England’s first ever red warning for extreme heat on Monday and Tuesday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

In all fairness his attendance wouldn't have changed a thing. There are COBRA meetings all the time and they are normally chaired by the minister responsible for whatever the meeting is about. How you think the attendance of a PM that for the last 6 months everyone has been calling useless would have altered the situation I don't know. But I'd be happy for someone to tell me.

As a point of fact the great emphasis on COBRA as if it is something really really important was invented by the media.
COBRA actually stands for Cabinet Office Briefing Room A, as opposed to COBRB or COBRC. It's just another meeting room.
That is not to detract form the acceptance that meeting taking place there are very often very very important.

This is not a defence of BJ but as the Labour Party and the remoaners in his own party have inflicted the damage on him they have been attempting constantly for 2 years, couldn't we please move on and pick on someone else, Maybe Krankie or Starmer, anyone new really?

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Why are all climate change deniers also brexiters? Weird that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Why are all climate change deniers also brexiters? Weird that.

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I think in your drive for everything to be a binary opinion, with disney style right and wrongs and goodies and baddies you probably misplace many who are sceptical of some elements of it and lump them in with being a denier.

Nonetheless, you are wrong. Just a quick example:

Here's Jeremy Clarkson being a sceptic / mocking the heatwave in recent days
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-heatwave.html

Here he is backing the Remain campaign back in 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...campaign-video

The fact that many who so fanatically insist they follow the science and so willingly abuse anyone with even a moderately different opinion who then go onto make inaccurate generalisations probably only fuels peoples scepticism in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think in your drive for everything to be a binary opinion, with disney style right and wrongs and goodies and baddies you probably misplace many who are sceptical of some elements of it and lump them in with being a denier.

Nonetheless, you are wrong. Just a quick example:

Here's Jeremy Clarkson being a sceptic / mocking the heatwave in recent days
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-heatwave.html

Here he is backing the Remain campaign back in 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...campaign-video

The fact that many who so fanatically insist they follow the science and so willingly abuse anyone with even a moderately different opinion who then go onto make inaccurate generalisations probably only fuels peoples scepticism in the first place.

---

There are exceptions, for sure, but it is an interesting question, and one Ive thought about myself a fair bit.

Like why is someone who thinks that right wing economics are the best way to run a country also more likely to be socially right wing. There isn't an obvious link.

Then even within social issues there is a pretty large crossover between seemingly unrelated issues:

Brexit, Global Warming, trans rights, immigration etc.

I've read theories on this around acquisition of wealth. When a person becomes wealthier, their mindset changes to being defensive - not to lose what they have gained, and defending the society that they live in - that has allowed them to be successful from change. There have been social experiments that have showed that richer people can often act more selfishly - but it's not the selfishness that led them to become rich in the first place, it is a new trait that only appears after becoming richer.

Plenty don't fit into those generalisations I'm sure, but enough do for it to be a noticeable trend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Why are all climate change deniers also brexiters? Weird that.

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People polarise their views these days, I would say the climate change deniers tend to be more likely to be antivaxxer’s and anti-establishment. They read the same email links and follow conspiracy theories.

They usually love bitcoin and follow the preachings of great reset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Yes, he is.

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He's not. Hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

There are exceptions, for sure, but it is an interesting question, and one Ive thought about myself a fair bit.

Like why is someone who thinks that right wing economics are the best way to run a country also more likely to be socially right wing. There isn't an obvious link.

Then even within social issues there is a pretty large crossover between seemingly unrelated issues:

Brexit, Global Warming, trans rights, immigration etc.

I've read theories on this around acquisition of wealth. When a person becomes wealthier, their mindset changes to being defensive - not to lose what they have gained, and defending the society that they live in - that has allowed them to be successful from change. There have been social experiments that have showed that richer people can often act more selfishly - but it's not the selfishness that led them to become rich in the first place, it is a new trait that only appears after becoming richer.

Plenty don't fit into those generalisations I'm sure, but enough do for it to be a noticeable trend.

---

Although I was largely jesting above, there are of course patterns, but it's not really that helpful to make generalisations, less still crass ones as Doucus did - again, if for no other reason that it puts people off the point he is making, which on this occasion I largely agree with.

Liberalism is an interesting thing; Being a liberal on the economy it makes you more right wing. On social issues more left wing, and on matters of govt control, generally more sceptical. But then the most left-wing societies (communist) are always far less socially liberal than capitalist countries. And a lot of centre-left people are convinced the uber-capitalist single market is right. Across the spectrum many people are sceptical of governments, the media or science/big pharma telling us what to do, or (perhaps more accurately) being told we can't question their authority.

Like I said, there are patterns that emerge; brexit was an act of rebellion for many and that same rebellion can more easily be applied to questioning the media, government and science, but it's far from an easy pattern. Take for example the parody of a stereotypical Labour Remainer many of whom thinks the media always lies and the govt lies and that the NHS is gonna be privatised and the govt wants us all poor etc - there is no more evidence to accurately question that than there is to question wherther climate change exists or not.

I do think we all have to be more tolerant of different views and try to calmly and rationally explain why we do or don't agree with them and try to not make generalisations as people are complex and everyone see's things from their own unique position. It's not always easy, we all fail at it sometimes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

There are exceptions, for sure, but it is an interesting question, and one Ive thought about myself a fair bit.

Like why is someone who thinks that right wing economics are the best way to run a country also more likely to be socially right wing. There isn't an obvious link.

Then even within social issues there is a pretty large crossover between seemingly unrelated issues:

Brexit, Global Warming, trans rights, immigration etc.

I've read theories on this around acquisition of wealth. When a person becomes wealthier, their mindset changes to being defensive - not to lose what they have gained, and defending the society that they live in - that has allowed them to be successful from change. There have been social experiments that have showed that richer people can often act more selfishly - but it's not the selfishness that led them to become rich in the first place, it is a new trait that only appears after becoming richer.

Plenty don't fit into those generalisations I'm sure, but enough do for it to be a noticeable trend.

---

It works both ways, some people want tax them more, so they can get a greater share of their wealth.

James is right it's wrong to generarilse there are selfish people in all walks of life, and people generally vote for what benefits them or their families the most.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think in your drive for everything to be a binary opinion, with disney style right and wrongs and goodies and baddies you probably misplace many who are sceptical of some elements of it and lump them in with being a denier.

Nonetheless, you are wrong. Just a quick example:

Here's Jeremy Clarkson being a sceptic / mocking the heatwave in recent days
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-heatwave.html

Here he is backing the Remain campaign back in 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...campaign-video

The fact that many who so fanatically insist they follow the science and so willingly abuse anyone with even a moderately different opinion who then go onto make inaccurate generalisations probably only fuels peoples scepticism in the first place.

---

Jeremy clarkson tweeted that climate change was real 2 days ago. He isn’t at all sceptical about it, he was just having a laugh at the over reaction of people on Twitter to the weather.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1549015974556336128?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Quote:

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I’ve spent my life working in extreme heat and we survived by having a beer under a tree. Climate change is real. Drink more beer.

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People who are climate change deniers and brexit voters are a pretty big cross section on a Venn diagram in fairness. Not mocking them but it’s just based on where they get their news.

Same reason those who voted remain are more likely to believe in climate change.

Different media outlets will report the facts that suit them and their readership.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rudy gestede

People who are climate change deniers and brexit voters are a pretty big cross section on a Venn diagram in fairness. Not mocking them but it’s just based on where they get their news.

Same reason those who voted remain are more likely to believe in climate change.

Different media outlets will report the facts that suit them and their readership.

---

Big part you're missing there is one side listens to science and can see through the lies of our billionaire owned media, the other does not/cannot. The side who listens to science are more educated as well.

Weird correlation that.

Yeah some forms of media are definitely more honest in how they present things. And some definitely have agendas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rudy gestede

People who are climate change deniers and brexit voters are a pretty big cross section on a Venn diagram in fairness. Not mocking them but it’s just based on where they get their news.

Same reason those who voted remain are more likely to believe in climate change.

Different media outlets will report the facts that suit them and their readership.

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That’s nonsense there is no correlation between Brexit and climate change, but there is between, bitcoin loving, antivax, Covid didn't exist, climate change is just for governments to tell us what to do, the great reset, and it's to do with where they get their news, and they aren't intelligent just anti-establishment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

That’s nonsense there is no correlation between Brexit and climate change, but there is between, bitcoin loving, antivax, Covid didn't exist, climate change is just for governments to tell us what to do, the great reset, and it's to do with where they get their news, and they aren't intelligent just anti-establishment.

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Quite a few prominent brexiteers have been climate change sceptics

Quote:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

That’s nonsense there is no correlation between Brexit and climate change, but there is between, bitcoin loving, antivax, Covid didn't exist, climate change is just for governments to tell us what to do, the great reset, and it's to do with where they get their news, and they aren't intelligent just anti-establishment.

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In this thread it seems a good correlation in fairness.

https://towardsdatascience.com/clima...t-8247a243d815

there appears to be a significant correlation

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

https://towardsdatascience.com/clima...t-8247a243d815

there appears to be a significant correlation

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2019?

Who's that idiot, a load of mumbo jumbo of made up nonsense :facepalm:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

2019?

Who's that idiot, a load of mumbo jumbo of made up nonsense :facepalm:

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I don’t think anyone is saying everyone who voted for brexit is a denier but it’s clear there’s a decent cross over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baloo

The point was really the video of the fire not the COBRA meeting as I think should be pretty clear by how I introduced the post. Let’s not deflect, I’ve heard all the tried-and-tested explanations for Johnson skipping COBRA meetings before.

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Yeah so have I. But people really need a new target now. I wasn't deflecting just commenting. Or isn't that allowed any more? :hehe:

Yes, it's daft to suggest there is no link - inevitably patterns emerge when you split the country down the middle. Leave voters were more or less likely to be a great many things. Leaving aside the whole 'correlation and causation' thing, it's probably fair to say climate sceptics were more likely to vote Brexit. That's a reasonable thing to say. Insinuating all climate deniers voted Leave, or all Leave voters are climate deniers is of course not reasonable, and nor is it anywhere near correct. 25% of Green voters at the 2015 GE voted leave, so that's nearly 300,000 green brexit voters right there alone.

It's also worth looking into why. "The environment" generally is perceived, rightly or wrongly, as more of an issue for wealthier people, and wealthier people were far more likely to vote Remain than leave. Likewise, poorer people perhaps have more immediate concerns than the environment, and they were far more likely to vote leave so we are probably looking at an income thing more than anything.

What is more interesting is what leaving the EU can do for the environment. There's huge opportunities in that respect irrespective of how anyone voted 6 years ago.

Some interesting stuff below:

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/0...voted-and-why/
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/h...-and-who-didnt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Yeah so have I. But people really need a new target now. I wasn't deflecting just commenting. Or isn't that allowed any more? :hehe:

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To be fair 'Parody Boris' is likely to be a bit of a one-trick pony. From my point of view the sooner Johnson is removed from any important decision-making meetings the better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rudy gestede

I don’t think anyone is saying everyone who voted for brexit is a denier but it’s clear there’s a decent cross over.

---

This is what Sludge thinks about when he reads the word 'denier':
Attachment 5023

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baloo

To be fair 'Parody Boris' is likely to be a bit of a one-trick pony. From my point of view the sooner Johnson is removed from any important decision-making meetings the better.

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I don't think the words "Boris Johnson" and "decision making" make any sense in the same sentence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Yeah so have I. But people really need a new target now. I wasn't deflecting just commenting. Or isn't that allowed any more? :hehe:

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By the way, in light of that video and others, are you still of the mind that the government providing a warning about potential disruption to travel, damage to property and impact on health was a load of bollocks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

2019?

Who's that idiot, a load of mumbo jumbo of made up nonsense :facepalm:

---

righto :hehe:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rjk

righto :hehe:

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You know it's nonsense, some loon from his bedroom look at his other few posts all made up crap

From the other board, this will be the non-covid believers, anti vax, bitcoin loving, internet great reset followers view for the next few years now that Brexit and Covid is finished, it's the new argument to rant on about.
Dessy1927

I'd say he's on to something. Radio 1 propaganda being pushed this morning. Extreme weather expected every 3 years, time to act blah blah blah. Such a bad crisis the G7 summit keeps having meetings, flying in on their private jets with a diabolical carbon footprint.

Classic case of do as I say not as I do. It's just another form of taxation creeping in that will slowly force us off the roads whilst the rich jet around tax free.

The rhetoric is already ramping up.
20mph zones
Mega fuel inflation ( which started before Ukraine as I put my rates up in Jan to counter the rising costs )
Phasing out petrol and diesel motors by 2030
The electric car push ( look at the carbon footprint creating them )

Yet again they are coming after the working man whilst the elite can do as they please.
Alot of modern issues regarding carbon are to do with unhealthy soil that usually retains the carbon but is being dried out through toxic modern fertiliser treatments but instead of going after the corporations yet again it s over to us with more taxation.

He might be off tangent with lasers etc but he's definitely onto something. The propaganda between now and 2030 will only get worse. As will the way they enforce it on the working man.
Dessy1927

Quote:

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

From the other board, this will be the non-covid believers, anti vax, bitcoin loving, internet great reset followers view for the next few years now that Brexit and Covid is finished, it's the new argument to rant on about.
Dessy1927

I'd say he's on to something. Radio 1 propaganda being pushed this morning. Extreme weather expected every 3 years, time to act blah blah blah. Such a bad crisis the G7 summit keeps having meetings, flying in on their private jets with a diabolical carbon footprint.

Classic case of do as I say not as I do. It's just another form of taxation creeping in that will slowly force us off the roads whilst the rich jet around tax free.

The rhetoric is already ramping up.
20mph zones
Mega fuel inflation ( which started before Ukraine as I put my rates up in Jan to counter the rising costs )
Phasing out petrol and diesel motors by 2030
The electric car push ( look at the carbon footprint creating them )

Yet again they are coming after the working man whilst the elite can do as they please.
Alot of modern issues regarding carbon are to do with unhealthy soil that usually retains the carbon but is being dried out through toxic modern fertiliser treatments but instead of going after the corporations yet again it s over to us with more taxation.

He might be off tangent with lasers etc but he's definitely onto something. The propaganda between now and 2030 will only get worse. As will the way they enforce it on the working man.
Dessy1927

---

FFS I'm so tired of the right doing this, you make up things you think the left are for and then argue against that instead of our actual arguements. JamesWales is notorious for doing this.

Nobody on the left wants to tax the working man more, they/we want to go after the billionaire class who are milking us for every single penny while destroying the planet. Warning of climate catastrophe is not 'PrOpOgAnDa' it's scientific fact. If you're backing up David Cotterill there are no words.

I've said a few times now but older generations are seemingly hell bent on making things worse for the generations after them, you will be remembered as the most selfish ignorant generation in history and I can't wait until your voting block whithers so we can actually improve society.

People who believed in witches/flat earth etc in the past at least had the excuse that they don't have access to scientific information, what's your excuse?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

FFS I'm so tired of the right doing this, you make up things you think the left are for and then argue against that instead of our actual arguements. JamesWales is notorious for doing this.

Nobody on the left wants to tax the working man more, they/we want to go after the billionaire class who are milking us for every single penny while destroying the planet. Warning of climate catastrophe is not 'PrOpOgAnDa' it's scientific fact. If you're backing up David Cotterill there are no words.

I've said a few times now but older generations are seemingly hell bent on making things worse for the generations after them, you will be remembered as the most selfish ignorant generation in history and I can't wait until your voting block whithers so we can actually improve society.

People who believed in witches/flat earth etc in the past at least had the excuse that they don't have access to scientific information, what's your excuse?

---

No I don't, in fact I would argue the opposite. I criticise it when you say inflammatory or generalised or insulting things or when I think something is just not correct.

I actually think I'm pretty good at avoiding strawman arguments personally, and my mum told me so too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Big part you're missing there is one side listens to science and can see through the lies of our billionaire owned media, the other does not/cannot. The side who listens to science are more educated as well.

Weird correlation that.

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"Listens to science" lol you're flattered by authority figures who imply that adherence to their current view is enlightened. The "science" industry has been subverted by big money and cancel culture.

Which billionaires own the BBC? (the biggest, most influential media outlet in Britain)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

FFS I'm so tired of the right doing this, you make up things you think the left are for and then argue against that instead of our actual arguements. JamesWales is notorious for doing this.

Nobody on the left wants to tax the working man more, they/we want to go after the billionaire class who are milking us for every single penny while destroying the planet. Warning of climate catastrophe is not 'PrOpOgAnDa' it's scientific fact. If you're backing up David Cotterill there are no words.

I've said a few times now but older generations are seemingly hell bent on making things worse for the generations after them, you will be remembered as the most selfish ignorant generation in history and I can't wait until your voting block whithers so we can actually improve society.

People who believed in witches/flat earth etc in the past at least had the excuse that they don't have access to scientific information, what's your excuse?

---

Have you gone mad in the heat????

Where have I said anything about the left???

Read it again and wake up!

PS I think it's nonsense and David Cotterill is talking bolux, it's someone elses view?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

"Listens to science" lol you're flattered by authority figures who imply that adherence to their current view is enlightened. The "science" industry has been subverted by big money and cancel culture.

Which billionaires own the BBC? (the biggest, most influential media outlet in Britain)

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Go on, which billionaires own the BBC?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

"Listens to science" lol you're flattered by authority figures who imply that adherence to their current view is enlightened. The "science" industry has been subverted by big money and cancel culture.

Which billionaires own the BBC? (the biggest, most influential media outlet in Britain)

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What do you mean the science industry?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lardy

Go on, which billionaires own the BBC?

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I think you missed the point AGAIN. Lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rudy gestede

What do you mean the science industry?

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Stop asking silly questions hatchling

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

Stop asking silly questions hatchling

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I’m not, what on Earth is the science industry?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

"Listens to science" lol you're flattered by authority figures who imply that adherence to their current view is enlightened. The "science" industry has been subverted by big money and cancel culture.

Which billionaires own the BBC? (the biggest, most influential media outlet in Britain)

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What in all that is holy is the science industry :hehe: are you referring to science, ie the study and proving of things through experiments and research? Which is how facts are established?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colin'sReversibleHat

What in all that is holy is the science industry :hehe: are you referring to science, ie the study and proving of things through experiments and research? Which is how facts are established?

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It's all explained in my original post. I'll put it nice and clear for you. Unfortately "Science" has been subverted by money and special interests. All too often these days the truth belongs to those funding the study.

Mate you didn’t even understand what a peer reviewed paper was and how this protects against that.

I’d be interested how cancel culture has affected the “science industry” :hehe:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colin'sReversibleHat

What in all that is holy is the science industry :hehe: are you referring to science, ie the study and proving of things through experiments and research? Which is how facts are established?

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Also, scientific "facts" change regularly, in the 1970s scientists were saying that a few decades of global COOLING was caused by man made climate change. What about the morning sickness pill for pregnant women caused deformed babies. Just two examples. SCIeNcE yOU sEe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lither_1927

Also, scientific "facts" change regularly, in the 1970s scientists were saying that a few decades of global COOLING was caused by man made climate change. What about the morning sickness pill for pregnant women caused deformed babies. Just two examples. SCIeNcE yOU sEe

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****ing hell :hehe: