Ownership also comes with moral duty.

Many of us have followed City for decades. In my case since the late 60's and I have many many memories of our beloved club.

Yes there have been good times and bad times but even in the bad times you felt there was a glue that kept it all together and enough strength to build it back.

Following City, painful as it might be, is also important to a lot of people, me included and now I have got my grandchildren interested in the Bluebirds despite them living around here. I took them to the Norwich game as their first experience and their Christmas stockings will have a lot of Cardiff shirts etc.

Reading all the comments on the board and on social media is of concern. Our owner is from Malaysia and has absolutely no belonging to Cardiff, Wales or whatever. It so happens he is a very wealthy person who chose to buy us as his plaything and arguably as a possible means to make a $. What I find disheartening is that clearly the guy has lost interest, doesn't engage with the club in the way that would endear him to fans and is also shirking in any sense of moral duty to look after the club in crisis times.

His apparent apathy now is destroying something we all feel for and frankly disgusting. Football in the UK got greedy in bringing in foreign owners and investors and it is very frustrating to feel powerless to effect change.

I don't know what we can do? We can take some comfort in knowing we're all on the same page as fans. Hearing of Steve Borley's upset last night was in itself an upset as he's been a solid part of the structure for a long time.

It's horrible seeing something you feel for being destroyed by absolute incompetence and makes me feel very sad.

Sorry but I had to get this off my chest.

TIB.:cry:

Sadly there’s nothing new here, he’s been an incompetent owner since day 1. He could be the owner for decades and still “not get it”. Yes he’s pumped millions in, no one can deny that but the decision making through ignorance has been appalling, resulting in wasting a high percentage of those millions.

My position hasn’t changed since the day he bought the club. He has no understanding, end of.

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Sadly there’s nothing new here, he’s been an incompetent owner since day 1. He could be the owner for decades and still “not get it”. Yes he’s pumped millions in, no one can deny that but the decision making through ignorance has been appalling, resulting in wasting a high percentage of those millions.

My position hasn’t changed since the day he bought the club. He has no understanding, end of.

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How could you possibly know from the very first day he took over, what kind of owner he would turn out to be?

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

How could you possibly know from the very first day he took over, what kind of owner he would turn out to be?

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In the early days of his ownership very little was known about Vincent Tan, his level of football knowledge or his motivations.

Things became much clearer in May 2012, though.

I have reiterated this many times previously. Tan has been both unlucky and badly advised. Of course he has made mistakes but I don't see Tan as the culprit.

Of course it may come out after he moves on that he has had too much control and then i'll put my hands up.

But he's been advised on the managers, who in turn look like they have brought in the wrong players.

He's backed pretty much every manager.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I have reiterated this many times previously. Tan has been both unlucky and badly advised. Of course he has made mistakes but I don't see Tan as the culprit.

Of course it may come out after he moves on that he has had too much control and then i'll put my hands up.

But he's been advised on the managers, who in turn look like they have brought in the wrong players.

He's backed pretty much every manager.

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He's the man in charge.

He's appointed twice before from within both who were useless. Now in a relegation battle in desperate need of new players with a window approaching He's done it again and this time the person in charge looks more out of his depth than anyone.

I can get those still backing him for financially keeping us going but not blaming him for the playing and coaching shambles is incredible.

We desperately need someone from somewhere to want to buy this club and have the funds to do so. Otherwise the fall is going to go lower than L1.

I really dont see anyone coming in though.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I have reiterated this many times previously. Tan has been both unlucky and badly advised. Of course he has made mistakes but I don't see Tan as the culprit.

Of course it may come out after he moves on that he has had too much control and then i'll put my hands up.

But he's been advised on the managers, who in turn look like they have brought in the wrong players.

He's backed pretty much every manager.

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I agree to the extent that it's not as straightforward as saying Tan is uselss full stop. Especially in his early days, enough money was spent to result in City becoming a Brighton, Brentford, Palace type club if it had been spent well. Tan's money has kept us going in latter years, while, although he's not delivered on his promise to have a debt free club, his debt to equity conversions have resulted in an easing of financial burdens.

However, two things happened over ten years ago that gave us the warning that what he have now was a strong possibility if Tan stayed. First, there was the rebrand. Now, I was neutral about that at first and was too influenced by the promise of debts being written off etc. A few months of us playing in red persuaded me that my original viewpoint was wrong, but there were still many who were prepared to keep us in red - were there any who supported it completely like Tan did all the way through the two and a half seasons where we played in red?

The second matter which had a profound effect on how we've been run was Tan's feeling of betrayal with Malky Mackay and Iain Moody which had its roots in the purchase of Andreas Cornelius. Tan certainly had a point that we paid far too much for Cornelius at that stage of his career, but in the years following that transfer we've pissed away millions of pounds ds on equally poor signings who did not have Cornelius' potential for development.

A sensible Director of Football whose views were respected by the Board would have, hopefully, been able to nip in the bud, the awful 2019 transfer window where Neil Warnock was allowed to indulge himself with the parachute money whoch should have been the foundation on which a more realistic bid for a return to Premier League football could be based.

Instead, Tan has decided that he doesn't trust the concept of a Director of Football and the result is he's lost what most of us would regard as a fortune. Tan isn't the first footballer club owner who doesn't understand thew game, but most of them realise that and make appointments which help to compensate for that, Tan doesn't - for a decade and ,more he's stood by a Chairman and CEO who've made getting it wrong into an art form.

Worst of all though, Tan shows no sign of learning from his mistakes. In fact, things are getting worse under him - i there may be those who are ambivalent about a Director of Footballl, but is there anyone else with an affinity for City who agrees with him that we're better off without one?

Despite the efforts of some on here recently to defend Tan's time in charge, it's an in escapable fact, that we're now worse off than we were when he took over. Clearly, we've got a worse team and the fact that the Academy is now producing good enough youngsters is wasted because of years long distrust of them by the people picking the team. Crowds are now lower than they were pre Tan and, although the club's away support deserves a medal, the growing evidence seems to be that, finally, the home support has had enough after four and a half seasons of, the very occasional exception apart, having dross served up at home.

The saddest thing of all is to imagine what could have been if the Tan money had been used sensibly with knowledgable staff advising him best to proceed. I find it impossible not to contrast what's happened in North Wales where enthusiastic foreign owners have gone out of their way to create connections with the locals by extending their influence beyond football matters - can you imagine the powers that be at Wrexham issuing a response to what was, when you consider what they've had to put up with, a reasonable request for more information by supporters' representatives?

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I have reiterated this many times previously. Tan has been both unlucky and badly advised. Of course he has made mistakes but I don't see Tan as the culprit.

Of course it may come out after he moves on that he has had too much control and then i'll put my hands up.

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You genuinely believe we'll have to wait until he's gone to discover he's had too much control?

Sheesh...

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I have reiterated this many times previously. Tan has been both unlucky and badly advised. Of course he has made mistakes but I don't see Tan as the culprit.

Of course it may come out after he moves on that he has had too much control and then i'll put my hands up.

But he's been advised on the managers, who in turn look like they have brought in the wrong players.

He's backed pretty much every manager.

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I disagree, I think he's a lunatic, an arrogant, petulant man driven by power and control.

Ever since the night of _that_ West Ham game, Cardiff City changed for ever.

Those who sat in the boardroom had to make one decision: take the money or work out how the club could survive without it.

Money talks loudly when you’re feeling the breathe of HMRC on your neck.

The very nature of the demands set out by Tan should have been evidence enough that this is not the sort of owner the club needed - nor indeed one they would ever have any real influence over.

Tan clearly got bored when he was no longer dining with Premier league owners, and when he realised the TV coverage was ridiculing him rather than honouring him.

I have no idea why he continues to piss away a fortune, rather than shut up shop and leave. Perhaps a drop to L1 may make him reconsider.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I agree to the extent that it's not as straightforward as saying Tan is uselss full stop. Especially in his early days, enough money was spent to result in City becoming a Brighton, Brentford, Palace type club if it had been spent well. Tan's money has kept us going in latter years, while, although he's not delivered on his promise to have a debt free club, his debt to equity conversions have resulted in an easing of financial burdens.

However, two things happened over ten years ago that gave us the warning that what he have now was a strong possibility if Tan stayed. First, there was the rebrand. Now, I was neutral about that at first and was too influenced by the promise of debts being written off etc. A few months of us playing in red persuaded me that my original viewpoint was wrong, but there were still many who were prepared to keep us in red - were there any who supported it completely like Tan did all the way through the two and a half seasons where we played in red?

The second matter which had a profound effect on how we've been run was Tan's feeling of betrayal with Malky Mackay and Iain Moody which had its roots in the purchase of Andreas Cornelius. Tan certainly had a point that we paid far too much for Cornelius at that stage of his career, but in the years following that transfer we've pissed away millions of pounds ds on equally poor signings who did not have Cornelius' potential for development.

A sensible Director of Football whose views were respected by the Board would have, hopefully, been able to nip in the bud, the awful 2019 transfer window where Neil Warnock was allowed to indulge himself with the parachute money whoch should have been the foundation on which a more realistic bid for a return to Premier League football could be based.

Instead, Tan has decided that he doesn't trust the concept of a Director of Football and the result is he's lost what most of us would regard as a fortune. Tan isn't the first footballer club owner who doesn't understand thew game, but most of them realise that and make appointments which help to compensate for that, Tan doesn't - for a decade and ,more he's stood by a Chairman and CEO who've made getting it wrong into an art form.

Worst of all though, Tan shows no sign of learning from his mistakes. In fact, things are getting worse under him - i there may be those who are ambivalent about a Director of Footballl, but is there anyone else with an affinity for City who agrees with him that we're better off without one?

Despite the efforts of some on here recently to defend Tan's time in charge, it's an in escapable fact, that we're now worse off than we were when he took over. Clearly, we've got a worse team and the fact that the Academy is now producing good enough youngsters is wasted because of years long distrust of them by the people picking the team. Crowds are now lower than they were pre Tan and, although the club's away support deserves a medal, the growing evidence seems to be that, finally, the home support has had enough after four and a half seasons of, the very occasional exception apart, having dross served up at home.

The saddest thing of all is to imagine what could have been if the Tan money had been used sensibly with knowledgable staff advising him best to proceed. I find it impossible not to contrast what's happened in North Wales where enthusiastic foreign owners have gone out of their way to create connections with the locals by extending their influence beyond football matters - can you imagine the powers that be at Wrexham issuing a response to what was, when you consider what they've had to put up with, a reasonable request for more information by supporters' representatives?

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some interesting points there

Wrexham appointed a football director in December 2023 - Shaun Harvey who has held appointments at Leeds and Bradford now an American owned club

Birmingham City have a director of football - Jeffrey Vatere whose background includes working with Real Madrid and Newcastle now an American owned club

Shawn Harvey has gone on record saying that most English league clubs want a presence in North America

I was shouting from the rooftops the last time we went to the prem was to go with either a Technical Director or Football Director to move us forward . It was pointless keeping Warnock going into the prem league looking back i think i was proved right

I notice some noise in the press this week and on X of course Elon Musk name has been mentioned in taking over a lower league club in the UK . For some bizarre reason Cheltenham Town name have been thrown into the mix

obviously i,m taking this with a pinch of salt but i notice most fans from lower league clubs are hashtagging him this week to take over there club Cardiff City included !

On a serious note Tan made a huge error not going forward with a football director when we went up to the prem .all about globalisation these days

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Originally Posted by Crisp White Lines

The very nature of the demands set out by Tan should have been evidence enough that this is not the sort of owner the club needed - nor indeed one they would ever have any real influence over.

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During a one-to-one meeting in the CCS boardroom in mid-2012, a former Cardiff City CEO told me Vincent Tan was comfortably the most difficult person he'd ever worked with. He also admitted the board members didn't have a clue what benefits, if any, the rebrand was supposed to bring. They were as much in the dark as the average supporter and any public claims to the contrary were just smoke and mirrors.

"It's simple, really," he told me. "What Vincent wants, Vincent gets."

The shit appointments they keep making and repeat mistakes are not because we haven't got a Director of Football.

FFS 95% of fans can see the absolute feck up these clowns make.

Or is it Tan doesn't give a feck and just says we have to manage with what we've got

We aren't where we are because of a lack of a DOF. But of complete negligence.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I have reiterated this many times previously. Tan has been both unlucky and badly advised. Of course he has made mistakes but I don't see Tan as the culprit.

Of course it may come out after he moves on that he has had too much control and then i'll put my hands up.

But he's been advised on the managers, who in turn look like they have brought in the wrong players.

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Out of interest, who do you think brought in the current Chairman and CEO? And who do you think constructed the current CCFC board?

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

How could you possibly know from the very first day he took over, what kind of owner he would turn out to be?

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Where did I say I knew? I said he’s been incompetent, wasted millions, doesn’t get it and has no understanding, I stand by that.

so as i said originally, no sense of moral duty whatsoever and couldn't give a sh1t about the fans and our heritage.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I have reiterated this many times previously. Tan has been both unlucky and badly advised. Of course he has made mistakes but I don't see Tan as the culprit.

Of course it may come out after he moves on that he has had too much control and then i'll put my hands up.

But he's been advised on the managers, who in turn look like they have brought in the wrong players.

He's backed pretty much every manager.

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When was our last decent manager? Bar an old NW I don’t think we’ve had one

It's difficult to respond to this post without summoning up the ghosts of seasons past, ie Hammam and Ridsdale. Whatever their failings and successes as a supporter you always felt there was something happening, someone in the building, and despite the duplicity of Hammam and the scheming of Ridsdale the club was generally viewed in a positive light not just with supporters but in the media also. Aside from the promotion/PL seasons it's felt as though the club is just an outpost, remotely managed. Take the murals. Nice touch, a video of them being done. Nice. The club likes and understands the fans, they'll love this. But to me it's just virtue signalling. As a supporter I'd much rather hear from Dalman or Choo - or even Tan, but that's not going to happen. No activity, no news, no 'buzz'. Yes a D of F would be nice, but a £30m turnover football club with virtually nobody of significance involved in the day-to-day running of it present on a regular basis is leading to apathy, alienation and decay..

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

'a D of F would be nice, l

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If a DOF was the holy grail every club would have one

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Out of interest, who do you think brought in the current Chairman and CEO? And who do you think constructed the current CCFC board?

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Selecting a bad manager isn’t limited to us. The average tenure of a championship manager is pathetic.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

If a DOF was the holy grail every club would have one

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They might not all be called Director of Football, but there aren’t many clubs around now without some sort of third party, with experience and/or knowledge of the game doing Director of Football - do you seriously think there is one club in the EFL that wishes they could follow the Cardiff model? Even our Chairmen, and our CEO apparently, wishes Tan would listen to sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Selecting a bad manager isn’t limited to us. The average tenure of a championship manager is pathetic.

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I notice you completely swerved the question. Good work.

I’ll try again: this bad advice you reckon Vinnie gets given - who do you think provides it?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I notice you completely swerved the question. Good work.

I’ll try again: this bad advice you reckon Vinnie gets given - who do you think provides it?

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Certainly not his Mother 😂