Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

I honestly don't know

I can see the advantages of providing some of the benefits quicker (albeit on a lesser scale).

I can also understand why there is upset that the full plan will not be implemented although the 2040's
does seem a long way away.

Could new technology such as the Richard Branson Hyper Loop make traditional railway systems (at least, long distance ones) redundant by then.

Far fetched? Maybe, but it not so long that people thought that commercially viable electric cars were way in the future. Who would have forecast 10 years ago that the UK would phase out new petrol and diesel cars by 2030 ( only 9nyeaqrs away now)

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Richard Branson Hyper Loop

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The idea has been around since the early 19th century

I can't see this playing out well for the government, they made a big fuss about the "northern powerhouse". This is an open goal for Labour surely?

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I can't see this playing out well for the government, they made a big fuss about the "northern powerhouse". This is an open goal for Labour surely?

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The headline isn't great, but it'll pass. HS2 has always been both controversial but also a long way in the future. This will bring forward more benefits to more communities and quicker.

I've never supported HS2 personally, so I think it's better to spread the benefits out more and improve more routes etc.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I can't see this playing out well for the government, they made a big fuss about the "northern powerhouse". This is an open goal for Labour surely?

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I want to see HS2 to Leeds (and beyond) and the promised new trans-Pennine track - but the breaking of multiple promises by Johnson and the government is no surprise. The reaction from the regional press (especially Manchester, Sheffield and Newcastle) and northern politicians and business reps has been vitriolic. But the loudest noise has come from the big Labour cities.

I'm not sure how the 'betrayal' line is going to play in the new 'Blue Wall' seats where the benefits of HS2 would have been more remote. It doesn't help that Starmer was and HS2 sceptic (north London seat - all pain and no gain) but has now discovered the case for it, a bit too late.

More 'broken promises' and the appearance of Tory disarray may have a longer term effect on Tory support than the specifics of the HS2 cancellation and merits or otherwise of the alternative plans they are cobbling together.

I think the North does need a quick response not a project that finishes in 2040 or probably beyond and double the cost it is projected at now , best to help the areas now, and put the bigger project n the back burner ,or cancel it .

Working local folk don't all need quick mainline routes between big cities, forking out high end ticket prices.

Locals will be looking looking for better shorter transport infrastructures , perhaps this funding may provide it ?? and may keep those communities together , and not see families split up root from their smaller city / towns to go to big cities to work .

All Governments have let the North down over the decades in the rush for big City growth and wealth in particular the South .

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

The headline isn't great, but it'll pass. HS2 has always been both controversial but also a long way in the future. This will bring forward more benefits to more communities and quicker.

I've never supported HS2 personally, so I think it's better to spread the benefits out more and improve more routes etc.

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You're right about the it'll pass comment - voters have very short memories - they say that only the last 18 months or so before an election really register with the voter, so they probably think they're far enough ahead of where they need to be to get some unpopular things out of the way now.

Rail network is due for an overhaul, but too much into one project for the sake of 20 mins, The blonde one hasn't been too long to start shitting on his northern wall, if it's a major start to his removal a silver cloud n all that.

Good news for the people of Wales, how we are paying for an infrastructure project for another country that actually causes a negative economic effect is simply mindblowing, the only thing even worse is that so many people seem fine about it. Borderline robbery of £5billion which could make a massive positive difference to peoples lives, crooks.

The government was wrong about HS2 full stop. For over a £100 billion spend on HS2 business people would save about 30 minutes travelling time between London and Birmingham - big deal! The project should never have been started and the money spent on improving Intercity connections between cities in the North instead.

Is there any approximate costs of electrifying the majority of the UK network like say Europe has done?

HS2 cancelled from Brum to Manchester..

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

The government was wrong about HS2 full stop. For over a £100 billion spend on HS2 business people would save about 30 minutes travelling time between London and Birmingham - big deal! The project should never have been started and the money spent on improving Intercity connections between cities in the North instead.

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The business case was more to do with additional capacity on the mainline

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

Good news for the people of Wales, how we are paying for an infrastructure project for another country that actually causes a negative economic effect is simply mindblowing, the only thing even worse is that so many people seem fine about it. Borderline robbery of £5billion which could make a massive positive difference to peoples lives, crooks.

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this is such a scandal, we should be all up in arms about this. 5bn of infrastructure spending would be very significant for Wales

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Originally Posted by Rjk

this is such a scandal, we should be all up in arms about this. 5bn of infrastructure spending would be very significant for Wales

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It is a huge scandal and they’ve used indirectly Covid as an excuse. https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/new...-b2420328.html

The money wasted on the M4 relief road , central government underspend, £33m on the 20mph policy and the Welsh taxpayers contribution to the HS2 programme could have helped towards improvements in infrastructure and rolling stock for TfW, particularly the Milford Haven to Manchester service which is way behind other rail franchises.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

The headline isn't great, but it'll pass. HS2 has always been both controversial but also a long way in the future. This will bring forward more benefits to more communities and quicker.

I've never supported HS2 personally, so I think it's better to spread the benefits out more and improve more routes etc.

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😂

You dopey sod

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I can't see this playing out well for the government, they made a big fuss about the "northern powerhouse". This is an open goal for Labour surely?

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Watch the idiots miss

Completely incompetent opposition

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

HS2 cancelled from Brum to Manchester..

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What a surprise

What a bunch of jokers at the conference , clapping like dull seals , hoping the public don't notice

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Watch the idiots miss

Completely incompetent opposition

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They’re waiting to see what the focus groups say.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

They’re waiting to see what the focus groups say.

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The opposition needs a Blair......without his lies ....to sweep in

It's painful to watch

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The opposition needs a Blair......without his lies ....to sweep in

It's painful to watch

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the latest polling are predicting a bloodbath for the Tories in the next election. practically wiped out in Wales. as things should be

They should have started building HS1,2,3 /northern powerhouse thingy in the North as that's where the investment was needed most. Instead the government have looked after themselves and the South, by concentrating on the London to Birmingham line then scrapping the rest.
They wanted to level up,but have just increased the gap instead.

I've never supported HS2. I honestly think it should have been scrapped years ago. London to Birmingham brings some benefits but I think the nature of train travel has changed. The necessity is less than it was and with wifi etc it is not the 'downtime' it was.

I think spending it on a far greater number of more local projects is a much better idea tbh. Cardiff to Manchester is shit. Cardiff to Bristol doesn't run late enough. Liverpool to Manchester is poor, Manchester to Sheffield dreadful, intra-city services in places like Bristol are dreadful.

I think a lot more can be achieved by spending it elsewhere on more projects. At the end of the day, funding is finite, and spending so much on one project of dubious value, starving other schemes of funding as a result was never a good use of resources in my opinion

The challenge now is to bake these projects in, get them funding allocated and start them moving as projects as soon as possible.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

The challenge now is to bake these projects in, get them funding allocated and start them moving as projects as soon as possible.

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Therein lies the problem. The promises of spending on other projects today are the sugar coating of a shit show finally being shelved, which will go the same way as the 40 hospitals, no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

this is such a scandal, we should be all up in arms about this. 5bn of infrastructure spending would be very significant for Wales

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Exactly. People are up in arms to the tune of 500,000 signatures because they have to drive 10mph slower and that it cost 30m to put in place.

England has shafted Wales out of 5 BILLION! That’s an insane amount of money. Linking north Wales and south Wales via Carmarthen and Aberystwyth would cost around 800m leaving 4.2BN left to spend. You could electrify almost the entire Welsh network with that type of money.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

the latest polling are predicting a bloodbath for the Tories in the next election. practically wiped out in Wales. as things should be

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I certainly hope so

What's the most reliable data ?

Some of the smaller pollsters are all over the shop

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

They should have started building HS1,2,3 /northern powerhouse thingy in the North as that's where the investment was needed most. Instead the government have looked after themselves and the South, by concentrating on the London to Birmingham line then scrapping the rest.
They wanted to level up,but have just increased the gap instead.

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Well if the clarts in the northern seats who voted tory stick with them then that's their choice but they can't complain

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I've never supported HS2. I honestly think it should have been scrapped years ago. London to Birmingham brings some benefits but I think the nature of train travel has changed. The necessity is less than it was and with wifi etc it is not the 'downtime' it was.

I think spending it on a far greater number of more local projects is a much better idea tbh. Cardiff to Manchester is shit. Cardiff to Bristol doesn't run late enough. Liverpool to Manchester is poor, Manchester to Sheffield dreadful, intra-city services in places like Bristol are dreadful.

I think a lot more can be achieved by spending it elsewhere on more projects. At the end of the day, funding is finite, and spending so much on one project of dubious value, starving other schemes of funding as a result was never a good use of resources in my opinion

The challenge now is to bake these projects in, get them funding allocated and start them moving as projects as soon as possible.

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Are you shagging rishi ?

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Therein lies the problem. The promises of spending on other projects today are the sugar coating of a shit show finally being shelved, which will go the same way as the 40 hospitals, no doubt.

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More police , more hospitals , more trains !

Thump fists

Clap at conference

Lie

Start again

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

More police , more hospitals , more trains !

Thump fists

Clap at conference

Lie

Start again

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Wheeling his mrs out to say he's great was a bit special
A billionaire popping in unannounced to tell everyone how hard her husband is working, while so many are on the breadline.
Unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Wheeling his mrs out to say he's great was a bit special
A billionaire popping in unannounced to tell everyone how hard her husband is working, while so many are on the breadline.
Unnecessary.

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They are all tossers

I hope if they are given a hammering at the election the opposition parties shape up and start acting in some sort of unwritten deal to keep them out

Dreadful bunch of chancers

One of the positives for HS2 was that it would relieve the congestion on the other lines, thus aiding the whole service. Seems like they're going to smarten up the other lines without doing anything about the capacity issues.

Like Brexit, I don't think any of us average Joe's are in a position to evaluate the benefits and disbenefits of such projects, the cost of not doing them and any alternative options that would be better value for part of the money. One thing that I do think though, is that such decisions need to be cross-party - as they are very long-term and they shouldn't be at the mercy of a different colour of government a year or two down the line and further governments thereafter.

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

Wheeling his mrs out to say he's great was a bit special
A billionaire popping in unannounced to tell everyone how hard her husband is working, while so many are on the breadline.
Unnecessary.

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It was pretty American, like when Michelle Obama would regularly speak. Clearly helps to drive home the 'loving husband's etc image.

I did find it a little odd, but not unpleasant in any way.

If I were to go from Birmingham New Street to Manchester tomorrow, it would take me 1hr 28mins.

Don't get me wrong, clearly shaving half an hour off that is half an hour I could be doing something else, but is that really a priority? Is that really the biggest transport need in this country?

Electrification, dialling of tracks, skipping stations, faster trains, taller bridges etc etc..all of that is good. And High Speed Rail is good too, but not at any price.

I'm struggling to think why people would really need to get between the centres of two very different cities in two very different parts of the country quicker than in an hour and 28 mins, esp when in most cases you can work on trains if so desired and you could easily lose 10-15 mins in a taxi or car either side of the stations anyway.

Like I said, they need to bake in these new projects and do it sharpish but I think it's the right decision.

Will be interesting to see if Labour propose to reverse it in their conference next week

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

If I were to go from Birmingham New Street to Manchester tomorrow, it would take me 1hr 28mins.

Don't get me wrong, clearly shaving half an hour off that is half an hour I could be doing something else, but is that really a priority? Is that really the biggest transport need in this country?

Electrification, dialling of tracks, skipping stations, faster trains, taller bridges etc etc..all of that is good. And High Speed Rail is good too, but not at any price.

I'm struggling to think why people would really need to get between the centres of two very different cities in two very different parts of the country quicker than in an hour and 28 mins, esp when in most cases you can work on trains if so desired and you could easily lose 10-15 mins in a taxi or car either side of the stations anyway.

Like I said, they need to bake in these new projects and do it sharpish but I think it's the right decision.

Will be interesting to see if Labour propose to reverse it in their conference next week

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Are these new projects being completed before or after the building of the 40 new hospitals?

The joking Prime Minister who wasn't even a full ranking cabinet minister at the time of the 2019 election and is 20 points behind in the polls just gets to cancel the country's largest infrastructure project, which his party's manifesto committed to completing.

They deserve and will get absolutely annihilated in the next general election.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It was pretty American, like when Michelle Obama would regularly speak. Clearly helps to drive home the 'loving husband's etc image.

I did find it a little odd, but not unpleasant in any way.

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It felt strange to bring her into the fold at all, because when her taxes were being discussed he seemed to take issue with her being involved in his political life.

Is the uk able to actually follow through and deliver anything on schedule?

It isn't just about shaving time off a journey, it is also about capacity. But from a travel time perspective, it feels like the uk is small enough to be 'open' and easily/quickly navigable.

I was death scrolling looking at the USA on Google maps and it dawned on me that one of the main advantages the uk has is that everything is pretty close together. It shouldn't be beyond us to be able to navigate top to bottom, vice versa and across in a morning and at a reasonable cost, but for some reason it is.

This isn't a choice between local transport and Intercity transport, this is a defining moment for this 13 year conservative government, it proves that even left entirely to their own devices, without outside interference, blockers or barriers, they are incapable of delivering.

Sunak attempting to rebrand cancelling long term projects and plans as 'making long term decisions' is laughable and initial polling suggests this messaging isn't even working with traditional conservative voters.

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

It felt strange to bring her into the fold at all, because when her taxes were being discussed he seemed to take issue with her being involved in his political life.

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Perhaps his potential successors (sorry fellow Cabinet members) made themselves unavailable to declare his brilliance?

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Originally Posted by superfeathers

It felt strange to bring her into the fold at all, because when her taxes were being discussed he seemed to take issue with her being involved in his political life.

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What a chancer

Typical tory

Send him to the tower