Re: New Party on the Left
Much too early to say whether this is a momentous day or just another left wing party of the type that have popped up every few years in opposition to right wing Labour. Scargill did it with the Socialist Labour Party. Galloway did it with Respect (you claimed to be a member James, didn't you?) and there have been others, that eventually fold.
The difference this time is that this new party would start with at least 6 MPs - maybe more.
The other difference is that the Labour Party, despite its' Parliamentary majority, is in meltdown, disillusioned, rebellious, hollowed out with half the members there were when Corbyn was leader, and with its internal democracy on life support.
Already a third of the people who voted Labour last year (34% of the votes, 20% of the electorate) have switched allegiance. Most (3/4 of those who have abandoned Labour) to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents; and the other 1/4 to Reform.
Momentum is desperately trying to stop further defections away from Labour - but without much conviction.
Political/social attitudes in the UK are changing fast and polarising - and social media is accelerating that. This time a new party might gain real traction, drive a political re-alignment, and grow enough to pass a tipping point (as Reform have probably done) before the next election.
Re: New Party on the Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Much too early to say whether this is a momentous day or just another left wing party of the type that have popped up every few years in opposition to right wing Labour. Scargill did it with the Socialist Labour Party. Galloway did it with Respect (you claimed to be a member James, didn't you?) and there have been others, that eventually fold.
The difference this time is that this new party would start with at least 6 MPs - maybe more.
The other difference is that the Labour Party, despite its' Parliamentary majority, is in meltdown, disillusioned, rebellious, hollowed out with half the members there were when Corbyn was leader, and with its internal democracy on life support.
Already a third of the people who voted Labour last year (34% of the votes, 20% of the electorate) have switched allegiance. Most (3/4 of those who have abandoned Labour) to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents; and the other 1/4 to Reform.
Momentum is desperately trying to stop further defections away from Labour - but without much conviction.
Political/social attitudes in the UK are changing fast and polarising - and social media is accelerating that. This time a new party might gain real traction, drive a political re-alignment, and grow enough to pass a tipping point (as Reform have probably done) before the next election.
Corbyn is such an arse despite his conviction
Crazy timing , will split the vote and hand the keys of power to farage
It was going to be difficult enough before this
What is needed is for starmer to be toppled and a more attractive labour party emerged
Farage will walk it now with perhaps 5 percent off Labour's vote percentage
Brainless
Re: New Party on the Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Corbyn is such an arse despite his conviction
Crazy timing , will split the vote and hand the keys of power to farage
It was going to be difficult enough before this
What is needed is for starmer to be toppled and a more attractive labour party emerged
Farage will walk it now with perhaps 5 percent off Labour's vote percentage
Brainless
Corbyn would decimate Farage. He may be our only hope against right wing hell
Re: New Party on the Left
Jeremy Corbyn is a Man of principle.
Just as Tony Benn was.
Both men saw what the EU for what it is.
Unfortunately for Jeremy Corbyn, he was not only brought centre stage by “momentum” he also faced a public that was starting to cotton on to identity politics and had a shadow cabinet, slightly worse than the Tory’s at the time and probably worse than we have now.
It seems as though political and economic talent and wisdom is at an all point low.
Then you have the matter of Labour ditching the working class for a middle class and a growing British Asian/Black demographic.
You can argue all you want about this…but there is a reason that Reform are up in the polls.
If people didn’t call them “Gammon’s” it probably wouldn’t have happened.
It did though and people dismiss other peoples fears as racism or bigotry.
Same thing with Trump.
The overton window has moved right a lot and sadly it’s down to hardline progressive’s that actually makes us regressive.
I’d wager that a sizable portion willing to take to the streets with a flag of Palestine would also be massively against Brexit, up for BLM Riots and genuinely hate most Western Societies as they currently stand.
Re: New Party on the Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Corbyn is such an arse despite his conviction
Crazy timing , will split the vote and hand the keys of power to farage
It was going to be difficult enough before this
What is needed is for starmer to be toppled and a more attractive labour party emerged
Farage will walk it now with perhaps 5 percent off Labour's vote percentage
Brainless
Sludge, you talk as if Corbyn should be thinking in terms of how he can help keep Labour, the party that he led and then he was kicked out of, in power. I was going to say Labour has drifted to the right under Starmer, but that would be wrong, it’s been a headlong rush, it’s not just been that though, they’ve been so bad at politics.
There’s been a need for a new party on the left since Starmer became PM, well before that probably in fact, and I welcome it.Will I be voting for the new party? Too early to say yet, but I know for a fact that in certain aspects (eg Gaza, Trump, an alternative to the politics of the past forty five years) their views will more closely match mine than Starmer’s Labour does.
Re: New Party on the Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Much too early to say whether this is a momentous day or just another left wing party of the type that have popped up every few years in opposition to right wing Labour. Scargill did it with the Socialist Labour Party. Galloway did it with Respect (you claimed to be a member James, didn't you?) and there have been others, that eventually fold.
The difference this time is that this new party would start with at least 6 MPs - maybe more.
The other difference is that the Labour Party, despite its' Parliamentary majority, is in meltdown, disillusioned, rebellious, hollowed out with half the members there were when Corbyn was leader, and with its internal democracy on life support.
Already a third of the people who voted Labour last year (34% of the votes, 20% of the electorate) have switched allegiance. Most (3/4 of those who have abandoned Labour) to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents; and the other 1/4 to Reform.
Momentum is desperately trying to stop further defections away from Labour - but without much conviction.
Political/social attitudes in the UK are changing fast and polarising - and social media is accelerating that. This time a new party might gain real traction, drive a political re-alignment, and grow enough to pass a tipping point (as Reform have probably done) before the next election.
Am I right in thinking that you preferred Bill Haydon to George Smilley?
Re: New Party on the Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Corbyn would decimate Farage. He may be our only hope against right wing hell
Do you mean Corbyn would decimate Farage in the polls?
Not sure that would be the scenario as the sort of Labour voters who would now feel the need to give Reform a chance are unlikely to vote for the new Corbyn-Sultana party.
Re: New Party on the Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Sludge, you talk as if Corbyn should be thinking in terms of how he can help keep Labour, the party that he led and then he was kicked out of, in power. I was going to say Labour has drifted to the right under Starmer, but that would be wrong, itÂ’s been a headlong rush, itÂ’s not just been that though, theyÂ’ve been so bad at politics.
ThereÂ’s been a need for a new party on the left since Starmer became PM, well before that probably in fact, and I welcome it.Will I be voting for the new party? Too early to say yet, but I know for a fact that in certain aspects (eg Gaza, Trump, an alternative to the politics of the past forty five years) their views will more closely match mine than StarmerÂ’s Labour does.
If there was an election tomorrow I would rather vote for a left alternative to starmer but this corbyn thing would be a disaster
There are lots of MPs with principles who I would prefer to give mt vote to than Corbyn
The only chance for Labour at the moment to pull back votes and stop reform is to get rid of starmer and his creeps
Then in the longer term for everyone to form a modern left of centre alternative to Reform and the Tories....Labour, liberals, greens , Independents, old school ex Tories
Splitting the vote any further is going to hand power to Reform and the Tories for generations
If Labour got its act together it can gain enough votes to keep them at bay but with its current leadership and a further loss of votes to corbyns break off its got no chance
Its suicide
Re: New Party on the Left
I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully a pact with Plaid can be reached so neither side eat into each other's support. The plan for me was always to vote Plaid in the Senedd elections, because they're the only party that seems to have a modicum of competence and good will right now.
Hopefully this can draw the principled elements of Labour to defect, maybe even enough to force neoliberal Keir to make concessions.
Re: New Party on the Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Much too early to say whether this is a momentous day or just another left wing party of the type that have popped up every few years in opposition to right wing Labour. Scargill did it with the Socialist Labour Party. Galloway did it with Respect (you claimed to be a member James, didn't you?) and there have been others, that eventually fold.
The difference this time is that this new party would start with at least 6 MPs - maybe more.
The other difference is that the Labour Party, despite its' Parliamentary majority, is in meltdown, disillusioned, rebellious, hollowed out with half the members there were when Corbyn was leader, and with its internal democracy on life support.
Already a third of the people who voted Labour last year (34% of the votes, 20% of the electorate) have switched allegiance. Most (3/4 of those who have abandoned Labour) to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents; and the other 1/4 to Reform.
Momentum is desperately trying to stop further defections away from Labour - but without much conviction.
Political/social attitudes in the UK are changing fast and polarising - and social media is accelerating that. This time a new party might gain real traction, drive a political re-alignment, and grow enough to pass a tipping point (as Reform have probably done) before the next election.
Yes I was, but the SLP, Socialist Alliance, Respect etc never had a cohort of sitting MPs, so if several formally started a new party then it would be momentous and by definition bigger than any of those parties. Respects high point was when Galloway won in Bethnal Green but they never built upon that.
Re: New Party on the Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wash DC Blue
Jeremy Corbyn is a Man of principle.
Just as Tony Benn was.
Both men saw what the EU for what it is.
Unfortunately for Jeremy Corbyn, he was not only brought centre stage by “momentum” he also faced a public that was starting to cotton on to identity politics and had a shadow cabinet, slightly worse than the Tory’s at the time and probably worse than we have now.
It seems as though political and economic talent and wisdom is at an all point low.
Then you have the matter of Labour ditching the working class for a middle class and a growing British Asian/Black demographic.
You can argue all you want about this…but there is a reason that Reform are up in the polls.
If people didn’t call them “Gammon’s” it probably wouldn’t have happened.
It did though and people dismiss other peoples fears as racism or bigotry.
Same thing with Trump.
The overton window has moved right a lot and sadly it’s down to hardline progressive’s that actually makes us regressive.
I’d wager that a sizable portion willing to take to the streets with a flag of Palestine would also be massively against Brexit, up for BLM Riots and genuinely hate most Western Societies as they currently stand.
I think you're absolutely right with your last sentence.
1 Attachment(s)
Re: New Party on the Left
Attachment 6583
US politics but still relevant
Re: New Party on the Left
Seems that Sultana completely jumped the gun on this announcement. Bit bizarre really as it didn't seem to just slip out after a tricky question or anything.
