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Socialist experiments...western civilisation....humanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I’d rather go down with dignity than be a someone who prospers from inequality.
It’d be interesting to know in which catastrophe-proof region of the planets your kids are going to live. SE Asia, Aus, Canada ?? My kids will be European.
In a democracy, is the will of the people 3 years ago more important than the will of the people now? 3 years ago I bought a packet of flour to make a loaf of bread. It's still in the cupboard, lots of small crawly things in there now that look like they might add some crunch to my loaf. Am I still required to abide by my decision of 3 years ago or am I allowed to change my mind and buy a new packet of flour?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Maybe you should get pest control around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I read a tweet the other day that boiled down to "the more leave is defined the more people disagree with it." It was a massive mistake to say the referendum would make the final decision having not defined leave at the time and not done any planning for what it would look like. Invoking Article 50 when so much was still undecided was also an error in hindsight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
The truly sad thing is that many, many people voted leave thinking their lives couldn't get worse and could only get better. Those people's struggles have been paused for nearly 3 years and it's possible we either end up with something that either makes their lives worse, at least in the short to medium run, or makes them feel ignored again.
It’s also worth noting that the government’s own lawyer said last week that if it had been a legally binding referendum it would have been declared void by the courts due to the level of illegality.
Absolutely mad that this is being made out to be democracy.
Now there's an idea. Could we get rid of JRM, Boris, Maybot, and anyone else willing a harmful no-deal on the country?Quote:
Originally Posted by William Treseder
I can’t get this to open but if it’s him asking that mp about changing his mind it’s so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Yep, here's a summary. Completely took any wind out of his sails. Our parliament is completely full of these shameless self interested charlatansQuote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
https://t.co/MH3EjNwfXjQuote:
Meet Conservative MP Ben Bradley: He voted Remain then became a Brexiteer then voted against the deal then voted for the deal then said he’d struggle to back the deal again then said he would back the deal. But you should not get another vote.
- He said he campaigned for remain but since leave won referendum has sought to leave at earliest possible opportunity. Apart from voting against May's deal that seems compatible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
- He gives 2 minutes speech about how a new referendum "quite possibly" would see the same people lie as they lied in the first referendum, but then says we should respect the result of the first referendum!
- He says his electorate was 71% leave but also that circumstances surrounding the deal have changed and that's why his position has flipped on voting for May's deal - I don't see that as compatible.
Attachment 2998Attachment 2999
Those are basically the options being put forward in parliament now.
I would go for M
Why weren’t those options put forward 2 years ago rather than waiting until the last week?
Well, that's it, the pissing around finally becomes official. First round of redundancies confirmed & all other staff to take a major pay cut in order to avoid even more redundancies. Delay until April 12th adds another £840k to the storage & interest charges.
Ridiculous when we are at the end of our most successful financial ever year. But what can you do when your order book drops nearly 60% and your major customer cancels all orders for a couple of months?
Exactly & why wasn't the Brexit steering team made up of representative bodies, as well as politicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
That's terrible, sorry to hear that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
Brexit means Brexit! No deal is better than a Bad deal! :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
That's terrible, sorry to hear thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
It’s mad isn’t it, crazy that the Tory party were always the “business party” too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
They’ve ignored most representative bodies because they all agree brexit is bad news.
Shame you can't offer any words of consolation to Des Parrot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Instead of trying to be funny (and failing badly may I add) why not read Des Parrot’s contribution to this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
You might pause for thought, for once...
The Tories and Labour have been more concerned about the health of their parties than the good of the country. That's shined through since the vote. Every single action has been to keep May in power and the right wing Tories will do everything to frustrate, delay or just lie through their teeth; while Labour have muddled through because Corbyn lives in a fantasy world where he can get his ideal Brexit through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
Now the hits are coming and I've lost all faith in politicians in this country. The majority of Tories are outright liars, as well as thick, while Corbyn and Labour just go from one gaffe to another.
Also, sorry to hear about your situation, Des. My mate works for a bank (I won't say who), and in the event of no deal/bad deal him and his entire team are leaving the country the day after.
Something like just over 50% of leave voters have said they think job losses and destruction to the economy are prices worth paying for Brexit. That's the level we're dealing with. Clueless cockwombles.Quote:
Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2
I can't quite agree with that. Whether you agree with Brexit or not we should never be in a position where 60 hours before original leave date Westminster is finally deciding what the UK's preferred option should be and therefore the 89 MPs who voted against Article 50, for whatever reason they gave at the time, are the ones to be commended as they did everything possible to avoid this scenario. Corbyn is the idiot who wanted Article 50 enacted the day after the referendum. Enact Article 50 this week after Westminster knows what it's doing and we are more likely to i) get a good new deal for the UK - whatever that might be ii) see if our future trade relations with the US will be with Trump or not and iii) see if the EU becomes this super-state some were worried about before. Suddenly the UK is in a position where they might not balls up Brexit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
You can see the 89 here: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...rticle-9412477
We haven't left yet, and we are not leaving (IMO). It's all a charade.Quote:
Originally Posted by CardiffIrish2
We may not have left yet, but people had to plan for if/when we do, they couldn't just keep the status quo and then deal with it when it happened. The uncertainty of not knowing what was going to happen has meant that businesses had to assume leaving going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
The whole process is an absolute shame on the government.
What about the people who voted to leave? Nobody is feeling sorry for them, they are just 17.4 million clueless cockwombles.Quote:
Originally Posted by rs3100
I think the majority of us then, and probably still now, were clueless about what the EU does in the UK and what the UK does in the EU. Again that's an error of the government and media for not providing that information, instead choosing to hide behind headlines blaming Europe for everything, so I don't think the 17.4 million should feel offended by being called clueless, just that the remain voters who sometimes say it themselves have forgotten how many of the 48% were also clueless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
That's perhaps why everyone should follow "That's Devolved" on twitter so we have a better idea about what is the UK and what is a Welsh (Scottish, Northern Irish) decision.
I have no disdain for the 17 million who voted to leave.
I only have disdain for those who promised them a brexit that was almost impossible to achieve at the time and due to the negotiation process is now completely impossible to achieve.
Whatever anyone says they didn’t vote for a weaker economy and massive job losses. And that’s what we’ve already got, even if we revoke a lot of the damage has already been done.
That’s got absolutely nothing to do with my comment which was all about the way Brexit has been handled not about those who voted for it. But those who voted for it knowing that it would screw the economy and put so many people out of work, deliberately inflicting misery on a large group of people, well I’m sorry but they’re scum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
The way it is being handled is not an accident, as there are no accidents in politics. Everything that happens is by design in order to achieve a specific outcome. You could also argue that project fear has been greater from the remain side. We've had 3 years of the sky falling in, and now everybody is panicked and fearful hoping that the EU can rescue them. The trick works everytime, but like I said I don't really care if we stay or leave. I just find the whole thing very amusing and the world isn't going to end whatever we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by rs3100
That’s the bloody point though, the Tories have wasted 3 years deliberating how to get Brexit without actually doing anything. It’s an absolute farce and how anyone would consider voting Conservative again in the next x years.Quote:
Originally Posted by surge
I know a lot of people who work in central government, and believe me, there are a lot of accidents. Some hilarious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Just like any other organisation you can name, public or private.
If your world view relies on the existence of a impeccably organised and efficient group of people , effortlessly pulling the strings then you might want to take a step back and rethink things
The way it’s going I think the country needs to abstain from votingQuote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
If I felt the need to take a step back and rethink things, then I wouldn't have been able to predict 3 years ago the exact scenario that is playing out now. Some things are more predictable than you think :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Thanks for proving my point :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
I’m glad you find it amusing that people will lose their jobs and their houses. For quite a few people this will be the end of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Do you know that for a fact or are you fearmongering?Quote:
Originally Posted by rs3100
In this very thread des parrot has stated that a number of people at his firm have lost their jobs directly because of Brexit so either you’re being an argumentative sod for the sake of it or are being disingenuous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I'm just asking because very similar predictions were made when America did their own version of Brexit, and things couldn't have turned out any better for them on the jobs and wages front.Quote:
Originally Posted by rs3100
Mark Twain once said “if voting changed anything, they wouldn’t let us do it!”Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieccfc