Warnock getting the best out the team/squad again..

..today we only had Murphy, then Hoilett, who I'd consider to be 'quality' players with the ball at their feet. For me Ralls is the outstanding player on the pitch this season ; he covers every blade of grass and just doesn't stop, yet for the last 3 seasons I reckoned he was the weak link, which perhaps shows how lacking we are in midfield this season. Yet you could almost see Middlesbrough lose heart as the game went on. City stopped them all over the park and - as is so typical of Warnock's side[s] - they created much more with much less of the ball. Having said that, I don't think this midfield is going to push us into the top 6. Maybe with Pack for Paterson with Tomlin as an impact player they could. And hopefully Vaulks will play a part, too. 11 players all doing the jobs the manager has given them, will be a hard side to beat..

We are bang on mid table. Middlesbrough were worse than us. We did look strong at the back and Flint and Morrison seem to be getting it together now, another clean sheet. But we have nothing creative in midfield and lack a goalscorer up front despite having about 5 strikers. I can't believe Warnock took off Bogle for the totally ineffective Ward. Mind you I think there are a lot of teams such as us, not particularly good, but not bad either.

Not pretty but that’s undefeated in 5 in the league. Keep grinding out results and who knows.

Agreed. A fortunate early own goal separating 2 poor sides is about the best we can get at present.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

..today we only had Murphy, then Hoilett, who I'd consider to be 'quality' players with the ball at their feet. For me Ralls is the outstanding player on the pitch this season ; he covers every blade of grass and just doesn't stop, yet for the last 3 seasons I reckoned he was the weak link, which perhaps shows how lacking we are in midfield this season. Yet you could almost see Middlesbrough lose heart as the game went on. City stopped them all over the park and - as is so typical of Warnock's side[s] - they created much more with much less of the ball. Having said that, I don't think this midfield is going to push us into the top 6. Maybe with Pack for Paterson with Tomlin as an impact player they could. And hopefully Vaulks will play a part, too. 11 players all doing the jobs the manager has given them, will be a hard side to beat..

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I think we are developing into a workmanlike Warnock side. I see no reason why we will not he top 6 by Xmas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeremy corbyn

I think we are developing into a workmanlike Warnock side. I see no reason why we will not he top 6 by Xmas.

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I'll offer one reason. We haven't got the attacking flair and ability we had 2 seasons ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I'll offer one reason. We haven't got the attacking flair and ability we had 2 seasons ago.

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Who is missing then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goats

Who is missing then?

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Zohore for one. While he could often look languid and uninterested, Glatzel and Bogle are average in comparison to Zohore on an off day.

Whyte has no pace and no end product. Mendez-Laing took the division by storm when he started his City career. Hoilett, the only player at the club capable of good crosses is now an impact player to someone who threatens to do well (Murphy) but flatters to deceive.

We have no drive in the middle of the park and we miss Gunnarsson big time.

Teams also are more happy to sit back and deny us the chance to hit them on the break.

Our midfield 'squad' when we went up was Gunnarson, Ralls, Damour, Bryson, Grujiic, plus the wingers, Mendez-Laing and Hoilett. But the big difference is those central 5 which offered better options than we have this season

If the squad is low on quality then it’s Warnocks fault given how much he’s had to spend ?!?!?

Jesus wept

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

If the squad is low on quality then it’s Warnocks fault given how much he’s had to spend ?!?!?

Jesus wept

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I agree. I think this is a worse side than the one that got promoted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Zohore for one. While he could often look languid and uninterested, Glatzel and Bogle are average in comparison to Zohore on an off day.

Whyte has no pace and no end product. Mendez-Laing took the division by storm when he started his City career. Hoilett, the only player at the club capable of good crosses is now an impact player to someone who threatens to do well (Murphy) but flatters to deceive.

We have no drive in the middle of the park and we miss Gunnarsson big time.

Teams also are more happy to sit back and deny us the chance to hit them on the break.

---

I must have missed something with Whyte, as yes his final ball has been pretty poor but he doesn’t lack pace.

Getting the best out of!!?? He built the damn thing..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

If the squad is low on quality then it’s Warnocks fault given how much he’s had to spend ?!?!?

Jesus wept

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I'm glad you're here to cut through the bull shit mate. You cannot compare the resources he's had to build a squad in 2019 to what he had in 2017. We all accepted we had to be a bit "creative" (probably the wrong word :hehe:) two years ago but there is simply no excuse for things like Paterson number 10 now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

..today we only had Murphy, then Hoilett, who I'd consider to be 'quality' players with the ball at their feet. For me Ralls is the outstanding player on the pitch this season ; he covers every blade of grass and just doesn't stop, yet for the last 3 seasons I reckoned he was the weak link, which perhaps shows how lacking we are in midfield this season. Yet you could almost see Middlesbrough lose heart as the game went on. City stopped them all over the park and - as is so typical of Warnock's side[s] - they created much more with much less of the ball. Having said that, I don't think this midfield is going to push us into the top 6. Maybe with Pack for Paterson with Tomlin as an impact player they could. And hopefully Vaulks will play a part, too. 11 players all doing the jobs the manager has given them, will be a hard side to beat..

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All of this reads as Warnock needs a director of football. He's had 6 windows to get this right and the last good one was the summer of 17/18. Every single time he's opened his wallet the player hasn't delivered. It is beyond a joke now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

All of this reads as Warnock needs a director of football. He's had 6 windows to get this right and the last good one was the summer of 17/18. Every single time he's opened his wallet the player hasn't delivered. It is beyond a joke now.

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No it all reads this has to be his last season and pray our board get someone decent in!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by simonp_ccfc

No it all reads this has to be his last season and pray our board get someone decent in!

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Warnock is a decent manager and I'll defend his record here to the hilt. He's done a fantastic job in many areas. We all know, Warnock will decide his own fate to an extent and as long as we're competitive, Tan won't sack him as he trusts him. His signings, however, have been more miss than hit.

We still look like a side who is trying to adjust and develop its style , the positiveness is everyone put an effort in,were tough and wont be bullied ,which goes a long way in this league especially in the mid week winter period .

We lack something up front ,we don't seem to have that threat we had last time around from the wingers where teams could not cope with Mendez-Laing and Junior at times ( both I feel have not hit the ground running as first teamer's ,is he protecting them,does Junior have 90 minute game now ??)

I think he is persevering with Whyte to get his confidence up and give him critical game time ,knowing he has the talent on the bench to help the lad ,its important we try and develop the lad .

Agree the center backs are beginning to settle , Bennett is a bit off his game and Pelts is Pelts steady eddie full back .

The keeper situation will become very interesting soon , will it make a difference I'm not sure ?

Midfield is always the fans moan and groan area , if you make a mistake there your toast , unlike a forward who gets a ( oooh if only he had got there earlier , or that was bad luck)

Ralls in my view is a fine player always out a shift in for us if surrounded by better players he'd be even more effective , trouble we have he has been left to carry it all since Gunnerson has gone, and the unfortunate injury too Pack.

Its easy to blame Warnock and transfers and god don't we have bad luck with that , always felt Wales is not the first choice for English based players in the North Midland and London ,hence the arrivals from Scotland / Ireland and along the M4 up to Reading.

Do agree though we lack decent fullback cover at the moment plus one midfielder as Vaulks hasn't turned up and our German striker h
needs goals and some luck .

In what was bought in I think Flint , Pack were very shrewd purchases.

Perhaps we wont pay those inflated wages of other players ( which is an owner decision )

Many teams fall badly down the Championship once relegated , we don't seem to have fallen that far some players like Bennett , Laing and Morrison , seem a bit off their game , losing Etherdige as we did may have cost us those vital first game momentum results and then Pack bit unlucky if you ask me not bad management .

I for one was glad to see Ward on , as Boggle didn't look like scoring , and Ward when fit is good at this level , he needs game time surely ??.

What we don't see is the training pitch, in terms of effort and attitude , perhaps that's the one of the issues ??

I'm fairly happy at the moment as we looking solid , we can scrape out a result , we are 3 points off 6th , 5 points off the top ,not playing that well , need we forget its a long tough wearing season in the Championship .

We have been unlucky really with our new players signing Vaulks. Pack , Flint , Whyte , Nelson and Glatzel , and we didn't foresee the Reid sulk coming ( he or Ken don't seem to be setting the world on fire in their new promised land ?? )

Have hope , and P.M.A.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

We still look like a side who is trying to adjust and develop its style , the positiveness is everyone put an effort in,were tough and wont be bullied ,which goes a long way in this league especially in the mid week winter period .

We lack something up front ,we don't seem to have that threat we had last time around from the wingers where teams could not cope with Mendez-Laing and Junior at times ( both I feel have not hit the ground running as first teamer's ,is he protecting them,does Junior have 90 minute game now ??)

I think he is persevering with Whyte to get his confidence up and give him critical game time ,knowing he has the talent on the bench to help the lad ,its important we try and develop the lad .

Agree the center backs are beginning to settle , Bennett is a bit off his game and Pelts is Pelts steady eddie full back .

The keeper situation will become very interesting soon , will it make a difference I'm not sure ?

Midfield is always the fans moan and groan area , if you make a mistake there your toast , unlike a forward who gets a ( oooh if only he had got there earlier , or that was bad luck)

Ralls in my view is a fine player always out a shift in for us if surrounded by better players he'd be even more effective , trouble we have he has been left to carry it all since Gunnerson has gone, and the unfortunate injury too Pack.

Its easy to blame Warnock and transfers and god don't we have bad luck with that , always felt Wales is not the first choice for English based players in the North Midland and London ,hence the arrivals from Scotland / Ireland and along the M4 up to Reading.

Do agree though we lack decent fullback cover at the moment plus one midfielder as Vaulks hasn't turned up and our German striker h
needs goals and some luck .

In what was bought in I think Flint , Pack were very shrewd purchases.

Perhaps we wont pay those inflated wages of other players ( which is an owner decision )

Many teams fall badly down the Championship once relegated , we don't seem to have fallen that far some players like Bennett , Laing and Morrison , seem a bit off their game , losing Etherdige as we did may have cost us those vital first game momentum results and then Pack bit unlucky if you ask me not bad management .

I for one was glad to see Ward on , as Boggle didn't look like scoring , and Ward when fit is good at this level , he needs game time surely ??.

What we don't see is the training pitch, in terms of effort and attitude , perhaps that's the one of the issues ??

I'm fairly happy at the moment as we looking solid , we can scrape out a result , we are 3 points off 6th , 5 points off the top ,not playing that well , need we forget its a long tough wearing season in the Championship .

We have been unlucky really with our new players signing Vaulks. Pack , Flint , Whyte , Nelson and Glatzel , and we didn't foresee the Reid sulk coming ( he or Ken don't seem to be setting the world on fire in their new promised land ?? )

Have hope , and P.M.A.

---

:thumbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

All of this reads as Warnock needs a director of football. He's had 6 windows to get this right and the last good one was the summer of 17/18. Every single time he's opened his wallet the player hasn't delivered. It is beyond a joke now.

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Can you imagine Warnock working with a director of football?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Can you imagine Warnock working with a director of football?!

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:hehe: Not in a month of Sundays but the point still stands. Our recruitment has been a horror show.

[QUOTE=Pedro de la Rosa;5007056]:hehe: Not in a month of Sundays but the point still stands. Our recruitment has been a horror show.[QUOTE]

That sounds very 'Clockwork Orange'.

Would you take that result and performance repeated over the next 38 games ?

We’d be the first team to get promoted without our players (hardly) scoring a goal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

Would you take that result and performance repeated over the next 38 games ?

We’d be the first team to get promoted without our players (hardly) scoring a goal.

---

I'd snap your hands, arms, legs and face off.

Winning is absolutely fantastic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

I'd snap your hands, arms, legs and face off.

Winning is absolutely fantastic.

---

That’s 3,420 minutes of your life spent watching substandard football though.

You’ve got to reeeeally enjoy winning to put up with that many hours of dirge. I reckon you’d lose interest after 10 games.

I think I’d sacrifice 6 spots for a bit of quality on the way. Play off spot with some local youngsters and some creative play and some slick passing. Call me a purist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

That’s 3,420 minutes of your life spent watching substandard football though.

You’ve got to reeeeally enjoy winning to put up with that many hours of dirge. I reckon you’d lose interest after 10 games.

I think I’d sacrifice 6 spots for a bit of quality on the way. Play off spot with some local youngsters and some creative play and some slick passing. Call me a purist.

---

Winning is ace. 17/18 was one of the best seasons of all time and it wasn't because of the football we played.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

We still look like a side who is trying to adjust and develop its style , the positiveness is everyone put an effort in,were tough and wont be bullied ,which goes a long way in this league especially in the mid week winter period .

We lack something up front ,we don't seem to have that threat we had last time around from the wingers where teams could not cope with Mendez-Laing and Junior at times ( both I feel have not hit the ground running as first teamer's ,is he protecting them,does Junior have 90 minute game now ??)

I think he is persevering with Whyte to get his confidence up and give him critical game time ,knowing he has the talent on the bench to help the lad ,its important we try and develop the lad .

Agree the center backs are beginning to settle , Bennett is a bit off his game and Pelts is Pelts steady eddie full back .

The keeper situation will become very interesting soon , will it make a difference I'm not sure ?

Midfield is always the fans moan and groan area , if you make a mistake there your toast , unlike a forward who gets a ( oooh if only he had got there earlier , or that was bad luck)

Ralls in my view is a fine player always out a shift in for us if surrounded by better players he'd be even more effective , trouble we have he has been left to carry it all since Gunnerson has gone, and the unfortunate injury too Pack.

Its easy to blame Warnock and transfers and god don't we have bad luck with that , always felt Wales is not the first choice for English based players in the North Midland and London ,hence the arrivals from Scotland / Ireland and along the M4 up to Reading.

Do agree though we lack decent fullback cover at the moment plus one midfielder as Vaulks hasn't turned up and our German striker h
needs goals and some luck .

In what was bought in I think Flint , Pack were very shrewd purchases.

Perhaps we wont pay those inflated wages of other players ( which is an owner decision )

Many teams fall badly down the Championship once relegated , we don't seem to have fallen that far some players like Bennett , Laing and Morrison , seem a bit off their game , losing Etherdige as we did may have cost us those vital first game momentum results and then Pack bit unlucky if you ask me not bad management .

I for one was glad to see Ward on , as Boggle didn't look like scoring , and Ward when fit is good at this level , he needs game time surely ??.

What we don't see is the training pitch, in terms of effort and attitude , perhaps that's the one of the issues ??

I'm fairly happy at the moment as we looking solid , we can scrape out a result , we are 3 points off 6th , 5 points off the top ,not playing that well , need we forget its a long tough wearing season in the Championship .

We have been unlucky really with our new players signing Vaulks. Pack , Flint , Whyte , Nelson and Glatzel , and we didn't foresee the Reid sulk coming ( he or Ken don't seem to be setting the world on fire in their new promised land ?? )

Have hope , and P.M.A.

---

What would have been "very shrewd" for me would have been not letting a centreback who Neil Warnock never gave a chance to leave the club for, at most, a nominal fee and now he's playing regularly, and scoring, for a side who are unbeaten and above us in the table.

Instead, we got a thirty year old, who, to be fair, is playing well at the moment, but he could cost us as much as £6 million.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Warnock is a decent manager and I'll defend his record here to the hilt. He's done a fantastic job in many areas. We all know, Warnock will decide his own fate to an extent and as long as we're competitive, Tan won't sack him as he trusts him. His signings, however, have been more miss than hit.

---

Maybe, it's a brutal way to look at things, but all Neil Warnock has done is spend an awful lot of the club's money to get us a few places up the Championship table. I accept that getting us promoted was a bigger achievement than getting us relegated was a black mark against him, but, nonetheless, he has largely got away Scot free when it comes to our relegation.

For me, he has been a good first team manager up to a point, but he's done nothing as far as the levels below that go and that's why I hope no one at the club gives serious thought to the suggestion that he be given some sort of Director of Football role when he steps down from the manager's job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Maybe, it's a brutal way to look at things, but all Neil Warnock has done is spend an awful lot of the club's money to get us a few places up the Championship table. I accept that getting us promoted was a bigger achievement than getting us relegated was a black mark against him, but, nonetheless, he has largely got away Scot free when it comes to our relegation.

For me, he has been a good first team manager up to a point, but he's done nothing as far as the levels below that go and that's why I hope no one at the club gives serious thought to the suggestion that he be given some sort of Director of Football role when he steps down from the manager's job.

---

That would be a disaster waiting, if it happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Winning is ace. 17/18 was one of the best seasons of all time and it wasn't because of the football we played.

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I preferred the football we played with Bellamy and the likes. That squad would have wiped the floor with Warnock’s.

....17/18 is the most recent success but one of the best seasons of all time is a bit rose tinted I reckon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

I preferred the football we played with Bellamy and the likes. That squad would have wiped the floor with Warnock’s.

....17/18 is the most recent success but one of the best seasons of all time is a bit rose tinted I reckon.

---

In my memory it is, I've watched us for 20 years and we've never played good football save for a few years under Jones. We did it, and we did it while managing to piss off half the division. I hated losing to Blackpool with the better team, I hated being reliant on Bothroyd, I hated losing 3-0 to Boro and I hated getting hit for 6 by PNE. The Dave Jones era was good but we flattered to deceive, constantly. I didn't enjoy playing nice football while we drew 4-4 with Peterborough. I'd take winning over any of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Maybe, it's a brutal way to look at things, but all Neil Warnock has done is spend an awful lot of the club's money to get us a few places up the Championship table. I accept that getting us promoted was a bigger achievement than getting us relegated was a black mark against him, but, nonetheless, he has largely got away Scot free when it comes to our relegation.

For me, he has been a good first team manager up to a point, but he's done nothing as far as the levels below that go and that's why I hope no one at the club gives serious thought to the suggestion that he be given some sort of Director of Football role when he steps down from the manager's job.

---

Perhaps but there's an awful lot of managers who haven't done that. I don't want him as DoF, and if this season does peter out, I'd want us to put a structure in place than can see us succeed post Warnock. It won't happen though, I just hope the new man isn't Blackwell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

In my memory it is, I've watched us for 20 years and we've never played good football save for a few years under Jones. We did it, and we did it while managing to piss off half the division. I hated losing to Blackpool with the better team, I hated being reliant on Bothroyd, I hated losing 3-0 to Boro and I hated getting hit for 6 by PNE. The Dave Jones era was good but we flattered to deceive, constantly. I didn't enjoy playing nice football while we drew 4-4 with Peterborough. I'd take winning over any of that.

---

All time = 20 years. Ok. That is different.

Since 1999, 17/18 is probably one of the better seasons, yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Perhaps but there's an awful lot of managers who haven't done that. I don't want him as DoF, and if this season does peter out, I'd want us to put a structure in place than can see us succeed post Warnock. It won't happen though, I just hope the new man isn't Blackwell.

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Blackwell will be nailed on, he's cheap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

I'm glad you're here to cut through the bull shit mate. You cannot compare the resources he's had to build a squad in 2019 to what he had in 2017. We all accepted we had to be a bit "creative" (probably the wrong word :hehe:) two years ago but there is simply no excuse for things like Paterson number 10 now!

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Here here

It's interesting to me that Warnock was described as getting the best out of his team after it had just beaten a mediocre Middlesbrough side 1-0 courtesy of an early own goal, and after a game in which it reportedly didn't have a single shot on target of any note.

I'm not really sure what that says about the way things are with City at present.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

All time = 20 years. Ok. That is different.

Since 1999, 17/18 is probably one of the better seasons, yes.

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If you'd rather watch us play pretty football and do nothing, rather than get promoted, be my guest. I know what the majority of Brentford fans would choose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

What would have been "very shrewd" for me would have been not letting a centreback who Neil Warnock never gave a chance to leave the club for, at most, a nominal fee and now he's playing regularly, and scoring, for a side who are unbeaten and above us in the table.

Instead, we got a thirty year old, who, to be fair, is playing well at the moment, but he could cost us as much as £6 million.

---

Are you criticising Neil Warnock for not giving Semi Ajayi a new contract in 2017?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Are you criticising Neil Warnock for not giving Semi Ajayi a new contract in 2017?

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I'm criticising Neil Warncok for what he did while Ajayi was a Cardiff player, because his subsequent career clearly demonstrates that we had a potential first team player on our hands and yet he was never given a single chance at Cardiff - he was nearly twenty four when he left us, so it was hardly a case of releasing a youngster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'm criticising Neil Warncok for what he did while Ajayi was a Cardiff player, because his subsequent career clearly demonstrates that we had a potential first team player on our hands and yet he was never given a single chance at Cardiff - he was nearly twenty four when he left us, so it was hardly a case of releasing a youngster.

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Ajayi signed on loan for us in March 2015 and then permanently at the end of that season. He went out on loan to Wimbledon and Crewe in 2015/16. When Warnock was appointed as Cardiff manager in October 2016, Ajayi had not played a single minute for the first team. He went out on loan to Rotherham in January 2017 and agreed a permanent deal with them in March of that year.

I realise that you are not a fan of Warnock, but to criticise him for this almost three years later is ridiculous.