Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

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26-02-22, 21:14
Jimmy the Jock

Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

Watch the first 40 minutes . It is eye opening . Scary .... Not quite as cut and dried as we are being led to believe .

Thats my take on it.
26-02-22, 21:15
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Thanks , will have a gander over a cuppa in the morning
26-02-22, 21:35
Armitage Shanks

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

I've been watching Russia today alot over the past few days, they give (obviously) an alternative viewpoint of how's it has come to this
26-02-22, 21:46
Jimmy the Jock

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

I've been watching Russia today alot over the past few days, they give (obviously) an alternative viewpoint of how's it has come to this

This guy is part Russian part American and part French . He seems to be disarmingly honest about the situation.
Perhaps he has his own agenda ?

I like to try and get a 360 degree view , this is a perhaps an alternative view to why we have arrived at this awful point in history.
26-02-22, 21:59
Q

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

This guy is part Russian part American and part French . He seems to be disarmingly honest about the situation.
Perhaps he has his own agenda ?

I like to try and get a 360 degree view , this is a perhaps an alternative view to why we have arrived at this awful point in history.

There’s no such things as a documentary without an agenda. He definitely has one
26-02-22, 22:02
Jimmy the Jock

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q

There’s no such things as a documentary without an agenda. He definitely has one

Did you watch it?
26-02-22, 23:32
NYCBlue

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

I've been watching Russia today alot over the past few days, they give (obviously) an alternative viewpoint of how's it has come to this

Why would you watch a Russian, state-controlled news outlet?
26-02-22, 23:48
life on mars

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

I get sense of Russian love in hear maybe I'm wrong??

Let's remember Ukraine gave up it's Nuclear weapons and now it's people live in terror and are not allowed to join any organisation because uncle Puchface says so . FFS
27-02-22, 09:14
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Some recent history regarding the current situation.

Biden assures Zelenskiy that NATO membership in Ukraine's hands, Kyiv says - 10/12/21

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2021-12-09/

U.S. Officials Repeatedly Urged China to Help Avert War in Ukraine - 25/2/22

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/u...a-ukraine.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20220226...a-ukraine.html
27-02-22, 09:16
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by life on mars

I get sense of Russian love in hear maybe I'm wrong??

Let's remember Ukraine gave up it's Nuclear weapons and now it's people live in terror and are not allowed to join any organisation because uncle Puchface says so . FFS

You need at least two different viewpoints to make sense of any given situation, preferably more.
27-02-22, 10:47
Dorcus

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

You need at least two different viewpoints to make sense of any given situation, preferably more.

Agree
27-02-22, 10:55
SLUDGE FACTORY

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

It was of course slanted but it's interesting

Russia....and the old Soviet Union has seen its buffer states removed

Now those at the top are clearly paranoid but until recently Russia was never an expansionist power

So one can see given the mentality , Russias beef with the west
27-02-22, 12:47
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Russel Brand on Pootin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=595Esg6Mz0U
27-02-22, 14:58
chris lee

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Russel Brand on Pootin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=595Esg6Mz0U

I love the work Brand is doing now on his youtube, tackles some big issues and always has a interesting take.
27-02-22, 15:02
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris lee

I love the work Brand is doing now on his youtube, tackles some big issues and always has a interesting take.

He's undergone quite a transformation.
27-02-22, 18:37
NYCBlue

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It was of course slanted but it's interesting

Russia....and the old Soviet Union has seen its buffer states removed

Now those at the top are clearly paranoid but until recently Russia was never an expansionist power

So one can see given the mentality , Russias beef with the west

You're referring to post-soviet Russia I assume. They've spent 14 of the 30 years since the Soviet Union collapsed engaged in expansionism. And undoubtedly spent some time before that considering it.
27-02-22, 18:41
blue matt

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

It was of course slanted but it's interesting

Russia....and the old Soviet Union has seen its buffer states removed

Now those at the top are clearly paranoid but until recently Russia was never an expansionist power

So one can see given the mentality , Russias beef with the west

Why does Russia need Buffer states though, NATO / The West isn't going to invade
27-02-22, 20:26
Divine Wright

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue matt

Why does Russia need Buffer states though, NATO / The West isn't going to invade

The point he made regarding US/Mexico border is pretty compelling.

The US would freak the fck out if a China/Russia coalition set up camp on their border.

It does beg the question why Nato doesn't make some exemptions with regard whom they allow to join their club.

Couldn't they just have any bordering countries as "partners" (not including Ukraine) who they would only help out in the event there was an actual invasion by Rusia. I.e. "We won't have military bases in these countries, nor will we put troops on the ground if you keep your side of the bargain and never invade these places."
27-02-22, 20:36
Wash DC Blue

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Just watched this lecture after it was recommended to me.

An eye opener for sure and an incredibly accurate prediction of events from 2015.

https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
27-02-22, 21:51
az city

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

Watch the first 40 minutes . It is eye opening . Scary .... Not quite as cut and dried as we are being led to believe .

Thats my take on it.

Thanks for posting the link. It's always worthwhile hearing differing viewpoints.

I've heard his central thesis before that alienating Russia was a bad move. I've also heard the rebuttal that appeasing a country that is essentially a deeply undemocratic kleptocracy is not a better long-run policy choice. Let's remember Russia has pretty much always been a totalitarian state and has had a sociopath as leader for 22 years. I accept we're operating in the realms of counterfactuals here so we should be careful in drawing quick judgements.

Whatever the reason for what got us here, Ukraine deserves its right to self-determination and freedom from tyranny.
27-02-22, 22:02
Q

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Jimmy the Jock;5279456]Did you watch it?[/QUOTE

Yep. It’s a pretty clear agenda
27-02-22, 22:21
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Wright

The point he made regarding US/Mexico border is pretty compelling.

The US would freak the fck out if a China/Russia coalition set up camp on their border.

It does beg the question why Nato doesn't make some exemptions with regard whom they allow to join their club.

Am I missing something here? The idea that Putin wants a buffer between him and NATO countries seems to fall apart if he absorbs Ukraine into Russia cos then they'll be bordering NATO countries anyway. It seems like a simple point; should I get in touch with Moscow?

If he wants the buffer then he'll want a Russia friendly Ukraine a la Belarus but he's not going about that very well.
28-02-22, 10:10
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

I voraciously take in news from many sources (including the foreign press) and I used to work in a role that involved international relations but whatever way you look at it and regardless of many angles on the subject, it's a case of a dictator of a country (where peaceful protest is not allowed) instigation an invasion a democratic and independent soverign state. I've travelled around Ukraine and couchsurfed in the homes of everyday Ukranians and although there is indeed a bit of an ethno-political split in the country the act of aggression by Russia is indefensible.
28-02-22, 12:33
Organ Morgan.

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Any opinions about these photos - https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...t=0&ajaxserp=0

1, Are they fake?
2, They are real but there's an innocent explanation... Putin and the former leaders of China, USA and Canada weren't attending a Masonic shindig but modelling Primark's 2006 mens dressing gown.
3, Who's the woman, Gordon Brown in drag?
28-02-22, 13:34
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

I have no problem with the idea of Putin being an evil dictator as it seems to be that way, but there is also the juxtaposition of him being associated with the World Economic Forum since 1992, where he was a young global leaders alongside Blair, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau, etc.
28-02-22, 13:52
Rjk

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Any opinions about these photos - https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...t=0&ajaxserp=0

1, Are they fake?
2, They are real but there's an innocent explanation... Putin and the former leaders of China, USA and Canada weren't attending a Masonic shindig but modelling Primark's 2006 mens dressing gown.
3, Who's the woman, Gordon Brown in drag?

2 minutes of googling has uncovered that this isn't in fact a masonic grand lodge meeting, bit in fact the final day of the APEC summit in Vietnam in 2006.
it seems the final day of APEC summits there's something of a tradition to wear the traditional dress of the host nation.
28-02-22, 14:48
life on mars

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Not sure if this has been posted .

It appears poor old Ukraine has had it bad since the 9th Century some on here may remember that era ?

https://www.historyextra.com/period/...conflict-facts

Best to start at point 4 when with the collapse of the Russian monarchy in 1917 which bifacially is their start point for independence since then the Rusike's have try to grab it on many occasions this last line below is regrettable and very poignant now :

Is Ukraine going to join Nato?
The aim of joining Nato is now enshrined in the Ukrainian Constitution, and its armed forces are gradually transitioning to Nato standards, but in 2008, the last time that Nato members discussed the idea of Ukraine’s accession.

Germany and France blocked it so as not to provoke Russia. This may change with President Putin’s current gamble.
28-02-22, 14:49
Dorcus

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue matt

Why does Russia need Buffer states though, NATO / The West isn't going to invade

Russians don't believe that. This situation is far more complex than anyone on here could understand. However, the ethical position is that the Ukrainian people deserve to be free. Nothing can vindicate the use of force to subjugate these people.
28-02-22, 15:49
Organ Morgan.

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

I have no problem with the idea of Putin being an evil dictator as it seems to be that way, but there is also the juxtaposition of him being associated with the World Economic Forum since 1992, where he was a young global leaders alongside Blair, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau, etc.

Yes. Putin's one of Schwab's self-confessed graduates is playing the part of an iniquitous villain on the world's stage.

Is this Ukraine thing one big distraction, or is it the set-up to pin the blame on him for causing financial and economic chaos?

Schwab's spoken several times stating a cyber pandemic would prove far more destructive than Covid-19. Putin's forces cutting undersea internet cables would have much the same result because the world has become so dependent on it economies and power grids and banking services would collapse faster than an overcooked soufflé without it.
28-02-22, 15:52
Rjk

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorcus

Russians don't believe that. This situation is far more complex than anyone on here could understand. However, the ethical position is that the Ukrainian people deserve to be free. Nothing can vindicate the use of force to subjugate these people.

Russia's position is the Ukrainian people deserve to be freed from the current government , who they call Nazi's
28-02-22, 18:34
Dorcus

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjk

Russia's position is the Ukrainian people deserve to be freed from the current government , who they call Nazi's

Yes that's the bullshit propaganda they're promulgating as justification. If that were true you would only expect them to annexe the Donbass in the East rather than trying to effect regime change. The real reasons for the invasion have all to do with the balance of power and Putin's ego and legacy wishes.
28-02-22, 18:41
Taunton Blue Genie

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

Watch the first 40 minutes . It is eye opening . Scary .... Not quite as cut and dried as we are being led to believe .

Thats my take on it.

I watched the whole video, including the question and answer session. He's a charming, well-educated man but still comes over as an apologist for Putin, despite his best efforts not to. The man who is responsible for locking up protestors, poisoning opposition figures and for invading a democratic nation is not the victim that the speaker makes out him to be.
01-03-22, 11:20
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

More comment on NATO enroachment from Col Doug MacGregor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1HFCTXamos
01-03-22, 11:43
NYCBlue

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

People are overcomplicating this.

Putin, a former KGB agent and current premier of the Russian Federation is on record as saying that the dissolution of the USSR is the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century. (I can think of at least two that I consider more "tragic") He is a de facto dictator, he controls the press, he remains in power due to sham elections and of course, he has been known to eliminate opposition. Now he has to try to maintain this grip on power with a "sister country" right on his doorstep that has a democratically elected government, a free press and an enlightened electorate. Must be a pain in the arse. Putin chooses to see peace, freedom and democracy as a threat. He has brought war to central Europe as a result. No matter what happens in Ukraine in the short term, he's played himself. This will not end well for him.
01-03-22, 11:56
the other bob wilson

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I watched the whole video, including the question and answer session. He's a charming, well-educated man but still comes over as an apologist for Putin, despite his best efforts not to. The man who is responsible for locking up protestors, poisoning opposition figures and for invading a democratic nation is not the victim that the speaker makes out him to be.

And for all the conspiracy theorist stuff from those who think they’re cleverer than the rest of us, this is the one thing more than anything else which should never be forgotten - Putin is a psychopath.
01-03-22, 12:03
life on mars

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Any opinions about these photos - https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...t=0&ajaxserp=0

1, Are they fake?
2, They are real but there's an innocent explanation... Putin and the former leaders of China, USA and Canada weren't attending a Masonic shindig but modelling Primark's 2006 mens dressing gown.
3, Who's the woman, Gordon Brown in drag?

Its alleged Gordon has Russian connections , not sure about his dressing up habits or gowns ??

Other Scottish ex Russian TV presenters have been seen in second hand Burton suits??
01-03-22, 12:11
Dorcus

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by life on mars

Its alleged Gordon has Russian connections , not sure about his dressing up habits or gowns ??

Other Scottish ex Russian TV presenters have been seen in second hand Burton suits??

Gordon Brownski? Was he in the Brownski Beat?
01-03-22, 12:40
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCBlue

People are overcomplicating this.

Putin, a former KGB agent and current premier of the Russian Federation is on record as saying that the dissolution of the USSR is the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century. (I can think of at least two that I consider more "tragic") He is a de facto dictator, he controls the press, he remains in power due to sham elections and of course, he has been known to eliminate opposition. Now he has to try to maintain this grip on power with a "sister country" right on his doorstep that has a democratically elected government, a free press and an enlightened electorate. Must be a pain in the arse. Putin chooses to see peace, freedom and democracy as a threat. He has brought war to central Europe as a result. No matter what happens in Ukraine in the short term, he's played himself. This will not end well for him.

That's how it appears at first glance, but there are some nuances in play. The west know his trigger points, and could be taking advantage of his self-declared line in the sand. There is also his cosy 30 year relationship with the WEF. I think we have to wait and see how it plays out, because all we have at the moment are competing narratives.
01-03-22, 17:26
Wales-Bales

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

Watch the first 40 minutes . It is eye opening . Scary .... Not quite as cut and dried as we are being led to believe .

Thats my take on it.

This may be of interest regarding the video you posted.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-b...on-transitions
01-03-22, 17:59
stan butler

Re: Do you want to learn a bit about the history of why things have gone wrong in Ukraine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

This may be of interest regarding the video you posted.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-b...on-transitions

Putin with a bomber jacket on :hehe:

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