20mph online petition

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Absolutely. It's pissing people off across the political spectrum.

Today I had a knob jockey doing 20mph in a 40 zone. It's confused lots of people. It's been an utter disaster.

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give it a week and even the knob heads will have worked it out

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Both are illogical and unnecessary who decides whether it's 20mph 15mph or 3mph?

The motorway has already dropped to 50mph and the A470 to 50mph, cars are ten times safer and have ABS and airbags everywhere and the speed limits are 33% less than they were 58 years ago.

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Cars may be ten times safer, but pedestrian design hasn't moved forward quite as fast...

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Originally Posted by Rjk

give it a week and even the knob heads will have worked it out

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:hehe: You really think so?

I'm going to hop onto my soap box here and this is what I think is the crux of the matter.

Roads. What are they there for? In terms of usage, they are used mainly by vehicles; cars, buses, lorries, taxis etc, things with engines. Occasionally cyclists will use them, though the number of cyclists is very low compared with the rest. Pedestrians don't really use them, they use pavements but will also have to cross these roads from time to time.

So, given the frequency of what uses roads the most, shouldn't they be geared to making sure traffic moves smoothly and safely?

Roads are unsafe places. If I got run over I'd have either been run over by a lunatic who wasn't driving properly, or I'd have made a huge error of judgement. In 45 years I haven't been run over. Virtually all of my friends have never been run over, either. I reckon most people who are run over by a car have only themselves to blame, unless there's obvious fault on the side of the driver. The closest I ever got to running someone over was in Tonypandy - a guy walked out almost straight in front of me looking at his phone, oblivious of anything. If I'd have knocked him over I would have felt absolutely awful, but it would never have been my fault. Years ago my dad ran over a pedestrian on a motorway - he was suicidal and did it to end his life; there was never any blame attached to my dad, but he had to attend inquests and all sorts. Horrible for him and he considered quitting a career he'd spent his life doing and was really good at.

I have yet to hear from anyone that they object to 20mph limits in side streets, where there are schools and so on. At the moment we have lots of 20mph sections of road where there's no logical reason to do so. Main roads need to move traffic onwards. People have to get somewhere. Sadly the way things work in the UK means that people often have less time to do things than ever before.

Education is far better than ever before. Youngsters know the dangers of roads better than in my generation. Casualties, deaths etc on roads keep falling year by year.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I'm going to hop onto my soap box here and this is what I think is the crux of the matter.

Roads. What are they there for? In terms of usage, they are used mainly by vehicles; cars, buses, lorries, taxis etc, things with engines. Occasionally cyclists will use them, though the number of cyclists is very low compared with the rest. Pedestrians don't really use them, they use pavements but will also have to cross these roads from time to time.

So, given the frequency of what uses roads the most, shouldn't they be geared to making sure traffic moves smoothly and safely?

Roads are unsafe places. If I got run over I'd have either been run over by a lunatic who wasn't driving properly, or I'd have made a huge error of judgement. In 45 years I haven't been run over. Virtually all of my friends have never been run over, either. I reckon most people who are run over by a car have only themselves to blame, unless there's obvious fault on the side of the driver. The closest I ever got to running someone over was in Tonypandy - a guy walked out almost straight in front of me looking at his phone, oblivious of anything. If I'd have knocked him over I would have felt absolutely awful, but it would never have been my fault. Years ago my dad ran over a pedestrian on a motorway - he was suicidal and did it to end his life; there was never any blame attached to my dad, but he had to attend inquests and all sorts. Horrible for him and he considered quitting a career he'd spent his life doing and was really good at.

I have yet to hear from anyone that they object to 20mph limits in side streets, where there are schools and so on. At the moment we have lots of 20mph sections of road where there's no logical reason to do so. Main roads need to move traffic onwards. People have to get somewhere. Sadly the way things work in the UK means that people often have less time to do things than ever before.

Education is far better than ever before. Youngsters know the dangers of roads better than in my generation. Casualties, deaths etc on roads keep falling year by year.

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Just the truth .:thumbup:

On my detour through Newport on the way home after the Jacks game, the Mrs says to me " how fast you going ", I have it on cruise control and its bang on 30mph, thats too fast she says, no no I reply, its 30 here, look at the signs, no 30 is 20 in Wales now, so I slow down ( no cruise control as its too slow for it ) it seems every idiot was determined to blast past me at 40 mph, I was glad to get back on the M4 and open the engine up and do 50 mph :hehe:

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but I think the move to electric cars is another reason this change has been brought in. Electric cars having no engine noise removing the chance of hearing cars pass by, the amount of people on their phones, not checking before stepping out, kids chasing a football into the street etc means I feel the amount of pedestrian v car collisions would naturally go up.

Maybe the idea is by reducing cars speed in all built up areas will negate this from happening as much?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Absolutely. It's pissing people off across the political spectrum.

Today I had a knob jockey doing 20mph in a 40 zone. It's confused lots of people. It's been an utter disaster.

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Hasn’t that always been the way? There’s always been slow drivers, used to call them Sunday drivers (before Sunday became just another day). The speed limit maybe be 40mph but that exactly what it is, the limit, it doesn’t mean you have to drive at 40mph, you just don’t go above it. It’s always been frustrating being stuck behind someone tootling along at a snail’s pace but that’s nothing to do with what’s been brought in. I’ve always been of the opinion that ultra slow drivers are pretty dangerous and I think some have been pulled over to explain their cautiousness but if they’re below the limit they’d argue that they’re driving within the law.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Hasn’t that always been the way? There’s always been slow drivers, used to call them Sunday drivers (before Sunday became just another day). The speed limit maybe be 40mph but that exactly what it is, the limit, it doesn’t mean you have to drive at 40mph, you just don’t go above it. It’s always been frustrating being stuck behind someone tootling along at a snail’s pace but that’s nothing to do with what’s been brought in. I’ve always been of the opinion that ultra slow drivers are pretty dangerous and I think some have been pulled over to explain their cautiousness but if they’re below the limit they’d argue that they’re driving within the law.

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The problem with the 20mph speed limit ,or any other for that matter , is that it’s not a target, its “up to” the speed that’s been designated, so drivers are going to be driving slower than they should be alot of the time.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

:hehe: You really think so?

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I dont think so, I saw someone in a Land Rover overtaking people on a 20mph rd yesterday, god knows what they were thinking…..

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

In 45 years I haven't been run over. Virtually all of my friends have never been run over, either. I reckon most people who are run over by a car have only themselves to blame, unless there's obvious fault on the side of the driver.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
"Another kind of survivorship bias would involve thinking that an incident was not all that dangerous because the only people who were involved in the incident who can speak about it are those who survived it. Even if one knew that some people are dead, they would not have their voice to add to the conversation, leading to bias in the conversation"

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Yes I drive, every day
other than rush hour traffic has been moving completely freely around cardiff every time I've been out and about, the only traffic problems I've encountered during rush hour have been on roads that aren't affected by the change to 20 mph (A470 predominately).

If "oldies are sitting in nappies for hours" that probably has a lot more to do with the chronic shortage of carers in the system rather than that some of their journey is a little bit slower.

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The care system is down to the Tories

Utter nightmare of privatisation

Maybe it won't be helped by this 20 mph thing but it's completely ruined thanks to them anyway

A YouGov poll now showing big opposition to it.

The response from the WG all feels a bit like it's a legacy from covid times doesn't it?

Fairly blanket imposition, response of 'here to keep you safe' etc and not much else.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...ition-27769624

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Originally Posted by goats

I dont think so, I saw someone in a Land Rover overtaking people on a 20mph rd yesterday, god knows what they were thinking…..

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If the person he was overtaking was going slower and he could pass at 20/22 on his speedo then he is quite entitled to do so.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The care system is down to the Tories

Utter nightmare of privatisation

Maybe it won't be helped by this 20 mph thing but it's completely ruined thanks to them anyway

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Literally every truth in the universe, you will twist and squeeze and push through the tiny pinhole of 'its the Tories fault'.

It's been devolved to the Welsh Govt since 2011. Stop lying.

And yes, 20mph won't help. The lady in the flat next to mine has visitors three times a day and they have commented that it makes their job harder as they have to factor in greater downtime between visits.

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Originally Posted by Wozza16

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but I think the move to electric cars is another reason this change has been brought in. Electric cars having no engine noise removing the chance of hearing cars pass by, the amount of people on their phones, not checking before stepping out, kids chasing a football into the street etc means I feel the amount of pedestrian v car collisions would naturally go up.

Maybe the idea is by reducing cars speed in all built up areas will negate this from happening as much?

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I haven't seen a kid chase a football into the street in 30 years,

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

If the person he was overtaking was going slower and he could pass at 20/22 on his speedo then he is quite entitled to do so.

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They weren’t….must have hit the dizzy heights of 30 at least….wild eh?

Despite what the Tory loons in the Senedd say its not a blanket ban.

Councils can allow roads to be 30.

Rather than repeat the same stuff over and over again on a football message board lobby the council.

How many have written or contacted their local council?

If you havent what do you expect to achieve?

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

The problem with the 20mph speed limit ,or any other for that matter , is that it’s not a target, its “up to” the speed that’s been designated, so drivers are going to be driving slower than they should be alot of the time.

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and here is the issue, the old boy / Sunday driver who likes to drive slower than the speed limit might be doing 15mph

cyclists will be bombing past cars at that speed

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Originally Posted by blue matt

and here is the issue, the old boy / Sunday driver who likes to drive slower than the speed limit might be doing 15mph

cyclists will be bombing past cars at that speed

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They are bombing past, and now starting to moan that it feels more dangerous as car drivers are behaving differently it’s freaking them out….you gotta laugh.:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Despite what the Tory loons in the Senedd say its not a blanket ban.

Councils can allow roads to be 30.

Rather than repeat the same stuff over and over again on a football message board lobby the council.

How many have written or contacted their local council?

If you havent what do you expect to achieve?

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It's not a ban at all. It's a lowering of the default speed limit. And it's a blanket lowering of the speed limit. The fact that councils can subsequently revert back to 30mph doesn't alter that fact. It requires further action from councils to overcome the blanket change.

Well it's on 400,000 now.

If applied across the UK it would be the equivalent of an 8 million signature petition.

The highest ever in the UK is 6.1m who signed something in 2019 to revoke article 50.

So arguably this is per capita the most signed petition in recent UK history

https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

It's not a ban at all. It's a lowering of the default speed limit. And it's a blanket lowering of the speed limit. The fact that councils can subsequently revert back to 30mph doesn't alter that fact. It requires further action from councils to overcome the blanket change.

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The problem is though the councils are getting ££££ for complying with the 20mph . I can’t see them reversing it as they’d lose out on money.

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Originally Posted by darran1927

The problem is though the councils are getting ££££ for complying with the 20mph . I can’t see them reversing it as they’d lose out on money.

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Whether they do or not it'll require separate campaigns from people all over Wales to their local councils to reverse this blanket change. Many people are, quite sensibly, trying to put pressure on the idiots in the Senedd who introduced the measure. Who on earth would see the sense in 22 different campaigns aimed at individual councils rather than one aimed at the Senedd? Well, some on this message board apparently.

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Originally Posted by darran1927

The problem is though the councils are getting ££££ for complying with the 20mph . I can’t see them reversing it as they’d lose out on money.

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Do you mean fines, speed awareness fees etc? I was under the impression that motoring fines go to central government not local councils or the Senedd.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Well it's on 400,000 now.

If applied across the UK it would be the equivalent of an 8 million signature petition.

The highest ever in the UK is 6.1m who signed something in 2019 to revoke article 50.

So arguably this is per capita the most signed petition in recent UK history

https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548

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I remember the squealing from the pro-Brexit/europhile/little englander lobby at the the time. Oooooh look, most of the signatories are registered in Vladivostok, etc.

And yet you are more than happy to accept this one at face value.

🤣🤣

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Originally Posted by Swiss Peter

I remember the squealing from the pro-Brexit/europhile/little englander lobby at the the time. Oooooh look, most of the signatories are registered in Vladivostok, etc.

And yet you are more than happy to accept this one at face value.

🤣🤣

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You are usually better than words like 'squealing' and 'little Englander' Peter.

You also have the ability to see that the petition outlines where the signatories come from.

380,000 in Wales
20,0000 in England
800 in Scotland
100 in Northern Ireland.

Didnt you say elsewhere you live in Surrey? Easy to see why it doesn't impact you, but it's a notable piece of Welsh political news nonetheless.

And certainly not worth two of your laughing emojis!

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

You are usually better than words like 'squealing' and 'little Englander' Peter.

You also have the ability to see that the petition outlines where the signatories come from.

380,000 in Wales
20,0000 in England
800 in Scotland
100 in Northern Ireland.

Didnt you say elsewhere you live in Surrey? Easy to see why it doesn't impact you, but it's a notable piece of Welsh political news nonetheless.

And certainly not worth two of your laughing emojis!

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by poc

:hehe:

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🤣🤣 roflmao

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

🤣🤣 roflmao

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I'm pleased you're amused James. I meant to say europhobe, of course.

Made an 80 mile Journey today.

I reckon the 20mph limit added seconds to my overall Journey not even minutes. One of the roads coming out of RCT I was suprised to see still at 30. If your not happy lobby the council.

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Originally Posted by Swiss Peter

I'm pleased you're amused James. I meant to say europhobe, of course.

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Ah of course. Just like anyone who believes in Welsh devolution is just anti English, everyone who believes in Scottish independence is fuelled by a hatred of England.

Gotcha!

Either way, you may not find the numbers in the petition interesting, but they very notable ad as I say, per capita probably the biggest in recent UK political history.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Made an 80 mile Journey today.

I reckon the 20mph limit added seconds to my overall Journey not even minutes. One of the roads coming out of RCT I was suprised to see still at 30. If your not happy lobby the council.

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Luckily most councils read CCMB nowadays

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Gotcha!

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If it makes you happy to think so James, go for it! Have a nice weekend.

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Originally Posted by Swiss Peter

If it makes you happy to think so James, go for it! Have a nice weekend.

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People can have a different opinion to you without being a 'phobe' towards something. None of us are so virtuous in our beliefs for that not to be true.

And you, have a great weekend and enjoy what may be the last warm weekend for a while 👍🙂

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

People can have a different opinion to you without being a 'phobe' towards something. None of us are so virtuous in our beliefs for that not to be true.

And you, have a great weekend and enjoy what may be the last warm weekend for a while 👍🙂

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There were undoubtedly people who squealed about the article 50 petition being rigged who were europhobes. Not really sure how you've conjured that into welsh/scottish independence and people being virtuous, but anyway, have a good one!

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Literally every truth in the universe, you will twist and squeeze and push through the tiny pinhole of 'its the Tories fault'.

It's been devolved to the Welsh Govt since 2011. Stop lying.

And yes, 20mph won't help. The lady in the flat next to mine has visitors three times a day and they have commented that it makes their job harder as they have to factor in greater downtime between visits.

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Stop talking bollocks tory boy , no lying from me

The privatisation of the care system via provision of carers under Thatcher took hundreds of thousands of carers off pensioned jobs with promotion , decent working conditions and decent pay .......to the private sector where pay and conditions are shite and the service provided crap ......and of course the making of huge profits to private companies

As is the case with renationalisation of gas , water , electricity , buses etc the cost would be astronomical to go back to the old council system of care and simply couldn't be justified

But that's not my problem it's you and your tory chums

Now get back in your box you soppy tart , disingenuous tory nonsense

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Literally every truth in the universe, you will twist and squeeze and push through the tiny pinhole of 'its the Tories fault'.

It's been devolved to the Welsh Govt since 2011. Stop lying.

And yes, 20mph won't help. The lady in the flat next to mine has visitors three times a day and they have commented that it makes their job harder as they have to factor in greater downtime between visits.

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Tell the poor lady in the flat next to you it's not her fault it's cnuts like you who supported the privatisation of care services that have fecked things up and it can never ever be changed unless we plunge the system into even greater crisis

Everybody who has worked in care , has loved ones in care , is a social worker or a doctor getting a care package for a vulnerable person knows that when councils and health services care departments worked together and the staff were rewarded with decent pay and decent conditions and the system was fluid everyone got better outcomes and value for money and health was better

But along came the Tories who your lot voted for and for who you continually kiss ass and fecked everything up

It can't be changed now . We can tinker around the edges but the care crisis is down to YOU and The TORIES

As soon as night follows day you will tell all the social workers and NHS care staff they are wrong and you are right

But there you go

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

You are usually better than words like 'squealing' and 'little Englander' Peter.

You also have the ability to see that the petition outlines where the signatories come from.

380,000 in Wales
20,0000 in England
800 in Scotland
100 in Northern Ireland.

Didnt you say elsewhere you live in Surrey? Easy to see why it doesn't impact you, but it's a notable piece of Welsh political news nonetheless.

And certainly not worth two of your laughing emojis!

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What will the Dictator have to say about these figures then? Thought they were all from England? :hehe:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Stop talking bollocks tory boy , no lying from me

The privatisation of the care system via provision of carers under Thatcher took hundreds of thousands of carers off pensioned jobs with promotion , decent working conditions and decent pay .......to the private sector where pay and conditions are shite and the service provided crap ......and of course the making of huge profits to private companies

As is the case with renationalisation of gas , water , electricity , buses etc the cost would be astronomical to go back to the old council system of care and simply couldn't be justified

But that's not my problem it's you and your tory chums

Now get back in your box you soppy tart , disingenuous tory nonsense

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God man, stop talking about Thatcher. You sound like those blokes down City who still moan about losing Toshack.

Social care is devolved. End of. There's a history to everything but its ultimately under the control of the Welsh Govt. It's tempting to live in the past, we would all be younger that way at least, but it's a pointless exercise