Grenfell Tower - 10 years (at least) for justice!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-to-face-trial

The bereaved and survivors of Grenfell Tower must wait until at least 2027 – a decade after the blaze that killed 72 people – before those suspected of being responsible for the disaster could face criminal trials, it has emerged.

Families described the news as “shocking” and called the wait for charges for people to be held accountable for their crimes “unbearable”.

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It amounts to a more than four-year delay on an earlier expected timetable and comes because the police say they must take into account the final report of the public inquiry, which could take 18 months.

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A statement from Grenfell United, a group of bereaved and survivors, said: “10 years until we see justice”. It continued: “10 years until we see prosecutions. 10 years until those responsible for the murders of 72 people are held to account for their crimes. This should be shocking for everyone, but for us, we live our lives on hold while those responsible walk free.”

The public inquiry has yet to set a date for publication but it will be after the seventh anniversary of the fire, which is next month.

The police also revealed that 58 individuals and 19 companies and organisations are suspects, with potential charges now including misconduct in public office, indicating that local and national government politicians and officials could face trial.

Detectives declined to name individual suspects but said other possible crimes also include corporate manslaughter, gross negligence manslaughter, fraud and perverting the course of justice.

They also confirmed explicitly that they believe that the deaths caused by the fire were the result of criminal acts.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-to-face-trial

The bereaved and survivors of Grenfell Tower must wait until at least 2027 – a decade after the blaze that killed 72 people – before those suspected of being responsible for the disaster could face criminal trials, it has emerged.

Families described the news as “shocking” and called the wait for charges for people to be held accountable for their crimes “unbearable”.

-

It amounts to a more than four-year delay on an earlier expected timetable and comes because the police say they must take into account the final report of the public inquiry, which could take 18 months.

-

A statement from Grenfell United, a group of bereaved and survivors, said: “10 years until we see justice”. It continued: “10 years until we see prosecutions. 10 years until those responsible for the murders of 72 people are held to account for their crimes. This should be shocking for everyone, but for us, we live our lives on hold while those responsible walk free.”

The public inquiry has yet to set a date for publication but it will be after the seventh anniversary of the fire, which is next month.

The police also revealed that 58 individuals and 19 companies and organisations are suspects, with potential charges now including misconduct in public office, indicating that local and national government politicians and officials could face trial.

Detectives declined to name individual suspects but said other possible crimes also include corporate manslaughter, gross negligence manslaughter, fraud and perverting the course of justice.

They also confirmed explicitly that they believe that the deaths caused by the fire were the result of criminal acts.

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Seems to be the British way doesn’t it - based on precedents like Hillsborough, the Post Office and infected blood scandals, they’ve got about another twenty year wait to come.

Ain’t nothing in the World like British Justice! May be my age but ever since Maggie it’s all gone to pot.

The Tories said they were onto this , what a sham

Poor people

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Seems to be the British way doesn’t it - based on precedents like Hillsborough, the Post Office and infected blood scandals, they’ve got about another twenty year wait to come.

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But if it was a PPE contract it would be fast laned all the way into awaiting rich peoples pockets 👍

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-grenfell-fire

No longer newsworthy but the scandal keeps on and on....


Hundreds of thousands of disabled residents in high-rise buildings are at risk without evacuation plans, firefighters have warned, seven years on from the Grenfell Tower fire.

The Fire Brigades’ Union (FBU) and the charity Disability Rights UK said the government’s failure to implement evacuation plans for vulnerable residents, one of the main recommendations from the first-phase report of the Grenfell Tower inquiry, meant “disabled people will continue to face unnecessary and avoidable danger and/or death”.

Friday marks the seventh anniversary of the Grenfell Tower fire, when 72 people died after a blaze engulfed the block of flats in west London. About 40% of the building’s disabled or vulnerable residents died.

The general secretary of the FBU, Matt Wrack, told the Guardian: “To this day, hundreds of thousands of vulnerable high-rise residents are being left with no evacuation plan in the event of a fire because the Home Office is failing to act.

“It is the duty of those who own and manage tower blocks to ensure their tenants can evacuate in an emergency. The Grenfell Tower fire was a crime caused by negligence, deregulation and privatisation. Instead of lessons being learned, profits are being prioritised over human life once again.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...on-anniversary

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sborough-covid

Disappointing that no thread has been started about the findings of the Official Report into the Grenfell tragedy, but maybe not surprising given the behaviour of many MPs on Wednesday who turned up for the schoolyard antics of PMQs and then cleared off whe the PM and other party leaders gave their reaction to the report.

https://x.com/BeckettUnite/status/1831399911616868463

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-grenfell-fire

No longer newsworthy but the scandal keeps on and on....


Hundreds of thousands of disabled residents in high-rise buildings are at risk without evacuation plans, firefighters have warned, seven years on from the Grenfell Tower fire.

The Fire Brigades’ Union (FBU) and the charity Disability Rights UK said the government’s failure to implement evacuation plans for vulnerable residents, one of the main recommendations from the first-phase report of the Grenfell Tower inquiry, meant “disabled people will continue to face unnecessary and avoidable danger and/or death”.

Friday marks the seventh anniversary of the Grenfell Tower fire, when 72 people died after a blaze engulfed the block of flats in west London. About 40% of the building’s disabled or vulnerable residents died.

The general secretary of the FBU, Matt Wrack, told the Guardian: “To this day, hundreds of thousands of vulnerable high-rise residents are being left with no evacuation plan in the event of a fire because the Home Office is failing to act.

“It is the duty of those who own and manage tower blocks to ensure their tenants can evacuate in an emergency. The Grenfell Tower fire was a crime caused by negligence, deregulation and privatisation. Instead of lessons being learned, profits are being prioritised over human life once again.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...on-anniversary

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A bit rich the FBU shouting from the rooftops - the London fire Brigade were far from blameless..

Looks like another 3 years at least before any criminal prosecutions are brought.

In the meantime half of high rise residential blocks in the UK are still waiting for essential fire safety work to be done.

It is like Lakanal again x10.

At least we now have official confirmation that the ‘bonfire of red tape’ was a major cause of the ‘wholly avoidable’ disaster.

Somehow I doubt Eric Pickles will end up in the dock. But he should - as should others from both Labour and Tory governments of the past 35 years.

Keir Starmar again has been poor over this. His statement about Grenfell Tower was a bit odd as it seemed to link race to the fire :shrug:

From what I read it was the fault of the builders, local council and Goverment officials. All they were interested in was profit margins and doing the job as cheap as possible. When a problem with the cladding was identified, they pulled their usual trick and kept quite because of the cost to correct the issue.

This wasn't confined to Grenfell Tower buildings all over the UK had the same cladding. Why KS thought this was some kind of far right conspericy against people of colour is baffling. People from all forms of life have been affected by this and if he really cared he would get one of his fast track courts up and running and prosecute those responsible.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Looks like another 3 years at least before any criminal prosecutions are brought.

In the meantime half of high rise residential blocks in the UK are still waiting for essential fire safety work to be done.

It is like Lakanal again x10.

At least we now have official confirmation that the ‘bonfire of red tape’ was a major cause of the ‘wholly avoidable’ disaster.

Somehow I doubt Eric Pickles will end up in the dock. But he should - as should others from both Labour and Tory governments of the past 35 years.

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I suspect there won’t be any prosecutions of note sadly

I wonder if a lot of the problem is these demands for public enquiries every time something happens. Government and 'victims groups' seem to love them, but what's the bloody point when it delays a legal case being able to happen.

Surely the best bet would be to let the justice system do it's thing first, then have an enquiry of experts convened afterwards to advise on future changes.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems ridiculous

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...minister-warns

Wajid Khan, a Labour peer and housing minister, said on Friday that remediation work had not started at approximately 50% of properties being monitored for their unsafe cladding.

He told the House of Lords there is a need to “go further, faster” on 2,415 residential buildings over 11 metres in height in England. Figures show that of 4,834 buildings on the register 983 have started remediation, making 3,398 where the work to make the buildings safe is not yet done. About 30%, or 1,436, have completed remediation.

Lord Khan made the remarks in a debate about the Grenfell Tower inquiry report, which he said focused on fire safety but also “exposed wider failures in practice and culture”.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

A bit rich the FBU shouting from the rooftops - the London fire Brigade were far from blameless..

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I agree the LFB had some responsibility but it was the cladding, that wasn’t tested in a fire situation, that was the mayor cause of the fire. The biggest criticism of the LFB is they didn’t change the stay put policy quickly enough where the building wasn’t reacting as they would expect.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-angela-rayner

Dangerous cladding on all high-rise buildings in government-funded schemes in England will be fixed by the end of 2029, Angela Rayner has pledged.

Criticising the pace of remediation, more than seven years after the Grenfell Tower fire killed 72 people, the deputy prime minister announced an acceleration plan on Monday for buildings of 18 metres and over, which will include severe penalties for freeholders who fail to act.

She also said that by the end of 2029, every building of 11 metres and over with unsafe cladding would either have been fixed or have a completion date for remedial work, otherwise landlords would face hefty fines.

Ministers claimed it was the first time a target date had been set to make buildings safe. But the End Our Cladding Scandal campaign coalition said it was not the “meaningful change” it was hoping for, which the government had pledged in opposition, and just added more layers of bureaucracy.

Rayner said: “More than seven years on from the Grenfell tragedy, thousands of people have been left living in homes across this country with dangerous cladding. The pace of remediation has been far too slow for far too long. We are taking decisive action to right this wrong and make homes safe.


The more I read around this latest announcement the more pitiful it seems.

Rayner is (rightly) complaining about the pathetic record of the former government in its' non-response to Grenfell, just as they were pathetic in their non-response to the Lakenal House fire and by cutting local and national inspection and enforcement services actually contributed to the Grenfell disaster.

But after 7 years of failure her target is remedial works or a target date for remedial works by 2029 - another 5 years off! And as many of the campaigners have said, the practical change is just another layer of bureaucracy and kicking the can down the road.

behailu kebede was the cause of the fire, should he be draged to tyburn ? no , it was an accident, accidents happen

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Originally Posted by + the native hipster

behailu kebede was the cause of the fire, should he be draged to tyburn ? no , it was an accident, accidents happen

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The cladding was choice by the developers.

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Originally Posted by + the native hipster

behailu kebede was the cause of the fire, should he be draged to tyburn ? no , it was an accident, accidents happen

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A faulty fridge may have been the source of the fire.

The landlord, government, project managers, cladding and insulation suppliers were the cause of over 70 avoidable deaths and lasting trauma for thousands.

And hundreds of residential blocks have still not been made safe after more than 7 years. The new government is giving another 5 years to landlords just to set a date for the work.

That is disgraceful - as is your post.

It's an extremely frustrating situation, overwhelmingly so for tenants in housing with this cladding of course (of which I know two people). Not only do they live in the knowledge that however unlikely a repeat event is, it is possible and the cladding is dangerous, the stress of insurance, inability to sell, service charges and the like takes a very heavy toll.

It's not as easy as it should be to resolve. There's disputes over who allowed it and if anyone did anything wrong in putting it up..and if they didn't, then who pays for it? If it's the state then we let the developers off the hook. If it's the developers then they quite possibly go bust (and thus can't do it anyway).

The losers are the people living there.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

A faulty fridge may have been the source of the fire.

The landlord, government, project managers, cladding and insulation suppliers were the cause of over 70 avoidable deaths and lasting trauma for thousands.

And hundreds of residential blocks have still not been made safe after more than 7 years. The new government is giving another 5 years to landlords just to set a date for the work.

That is disgraceful - as is your post.

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avoidable deaths , thats an interesting phrase

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Originally Posted by + the native hipster

avoidable deaths , thats an interesting phrase

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Do you have a problem with it?

When Grenfell Tower was built it had fire stopping at landing doors and each flat was intended and able to contain a fire for more than sufficient time for the Fire Service to control and extinguish it without risk to neighbouring flats. That is the basis for the 'Stay Put' policy followed by the London Fire Brigade and most Fire Services around the country.

By early 2017 fire stopping in the block had been compromised by decades of poorly planned/supervised works that had punched holes through the internal walls, combined with a lack of landing door closers, defective doors and inadequate signage. But that was nothing compared to the decision to wrap the entire block in a cladding and insulating system that turned it into a death trap that spread fire instead of contained it.

If the cladding had not been fitted (for reasons of insulation and aesthetics) most if not all the lives lost would have been saved. That means to me that the deaths were avoidable. An there are people and organisations (public and private) that are culpable.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Do you have a problem with it?

When Grenfell Tower was built it had fire stopping at landing doors and each flat was intended and able to contain a fire for more than sufficient time for the Fire Service to control and extinguish it without risk to neighbouring flats. That is the basis for the 'Stay Put' policy followed by the London Fire Brigade and most Fire Services around the country.

By early 2017 fire stopping in the block had been compromised by decades of poorly planned/supervised works that had punched holes through the internal walls, combined with a lack of landing door closers, defective doors and inadequate signage. But that was nothing compared to the decision to wrap the entire block in a cladding and insulating system that turned it into a death trap that spread fire instead of contained it.

If the cladding had not been fitted (for reasons of insulation and aesthetics) most if not all the lives lost would have been saved. That means to me that the deaths were avoidable. An there are people and organisations (public and private) that are culpable.

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the bloke that sold the dodgy fridge is directly culpable , no dodgy fridge , no fire

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Originally Posted by + the native hipster

the bloke that sold the dodgy fridge is directly culpable , no dodgy fridge , no fire

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Bizarre.

So the person who sold Gavrilo Princep a revolver was responsible for 16 million deaths in World War 1.

Glad you cleared that up!