

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Yeah the problem here is though that my point is entirely that your (and a handful of others) focus is NOT on standards in politics etc but on creating political points. The best way to evidence this is is cite the numerous examples of misdemeanors and poor behaviour in others.

In much the same way (and I am NOT accusing you of doing something comparable) that responding to someone who claimed to be reporting on crime but only ever talked about crimes committed by black people could only really be argued against by pointing out all the things they don't mention and to ask why.

I just don't get your motivation. It's clearly party political but don't you tire of it? If you are on a crusade to highlight bad behaviour in politicians (and all power to you on that!) should you not, even once report on issues that occur in any party other than the Conservatives?

Certainly it would make some of you look more like people who genuinely want to raise standards and less like people who want to use CCMB as a vehicle for party politics

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James: I don't get involved in the Punch and Judy politics on here and have never voted Labour nor Conservative. However, I cannot remember in all my years such corruption in government. You do come over as an apologist for the current emcumbents in government regardless of your wish to project even-mindedness.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

James: I don't get involved in the Punch and Judy politics on here and have never voted Labour nor Conservative. However, I cannot remember in all my years such corruption in government. You do come over as an apologist for the current emcumbents in government regardless of your wish to project even-mindedness.

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I don't know whether the current UK govt is more or less corrupt than others. Power does corrupt and Covid provided fertile ground for things too so you may well be right.

But like I said, my point is that there are examples everywhere and you don't sense the ambition of these countless threads is the honourable discussion of poor MP behaviour but more an opportunity for the same people to say the same things about a party they don't like.

And if we ignore these things from other parties isn't that being an apologist.

I hope any politician that has done something wrong has the book thrown at them, but reporting anyone being investigated as being guilty and in turn implying an entire party as being guilty, whilst not holding other parties to the same standard is disingenuous in my opinion.

And I've resisted whataboutery here but people are more than capable of using Google news and typing 'Labour MP' or 'MP investigated' or 'MP jailed' to see for themselves that these things exist across a spectrum and it's fair to point that out when it seems the point of these threads is to imply otherwise.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I don't know whether the current UK govt is more or less corrupt than others. Power does corrupt and Covid provided fertile ground for things too so you may well be right.

But like I said, my point is that there are examples everywhere and you don't sense the ambition of these countless threads is the honourable discussion of poor MP behaviour but more an opportunity for the same people to say the same things about a party they don't like.

And if we ignore these things from other parties isn't that being an apologist.

I hope any politician that has done something wrong has the book thrown at them, but reporting anyone being investigated as being guilty and in turn implying an entire party as being guilty, whilst not holding other parties to the same standard is disingenuous in my opinion.

And I've resisted whataboutery here but people are more than capable of using Google news and typing 'Labour MP' or 'MP investigated' or 'MP jailed' to see for themselves that these things exist across a spectrum and it's fair to point that out when it seems the point of these threads is to imply otherwise.

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A postery that resists whataboutery then asks you to google whataboutery has to be the biggest whataboutery that everey there waserey

Just my tuppenceworth but I think that the reason there are SO many posts about bad behaviour on the Tory benches is purely that they give SO many opportunities. It's hard to go a day without hearing of more corruption in government.
While they might be normalising it, a lot of what we've seen in the last couple of years is unheard of in my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

A postery that resists whataboutery then asks you to google whataboutery has to be the biggest whataboutery that everey there waserey

Just my tuppenceworth but I think that the reason there are SO many posts about bad behaviour on the Tory benches is purely that they give SO many opportunities. It's hard to go a day without hearing of more corruption in government.
While they might be normalising it, a lot of what we've seen in the last couple of years is unheard of in my lifetime.

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Like I said, it's difficult to highlight my point without pointing out that poor MP behaviour is more widespread than some suggest, without referencing it. Bit of a catch 22 there!

Dunno how old you are, but theres a decent list of various scandals here. I know Blair's government were dogged by it throughout and it's important they are exposed of course, but if used to present some parties as inherently good and others as inherently bad (which I suspect is people's motivation here) then I'm not sure how useful it all is, especially when in some cases it's allegations and not fact at all and everyone has a right to explain themselves before the witchunt starts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

I dunno, all just seems repetitive to me, but you're right, the current govt aren't shy of creating headlines.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Like I said, it's difficult to highlight my point without pointing out that poor MP behaviour is more widespread than some suggest, without referencing it. Bit of a catch 22 there!

Dunno how old you are, but theres a decent list of various scandals here. I know Blair's government were dogged by it throughout and it's important they are exposed of course, but if used to present some parties as inherently good and others as inherently bad (which I suspect is people's motivation here) then I'm not sure how useful it all is, especially when in some cases it's allegations and not fact at all and everyone has a right to explain themselves before the witchunt starts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

I dunno, all just seems repetitive to me, but you're right, the current govt aren't shy of creating headlines.

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whataboutawikipediary.

For once I totally and utterly agree with you. It's incredibly repetitive, but it's what we're stuck with at present, hence why so many people are complaining about it.

I hope the fingering of the tory scum continues day in day out until the next election and the public are intelligent enough to vote the filth out

If they don't then we may as well all drink kool aid

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Like I said, it's difficult to highlight my point without pointing out that poor MP behaviour is more widespread than some suggest, without referencing it. Bit of a catch 22 there!

Dunno how old you are, but theres a decent list of various scandals here. I know Blair's government were dogged by it throughout and it's important they are exposed of course, but if used to present some parties as inherently good and others as inherently bad (which I suspect is people's motivation here) then I'm not sure how useful it all is, especially when in some cases it's allegations and not fact at all and everyone has a right to explain themselves before the witchunt starts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

I dunno, all just seems repetitive to me, but you're right, the current govt aren't shy of creating headlines.

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Jimbo, the problem with your argument is I believe the OP was pointing out the depth and depravity of the current Tory scumbags with yet another example of their unceasing corruption.

If you argued that this was or wasn't extensive within the Tory cult that's on point. Going about your normal business of engaging in deflection by suggesting everyone does it is off topic by a long way and classic whataboutery.

If asked the question "are the Tories corrupt?" Your discussion should be about just that not whether the Labour/Liberal Party is too.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's not whataboutery. It's more a case of people pointing out the pious hypocrisy.��

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ok, to move the discussion along, lets all agree that what's gone on before is heinous. What are you thoughts on the subject matter being discussed?

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Originally Posted by HiVis

ok, to move the discussion along, lets all agree that what's gone on before is heinous. What are you thoughts on the subject matter being discussed?

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I would say that none of us know the details. That Pippa Crerer is right that it 'raises questions' that it should be investigated and if something wrong had occured he should face the penalty including criminal investigation if appropriate.

I also know that 'raising questions' doesn't mean he's guilty, it doesn't mean 'the govt is corrupt' it doesn't mean it's 'anothrer Tory with his snout in the trough' etc etc.

Due process matters in any liberal democracy. Setting fire to the stake to burn him based on a story in a newspaper is not really the way to go, in my opinion.

Additionally, whilst emphasising that if he's done anything wrong he must face the consequences, I'd add that the looser procurement rules surrounding covid were necessary to aquire PPE and that the govt were under enormous pressure from all sides to relax the normal process, and no doubt some benefitted from that

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

James: I don't get involved in the Punch and Judy politics on here and have never voted Labour nor Conservative. However, I cannot remember in all my years such corruption in government. You do come over as an apologist for the current emcumbents in government regardless of your wish to project even-mindedness.

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It's incumbent on us all to know how to spell

:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

That was a wrong decision, not corruption, a decision that those at the top of the Labour, and Conservative, parties thought was justified - they were wrong, but it wasn’t as if they were putting personal profit above national interest like this lot have done time and again.

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no. That was definitely corruption. Blair knew he was lying to parliament.

Still not in this shower's league though. There's no longer a facade of pretending to stick to the rules now, it is blatant and open. There's a total disregard for us Plebeians.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

ok, to move the discussion along, lets all agree that what's gone on before is heinous. What are you thoughts on the subject matter being discussed?

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You are doing it again , you can't help yourself from always saying yeah but .....

It's embarrassing

Loads of people point it out to you

We can't all be lefty types

Sort yourself out

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

You are doing it again , you can't help yourself from always saying yeah but .....

It's embarrassing

Loads of people point it out to you

We can't all be lefty types

Sort yourself out

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Good grief. That's not a "yeah but...". Its an attempt to get James to answer the question that was asked rather than engage in the usual whataboutery.