-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chrisp_1927
Hard to see the justification in the continued bombing, what else can be left to bomb? I support the right to make a ground invasion if needed , but can this continued bombing really be targeting militants only?
As for that hospital strike. I reckon what's not being said probably speaks louder. If that was an Israeli strike we'd have had Palestinian journalists all over TV this morning with the proof , yet they appear to have nothing. In fact the Palestinian side seems to have gone very quiet on the matter
Didn't quite see the point in the audio released by Israel. My first thought on hearing it was it could as easily have been knocked up next door as be real. I'm wondering if it's more for the ears of the Iranians and hizbollah etc who are meant to recognise who these 2 people actually are.
I think the Israelis' maybe listening to a lot of folk saying not aground please , the Israeli leadership may be a bit far right but they are controlled by others and do have balanced politicians backers ..
I am waiting on the settlement scheme war for Palestinians in UK ( Scotland has stepped , up well the virtual signalling SNP not the voters over to Welsh dont forget me Drakeford )
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I would rather trust the Israeli/western version as there is nothing to gain bombing a hospital and they have the skills not too and Hamas know that, its reported the shrapnel is not Israeli made and there is intercepted call between Hamas operatives admitting the mistake .
It's probably worth mentioning that the evidence you are quoting has been collected and released by the IDF, so it's probably worth waiting for further confirmation.
Also, I don't think the argument 'what's to gain from bombing a hospital?' applies in this conflict. Both sides have already done a number of baffling things that don't help peace. Hamas knew exactly what their attack last week would lead to. Israel bombed a UN run school just yesterday.
PMQs is quite a tough watch as everybody takes the position that this conflict began when Hamas attacked last weekend. 30+ Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli forces in the west bank in 2023.
Whatever your take on the hideousness of each attack/crime or proportionality, it needs to be recognised that both sides would claim they are responding to aggression and our job as a country on the outside is to take a balanced pragmatic view which helps the road to peace, not to pick a side and revise history.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I'm sure the far left will deicide it for us they are setting up a vigil for all to attend in London for the hospital , sadly wont be the same for the festival goes of Israel .
By the way Corbyn called Hamas friends , Sir Keir was in that cabinet and didn't speak up , he didn't resign unlike other brave Labour MP's including Jewish ones who were hounded relentlessly until they left , lovely , party moved on be fecked , Sir Kier backed JC so many times , if that was Boris there would be some drum banging .
Corbyn was called out constantly on this board but I don't remember you ever calling Boris out for anything...
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
I just watched something by Andrew Marr on You Tube which quite impressed me. There's plenty I'm not in agreement with Marr on, but I thought he was right to emphasise that there's a need to try to avoid the aggressive falling into one of two camps that social media tends to emphasise. He did this by concentrating on the enormous numbers who would not be entirely pro Hamas or entirely pro Israel.
For myself, I cannot possibly condone what Hamas did nearly a fortnight ago, but, by the same token, Israel's attitude towards the Palestinian people over decades makes it impossible for me not to acknowledge that this has helped create a situation where an organisation like Hama can win elections.
The BBC have had to apologise for saying that the 150,000 to 200,000 who marched in London last weekend were protesting in favour of Hamas when I'm nearly 100 per cent sure that the vast majority of them were there to register their disagreement with the treatment of innocent Gaza citizens.
It's the majority with opinions somewhere in the middle that have to rise above the murderous noise we're hearing from the extremes (unfortunately represented by Hamas and, to a degree, by the Israeli Government) and try to take charge of events, but too many are blithely supporting Israel come what may and indulging Netanyahu and co like they have been is asking for more trouble.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
I think the Israelis' maybe listening to a lot of folk saying not aground please , the Israeli leadership may be a bit far right but they are controlled by others and do have balanced politicians backers ..
I am waiting on the settlement scheme war for Palestinians in UK ( Scotland has stepped , up well the virtual signalling SNP not the voters over to Welsh dont forget me Drakeford )
The Israelis have balanced political backers ?
The USA ?
I think you need to go and have a lie down
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I just watched something by Andrew Marr on You Tube which quite impressed me. There's plenty I'm not in agreement with Marr on, but I thought he was right to emphasise that there's a need to try to avoid the aggressive falling into one of two camps that social media tends to emphasise. He did this by concentrating on the enormous numbers who would not be entirely pro Hamas or entirely pro Israel.
For myself, I cannot possibly condone what Hamas did nearly a fortnight ago, but, by the same token, Israel's attitude towards the Palestinian people over decades makes it impossible for me not to acknowledge that this has helped create a situation where an organisation like Hama can win elections.
The BBC have had to apologise for saying that the 150,000 to 200,000 who marched in London last weekend were protesting in favour of Hamas when I'm nearly 100 per cent sure that the vast majority of them were there to register their disagreement with the treatment of innocent Gaza citizens.
It's the majority with opinions somewhere in the middle that have to rise above the murderous noise we're hearing from the extremes (unfortunately represented by Hamas and, to a degree, by the Israeli Government) and try to take charge of events, but too many are blithely supporting Israel come what may and indulging Netanyahu and co like they have been is asking for more trouble.
Agree completely. As people who are largely unaffected by it, we have absolutely no right to be emotional and should try to be completely objective. I guess the issue is people feel forced into a corner and become more and more entrenched by things they see and read.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The Israelis have balanced political backers ?
The USA ?
I think you need to go and have a lie down
Like the Israeli festival goers ?
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Corbyn was called out constantly on this board but I don't remember you ever calling Boris out for anything...
Would have if he had let down a party in the way Corbyn and others had put them back decades and is clearly a supporter of a terrorists and to this day displays those views ..
And so we move onto this vote reaching crap it is not a war crime to defend your self :
"" Labour councillors have quit the party in protest over Sir Keir Starmer’s stance on Israel’s planned invasion of Gaza – including the first Arab Muslim woman on Manchester City Council.
Amna Abdullatif said she had been left “no choice” other than to resign from Labour as she accused the Labour leader of “effectively endorsing a war crime”.
Boris made errors , had some cake , had some new wallpaper , go some Covid decisions wrong , got into the forefront of the vaccine right, and many will be thankful for that , he came no where near Corbyn .. who delivered the Tories 80 seats
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Seems more and more likely this tragic incident was not an Israeli attack now, from what I can read.
Either way, some of the media have some serious questions to answer jumping to the conclusion that Hamas themselves said. It's seriously escalated the situation in the last 24 hours and 'may' be based on a lie from a terrorist organisation.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Seems more and more likely this tragic incident was not an Israeli attack now, from what I can read.
Either way, some of the media have some serious questions to answer jumping to the conclusion that Hamas themselves said. It's seriously escalated the situation in the last 24 hours and 'may' be based on a lie from a terrorist organisation.
The difficulty is that the consumer wants breaking news and news organisations are rewarded with views and clicks for being first.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Seems more and more likely this tragic incident was not an Israeli attack now, from what I can read.
Either way, some of the media have some serious questions to answer jumping to the conclusion that Hamas themselves said. It's seriously escalated the situation in the last 24 hours and 'may' be based on a lie from a terrorist organisation.
https://twitter.com/FSBRG/status/171...J36zWyM0A&s=19
further discussion on the hospital attack
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
The difficulty is that the consumer wants breaking news and news organisations are rewarded with views and clicks for being first.
Unfortunately so.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Unfortunately so.
It's all good now, the war mongering resident has declared it wasn't done by ISRAEL, he has the evidence!!!
and for good measure he putting another shed load of wedge in GAZZA and of course, it'll not land in the pockets
of the ones who fire rockets, funding both sides of the conflict he cannot lose!!
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Like the Israeli festival goers ?
What are you on about now?
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
A controversial geezer but i think he has this 100% spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ti1dKRz53k
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heathblue
At 4:14 he says the terrorist attack in Israel was "tragic but necessary". That's absolutely awful and quite shocking.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
At 4:14 he says the terrorist attack in Israel was "tragic but necessary". That's absolutely awful and quite shocking.
It is/was but i was thinking more of the Israel leader has to go, and with a replacement dedicated to recognising the right of the Palestinians and having to settle peace with them. That piece was a poor miss by myself and offer no excuse.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heathblue
It is/was but i was thinking more of the Israel leader has to go, and with a replacement dedicated to recognising the right of the Palestinians and having to settle peace with them. That piece was a poor miss by myself and offer no excuse.
Not at all, it's easy to miss things but I think that does undermine what he may have gone onto say.
I'm pretty uncomfortable with a few things I've seen/read online in the last week or so.
The videos of people ripping down posters of missing kids was absolutely sickening
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
At 4:14 he says the terrorist attack in Israel was "tragic but necessary". That's absolutely awful and quite shocking.
Scott Ritter said that , not evil eyes
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Important in these situations to share what rare nuggets of good news there are I think.
Aid trucks are finally going into the Gaza strip.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...-east-67165505
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/...zl-PStm_g&s=19
question marks over the "audio of Hamas" after the hospital attack
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
The UNHCR said 2000 trucks needed to avert catastrophe - not 20. Something is better than nothing - but this is mainly about headlines not help. But all is OK because the IDF spokesman said the humanitarian situation is 'under control' because Israel had told the population to flee south. That was said as more rockets and bombs hit churches, mosques, schools and hospitals - in the south!
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
No surprise that Germany has banned all demonstrations in support of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank - but given the green light to demonstrations in support of Israel.
Germany and Austria are European outliers with this - but the deeply entrenched Holocaust guilt has ensured that Israel is given a completely free pass, and that any criticism of the Israeli state or state ideology is denounced as anti semitism and silenced (not just public protests but artworks, books and academic presentations).
The German Social Democrats and Greens are fully signed up to this - it's not just the parties of the right and centre right. They are happy to defend selected war crimes and systematic oppression. I was in Vienna the last time Israel decided to drop white phosphorus on children in Gaza, and the Austrian government thought that was the right time to fly Israeli flags from official buildings as a sign of support!
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
It is of course outrageous that Germany (and I think France, or maybe they've just severely restricted them?) has banned these.
I do understand Germany's sensitivities, and it is the case that antisemitic or pro- Hamas groups will align themselves with protests where the vast majority are just calling for peace or respect for Palestine etc, but still. What you do is allow protests to happen and to police them properly.
It's an odd tactic and surely anything can just take place under a 'peace march' banner can't it?
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
apparently 91 people have been killed in the west bank by Israel.
how does this stack up with the justification for the actions in Gaza?
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
apparently 91 people have been killed in the west bank by Israel.
how does this stack up with the justification for the actions in Gaza?
Nothing is so sweet as revenge. It's a thirst that cannot be quenched easily.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
apparently 91 people have been killed in the west bank by Israel.
how does this stack up with the justification for the actions in Gaza?
Most by the IDF - but a large number by armed settlers out for murder and destruction in West Bank villages and bedouin settlements. This has been going on for years, but more recently the IDF have moved to support these attacks instead of standing passively on the sidelines not intervening.
Since the recent Hamas atrocities the far right government has been issuing press releases to boast about handing out tens of thousands of weapons to illegal settlers - who unsurprisingly have been using them against the people they want to ethnically cleanse.
Not a peep out of our government, or the EU or US government. Van der Leyen and Sunak have recently remembered there is a thing called international law, and are now making token reference to it (like Biden) - but without ever calling out the hourly breaches of that law (aka war crimes).
https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/136685
https://www.newarab.com/news/armed-i...ians-west-bank
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...raeli-settlers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...bank-territory
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Most by the IDF - but a large number by armed settlers out for murder and destruction in West Bank villages and bedouin settlements. This has been going on for years, but more recently the IDF have moved to support these attacks instead of standing passively on the sidelines not intervening.
Since the recent Hamas atrocities the far right government has been issuing press releases to boast about handing out tens of thousands of weapons to illegal settlers - who unsurprisingly have been using them against the people they want to ethnically cleanse.
Not a peep out of our government, or the EU or US government. Van der Leyen and Sunak have recently remembered there is a thing called international law, and are now making token reference to it (like Biden) - but without ever calling out the hourly breaches of that law (aka war crimes).
https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/136685
https://www.newarab.com/news/armed-i...ians-west-bank
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...raeli-settlers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...bank-territory
But the UK government is apoplectic about one lone Palestinian supporter shouting "jihad".
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
But the UK government is apoplectic about one lone Palestinian supporter shouting "jihad".
Ridiculous thing to say on every level, esp after Jon's response.
Why the fk would we want people on our streets shouting about Jihad?
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Ridiculous thing to say on every level, esp after Jon's response.
Why the fk would we want people on our streets shouting about Jihad?
It's not ridiculous in the least. The Israeli response is a "jihad" in whatever word it means in Hebrew. Why should the Palestinian people be restrained and not the Jews? Show even a modicum of balance man!
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
What evidence is there that the ordinary Palestinian "man in the street" supports Hamas? Any opinion polls for instance? (Presumably not likely in such a place).
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
What evidence is there that the ordinary Palestinian "man in the street" supports Hamas? Any opinion polls for instance? (Presumably not likely in such a place).
Even more reason for the Western world to stop Israel murdering innocent people.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
It's not ridiculous in the least. The Israeli response is a "jihad" in whatever word it means in Hebrew. Why should the Palestinian people be restrained and not the Jews? Show even a modicum of balance man!
Mask is slipping a bit here, Dorcus.
It's not about sides. It's about not wanting murderous terrorists on the streets of Britain.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Even more reason for the Western world to stop Israel murdering innocent people.
It is interesting that we never seem to see blokes in Hamas headgear helping to recover people trapped under collapsed buildings do we? I can just imagine the frightening scenario whereby some Hamas fanatic decides to set up a rocket launcher on the roof of your home. If you protest I assume he would happily kill you for not being a Jihadist. Israeli intelligence detects where the rocket is fired from and responds by blowing your home to smithereens along with you and your family. What a world.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Mask is slipping a bit here, Dorcus.
It's not about sides. It's about not wanting murderous terrorists on the streets of Britain.
With our government and the US it's absolutely about sides. No one wants terrorism anywhere but in my opinion the Met police handled this issue correctly and no one needs a partisan government undermining matters.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
With our government and the US it's absolutely about sides. No one wants terrorism anywhere but in my opinion the Met police handled this issue correctly and no one needs a partisan government undermining matters.
Its not about partisan government it's about clamping down on calls for violence.
Imagine how Jewish people would feel with people getting away with that, let alone anyone else who wants to live in a civilised society.
Yeah, sure, you don't need to go in all guns blazing but I don't think people should get away with calling for jihad on our streets. Fk that.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
It is interesting that we never seem to see blokes in Hamas headgear helping to recover people trapped under collapsed buildings do we? I can just imagine the frightening scenario whereby some Hamas fanatic decides to set up a rocket launcher on the roof of your home. If you protest I assume he would happily kill you for not being a Jihadist. Israeli intelligence detects where the rocket is fired from and responds by blowing your home to smithereens along with you and your family. What a world.
Why on Earth would we hear about Hamas helping people trapped under buildings? The news is controlled by Israel and the West.
There is absolutely no way I would advocate nor back a jihad, it's utterly wrong but the point is one can understand one lone figure uttering the word out of revenge for the slaughter of his innocent people. Just like the pretext for the Israeli bombardment of Gaza by the way. If there were Jewish voices in the streets calling for a revenge attack on Gaza I didn't hear our Government trying to incriminate them.
The point is that the Western nations should be even handed in this conflict and their failure to restrain Israeli carnage means they have blood on their hands.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Its not about partisan government it's about clamping down on calls for violence.
Imagine how Jewish people would feel with people getting away with that, let alone anyone else who wants to live in a civilised society.
Yeah, sure, you don't need to go in all guns blazing but I don't think people should get away with calling for jihad on our streets. Fk that.
Absolutely wrong, it is partizan.
The police handled it correctly; it was one lone man calling for revenge.
The more this government butts in the more they will cause much greater resistance from the Palestinian sympathisers. The more the Western powers take sides in this conflict the longer it will persist and the greater the loss of life on both sides.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Why on Earth would we hear about Hamas helping people trapped under buildings? The news is controlled by Israel and the West.
There is absolutely no way I would advocate nor back a jihad, it's utterly wrong but the point is one can understand one lone figure uttering the word out of revenge for the slaughter of his innocent people. Just like the pretext for the Israeli bombardment of Gaza by the way. If there were Jewish voices in the streets calling for a revenge attack on Gaza I didn't hear our Government trying to incriminate them.
The point is that the Western nations should be even handed in this conflict and their failure to restrain Israeli carnage means they have blood on their hands.
It's not acceptable though. If it's acceptable for someone to talk about Jihad for revenge for "his people" (and we have no idea where those people are from..they are presumably Muslims, but they could be from anywhere) then what else is okay?
If you are cool with that then presumably you are cool with the people of Hartlepool demanding to kill asylum seekers after someone was murdered up there last week? Is that okay? Is that an understandable response?
It's indefensible really and it also undermines the perfectly legitimate and peaceful views of the overwhelming majority of people at pro Palestine marches on the weekend.
-
Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
imagine if Britain had reacted to IRA terrorism in the same way as Israel have reacted to terrorism. there's no way we would have peace there now. I dread to think what would have happened