Awoniyi

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...s/cn0g8qyjywjo

Is this the worst consequence of this stupid rule to date?

Elanga was so far offside that assistant referee Sian Massey-Ellis should have used common sense to flag for offside immediately.

I have seen common sense used in many matches in the Premier League, European and international matches since the rule change came into effect.

Wishing Awoniyi a speedy recovery.

Rule change 2020:

"Delaying the flag for offside

This is new for the 2020/21 Premier League. When an immediate goalscoring opportunity is likely to occur, the assistant referee will keep their flag down if they think there is an offside until the passage of play is completed.

Once a goal is scored or the chance is gone, the assistant will raise the flag to indicate the initial offence.

If a goal is scored, the VAR will review the offside call. This weekend, incidents of a goal being scored and the assistant raising their flag occurred twice. The referee does not need to go to the Referee Review Area (RRA) as the decision is factual."

Awoniya crashing into the goalpost has nothing to do with whether a flag was raised or not.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Awoniya crashing into the goalpost has nothing to do with whether a flag was raised or not.

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Good grief !

If the move had been stopped before Elanga was allowed to cross the ball then neither player would have collided with goal post.

If the move had been stopped then I doubt Awoniyi would have deliberately crashed into the post!

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Awoniya crashing into the goalpost has nothing to do with whether a flag was raised or not.

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You obviously haven’t seen the incident. The offside was obvious from just over the half way line

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

Good grief !

If the move had been stopped before Elanga was allowed to cross the ball then neither player would have collided with goal post.

If the move had been stopped then I doubt Awoniyi would have deliberately crashed into the post!

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No, but if the flags raised the match is completely different, maybe someone else goes into the post a few minutes later.

Thing is you can say to the assistants to have common sense but each persons level of common sense is very different.

I'd do away with var altogether but if we have it then I think the offside flagging rule they have is probably the right one.

Sian Massey did her job as she's been instructed to do. There simply isn't the time for her to make such a judgement call, and neither is it her job to do so.

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Originally Posted by Trigger

No, but if the flags raised the match is completely different, maybe someone else goes into the post a few minutes later.

Thing is you can say to the assistants to have common sense but each persons level of common sense is very different.

I'd do away with var altogether but if we have it then I think the offside flagging rule they have is probably the right one.

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Yes, anyone can collide with a post or get badly injured in a tackle, but this event was completely avoidable if common sense had been applied.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/videos/foot...0q0hmw9rsq4ivb

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Sian Massey did her job as she's been instructed to do. There simply isn't the time for her to make such a judgement call, and neither is it her job to do so.

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Agree, she doesn't make the rules. She just does her best to enforce them, follow them, whatever is the right word.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Sian Massey did her job as she's been instructed to do. There simply isn't the time for her to make such a judgement call, and neither is it her job to do so.

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Don't officials make judgement calls all the time?

StT.
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Originally Posted by splott parker

You obviously haven’t seen the incident. The offside was obvious from just over the half way line

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If he was onside he still would have collided with the goalpost.

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Originally Posted by Steve the Tea

Don't officials make judgement calls all the time?

StT.
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Yes, but not a judgement call on whether a player may or may not clatter into a post 40 yards away.
When SuperKev clattered into her years ago, she did her job in monitoring the defensive line rather than straying from that because of something possibly going on in the corner of her eye.

I’m not so sure the rules were followed, it has a clause that if it’s a clear offside or the ball is on the wing to flag it, it was one of the clearest offsides in real time you will ever see. There was a 0.0% chance of that ever being allowed had the ball gone in.

If that’s not something the linesperson is going to call, then we might as well say there is no point of having someone run up and down the line anymore in games with VAR. Just put a ref in each half with the eye in the sky acting as the third.

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Originally Posted by LA Bluebird

I’m not so sure the rules were followed, it has a clause that if it’s a clear offside or the ball is on the wing to flag it, it was one of the clearest offsides in real time you will ever see. There was a 0.0% chance of that ever being allowed had the ball gone in.

If that’s not something the linesperson is going to call, then we might as well say there is no point of having someone run up and down the line anymore in games with VAR. Just put a ref in each half with the eye in the sky acting as the third.

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I thought the rule was that if the passage of play would result in a goal scoring opportunity, then they shouldn't flag as VAR would review the passage of play anyway.

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

Good grief !

If the move had been stopped before Elanga was allowed to cross the ball then neither player would have collided with goal post.

If the move had been stopped then I doubt Awoniyi would have deliberately crashed into the post!

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Both points are correct, Awoniyi wouldn't have crashed into the post had she raised the flag but also it's not her job to raise the flag against the guidance they're given just in case someone gets injured so it's also not her fault that he got injured.

All else aside though it is ridiculous that an official can't raise a flag in that scenario, it's the most offside I think I've ever seen someone

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

Yes, but not a judgement call on whether a player may or may not clatter into a post 40 yards away.
When SuperKev clattered into her years ago, she did her job in monitoring the defensive line rather than straying from that because of something possibly going on in the corner of her eye.

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The Super Kev incident had nothing to do with the events at Nott'm F which came about because of a daft off-side directive.

StT.
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Originally Posted by Steve the Tea

The Super Kev incident had nothing to do with the events at Nott'm F which came about because of a daft off-side directive.

StT.
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I didn't suggest it did. You suggested that she makes many judgement calld during games, so i provided sn example whete she chose to continue to do her job as instructed, rather than take a different course of action.
I'm not defending the rules by any stretch, I'm defending the actions of the official who followed the rules.

Poster on the bbc summarised it better than I did:

"The offside flag being delayed meant he carried on playing football, it did not cause a dangerous situation unless you class all football as a dangerous situation. It’s an unfortunate accident that could happen whether there was an offside or not"

Only real action that can be made to avoid this sort of accident is to have inflatable goal posts.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

I thought the rule was that if the passage of play would result in a goal scoring opportunity, then they shouldn't flag as VAR would review the passage of play anyway.

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I admit I'm trusting the BBC wording on this rather than looking up the actual rule, but here's the relevant piece

"Assistant referees are told to immediately raise their flag for offside if the passage of play is not a clear or immediate goalscoring opportunity, if the passage of play is going to the wing, or if they are certain the attacker is in an offside position and there is no risk of error."

I'd argue that my grandma could be certain the attacker was in an offside position here, and she's been dead for 10 years. I was watching in real time and if a linesperson can't be certain that was offside, then there is no point in them running up and down the line any more, in games with VAR just make them a second and third ref.

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Originally Posted by LA Bluebird

"Assistant referees are told to immediately raise their flag for offside if the passage of play is not a clear or immediate goalscoring opportunity, if the passage of play is going to the wing, or if they are certain the attacker is in an offside position and there is no risk of error."

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There have been quite a few references to this rule throughout the season by those commentating on the game live or pundits examining the game after the event like on MOTD.

Basically inferring ... "What happens if one or more players get seriously injured if play is allowed to continue despite an attacker clearly being offside."

In the case of Elanga being offside, it was perfectly clear. Sian Massey-Ellis was in line with the last defender so knew Elanga was clearly offside by a considerable margin.

She thought that she was following the strict guidance for assistant referees.

I have seen 'sensible' judgement calls regarding offside (stopping play early) on a few occasions this season, although at present I cannot remember which games were involved.

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

Basically inferring ... "What happens if one or more players get seriously injured if play is allowed to continue despite an attacker clearly being offside."

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But there's no link between the two, you could say it about every single decision the ref makes, or doesn't make.

"If they'd given a free kick there then the serious injury that happened 20 seconds afterwards wouldn't have happened"

"If a penalty had been given there rather than play on then the serious injury that happened the other end of the pitch that happened immediately afterwards wouldn't have happened"

etc

It's irrelevant. Offside decisions are not there to prevent injury. Awoniyi was not at greater risk of injury because she didn't flag offside, it was just an unfortunate accident, and yes if she had flagged offside it wouldn't have happened but you could say that "if" about anything

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Originally Posted by delmbox

But there's no link between the two, you could say it about every single decision the ref makes, or doesn't make.

"If they'd given a free kick there then the serious injury that happened 20 seconds afterwards wouldn't have happened"

"If a penalty had been given there rather than play on then the serious injury that happened the other end of the pitch that happened immediately afterwards wouldn't have happened"

etc

It's irrelevant. Offside decisions are not there to prevent injury. Awoniyi was not at greater risk of injury because she didn't flag offside, it was just an unfortunate accident, and yes if she had flagged offside it wouldn't have happened but you could say that "if" about anything

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BBC follow-up:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football...20opportunity.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

You obviously haven’t seen the incident. The offside was obvious from just over the half way line

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Splotty, did someone hack your account? :hehe:
You usually (well, for the best part anyway :hehe:) post logically.

Trigger's quote, best sums it up....

"The offside flag being delayed meant he carried on playing football, it did not cause a dangerous situation unless you class all football as a dangerous situation. It’s an unfortunate accident that could happen whether there was an offside or not".

We aren't watching her view, the pass is from way out of her view if she is watching the line.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

I didn't suggest it did. You suggested that she makes many judgement calld during games, so i provided sn example whete she chose to continue to do her job as instructed, rather than take a different course of action.
I'm not defending the rules by any stretch, I'm defending the actions of the official who followed the rules.

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Yes, that's the point I was making, that the directive concerning not flagging, when a player is off-side, is daft and was always going to cause a problem. Massey was following the directive. It was only a matter of time before something like this took place.

StT.
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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

Splotty, did someone hack your account? :hehe:
You usually (well, for the best part anyway :hehe:) post logically.

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He was replying to A Quiet Monkfish who thought that Awoniyi would've still crashed into the post even if the flag had gone up straight away.

To be fair to AQM, I think he got confused and thought the flag went up for Awoniyi being offside when Elanga's pass came into him. His second post backs this up. Surely no one, even on here, could believe that if Elanga had been flagged initially then Awoniyi would've kept running anyway and thrown himself into the post while everyone else was preparing for the free kick?