For some reason, I find this story brings home what an absolute disgrace the whole thing was more than any other I've read.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62594529
Printable View
For some reason, I find this story brings home what an absolute disgrace the whole thing was more than any other I've read.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62594529
Absolutely disgraceful affair, makes me embarrassed to be a Cardiff fan to be honest.
Why, we didn’t organise this flight. David Henderson, Willie McKay & David Ibbotson are to blame for this. If you know that a vehicle you are going to travel in is not roadworthy, would you still go ahead?Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDERHILL1927
Wasn’t the flight that we organised refused?Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDERHILL1927
Apart from the withholding of payment probably advised by their lawyers, what have Cardiff city actually done wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDERHILL1927
Used a discredited, dodgy agent, cocked up the player's registration and stories like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...ealed-14019857
have to raise the possibility that they were aware of the sort of planes McKay was capable of hiring for cross channel journeys.
I don't think there's too much wrong with Cardiff seeking legal clarification on the status of the transfer fee either, in what was a pretty unique occurrence. Being portrayed in the press as us refusing to pay, or withholding payment, made us look like the bad guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
Maybe I’m being thick but how is Sala’s choice of agent Cardiff City’s faultQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Well we have pretty much refused to pay haven't we?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bloop
I get the impression that McKay was more employed by Nantes than Sala personally, although that's something we'll probably never know for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
The whole thing is truly sickening.
The majority of the blame has to lie with Henderson, the man running unlicensed flights with a plane he knew to be dodgy, and a pilot that even the owner had asked him never to use.
He's possibly already out of prison, despite effectively sending this young lad to his grave.
McKay should definitely have shouldered some of the blame too, he knew damn well what kind of cowboy operation he was using.
What's even more frightening is that such flights are seemingly being allowed on a much greater and more regular basis.
The aviation industry itself clearly has a lot to answer for in that respect too. Some of these flights should never be allowed to begin with by the sounds of it.
McKay was not Sala's agent or at least he wasn't until we became interested in him. That Daily Mirror story tells of how Warnock and Blackwell went over to France to watch a couple of Marseille players in a game with Nantes and ended up being more impressed by Sala - McKay and his son travelled with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
Until the legal aspect had been decided, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger
I feel exactly the same Bob. I'm say here feeling quite angry and upset having read thisQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I'd love to know the full extent of Warnock relationship with mckay including how did his two sons get contracts with us as footballers? I don't think I have ever seen someone explain the history to that particular dealQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
We've made some weird deals before but that one is way off the charts for me
Mark McKay was given the mandate to sell Sala by Nantes.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Half hour BBC video of the story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-emiliano-sala
And the comments
Audio of a telephone call to a fellow pilot has been exclusively obtained by the BBC, revealing for the first time the technical difficulties Mr Ibbotson had on the journey to France.
In it, he says he heard "a bang" during the flight and complained that he could feel a "very low mist" inside the 35-year-old Piper Malibu plane.
"I'm mid-Channel and 'bang'," Mr Ibbotson told friend, Kevin Jones, about his flight to Nantes.
In audio obtained by the BBC, pilot David Ibbotson revealed the plane he was taking Sala to Cardiff on was "dodgy".
"I'm flying along and then 'boom'. I thought, 'what's wrong?' So I put everything forward and checked my parameters, everything was good and it was still flying, but it got your attention."
He added: "That Malibu, occasionally you've got like a mist every so often. You can feel it, very, very low throughout the airframe."
Mr Ibbotson, 59, said he also realised the Piper Malibu's left brake pedal wasn't working after landing at Nantes Atlantique Airport. "This aircraft has got to go back in the hangar," he told his friend.
The conversation was accidentally recorded and has since been obtained by the BBC's Transfer: The Emiliano Sala Story podcast.
Going through security at Nantes Airport is the only time Emiliano Sala is seen with pilot David Ibbotson
Ahead of the flight back to Cardiff, Mr Ibbotson added: "Normally I'd have my life jacket between my seats but tomorrow I'll be wearing my life jacket."
The only two people on the plane were Emiliano Sala and Mr Ibbotson, from Crowle, in North Lincolnshire, whose body has never been found.
Totally agree they turned a blind eye to the potential danger, just like a drunk driver seven, eight, nine pints a night a quick drive home, i've done it before i'll be fine, until they kill someone!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbluejay
There was, we should have had a policy in place where they only travel in commercial planes or where the alternative flight has been agreed and the company vetted, but it's easy to be wise after the event.Quote:
Originally Posted by splott parker
these are the older generation, the newer / younger pilots are trying to move away from this " grey area " of no commercial / paid flightsQuote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
I dont know about anything else but you should be embarrassed with your post. City offered Sala a commercial flight and it was turned down because he wanted to stay in Nantes a bit longer to say goodbye to his friends. Sala chose to get on the plane, even though he obviously wasn't happy with it. The flight was arranged through third parties and was nothing to do with the club. What part of all this don't you understand ?Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDERHILL1927
The BBC version of events differs from that, and overall seems more balanced, they say that Sala was offered a commercial flight, but that Sala wanted more time in Nantes to see his friends so went with Henderson's offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
And his father was heavily involved in the deal even though he wasn`t allowed to under football rules as he had been banned from being a licenced intermediary (still is) and therefore not allowed to be involved in any manner whatsoever in football transfers. Neil Warnock knew this as he had known Willie McKay for several years and done transfer deals with him at other clubs he managed , but still he dealt with him, shared flights with him, had meetings with him etc. The directors of CCFC must also have known this about McKay (it takes a few minutes research to check) but still allowed Warnock to deal with him and signed off playing contracts with two of McKay`s sons. The directors have never explained why they did so , even when specifically questionned about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbluejay
CCFC is in no way responsible for the tragic fatal plane crash or in its organisation but should never have got involved in the deal in the first place knowing who was brokering it.
The third highest goal scoring Striker in France becomes avaiable (at that time in that season, Mbappe and Naymar were 1st and 2nd) we need a striker and we shouldn't buy him because we don't like the agent, get real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninian1962
No one was worried about what agents all the Strikers recently linked were using, it's not even a consideration only the cost to the club.
I think it's reasonable to assume that someone at City knew what the alternative to a commercial flight might entail. It's hardly as if McKay was unknown to certain people at the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
yet another take on this. Hard to see how we can come out of this unscathed...Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
https://nation.cymru/sport/emiliano-sala-dodgy-plane/
You are right regarding such a policy being required in such circumstances but I don't think it's a case of being wise after the event. Even low-ranking civil servants are encouraged to take cheaper flights are neither expected nor permitted to use non-approved airlines. In the case of footballers, their value can be astronomical as we know - and it makes sense for clubs to protect such assets above and beyond simply caring for their employees on a human level.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
It sounds like you are trying your hardest to find a way to blame the club for the kids death.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Don't really agree with you here Bob, I think it's more reasonable to assume that the club presumed that whoever was organizing the alternative would organize a safe and legal journey. It's not like putting him in a car which hasn't passed its MOT or even with a driver that's only recently passed their testQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I think any non-pilot would assume that no pilot would get into a plane that they didn't feel was airworthy, I certainly did until I heard that recording just now. And it would never have crossed my mind before this incident that an inexperienced pilot would wing it (excuse the wording) in conditions he wasn't qualified to fly in at night over the sea.
Let's say the incident didn't happen at sea and when the plane landed Sala got in a taxi arranged by an agent's representative. Would the club have any responsibility if the taxi was unroadworthy and the driver had no licence and crashed with tragic consequences? Of course not. I understand why people want to blame the club for associating with a less than responsible agent and the employment of his family members does sound odd. But I cannot see that the club has the main responsibility for what was a tragic accident especially as the decision to take the flight (and not the scheduled flight offered by the club) was a matter between McKay, Henderson and Sala himself. I presume the club was told to withhold payment by their insurance company assuming that is that insurance was in place.
I certainly wouldn't fly an aircraft if I suspected there was a technical issue. The pilots ratings had nothing to do with the crash, it was carbon monoxide poisoning. Ibbotson had a night rating but it wasn't current. Saying that, you wouldn't fly a single engine aircraft across water, you wouldn't fly a single engine aircraft across water at night, and you wouldn't fly a single engine aircraft across water, at night, in bad weather. And you most certainly wouldn't fly at night, in bad weather, in a single engine aircraft if you thought the aircraft was tech.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
We don't need an unnecessary analogy with taxis. The risks are not comparable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Clubs should require their players only using approved airlines and flight companies.
No, it sounds like I think it’s reasonable to assume that someone at the club knew what the alternative to the flight that they offered might entail. I’m not saying that they knew it would involve a potential death trap, but that it would point to a particular type of plane being used and, if it were me, I wouldn’t have been too happy with a newly recruited club record signing travelling in that way - better to have Sala stay overnight in Nantes and catch a commercial plane the following day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
- better to have Sala stay overnight in Nantes and catch a commercial plane the following day.
Surely that's what the club had in mind when it offered a commercial flight. But as soon as Sala expressed his preferences and Ibbotson and Co took over the matter was taken out of the club's hands. I agree the plane was unsuitable but I don't think it had any say in the matter.
You’d have thought HIS agent would have sorted that out a bit better for him, maybe Sala should have declined to get in the plane especially with a dodgy weather forecast in the channel. He didn’t, McKay didn’t give a dam, all he wanted was the cheque as he stated at the time. Of course, it’s all ccfc fault though:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
My understanding is that Sala didn’t catch the commercial flight because he wanted to meet up with friends in Nantes - of course, I’m saying this with the benefit of hindsight, but he could have done that and still come back on a commercial flight, I’m trying to recall our programme of fixtures then and I don’t believe we were due to play until the following weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
I didn't assign fault. I merely suggested good practice that is already in situ with some employers.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
My recollection of the story that emerged after the events is that Sala didn't take the commercial flight because he wanted to return to Cardiff in time for the squad's first training session after the Newcastle game that was played on 19th January. The following weekend was the fourth round of the FA Cup and we were knocked out in the third round. Our next match was against Arsenal on 29th January.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
McKay wasn’t working for Cardiff or for Sala - he was working for Nantes (via his son Mark).Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
We shouldn`t have bought Sala becauseQuote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
1. we shouldn`t have been involved in a breach of FIFA rules in dealing in any way with Willie McKay
2. the transfer fee was way too high. Mehmet Dalman himself said that both he and Ken Choo were against signing him because the transfer fee was considered by them to be far too high
Despite the above, the deal still happened. What has never been properly explained by the directors is why.
We involved with his Son the agent, Football is a murky World you deal with agents or don't get the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninian1962