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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
And plays into the hands of Trump as the "get tough" president. The church "thing" today was pathetic - does he seriously believe that the American people (Christian or otherwise) believe for one fleeting moment that he is a Christian with or without this shameless stunt?
Do agree it feeds his narrative , in Hong Kong occupying peacefully airports had such better result , looting v protesters, no contest . Gandhi could teach these rioters and looters a thing in making a mark in peaceful meaningful protest.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
False equivalency. Black people are in that position because black lives don’t matter.
And how many black people are in the world and what percentage of them do you think are involved in gangs?
False claim. How many non black people are there in the world and and what percentage of them are racist? How many white cops are there in the States, and what percentage of them do you think are racist?
There are more innocent young black men murdered by fellow young black men in both the states and the Uk than are murdered by police. Do black lives only matter if they are killed by cops?
As for the rioting and looting, how is that gonna help the situation? It makes a mockery of the genuine peaceful protestors, and does nothing but harm their cause.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Do agree it feeds his narrative , in Hong Kong occupying peacefully airports had such better result , looting v protesters, no contest . Gandhi could teach these rioters and looters a thing in making a mark in peaceful meaningful protest.
There was looting going on during the Hong Kong protests too... Jesus Christ, LoM, you're having a 'mare in this debate.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
The French protestors were generally peaceful over a long period of time, yet they were confronted by increasing levels of police harrasment and intimidation, as opposed to the preplanned robbing and looting spree organised by the Antifa commies.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
The video is not pretty.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Tanker truck plows into crowd of demonstrators on Minneapolis highway. Protesters scrambled as truck battled toward them. <a href="https://t.co/Q5cTF9AGB2">pic.twitter.com/Q5cTF9AGB2</a></p>— David Begnaud (@DavidBegnaud) <a href="https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1267230274468929537?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 31, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Driver released, probably because he had breaking issues stopping such a large vehicle after suddenly coming across hundreds of people standing around in the middle of a highway!
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Justice Yes
but surely this is going too far
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">White neighbours kneel down and beg their black neighbours for forgiveness on behalf of whites for years of racism. Such a beautiful moment.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GeorgeFloyd?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Geo rgeFloyd</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ICantBreathe?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#IC antBreathe</a> <a href="https://t.co/2CJRZheSeN">pic.twitter.com/2CJRZheSeN</a></p>— Preeti Nahar (@PreetRang) <a href="https://twitter.com/PreetRang/status/1267413715726581765?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
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Originally Posted by
blue matt
Justice Yes
but surely this is going too far
I'm sure a few on here who would be up for it judging by their moralistic posts. I am grateful that I was brought up the right way to respect everybody, so this public display of guilt-tripping is quite an alien concept to me.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
It’s crazy the ways people will go to say black lives don’t matter.
A small number of Black people kill other black people so they shouldn’t protest for equal rights.
A small number of people have looted during a country wide protest.
The protests have happened during a lockdown easing.
It’s obvious what these people’s agendas are.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
False claim. How many non black people are there in the world and and what percentage of them are racist? How many white cops are there in the States, and what percentage of them do you think are racist?
There are more innocent young black men murdered by fellow young black men in both the states and the Uk than are murdered by police. Do black lives only matter if they are killed by cops?
As for the rioting and looting, how is that gonna help the situation? It makes a mockery of the genuine peaceful protestors, and does nothing but harm their cause.
So because of this you think it’s ok that black people are treated differently to white people by the state in the U.K. and the US then?
All these are arguments that you think black lives don’t matter. Is that the case?
Maybe when you see a group of people protesting for justice you need to ask yourself why your first reaction to this is “what about this and what about that”
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
And people need to ask themselves why there is a disproportionate number of black people in prison? Why is their a disproportionate amount of black on black comes?
And if your answer is because black people are genetically more likely to be criminals then you’re a racist :thumbup:
If that isn’t your answer then you should be backing black lives matter.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
I've seen the recently released Netflix series on Michael Jordan described as the best sports documentary ever - I've not watched it and I doubt if I ever will. With apologies to anyone who might think this is a clumsy and inappropriate analogy given that i would have thought the large majority of professional basketball players in the USA are Afro Caribbean, I can't stand basketball, it's too easy to score and games are decided by how often you don't score the expected points when you attack.
The thing is though, my opinion of basketball is blinkered and biased, I come up with a bunch of preconceived notions about it which, almost certainly, makes it impossible for me to be objective about it.
I wrote a weekly column for the Echo on City for about eighteen months a few years back, but, by far and away, the most comment any of the pieces I wrote during that time attracted was one I did where I told a story against myself at the time of the Malky Mackay racism controversy. I won't go into too much detail now, but, back in the early eighties, I made a racist comment (I called them a P*k*) about a member of the public I'd just had a fairly troublesome phone conversation with in work. I thought the Sri Lankan gentleman who worked close by I was quite friendly with was at lunch at the time, but it turned out he heard me. We barely spoke again after that, but word got back to me that he was very disappointed with me because "he thought I was better than that".
That comment was absolutely perfect if it was meant to upset me and make me think. It had a profound effect on me and drove a coach and horses through my opinion of myself that I was a "right on" non racist. However, I would say in partial mitigation that I was a product of my time and anyone who is not old enough to have, first, lived through and, second, understood what was being said in so much of the print you read and the television and radio you watched and heard in that decade, cannot really comprehend the way my generation was being influenced to think of people with a skin colour that wasn't white in derogatory terms.
Nevertheless, there is so much thinking on a par with my attitude towards basketball in this thread - people pontificating and agreeing sagely on a subject they know very little about (i.e. what it is like to be black in countries in the "developed" world). I freely admit that I don't know what it's like because I cannot do, but, based on this thread, there are plenty of white, middle aged/old men who think they know exactly what it's like.
The thing is, Delmbox absolutely nailed this it with this argument in another thread when he said;-
"The question I think you need to ask yourself is when you see a group of people protesting because they're clearly angry and upset about something, why your reaction is to think of "what about, what about" reasons why they shouldn't, rather than thinking about why they are."
End of argument as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Yeah that delmbox argument really spoke to me. Very well put.
You can be anti racist and still say inappropriate things and have inappropriate opinions too, you just have to try and improve yourself. I’ve said racist things I regretted when I was younger thinking it was just a joke and am probably guilty of it at times now too. Life Is about continuously trying to improve yourself as a person, none of us are perfect.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
So because of this you think it’s ok that black people are treated differently to white people by the state in the U.K. and the US then?
All these are arguments that you think black lives don’t matter. Is that the case?
Maybe when you see a group of people protesting for justice you need to ask yourself why your first reaction to this is “what about this and what about that”
Why do you always try to twist things?
Do you get some perverse thrill?
My initial post in this thread explains my opinion on the topic matter. No where in it does it say that i don't think black lives matter. Thats all in your head.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
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Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Why do you always try to twist things?
Do you get some perverse thrill?
My initial post in this thread explains my opinion on the topic matter. No where in it does it say that i don't think black lives matter. Thats all in your head.
So you think the protests have value then :thumbup:
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
So if your not black and living in a “developed” country, you cant have an opinion on racist matters ?
Very backward thinking in my opinion.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
So you think the protests have value then :thumbup:
Of course the protests have value. The rioting and looting definitely don't 👍
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Of course the protests have value. The rioting and looting definitely don't 👍
So why do people keep bringing them up?
It’s a small minority of people. They aren’t part of the protests if they’re looting and rioting.
The people judging the whole movement of blm on a tiny proportion of people must hate the American police based on the actions of the minority of the police who shoot people.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
So if your not black and living in a “developed” country, you cant have an opinion on racist matters ?
Very backward thinking in my opinion.
He hasn’t said that, he said maybe we can’t fully comprehend what it’s like being the subject of it, so it’s hard to have a fully formed opinion of what it’s like.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
So if your not black and living in a “developed” country, you cant have an opinion on racist matters ?
Very backward thinking in my opinion.
Show me where I said that. Following your logic through, I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on basketball. As I admit, my opinion of that sport is blinkered and biased, but I'm allowed my opinion on it even though it's probably a load of bollox.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
He hasn’t said that, he said maybe we can’t fully comprehend what it’s like being the subject of it, so it’s hard to have a fully formed opinion of what it’s like.
Thats just nonsense. Its quite easy to imagine what it would be like to be persecuted and treated like 2nd class citizens on a daily basis. Thats why the majority of people of all colours all over the world are sickened by it.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Show me where I said that. Following your logic through, I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on basketball. As I admit, my opinion of that sport is blinkered and biased, but I'm allowed my opinion on it even though it's probably a load of bollox.
This whole thread is going round in circles. Its not my logic I'm talking about. Its your logic .
You wrote a long winded post about it about 20 mins ago 😁
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Thats just nonsense. Its quite easy to imagine what it would be like to be persecuted and treated like 2nd class citizens on a daily basis. Thats why the majority of people of all colours all over the world are sickened by it.
We appreciate that it’s bad but we underestimate how difficult it is. We don’t know what it’s like to be completely judged just on how we look and having to be on our guard at all times of day.
Black people, in the US at least, have to be taught growing up how to behave with the police because they’re more likely to be approached and more likely to be injured than a white person. Can you actually imagine what that’s like to be so afraid of that every time you leave the house? Because I can’t.
We don’t notice how lucky we are to be white because we are so used to it. That’s what makes it so hard for us to understand exactly how bad it is for non white people.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Racism is not just a colour issue.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
So why do people keep bringing them up?
It’s a small minority of people. They aren’t part of the protests if they’re looting and rioting.
The people judging the whole movement of blm on a tiny proportion of people must hate the American police based on the actions of the minority of the police who shoot people.
It doesn’t matter if its a small minority. Its distracting from the protest. We all know what damage a small minority can do. It wasn't that long ago, that all City fans were tarred with the same brush because of the soul crew.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
It doesn’t matter if its a small minority. Its distracting from the protest. We all know what damage a small minority can do. It wasn't that long ago, that all City fans were tarred with the same brush because of the soul crew.
But the people doing the looting aren’t part of the protests.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
But the people doing the looting aren’t part of the protests.
So why was George Floyds brother so an angry and upset by it. Obviously, because its distracting from the peaceful protests. Surely you can see that?
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
This whole thread is going round in circles. Its not my logic I'm talking about. Its your logic .
You wrote a long winded post about it about 20 mins ago
No, you said that I thought people like you cannot have an opinion on "racist matters". I didn't say that at all, you are free to think what you like, but the difference between us would appear to be that I am able to recognise and accept when my opinions don't stand up to close scrutiny.
You talk about "my logic", but you have come to a conclusion on what I said that does not apply.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
So why was George Floyds brother so an angry and upset by it. Obviously, because its distracting from the peaceful protests. Surely you can see that?
Yeah I can but you're doing the job of detracting from it by bringing it up.
They aren't part of the protest and they shouldn't detract from it but people will use it as an excuse to detract from it.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
We appreciate that it’s bad but we underestimate how difficult it is. We don’t know what it’s like to be completely judged just on how we look and having to be on our guard at all times of day.
Black people, in the US at least, have to be taught growing up how to behave with the police because they’re more likely to be approached and more likely to be injured than a white person. Can you actually imagine what that’s like to be so afraid of that every time you leave the house? Because I can’t.
We don’t notice how lucky we are to be white because we are so used to it. That’s what makes it so hard for us to understand exactly how bad it is for non white people.
I disagree with you once again. I for one, don't under estimate how difficult it is, and millions of others all over the world don't either.
It can be a sick and cruel world we live in. Ask gay people, transexual people, fat people , ugly people,
Disabled people etc, what its like to be persecuted and taunted. Its getting better, but we still have a million miles to go on eradicating it all together, and sadly i don't think we ever will.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
No, you said that I thought people like you cannot have an opinion on "racist matters". I didn't say that at all, you are free to think what you like, but the difference between us would appear to be that I am able to recognise and accept when my opinions don't stand up to close scrutiny.
You talk about "my logic", but you have come to a conclusion on what I said that does not apply.
Still going round in circles here. My opinion on the way black Americans are treated, would stand up to the closest and tightest scrutiny.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
So you think you know exactly how it is to live your life as a minority every day and how that affects every part of your life?
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Yeah I can but you're doing the job of detracting from it by bringing it up.
They aren't part of the protest and they shouldn't detract from it but people will use it as an excuse to detract from it.
So shall we just pretend its not happening?
Why did George Floyds brother even mention it then? He mentioned it, because it sickened him that a minority of people were taking advantage of his brothers murder to run wild. You cant pick and choose. These rioters and looters have got to be shamed and condemned, just as much as the racist cops involved in this whole sorry affair.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
So you think you know exactly how it is to live your life as a minority every day and how that affects every part of your life?
Yes i do. Thats why I'm sickened to the core about institutionalised racism and all racism of any kind.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I've seen the recently released Netflix series on Michael Jordan described as the best sports documentary ever - I've not watched it and I doubt if I ever will. With apologies to anyone who might think this is a clumsy and inappropriate analogy given that i would have thought the large majority of professional basketball players in the USA are Afro Caribbean, I can't stand basketball, it's too easy to score and games are decided by how often you don't score the expected points when you attack.
The thing is though, my opinion of basketball is blinkered and biased, I come up with a bunch of preconceived notions about it which, almost certainly, makes it impossible for me to be objective about it.
I wrote a weekly column for the Echo on City for about eighteen months a few years back, but, by far and away, the most comment any of the pieces I wrote during that time attracted was one I did where I told a story against myself at the time of the Malky Mackay racism controversy. I won't go into too much detail now, but, back in the early eighties, I made a racist comment (I called them a P*k*) about a member of the public I'd just had a fairly troublesome phone conversation with in work. I thought the Sri Lankan gentleman who worked close by I was quite friendly with was at lunch at the time, but it turned out he heard me. We barely spoke again after that, but word got back to me that he was very disappointed with me because "he thought I was better than that".
That comment was absolutely perfect if it was meant to upset me and make me think. It had a profound effect on me and drove a coach and horses through my opinion of myself that I was a "right on" non racist. However, I would say in partial mitigation that I was a product of my time and anyone who is not old enough to have, first, lived through and, second, understood what was being said in so much of the print you read and the television and radio you watched and heard in that decade, cannot really comprehend the way my generation was being influenced to think of people with a skin colour that wasn't white in derogatory terms.
Nevertheless, there is so much thinking on a par with my attitude towards basketball in this thread - people pontificating and agreeing sagely on a subject they know very little about (i.e. what it is like to be black in countries in the "developed" world). I freely admit that I don't know what it's like because I cannot do, but, based on this thread, there are plenty of white, middle aged/old men who think they know exactly what it's like.
The thing is, Delmbox absolutely nailed this it with this argument in another thread when he said;-
"The question I think you need to ask yourself is when you see a group of people protesting because they're clearly angry and upset about something, why your reaction is to think of "what about, what about" reasons why they shouldn't, rather than thinking about why they are."
End of argument as far as I'm concerned.
Don't beat yourself up butt, I'm reminded of the Big Ron thing, he did great things for the advancement of certain groups but just happened to make a comment, most people are to a greater or lesser extent products of their environment, strange the Sri Lankan, Pakistan thing mind you, did the Sri Lankan have links to Pakistan then ?, not that that matters.
The last dance thing was interesting, there is a cross over in many sports, Jordan at one point went on to play rounders or whatever the Yanks call it, the characters were interesting, the scoring in baseball is opposite to football, in football it's hard to score (some games there are no goals), in football the crowd will often chant 'attack, attack, attack attack attack' in Basketball the crowd will often chant 'DEFENCE'.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
Yes i do. Thats why I'm sickened to the core about institutionalised racism and all racism of any kind.
Makes your first post about black people killing each other even stupider then.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Makes your first post about black people killing each other even stupider then.
There you go again.
My first post in this thread, was basically saying, that all lives, no matter what colour or creed matter.
I also wanted to get across the point, that its not just racist American cops that need to appreciate that, its people of all colour and creed that think life is cheap.
No point in trying to eradicate what happened to George Floyd then black youths killing black youths because of different rag colours and different gang memberships, or white people killing white people because of religious beliefs, or anyone killing anyone etc etc..
Im not trying to get into a battle with you, because we hopefully we both want the same thing.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
No, you said that I thought people like you cannot have an opinion on "racist matters". I didn't say that at all, you are free to think what you like, but the difference between us would appear to be that I am able to recognise and accept when my opinions don't stand up to close scrutiny.
You talk about "my logic", but you have come to a conclusion on what I said that does not apply.
The big difference here, is opinions on sport, are 2 a penny, and throw away. Im not very keen on Basketball myself or cricket come to that, so my opinions on them would de biased
Opinions on life matters though are more important, and any right minded person wouldn't hesitate to agree that all lives are important and racism is wrong. There is no grey area there.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Racism against black people is no different to racism against white people or any other people for that matter.
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
There you go again.
My first post in this thread, was basically saying, that all lives, no matter what colour or creed matter.
I also wanted to get across the point, that its not just racist American cops that need to appreciate that, its people of all colour and creed that think life is cheap.
No point in trying to eradicate what happened to George Floyd then black youths killing black youths because of different rag colours and different gang memberships, or white people killing white people because of religious beliefs, or anyone killing anyone etc etc..
Im not trying to get into a battle with you, because we hopefully we both want the same thing.
All lives matter is the words of someone who’s missed the point. It’s usually used by racists to undermine the movement too.
BLM is valid because at the moment white lives matter but black lives don’t. That’s why the movement is so needed.
Saying all lives matter paints the person at the very best as ignorant. There are plenty of places you can google that explain this a lot better than I can.
Before charging into a subject with your opinion why not try and understand everything first?
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Re: Justice for George Floyd petition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
There are more innocent young black men murdered by fellow young black men in both the states and the Uk than are murdered by police. Do black lives only matter if they are killed by cops?
This isn’t a particular feature of what’s going on currently, I think people are generally more inclined to join protests targeted at power/authority.
For example, would you conclude I don’t really think that domestic violence matters as I haven’t marched about it? And would I be required to do so before protesting if I felt the police had started targeting females for violent treatment?