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Re: European Super League imminent?
"IF YOU LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY, YOU WILL HEAR THE GODS LAUGHING"
This is, I think a very apt quote from a film
The film title is, in a way quite apt too
Question for you. What film is it
(try not to just type the quote into Google - that makes it far too easy, it's not that hard anyway)
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Re: European Super League imminent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
Obviously the football authorities love to place financial penalties on players and managers for bringing the game into disrepute so what’s good for the goose as they say.
They absolutely should be punished. I'd genuinely like to see them not re-admitted to domestic and european competitions until ownership is changed to a fan ownership model. But I am sure that would be legally impossible as you'd effectively be stripping value from the shareholders and that isn't really fair; and it is even worse for fans than what happened to Rangers as they have nothing to watch at all.
Or we could have a points deduction - say 30 points for the EPL clubs. But I'd argue that this devalues the leagues even more than not having them there at all. It would openly be a farce: Man City could "earn" 90 points but finish mid-table on 60 because of the penalties.
Block access to the ECL? That sounds more like it but is hardly going to hurt Spurs, Arsenal or even Liverpool is it? Although blocking it for 3 years would make sense. My fear is UEFA seem to have had their belly tickled by last night's news and the vitriol and desire for retribution and punishment seems to have dissipated.
So actually I think the best penalty could actually be something that isn't dressed up as a penalty at all. Government are going to look at the way football works, and have made clear that notwithstanding the death of the ESL, they will be looking at ownership models and fairness. Anything they do to level the playing field will be devastating for these "super clubs" because it will increase the risk they don't get access to the money they need to keep the kite flying.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
The six English clubs involved have shown their true colours, so the damage to their reputations has been done.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin said the six English clubs were "back in the fold", adding: "The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together."
I think these clubs may get away with trying it.
Is there some sort of amnesty for those involved in coup attempts in 2021?
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Re: European Super League imminent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Optimistic Nick
Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin said the six English clubs were "back in the fold", adding: "The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together."
I think these clubs may get away with trying it.
Is there some sort of amnesty for those involved in coup attempts in 2021?
One thing we have learnt in 2021 is if you need a coup doing, don't ask an American.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
Optimistic Nick
Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin said the six English clubs were "back in the fold", adding: "The important thing now is that we move on, rebuild the unity that the game enjoyed before this and move forward together."
I think these clubs may get away with trying it.
Is there some sort of amnesty for those involved in coup attempts in 2021?
They're gonna get away with it. They should all be fined, docked points and banned from Europe for a few years but it won't happen
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
City123
They're gonna get away with it. They should all be fined, docked points and banned from Europe for a few years but it won't happen
Will definitely not happen.
The backlash of a huge number of fans should herald UEFA, FIFA and the league associations to address and reform how football operates as a whole.
But pretty sure they are just happy to continue to bleed the existing cash cow.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
Freitag 4.17
One thing we have learnt in 2021 is if you need a coup doing, don't ask an American.
:hehe:
That is the other thing that is really apparent here.
Football, financially, is not a big business. Everyone likes to think it is, but it isn't. It's small beer really. Real Madrid's turnover for example is under the EUR750m thresshold above which a business is considered large or medium-sized for many things.
Emotionally they are very significant, and the wider public interest means these clubs are very important, but financially even these super clubs are relatively small businesses, run, on the whole, by idiots. What we've just seen is the leaders of the biggest clubs displaying not only an incredible level of arrogance and greed, but also a truly astonishing lack of intelligence. It sounds like something dreamt up in a pub. The lack of planning and preparedness is proof alone that these people really shouldn't be allowed to drive motor vehicles, never mind run a football club.
Absolute clowns, the lot of them. Monumentally and dangerously stupid men.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
Inter and Atletico have backed out now.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
apparently uefa are now coming under pressure to review the "highest coefficient qualifiers" in the forthcoming rule changes to come in in 2024.
if they were in place this season it would likely mean that Liverpool and Chelsea would get champions League football even if they didn't qualify .
now their excess greed looks like it may **** that up for them
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Re: European Super League imminent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Optimistic Nick
:hehe:
That is the other thing that is really apparent here.
Football, financially, is not a big business. Everyone likes to think it is, but it isn't. It's small beer really. Real Madrid's turnover for example is under the EUR750m thresshold above which a business is considered large or medium-sized for many things.
Emotionally they are very significant, and the wider public interest means these clubs are very important, but financially even these super clubs are relatively small businesses, run, on the whole, by idiots. What we've just seen is the leaders of the biggest clubs displaying not only an incredible level of arrogance and greed, but also a truly astonishing lack of intelligence. It sounds like something dreamt up in a pub. The lack of planning and preparedness is proof alone that these people really shouldn't be allowed to drive motor vehicles, never mind run a football club.
Absolute clowns, the lot of them. Monumentally and dangerously stupid men.
It always baffles me that football is referred to as "big business" by the press, its miles off
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
City123
It always baffles me that football is referred to as "big business" by the press, its miles off
the top clubs aren't small, some have net worth of 4bn + , employees in the thousands etc.
yes they aren't a huge multinational, but they certainly aren't a small business.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
The six English clubs involved have shown their true colours, so the damage to their reputations has been done.
What reputations? I don't think it's made a blind bit of difference personally. Everyone knows that they're in it for the money and until now not a lot of people cared
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Re: European Super League imminent?
I'm surprised Barcelona haven't officially pulled out and issued an apology yet.
Juve and Real are a different matter. Homes of the conspirators in chief!
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
the top clubs aren't small, some have net worth of 4bn + , employees in the thousands etc.
yes they aren't a huge multinational, but they certainly aren't a small business.
UEFA's media rights revenues are also about $4bn per annum. Not exactly a drop in the ocean.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
jon1959
I'm surprised Barcelona haven't officially pulled out and issued an apology yet.
Juve and Real are a different matter. Homes of the conspirators in chief!
Barcelona are in serious shit debt wise (as are Real and Milan), I think for them, this was a last desperate attempt to keep on living in the fashion to which they have become accustomed. Unless another scheme emerges, they are very soon going to have to face the cold hard reality of living within their means. I suggest a few seasons of Russel Slade to clear out the big earners and start afresh.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Barcelona are in serious shit debt wise (as are Real and Milan), I think for them, this was a last desperate attempt to keep on living in the fashion to which they have become accustomed. Unless another scheme emerges, they are very soon going to have to face the cold hard reality of living within their means. I suggest a few seasons of Russel Slade to clear out the big earners and start afresh.
Russ El Slade....I like it:hehe:
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Re: European Super League imminent?
This is important, as we are in danger of falling back on a 'new version' of the Champions League, that isn't that far away from what the ESL was suggesting. Qualification for big clubs who didn't make it the proper way, seems like a closed shop to me.
I did think for a while that the ESL was just a smokescreen. Big fuss over ESL, gradually calms down, UEFA steps in, everyone breathes a sigh of relief that football has been saved, and meanwhile the big clubs get exactly what they were after in the first place - perpetual and unopposed qualification.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Re: European Super League imminent?
Perez thinks it isn't over yet, it's merely "on standby"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56842442
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
bobh
I was thinking what happens now? To hear Pep talking last night you’d think things were now back to normal and things can carry on as before - I hope not and I think not. Florentino Perez certainly doesn’t think so and I bet those men who made grovelling apologies in the last couple of days to the “legacy fans” they were prepared to ride roughshod over on Sunday don’t either.
I think back to the punishment meted out to Wigan last season because of the actions of people who saw that club as merely a money making exercise and struggle to see a difference between that and what those who
were both stupid and arrogant enough to not see that their declaration that they were dropping everyone else in it to go off and form their own free from relegation megabucks competition while also declaring that they will carry on in their domestic leagues would not be accepted as some sort of fait accompli did -these people need to be driven out of football,
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I was thinking what happens now? To hear Pep talking last night you’d think things were now back to normal and things can carry on as before - I hope not and I think not. Florentino Perez certainly doesn’t think so and I bet those men who made grovelling apologies in the last couple of days to the “legacy fans” they were prepared to ride roughshod over on Sunday don’t either.
I think back to the punishment meted out to Wigan last season because of the actions of people who saw that club as merely a money making exercise and struggle to see a difference between that and what those who
were both stupid and arrogant enough to not see that their declaration that they were dropping everyone else in it to go off and form their own free from relegation megabucks competition while also declaring that they will carry on in their domestic leagues would not be accepted as some sort of fait accompli did -these people need to be driven out of football,
yes, this must not be a learning opportunity for the elite clubs to realise what they did wrong and come back in a few years having addressed that.
the governing body have to take steps to completely kill the idea here and now.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I was thinking what happens now? To hear Pep talking last night you’d think things were now back to normal and things can carry on as before - I hope not and I think not. Florentino Perez certainly doesn’t think so and I bet those men who made grovelling apologies in the last couple of days to the “legacy fans” they were prepared to ride roughshod over on Sunday don’t either.
I think back to the punishment meted out to Wigan last season because of the actions of people who saw that club as merely a money making exercise and struggle to see a difference between that and what those who
were both stupid and arrogant enough to not see that their declaration that they were dropping everyone else in it to go off and form their own free from relegation megabucks competition while also declaring that they will carry on in their domestic leagues would not be accepted as some sort of fait accompli did -these people need to be driven out of football,
I think it's quite simple, punish our clubs - 20 point deduction would make next seasons PL an absolute cracker. Let RM, Barca, Juve crack on with whatever shit they're up to - if it gets off the ground and is successful I think it would be something far removed form football, you've got the Juve president banging on about Fortnite and such.. I don't see them attracting much support to some second rate mediterranean friendly tournament unless they completely re-invent the game - then they wouldn't be footballs concern.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
It's difficult to imagine the six starting the season on negative points but if not then they're asking for it all to happen again one day.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
I doubt anything will happen to the clubs in the form of deducting points or fines. Morally I think everyone wants to chase the owners out of town as angry mobs but technically and legally now all the clubs have retracted, I think the prem will serve some sort of minor slap on the wrists, remind them of the rule book and have a "don't do this again" finger waving conversation like school teachers.
There will be big enquiries within the premier league and Uefa however, trust has been flushed down the toilet so expect regulators now to be brought in accross football.
Big changes ahead which everyone has said is needed for years, so if anything this will accelerate it now and FIFA and UEFA need to address major issues within. Financial fair play is a joke for a start. Going to be an interesting few months and years.
On another note I can totally understand fans of the clubs reactions, we have been crapped on before by owners.
However them all asking for these owners to get out and move on is ludicrous and probably hot headed without thinking.
The owners own all major stock worth billions. Unless the owner of Amazon, Microsoft or the royal family of Brunei plan to buy that stock and control, unfortunately they are stuck with those owners for a very long time.
And before this, Glazers and Kroenke aside, the liverpool, spurs, man city and chelsea fans absolutely loved their owners and investments they have produced.
They need to be careful what they wish for as these owners most probably have the power to turn out the lights. They have admitted they dropped a major bollock, they need to work on fan relationships now. Those 4 clubs have had massive investment, none in the red financially.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
Amazing words from Perez. Every sentence is devoid from reality.
https://www.theguardian.com/football...-far-from-dead
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Re: European Super League imminent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I was thinking what happens now? To hear Pep talking last night you’d think things were now back to normal and things can carry on as before - I hope not and I think not. Florentino Perez certainly doesn’t think so and I bet those men who made grovelling apologies in the last couple of days to the “legacy fans” they were prepared to ride roughshod over on Sunday don’t either.
I think back to the punishment meted out to Wigan last season because of the actions of people who saw that club as merely a money making exercise and struggle to see a difference between that and what those who
were both stupid and arrogant enough to not see that their declaration that they were dropping everyone else in it to go off and form their own free from relegation megabucks competition while also declaring that they will carry on in their domestic leagues would not be accepted as some sort of fait accompli did -these people need to be driven out of football,
This is precisely what I think. Nobody said "Oh but you're only punishing the fans" when the likes of Wigan and Portsmouth were punished for their owners actions. The same should apply here. Points deductions and bans from Europe please.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
the whole exercise was a classic example of a failure of project management.
they didn't engage their key stakeholders:
fans, players and the governing body.
with some ground work and a few concessions they could probably have won enough of each of those groups over to get this through.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
lardy
it's often said that Manchester city's ownership is for "geopolitical reasons" so getting involved in something as deeply unpopular as this would be completely contrary to the entire point of it. of course if It happened they wouldn't want. to be left out in the cold, Im not surprised they weren't keen.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
lardy
I didn't understand why they kept sending Perez forward as spokesperson, everything he says is utterly ridiculous
“The owners are mostly not English. They’re not in it to make money, they have teams in America, love sport and they found themselves in a position they didn’t expect. They’re old, they got scared,” :hehe: :hehe:
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
City123
I didn't understand why they kept sending Perez forward as spokesperson, everything he says is utterly ridiculous
yep he's completely not suited to being the spokesman for a major new "product".
can you imagine when Disney+ was launched they had someone like Perez slagging off Netflix and Amazon prime
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
City123
I didn't understand why they kept sending Perez forward as spokesperson, everything he says is utterly ridiculous
“The owners are mostly not English. They’re not in it to make money, they have teams in America, love sport and they found themselves in a position they didn’t expect. They’re old, they got scared,” :hehe: :hehe:
My favourite bit was that all the clubs in the leagues make money except for Real, Barca, Atletico and the English six.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
lardy
My favourite bit was that all the clubs in the leagues make money except for Real, Barca, Atletico and the English six.
the obvious answer then would be for the big clubs to trim their budgets and start acting like the smaller clubs.
yes the top players would be paid less, but it's not as though Ronaldo or Messi is going to pack it all in and retrain as a plumber or something
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
the obvious answer then would be for the big clubs to trim their budgets and start acting like the smaller clubs.
yes the top players would be paid less, but it's not as though Ronaldo or Messi is going to pack it all in and retrain as a plumber or something
This really is the key.
Why can we not have reasonable salary caps?
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
City123
This is precisely what I think. Nobody said "Oh but you're only punishing the fans" when the likes of Wigan and Portsmouth were punished for their owners actions.
That’s not true. There was a lot of sympathy for the fans of both clubs. The difference is that there were already rules in place (voted for by the clubs themselves) regarding punishments for going into administration. I’m not sure if there are any rules in place regarding the ESL nonsense. It would be right and proper for these clubs (and especially their owners and executives) to be punished in some way, but it’ll be difficult for the authorities if they haven’t broken any of the current rules.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
It's almost like it was just an idea they had recently, thought they would test the response and were completely blown away by the negativity.
They didn't have any in depth details, no website, no real idea on who the other 3 founders would be, no pr machine at all.
It's like there was a few zoom calls and when Perez asked if they should announce it now he pretended they were on mute.
As much as a lot of football roles are filled by way of cronyism and are massively unqualified these are still billionaires who know how to make money, with such presentation though this naturally wouldn't have lasted long anyway.
All that money and business experience and they didn't even bother to buy the oil for the pr machine.
I fail to see it as anything but a stunt that backfired completely.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Originally Posted by
Trigger
It's almost like it was just an idea they had recently, thought they would test the response and were completely blown away by the negativity.
They didn't have any in depth details, no website, no real idea on who the other 3 founders would be, no pr machine at all.
It's like there was a few zoom calls and when Perez asked if they should announce it now he pretended they were on mute.
As much as a lot of football roles are filled by way of cronyism and are massively unqualified these are still billionaires who know how to make money, with such presentation though this naturally wouldn't have lasted long anyway.
All that money and business experience and they didn't even bother to buy the oil for the pr machine.
I fail to see it as anything but a stunt that backfired completely.
Apparently the news leaked and they had to go all out with their statement.
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Re: European Super League imminent?
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Re: European Super League imminent?
An interesting take on things by David Conn, particularly the view that the Government might be in the mood to make Premier League club owners pay over things like their reaction to Covid.
https://www.theguardian.com/football...-save-the-game