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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Hull 2-0 up in the dying minutes.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Interesting that Lewys Benjamin played for the U18's yesterday. An article by Roath Boy reports that the deal to sign for Man City has fallen thorough. It suggests that Wolves are after him, but that he was playing for us yesterday suggest that he has committed to stay.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdrianAlston
Interesting that Lewys Benjamin played for the U18's yesterday. An article by Roath Boy reports that the deal to sign for Man City has fallen thorough. It suggests that Wolves are after him, but that he was playing for us yesterday suggest that he has committed to stay.
That would be good
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdrianAlston
Interesting that Lewys Benjamin played for the U18's yesterday. An article by Roath Boy reports that the deal to sign for Man City has fallen thorough. It suggests that Wolves are after him, but that he was playing for us yesterday suggest that he has committed to stay.
Sorry, the final sentence isn't punctuated properly. For the avoidance of doubt I am suggesting that him playing for our U18's means that he is likely to be staying, not Roath Boy's article.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Xavier Benjamin academy player of the season
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Xavier Benjamin, signed last summer after being released by QPR Academy player of the year and Philogene being Young player of the year is a bit disappointing for our development system.
I'm not saying they didn't deserve it, but it's a pity that one of our home produced didn't take or get the opportunity.
This wasn't helped by the almost season long injuries experienced by Colwill, Davies and Denham.
Eli King can feel hard done by. On the fringes of a real 1st team breakthrough at the end of last season. He had an outstanding pre-season and a successful loan spell only to be totally ignored upon his return. This despite looking a step above in the U21 games.
Our midfield signings last summer were failures. Our best midfielders this year have been Wintle and Ralls. The new signings, all on long contracts were Adams (injured), Rinhomota (average at best), Sawyers (poor).
Strangly enough, midfield is the position that we have most depth and yet are in most need of a new signing. It won't happen, but I'd move on both Rinhomota and Sawyers. Though, nobody will take them off us.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdrianAlston
Xavier Benjamin, signed last summer after being released by QPR Academy player of the year and Philogene being Young player of the year is a bit disappointing for our development system.
I'm not saying they didn't deserve it, but it's a pity that one of our home produced didn't take or get the opportunity.
This wasn't helped by the almost season long injuries experienced by Colwill, Davies and Denham.
Eli King can feel hard done by. On the fringes of a real 1st team breakthrough at the end of last season. He had an outstanding pre-season and a successful loan spell only to be totally ignored upon his return. This despite looking a step above in the U21 games.
Our midfield signings last summer were failures. Our best midfielders this year have been Wintle and Ralls. The new signings, all on long contracts were Adams (injured), Rinhomota (average at best), Sawyers (poor).
Strangly enough, midfield is the position that we have most depth and yet are in most need of a new signing. It won't happen, but I'd move on both Rinhomota and Sawyers. Though, nobody will take them off us.
Thanks for that - agree with everything you say.
City had good representation in the Welsh under 17 side which became the first national team to qualify for a Euros at age group level in donkeys years and yet they give the Academy Player of the Year award to someone who has never played an Academy game for us in his life? Absolutely bonkers!
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdrianAlston
Xavier Benjamin, signed last summer after being released by QPR Academy player of the year and Philogene being Young player of the year is a bit disappointing for our development system.
I'm not saying they didn't deserve it, but it's a pity that one of our home produced didn't take or get the opportunity.
This wasn't helped by the almost season long injuries experienced by Colwill, Davies and Denham.
Eli King can feel hard done by. On the fringes of a real 1st team breakthrough at the end of last season. He had an outstanding pre-season and a successful loan spell only to be totally ignored upon his return. This despite looking a step above in the U21 games.
Our midfield signings last summer were failures. Our best midfielders this year have been Wintle and Ralls. The new signings, all on long contracts were Adams (injured), Rinhomota (average at best), Sawyers (poor).
Strangly enough, midfield is the position that we have most depth and yet are in most need of a new signing. It won't happen, but I'd move on both Rinhomota and Sawyers. Though, nobody will take them off us.
Completely agree, especially the part about our midfield and it's why I never bought into the whole "Morison wans to promote youth" stuff, he signed a host of average-to-poor (often ageing) journeymen, just like the managers before him
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Thanks for that - agree with everything you say.
City had good representation in the Welsh under 17 side which became the first national team to qualify for a Euros at age group level in donkeys years and yet they give the Academy Player of the Year award to someone who has never played an Academy game for us in his life? Absolutely bonkers!
Academy setup includes u21 side.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
Academy setup includes u21 side.
I don’t think it does - I thought the Academy was for the players who are too young to have pro contracts (ie under 18s). Even if I’m wrong though, it’s still mad that someone who is nineteen and hasn’t been with us for a year gets the Academy Player of the Year award - it’s like when Callum Paterson won Young Player of the Year.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I don’t think it does - I thought the Academy was for the players who are too young to have pro contracts (ie under 18s). Even if I’m wrong though, it’s still mad that someone who is nineteen and hasn’t been with us for a year gets the Academy Player of the Year award - it’s like when Callum Paterson won Young Player of the Year.
https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club-staff/academy
u21 manager listed as Academy staff.
Benjamin has played well for the u21s and been on the first team bench. It would be churlish not to recognise his good play this season due to not having been with the club long enough.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
It may have been the case that the u23s weren't considered an academy side, weren't they down as "development"? That doesn't seem to be the case with the u21s
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club-staff/academy
u21 manager listed as Academy staff.
Benjamin has played well for the u21s and been on the first team bench. It would be churlish not to recognise his good play this season due to not having been with the club long enough.
I despair, if the under 21s are still considered Academy players that goes some way to explaining why we’re so crap at developing young full time professional players into first teamers. Cosseting them in Academys until twenty one only gives staff more of an excuse to say they’re not ready yet.
It’s not that long ago that a City team without a home grown youngster in it was considered unusual - having seventeen year olds in the first team was fairly commonplace and you’d occasionally see a sixteen year old. Now we’re in a position where our manager considers twenty one year olds not ready yet because we’re in a relegation scrap - if I were. a member of the Academy’s staff I’d being seeing the fact that someone like Benjamin won the award for Academy Player of the Year as an admission of failure.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I despair, if the under 21s are still considered Academy players that goes some way to explaining why we’re so crap at developing young full time professional players into first teamers. Cosseting them in Academys until twenty one only gives staff more of an excuse to say they’re not ready yet.
It’s not that long ago that a City team without a home grown youngster in it was considered unusual - having seventeen year olds in the first team was fairly commonplace and you’d occasionally see a sixteen year old. Now we’re in a position where our manager considers twenty one year olds not ready yet because we’re in a relegation scrap - if I were. a member of the Academy’s staff I’d being seeing the fact that someone like Benjamin won the award for Academy Player of the Year as an admission of failure.
So what were u23s then? No longer Academy kids, but not really senior players so an underclass?
What about u21s playing for he u23s? Would an 18 year old be an academy player or not? Are Crole and Ashford not really Academy players either?
I would be interesting to see analysis if possible because I can't recall seeing 17 yr olds and occasionally 16 yr olds in City sides. Maybe, just maybe at lower levels or in meaningless cup games. That isn't even something particular to us, I cant recall ay Championship side that would be the same. The odd player here and there, maybe.
Again, I refer to to criticism of Benjamin winning the award as being churlish. Like it or not, he's part of the Academy setup and if he breaks into the first team, I'll be cheering him on, not worrying he hasn't been at the club for a decade.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
So what were u23s then? No longer Academy kids, but not really senior players so an underclass?
What about u21s playing for he u23s? Would an 18 year old be an academy player or not? Are Crole and Ashford not really Academy players either?
I would be interesting to see analysis if possible because I can't recall seeing 17 yr olds and occasionally 16 yr olds in City sides. Maybe, just maybe at lower levels or in meaningless cup games. That isn't even something particular to us, I cant recall ay Championship side that would be the same. The odd player here and there, maybe.
Again, I refer to to criticism of Benjamin winning the award as being churlish. Like it or not, he's part of the Academy setup and if he breaks into the first team, I'll be cheering him on, not worrying he hasn't been at the club for a decade.
They were categorised as "development" weren't they? A sort of weird halfway house between the academy and the first team
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
They were categorised as "development" weren't they? A sort of weird halfway house between the academy and the first team
We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.
that filters all the way down the to under 9's playing in a higher age group , under 14's playing in the under 16's etc
reading the last few threads still unsure what the issue is
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
We routinely played u18 eligible kids in u23 games.
We did occasionally, but weren't the games and regular squad considered a separate thing to the "academy" which was the younger age groups, hence "DVP & academy"? It was restructured back into u21s this season
Not that that has anything to do with the awards anyway, didn't Colwill win it last season? He'd already played about 10 senior games going into that season and was a Wales international!
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MOZZER2
that filters all the way down the to under 9's playing in a higher age group , under 14's playing in the under 16's etc
reading the last few threads still unsure what the issue is
The Benjamin apparently isn't "Academy enough" to have received an award.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
The academy twitter account's bio says it's U9-U21
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
the rules from the FA regarding youth development rules
https://resources.premierleague.com/...1-YD-Rules.pdf
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
So what were u23s then? No longer Academy kids, but not really senior players so an underclass?
What about u21s playing for he u23s? Would an 18 year old be an academy player or not? Are Crole and Ashford not really Academy players either?
I would be interesting to see analysis if possible because I can't recall seeing 17 yr olds and occasionally 16 yr olds in City sides. Maybe, just maybe at lower levels or in meaningless cup games. That isn't even something particular to us, I cant recall ay Championship side that would be the same. The odd player here and there, maybe.
Again, I refer to to criticism of Benjamin winning the award as being churlish. Like it or not, he's part of the Academy setup and if he breaks into the first team, I'll be cheering him on, not worrying he hasn't been at the club for a decade.
Aaron Ramsey and John Toshack played for us as sixteen year olds with The latter becoming a regular selection at that age and the former at seventeen. Chris Gunter had a run of games in the first team as a seventeen year old, as did Adam Matthews and Darcy Blake made his debut at seventeen I believe. Going back further, Lindon Jones, Peter Sayer, and David Giles all debuted at seventeen, Simon Haworth did I think, Earnie did and James Collins may have been seventeen as well.
Think a lot of the praise Benjamin gets is for him being seen as a leader when you often hear talk about how few of those there are in the modern game. I’m not against him in any way, I just don’t think him getting the award reflects well on the Academy especially when you consider that his leadership qualities are hardly likely to have appeared in the past year while he’s been with us.
I always think of Theo Wharton (another who played in the first team at seventeen I think) and Tommy O’Sullivan as explanations as to why under 23 football was wrong - they were still playing age group football every week at twenty two and twenty three and the idea that they could still have been regarded as Academy players at that age is laughable - I think it’s laughable as well that twenty one year old Rubin Colwill could still be considered as a Academy player at City when he’s been to a Euros and A World Cup with his country.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Aaron Ramsey and John Toshack played for us as sixteen year olds with The latter becoming a regular selection at that age and the former at seventeen. Chris Gunter had a run of games in the first team as a seventeen year old, as did Adam Matthews and Darcy Blake made his debut at seventeen I believe. Going back further, Lindon Jones, Peter Sayer, and David Giles all debuted at seventeen, Simon Haworth did I think, Earnie did and James Collins may have been seventeen as well.
Think a lot of the praise Benjamin gets is for him being seen as a leader when you often hear talk about how few of those there are in the modern game. I’m not against him in any way, I just don’t think him getting the award reflects well on the Academy especially when you consider that his leadership qualities are hardly likely to have appeared in the past year while he’s been with us.
I always think of Theo Wharton (another who played in the first team at seventeen I think) and Tommy O’Sullivan as explanations as to why under 23 football was wrong - they were still playing age group football every week at twenty two and twenty three and the idea that they could still have been regarded as Academy players at that age is laughable - I think it’s laughable as well that twenty one year old Rubin Colwill could still be considered as a Academy player at City when he’s been to a Euros and A World Cup with his country.
Ramsey was when? Toshack was when? What level were we in when the people youve named made their debuts?
Talented players will make the breakthrough, but we've seen endless youngsters touted here that have gone on do very little. If you'd argued we've had managers unwilling to back youngsters, I'd tend to agree.
Theo Wharton, like Tom James, were named by Mackay as having "big futures ahead of them". O'Sullivan et al. File firmly in the "Where are they now?" category, can hardly claim the club have missed out.
Like it or not, Benjamin is an Academy player. You ay consider it laughable, c'est la vie.
What's more important is that the club need to have a manager willing to give youngsters runs. I don't care if they came fom another Academy or not, but in McGuinness, Denham, Rubin Colwill, Davies, Etete we've a useful young first team crop. If at least one from Benjamin, King, Ashford Leahy, Crole pan out, then great.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
Ramsey was when? Toshack was when? What level were we in when the people youve named made their debuts?
Talented players will make the breakthrough, but we've seen endless youngsters touted here that have gone on do very little. If you'd argued we've had managers unwilling to back youngsters, I'd tend to agree.
Theo Wharton, like Tom James, were named by Mackay as having "big futures ahead of them". O'Sullivan et al. File firmly in the "Where are they now?" category, can hardly claim the club have missed out.
Like it or not, Benjamin is an Academy player. You ay consider it laughable, c'est la vie.
What's more important is that the club need to have a manager willing to give youngsters runs. I don't care if they came fom another Academy or not, but in McGuinness, Denham, Rubin Colwill, Davies, Etete we've a useful young first team crop. If at least one from Benjamin, King, Ashford Leahy, Crole pan out, then great.
Apart from Earnie, Haworth and Collins, we were in Division 2/Championship when the players I named first played for us.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Apart from Earnie, Haworth and Collins, we were in Division 2/Championship when the players I named first played for us.
In a different era.
Look, talented players will make it if there's a manager willing to play them. We know Warnock didn't. We know McCarthy did, we know Morison and Hudson weren't and we also know Lamouchi generally hasn't.
We've a good core of youngsters that we can build around. Colwill behind Davies and Etete could be very interesting. We've some youngsters below the fist team who might make it. Without a manager willing to do so...
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club-staff/academy
u21 manager listed as Academy staff.
Benjamin has played well for the u21s and been on the first team bench. It would be churlish not to recognise his good play this season due to not having been with the club long enough.
I don't want to be pedantic, but Benjamin hasn't been on the 1st team bench. It was the cup game when it was assumed that it was him, but it was actually the U16 keeper with the same surname; who had been selected just to increase the compensation it was assumed that Man City would have to play.
Benjamin snr has had a good season, he's clearly a good defender and leader. But his chances of being a Championship Centre Back, given his height, are very limited. His distribution isn't the best either. Macnamara and Denham are noticeably better in this regard
I'm not sure I see sense in the signings of Benjamin, Antwi, Conte, Kristensen, Leahy, Peake etc. Let's face it none of them are going to be 1st team players. I'm not sure of the cost, but I can't help think that there is something slightly dodgy to do with Agents going on.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logic
In a different era.
Look, talented players will make it if there's a manager willing to play them. We know Warnock didn't. We know McCarthy did, we know Morison and Hudson weren't and we also know Lamouchi generally hasn't.
We've a good core of youngsters that we can build around. Colwill behind Davies and Etete could be very interesting. We've some youngsters below the fist team who might make it. Without a manager willing to do so...
In fairness to Lamouchi, at Forest he made Worrall into a 1st team ever present, Yates and Mighten were match day squad regulars and he gave Johnson his 1st team debut. It will be interesting to see if he does the same with Davies, Colwill, King and Denham from the start of the season when there isn't the same level of pressure/desperation.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdrianAlston
I'm not sure I see sense in the signings of Benjamin, Antwi, Conte, Kristensen, Leahy, Peake etc. Let's face it none of them are going to be 1st team players. I'm not sure of the cost, but I can't help think that there is something slightly dodgy to do with Agents going on.
Darren Purse said signing Conte and Antwi, for instance, was supposed to bring some "experience" to the team, if that makes any sense. A little while ago a couple of teams (I think one of them was Brighton) actually brought in some proper experience - ie. a 30 something old pro winding down his career - to direct the younger players while playing for their U23s. Not sure if it caught on or was seen as beneficial in the end. It should be noted that Denham was signed after his release from Man U so it's not a complete waste of time as a policy but there's often a feeling of making up the numbers with some of these players.
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/s...05477118590979
This could be the reason that Man City's interest in Lewys Benjamin has cooled
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Re: The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
Darren Purse said signing Conte and Antwi, for instance, was supposed to bring some "experience" to the team, if that makes any sense. A little while ago a couple of teams (I think one of them was Brighton) actually brought in some proper experience - ie. a 30 something old pro winding down his career - to direct the younger players while playing for their U23s. Not sure if it caught on or was seen as beneficial in the end. It should be noted that Denham was signed after his release from Man U so it's not a complete waste of time as a policy but there's often a feeling of making up the numbers with some of these players.
Totally agree. We might have well played Sang and Whyte in the U21's all season. That would have provided the experience required.