Printable View
Well I expect that if BoJo refused to aplogise for any islamophobia which happened and insisted that it had never happened, they would say that. It's not comparable because any other party from the Greens to Cornish Nationalists would deal with racism if and when it occurred in that party.
A lot of labour people want Corbyn to do that and labour mp's have resigned over it, but he won't !
That's the problem
And to add to your comments and reasoning one should consider the list below , and this is not right wing media driven inicdents :Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
13 MP'S have left the party.
Some have had to have protection and been insulted.
Panorama actually interviewed staff workers.
The ex deputy leader admitted it has antisemitism issues.
Mcdonald states he recognises the issue.
Head Rabbi who never speaks raises fears.
Human Rights Commission investigates.
Met Police invesigates.
130 plus party activists investigation's.
Party suspensions.
Real social media antisemtism ouorings from Labour party workers , MP's , councillors, and activists.
The real truth is about the issue being allowed to fester on the current leader watch , and one should strip away ones political leaning and think hard , and ask the reason why, they have had 3 years to fix this .
Very well put
The 'wrong type of Jews' denouncing the Chief Rabbi's letter:
https://www.thecanary.co/opinion/201...nstream-media/
And Jenny Formby's response to the Chief Rabbi's letter in Jewish News:
https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com...why-hes-wrong/
You won't give it up Jon. Of course you can find contrary opinions in anything, but the case seems proven in the minds of a vast majority of people so I don't know what you can achieve by refusing to accept it.
This portrayal of the least racist mainstream British politician as the great racist will either go down in the history of black propaganda as a fantastic achievement or it will backfire and some people will begin to ask themselves if these lies are accepted as truth then what other lies have we been told.
Good post David and so trueQuote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Does any of that matter ?
The point in the real world is that the damage has been done and that's his fault entirely because he refused to apologise and minimised investigations. We can argue for 100 years whether he's an anti Semite or a victim, but the fact of the matter is that he's a crap politician because he couldn't handle the situation.
Your last bit there interests me - do you generally believe what politicians and government tell you then ?
Trust me, you've been told lots and lots and lots of lies
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Vincent
Here's another least racist ever labour candidate
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9221446.html
https://twitter.com/CorbynistaTeen/s...28790969098240
Miriam Margolyes speaks.
She's a contraversial and eccentric person you know , but obviously you can find " Uncle Tom " characters to vindicate labour
Is she the wrong type of Jew then Ronnie ?, is Bercow the wrong kind ?, is Chomsky the wrong kind also ?
Is the Rabbi the right one or you calling him out , why are Labour supporters in such denial ,its okay to see fault from within one, family ,belief and surroundings , in fact its healthy and makes you a better person ?Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
I saw a documentary with Miriam and I did wonder about her sanity .Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
If that's the case, I'd say you could benefit from following your own advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Many of us wonder about other people's sanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
You have nothing to worry about with Miriam though - she is very sane, very articulate, and right in what she says.
Do you think her insane for being the "wrong" type of Jew?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
I don't know why I keep getting asked about "the wrong type of Jew " because it's not an expression I've ever used.
What LOM has said about MM is quite correct frankly - I'd wrapped it up a bit.
Bercow is not someone I like much and I regard Chomsky as quite evil, but what any of this has got to do with the subject isn't clear .
"No man escapes when Freedom fails,
The best men rot in filthy jails,
And those who cried 'appease..appease,
Are hanged by those they tried to please"
Corbyn and Labour are not new as an historical archetype, and nor are those who don't realise how evil they are until it's too late.
I would guess you get asked because Chomsky, Bercow and Margolyes are all prominent Jews and they say Corbyn is not an anti-Semite and he is the leader of the Labour party so its relevant to the thread yet you denigrate those prominent Jews, one of which is seen as the number one intellect in the World and one was the speaker in Parliament in one of the most powerful countries in the entire World, I have also given you prominent British Jewish professors and I have given you British Jewish doctors who support Corbyn and Labour and don't think Corbyn is an anti-Semite on this thread but you dismiss all their views so its not surprising that you get asked if those people are the ''wrong'' type of Jews.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
Are you Jewish yourself RonnieBird or are you not prepared to say for some obscure reason ?
I've asked him this question several times but he refuses to answer. I'd like to know because I'd like to try to understand what drives this unhealthy obsession of his and to see if he could be helped. I hope he's not ashamed to declare his ethnicity because there have been some wonderful Jewish people down the ages who have pronounced upon world affairs with both alacrity and dignity. You have listed some of those yourself and of course Karl Marx, inter alia, should also be mentioned. The Jewish people, similar to other disaffected groups in world history, have suffered such misery they should always deserve our respectQuote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
What if I am ?
What if I'm black ? Does that make a difference ?
You work it out for yourself Trampie, because whether I'm Jewish, black or Chinese, I'm a human being and I don't have to apologise to anyone for my racial origins.
"Freedom is such a contrary beast
It's craved by those whose solitary aim
Is to deny it to those who have the least
The better to exploit for fortune and fame'
Because you go on about anti-Semitism all the time it makes one wonder what is your beef ?, there are other forms of racism that you hardly mention. I have been reading about Jews pleading with non Jews to stop accusing people of anti Semitism in cases when its debatable if there is any anti Semitism at all as its causing a divide when people are getting falsely labelled and as a result it is apparently making some Jews fearful, because innocent people around them are getting wrongly labelled and this could cause a rift between Jews and falsely labelled non Jews, so that is one issue if you are a non Jew Ronnie.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
But if you are a Jew Ronnie then there are different Jewish sects and perhaps Jews that you personally criticise on here belong to a different sect to you, so its reasonable to ask if you are Jewish or not so posters on here can better understand what your issue is, but if for some strange reason you would rather not answer then that is up to you.
Sects you say ! That sounds very barbaric and dangerous - what do you think they're up to in their sect meetings ? Secretly running the world or maybe human sacrifice ?
There are different denominations just as there are in Christianity, but surprisingly most Jewish people aren't in sects. There are some extreme Jewish sects of course just as there are some extreme Christian sects and there are Jewish people who are atheists.
What if I asked you which Christian sect you were in ?
Since you're keeping records of the different types of Jews you might encounter , there are liberal / socialist Jews, just as there are liberal / socialist members of most other races, and they tend to be aetheists or at least not keep their traditions - bit like all other socialists I expect and even they don't deserve to be considered differently from other citizens. I'd guess that most of those defending labour are socialist Jews who, like socialist Christians seem to regard their politics as an alternative to a religion.
I really don't think you're anything like the impression you're giving Trampie. I rarely agree with you about anything, but I don't sense any deliberate racism of the sort which comes from some others here. I just think you don't understand some stuff and probably haven't met that many Jews, who are really not that different to you.
I say you haven't met that many Jews but you've probably met far more than you know because actually they don't all go around wearing kippahs and black suits , speaking with strange accents from no known language or trying to lend you money at high interests. Your postman could be Jewish. Hey , did you even know there are black Jews ?
Oh I see Ronnie you do not want to answer but as a result of not answering its difficult for anybody including myself to take you seriously, I like to think I've made some salient points on this thread in my posts but most of the time you totally ignore the points I've raised and you will often respond by going off on different tangents to the points I've raised I can only assume you have no answer to the points I've raised and therefore I think you are trolling this board on this subject.
I'd say the same about the points I've made, but please tell me which points I haven't addressed and I will.
Can you not understand why people find the question " Are you a Jew ?" when it's not relevant just a BIT offensive after what happened in the not too distant past ?
A Jew is entitled to an opinion just as much as anyone else , and whilst I believe you honestly can't see this, it's a horrible concept that we view the values of a person's opinion through a racial prism.
You keep telling me " this Jew says so and so" , but quite properly we don't enquire into your race or anyone else's before evaluating their words
I think people might well view you as an anti-Semitic Ronnie, you say Margolyes is eccentric, you say that Bercow is someone you don't like [without giving a reason] and you say you regard Chomsky as quite evil and that's just the last few posts you have made.
I'm anti Semitic ?
A very dishonest thing to say Trampie. It's not of course anti Semitic to disagree with or dislike individuals who are Jewish - the important thing there being INDIVIDUALS.
You're just being silly now , but it's very worrying that you'd apparently say anything to support your favoured politicians , even if that's to ignore anti semitism and try to blame the victims.
Maybe you don't understand how serious the subject is.
When responding to a post about a Jewish person Ronnie you refer to 'Uncle Tom' type characters and that is a derogatory term based on race, making a case for liking some people and not liking masses of other people does not wash or stand up to scrutiny as regards being anti-Semitic, are you saying that Corbyn and other accused Labour members don't like any Jewish people at all ?, therefore Corbyn et al cant be accused by you if they like just one Jewish person according to your logic.
You are digging a hole for yourself Ronnie as regards anti-Semitism and your case against Labour.
Only in you're opinion and perhaps that of two or three anti Semites in this thread. The balance of public opinion and the majority of Jews has swung in the opposite direction, which seems clear.
Uncle Tom isn't derogatory to a man's race but very widely applied to black people who pander to racists.
"Uncle Tom is the title character of Harriet Beecher Stowe's 1852 novel, Uncle Tom's Cabin. The term "Uncle Tom" is also used as a derogatory epithet for an exceedingly subservient person, particularly when that person is aware of their own lower-class status based on race." Wiki
The character was accepting toward slavery and defended the "white folk" who bought and sold him.
This is a very common term in the world at large Trampie and I don't think anyone else regards it as racist.
Your point about how you can't be accused of being anti Semitic if you like one Jewish person , "according to my logic" , is a bit confused and self defeating.
I think perhaps you're not old enough to remember the civil rights movement or apartheid, because you don't seem to know that you're putting forward all the old arguments which were used to justify racism against black people in the sixties.
You made a post in response to a post about Jewish lady Miriam Margolyes where you used the phrase Uncle Tom as well as words like eccentric, you are quick to label people but anyone reading this thread might well label you due to the things you say about some Jewish people and the derogatory terms you use to do with race.
Might they ?
They certainly might looking at your posts Ronnie.
I don't want to be rude Trampie, because you're obviously a kid, but it's very hard indeed to engage you in a sensible discussion. I've tried to encourage you to express yourself and think a bit but you're not getting it at the moment
Why is the refereference 'Ju Ju ' offensive, I note it was used against an ex Labour MP by a brave social media , union bully boyQuote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
JuJu is a West African religion. I'm not sure anyone regards it as particularly offensive. But you're absolutely right about union people, they're looking after all of us and they have been very courageous throughout their history. Well done on you for pointing this out!Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Somebody that has obviously got more years behind them than ahead of them is hardly a kid Ronnie, you have an issue with facts and I deal in facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
What ? Seriously , I thought you were about 17 or 18 and trying to join in.
How do you define a fact by the way ?