Colwill

Where's he these days? Never in the squad, has he been injured?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

Where's he these days? Never in the squad, has he been injured?

---

I was thinking EXACTLY the same yesterday - you'd have to assume so....... :shrug:

Dropped I believe. He was there yesterday watching.

He played against Swansea U23 last week , by all accounts wasn't a great performance ?

played for the u23s on Tuesday I think it was, Morison mentioned in a recent interview that he hadn't played for a while so needed some game time. not sure whether that was injury or just loss of form.

didn't really stand out for the u23s from what I've heard.

we've all said the young players will have rough patches as they learn how to compete at this level. I'm sure he's still in the club's plans

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

He played against Swansea U23 last week , by all accounts wasn't a great performance ?

---

I though he was recovering from covid?? He did play against swansea in the under 23 looked leggy and lethargic - assume still getting back to full fitness - these are the questions the press should be asking?

We've got a lot of games to play in a short space of time so I imagine he'll feature

I'd like to see him as part of a midfield 3

Morison said something yesterday about the new players coming in giving the other youngsters the chance to develop outside the spotlight and get back into the squad which made it sound too me like he'd been out of it through the choice of the manager. He should be in every squad though on the bench at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunderlandBluebird

Morison said something yesterday about the new players coming in giving the other youngsters the chance to develop outside the spotlight and get back into the squad which made it sound too me like he'd been out of it through the choice of the manager. He should be in every squad though on the bench at least.

---

For once I thought Morison talked sense. We are expecting too much of our youngsters in a relegation battle. They need time and space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Former Labour leader

For once I thought Morison talked sense. We are expecting too much of our youngsters in a relegation battle. They need time and space.

---

It would have made more sense if the players that have been brought in were not as young as our own youngsters he is taking “out of the spotlight” and they are just as inexperienced in the championship.

I have heard Colwill has been moved out of the first team dressing room and back with the under 23s changing room although he is still training with first team.

The irony is he’s got the job because he was under 23 manager and we had a load of under 23s in the first team picture which he’d worked with previously but now he’s bombed every one except Isaak Davies out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

It would have made more sense if the players that have been brought in were not as young as our own youngsters he is taking “out of the spotlight” and they are just as inexperienced in the championship.

I have heard Colwill has been moved out of the first team dressing room and back with the under 23s changing room although he is still training with first team.

The irony is he’s got the job because he was under 23 manager and we had a load of under 23s in the first team picture which he’d worked with previously but now he’s bombed every one except Isaak Davies out.

---

Colwill was with the other non playing subs yesterday like Harris so he definitely was with the 1st team squad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

It would have made more sense if the players that have been brought in were not as young as our own youngsters he is taking “out of the spotlight” and they are just as inexperienced in the championship.

I have heard Colwill has been moved out of the first team dressing room and back with the under 23s changing room although he is still training with first team.

The irony is he’s got the job because he was under 23 manager and we had a load of under 23s in the first team picture which he’d worked with previously but now he’s bombed every one except Isaak Davies out.

---

I have a pet theory that he doesn't want to play the youngsters Mick gave debuts to, Bowen and Colwill in particular looked like establishing themselves before Morison got the job

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

It would have made more sense if the players that have been brought in were not as young as our own youngsters he is taking “out of the spotlight” and they are just as inexperienced in the championship.

I have heard Colwill has been moved out of the first team dressing room and back with the under 23s changing room although he is still training with first team.

The irony is he’s got the job because he was under 23 manager and we had a load of under 23s in the first team picture which he’d worked with previously but now he’s bombed every one except Isaak Davies out.

---

It's a mess for sure and I don't see any strategy now except 'stay up'. Which, in itself is of course essential. I think he's been nobbled by Tan. This frenzy of loan players smacks of that kind of nonsense interference from him. Morison isn't my kind of manager and this window he's gone mental re. loans. We can't build from this but then we can't build from L1 either. However, we look at it our club's still a mess and all we're going to be able to do for the rest of the season is cheer on the cavalry and hope, at least, some of our own get game time. Then there's the Summer and f*ck knows after that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by City123

I have a pet theory that he doesn't want to play the youngsters Mick gave debuts to, Bowen and Colwill in particular looked like establishing themselves before Morison got the job

---

no, I'm not buying that

Bowen was out for ages with injury, and Colwill has played more full 90 minutes under Morison than he did under Mick .

I think that as time has gone on we've adapted the formation from one with 2 CMS 2 AMS and a lone striker to having 3 CMS and 2 strikers, in an attempt to become more solid.
that doesn't mean we won't revert back when the time is right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

It's a mess for sure and I don't see any strategy now except 'stay up'. Which, in itself is of course essential. I think he's been nobbled by Tan. This frenzy of loan players smacks of that kind of nonsense interference from him. Morison isn't my kind of manager and this window he's gone mental re. loans. We can't build from this but then we can't build from L1 either. However, we look at it our club's still a mess and all we're going to be able to do for the rest of the season is cheer on the cavalry and hope, at least, some of our own get game time. Then there's the Summer and f*ck knows after that.

---

I presume the only loans rule is enforced by the club until we know who the manager will be next season.
seeing if through Steve Morison's eyes then he has a bunch of games to try to persuade them he's the man for the job, so he's obviously going to try to play the players that showcase this style of play the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rjk

I presume the only loans rule is enforced by the club until we know who the manager will be next season.
seeing if through Steve Morison's eyes then he has a bunch of games to try to persuade them he's the man for the job, so he's obviously going to try to play the players that showcase this style of play the best.

---

I get that but that's not what I meant. Surely you must see that he's slowly ditched the U23s players and is now looking at a sticking plaster approach? I agree he'll want to do what's necessary to stay manager and in that sense, he'll be as mercenary as any other. I think as fans we think players and managers are our friends. They're not. It's just a job. He doesn't give a sh*t about anyone but himself and his job. Players are just a means to an end for any manager.

I think he has slowed up a bit. My theory is that after he had covid, his pace (though he is not blessed with lots of it) went missing a bit, and he had not been doing enough to get in the team. I think he would and should be used as an impact player mind, and as stated above should be on the bench at least.
Spedger

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloop_Jon_Bee

I think he has slowed up a bit. My theory is that after he had covid, his pace (though he is not blessed with lots of it) went missing a bit, and he had not been doing enough to get in the team. I think he would and should be used as an impact player mind, and as stated above should be on the bench at least.
Spedger

---

I agree with this. I think Covid has had a huge impact on many players. More than we care to dwell on. I agree with the impact player strategy too. It's a shame that 2-0 up against Forest Colwill wasn't on with Davies. That's my ideal situation if we're starting with loanees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

I get that but that's not what I meant. Surely you must see that he's slowly ditched the U23s players and is now looking at a sticking plaster approach? I agree he'll want to do what's necessary to stay manager and in that sense, he'll be as mercenary as any other. I think as fans we think players and managers are our friends. They're not. It's just a job. He doesn't give a sh*t about anyone but himself and his job. Players are just a means to an end for any manager.

---

To be fair we were heading down. Yesterday was the best performance of the season. Play like that every week wed be top 10.

Its not just the young players. Flint , Nelson , Pack , Vaulks left out as well.

Davies scored the winner yesterday , McGuinness still in the team Bagan on the bench.

I do think Colwill and Harris should be on the bench though.

We have to stay up. Yesterday was the 1st time in a long time I felt confident we would do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hilts

To be fair we were heading down. Yesterday was the best performance of the season. Play like that every week wed be top 10.

Its not just the young players. Flint , Nelson , Pack , Vaulks left out as well.

Davies scored the winner yesterday , McGuinness still in the team Bagan on the bench.

I do think Colwill and Harris should be on the bench though.

We have to stay up. Yesterday was the 1st time in a long time I felt confident we would do so.

---

Maybe I'm not communicating my thoughts properly because I'm not having a go. Everything you've written I've written somewhere on here too. I agree with you. I"m probably sounding more critical than I feel. I mentioned in another post that I think our club's a mess and I stick by that. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the match yesterday. That doesn't mean that I'm pleased the gamble to start that eleven didn't pay off. I've also said that Forest was not prepared for that City team yesterday. They didn't know what to do. Cooper was well and truly snookered.

I think that the question we should be asking ourselves is what is his overall game like? He's good in the final third, very positive on the ball and looks to create chances, but i don't see any discussion on his ability to defend, his positional play when we aren't in possession, his decision making etc. Yes, we are all willing him to do well as he has been with us since he was a sprout, but surely we should talk about what Colwill does good and bad and whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives or the other way round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

I think that the question we should be asking ourselves is what is his overall game like? He's good in the final third, very positive on the ball and looks to create chances, but i don't see any discussion on his ability to defend, his positional play when we aren't in possession, his decision making etc. Yes, we are all willing him to do well as he has been with us since he was a sprout, but surely we should talk about what Colwill does good and bad and whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives or the other way round.

---

Walking on eggshells! I'd hope we (as in this board) could discuss this stuff without it being taken personally but that's sometimes hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

I think that the question we should be asking ourselves is what is his overall game like? He's good in the final third, very positive on the ball and looks to create chances, but i don't see any discussion on his ability to defend, his positional play when we aren't in possession, his decision making etc. Yes, we are all willing him to do well as he has been with us since he was a sprout, but surely we should talk about what Colwill does good and bad and whether or not the positives outweigh the negatives or the other way round.

---

I think his positioning and defensive side need work but I also think he suffered from the weird 3 man attack thing we were trying under Mick and at the start under Morison where nobody really knew where they were supposed to be, not just Colwill. under Morison, now we seem to have settled on a 3 man midfield with 2 up top which ought to make it clearer where he should be playing. I think he'd be better suited to a midfield position personally, especially as he gets older when you consider his size.

I think a lot of the frustration comes from players who put in poor performances week in week out continually getting picked whilst players like Colwill are dropped from the squad entirely despite actually showing promise, with the only reason that's apparent being he's the youngster so it's easier to drop him. What have Pack and Vaulks done to deserve being in the squad each week this season? I couldn't tell you, yet our second highest goalscorer seems to have been dropped to the u23s.

Semantics. It’s plain for all to see Colwills game time has got progressively less under Morison, to the point he’s now not even in the match day squad.

Just what is the point in our own academy if you’re going to loan players from other teams academy’s. Must be soul destroying for these lads.

I hope they get as far away from the club as possible for their own futures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

Walking on eggshells! I'd hope we (as in this board) could discuss this stuff without it being taken personally but that's sometimes hard.

---

It does feel like that sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

I get that but that's not what I meant. Surely you must see that he's slowly ditched the U23s players and is now looking at a sticking plaster approach? I agree he'll want to do what's necessary to stay manager and in that sense, he'll be as mercenary as any other. I think as fans we think players and managers are our friends. They're not. It's just a job. He doesn't give a sh*t about anyone but himself and his job. Players are just a means to an end for any manager.

---

Could it be Morison has given the board a list of players he wants to bring in and they have backed him? Or is that to positive? :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stan butler

Could it be Morison has given the board a list of players he wants to bring in and they have backed him? Or is that to positive? :hehe:

---

Way too positive Stan. You're trying to reason with a seasoned cynic here. I've put the years in mate! :wink:

There was a lot of talk yesterday, about whether Morison had 'abandoned' the younger players, lads that he had guided through the ranks. Truth is, he's given them ten or eleven games to prove that they could get us out of a hole, and has come to the conclusion that it's not going to work. We are in desperate straits, and relegation has to be avoided at all costs. Hence bringing in players with experience. Yes, it might seem odd that we are effectively training future Premier players, instead of bringing on our own, but needs must.

We could carry on with the youth, and possibly get relegated, or, we can bring in short term help, and keep the club in the Championship. I know which I'd prefer. If we went down, there would be a lot of players offloaded, and those promising youngsters would be lost forever. In my eyes, those loanees are helping to preserve a future for our youth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tforturton

There was a lot of talk yesterday, about whether Morison had 'abandoned' the younger players, lads that he had guided through the ranks. Truth is, he's given them ten or eleven games to prove that they could get us out of a hole, and has come to the conclusion that it's not going to work. We are in desperate straits, and relegation has to be avoided at all costs. Hence bringing in players with experience. Yes, it might seem odd that we are effectively training future Premier players, instead of bringing on our own, but needs must.

We could carry on with the youth, and possibly get relegated, or, we can bring in short term help, and keep the club in the Championship. I know which I'd prefer. If we went down, there would be a lot of players offloaded, and those promising youngsters would be lost forever. In my eyes, those loanees are helping to preserve a future for our youth.

---

Has he? Here's who's started 6 (around half) or more of our games under Morison

Smithies (obviously), Ng & McGuinness - 13
Nelson - 12
Giles - 10
Pack & Ralls - 9
Flint - 8
Vaulks - 7
Collins, Moore & Harris - 6

Not many of our youngsters in that list, the only one really being McGuinness who was signed this summer. Colwill started 5 but weirdly no starts since the 2-2 at Birmingham and not many minutes when has come on (12 v Blackburn, 11 v West Brom) in those 5 starts he scored at Stoke & Luton he's now not in the squad. Davies has had the main impact but mainly as a sub. Evans and Zimba have been sent out on loan, Bowen has been injured but really is nowhere to be seen. There's not even been a suggestion that he may look at one of the u23s defenders

I don't buy this "lads that he guided through the ranks" stuff, this crop of youngsters was known to be good for a while, Morison was in charge of the u23s for 18 months. Is he important? Yes. But I think he's getting a little bit more credit than he should in terms of these players' development

We should never had been so reliant on academy players. The way to bring them through is with appearances from the bench and the occasional start. The squad as a whole looks stronger now, and it was good to see Davies come on and score yesterday. Hopefully we'll see more of that between now and the end of the season for him, Harris, Colwill and Bagan.
Then who knows what happens in the summer.

Having both Pack and Vaulks on the bench but not Colwill is a bit odd. How often are we going to want to bring on two central midfielders?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

Having both Pack and Vaulks on the bench but not Colwill is a bit odd. How often are we going to want to bring on two central midfielders?

---

I think he has had an illness recently (Covid?). He played in the u23 game against Swansea last week and wasn't back to his sharpest.

Maybe it is just a case of managing a young player, taking him out of the firing line, and giving him time to get back to full fitness?

He will be a major player for us for years to come.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Undercoverinwurzelland

We should never had been so reliant on academy players. The way to bring them through is with appearances from the bench and the occasional start. The squad as a whole looks stronger now, and it was good to see Davies come on and score yesterday. Hopefully we'll see more of that between now and the end of the season for him, Harris, Colwill and Bagan.
Then who knows what happens in the summer.

---

I guess Mick McCarthy would have liked to have had the opportunity to sign more players, but we are where we are.

if we end the season with McGuiness a first team regular and Harris, Davies, Colwill and Bagan as squad players that has to be seen as a positive in terms of youth development imo

Pretty sure McGuinness was a free transfer? That one's definitely gone under the radar, as I'd say he's already a first-team regular. I wasn't a fan of MM but that was a great bit of business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gnojek

Pretty sure McGuinness was a free transfer? That one's definitely gone under the radar, as I'd say he's already a first-team regular. I wasn't a fan of MM but that was a great bit of business.

---

I heard 200k (on here)

Ah ok, thanks. Got that wrong. Still a snip at that some sort of money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon1959

I think he has had an illness recently (Covid?). He played in the u23 game against Swansea last week and wasn't back to his sharpest.

Maybe it is just a case of managing a young player, taking him out of the firing line, and giving him time to get back to full fitness?

He will be a major player for us for years to come.

---

Reading between the lines, Kieffer gave him Covid. Jesus it just doesn't end with that guy :furious:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

Reading between the lines, Kieffer gave him Covid. Jesus it just doesn't end with that guy :furious:

---

Yet to see any evidence that says Kieffer didn't invent Covid, the scoundrel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Semantics. It’s plain for all to see Colwills game time has got progressively less under Morison, to the point he’s now not even in the match day squad.

Just what is the point in our own academy if you’re going to loan players from other teams academy’s. Must be soul destroying for these lads.

I hope they get as far away from the club as possible for their own futures.

---

Stay up with imports or go down with our own kids

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Stay up with imports or go down with our own kids

---

I think we will still try to bring the kids through, but as Steve Morison said, they are much more likely to shine being gradually weaned into a side that is playing well, than being expected to bear the brunt of a relegation battle.
he brought Davies on, fairly early on Sunday, and he scored what turned out to be the winning goal, and looked lively. that's won't have done him any harm at all.